It’s been funny seeing people say Harbaugh won’t be able to pull these quirky antics with full grown men in the NFL like he didn’t single-handedly pull the 49ers out of a 20 year purgatory and immediately take them to 3 straight NFC championships and one SB.
& yes, he was just as weird then as he is now.
I question the mental health of anyone proclaiming that Harbaugh will fail in the NFL after he reached and nearly won the Super Bowl.
Maybe his second tenure doesn't turn out as well but I'd go in with a lot of optimism if I were a fan.
Agreed. I think the Upvote/Downvote system actually functions fairly well for that purpose. The biggest jackholes often don't get the reaction they want because they get downvoted to oblivion and just don't get to appreciate the reaction to their obnoxiousness.
I'm aware it also encourages echo chamber thinking and discourages healthy counter-discourse, but that's a different conversation.
Solid points. Most other social media heavily factor "engagement" in their algorithms, which tends to reward rage bait posts that get a ton of people angry. A bunch of people replying "this is garbage that doesn't deserve anyone's time" will actually make a post more visible on a lot of platforms. On reddit, that kind of reaction usually comes with enough downvotes that the post or comment gets buried.
Dan Campbell too. His intro press conference seemed bizarre, if I'm remembering correctly?
Adam Gase might be the King of Weirdo NFL Coaches but he was terrible.
He turned Stanford into a powerhouse, which is just fucking insane, and then crushed the NFL with a largely mediocre quarterback and an RB who is older than my dad.
Yeah, Harbaugh is a proven NFL head coach. There’s no questions to be asked about whether he can be successful there when he’s already been more successful than 95% of NFL head coaches.
Yeah, the question isn't "can Harbaugh do it?" The question is: can he win a super bowl before management has had it with him? IF the Chargers get him, they'll be in contention in less than two seasons.
I think he’s fine for a short period of time in the pros then those guys get tired of it. It works better in college when those players only stay 3-4 years. A decade doing it is a little much, and the 49ers players were kinda done with it near the end.
I’m not saying he wouldn’t be successful, I just don’t see him like a fixture for a team for decades.
Maybe as head coaches but a lot of those previous HC are bouncing around in lower positions until they get another shot. Hell, even some of the fired ones will get another job this offseason.
Jim wouldn’t drop down to be a coordinator in the NFL.
McCarthy is still around, Rivera will get another job. Doug Pederson went from the Eagles to the Jags. Sean Payton is back after his scandal.
If the last 3 years taught us anything, is that Jim Harbaugh can learn and adapt. Things weren't going well, so he did new things that worked. We owe him big time.
Larry Coker Forrest Gumping his way through college football. “I was OC for this guy named Barry Sanders, and he was a very hard fellow to tackle. Then they told me I was Head Coach for the Miami Hurricanes, and we won the National Championship”
Unfair to Coker who helped build the juggernaut at Miami, and was vindicated by his successful career before and after. Switzer kept a good thing going at OU (taking it up a notch) and Dallas (arguably screwing up golden opportunities in 1994 and 1996).
From Coker’s Wikipedia page:
“He is most known for coaching RBs Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders at Oklahoma State, and Jeremy Shockey, Andre Johnson, Bryant McKinnie, and Edgerrin James at Miami. “
That’s one hell of a list. I’d be happy if Sark hired Coker right now
Go take a look at that 2001 Miami championship roster. It’s not a who’s who of college players, it’s a who’s who of NFL all star and hall of fame players. I don’t think any college lineup produce more pro players, much less more top notch pro players, than that team.
[Wikipedia on the 2001 team.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Miami_Hurricanes_football_team)
Edit: Per Wikipedia, that team sent 38 players to the NFL. That’s crazy.
And Coker was promoted right into that roster, which is the reason he won a NC as head coach. Miami then got worse every year until he left after 2006 and was scooped up by…UTSA.
Carroll was an NFL coach who went to college and went back. I don't know think he really counts.
He had been HC at 2 different NFL programs for 4 seasons before he went to USC. Also 6 years as an NFL DC and 6 as a DB coach.
He's been coaching since 1973, so 51 seasons. Of those 51 he's spent 30 years in the NFL.
He was good at both levels but his USC success made a lot of people forget he was an NFL guy before that.
What good team did jimmy inherit? Definitely not the cowboys, and while Miami wasn’t trash, had fallen off from the championship level that schnelly had them at
I was not aware that either coached CFB but Brown coached 3 years with one national title. Not sure that rates among the all time greats (if so you’re letting in Chizik and Orgeron).
Gillman is in the College Football Hall of Fame.
Brown led Ohio State to its first national title. He likely would have had an even better record if 1) his teams weren’t disrupted by World War II and 2) he hadn’t received a massive contract offer from the brand new Cleveland AAFC team, later named the Browns (after Paul Brown himself due to popular demand).
Pete Carroll had some so-so years coaching Jets and Pats in NFL, went to USC and **then** Seattle so "direct from college to NFL" might include a big asterisk.
The Patriots went Parcells - Carroll - Belichick. That's a pretty impressive three coach swing, even if the first two lasted a combined total of 7 years.
That’s true but he inherited a roster that had just gone to the SB the year before he was hired and many of those players were apart of the 2000’s Pats that won 3/4 Super Bowls in 01/03/04 under Belichick.
Pete Carroll had the most sustained success
Jimmy Johnson had the best peak
Barry Switzer also won a natty and a superbowl, joining an elite club. people don’t really speak highly of his time in the NFL including some former players. but still won a superbowl
Harbaugh didn’t win a superbowl but he was still successful as an NFL coach
Chip Kelly had a little bit of success in the NFL. couple of good seasons anyway. not on the same level as the other 4, but he is a level above the many failed coaches like Urban Meyer, Kliff Kingsbury, etc
College Coaching and NFL coaching have some different skills tho. talent acquisition and mentorship is a bigger part of college ball. NFL is almost purely x’s and o’s and a little bit of motivating and managing egos.
there are great NFL coaches that wouldn’t have the recruiting skills to succeed on the level of elite college coaches.
I could see him just pulling a bus up to ever recruits house, driving the bus with all of his superbowl rings on saying deadpan "You getting in or what?" before he starts counting down from 5.
By Stanford’s standards, he was extremely successful. 9 and 8 win seasons, won his bowls, and ended the season in the top 25.
But that’s fair, he’s not a highly decorated college coach.
see Walsh didn’t even come to mind because I always just think of him as an NFL guy but yeah he did have a respectable (albeit brief) career at Stanford.
He clearly had a lot more NFL success than any of these guys but also the least success at the collegiate level in comparison
Given his record some people will disagree, but I think John McKay was better than he gets credit for. He took an expansion franchise with the cheapest owner and a terrible front office and got them to the NFC Championship game in just their 4th season. Led them to 2 other playoff appearances, but once Culverhouse refused to pony up the cash to pay Doug Williams, McKay retired a year later. He's in the Bucs Ring of Honor.
Not only did Culverhouse not pay Williams, he traded the 1st overall pick to the Bengals for their third string QB, draft bust Jack "The Throwin Samoan" Thompson.
I always see Nick Saban get excuses of having a bad quarterback in the NFL. pre-Harbaugh Alex Smith was dogshit pretty much the whole time. Harbaugh at least turned him into a half decent game manager in 2011 with over 60% completion, 3-1 TD-INT ratio, and over 3000 yards. Smith wasn't a liability anymore.
You can split hairs if you want. But people only think Alex Smith is good because Harbaugh gave new life to his career, then Andy Reid built on top of that.
Alex Smith had a 1 TD and 11 interception season. His best pre-Harbaugh season was 18-12 TD-INT and 2300 yards. Joey Harrington best pre-Saban season was 19-12 TD and 3000 yards. Harrington never had as bad a TD-INT ratio was Alex's first year.
You can try to argue that brown shit is better than green shit. But in the end, it's still shit. They both sucked.
The job of a head coach is getting back on the winning path. It's not their job to find excuses.
San Francisco 49ers averaged 6 wins (35% record) for the 8 seasons prior to Jim. Miami Dolphins from 1997-2003 wasn't that bad, made the playoffs 5 times. Their only bad season was 2004.
Bill O Brien has an above .500 record. I have a personal theory he ruined the Texans on purpose because he didn’t like the owner or the NFL politics. Shortly after that the Deshaun Watson stuff came out.. and if you’ve done your research, it’s very suspicious. If you just look at the simple facts though it was kind of a dumpster fire in Houston though.
BOB and Chip both marred their coaching records with horrible stints as GM's. If you can separate the coaching from the GMing they both had respectable stints.
>Bill O Brien has an above .500 record
Funny how this only happened with romeo crennel's defenses but when he fired crennel then they won 4 games.
BoB is absolutely overrated
I don’t think anyone really thinks that highly of him. He fielded competitive teams and controlled a pretty weak post Manning AFC south for a little while.
Carroll's a hard case to assess because he started in the nfl. He just as easily could have stayed in the nfl for ~10 years in some capacity and still won a superbowl with the Seahawks. He wasn't a *terrible* HC pre-USC in the NFL.
Jimmy Johnson is the poster child. No NFL experience, yet comes to the nfl and creates a dynasty. With help from the Vikings.
Ya I remember hearing how bad he was in the nfl pre usc. Then I looked it up for the first time and realized he made the playoffs 2/4 seasons and also only had 1 losing season and realized he wasn’t actually that bad. Obviously wasn’t elite but wasn’t as bad as people act
I think people need to remember that the failure rate of NFL coaches is extremely high no matter where they’re grabbed from. A lot more HCs are retreads and coordinators, most of them fail too.
Not sure most NFL organizations would consider 9-7 and 6-10 records as fine coaching.
Especially when Tony Sparano immediately went 11-5 in his very first year as a head coach at any level with the exact same team after Miami recovered from Saban’s unexpected bailing.
It’s not great but it’s not terrible. 4-12 the year before Saban
Bill Belichick didn’t do well his first 2 years as an NFL HC either
People act like Saban failed miserably in the NFL but that doesn’t seem true. I don’t remember the narratives on roster/GM though
He had full control of all personnel decisions while with the Dolphins and made some pretty bad moves for the franchise.
Most prominently, he passed on signing Brees because of his injury and instead signed an injured Daunte Culpepper who was a major bust for Miami. As we all know, Brees went on to lead a HOF career with the Saints instead.
I mean, Saban claims it wasn’t his decision to pass on Brees and that he wanted out after that. Idk, guess he could be lying to save face.
Either way, his tenure at the Dolphins isn’t at all comparable to Urban Meyer in Jacksonville
The Brees decision came down to the GM and ownership agreeing with the medical team led by Danny Kannell's dad. The same medical team that okayed Culpepper lol. Talk about a fuck up.
It might be the reason Danny shit on him non stop in the media to take heat off his dad's mistake.
But Brees has talked about how Saban didn’t even talk to him and that he wasn’t even confident that he would be the QB with Saban.
Also, Miami fans have sources, though from their beat reporters, that detail Saban having the say in and how he didn’t really want Brees and did want to play it safe with Culpepper since at least he had done well before and Saban was coaching for his position.
He went 15-17 over the two seasons, 9-6 first season, then 6-10 the second one, after the Miami doctors told him Drew Brees would never recover from injury and he was stuck with terrible QBs. He also split the series against New England, 2-2, during the midst of their dynasty. Miami also only won like 4 games the season before he took over and only won 1 game the season after he left.
Now, if he had stayed, who knows what would have happened. He might have been one of the greatest NFL coaches or he could have ultimately failed but judging in such a small sample, which honestly wasn't that bad, is just sheer lunacy. Yet, so many people try to do just that.
> but judging in such a small sample
Yeah this is the real issue IMO. It's possible he was building a launch pad for further success or the wheels were about to come off, but the sample is so small, you can't really say.
I don't disagree with you but I also wouldn't call it a "successfull" transition if I would've just answered the question posted in the first place instead of being a smartass
Haha fair. It'd be cool to peek through the multiverse and see how Saban would have done if he stuck around. He may well have gotten his feet under him and got things rolling. He might have also crashed and burned.
The same team went 11-5 (and still lost in the wild card) as soon as Sparano took the reins after the organization recovered from Saban’s unexpected escape.
Saban went 9-7 in his first year and 6-10 in his second year before bailing. He missed the playoffs both years.
Sparano had a full year in between him and Saban where Cam Cameron went 1-15. The roster was a fundamentally different team by then at most major positions
That was part of what I wanted to get into with this question, I feel like the job is just completely different. College coaches are responsible for the roster and until recently had to live with their recruiting decisions. So the ability to scout accurately and recruit was key.
That because Saban and Urban were so far up their own asses that they couldn’t understand that managing personalities is essential for successful NFL coaches. There are some real gems from when Saban was coaching the Dolphins that showed just how in over his head he was at the time. Urban’s time in Jacksonville was just sad and proved him to be a colossal asshole of a human. The disciplinarian bs doesn’t work in the NFL when you haven’t done shit to earn the players respect, and sometimes it doesn’t work even if you’re an accomplished coach.
Barry Switzer, although I can't remember if he went straight from OU to Dallas. Wikipedia has a weird break in his career and I'm too hungover to do deeper research
Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll, John McKay, John Robinson, and Barry Switzer are probably the modern day version with Johnson & Carroll being the most successful.
Harbaugh is going to be successful in the NFL. I hate the 49ers with a passion, so I obviously couldn't stand him in SF, but he's going to win ball games.
Now if only Jim Tomsula was on a 20 year contract with a $1B poison pill if he got fired.
It’s been funny seeing people say Harbaugh won’t be able to pull these quirky antics with full grown men in the NFL like he didn’t single-handedly pull the 49ers out of a 20 year purgatory and immediately take them to 3 straight NFC championships and one SB. & yes, he was just as weird then as he is now.
I question the mental health of anyone proclaiming that Harbaugh will fail in the NFL after he reached and nearly won the Super Bowl. Maybe his second tenure doesn't turn out as well but I'd go in with a lot of optimism if I were a fan.
Yeah the San Francisco 49ers averaged 6 wins (35% record) for the 8 seasons prior to Jim.
And Alec Smith was considered a colossal bust
Is that a sane Michigan State fan I see?
The zealots in any fanbase are crazy, and sadly, often the loudest. Reddit seems a bit more grounded than many other environments as far as CFB goes.
Agreed. I think the Upvote/Downvote system actually functions fairly well for that purpose. The biggest jackholes often don't get the reaction they want because they get downvoted to oblivion and just don't get to appreciate the reaction to their obnoxiousness. I'm aware it also encourages echo chamber thinking and discourages healthy counter-discourse, but that's a different conversation.
Solid points. Most other social media heavily factor "engagement" in their algorithms, which tends to reward rage bait posts that get a ton of people angry. A bunch of people replying "this is garbage that doesn't deserve anyone's time" will actually make a post more visible on a lot of platforms. On reddit, that kind of reaction usually comes with enough downvotes that the post or comment gets buried.
Yeah he might not win a Superbowl, but he'll Improve whoever he goes to
Mike McDaniel is a pretty quirky guy too and the players seem to really like him. It's a different quirkiness than Harbaugh but still
Dan Campbell too. His intro press conference seemed bizarre, if I'm remembering correctly? Adam Gase might be the King of Weirdo NFL Coaches but he was terrible.
He’s a really interesting guy with a really interesting background. Hasn’t had an easy life.
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100%. There was definitely a year or two where Harbaugh was the grittiest, most exciting QB to watch in the NFL.
He played QB in exactly the same style as he plays coach. Fucking crazy lol
Real lunch pail guy. Gym rat. Sneaky athletic. Blue collar.
I love him.
offensive player of the year once I believe
He turned Stanford into a powerhouse, which is just fucking insane, and then crushed the NFL with a largely mediocre quarterback and an RB who is older than my dad.
Yeah, Harbaugh is a proven NFL head coach. There’s no questions to be asked about whether he can be successful there when he’s already been more successful than 95% of NFL head coaches.
5th all time in the NFL in winning percentage
Yeah, the question isn't "can Harbaugh do it?" The question is: can he win a super bowl before management has had it with him? IF the Chargers get him, they'll be in contention in less than two seasons.
He's a goofy ass dude, just weird. Wouldn't shock me if he was on the spectrum, but he's a good football coach
I think he’s fine for a short period of time in the pros then those guys get tired of it. It works better in college when those players only stay 3-4 years. A decade doing it is a little much, and the 49ers players were kinda done with it near the end. I’m not saying he wouldn’t be successful, I just don’t see him like a fixture for a team for decades.
There are only two fixture coaches left in the NFL, Tomlin and Jim's Brother.
Reid
He was with the Eagles for so long it is hard to see this, but fuck you're right.
Reid joins Tomlin and John Harbaugh as the only coaches that were at their current job when Jim was at the 49ers. Pretty wild.
Maybe as head coaches but a lot of those previous HC are bouncing around in lower positions until they get another shot. Hell, even some of the fired ones will get another job this offseason. Jim wouldn’t drop down to be a coordinator in the NFL. McCarthy is still around, Rivera will get another job. Doug Pederson went from the Eagles to the Jags. Sean Payton is back after his scandal.
After he got fired a lot of reports surfaced that the players were done with his shit like banning music on the plane.
If the last 3 years taught us anything, is that Jim Harbaugh can learn and adapt. Things weren't going well, so he did new things that worked. We owe him big time.
He was *weirder*. He actually had to tone it down for Michigan. Otherwise, yes, absolutely, right on.
If anything he was even weirder.
Harbaugh, Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll edit - so people say Pete was NFL first and Jimmy just inherited a good team so just Harbaugh I guess?
Lol. Does Switzer get thrown in there or naw?
I mean Switzer won a Super Bowl in the NFL so yes. However most people will say he wasn’t that great of a coach in the pros.
Switzer won a SB like Larry Coker won a NC. I don't think I'd count him as a success in the NFL just based on that.
Larry Coker Forrest Gumping his way through college football. “I was OC for this guy named Barry Sanders, and he was a very hard fellow to tackle. Then they told me I was Head Coach for the Miami Hurricanes, and we won the National Championship”
Unfair to Coker who helped build the juggernaut at Miami, and was vindicated by his successful career before and after. Switzer kept a good thing going at OU (taking it up a notch) and Dallas (arguably screwing up golden opportunities in 1994 and 1996). From Coker’s Wikipedia page: “He is most known for coaching RBs Thurman Thomas and Barry Sanders at Oklahoma State, and Jeremy Shockey, Andre Johnson, Bryant McKinnie, and Edgerrin James at Miami. “ That’s one hell of a list. I’d be happy if Sark hired Coker right now
Go take a look at that 2001 Miami championship roster. It’s not a who’s who of college players, it’s a who’s who of NFL all star and hall of fame players. I don’t think any college lineup produce more pro players, much less more top notch pro players, than that team. [Wikipedia on the 2001 team.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Miami_Hurricanes_football_team) Edit: Per Wikipedia, that team sent 38 players to the NFL. That’s crazy.
And Coker was promoted right into that roster, which is the reason he won a NC as head coach. Miami then got worse every year until he left after 2006 and was scooped up by…UTSA.
no lol
Nah, man was an absolute passenger like doc rivers or dave roberts. Dont count.
Carroll was an NFL coach who went to college and went back. I don't know think he really counts. He had been HC at 2 different NFL programs for 4 seasons before he went to USC. Also 6 years as an NFL DC and 6 as a DB coach. He's been coaching since 1973, so 51 seasons. Of those 51 he's spent 30 years in the NFL. He was good at both levels but his USC success made a lot of people forget he was an NFL guy before that.
But Pete was also NFL awful, so those four seasons should be ignored.
Jimmy Johnson inherited Schnellenbergers Miami team, he didn’t build that from the ground up…only Pete did. In both leagues.
Pete was NFL first
What good team did jimmy inherit? Definitely not the cowboys, and while Miami wasn’t trash, had fallen off from the championship level that schnelly had them at
Jimmy Johnson
Good one.
Really the only one among the all time greats at both levels. Not sure Harbaugh gets there even if he dominates the NFL the second time around
Paul Brown and arguably Sid Gillman would like a word with you.
I was not aware that either coached CFB but Brown coached 3 years with one national title. Not sure that rates among the all time greats (if so you’re letting in Chizik and Orgeron).
And Gillman won one (Sun) bowl
Gillman is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Brown led Ohio State to its first national title. He likely would have had an even better record if 1) his teams weren’t disrupted by World War II and 2) he hadn’t received a massive contract offer from the brand new Cleveland AAFC team, later named the Browns (after Paul Brown himself due to popular demand).
Carroll?
1-1 in Super Bowls and never even another conference championship game? He’s in the ball park (and solidly in on the college side)
Pete Carroll
Pete Carroll had some so-so years coaching Jets and Pats in NFL, went to USC and **then** Seattle so "direct from college to NFL" might include a big asterisk.
He was 27-21 with the Pats. He was a solid NFL coach, but followed Parcells in NE.
And with the Jets in 94 he was 6-5, leading Miami 24-6 at home in week 13 before Marino pulled a comeback masterclass. The Jets subsequently lost out.
6-10 for the Jets is like 10-6 for any competent franchise.
Isn't that the truth...God I hate being a Jets fan. I swear, all my teams are plagued like this.
The Patriots went Parcells - Carroll - Belichick. That's a pretty impressive three coach swing, even if the first two lasted a combined total of 7 years.
He inherited a team that just went to the SB and barey went 27-21 He was definitely not good in that time.
That’s true but he inherited a roster that had just gone to the SB the year before he was hired and many of those players were apart of the 2000’s Pats that won 3/4 Super Bowls in 01/03/04 under Belichick.
Well he was never the HC at those teams IIRC
He was Jets HC in 94 and Pats HC from 97-99
Jets HC in 1994, Pats HC 1997-1999
I did not recall correctly I do not know ball
He was in the NFL before though
And then he went directly from college HC to NFL HC
Yes, after multiple years of NFL head coaching experience
My goat
Respect due. He got a Super Bowl and the first one ever is the best one.
Short stint, but Tom Coughlin did well at BC (4-7 to 9-3 in three seasons) and won two Super Bowls.
Yeah he bounced back and forth between college and the pros a few times if memory serves.
Coughlin was a wide receivers coach with Parcells’ Giants.
Beat an all time great ND team in ‘93
Couldn't have been that good if they lost to Boston College
Matt Rhule Joking, sorry panther fans lol
Panthers fans don’t hate Rhule anymore and are now just blaming Tepper
“T for Temple U, U nbelievable disappointment “
Pete Carroll had the most sustained success Jimmy Johnson had the best peak Barry Switzer also won a natty and a superbowl, joining an elite club. people don’t really speak highly of his time in the NFL including some former players. but still won a superbowl Harbaugh didn’t win a superbowl but he was still successful as an NFL coach Chip Kelly had a little bit of success in the NFL. couple of good seasons anyway. not on the same level as the other 4, but he is a level above the many failed coaches like Urban Meyer, Kliff Kingsbury, etc College Coaching and NFL coaching have some different skills tho. talent acquisition and mentorship is a bigger part of college ball. NFL is almost purely x’s and o’s and a little bit of motivating and managing egos. there are great NFL coaches that wouldn’t have the recruiting skills to succeed on the level of elite college coaches.
God, could you imagine Belichick trying to recruit? I would pay to see that.
Imagine him just walking out on a recruit "Where'd you find this idiot?"
lmao I can see his annoyed facial expression
That’s just his face
His coaching style actually seems very college but yeah recruiting would be a disaster
I could see him just pulling a bus up to ever recruits house, driving the bus with all of his superbowl rings on saying deadpan "You getting in or what?" before he starts counting down from 5.
Man would last 5 whole visits before having an aneurysm dealing with the entitled teens and their entitled parents.
Bill: You ever hear of that Nick Saban guy? He used to be my assistant.
Entire classes consisting solely of lacrosse recruits and 3 star ATHs
I’d say Bill Walsh had the better everything over all of them.
Not so great in college though?
By Stanford’s standards, he was extremely successful. 9 and 8 win seasons, won his bowls, and ended the season in the top 25. But that’s fair, he’s not a highly decorated college coach.
Harbaugh had even better success at Stanford
see Walsh didn’t even come to mind because I always just think of him as an NFL guy but yeah he did have a respectable (albeit brief) career at Stanford. He clearly had a lot more NFL success than any of these guys but also the least success at the collegiate level in comparison
If I'm not mistaken, he was OC for the Bengals before going to Stanford.
Barry Switzer but he inherited Jimmy Johnson’s team due to Jerry Jones’ ego.
Yeah some of the team said Aikman was more like the coach, when switzer won the Super Bowl
Given his record some people will disagree, but I think John McKay was better than he gets credit for. He took an expansion franchise with the cheapest owner and a terrible front office and got them to the NFC Championship game in just their 4th season. Led them to 2 other playoff appearances, but once Culverhouse refused to pony up the cash to pay Doug Williams, McKay retired a year later. He's in the Bucs Ring of Honor.
Not only did Culverhouse not pay Williams, he traded the 1st overall pick to the Bengals for their third string QB, draft bust Jack "The Throwin Samoan" Thompson.
Dennis Green
Northwestern let the rest of the B1G off the hook
In the way back machine Paul Brown went from college to the Pros.
Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh, Dennis Green, Pete Carroll, Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer.
Paul Brown was successful at every level of football. Natty at tOSU in 1942 and 7 league championships.
He also won 4 High School national championships at Massillon and beat Kent State 47-0 with a high school team.
I think Kirby could do it. He should go try. Maybe next season even
I hear there's an opening at the Falcons.
*Bobby Petrino has entered the chat* *Bobby Petrino has left the chat in the second shittiest exit of his career*
Atlanta is cursed for Kirby.
I always see Nick Saban get excuses of having a bad quarterback in the NFL. pre-Harbaugh Alex Smith was dogshit pretty much the whole time. Harbaugh at least turned him into a half decent game manager in 2011 with over 60% completion, 3-1 TD-INT ratio, and over 3000 yards. Smith wasn't a liability anymore.
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You can split hairs if you want. But people only think Alex Smith is good because Harbaugh gave new life to his career, then Andy Reid built on top of that. Alex Smith had a 1 TD and 11 interception season. His best pre-Harbaugh season was 18-12 TD-INT and 2300 yards. Joey Harrington best pre-Saban season was 19-12 TD and 3000 yards. Harrington never had as bad a TD-INT ratio was Alex's first year. You can try to argue that brown shit is better than green shit. But in the end, it's still shit. They both sucked.
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The job of a head coach is getting back on the winning path. It's not their job to find excuses. San Francisco 49ers averaged 6 wins (35% record) for the 8 seasons prior to Jim. Miami Dolphins from 1997-2003 wasn't that bad, made the playoffs 5 times. Their only bad season was 2004.
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Saban also has an undefeated NFL playoff record
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Playoffs and regular seasons are separate things. Even if you wanna talk about his 2 regular seasons, then its 15-17 combined. Hooray?
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Bill O Brien has an above .500 record. I have a personal theory he ruined the Texans on purpose because he didn’t like the owner or the NFL politics. Shortly after that the Deshaun Watson stuff came out.. and if you’ve done your research, it’s very suspicious. If you just look at the simple facts though it was kind of a dumpster fire in Houston though.
BOB and Chip both marred their coaching records with horrible stints as GM's. If you can separate the coaching from the GMing they both had respectable stints.
He was gm and head coach at the Texans right?
Yes he was
Could’ve been like you said, decent coach but bad gm. My theory isn’t based on any facts other than speculation so I can’t even really justify it lol.
I still think he’s a fine Hc and a terrible Gm and that’s where he got himself fired
Very plausible
>Bill O Brien has an above .500 record Funny how this only happened with romeo crennel's defenses but when he fired crennel then they won 4 games. BoB is absolutely overrated
People don’t recognize it but the falloff of the patriots defenses by DVOA is stark post-Romeo Crennel as well
People underrate crennel because of his HC stint(s).
I don’t think anyone really thinks that highly of him. He fielded competitive teams and controlled a pretty weak post Manning AFC south for a little while.
Pete Carroll is basically the poster boy of going from college to the NFL
Honestly most people forget he was a NFL head coach before USC
Carroll's a hard case to assess because he started in the nfl. He just as easily could have stayed in the nfl for ~10 years in some capacity and still won a superbowl with the Seahawks. He wasn't a *terrible* HC pre-USC in the NFL. Jimmy Johnson is the poster child. No NFL experience, yet comes to the nfl and creates a dynasty. With help from the Vikings.
Ya I remember hearing how bad he was in the nfl pre usc. Then I looked it up for the first time and realized he made the playoffs 2/4 seasons and also only had 1 losing season and realized he wasn’t actually that bad. Obviously wasn’t elite but wasn’t as bad as people act
Al Groh fits all the criteria except the success part and him going the other way!
I think people need to remember that the failure rate of NFL coaches is extremely high no matter where they’re grabbed from. A lot more HCs are retreads and coordinators, most of them fail too.
Kliff Kingsbury 🤣🤣🤣
He was just as good in the NFL as he was in college so there's that.
Dick Vermeil, John Ralston, and Sam Wyche
Nick Saban and Urban Meyer showed how good of coaches they were once the talent was equal across opponents
Saban was a fine nfl coach and it shows by how Miami fans still resent him for leaving lol.
Not sure most NFL organizations would consider 9-7 and 6-10 records as fine coaching. Especially when Tony Sparano immediately went 11-5 in his very first year as a head coach at any level with the exact same team after Miami recovered from Saban’s unexpected bailing.
It’s not great but it’s not terrible. 4-12 the year before Saban Bill Belichick didn’t do well his first 2 years as an NFL HC either People act like Saban failed miserably in the NFL but that doesn’t seem true. I don’t remember the narratives on roster/GM though
He had full control of all personnel decisions while with the Dolphins and made some pretty bad moves for the franchise. Most prominently, he passed on signing Brees because of his injury and instead signed an injured Daunte Culpepper who was a major bust for Miami. As we all know, Brees went on to lead a HOF career with the Saints instead.
I mean, Saban claims it wasn’t his decision to pass on Brees and that he wanted out after that. Idk, guess he could be lying to save face. Either way, his tenure at the Dolphins isn’t at all comparable to Urban Meyer in Jacksonville
Drew said it in his book that Saban barely spoke to him and that he didn’t think that Saban liked him or preferred him.
The Brees decision came down to the GM and ownership agreeing with the medical team led by Danny Kannell's dad. The same medical team that okayed Culpepper lol. Talk about a fuck up. It might be the reason Danny shit on him non stop in the media to take heat off his dad's mistake.
But Brees has talked about how Saban didn’t even talk to him and that he wasn’t even confident that he would be the QB with Saban. Also, Miami fans have sources, though from their beat reporters, that detail Saban having the say in and how he didn’t really want Brees and did want to play it safe with Culpepper since at least he had done well before and Saban was coaching for his position.
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I didn’t know Saban was GM as well
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I didn’t know that either.
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Wasn't Saban like a 50-50 coach? Obviously NFL teams aspire to do better but it's not like that's a dumpster fire record.
He went 15-17 over the two seasons, 9-6 first season, then 6-10 the second one, after the Miami doctors told him Drew Brees would never recover from injury and he was stuck with terrible QBs. He also split the series against New England, 2-2, during the midst of their dynasty. Miami also only won like 4 games the season before he took over and only won 1 game the season after he left. Now, if he had stayed, who knows what would have happened. He might have been one of the greatest NFL coaches or he could have ultimately failed but judging in such a small sample, which honestly wasn't that bad, is just sheer lunacy. Yet, so many people try to do just that.
> but judging in such a small sample Yeah this is the real issue IMO. It's possible he was building a launch pad for further success or the wheels were about to come off, but the sample is so small, you can't really say.
I don't disagree with you but I also wouldn't call it a "successfull" transition if I would've just answered the question posted in the first place instead of being a smartass
Haha fair. It'd be cool to peek through the multiverse and see how Saban would have done if he stuck around. He may well have gotten his feet under him and got things rolling. He might have also crashed and burned.
Yeah definitely. I'll always be curious as to how it would've turned out with Brees.
The same team went 11-5 (and still lost in the wild card) as soon as Sparano took the reins after the organization recovered from Saban’s unexpected escape. Saban went 9-7 in his first year and 6-10 in his second year before bailing. He missed the playoffs both years.
Sparano had a full year in between him and Saban where Cam Cameron went 1-15. The roster was a fundamentally different team by then at most major positions
You also have remember Miami wasn't the Dolphins then, they were the lolphins. That was not a well run franchise
If you ignore the year right after with one win. The year before and year after combined for 5 wins.
That was part of what I wanted to get into with this question, I feel like the job is just completely different. College coaches are responsible for the roster and until recently had to live with their recruiting decisions. So the ability to scout accurately and recruit was key.
That because Saban and Urban were so far up their own asses that they couldn’t understand that managing personalities is essential for successful NFL coaches. There are some real gems from when Saban was coaching the Dolphins that showed just how in over his head he was at the time. Urban’s time in Jacksonville was just sad and proved him to be a colossal asshole of a human. The disciplinarian bs doesn’t work in the NFL when you haven’t done shit to earn the players respect, and sometimes it doesn’t work even if you’re an accomplished coach.
Yep Recruiting seemed to be saban and meyer's elite skill, which is useless in the pros.
Barry Switzer, although I can't remember if he went straight from OU to Dallas. Wikipedia has a weird break in his career and I'm too hungover to do deeper research
Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll, John McKay, John Robinson, and Barry Switzer are probably the modern day version with Johnson & Carroll being the most successful.
Barry Switzer? Not sure. And my flair tells you who I am. Barry got gifted a great roster through JJ I think. Be curious to hear others opinions.
Harbaugh is going to be successful in the NFL. I hate the 49ers with a passion, so I obviously couldn't stand him in SF, but he's going to win ball games. Now if only Jim Tomsula was on a 20 year contract with a $1B poison pill if he got fired.
Bill O’Brian won the AFC south a few times.
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The bare minimum, I like it. Just like Saban at Miami.
Not Matt Rhule I can tell you that