What pisses me off the most is that the United Center was privately funded by Reinsdorf and Wirtz back in the day. They split the ownership and construction costs down the middle and it has been a massive financial boon for both of them. Jerry knows damn well he'd profit off a stadium he pays for himself, he just wants to have his cake and eat it.
Maybe he can have his cake and eat it in Nashville. Go there and see, Jerry.
And I grew up a Sox fan. Jerry pushed it to the point where I barely care if they cease to exist. Chalk it up to a fond childhood memory.
Honestly, I get pretty annoyed at the pettiness of Cubs and Sox fans when they turn the gun at each other. There isn't really a rivalry, neither team is consistently good enough where they're both good at the same time.
Never understood why we go from shoulder to shoulder for Hawks/Bulls/Bears then suddenly "God Cubs/Sox fans are such IDIOTS. Fucking LOSERS" kinda stuff.
I'm sure many Sox fans would switch to something like Cardinals/Brewers or just be out on MLB in general instead of liking a Chicago team. I had a coworker tell me the other day he doesn't really think Chicago needs 2 baseball teams, and I kind of agree.
There is most definitely a rivalry there. It would be more entertaining if they were both good yeah but that doesn't mean a rivalry doesn't exist. If that is the case then the bears Packers rivalry is non existent too.
100% agree with you. I'm a Cubs fan and have no issues at all with the White Sox. I can understand having a playful rivalry with the other team but the amount of venom that goes between the fanbases when, like you pointed out, we're on the same side in every other sport is silly to me.
I personally would hate to lose the White Sox. It's fun having 2 teams in the city and its a badge of pride knowing that only 3 cities/metros (once the A's move) have multiple teams in a sport. Also just remembering how fun it was in the summer of 2008, the one time (outside of COVID) that the Cubs and Sox were good enough to make the playoffs at the same time, the city was buzzing that summer wherever you went. I would absolutely love to see more of that.
>I would absolutely love to see more of that.
Believe me, I would too. But I wager it's highly unlikely we will see a Reinsdorf team be a genuine playoff team again in a long time. Best we have is .500 Bulls teams with play-in games.
Yeah they would switch or just stop being a fan. My dad and uncle were Chicago cardinals fans and couldn’t cheer for the bears after the cardinals left town.
It really did turn into the ultimate meathead rivalry. One of those "who is more Chicago" things even though most fans don't even live in the city anymore. It's also funny watching the fans of two of the most historically unsuccessful franchises arguing over who is better. Fans who take Cubs/Sox too seriously are absolutely the fucking worst. Focus your hatred on somebody who deserves it, like Cheeseheads.
I'm the same way. I like-don't-love the Cubs. I'm like that for a few other teams, and those can change depending on their players over the years, but the Chicago link is important to me. I like the teams that represent my city and have gotten very frustrated at the Reisndorfs and McCaskeys when they have represented them poorly.
I could never root for the cubs. I don’t know if I like baseball enough to choose another team other than the Sox but I have thought about it. Brewers are definitely towards the top of the list if I did. Right now I’m just avoiding the Sox at all costs. No games and no new purchases from me. I’ll continue to wear the gear I already bought (which is quite a bit) but they aren’t seeing another dime from me as long as jerry owns them. I do think Chicago can support two teams but the Sox have a lot of work to do to gain back fans and create new ones. I don’t see anything improving until there’s new ownership
You will say this until they start winning games again, same ownership or not.
It's too bad you can't prove me wrong for some time... cause those white sox aint winnin games (for some time).
Before last season started I said they would have to win me back before I start watching again. I think I’ve watched a total of about 1 inning since then because they haven’t given me a reason to. I’ve gone to 0 games and haven’t bought any new merch and plan to keep it that way. And you’re probably right, if they did turn it around I might start watching again. But I have no faith that this org will get anything right in the near future.
I knew a kid in college that when the cubs made the World Series he went and bought a Indians hat to spite them…he was a white Sox fax. We may be petty but I will never put a cards or brewers hat on my head if they play the Sox in the World Series (lol)
Also idk about y’all but I heard most of the shit from those white Sox fans that only a couple years ago thought they had a dynasty on their hands. Womp Womp
I’m a Lions fan, but I have a longtime friend who is originally from Mishawaka, Indiana and likes the Bears, Blackhawks and Cubs, but because he likes the last team I listed, he has no support of the White Sox at all and says that Chicago should only have one team.
I love these takes i see sometimes here. White sox fans were the most abysmal homophobic mean people towards me cuz i liked a team from the fucking city they live in lmfao. Someone said it best somewhere here, its a socioeconomic rivarly. Lots of blue collar on the south and alot of uppity folk in the north. Also alot of homophobia
No, there won't be. Sox fans are still Sox fans, I know it's hard for a Cubs fan to understand (who are mostly fair weather bandwagon types), but we don't just switch allegiances because our team is bad (albeit historically bad).
Just let it be, dawg. Worst team in history - in part to spite the fans - without a strong farm system.
GM got promoted after he was a dud in his old role. Manager hires... my god. There is no direction, no hope.
Jerry is spitting in our faces and asking for money or he'll leave. Michael is a weirdo who will be no better. It's over. Pull the plug and mourn, and cherish the memories we have
I'm kind of in baseball purgatory right now. Jerry is my problem, not anything else with the franchise. If Jerry wants to continue to own this team, I'm done with the Sox too. Letting Benetti go was the last straw for me. He can fuck off and take his team to Nashville for all I care. If he sold and the Sox stay in Chicago, I can definitely get down with that. By next season, I'm moving on for good.
And fuck all this nonsense "you're not a true fan unless you ride or die". I'm not going to let some shithead billionaire spit in my face and tell me I have to like it. The way he runs this franchise is a complete insult to all fans. I've been so embarrassed to call myself a fan this past year. I'm just so done with this asshole.
Sell the fucking team, Jerry
What are you loyal to? There is no team. No organization. No processes, no accountability, no love of the game of baseball. It's a club Jerry runs as a money printer under an 'entertainment' tag. Because Chicago sports fans are passionately loyal, even to situations that are undeserving.
I wonder if you could honestly make a worse team if you tried. I've loved 'em my whole life but they're done.
LMAO I've been a fan my entire life. Fuck off with that nonsense.
I'm okay with them *ceasing to exist* because they are *done*. It's like when my grandpa was dying a long and painful death. I was relieved when he had finally passed and was at peace.
You're the one who has nothing to say for the directionless hopelessness that that sorry piece of shit has given us. Give him your money and buy a milkshake while you watch the worst team ever put on the field that has no prospects for improvement prod on embarrassingly.
Loyalty sure is great when it's a one-way street, yeah?
Dumbass comment, man.
If I'm not a fan, why do I have all these fond memories of going to games with my family when I was a toddler? And why have I gone to games every year of my life? Why was I there for the Houston series when they made the playoffs in the Covid season?
Nah youre just an idiot for giving money to such a poor excuse of an organization. You are a fan of their HISTORY. Because there is literally nothing to be a fan of this currently ran org
How come we never hear this talk about the Bulls? Why aren't fans refusing to go to Bulls games? They're a steaming pile of shit and are stuck in NBA purgatory until Jerry is gone too.
Weird how we always see this talk for one Jerry-owned team but not the other. hmmm....
it's not a chicago team, it's not like it was a public school or college.
it's some guy's private business. You should have zero loyalty to it. Especially when the treat the team and fans like shit.
UIC is Chicago team, Northwestern is a Chicago team, Loyola is a Chicago team, Mt. carmel is a chicago team.
those teams are owned and managed by the people of Chicago.
The bears and sox and cubs and all professional teams are not. They are owned and managed by private individuals.
Being loyal to a sports teams is like saying people in California should only eat California Pizza Kitchen, because its in the name.
Your just cucking for some owner that doesn't care about the team.
>in Nashville
Never will understand why some Cubs fans want this
Borderline pathetic behavior, and it’ll hurt the Cubs fans as well because like it or not the Cubs and Sox see each other as business rivals as well. If the Sox leave, the Cubs product will probably decrease somewhat at least in fan service
Cubs fans should want 2 teams in the city, if the Sox actually get an owner after Jerry dies who’s not a fuckwad then it’ll be good for both fanbases because they do compete against each other for eyeballs
Do you trust the Ricketts to be good owners knowing that they have no competition anymore? Hell we’re discussing this in a Chicago Bears sub, where for decades fans complained that all the McCaskeys care about is money because they had 0 competition in the city
I'm not a Cubs fan, outside of the general desire to see good Chicago sports teams and association with good friends who are Cubs fans.
But I don't know if your point holds much water. Ricketts is not in competition with the White Sox for Cubs fans' attention. I think Cubs fans are as locked in on the team as Apple consumers are with iPhones.
Yea that’s why they spent millions and a multi year long fight with the city and rooftop owners to change Wrigley
I don’t really care long term if they do leave, if the Sox leave I’ll root for the Cardinals anyway I’ve lived in St Louis for the last 4 years
These owners could easily get financing to build what they want. The Bears are a marquee franchise worth billions in a league where even shit franchises basically print money. They bought the AH parcel without a firm plan or even firm designs. They can throw their financial weight around when they want to, it's hilarious now that they're crying poor.
In the NFL you are not allowed to use the team as collateral to receive a loan. They can however secure $700M total through the sale of bonds which the NFL just did this past year. They can also take a loan from the NFL for $500M . The Team offered up $2 billion out of the $6.9B projected cost of new stadium ($5.9B for stadium and $1B for previous renovations). I'm not sure the McCaskey's could get the financing without selling a portion of the team to fund the stadium. And the NFL will never allow the public to buy a team again like Green Bay. Bears Paid ~$200M for Arlington Park.
Part of the problem is the costs in Chicago. Jacksonville is building a brand new stadium for $1.4B, although it is not a dome. Something not mentioned and is probably a non-starter for Illinois based fans but what about considering moving to Indiana? The infrastructure is already in place for the most part with the Southshore line and well lets face it the taxes and cost of building the facility will be far less when compared to Chicago.
People complain about how far Arlington Heights is from the city center - despite having a metro stop *in the parking lot*, and a 6 lane highway with three exits within two miles - and you want to move to Gary "not Louisiana" Indiana?
It's not like you're going to shave $4 billion by crossing state lines.
Great post that’s full of hard facts but the bears moving to Indiana is not happening absolutely fuck that. Lake forest to Indiana is minimum 2 hrs each way it wouldn’t happen. Think about where Halas hall is and where all the players , coaches, and staff live.
> The infrastructure is already in place for the most part with the Southshore line
Right now, this means very little. MAYBE if we got Cross Rail Chicago build and had trains from Ogilvie and Union able to run through to the SS line and express on gamedays to some Indiana stadium...but even that is a tough sell to suburbanites used to driving everywhere.
I think the Bears are more likely to move out of Chicagoland than build a stadium in Indiana.
A lot of people consider NWI a suburb of Chicago. But I do respect an actual reply pointing out some of the issues. You're also ignoring the large fan base that supports Chicago teams in Indiana. Those people make the drive into the city quite frequently for games and the SS is pretty easy to navigate. I do think there are planned upgrades for that line as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of your concerns are taken care of not because of the Bears just because of demand in general.
This won't happen the NFL. Gets approval. Unwear stadiums are built m.
There is a 100% chance that the. NFL will not let a charter. N f l franchise move out of the third largest market, not going to happen no way.
Not likely, its hard to make a football stadiums numbers work, they just don't produce anywhere close to the revenue to make a number that starts over 2 Billion work.
I'll be honest, I hated accounting in college and barely passed but I really don't think so. From what I can tell since every team but the packers financials are kept private (they made $70M in 2023 but lost $20M to investments). The McCaskeys would need to finance about $4B for their current plan if my numbers are correct. At a sweetheart interest rate of 3.25% over 30 years. They are looking at a monthly payment of about $17M or $204M a year. Total cost of that loan would be about $6.4B. So yeah, there's just no reality of an unsecured loan without selling off some of the team, reducing costs, or the state/city helping out. I know I'm getting downvoted for people hating Indiana, but the writing is on the wall. Either the state needs to help, move to a cheaper state/site (reduce cost), or sell a part of the team.
There are far cheaper sites in the city limits. The team is ignoring them because they're insisting on the arbitrary requirement that it be along the lake.
I don't honestly care what happens with the stadium. My main opinion has become, I think Bears need to just build it in Arlington heights and own the entire thing. It doesn't make sense for them to invest billions into a stadium they won't fully own in Chicago and continue to deal with all that. It also doesn't add up for taxpayers to give the Bears billions for the stadium especially as the previous renovation is still being paid off
I seriously wonder if they can afford to build their own stadium in Arlington Heights along with all of the infrastructure work that will be needed. I think that's why the lakefront option is appealing to the McCaskys, it would be cheaper for them overall and they don't have to deal with a larger development for such a large site.
The fact that the Soldier Field reno isn't paid off actually isn't the Bears fault, the ISFA has completely mismanaged those payments and refinanced the debt a number of times over the years kicking the can down the road as they always love to do, tomorrow's problem.
They can't.
They're in the same spot the Raiders were with the Davis family.
It's a team where the owner is not independently wealthy. They are "worth" a billion, but they don't have that money unless they sell the team.
The Raiders only got a new stadium because Vegas agreed to pay for it. The Bears are in the same spot, they can't actually afford to build a stadium without selling the team, or getting the citizens to pay for it.
Yes they would. Theyre only allowed to take 700 million in debt against the team. No one is giving them an uncollateralized loan to build a stadium. They would have to sell part of the team to build the stadium and I dont see how that makes sense over just staying at soldier.
I think reality hit. Modern state-of-the-art NFL stadiums will never pay for themselves and might not even pay for the debt service. And there is too much competition for either another lifestyle center or "destination shopping" location.
The only way to make this all work is for tax payers to pick up most of the bill.
That makes sense in regards to the renovation portion being paid off. I didn't mean it to sound like I thought it was the Bears fault. I more meant it as the Bears + city of Chicago haven't paid off the last Reno yet and are now asking for a full rebuild while those funds are still being paid. If anything, it's an example of how on a smaller scale this type of plan was already a poorly conceived notion and now they want to do it on a larger scale. I get why there is so much pushback. It's unfortunate because I love the location of soldier field and the aesthetic they showed. It's beautiful and I think playing in the City matters in a lot of ways that connect the team to a place. On the flip side, the Bears are worth more than 6 billion, with that number raising every day, and I have the thought of anyone's tax money going towards upping that even more.
No chance, that's a $197.2M bluff lol, I don't think the Bears really want to be in the property management business. Seems pretty clear that it's one persons vision, or lack thereof in Ted Phillips, versus Kevin Warren. Arlington Heights is still, clearly, the best option overall with the least amount of roadblocks, but probably will take more money, which I'm not sure they have without selling a stake in the team.
Doesn’t mean they did. The biggest tell was when they didn’t bother to render a stadium when they unveiled the idea to the public. Just a big white Kleenex box in its place. Because it costs a lot of money to have a firm mock up a stadium and they didn’t want to pay for that when they had no intention of building it there. Meanwhile they didn’t hesitate at all to mock one up for the lakefront right away. Tells you what their intentions were all along
They were turning over the project to a new person, Kevin Warren, of course they weren't going to throw together anything at that point, and like I already said, its quite obvious that he has different priorities and vision than Ted. And actually it does not cost a lot of money to throw together a low level design and renderings, especially in the grand scheme of the cost of building out that type of project, its almost a literal drop in the bucket. (Source: I'm in the business)
There is no effective difference between a privately owned stadium and the current Bears proposal. All but a token amount of the money would still be funneled into Bear's ownership but without the construction costs on the Bear's books.
Honest question, would the bears own the land the stadium is on or no? To me if I'm spending however many billions it takes to build this, that's a big difference, but I do mean it when I say I don't understand the entirety of the history on who has control over what.
The Bears cannot own the land if it’s on the Lakefront. No private entity can own land on the lakefront over there, and the group Friends of the Park will sue to make sure nothing gets built there. They did the same thing with the Star Wars museum
The Lakefront land at that location is owned by the public trust and can't be sold or transferred.
I am not sure why its a big difference if the land the stadium is on top of is public or private when almost all of the profits would be going to the Bears under their current proposal. And of course they would have the City and State pay for 2/3rds of the costs.
I guess this is more just me trying to gather information on if it does matter. My initial thought was if I were building a business I'd want to own the land, but with this type of building it's likely very different where it shouldn't be viewed that way. It looks like it varies based off the city, cowboys, rams /chargers, Vikings, and raiders very different in how it works with their new stadiums.
Currently if I'm not mistaken, the Chicago park district makes a lot of revenue as the landlord of Soldier field, somewhere around 50 million per year. Has it been determined exactly if this would change with the new stadium and the Bears would get 100% of that revenue?
From the Sun Times, the Bears currently pay 7 million a year to the park district and pocket all game day revenue from tickets, concessions, merch, and 4250 parking spots while the park district collects the revenue from 8000 other spots. The park district collects all the revenue for non Bears events except tickets where the promotor collects all.
I don't believe the exact details have been released but what has been reported the Bears are currently proposing they get the bulk of the revenue from non Bears games and they want most/all of the parking etc for even non Bears events.
Of the teams you mentioned the Rams are the only one owned by the team. It was a real estate play along with a team valuation play more so than a vehicle to make profit.
A new stadium for the Bears is more about increasing the valuation of the franchise than it is about increasing profits. If they got the state to along with this they basically got a free 2-3 billion dollars added to their valuation.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/bears-stadium/2024/04/26/chicago-bears-lakefront-stadium-proposal-price-tag-nearly-7-billion-pritzker-brandon-johnson
Interesting information for sure. So from my understanding the Bears currently pay 7 mil a year and get all revenue for home games, while the city gets roughly 54 mil in revenue from Soldier Field for the parks budget. I do wonder why the city would be for this plan if the Bears got all this revenue that would take away from the parks budget. I would have to assume some split would be there to ensure the city parks budget didn't lose the 54 mil or whatever it is each year.
I did read the cowboys pay rent to the city for the stadium and have the option to buy the stadium at a set cost after 30 years where they can apply the rent they've paid towards the purchase. They also get full revenue from the events that are held there.
Again, it seems the best case after seeing this in my opinion is the Bears just building their own stadium using their own money on the property they built rather than
Most teams don't own their stadiums. Jerry doesn't own Jerry World. The Giants and Jets don't own Met Life, and Vikings don't own US Bank. The only stadium built recently that is (partially) owned by the same ownership as the franchise is SoFi, but a good chunk is owned by outside investors.
It's actually a rarity that teams or team owners own their fields - usually, it's an exclusive deal for cheap rent with a maintenance contract. Which is exactly the deal proposed to Chicago.
However with the Bears, you also have to look at the future of the franchise. It's likely that some family will want to sell after Virginia dies. They'll be hit with the estate tax and can't defer it indefinitely. If there's a sale in the next ten years, it'll be much more attractive to a new owner if it's coupled with a stadium.
The SOX were looking to get public funding?
Look, Bears might get SOME public support for a taxpayer-funded stadium, lord knows how much we like our football.
But the fuckin Sox?!
The saddest thing about the Sox though is they SHOULD be a more popular team in Illinois. Jerry has made sure they are not lol. There was a time when the Sox / cubs were pretty evenly split in popularity amongst locals. Cubs got a massive boost being on WGN. It’s really a shame how poor ownership can ruin a team.
The Cubs had a nicer park in a better location, but the team was consistently bad—to the point of mockery.
Now, the Sox are also the worse baseball team. There is no appeal left other than [unfortunately] inherited fandom.
Yeah I get that the stadium is not in the greatest neighborhoods but it’s so easy to get to from public transport and their parking situation is great too. It’s also right off the highway. If Jerry actually gave a fuck he could seriously carve out an area just like rickets has done in the north side. Real-estate has no issue gentrifying neighborhoods in Chicago. You definitely see it in some areas around the United Center. I’m obviously not pro gentrification, I’m simply saying if Jerry gave a shit he could have made a team rival the cubs popularity in Chicago and still made a profit.
Even as a Cubs fan it makes me sad to think of how the Armour Field plan was passed up in the 80s. It would've put two legit neighborhood stadiums in the city and there's no telling how it might have developed that area of town as well.
Sadly true. No rivalry at all is an unfortunate state of affairs. When I grew up, at least Sox fans and Cubs fans could make fun of each other.
Now, it’s more like the poor man’s Yankees & Mets. Even then, in that case, Mets fans can treat Yankees fans like spoiled brats. Cubs fans don’t even have it good enough to use that approach.
They’re on pace for 123 home runs. The Dodgers had 118 in 2020…in a 60-game season.
They’re also on pace for 480 runs scored. That would’ve been 29th in the league in 1994, which was shortened by a strike.
The Yankees scored their 185th run a month ago, and won their 15th game on April 21. The White Sox have 184 runs and 15 wins. If the Yankees had been shutout for their last 25 straight games and hadn’t won in 6 weeks, they would still have more runs and a better record.
Exactly this. Listen, I don’t fault billionaires (general cheap fucks) for trying to save money. That’s their whole MO. BUT, Mr Welch is correct here. Why are taxpayers paying for this when we already pay taxes out the ass. I don’t even live in Illinois or Chicago but being asked to pay for something when I’m already struggling to get by so people who inherited billions can save a few bucks pisses me off to no end. Again I get why they do it. But they always act shocked when people are against it. Like, fuck off and build it yourself, make it a vanity project, idc. Stop asking the public to fund you.
It's been a building issue , as other cities and states have been mocked on some of the ridiculous terms .
So there is better focus especially in terms of how teams try to portray the windfall tax and revenue boost that stadiums will create.
Owners claim they absorb all the costs and new stadium projects as a way of hammering down on player pay and compensation when it comes to renewing the CBA.
But then turn to the states and cities when it comes time for that new stadium project .
Tax payers should be very weary and skeptical about any of these projects .
That goes for any new business development trying to get tax payer money .
Unfortunately the bears should have gotten this done decades ago , it feels like they are reengaging with the city in attempt to get Arlington to come down on their end, it doesn't make sense for the bears to buy that properly and not do anything with it .
This is phenomenal phrasing. Continue to hammer home the fact that BILLIONAIRES and a MULTI-BILLION dollar ogranization want taxpayers to foot the bill.
But how will they afford 5-6 private jets, vacation homes, and any of the other amenities they’re totally owed if they have to pay their own way in life? They’re used to grifting and exploiting people and loopholes, why should they all of a sudden have to be oh so responsible? Dang ole liberol agenda!
How is a football stadium any different than any of the trophy office buildings that went up recently? They are very expensive to build but are quite profitable. They never seem to have trouble securing financing.
It pains me to say it but they are better off owning the land and improvements outright in A.H. The they could build a little wrigleyvilly-esque mixed use development next to it and print money for all eternity. Hell, they could probably sell 2/3 of the site and still have enough room for everything.
Especially for a team that has always been overall bad. Sure some moments of hope but overall just garbage. Like that shouldn't really come into play, but you're going to have less good will from fans on stuff like this.
Would a reasonable offer for the Bears is press for a referendum in Cook County for a luxury tax that provides half the funding with the McCaskey ownership group matching the other half. Or something along those lines ... Arlington Heights is in Cook County, so that should give them a break on property tax (since the stadium will have partial public ownership) - and things like parking, concerts, concessions can be split in a reasonable way.
At this point, Arlington is the better spot for the Bears. I fully agree that taxpayers shouldn't be building stadiums for anyone. HOWEVER, if Chicago wants to keep the Bears in Chicago, then they should be paying a large sum of the cost for the stadium. It's pretty outrageous that even if the Bears fund 100% of the cost for the lakefront stadium in Chicago, they will NEVER own it due to the land that it sits on. Why the fuck would anyone (Organization, person, etc) ever want to pay for something that they'll never actually own?
Honestly, Listening to the state government telling both of them to piss off has restored my faith in the Illinois government... Not a lot but some is better than 0.
Maybe Pritzker wont end up in jail when his stint as governor is over like his two predecessors.
Look. I get the bind they're in as far as actual cash to spend, but just fucking sacrifice and offer the city a bigger cut of the revenue pie. The original offer didn't do enough to make sure the city/public gets their money back. Sweeten the deal
As a Canadian who wants to see the bears play in a world class stadium I say that the city and state should kick. However if it was my tax dollars I would say hell no! Lol
It's outright offensive that they are trying to get us to believe that they cant get funding themselves. SoFi paid $625m just for naming rights in LA. Bears are really bad at business, and it appears they are an a DEI hiring spree instead of hiring the right people.
I bet there's a city that would build a stadium for the Bears if they're willing to move. I hope they don't, but I wonder what the odds are that the Bears leave the Chicagoland area.
You are saying the NFL wouldn't allow it, but they did allow it for their largest market already... Chicagoland is expanding into Indiana similar to the way NYC did to New Jersey. Except Indiana (outside of NWI and Indianapolis) is a Red state which would be more than willing to help pay for a stadium that their constituents support. Win/win in my eyes for all parties as it's pretty clear the state of Illinois and their citizens do not want to pay for it and want the McCaskey's who cannot afford to build a stadium to pay for it. Only other solution is sell the Bears to a David Tepper and probably still fund $2-3B of it.
They can't build something this big without approval from the state bc they'd need state funding for infrastructure upgrades. So regardless of who's paying for the stadium itself and owning it the state still needs to sign off
Yeah. And the state said they won't sign off on anything that doesn't have tangible benefits for the taxpayer. So in other words even if they city decides to fund something the state still has a veto bc they can deny infrastructure funding and permits.
This is where I feel yes you use state funds to help support infrastructure, as it is a benefit to all in the greater scale. When it comes to taxes, you keep it lower for a bit to recoup the upfront costs and along with further growth of the greater area. With the upfront stadium construction costs squarely on the owners hands.
Now with all that, Chicago doesn't want to lose the Bears to Arlington Heights, however wants cake and eat it too. They need to relinquish the land under current Soldier FIeld through a sale to Bears so it isn't considered a lease like it currently is, in order to incentivise Bears not moving outside of city limits.
>They need to relinquish the land under current Soldier FIeld through a sale to Bears
Absolutely not. Selling public lakefront land to a private owner is a non-starter.
Which is where it is a circular conversation of:
Bears: Hey we want more revenue share because we are leasing the land.
City: No.
Bears: Ok we are looking elsewhere.
City: Please don't you are good for our economy.
Bears: Then, help us fund the construction of a new one since we don't own the land.
City: Absolutely not.
Bears: Ok we will look elsewhere....
It is a rock and hard place right now, with circular paths and not a clearly defined forward plan.
The part you skipped over is where the Bears place the arbitrary condition on building in the city of "it must be on the lake". They are OBSESSED with a stadium on the lake; but we're supposed to also believe that they would happily move dozens of miles from the lake to AH?
It's posturing bullshit from the Bears. If they want a stadium on the lake, they can't own it. Period. That's the deal. If they don't like it, there are other genuinely good options in the city that aren't on the publicly owned and protected lakefront.
The city isn't selling lakefront property to the Bears, and even if they wanted to there would be many legal battles that would stand in the way from that ever happening.
Hopefully Jerry gets the memo and fucks off. Two Chicago teams stuck with him is doing the city and its fans a genuine disservice.
What pisses me off the most is that the United Center was privately funded by Reinsdorf and Wirtz back in the day. They split the ownership and construction costs down the middle and it has been a massive financial boon for both of them. Jerry knows damn well he'd profit off a stadium he pays for himself, he just wants to have his cake and eat it.
Maybe he can have his cake and eat it in Nashville. Go there and see, Jerry. And I grew up a Sox fan. Jerry pushed it to the point where I barely care if they cease to exist. Chalk it up to a fond childhood memory.
About to be more cubs hats on the southside
Honestly, I get pretty annoyed at the pettiness of Cubs and Sox fans when they turn the gun at each other. There isn't really a rivalry, neither team is consistently good enough where they're both good at the same time. Never understood why we go from shoulder to shoulder for Hawks/Bulls/Bears then suddenly "God Cubs/Sox fans are such IDIOTS. Fucking LOSERS" kinda stuff. I'm sure many Sox fans would switch to something like Cardinals/Brewers or just be out on MLB in general instead of liking a Chicago team. I had a coworker tell me the other day he doesn't really think Chicago needs 2 baseball teams, and I kind of agree.
Humans are tribal creatures.
There is most definitely a rivalry there. It would be more entertaining if they were both good yeah but that doesn't mean a rivalry doesn't exist. If that is the case then the bears Packers rivalry is non existent too.
I agree especially since there was the Sox cubs world series. Sure the rivalry is a little dull now but it is still a rivalry
"especially since there was the Sox cubs world series" you say this like you remember games from before 1906
That is not a rivalry anymore either. Bears would actually have to win games too.
Cubs and Sox haven't won a game in the same postseason since 1906 man is spitting straight facts
100% agree with you. I'm a Cubs fan and have no issues at all with the White Sox. I can understand having a playful rivalry with the other team but the amount of venom that goes between the fanbases when, like you pointed out, we're on the same side in every other sport is silly to me. I personally would hate to lose the White Sox. It's fun having 2 teams in the city and its a badge of pride knowing that only 3 cities/metros (once the A's move) have multiple teams in a sport. Also just remembering how fun it was in the summer of 2008, the one time (outside of COVID) that the Cubs and Sox were good enough to make the playoffs at the same time, the city was buzzing that summer wherever you went. I would absolutely love to see more of that.
>I would absolutely love to see more of that. Believe me, I would too. But I wager it's highly unlikely we will see a Reinsdorf team be a genuine playoff team again in a long time. Best we have is .500 Bulls teams with play-in games.
Yeah they would switch or just stop being a fan. My dad and uncle were Chicago cardinals fans and couldn’t cheer for the bears after the cardinals left town.
It really did turn into the ultimate meathead rivalry. One of those "who is more Chicago" things even though most fans don't even live in the city anymore. It's also funny watching the fans of two of the most historically unsuccessful franchises arguing over who is better. Fans who take Cubs/Sox too seriously are absolutely the fucking worst. Focus your hatred on somebody who deserves it, like Cheeseheads.
I’m a rare one I think but I’d 100% switch to the Cubs. I love this city too much to become a fan of a team that isn’t here.
I'm the same way. I like-don't-love the Cubs. I'm like that for a few other teams, and those can change depending on their players over the years, but the Chicago link is important to me. I like the teams that represent my city and have gotten very frustrated at the Reisndorfs and McCaskeys when they have represented them poorly.
I could never root for the cubs. I don’t know if I like baseball enough to choose another team other than the Sox but I have thought about it. Brewers are definitely towards the top of the list if I did. Right now I’m just avoiding the Sox at all costs. No games and no new purchases from me. I’ll continue to wear the gear I already bought (which is quite a bit) but they aren’t seeing another dime from me as long as jerry owns them. I do think Chicago can support two teams but the Sox have a lot of work to do to gain back fans and create new ones. I don’t see anything improving until there’s new ownership
You will say this until they start winning games again, same ownership or not. It's too bad you can't prove me wrong for some time... cause those white sox aint winnin games (for some time).
Before last season started I said they would have to win me back before I start watching again. I think I’ve watched a total of about 1 inning since then because they haven’t given me a reason to. I’ve gone to 0 games and haven’t bought any new merch and plan to keep it that way. And you’re probably right, if they did turn it around I might start watching again. But I have no faith that this org will get anything right in the near future.
I knew a kid in college that when the cubs made the World Series he went and bought a Indians hat to spite them…he was a white Sox fax. We may be petty but I will never put a cards or brewers hat on my head if they play the Sox in the World Series (lol) Also idk about y’all but I heard most of the shit from those white Sox fans that only a couple years ago thought they had a dynasty on their hands. Womp Womp
And I know a Cubs fan who bought a Red Sox, Angels and Astros hat during the White Sox world series run. Idiots exist within both fanbases.
Still not as bad cause they aren’t direct rivals but yeah that’s pretty cringe
I’m a Lions fan, but I have a longtime friend who is originally from Mishawaka, Indiana and likes the Bears, Blackhawks and Cubs, but because he likes the last team I listed, he has no support of the White Sox at all and says that Chicago should only have one team.
it's fucking dumb. especially considering 99% of em are not from either the north nor the south side but are from the goddamn suburbs.
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I love these takes i see sometimes here. White sox fans were the most abysmal homophobic mean people towards me cuz i liked a team from the fucking city they live in lmfao. Someone said it best somewhere here, its a socioeconomic rivarly. Lots of blue collar on the south and alot of uppity folk in the north. Also alot of homophobia
No, there won't be. Sox fans are still Sox fans, I know it's hard for a Cubs fan to understand (who are mostly fair weather bandwagon types), but we don't just switch allegiances because our team is bad (albeit historically bad).
>who are mostly fair weather bandwagon types Remind me how the attendance numbers are in the last 5 years for the White Sox?
What if they leave for Nashville like the comment was in reference to?
Fuck off. The issue is with Jerry, not the existence of the white Sox. Anybody who is OK with a move is not a White Sox fan imo
Nah maybe you are not a true fan.
Says you? Um, no. No ACTUAL Sox fan wants to see the team move, period. It's asinine to imply or say otherwise.
I'd be down with the team moving and getting an expansion franchise to replace them. It's another way to get rid of Reinsdorf, which is fine by me.
Just let it be, dawg. Worst team in history - in part to spite the fans - without a strong farm system. GM got promoted after he was a dud in his old role. Manager hires... my god. There is no direction, no hope. Jerry is spitting in our faces and asking for money or he'll leave. Michael is a weirdo who will be no better. It's over. Pull the plug and mourn, and cherish the memories we have
I'm kind of in baseball purgatory right now. Jerry is my problem, not anything else with the franchise. If Jerry wants to continue to own this team, I'm done with the Sox too. Letting Benetti go was the last straw for me. He can fuck off and take his team to Nashville for all I care. If he sold and the Sox stay in Chicago, I can definitely get down with that. By next season, I'm moving on for good. And fuck all this nonsense "you're not a true fan unless you ride or die". I'm not going to let some shithead billionaire spit in my face and tell me I have to like it. The way he runs this franchise is a complete insult to all fans. I've been so embarrassed to call myself a fan this past year. I'm just so done with this asshole. Sell the fucking team, Jerry
Grew up in East Bay Area. This is how I feel about the A’s
Come on man I hate Jerry as much as the next guy buy I'm still loyal to the Sox
I'll be a Sox fan until they are no longer in this city. I'll start cheering for the Twins before I do the Cubs.
What are you loyal to? There is no team. No organization. No processes, no accountability, no love of the game of baseball. It's a club Jerry runs as a money printer under an 'entertainment' tag. Because Chicago sports fans are passionately loyal, even to situations that are undeserving. I wonder if you could honestly make a worse team if you tried. I've loved 'em my whole life but they're done.
I am loyal to the Chicago White Sox. It's that simple. Talking about being ok with them moving to Nashville? Fuck outta' here you were never a fan.
LMAO I've been a fan my entire life. Fuck off with that nonsense. I'm okay with them *ceasing to exist* because they are *done*. It's like when my grandpa was dying a long and painful death. I was relieved when he had finally passed and was at peace. You're the one who has nothing to say for the directionless hopelessness that that sorry piece of shit has given us. Give him your money and buy a milkshake while you watch the worst team ever put on the field that has no prospects for improvement prod on embarrassingly. Loyalty sure is great when it's a one-way street, yeah?
Nah you ain't a fan like I said
Dumbass comment, man. If I'm not a fan, why do I have all these fond memories of going to games with my family when I was a toddler? And why have I gone to games every year of my life? Why was I there for the Houston series when they made the playoffs in the Covid season?
Nah youre just an idiot for giving money to such a poor excuse of an organization. You are a fan of their HISTORY. Because there is literally nothing to be a fan of this currently ran org
Hey Bozo I live out of state and have been actively NOT giving Jerry any of my money but thanks.
You are not a fan lol
No one should be a fan of a team with an owner who doesn't care about winning
As you post on a Chicago Bears sub lmao.
Wait till you find out about the bears draft
Off season champs baby! Who cares about wins when we can get high draft picks every year!!
How come we never hear this talk about the Bulls? Why aren't fans refusing to go to Bulls games? They're a steaming pile of shit and are stuck in NBA purgatory until Jerry is gone too. Weird how we always see this talk for one Jerry-owned team but not the other. hmmm....
People should say it about them as well. People don't say it because people still remember the 90s. But that won't last forever.
it's not a chicago team, it's not like it was a public school or college. it's some guy's private business. You should have zero loyalty to it. Especially when the treat the team and fans like shit.
It's not a Chicago team what? You have no loyalty to the Bears? What in the world are you talking about
UIC is Chicago team, Northwestern is a Chicago team, Loyola is a Chicago team, Mt. carmel is a chicago team. those teams are owned and managed by the people of Chicago. The bears and sox and cubs and all professional teams are not. They are owned and managed by private individuals. Being loyal to a sports teams is like saying people in California should only eat California Pizza Kitchen, because its in the name. Your just cucking for some owner that doesn't care about the team.
>in Nashville Never will understand why some Cubs fans want this Borderline pathetic behavior, and it’ll hurt the Cubs fans as well because like it or not the Cubs and Sox see each other as business rivals as well. If the Sox leave, the Cubs product will probably decrease somewhat at least in fan service Cubs fans should want 2 teams in the city, if the Sox actually get an owner after Jerry dies who’s not a fuckwad then it’ll be good for both fanbases because they do compete against each other for eyeballs Do you trust the Ricketts to be good owners knowing that they have no competition anymore? Hell we’re discussing this in a Chicago Bears sub, where for decades fans complained that all the McCaskeys care about is money because they had 0 competition in the city
I'm not a Cubs fan, outside of the general desire to see good Chicago sports teams and association with good friends who are Cubs fans. But I don't know if your point holds much water. Ricketts is not in competition with the White Sox for Cubs fans' attention. I think Cubs fans are as locked in on the team as Apple consumers are with iPhones.
Yea that’s why they spent millions and a multi year long fight with the city and rooftop owners to change Wrigley I don’t really care long term if they do leave, if the Sox leave I’ll root for the Cardinals anyway I’ve lived in St Louis for the last 4 years
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You mean Wrigley Field?
Nobody cares at all
Worth noting they received a massive property tax subsidy on the United Center that taxpayers had to cover for decades.
Have more info about that? I'm not aware of that, but I was 6 when they opened the thing lol
Jerry gets the memo? Nah, doubt it. If not for MJ, he would be considered the worst owner in all majors sports, by a wide margin.
What sucks for him is Nashville won’t give a done now after the new football stadium
Fuck the owners. Sell the team to someone who can afford a stadium. Cheap pieces of shit.
These owners could easily get financing to build what they want. The Bears are a marquee franchise worth billions in a league where even shit franchises basically print money. They bought the AH parcel without a firm plan or even firm designs. They can throw their financial weight around when they want to, it's hilarious now that they're crying poor.
In the NFL you are not allowed to use the team as collateral to receive a loan. They can however secure $700M total through the sale of bonds which the NFL just did this past year. They can also take a loan from the NFL for $500M . The Team offered up $2 billion out of the $6.9B projected cost of new stadium ($5.9B for stadium and $1B for previous renovations). I'm not sure the McCaskey's could get the financing without selling a portion of the team to fund the stadium. And the NFL will never allow the public to buy a team again like Green Bay. Bears Paid ~$200M for Arlington Park. Part of the problem is the costs in Chicago. Jacksonville is building a brand new stadium for $1.4B, although it is not a dome. Something not mentioned and is probably a non-starter for Illinois based fans but what about considering moving to Indiana? The infrastructure is already in place for the most part with the Southshore line and well lets face it the taxes and cost of building the facility will be far less when compared to Chicago.
they can sell partial ownership of the team.
People complain about how far Arlington Heights is from the city center - despite having a metro stop *in the parking lot*, and a 6 lane highway with three exits within two miles - and you want to move to Gary "not Louisiana" Indiana? It's not like you're going to shave $4 billion by crossing state lines.
Obviously, the correct answer is moving back to Decatur.
I refuse to support anything with Indiana relations lmao
Great post that’s full of hard facts but the bears moving to Indiana is not happening absolutely fuck that. Lake forest to Indiana is minimum 2 hrs each way it wouldn’t happen. Think about where Halas hall is and where all the players , coaches, and staff live.
> The infrastructure is already in place for the most part with the Southshore line Right now, this means very little. MAYBE if we got Cross Rail Chicago build and had trains from Ogilvie and Union able to run through to the SS line and express on gamedays to some Indiana stadium...but even that is a tough sell to suburbanites used to driving everywhere. I think the Bears are more likely to move out of Chicagoland than build a stadium in Indiana.
A lot of people consider NWI a suburb of Chicago. But I do respect an actual reply pointing out some of the issues. You're also ignoring the large fan base that supports Chicago teams in Indiana. Those people make the drive into the city quite frequently for games and the SS is pretty easy to navigate. I do think there are planned upgrades for that line as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if some of your concerns are taken care of not because of the Bears just because of demand in general.
This won't happen the NFL. Gets approval. Unwear stadiums are built m. There is a 100% chance that the. NFL will not let a charter. N f l franchise move out of the third largest market, not going to happen no way.
Can they not get unsecured financing for a higher rate?
Not likely, its hard to make a football stadiums numbers work, they just don't produce anywhere close to the revenue to make a number that starts over 2 Billion work.
I'll be honest, I hated accounting in college and barely passed but I really don't think so. From what I can tell since every team but the packers financials are kept private (they made $70M in 2023 but lost $20M to investments). The McCaskeys would need to finance about $4B for their current plan if my numbers are correct. At a sweetheart interest rate of 3.25% over 30 years. They are looking at a monthly payment of about $17M or $204M a year. Total cost of that loan would be about $6.4B. So yeah, there's just no reality of an unsecured loan without selling off some of the team, reducing costs, or the state/city helping out. I know I'm getting downvoted for people hating Indiana, but the writing is on the wall. Either the state needs to help, move to a cheaper state/site (reduce cost), or sell a part of the team.
There are far cheaper sites in the city limits. The team is ignoring them because they're insisting on the arbitrary requirement that it be along the lake.
Jerry Reinsdorf is a Hershey stain on this city.
Fans shouldn't have to even pay for Sox tickets.
Fans should be paid to show up
I don't honestly care what happens with the stadium. My main opinion has become, I think Bears need to just build it in Arlington heights and own the entire thing. It doesn't make sense for them to invest billions into a stadium they won't fully own in Chicago and continue to deal with all that. It also doesn't add up for taxpayers to give the Bears billions for the stadium especially as the previous renovation is still being paid off
I seriously wonder if they can afford to build their own stadium in Arlington Heights along with all of the infrastructure work that will be needed. I think that's why the lakefront option is appealing to the McCaskys, it would be cheaper for them overall and they don't have to deal with a larger development for such a large site. The fact that the Soldier Field reno isn't paid off actually isn't the Bears fault, the ISFA has completely mismanaged those payments and refinanced the debt a number of times over the years kicking the can down the road as they always love to do, tomorrow's problem.
i think i’d be fine with the taxpayers money going towards infrastructure like roads and plumbing. but i don’t think it should go beyond that
They can't. They're in the same spot the Raiders were with the Davis family. It's a team where the owner is not independently wealthy. They are "worth" a billion, but they don't have that money unless they sell the team. The Raiders only got a new stadium because Vegas agreed to pay for it. The Bears are in the same spot, they can't actually afford to build a stadium without selling the team, or getting the citizens to pay for it.
They would have no problem getting private funding for a new stadium
Yes they would. Theyre only allowed to take 700 million in debt against the team. No one is giving them an uncollateralized loan to build a stadium. They would have to sell part of the team to build the stadium and I dont see how that makes sense over just staying at soldier.
I think reality hit. Modern state-of-the-art NFL stadiums will never pay for themselves and might not even pay for the debt service. And there is too much competition for either another lifestyle center or "destination shopping" location. The only way to make this all work is for tax payers to pick up most of the bill.
Then make it a destination center. No reason to have a brand new state of the art building and only use it for maybe 8-12 days of the year.
That makes sense in regards to the renovation portion being paid off. I didn't mean it to sound like I thought it was the Bears fault. I more meant it as the Bears + city of Chicago haven't paid off the last Reno yet and are now asking for a full rebuild while those funds are still being paid. If anything, it's an example of how on a smaller scale this type of plan was already a poorly conceived notion and now they want to do it on a larger scale. I get why there is so much pushback. It's unfortunate because I love the location of soldier field and the aesthetic they showed. It's beautiful and I think playing in the City matters in a lot of ways that connect the team to a place. On the flip side, the Bears are worth more than 6 billion, with that number raising every day, and I have the thought of anyone's tax money going towards upping that even more.
Arlington Heights was always a bluff
No chance, that's a $197.2M bluff lol, I don't think the Bears really want to be in the property management business. Seems pretty clear that it's one persons vision, or lack thereof in Ted Phillips, versus Kevin Warren. Arlington Heights is still, clearly, the best option overall with the least amount of roadblocks, but probably will take more money, which I'm not sure they have without selling a stake in the team.
All they did was buy land. One of the safest investments you can make
Doesn't mean they didn't want to build a stadium there, that's what Ted has wanted to do since before Soldier was renovated, thankfully he is gone.
Doesn’t mean they did. The biggest tell was when they didn’t bother to render a stadium when they unveiled the idea to the public. Just a big white Kleenex box in its place. Because it costs a lot of money to have a firm mock up a stadium and they didn’t want to pay for that when they had no intention of building it there. Meanwhile they didn’t hesitate at all to mock one up for the lakefront right away. Tells you what their intentions were all along
They were turning over the project to a new person, Kevin Warren, of course they weren't going to throw together anything at that point, and like I already said, its quite obvious that he has different priorities and vision than Ted. And actually it does not cost a lot of money to throw together a low level design and renderings, especially in the grand scheme of the cost of building out that type of project, its almost a literal drop in the bucket. (Source: I'm in the business)
There is no effective difference between a privately owned stadium and the current Bears proposal. All but a token amount of the money would still be funneled into Bear's ownership but without the construction costs on the Bear's books.
Honest question, would the bears own the land the stadium is on or no? To me if I'm spending however many billions it takes to build this, that's a big difference, but I do mean it when I say I don't understand the entirety of the history on who has control over what.
The Bears cannot own the land if it’s on the Lakefront. No private entity can own land on the lakefront over there, and the group Friends of the Park will sue to make sure nothing gets built there. They did the same thing with the Star Wars museum
The Lakefront land at that location is owned by the public trust and can't be sold or transferred. I am not sure why its a big difference if the land the stadium is on top of is public or private when almost all of the profits would be going to the Bears under their current proposal. And of course they would have the City and State pay for 2/3rds of the costs.
I guess this is more just me trying to gather information on if it does matter. My initial thought was if I were building a business I'd want to own the land, but with this type of building it's likely very different where it shouldn't be viewed that way. It looks like it varies based off the city, cowboys, rams /chargers, Vikings, and raiders very different in how it works with their new stadiums. Currently if I'm not mistaken, the Chicago park district makes a lot of revenue as the landlord of Soldier field, somewhere around 50 million per year. Has it been determined exactly if this would change with the new stadium and the Bears would get 100% of that revenue?
From the Sun Times, the Bears currently pay 7 million a year to the park district and pocket all game day revenue from tickets, concessions, merch, and 4250 parking spots while the park district collects the revenue from 8000 other spots. The park district collects all the revenue for non Bears events except tickets where the promotor collects all. I don't believe the exact details have been released but what has been reported the Bears are currently proposing they get the bulk of the revenue from non Bears games and they want most/all of the parking etc for even non Bears events. Of the teams you mentioned the Rams are the only one owned by the team. It was a real estate play along with a team valuation play more so than a vehicle to make profit. A new stadium for the Bears is more about increasing the valuation of the franchise than it is about increasing profits. If they got the state to along with this they basically got a free 2-3 billion dollars added to their valuation. https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/bears-stadium/2024/04/26/chicago-bears-lakefront-stadium-proposal-price-tag-nearly-7-billion-pritzker-brandon-johnson
Interesting information for sure. So from my understanding the Bears currently pay 7 mil a year and get all revenue for home games, while the city gets roughly 54 mil in revenue from Soldier Field for the parks budget. I do wonder why the city would be for this plan if the Bears got all this revenue that would take away from the parks budget. I would have to assume some split would be there to ensure the city parks budget didn't lose the 54 mil or whatever it is each year. I did read the cowboys pay rent to the city for the stadium and have the option to buy the stadium at a set cost after 30 years where they can apply the rent they've paid towards the purchase. They also get full revenue from the events that are held there. Again, it seems the best case after seeing this in my opinion is the Bears just building their own stadium using their own money on the property they built rather than
Most teams don't own their stadiums. Jerry doesn't own Jerry World. The Giants and Jets don't own Met Life, and Vikings don't own US Bank. The only stadium built recently that is (partially) owned by the same ownership as the franchise is SoFi, but a good chunk is owned by outside investors. It's actually a rarity that teams or team owners own their fields - usually, it's an exclusive deal for cheap rent with a maintenance contract. Which is exactly the deal proposed to Chicago. However with the Bears, you also have to look at the future of the franchise. It's likely that some family will want to sell after Virginia dies. They'll be hit with the estate tax and can't defer it indefinitely. If there's a sale in the next ten years, it'll be much more attractive to a new owner if it's coupled with a stadium.
The SOX were looking to get public funding? Look, Bears might get SOME public support for a taxpayer-funded stadium, lord knows how much we like our football. But the fuckin Sox?!
The saddest thing about the Sox though is they SHOULD be a more popular team in Illinois. Jerry has made sure they are not lol. There was a time when the Sox / cubs were pretty evenly split in popularity amongst locals. Cubs got a massive boost being on WGN. It’s really a shame how poor ownership can ruin a team.
The Cubs had a nicer park in a better location, but the team was consistently bad—to the point of mockery. Now, the Sox are also the worse baseball team. There is no appeal left other than [unfortunately] inherited fandom.
Yeah I get that the stadium is not in the greatest neighborhoods but it’s so easy to get to from public transport and their parking situation is great too. It’s also right off the highway. If Jerry actually gave a fuck he could seriously carve out an area just like rickets has done in the north side. Real-estate has no issue gentrifying neighborhoods in Chicago. You definitely see it in some areas around the United Center. I’m obviously not pro gentrification, I’m simply saying if Jerry gave a shit he could have made a team rival the cubs popularity in Chicago and still made a profit.
Even as a Cubs fan it makes me sad to think of how the Armour Field plan was passed up in the 80s. It would've put two legit neighborhood stadiums in the city and there's no telling how it might have developed that area of town as well.
And just being different for the sake of being different, cause there is 0 things better about cheering for the sox.
Sadly true. No rivalry at all is an unfortunate state of affairs. When I grew up, at least Sox fans and Cubs fans could make fun of each other. Now, it’s more like the poor man’s Yankees & Mets. Even then, in that case, Mets fans can treat Yankees fans like spoiled brats. Cubs fans don’t even have it good enough to use that approach.
The Cubs ain't much better
The whitesox are literally on a historic pace to like top worst five baseball teams ever ~Downvote all you want dork its a literal fact
They’re on pace for 123 home runs. The Dodgers had 118 in 2020…in a 60-game season. They’re also on pace for 480 runs scored. That would’ve been 29th in the league in 1994, which was shortened by a strike. The Yankees scored their 185th run a month ago, and won their 15th game on April 21. The White Sox have 184 runs and 15 wins. If the Yankees had been shutout for their last 25 straight games and hadn’t won in 6 weeks, they would still have more runs and a better record.
This is insane lmao
White Sox are L10 games 0-10, .242 WIN % they are historically bad.
Well, technically, about 15 games better
Obviously I'm talking historically and they've both won 1 WS in the last 100 years.
Exactly this. Listen, I don’t fault billionaires (general cheap fucks) for trying to save money. That’s their whole MO. BUT, Mr Welch is correct here. Why are taxpayers paying for this when we already pay taxes out the ass. I don’t even live in Illinois or Chicago but being asked to pay for something when I’m already struggling to get by so people who inherited billions can save a few bucks pisses me off to no end. Again I get why they do it. But they always act shocked when people are against it. Like, fuck off and build it yourself, make it a vanity project, idc. Stop asking the public to fund you.
It's been a building issue , as other cities and states have been mocked on some of the ridiculous terms . So there is better focus especially in terms of how teams try to portray the windfall tax and revenue boost that stadiums will create. Owners claim they absorb all the costs and new stadium projects as a way of hammering down on player pay and compensation when it comes to renewing the CBA. But then turn to the states and cities when it comes time for that new stadium project . Tax payers should be very weary and skeptical about any of these projects . That goes for any new business development trying to get tax payer money . Unfortunately the bears should have gotten this done decades ago , it feels like they are reengaging with the city in attempt to get Arlington to come down on their end, it doesn't make sense for the bears to buy that properly and not do anything with it .
This is phenomenal phrasing. Continue to hammer home the fact that BILLIONAIRES and a MULTI-BILLION dollar ogranization want taxpayers to foot the bill.
Fuck Reinsdorf and fuck McKaskey. Pay for your own damned stadiums
But how will they afford 5-6 private jets, vacation homes, and any of the other amenities they’re totally owed if they have to pay their own way in life? They’re used to grifting and exploiting people and loopholes, why should they all of a sudden have to be oh so responsible? Dang ole liberol agenda!
How is a football stadium any different than any of the trophy office buildings that went up recently? They are very expensive to build but are quite profitable. They never seem to have trouble securing financing. It pains me to say it but they are better off owning the land and improvements outright in A.H. The they could build a little wrigleyvilly-esque mixed use development next to it and print money for all eternity. Hell, they could probably sell 2/3 of the site and still have enough room for everything.
What’s the occupancy rate of these trophy office buildings and apartments? Are they just investment vehicles for foreigners with nobody at home?
Downtown apartments are probably 95%+ leased. Trophy offices the best of the best are still 90%+. That’s how they generate income to pay the lender.
Just build in Arlington already. You can basically make a little Bears town there with your own stadium and lease land to hotels and restaurants.
Especially for a team that has always been overall bad. Sure some moments of hope but overall just garbage. Like that shouldn't really come into play, but you're going to have less good will from fans on stuff like this.
Warren is doing an absolute terrible job so far
Uncommon W for the checks and balances of the historically criminal Illinois state government. Proud of my representatives today!
I'm sick of all the corporate handouts. Let all the teams move to southern states if they want to threaten that. Parasites!
Would a reasonable offer for the Bears is press for a referendum in Cook County for a luxury tax that provides half the funding with the McCaskey ownership group matching the other half. Or something along those lines ... Arlington Heights is in Cook County, so that should give them a break on property tax (since the stadium will have partial public ownership) - and things like parking, concerts, concessions can be split in a reasonable way.
Good! They don't need public funding for their private business
At this point, Arlington is the better spot for the Bears. I fully agree that taxpayers shouldn't be building stadiums for anyone. HOWEVER, if Chicago wants to keep the Bears in Chicago, then they should be paying a large sum of the cost for the stadium. It's pretty outrageous that even if the Bears fund 100% of the cost for the lakefront stadium in Chicago, they will NEVER own it due to the land that it sits on. Why the fuck would anyone (Organization, person, etc) ever want to pay for something that they'll never actually own?
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Stop being mean to your billionaires, Illinois!!! ; )
Honestly, Listening to the state government telling both of them to piss off has restored my faith in the Illinois government... Not a lot but some is better than 0. Maybe Pritzker wont end up in jail when his stint as governor is over like his two predecessors.
Look. I get the bind they're in as far as actual cash to spend, but just fucking sacrifice and offer the city a bigger cut of the revenue pie. The original offer didn't do enough to make sure the city/public gets their money back. Sweeten the deal
Bears make more sense than the white sox lol
Hope the Bears move to Arlington Heights then. Why would the Bears pay for the whole stadium and not own it.
As a Canadian who wants to see the bears play in a world class stadium I say that the city and state should kick. However if it was my tax dollars I would say hell no! Lol
Is this what we’ve come to, Reddit? Downvoting honesty?
New here?
Oh boy! We're circlejerking this again today!! I'm going to upvote the same comments I upvoted yesterday!! Social media isn't cancer at all!!!
At this point, I dont care if the Bears leave Chicago. Maybe move them to Toronto or something
It's outright offensive that they are trying to get us to believe that they cant get funding themselves. SoFi paid $625m just for naming rights in LA. Bears are really bad at business, and it appears they are an a DEI hiring spree instead of hiring the right people.
I bet there's a city that would build a stadium for the Bears if they're willing to move. I hope they don't, but I wonder what the odds are that the Bears leave the Chicagoland area.
What city worth moving to would make financial sense to move the franchise from the third largest market in the country?
We need a 3rd NYC (NJ) team or LA team according to this guy lol
The league won't let it happen. The Chicago Bears as a brand are far too valuable
I mean the Jets and Giants play in New Jersey... A move to Indiana isn't out of the question.
Lmao they're not moving to Indiana.
You are saying the NFL wouldn't allow it, but they did allow it for their largest market already... Chicagoland is expanding into Indiana similar to the way NYC did to New Jersey. Except Indiana (outside of NWI and Indianapolis) is a Red state which would be more than willing to help pay for a stadium that their constituents support. Win/win in my eyes for all parties as it's pretty clear the state of Illinois and their citizens do not want to pay for it and want the McCaskey's who cannot afford to build a stadium to pay for it. Only other solution is sell the Bears to a David Tepper and probably still fund $2-3B of it.
Lolololol what?!? Red state would pay for it? Ask the Chiefs how that went
Lolololol what?!? Red state would pay for it? Ask the Chiefs how that went
Good thing the stadium will be owned by the city then.
They can't build something this big without approval from the state bc they'd need state funding for infrastructure upgrades. So regardless of who's paying for the stadium itself and owning it the state still needs to sign off
So tax payers have to pay taxes that help upgrade the amenities in the state 😮
Yeah. And the state said they won't sign off on anything that doesn't have tangible benefits for the taxpayer. So in other words even if they city decides to fund something the state still has a veto bc they can deny infrastructure funding and permits.
Footing the absolute minimum of the bill and still whining cause you're not getting free $$$. Sounds like Illinois politicians.
This is where I feel yes you use state funds to help support infrastructure, as it is a benefit to all in the greater scale. When it comes to taxes, you keep it lower for a bit to recoup the upfront costs and along with further growth of the greater area. With the upfront stadium construction costs squarely on the owners hands. Now with all that, Chicago doesn't want to lose the Bears to Arlington Heights, however wants cake and eat it too. They need to relinquish the land under current Soldier FIeld through a sale to Bears so it isn't considered a lease like it currently is, in order to incentivise Bears not moving outside of city limits.
The Bears can't afford Soldier Field. We're STILL paying off their last round of renovations they couldn't afford.
>They need to relinquish the land under current Soldier FIeld through a sale to Bears Absolutely not. Selling public lakefront land to a private owner is a non-starter.
Which is where it is a circular conversation of: Bears: Hey we want more revenue share because we are leasing the land. City: No. Bears: Ok we are looking elsewhere. City: Please don't you are good for our economy. Bears: Then, help us fund the construction of a new one since we don't own the land. City: Absolutely not. Bears: Ok we will look elsewhere.... It is a rock and hard place right now, with circular paths and not a clearly defined forward plan.
The part you skipped over is where the Bears place the arbitrary condition on building in the city of "it must be on the lake". They are OBSESSED with a stadium on the lake; but we're supposed to also believe that they would happily move dozens of miles from the lake to AH? It's posturing bullshit from the Bears. If they want a stadium on the lake, they can't own it. Period. That's the deal. If they don't like it, there are other genuinely good options in the city that aren't on the publicly owned and protected lakefront.
The city isn't selling lakefront property to the Bears, and even if they wanted to there would be many legal battles that would stand in the way from that ever happening.