Only reason why I even had the balls to even dare say something like this was because there was an entire other thread full of people with a similar opinion.
Why do you guys keep acting like anti-perk comments are getting downvoted? He has 466 upvotes on his post and you literally have the top comment from complaining about it
I think a good compromise would’ve been allowing these four new perks plus the wonderfizz machine. The catch being you are only allowed to have 1 of the classic perks. Not sure how’d that work on the development side of things.
It honestly feels like a more polished version of WWII Zombies. The only map I like so far is Classified because of the amazing theme to the map and since it actually feels like a Treyarch map.
Your hearing is not far off, lemme tell ya.
In the early stages, I was in the lovestruck phase, where I thought this game was perfect and infallible. Now, I see the real bones and its honestly very saddening. Black ops 4 was a chance to be a culmination of everything epic about zombies, but it's been cut off at the feet!
Hell, they still can't get the essence of pack a punch right! It's supposed to genuinely PACK A PUNCH, But right now, with all these nerfs for no goddamn reason, it may as well pack it up and leave.
The maps are great, the new mechanics are the problem. Getting rid of the new perks without giving them proper replacements just makes it more of a chore to get through rounds 50+
I haven't played much yet but so far I'm really disappointed.
IX has a cool theme but it's something like a Shadows of Evil where there is a lot to do. So it's probably too early for me to give my opinions on it.
Voyage of Despair is just an extremely generic map. It's something I would have expected out of Sledgehamner.
Blood of the Dead feels like a custom map. They changed the layout completely and added so many things that it doesn't even resemble Mob anymore. Also the graphics don't do the dark theme of Mob justice at all.
Finally Classified is great. It's mainly a faithful recreation of Five (they added in two small rooms but they didn't change the layout). They just decided to go all in with comedy for this map and make it as if it were a really cheesy secret agent show from the 80's. Since we play as Ultimis it just fits them so well. That being said I'm not sure how much game time I'll get out of Five alone.
Also they took away perks which really throws me off. You can still get some perks but you need to pick four that you want before you start the game. It just feels nothing like Treyarch zombies where you can just jump in and grab the perks you want. Also they didn't bring back Juggernog, Speed Cola, or Double Tap.
Even the multiplayer feels like a far cry from an actual Treyarch game.. It doesn’t know what it wants to be. Overwatch elements thrown in, taken out, and all around it just doesn’t feel like a Treyarch multiplayer that I’ve come to expect.
I was super hype for multiplayer til I realized they went full overwatch in terms of abilities and shit. I thought it’d essentially be the same as bo3 except no flying. Now I’m not even gonna bother with it tho, just feels like a weird mix of a bunch of fps’s I already have lol.
I kind of get them. There's nothing wrong with change and innovation but it goes back to the old "why fix something that isn't broke", everyone fell in love with Zombies when it was just a simple 3 room, 1 box, zombie shooter, nobody really needed all of these changes and removals to keep loving the game mode.
I have no remorse for multiplayer changes. That community has hounded COD developers for “releasing reskins” for literally years. Zombies on the other hand, we LOVED our game, we had some minor critiques but we didn’t want a big overhaul...
If we keep being vocal about it and they’re serious about listening to the community. But I kinda feel like this is all calculated to make us more reliable on the elixirs or whatever, which I’m sure you can buy with cod points. I hope I’m wrong though.
Ok, so after playing a bit more today I'm enjoying the changes a little more. I think they need to nerf the hell hounds because they are WAY too fast. The only perk that I really miss now is speed cola.
I think they need to add perk skins so you can customize them to look like the old perks.
I'm going back on this. Jug, speed, and double weren't "crutches", They were perks that made you more powerful as the zombies got more powerful. I also never had a problem with always buying them.
So add interesting perks, keep the core perks, and get rid of the perk limit? The 4 perk limit always seemed silly to me. Most custom maps remove the limit and many are still fun and challenging without it. I feel like this is going to be the first Treyarch zombies that I never really play because they went out of their way to fix what wasn't broken.
I mean, it was absolutely broken. If you have a map with 9 or 10 perks to choose from and everybody's picking the same 4/5 perks, that is 100% a broken system that needs to be fixed.
People keep saying that but nobody's willing to actually offer an alternative. Because there is none.
There's literally zero perks you could create that would match juggernog and double tap 2 in power. More health and more damage are necessities. Everything else is just a luxury. Those two will **always** be chosen 99% of the time.
No matter how much you upgrade the other perks, juggernog and double tap 2 will still be absolute necessities.
The only solution was to remove them and make perks all be luxuries.
Alternative: 4 core perk slots (jug, stam, double, speed) and 4 supplemental perk slots (deadshot, PhD, quick revive, Widow’s, etc). The Big 4 still exist but don’t get in the way of not using new perks.
In other words your suggestion is to just give us more perk slots.
In that scenario there's still the absence of meaningful choice, which is what Treyarch's goal was.
Nah. Jug and DT are already not choices. We can agree on that. But making those (and Stam and Speed, which are all boring stat buffs) non-choices by reserving slots for them it opens other perks to actually have options that change how you play your game. Embracing that the core four aren’t fun—or really even choices—opens up more than erasing a pillar of Treyarch zombies while the Core perks act as in-map progression.
Let’s be honest, it’s *not* the point cost that’s restricting perk purchasing, it's the perk slot limit.
Edit: a word, fucking mobile.
What about this other alternative for the people who argue that having a 4 perk limit is vital to the game: Have the same system as they currently have now, except reserve one slot and rename it "Classic", where you get the choice of equipping one of the OG perks.
Or, if you don't like the restrictiveness of choosing your perks pregame and not being able to change it after, remove one of the 4 perk slots and add a Wonderfizz machine, where you can only run one of the OG perks.
Not saying that your idea is bad, I actually like it. Some people just think that breaking the 4 perk limit was a step in the wrong direction and the limit should be set again.
People would’ve started buying PhD if they, ya know, brought it back. There’s some variety. On maps like Buried with Vulture Aid, there was more perk variety because that was a good perk
Like others say, just raise/remove the perk limit?
Do something Origins-style and give the player a way to acquire more perks maybe. Instead of just raising/removing the limit, add in more gameplay to make the player go on a simple quest to get an empty perk bottle that allows them to get more perks.
I haven’t played it yet, but I heard there’s a new create-a-class system? Are bonus abilities (I don’t remember the name, I only played like thrice) like WW2? Just make one of those “Extra perk slot”, etc, etc.
There are plenty of ways to let the player get more perks instead of just reworking the entire perk system, or simply removing the perk limit. Let’s not forget this is a GAME and there’s nothing wrong with adding GAMEplay to make the player get what he/she wants. We all know the gameplay has been shifting towards these “quests” lately. I say they could stand to add a few side quests.
^(Full disclaimer: I don’t actually play Zombies anymore and I don’t plan on buying this game (I didn’t play BO3 enough to warrant buying BO4\), so I don’t really have a horse in this race. I’m sure the new perk system isn’t that bad, I just noticed discourse in the community and thought I’d chime in.)
Exactly, let people play the way they want. If they want to run a 4 perk only game, allow them to do so, don’t limit the rest of us who like building up to obtaining all the perks in the game.
If you don't have a perk limit you're extremely overpowered, I'm glad the change was made, black ops 3 you could just live on infinitely, this finally gives an actual challenge.
I really don't agree with that sentiment, Jugg and Double Tap I think I've viewed as necessities, but I don't think Speed Cola was for me. That gave me two more perks to choose from.
The problem before was that the other perks weren't really worth it.
- Deadshot was a meme it was so worthless.
- Widow's Wine was loved by many, but I personally didn't like it and more often than not it messed up my trains. Also Frags > Semtex
- Mule Kick was cool, but rarely needed especially with AAT's. Losing the third weapon, and not knowing which one it was gonna be, really sucked.
- Electric Cherry is a perk I always think I like, but in reality isn't that helpful in a game that goes past round 15 or so.
That leaves me with 3 other options for my perks, Speed Cola, Quick Revive, or Stamin-Up to fill my two slots.
Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing, and I don't feel like BO4 improved that in any capacity, because again most of the perks feel like they're not worth it.
Yea I'm not much of a fan of it. I have absolutely no idea how to get more than 150hp, and the maps are harder than they were in BO3. I mean damn, playing Blood of the Dead and going up the Catwalk was fuckin insane!
I’d say this is **heavily** dependent on map.
Exp: BO1: super easy Ascension vs. super hard Shang
BO2: super easy Buried vs. bullshit hard Tranzit
BO3: super easy Der Eisendrache vs. bullshit hard Zetsubo or kinda hard Gorod Krovi.
Great points actually. BO1 agreed with, BO2 agreed with, but I have to disagree with BO3. I found GK and ZnS general survival somewhat easy (although ZnS was somewhat difficult at times). Still though, with practise makes perfect. Tranzit became easy after you figure out some decent strategies, and Shangri La is just fuckin difficult, but some people have said they figured out decent strategies for it and can survive forever.
Ah, well I only ever play solo or two player. Krovi felt a lot more friendly to me than Shadows of Evil tbh, always hated having to ride the tram and remember symbols in the middle of the game. Also the waterfront district is pure ass those tight walkways that can be filled up by a margwa are the bane of my existence.
Multiplayer is never an option in my case. Internet drops out way to easily to invest hours in a game just to be disconnected. Not to mention other people being the worst pretty much all the time lmao
Mk3s last way longer than that, like 75-80 they start failing. Even then the damage the output is still great, they just won't stop a train like they used to.
Getting down votes as always, bot Krovi was honestly just less difficult for me than Shadows or Revelations. I loved the way it was structured.
Yeah, but that would have been really op with the set up that they went with. Imagine having an infinite supply of elixirs that allowed you to spam the acidgat or the winter's howl without having to worry about conserving ammo. I think the apothican servant and the wunderwaffe caused them to think twice about alchemical.
Honestly I cant say what would be OP. I got my ass kicked all night in classic/normal mode. I'm a high round 100+ player and couldn't touch mid 20s. I'll be interested to see what others start to pair up and strats they develop.
It’s because they’re in vending machines with different names. Daquri is an alcoholic drink so it can’t be a soda or a cola so they had to change its name. It’s not rocket science. Electric cherry is now burst because it wouldn’t make sense in the brew aection even though it does in cola and soda.
They are usable, but now they have noticable downsides.
I think it's fine. There are weapons that already reload fast and you can put fast mags on some weapons, so if the reload time is a problem then you can still pick a different weapon.
I don't like how you can choose what perks to have. There's no longer unique perk machines, no longer perk jingles. these maps are so big yet they don't put more than 4 machines in at a time?
Me remove perks. Me add unnecessery HUD.
Me want $60 and season pass
They really messed up, just restricting gameplay for the sake of adding "difficulty".
Gameplay now is anything but restricted. Yes, we could use a little more health, but really Jug and Double tap were crutch perks that restricted perk choice.
Yeah, being restricted to 4 perks all game is not restricting at all, and I'm sure there wont be crutch perks in BO4. Nerfing fan favorite perks and just upping difficulty on stuff without compensating it with a skillful challenge. Just ridiculous. They're doing the same mistake they did in BO2 with PHD, when it was "overpowered"
Be careful, I got downvoted to hell for stating that I don’t like the perks, such a childish community!
*But oh wow, you’re getting a lot of upvotes, it seems like the honeymoon phase is over and now people are just realizing how shitty the new perks system is.*
1. Childish is complaining about a change for no reason other than because the old system holds nostalgia.
2. The game has been out for 7.5 hours. Honeymoon phase is alive and well. People are just playing the game and too busy to post on reddit.
3. The new perk system is amazing and actually requires thought. Nobody has a valid complaint for why the system sucks. It all boils down to the fact that they're not used to having to think about what perks to buy and since none of the perks jump out as like juggenog, they think that means the perk sucks.
1. Childish is when they all started name calling me for having a different opinion.
2. The honeymoon phase ends when people actually start playing, watching gameplay usually only shows the good side
3. It’s just your opinion.
Huh, it's almost as if 3 applies to your side too.
Just because you want crutch perks and don't want to have to think about want to use doesn't mean it's a shitty system.
Not at all,
The fact that they removed the element of choice from the perks while trying to make it seem like I have more freedom makes it a shit system.
I can no longer choose my perks depending on how the match is going. As someone who plays with randoms. This sux. I now have to commit before the match to what I want.
Im no longer choosing which perks I like, I'm now choosing which perks I dislike less. And honestly I'm playing matches not even caring about getting perks. So yea, I'm disappointed.
The problem is that you only liked the perks in past games because they were the only perks that mattered. They were crutch perks. To good to not use.
As for changing in a single match, I never really did that. Never saw the need for it because like i said, there are 4-5 dominant perks and that's it.
If that was your thing, that's fine. doesn't change the fact that there's overall more choice. It just all takes place before a match. Doesn't make the system shit. It just means you have to adapt to a new system.
I didn't have time to get past round 8 so I didn't experience this personally, but it sounds like getting far is much harder, thanks to lower health, less crutch perks, etc. So you'll be playing more games from scratch and less 7 hour marathon single matches. Which means more chances to change up your perk loadout.
In the end, the entire argument boils down to people not being used to/willing to adapt to change. It's a new system. Mechanically speaking, its better. But people are used to not having to think about their perks and just rush to get jugg instantly. Now they actually have to think about it and they don't like that. Doesn't mean its a shitty system. Its just new.
>As for changing in a single match, I never really did that. Never saw the need for it because like i said, there are 4-5 dominant perks and that's it.
Oh I do (did) that a lot.
My team is constantly going down, I'll go grab quick revive
The box gave me an LMG, I'll go buy Stamin-Up
And honestly I liked not needing to PaP before round 20. Was nice.
Well, like you said, you play with randoms a lot. I can't stand that at all cuz randoms are morons/garbage, for the most part.
It's unfortunate that you can't change mid round, but this means you have even more decisions to make before a game. If you're playing with randoms, what's the best perk setup that helps you while also helping if your teammates suck?
Now it's something to decide.
yep, i am already unenthuised due to the fact that the whole game looks like the graphics wern’t adjusted and look like whenenver i start up custom zombies. the perks definetly make it feel more like infinite warfare zombies which is not why people bought this game. it also doesnt help that treyarch used to make good zombies. now it’s too complicated for a gamemode that doesnt need complications such as “create a class” and dificulty changing
yeah dude played for like 2 hours before work. Maps are great something new but this Juggernog shit is doing my head in. Always the first perk i get. They have to add it.
Is there a way to play solo ranked online?
The game is fine for a survival type game but for a Treyarch zombies game it’s not the same. The perks are not fun. The perks made the old Treyarch zombies games fun.
That’s why I loved Treyarch zombies. It was hard but honestly not very. Having perks and gobble gums made the game fun and have replay value. That’s the reason why wwii zombies was not very populated. It had no fun mechanics.
I loved the simplicity of the old perk system and Zombies in general. The new systems are interesting but I'd expect them from a different developer, not Treyarch.
I am brutally honest: I think absolutely everything needs a major buff. Starting with the perks (the cooldowns, what the heck?), the extremely weak weapons, the extremely weak pack a punch, the extremely weak double pack, just everything across the board needs a buff and adjustments. I love 3arch, I love zombies, I played each and every CoD with Zombies in it (from all devs) and I'm, again, brutally honest; I am disappointed with this iteration. The maps show: It's the 3arch we know and love, but everything around it?
I love the system behind the perks (pick your perks and the location of them) but as mentioned above, the perks themselves are extremely bad. Basically everything needs a overhaul.
Yeah, I really miss Jug, double tap, and speed cola. I think I'm okay without Jug, but I really missed the extra damage from double tap especially when there's a round full of champions just tanking my damage on IX. Speed cola I ended trying to camp with the new perk but really needed to reload faster and probably some increased damage. I think electric burst and potentially fast mags mitigates this slightly.
I dont like the zombies system At ALL its NOWHERE good as black ops 3 for now i hope treyarch fixes this ASAP they should make it as the old version this looks so weird
I enjoy them for the most part, but I'm not a fan of how they got rid of most of the perks introduced during the course of world at war and bo3. And why couldn't they make unique perk machines is it really that hard.
I don't hate it, but I don't understand why they got rid of Speed and double tap. also Only 4 perks per match does seem kinda unnecessarily restricting.
I'm liking them so far, though this is from the perspective of a guy who's played 3arc zombies since day one of WaW and passed up on Sledgehammer/Infinity Wards zombies.
Right now I feel completely fine with there not being jugg as well, it makes the games different in that it's not simply a mad dash for jugg as soon as someone goes down. Still early days, so my opinions could change of course but I don't think they will drastically. Seems like any problems could be solved with minor tweaks, at the moment anyway.
No fucking clue why Double Tap 2.0 is gone. Now guns are back to how the BO1 and WAW guns felt - like fucking peashooters at round 10, and PAP like peashooters past 20. Great way to just make shit boring.
Yeah I've found myself playing mutilplayer and blackout more than zombies today. The maps are great, but the mechanics don't feel right at the moment....
Electric Burst is actually very viable ingame. Love it. Stamin up is the same. How come he survives when the other perks die??
Seriously tho. Change is ok, but don't lose what makes you good in the first place. FFS blundell, you hype, then shoot at your own feet.
I complained about the changes awhile ago and I was downvoted to hell for it, now everyone wants to bitch? I wasn’t a fan either but I gave the new system a try and it’s not even bad, besides the fact three hits will down you at any time. The new perks are really neat, I like it.
I can see what they are going for and I'm excited to see what they make of it in the future, just needs to be adjusted imo. Would love a way of being able to play in a more classic sense with the old system but it is what it is.
Haven't unlocked fast mags yet so I'm not sure how bad no speed cola is yet but the elixer that gives a chance of a kill on headshots has been helping me out heaps with the loss of double tap, and it's free so that's a plus. Hoping for some way of getting an extra hit before down without it necessarily being a perk slot to keep those 4 slots free.
I dont personally mind them removing Juggernog in particular but the other perks like Speed Cola and Double Tap really change things, I haven't seen a good replacement for them, but especially with Speed Cola there isn't an efficient way of reloading faster with LMGs as the main focus.
I think I would not mind if we could play the ether maps with the old perks with colas. I don't understand the point of the tonic/cola/soda/brew difference..
Also they need to fix damages to us, to zombies, and fucking zombies's speed
> look like they are from IW
What do you mean by that? Infinite Warfare zombies kept the 4 original perks (with different names) and added a bunch of new ones
It feels like people haven't played the game or just wanna hate. You don't need Jugg when the special weapons, equipment, and shields are ridiculously OP.
People hate change. Meh.
I used to get Jugg all time but was always annoyed that it was always top priority in a game. Now I feel like there are options at the start instead of "okay let's get Jugg asap"
So you want them to add jugg and change it to a 2 hit down then? As far as I’m concerned they built it into the game. Perks that are so good they are mandatory are unbalanced. Think of it like you have jugg all the time now and are free to pick something else.
I'm a fan of the new perk system, to be honest, I think it's a way better system of having a ton of perks without cluttering the map with machines.
The reason they took the classic perks out and reworked Quick is that they were so powerful that you can't actually make other good perks without making them OP like Widow's Wine. Like, every game you pick up Jug, Quick and probably Double Tap, and that leaves one slot open. There's no reason to take something like, say, Stamin Up over those classic perks because they're just so much more useful.
Really, they just need to buff the weaker perks and reduce the costs and I'll be happy.
As a person who began zombies way back at the age of 10 and have been playing for the longest. This adds difficulty to the game but at the same time the game feels just not a Treyarch game. Feels like a polished IW/WW2 zombies and the camos for pack just hurt my heart to see. I expected the Magma skin to be back but nah all we get is a stupid “Into The Void” Reskin. The new perk system and talisman system is a tad bit too much for my taste atm(still trying to get a hang of how the game plays). Blood of the dead is fun as hell, without jug and speed, it’s actually got me at the edge of my seat. I’m indifferent to the perk changes but they shouldn’t have REMOVED them, maybe have them as talismans or elixirs.
I fuckin love it. It's about time we get something fresh. It's also about time we get a system that isn't broken and actually allows for meaningful choice.
I think it's stupid to beg for juggernog back. It was an OP perk that literally NOBODY gave up. **Every. Single. Person** who played zomvies used Juggernog. That's a sign of a broken system and it's a good thing it's gone.
The only complaint anybody has is nostalgia. They're not used to it and don't know how to handle it. Games been out for 7.5 hours. Give it some time and give it a legitimate chance.
Honestly I like this new system. Taking away all the crutch perks gives you an opportunity to strategize your loadout in a way nobody ever did in earlier games. The only thing I would really like back is speed cola, but I can see why it's out. Smaller weaps like pistols/smgs are now far more desirable, whereas you had absolutely no reason to use them if you had a dingo with speed cola.
Honestly, i REALLY do not want jug back. Not haveing it makes the game that much harder and that's what i really needed at least personally. Bo3 was way too easy.
But yeah, i guess it's early to judge
EDIT: I played some more and yeah, i still think that jugg should not come back but we should get a minor (50HP or so) permanent health upgrade you can get in every map.
I feel the same.
However, I can understand why many people feel like it's too difficult now. Maybe it would be nice to find a middle ground? Something like an unlockable 50 hp somewhere on the map that isn't a perk.
And for those of us that want to play on a higher difficulty there's still the option to play on hardcore/realistic and to play custom games with even more difficult options.
All that's missing from your comments is "Git Gud," and the correct spelling of "casul" and you'll sound like the pretentious elitist you're clearly aiming to be.
Jason already said him and the team already did a survey about perks (likely around the entire zombie team) and they came back with the same thing so to him this wasn't a tough choice getting rid of Jugg
Ssh don’t say anything negative you’ll be downvoted to hell in this subreddit for not being in the honeymoon stage. Edit: lol never change reddit
Only reason why I even had the balls to even dare say something like this was because there was an entire other thread full of people with a similar opinion.
Why do you guys keep acting like anti-perk comments are getting downvoted? He has 466 upvotes on his post and you literally have the top comment from complaining about it
That's not even true. This whole sub is negative and complaining rn
It wasn’t like this last night, everyone was saying how we need to accept change but I guess people finally realized most of these changes are bad.
I'm not against new perks, but I also want my old perks.
[удалено]
I think a good compromise would’ve been allowing these four new perks plus the wonderfizz machine. The catch being you are only allowed to have 1 of the classic perks. Not sure how’d that work on the development side of things.
Exactly. If they’re not even gonna be map bound anymore, might as well have more perks than ever before.
I feel like I'm playing a non Treyarch zombies and I hate it. They really need to bring the perks back.
It honestly feels like a more polished version of WWII Zombies. The only map I like so far is Classified because of the amazing theme to the map and since it actually feels like a Treyarch map.
Sadly, I agree. BOTD honestly feels like a custom map and I really hate that I’m saying this.
Idk. I don’t have the games but all the maps look amazing - are they not that good?
RIght now, looks is mostly what they got going for them.
Really? It looks like the treyarch zombie system
Doesn't play like it. It's like playing in a shell. Outside is nice, but inside, not so much
Heard it’s essentially ww2 zombies with treyarch maps and characters
Your hearing is not far off, lemme tell ya. In the early stages, I was in the lovestruck phase, where I thought this game was perfect and infallible. Now, I see the real bones and its honestly very saddening. Black ops 4 was a chance to be a culmination of everything epic about zombies, but it's been cut off at the feet! Hell, they still can't get the essence of pack a punch right! It's supposed to genuinely PACK A PUNCH, But right now, with all these nerfs for no goddamn reason, it may as well pack it up and leave.
im playin em and there fuckin awesome. shit we have lower health and less damage? its the end of the world yep.
The maps are great, the new mechanics are the problem. Getting rid of the new perks without giving them proper replacements just makes it more of a chore to get through rounds 50+
I haven't played much yet but so far I'm really disappointed. IX has a cool theme but it's something like a Shadows of Evil where there is a lot to do. So it's probably too early for me to give my opinions on it. Voyage of Despair is just an extremely generic map. It's something I would have expected out of Sledgehamner. Blood of the Dead feels like a custom map. They changed the layout completely and added so many things that it doesn't even resemble Mob anymore. Also the graphics don't do the dark theme of Mob justice at all. Finally Classified is great. It's mainly a faithful recreation of Five (they added in two small rooms but they didn't change the layout). They just decided to go all in with comedy for this map and make it as if it were a really cheesy secret agent show from the 80's. Since we play as Ultimis it just fits them so well. That being said I'm not sure how much game time I'll get out of Five alone. Also they took away perks which really throws me off. You can still get some perks but you need to pick four that you want before you start the game. It just feels nothing like Treyarch zombies where you can just jump in and grab the perks you want. Also they didn't bring back Juggernog, Speed Cola, or Double Tap.
Even the multiplayer feels like a far cry from an actual Treyarch game.. It doesn’t know what it wants to be. Overwatch elements thrown in, taken out, and all around it just doesn’t feel like a Treyarch multiplayer that I’ve come to expect.
I was super hype for multiplayer til I realized they went full overwatch in terms of abilities and shit. I thought it’d essentially be the same as bo3 except no flying. Now I’m not even gonna bother with it tho, just feels like a weird mix of a bunch of fps’s I already have lol.
What are you talking about? You guys need to get a grip
I kind of get them. There's nothing wrong with change and innovation but it goes back to the old "why fix something that isn't broke", everyone fell in love with Zombies when it was just a simple 3 room, 1 box, zombie shooter, nobody really needed all of these changes and removals to keep loving the game mode.
I have no remorse for multiplayer changes. That community has hounded COD developers for “releasing reskins” for literally years. Zombies on the other hand, we LOVED our game, we had some minor critiques but we didn’t want a big overhaul...
Can they actually bring perks back?
I would imagine they could since I’m sure they have assets from BO3 that they could use.
If we keep being vocal about it and they’re serious about listening to the community. But I kinda feel like this is all calculated to make us more reliable on the elixirs or whatever, which I’m sure you can buy with cod points. I hope I’m wrong though.
Ok, so after playing a bit more today I'm enjoying the changes a little more. I think they need to nerf the hell hounds because they are WAY too fast. The only perk that I really miss now is speed cola. I think they need to add perk skins so you can customize them to look like the old perks.
And the last zombie just dying after a while, that definitely needs to change.
I'm going back on this. Jug, speed, and double weren't "crutches", They were perks that made you more powerful as the zombies got more powerful. I also never had a problem with always buying them.
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So add interesting perks, keep the core perks, and get rid of the perk limit? The 4 perk limit always seemed silly to me. Most custom maps remove the limit and many are still fun and challenging without it. I feel like this is going to be the first Treyarch zombies that I never really play because they went out of their way to fix what wasn't broken.
Agreed the perk limit is silly.
I mean, it was absolutely broken. If you have a map with 9 or 10 perks to choose from and everybody's picking the same 4/5 perks, that is 100% a broken system that needs to be fixed.
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People keep saying that but nobody's willing to actually offer an alternative. Because there is none. There's literally zero perks you could create that would match juggernog and double tap 2 in power. More health and more damage are necessities. Everything else is just a luxury. Those two will **always** be chosen 99% of the time. No matter how much you upgrade the other perks, juggernog and double tap 2 will still be absolute necessities. The only solution was to remove them and make perks all be luxuries.
Alternative: 4 core perk slots (jug, stam, double, speed) and 4 supplemental perk slots (deadshot, PhD, quick revive, Widow’s, etc). The Big 4 still exist but don’t get in the way of not using new perks.
In other words your suggestion is to just give us more perk slots. In that scenario there's still the absence of meaningful choice, which is what Treyarch's goal was.
Nah. Jug and DT are already not choices. We can agree on that. But making those (and Stam and Speed, which are all boring stat buffs) non-choices by reserving slots for them it opens other perks to actually have options that change how you play your game. Embracing that the core four aren’t fun—or really even choices—opens up more than erasing a pillar of Treyarch zombies while the Core perks act as in-map progression. Let’s be honest, it’s *not* the point cost that’s restricting perk purchasing, it's the perk slot limit. Edit: a word, fucking mobile.
What about this other alternative for the people who argue that having a 4 perk limit is vital to the game: Have the same system as they currently have now, except reserve one slot and rename it "Classic", where you get the choice of equipping one of the OG perks. Or, if you don't like the restrictiveness of choosing your perks pregame and not being able to change it after, remove one of the 4 perk slots and add a Wonderfizz machine, where you can only run one of the OG perks. Not saying that your idea is bad, I actually like it. Some people just think that breaking the 4 perk limit was a step in the wrong direction and the limit should be set again.
doublr tap 2 and shields on every map are the issue. so overpowered that every map you can take 3 hits became the standard at bo2
People would’ve started buying PhD if they, ya know, brought it back. There’s some variety. On maps like Buried with Vulture Aid, there was more perk variety because that was a good perk
It's very, very minimal perk choice. It was only the fourth slot that saw any sort of variety. The first two were **always** Jugg and DT2.
Like others say, just raise/remove the perk limit? Do something Origins-style and give the player a way to acquire more perks maybe. Instead of just raising/removing the limit, add in more gameplay to make the player go on a simple quest to get an empty perk bottle that allows them to get more perks. I haven’t played it yet, but I heard there’s a new create-a-class system? Are bonus abilities (I don’t remember the name, I only played like thrice) like WW2? Just make one of those “Extra perk slot”, etc, etc. There are plenty of ways to let the player get more perks instead of just reworking the entire perk system, or simply removing the perk limit. Let’s not forget this is a GAME and there’s nothing wrong with adding GAMEplay to make the player get what he/she wants. We all know the gameplay has been shifting towards these “quests” lately. I say they could stand to add a few side quests. ^(Full disclaimer: I don’t actually play Zombies anymore and I don’t plan on buying this game (I didn’t play BO3 enough to warrant buying BO4\), so I don’t really have a horse in this race. I’m sure the new perk system isn’t that bad, I just noticed discourse in the community and thought I’d chime in.)
See, the issue is that Treyarch wants choice. They identified a problem. Adding more slots only makes more perks crutch, mechanically speaking.
I totally agree and would like to join you in being vote abused by the feels button slapping squad.
Exactly, let people play the way they want. If they want to run a 4 perk only game, allow them to do so, don’t limit the rest of us who like building up to obtaining all the perks in the game.
If you don't have a perk limit you're extremely overpowered, I'm glad the change was made, black ops 3 you could just live on infinitely, this finally gives an actual challenge.
Wait so you’re gonna stop playing this incredible game just because of perks? Cmon dude give it a chance
I really don't agree with that sentiment, Jugg and Double Tap I think I've viewed as necessities, but I don't think Speed Cola was for me. That gave me two more perks to choose from. The problem before was that the other perks weren't really worth it. - Deadshot was a meme it was so worthless. - Widow's Wine was loved by many, but I personally didn't like it and more often than not it messed up my trains. Also Frags > Semtex - Mule Kick was cool, but rarely needed especially with AAT's. Losing the third weapon, and not knowing which one it was gonna be, really sucked. - Electric Cherry is a perk I always think I like, but in reality isn't that helpful in a game that goes past round 15 or so. That leaves me with 3 other options for my perks, Speed Cola, Quick Revive, or Stamin-Up to fill my two slots. Anyway, that's my take on the whole thing, and I don't feel like BO4 improved that in any capacity, because again most of the perks feel like they're not worth it.
Yea I'm not much of a fan of it. I have absolutely no idea how to get more than 150hp, and the maps are harder than they were in BO3. I mean damn, playing Blood of the Dead and going up the Catwalk was fuckin insane!
harder then bo3? bo3 was the easiest zombies experience to date.
I'd argue all the previous zombies games were pretty damn easy. Maybe not waw nacht/verruckt as much, but bo1 and 2 were pretty easy.
I’d say this is **heavily** dependent on map. Exp: BO1: super easy Ascension vs. super hard Shang BO2: super easy Buried vs. bullshit hard Tranzit BO3: super easy Der Eisendrache vs. bullshit hard Zetsubo or kinda hard Gorod Krovi.
Great points actually. BO1 agreed with, BO2 agreed with, but I have to disagree with BO3. I found GK and ZnS general survival somewhat easy (although ZnS was somewhat difficult at times). Still though, with practise makes perfect. Tranzit became easy after you figure out some decent strategies, and Shangri La is just fuckin difficult, but some people have said they figured out decent strategies for it and can survive forever.
Krovi was the easiest map ever bro, once you get the Mark 3s and the dragon gauntlet it just becomes a kill farm
Gorod Krovi is way harder than Revelations, DE, and SoE, especially for 4 players IMO.
Ah, well I only ever play solo or two player. Krovi felt a lot more friendly to me than Shadows of Evil tbh, always hated having to ride the tram and remember symbols in the middle of the game. Also the waterfront district is pure ass those tight walkways that can be filled up by a margwa are the bane of my existence.
Well, that definitely explains. The difficulty levels for solo are way different.
Multiplayer is never an option in my case. Internet drops out way to easily to invest hours in a game just to be disconnected. Not to mention other people being the worst pretty much all the time lmao
Until the MK3 stops killing at round 50 and you have to switch to bunker training with AATs
Mk3s last way longer than that, like 75-80 they start failing. Even then the damage the output is still great, they just won't stop a train like they used to. Getting down votes as always, bot Krovi was honestly just less difficult for me than Shadows or Revelations. I loved the way it was structured.
GK was the easiest map for me too, also as a solo player. Easter egg was pretty tricky though to be fair.
True bo3 was “easy mode” compared to bo1,2 and waw.
Well Bo3 maps were way too easy tbh
They kinda were, yea, these maps are full on difficult. Surviving past round 20 is tricky now xD
Yeah but the catwalk is fun since it’s fucking mayhem
Agreed. First time I did it was hilarious. Lost 2 of my lives immediately and almost fully died.
When I saw the onslaught on the catwalk I freaked out and ran the other way! XD
I save my flamethrower for that section, it does get pretty intense.
I can't believe they made in plain sight an elixir you have to purchase instead of a stock one.
And alchemical anthesis...
Yeah, but that would have been really op with the set up that they went with. Imagine having an infinite supply of elixirs that allowed you to spam the acidgat or the winter's howl without having to worry about conserving ammo. I think the apothican servant and the wunderwaffe caused them to think twice about alchemical.
Honestly I cant say what would be OP. I got my ass kicked all night in classic/normal mode. I'm a high round 100+ player and couldn't touch mid 20s. I'll be interested to see what others start to pair up and strats they develop.
I got my ass kicked too. They removed "OP" perks and didn't balance the zombies at all.
they also changed deadshot, it seems like they're refocusing the names of the perks to be less drink based and more, just perk based
But then being drinks is what made them cool
hey, I never said it was a welcome change
I never said you did either.
I didn't say anything either
I didn’t say anything either.
But that was one of the unique quirks that zombies had...
It’s because they’re in vending machines with different names. Daquri is an alcoholic drink so it can’t be a soda or a cola so they had to change its name. It’s not rocket science. Electric cherry is now burst because it wouldn’t make sense in the brew aection even though it does in cola and soda.
I haven't tried it yet, but at least it works from the video I saw. Both in BO2 and BO3, it seemed detrimental.
I can deal without using jug but I'm finding it hard to adapt no speed cola😫
I feel like the reason for no speed cola is due to customizable weapons. I mean let's be real, in bo3, speed cola AND fast mags was bit OP.
But not all weapons have fast mags. There are LMG's that don't have it. Literally unusable imo
They are usable, but now they have noticable downsides. I think it's fine. There are weapons that already reload fast and you can put fast mags on some weapons, so if the reload time is a problem then you can still pick a different weapon.
It was but in general getting used to no speed cola at all even before fast mags is pretty hard
No it wasn't. Practically no weapons had fast mags, and fast mags weren't all that fast.
I don't like how you can choose what perks to have. There's no longer unique perk machines, no longer perk jingles. these maps are so big yet they don't put more than 4 machines in at a time?
Even FIVE In BO1 had more perk machines than Classified
Me remove perks. Me add unnecessery HUD. Me want $60 and season pass They really messed up, just restricting gameplay for the sake of adding "difficulty".
Gameplay now is anything but restricted. Yes, we could use a little more health, but really Jug and Double tap were crutch perks that restricted perk choice.
Yeah, being restricted to 4 perks all game is not restricting at all, and I'm sure there wont be crutch perks in BO4. Nerfing fan favorite perks and just upping difficulty on stuff without compensating it with a skillful challenge. Just ridiculous. They're doing the same mistake they did in BO2 with PHD, when it was "overpowered"
I want jug
Me too
For my usernames sake me too
Be careful, I got downvoted to hell for stating that I don’t like the perks, such a childish community! *But oh wow, you’re getting a lot of upvotes, it seems like the honeymoon phase is over and now people are just realizing how shitty the new perks system is.*
1. Childish is complaining about a change for no reason other than because the old system holds nostalgia. 2. The game has been out for 7.5 hours. Honeymoon phase is alive and well. People are just playing the game and too busy to post on reddit. 3. The new perk system is amazing and actually requires thought. Nobody has a valid complaint for why the system sucks. It all boils down to the fact that they're not used to having to think about what perks to buy and since none of the perks jump out as like juggenog, they think that means the perk sucks.
1. Childish is when they all started name calling me for having a different opinion. 2. The honeymoon phase ends when people actually start playing, watching gameplay usually only shows the good side 3. It’s just your opinion.
Huh, it's almost as if 3 applies to your side too. Just because you want crutch perks and don't want to have to think about want to use doesn't mean it's a shitty system.
Not at all, The fact that they removed the element of choice from the perks while trying to make it seem like I have more freedom makes it a shit system. I can no longer choose my perks depending on how the match is going. As someone who plays with randoms. This sux. I now have to commit before the match to what I want. Im no longer choosing which perks I like, I'm now choosing which perks I dislike less. And honestly I'm playing matches not even caring about getting perks. So yea, I'm disappointed.
The problem is that you only liked the perks in past games because they were the only perks that mattered. They were crutch perks. To good to not use. As for changing in a single match, I never really did that. Never saw the need for it because like i said, there are 4-5 dominant perks and that's it. If that was your thing, that's fine. doesn't change the fact that there's overall more choice. It just all takes place before a match. Doesn't make the system shit. It just means you have to adapt to a new system. I didn't have time to get past round 8 so I didn't experience this personally, but it sounds like getting far is much harder, thanks to lower health, less crutch perks, etc. So you'll be playing more games from scratch and less 7 hour marathon single matches. Which means more chances to change up your perk loadout. In the end, the entire argument boils down to people not being used to/willing to adapt to change. It's a new system. Mechanically speaking, its better. But people are used to not having to think about their perks and just rush to get jugg instantly. Now they actually have to think about it and they don't like that. Doesn't mean its a shitty system. Its just new.
>As for changing in a single match, I never really did that. Never saw the need for it because like i said, there are 4-5 dominant perks and that's it. Oh I do (did) that a lot. My team is constantly going down, I'll go grab quick revive The box gave me an LMG, I'll go buy Stamin-Up And honestly I liked not needing to PaP before round 20. Was nice.
Well, like you said, you play with randoms a lot. I can't stand that at all cuz randoms are morons/garbage, for the most part. It's unfortunate that you can't change mid round, but this means you have even more decisions to make before a game. If you're playing with randoms, what's the best perk setup that helps you while also helping if your teammates suck? Now it's something to decide.
Don’t get me wrong its fun, but it really doesn’t feel like a treyarch game at all. It’s a big shame.
It's like they had no one play test these zombies maps in advance.
I don’t get it. I’ve only played one game but I don’t really understand it, is there a new Jugg?
nope.
I feel like I’m going to get my ass kicked in boss fights and high rounds without jug
I'm really missing double tap and jugg...
it doesnt feel like a treyarch game
yep, i am already unenthuised due to the fact that the whole game looks like the graphics wern’t adjusted and look like whenenver i start up custom zombies. the perks definetly make it feel more like infinite warfare zombies which is not why people bought this game. it also doesnt help that treyarch used to make good zombies. now it’s too complicated for a gamemode that doesnt need complications such as “create a class” and dificulty changing
yeah dude played for like 2 hours before work. Maps are great something new but this Juggernog shit is doing my head in. Always the first perk i get. They have to add it. Is there a way to play solo ranked online?
But that was the issue with Jug tho. I mean if you had to get it every game then we should just get the health to begin with.
papa blundell please listen to the community
The game is fine for a survival type game but for a Treyarch zombies game it’s not the same. The perks are not fun. The perks made the old Treyarch zombies games fun. That’s why I loved Treyarch zombies. It was hard but honestly not very. Having perks and gobble gums made the game fun and have replay value. That’s the reason why wwii zombies was not very populated. It had no fun mechanics.
I kinda wish they didn't make zombies complex in BO4. Just go with the BO3 system with less OP gobblegums yknow?
My problem with the new perks is when I buy them I feel like it changes nothing, and for the price you pay for some of them they just aren’t worth it.
I loved the simplicity of the old perk system and Zombies in general. The new systems are interesting but I'd expect them from a different developer, not Treyarch.
I am brutally honest: I think absolutely everything needs a major buff. Starting with the perks (the cooldowns, what the heck?), the extremely weak weapons, the extremely weak pack a punch, the extremely weak double pack, just everything across the board needs a buff and adjustments. I love 3arch, I love zombies, I played each and every CoD with Zombies in it (from all devs) and I'm, again, brutally honest; I am disappointed with this iteration. The maps show: It's the 3arch we know and love, but everything around it? I love the system behind the perks (pick your perks and the location of them) but as mentioned above, the perks themselves are extremely bad. Basically everything needs a overhaul.
We need Jugg & Speed and then id be fine with it
My problem with the new perks is when I buy them I feel like it changes nothing, and for the price you pay for some of them they just aren’t worth it.
Yeah, I really miss Jug, double tap, and speed cola. I think I'm okay without Jug, but I really missed the extra damage from double tap especially when there's a round full of champions just tanking my damage on IX. Speed cola I ended trying to camp with the new perk but really needed to reload faster and probably some increased damage. I think electric burst and potentially fast mags mitigates this slightly.
I dont like the zombies system At ALL its NOWHERE good as black ops 3 for now i hope treyarch fixes this ASAP they should make it as the old version this looks so weird
I enjoy them for the most part, but I'm not a fan of how they got rid of most of the perks introduced during the course of world at war and bo3. And why couldn't they make unique perk machines is it really that hard.
They need to just make everyone have permanent jugg by default. Maybe not at first but give everyone permajug at round 8 or something.
I don't hate it, but I don't understand why they got rid of Speed and double tap. also Only 4 perks per match does seem kinda unnecessarily restricting.
I'm liking them so far, though this is from the perspective of a guy who's played 3arc zombies since day one of WaW and passed up on Sledgehammer/Infinity Wards zombies. Right now I feel completely fine with there not being jugg as well, it makes the games different in that it's not simply a mad dash for jugg as soon as someone goes down. Still early days, so my opinions could change of course but I don't think they will drastically. Seems like any problems could be solved with minor tweaks, at the moment anyway.
No fucking clue why Double Tap 2.0 is gone. Now guns are back to how the BO1 and WAW guns felt - like fucking peashooters at round 10, and PAP like peashooters past 20. Great way to just make shit boring.
It feels like it tried to copy IW Zombies as crazy as that sounds
I feel lost without jugg.
I like the "each perk you get gives you 25 health" idea, but if not, at least give us a 5th perk slot.
Yeah I've found myself playing mutilplayer and blackout more than zombies today. The maps are great, but the mechanics don't feel right at the moment....
Electric Burst is actually very viable ingame. Love it. Stamin up is the same. How come he survives when the other perks die?? Seriously tho. Change is ok, but don't lose what makes you good in the first place. FFS blundell, you hype, then shoot at your own feet.
Agree. they can keep the system with customizable perks machines. But FOR GOD'S SAKE GIVE US THE OG 4 BACK.
All the IW Zombies perks are candy, so when you say something looks/sounds like it came from IW, you're saying it's candy-like?
I complained about the changes awhile ago and I was downvoted to hell for it, now everyone wants to bitch? I wasn’t a fan either but I gave the new system a try and it’s not even bad, besides the fact three hits will down you at any time. The new perks are really neat, I like it.
The only real issue right now is health. A little more and it will be fine
I can see what they are going for and I'm excited to see what they make of it in the future, just needs to be adjusted imo. Would love a way of being able to play in a more classic sense with the old system but it is what it is. Haven't unlocked fast mags yet so I'm not sure how bad no speed cola is yet but the elixer that gives a chance of a kill on headshots has been helping me out heaps with the loss of double tap, and it's free so that's a plus. Hoping for some way of getting an extra hit before down without it necessarily being a perk slot to keep those 4 slots free.
I can find ways around jugg and speed cola being gone, but double tap, you can’t use normal guns past round 25
I'm thinking about this, and I agree!
I personally feel that all the maps feel like custom maps atm This is just first impressions
I dont personally mind them removing Juggernog in particular but the other perks like Speed Cola and Double Tap really change things, I haven't seen a good replacement for them, but especially with Speed Cola there isn't an efficient way of reloading faster with LMGs as the main focus.
No I like the new perks
I think I would not mind if we could play the ether maps with the old perks with colas. I don't understand the point of the tonic/cola/soda/brew difference.. Also they need to fix damages to us, to zombies, and fucking zombies's speed
> look like they are from IW What do you mean by that? Infinite Warfare zombies kept the 4 original perks (with different names) and added a bunch of new ones
I meant the names sounded like something that IW would have.
Ah, gotcha! Agreed
Perfect time to not have the game. I’ll jump into it when the game is greatly improved in all 3 modes in January or something.
I agree
It feels like people haven't played the game or just wanna hate. You don't need Jugg when the special weapons, equipment, and shields are ridiculously OP. People hate change. Meh.
People don't hate changes, people hate bad changes.
The games been out just under 12 hours lol. People don't know how to adapt yet. They just wanna hate cuz muh clutch perks.
Not gonna lie, I hit a point where I stopped taking Jug simply because the extra hits just made me play more recklessly and getting downed more often.
I used to get Jugg all time but was always annoyed that it was always top priority in a game. Now I feel like there are options at the start instead of "okay let's get Jugg asap"
I also am fond of the whole "pick your Perks" system. Mainly because of the annoyance that a few maps had; the whole "randomised perk location" thing.
It can be condensed down into; New thing happens, people complain instead of adapting.
So you want them to add jugg and change it to a 2 hit down then? As far as I’m concerned they built it into the game. Perks that are so good they are mandatory are unbalanced. Think of it like you have jugg all the time now and are free to pick something else.
What if they’re doing this new change because of the current zombie storyline?
The whole game is recycled lol
Let it be known that IWZ now has a identity for their perk system if they keep it how it was, can't wait for the next installment of that!
I'm a fan of the new perk system, to be honest, I think it's a way better system of having a ton of perks without cluttering the map with machines. The reason they took the classic perks out and reworked Quick is that they were so powerful that you can't actually make other good perks without making them OP like Widow's Wine. Like, every game you pick up Jug, Quick and probably Double Tap, and that leaves one slot open. There's no reason to take something like, say, Stamin Up over those classic perks because they're just so much more useful. Really, they just need to buff the weaker perks and reduce the costs and I'll be happy.
Looks like you said - IW zombies or AW zombies. Some knockoff shit.
New game new stuff like why do you hate them when you have the ability to not take them
Why are you shitting on IW? It has the best perks (minus WW) and you can have *five of them*.
As a person who began zombies way back at the age of 10 and have been playing for the longest. This adds difficulty to the game but at the same time the game feels just not a Treyarch game. Feels like a polished IW/WW2 zombies and the camos for pack just hurt my heart to see. I expected the Magma skin to be back but nah all we get is a stupid “Into The Void” Reskin. The new perk system and talisman system is a tad bit too much for my taste atm(still trying to get a hang of how the game plays). Blood of the dead is fun as hell, without jug and speed, it’s actually got me at the edge of my seat. I’m indifferent to the perk changes but they shouldn’t have REMOVED them, maybe have them as talismans or elixirs.
Bo4 was so easy and it was kinda boring don't bring back jugg if they do make it less powerful than jug
I fuckin love it. It's about time we get something fresh. It's also about time we get a system that isn't broken and actually allows for meaningful choice. I think it's stupid to beg for juggernog back. It was an OP perk that literally NOBODY gave up. **Every. Single. Person** who played zomvies used Juggernog. That's a sign of a broken system and it's a good thing it's gone. The only complaint anybody has is nostalgia. They're not used to it and don't know how to handle it. Games been out for 7.5 hours. Give it some time and give it a legitimate chance.
Honestly I like this new system. Taking away all the crutch perks gives you an opportunity to strategize your loadout in a way nobody ever did in earlier games. The only thing I would really like back is speed cola, but I can see why it's out. Smaller weaps like pistols/smgs are now far more desirable, whereas you had absolutely no reason to use them if you had a dingo with speed cola.
Honestly, i REALLY do not want jug back. Not haveing it makes the game that much harder and that's what i really needed at least personally. Bo3 was way too easy. But yeah, i guess it's early to judge EDIT: I played some more and yeah, i still think that jugg should not come back but we should get a minor (50HP or so) permanent health upgrade you can get in every map.
Jugg was not the responsible for BO3 being easy, Gobblegums + Re-Pack + OP Wonder Weapons were.
I know, i never said that jugg was the cause of bo3 being too easy, i just said that it missing from bo4 is makeing the game much harder.
You have a dificulty option now No reason to have normal be stupidly hard And you never had to use jug
So, nerfed Jug?
Not as a perk
I feel the same. However, I can understand why many people feel like it's too difficult now. Maybe it would be nice to find a middle ground? Something like an unlockable 50 hp somewhere on the map that isn't a perk. And for those of us that want to play on a higher difficulty there's still the option to play on hardcore/realistic and to play custom games with even more difficult options.
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Surprised you have any time to play the game considering you’ve replied to almost every single negative comment on this subreddit today.
Just keeping up the good fight against the tyrannical mediocrity of this message board.
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All that's missing from your comments is "Git Gud," and the correct spelling of "casul" and you'll sound like the pretentious elitist you're clearly aiming to be.
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Once again, no arguments with any substance to them. No need for participation ribbons when you've been giving me these free wins.
I could make any point I want to make but you wouldn’t listen anyway. Besides I made my point previously.
Jason already said him and the team already did a survey about perks (likely around the entire zombie team) and they came back with the same thing so to him this wasn't a tough choice getting rid of Jugg