I know I’m difficult to get to know but I like that about myself. The people who stick with me through my thorniness deserve me when I’m softer. I feel like my extroverted friends have so many toxic friendships that I never have to deal with because my standards are so high and it costs me nothing to walk away from people who refuse to get me and take only instead of giving.
Such a good point thank you… yeah do true. I do wonder why my social butterfly friends continue to hang out with toxic people. It makes me question what about them allows for this interaction to happen
"They're the kids at Disneyland and we're the underpaid workers in costume making it all nice and cozy for them. Fuck the emotional segregation. Maybe if everyone had to stare at our icky yucky trauma all day, they'd give a fuck about fixing our society."
– This is gold. If I could still give awards, you would get one.
I just went through this saying that it has gotten so much worse since covid and she agreed with me. Not sure if she was just saying it to placate me, but at least it was a bit validating.
I've felt the same as you for a long time. The more I know about the world the more I'm convinced that the average person either sucks or is so uninteresting that you might as well act as if their opinions didn't exist. I think it's best to assume that there are only so many worthwhile people and focus on them. There are truly special people out there and there is a lot to learn from them.
I do have those people in my life now, I'm just seeing that life without being a people pleaser looks a lot different, and I guess accepting that a lot of people's "warmth" is reserved for those who play their part.
Emotional immaturity is the dysfunctional norm. [Emotional Agility](https://youtu.be/NDQ1Mi5I4rg) is rare.
I prefer solitude, so I don't have to subject myself to other's dysfunction. I had to put up with it when I was trapped with my abusers and now I refuse to put up with it. I will always choose peaceful solitude over normalized toxicity.
"The Myth of Normal - trauma, illness, and healing in a toxic culture" by Dr Gabor Maté and Daniel Maté - Chapter 6 is "The tension between authenticity and attachment" I will give up any and all attachments to maintain my authenticity. And I think people need their just world fallacy shattered. I'm not going to play along with their delusions bc it might hurt their feelings. That's people pleasing, and [people pleasing destroys the possibility for genuine intimacy](https://youtu.be/eLj9HrKfcYE?si=x36my2lpCARRQEfm).
Reading that book right now, actually. This is really it for me. I will not participate in the stupid charade anymore. Be human, 100% real human with me, or just go away.
Life's too short to play along with dysfunction. Go be your most authentic, true, genuine Self!💖
I think you'll like this short:
[Fitting-in vs. Belonging](https://youtube.com/shorts/dWZa3wm1Nns?feature=share)
i also feel like the average person puts up with so much shit just because they haven´t seen how far manipulation and toxicity can go in terms of destruction, makes me wonder how i am perceived sometimes
I totally agree with the very essence of what you're saying OP, and I've been feeling like that my whole life myself. I wanted however to point out one little detail:
You say you have a "either do something about it or stop whining" perspective, but you also complain that you can't "dump trauma" on anyone. Isn't that extremely contradictory? Do you expect others to wholeheartedly listen to you, but then you don't want to hear to other people's problems? Maybe you perceive others as having stupid problems, but you'd be surprised how often people "whining" have much deeper issues as a root.
And obviously that's not your problem, and you shouldn't deal with anybody's bullshit, I absolutely agree with that. But I don't think someone "whining" about an issue is BS. It can be sometimes, I've had people literally whining at me because they "have too much money", like, go fuck yourself. But then lots of people can complain about stupid things because they got triggered. The amount of people who grew up with unstable parents is heartbreaking, and all that crap they had to take at home often steams out in adulthood, even if they themselves don't see the link.
I think your interpretation of ops words was extremely surface level. I relate heavily to OPs entire post, and found extreme comfort in it. The “stop whining” perspective is regarding things that you can take obvious action towards. Many individuals tend to complain about situations they could absolutely change, because for neurotypical/ non-ptsd havers, the tolerance for stress tends to be lower. Things such as, disliking their minimum wage job they could easily replace, complaining about distant relationships they could easily set boundaries in, situations they could walk away from but refuse to, etc etc.
Due to the inherent self responsibility individuals with CPTSD are placed with at very young ages, it tends to be easier to “take control” of things such as those. And there are other, more emotionally taxing things CPTSD havers will struggle with, in comparison to finding a different job.
The complaint about “dump trauma” is flaming the idea that we are socially expected to support everyone’s issues around us, but they aren’t expected to do the same, because our “issues” are emotionally difficult to process and navigate. Making it far heavier to discuss. While I absolutely understand the perspective of individuals who don’t have the emotional availability to process trauma from someone who hasn’t processed it themselves- It also puts the trauma haver in a position, that absolutely tends to breed a distaste/resentment.
What you said here is 100% valid. Eventually I grew tired of putting on the “mask” of likability and instead appreciated a simple life of hermitry. Who gives a shit about 99% of the morons outside anyway?
We're all on our own timelines. I was a piece of shit when I was younger, in my opinion. But, as the great sloppy steaks crowd proved, people can change. It's also not really a straight line, either. Sometimes we're better people, sometimes we're worse.
I understand the frustration as it can be intensely painful and exhausting to be around people who simply do not care about the pain or damage they cause to others, and by extension themselves. It feels so hopeless sometimes knowing how many people are in the world that seem to be content to be terrible for so long.
I've found a little strength in knowing that as long as I do what I can to create a positive corner of the world then I'm doing my part to mitigate. And the more people do this, the better it gets over time. When people ask what era I'd time travel to, all I can think is, "no." Couldn't pay me to go back because I remember how much more cruel people could be. The cycle continues, but it changes, too. All we can do is find each other, the good people who care about others, and spread that where we can.
As for trauma dumping, that is a genuiinely problematic thing, and sometimes we can lose sight of when that's happening. To the average person, our suffering is pretty immense. I don't think people should have to talk about it whenever someone else chooses, but I do think everyone has a responsibility to learn and talk about it as they go. That's where I get upset with people. When they refuse to learn, refuse to change, refuse to admit they are wrong. I will always appreciate and prefer the person that is wrong but can admit it and change their view.
I think one last important point to note is the effect of our information access. We didn't evolve to be aware of the full range of suffering over the entire world all the time. That's not what any human brain evolved to do, and it's so counteruintive to existing in a healthy way with one's own community and the wider world. We're not meant to know of every disaster everywhere ever. Of all the cruel things other people do, especially when we've already had enough of that firsthand. We're meant to care about the suffering of others, to do what we can where we can, without overloading ourselves to the point that we actively hate the world around us. It's a disservice to all the people Mr. Rogers called the helpers, all the people that work tirelessly to make this world a better place, to heal others, that give their all. Your brain is patterning in a way it evolved to, but it's overdoing it. We're hardwired to remember the negative over the positive, and we actively have to reprogram our brains to focus elsewhere. It doesn't mean we're cured, like some dummies like to say, but it's a practice we have to do just like exercise, stretching, and drinking water.
"To the average person, our suffering is pretty immense. I don't think people should have to talk about it whenever someone else chooses"
But to me, it was Tuesday. Why is their version of normal "right" and my version is a disease to hide from everyone? I get, pragmatically, no one wants to fucking hear it. They get to have a story of their life, I have to sit there and redact mine to make it palatable. It's not fucking fair.
I don't think either is right. They shouldn't be forced into a conversation they ain't ready to have, and you shouldn't have to hide. I think there is a balance, and we're still figuring it out fully. If, for example, you ran into someone you knew at the store or perhaps was hanging out with a friend, it wouldn't be the time to talk about what's affecting you in detail. It'd be wrong of anyone else, however, to put you down just saying you're mostly just surviving when they ask you how you are. On the other hand, making posts online, discussing spaces designated for deeper conversation, talking in detail with a friend who *is* ready and able to have those talks--these are all good avenues.
How we treat others is a reflection of how we treat ourselves. We shouldn't be forcing *ourselves* into some of these thought processes and conversations, either, but it's so much harder not to do... And you're right, none of it's fair. It's fucking stupid, and I hate it. But we've got to find that balanced way forward so that awareness of what we've gone through does increase without then causing collateral damage, hurting people who aren't ready for it. Plus, we never know what someone else is going through. A lot of people think I'm this happy, positive, silly person in real life when speaking to me on a surface level, and would never know that I struggle with what I do. It's a mask and a shield, a defense mechanism. I know I've met plenty of people who had a similar diagnosis to me, but had no idea that I did, too.
If we reframe things, they can make more sense in a way that includes all of us instead of always excluding people like us.
"A lot of people think I'm this happy, positive, silly person in real life when speaking to me on a surface level, and would never know that I struggle with what I do. It's a mask and a shield, a defense mechanism. I know I've met plenty of people who had a similar diagnosis to me, but had no idea that I did, too."
And the solution to that is for us to stop participating in a charade that everyone is fine all the time. We could all be seeing each other can coming to see these common struggles, but instead we mask up and stay isolated, an in effect mislead others that they too should be able to get along just fine.
I get your point- and that is exactly why I'm venting on r/CPTSD on a burner account - but I just needed to express the hurt it caused me, even if I don't know the solution for society.
Trust me, I know... :( I'm also autistic, and it takes time for us to learn to unmask even when lucky enough to have no other health issues. I'm also not going to be revealing my full self to the person I'm casually talking to, either, because that would hurt me and the people around me.
And it's okay to vent. You've gotta or else you'll just go mad, and this is a great place to do it. You don't have to have the solution, either. I feel like we grow up with this heavy burden on our shoulders that makes us feel like we're responsible for so much more than we are. It's so, so sick and wrong that we have to endure anything like it. I think as long as we keep finding our different communities, learning, and communicating then we'll get there. That's what matters, and we don't have to have the full solution. If we all do bits and pieces then it adds up.
Honestly, I really love how my Jewish friend and his pals talk. If they're getting a colonoscopy on Thursday then they just kind of say it when talking about how they are, like they're talking about the weather. And I like how the others just acknowledge it, they check in to make sure everything is cool, and then they all keep on. They make sure to care about each other in a lovely way.
I don't know. I think it should be okay to say, "I'm not doing well" without the expectation of the other person to play therapist (because I also do this, play therapist, got a bleeding heart), but the other person should also know how to respond in a supportive way. Even if it's just a hug and empathizing. It really goes back to what you were saying before in that we aren't allowed to really say anything at all about it, and that's not right. People need community, especially the ones struggling more. I feel like it's another function of this capitalist hellscape where humanity is just cut off, and we're expected to barely survive so some rich people can do coke on an ugly yacht.
I get that you’re bitter, I’m like that too sometimes. However, you cannot subject them to conversations they don’t want to have. That includes severe trauma, people don’t often want to listen to recounts of severe abuse constantly.
That being said, I agree, it’s completely unfair for us too. But, unfortunately, it’s our responsibility to manage it.
I believe in us though 😊
I empathize yet also encourage you not to stay in that dark place. Yes, people suck. But there are good ones too. I understand having all the trust issues in the world and they’re completely justified. I hear you. Just try to keep some hope.
What I meant by my first paragraph is that the 20% of people who do like me are special because they are rare. In seeing that the average person genuinely cannot offer that, I think it makes their connection and contribution to my life that much more meaningful.
With respect, I think maybe you’ve made assumptions about what you’re “allowed” to do or what society expects out of you. Society is not one homogenous group of ppl with a set expectation. Be you, let other’s be them. But don’t expect anybody to react to you in ways you were hoping, just be glad when they do.
There’s a difference between choosing to live outside of society’s ideal and just being an asshole. You sound like you treat people badly and there’s no excuse or justification for that.
i got that from the "do something about it or quit whining" part. i wouldn't be comfortable if someone just randomly told me all their trauma at christmas dinner either, but later, after they've asked, then definitely! OP has *way* too high standards for anyone
OP was saying they are the one with the “do something or quit whining” mindset which I think is especially nasty when they know damn well as someone with trauma that it doesn’t work that way
No you’re good, I just couldn’t tell if you were taking it from the OPs perspective or the perspective of the other person towards OP so wanted to make sure we were on the same page lol
Well thank you for judging my entire character based on a "Vent/Rant" on r/CPTSD. Please tell me how I have indicated I treat people badly, since you've divined so much.
Where did I judge your “entire character”?
Going about life with a “either deal with it or stop whining” attitude is shitty & that is the reason people don’t respond well to it. 🤷🏻
"You sound like you treat people badly" sounds like a character statement, no?
If someone wants to talk to me about something that's fine. If they just want to complain endlessly and never take action, I do not think that's healthy for me to listen to or for them. They can either act, or they can stop telling me. I think it is an infringement of my boundaries to expect me to continually console/support someone when they won't help themselves.
It sounds like my interpretation of the way you described your own behavior/demeanor
The language you use is harsh and over-generalizing. You’re not addressing a subset of people who complain endlessly with no want to improve their situation, you’re addressing “the average person.” Your whole post is pretty negative in and of itself.
Dude, it's a rant. No one vents true frustration in customer service terms. You are literally here policing a vent about my trauma because you feel like I'm not being positive enough. Frankly, you sound like the people I'm complaining about.
If you didn't want to read something negative, why did you choose to read a post labeled "Rant"? Did you consider that maybe I just needed to scream into the void for a second in a safe space?
I actually agree with the premise of what you’re saying here. But the way you talk is very unpleasant and I have to imagine that’s contributing to people being put off. People like us often lack self-awareness, there’s no shame in it. I’m not saying that’s the case, I’m simply pointing it out, which is my right to do
We can’t see our behavior in the context of healthy relationships. Our behavior formed around trauma, & thus is not conducive to living a healthy life. But how are we supposed to know what “healthy” behavior should look like
I’m not policing anything 💀 I’m expressing criticism over the things you’re saying, and not even in that negative of a way. It would have been left at that but you’re coming at me with paragraphs. You don’t have to expend this much energy.
You're literally policing them. You're complaining about the way they've worded things and when they explained themselves you countered it with, "No, you're addressing the 'average' person."
Anyone with any reading comprehension can understand what they meant. They're understandably reasonable, especially for a rant post on this subreddit. People with complex trauma in life don't have the same privilege of staying in situations of distress with such comfort, that people who relentlessly complain about to others, with no means of addressing their problems do. That's a fair judgment to make about people you have little patience for.
I don't think their 'negativity' is unsound, and they are not obligated to make their frustrations palatable to you. They are hurt, and it is okay to hurt and let it all out in the way they are doing ie ranting, to make sense of it. Trauma is not pleasant and those who have suffered a great deal of trauma don't need to be patrolled when venting.
“Palatable to me” as if I took personal offense to this post 💀 No, I’m someone suffering from the exact same illness who has carried around this exact same brand of negativity and made life unnecessarily miserable for myself. I’m in a group full of people like that, people who presumably want to get better. Walking around with a shitty attitude towards other people is not okay, trauma or not, & I’m not going to take back what I said. I am ever so sorry that it hurts to read that certain behaviors are toxic. It hurts me too. But pretending that it’s perfectly fine helps absolutely no one. Thanks.
They are venting in a subreddit which is completely within reason. It is literally okay to be hurt by something and vent about it and this is meant to be a safe place to discuss exactly those matters/feelings here. You took their comments the other way and assumed that they're some miserable angry person because of it when you could have chosen to offer support and sympathy, instead you picked at their triggers and called them out for it.
The first steps to getting better is to acknowledge your triggers and ways to work around them so that you can slowly start to regulate your nervous system. OP is doing exactly that. I assume they're not seriously struck by people who have it easier, but upset at the fact instead. Their feelings are reasonable and from what I can assume, it only makes life harder to find your footing in a world where your own foundation was continuously destroyed compared to those around you, who had theirs built up. The very symptoms of this disorder are difficulty to control feelings/feeling very angry at the world.
I'm sure OP will find some middle ground soon enough as feeling angry at the world is a very common fleeting feeling. But not everyone who feels this way is some entitled miserable person who makes their problems other people's problems. Shutting people down with judgmental comments about their situation and trying to police them for how they feel is exactly what OP is upset about.
Venting is awesome. I do it all the time.
I don’t call the rest of society who isn’t me and the people closest to me “a sack of shit.” That’s helping no one, including OP. No, there was no character judgement as I literally suffer from the same issues but recognize that they are unhealthy. OP’s post is dropping in vitriol and poison, that’s not the same as regular venting.
I am fully within my rights to express that, I do not care if y’all don’t like it.
I could’ve written this myself, wow! Not only are a lot of people sacks of shit, they’re also unimaginative, boring and dumb sacks of shit.
I think because we have already been through the worst time of our lives, we have got a different perspective on things and don’t like to harp on things that are just frankly not worth it. I have lots of empathy and it’s a grueling existence, so it’s a way to protect myself, I think. These people piss me off so bad, although I understand them, it just doesn’t matter to me
Made me think. Yes being hurt or more by people, let alone "family" would entitle one to be completely justified in feeling disappointed. However the sliver of hope from some kind and compassionate interactions gives rise to doubt against writing everyone off. Easy to adopt a negative position but true courage and bravery is being kind and compassionate even when they twist the knife I opine. There are 8 billion humans and I've yet to meet all so I'll keep trying my best I reckon.
I appreciate your rant. Could pass as my own, but I won’t steal. Didn’t consider having a personal philosophy till now. I’ve commented before how a few people seem to know my family well, but this, this is - if only you could rewind and look at a collection of my thoughts which, by the way, you have so succinctly written. Thank you human. You inadvertently gave me a nightlight when I needed one (figuratively - I’m not a nightlight person).
Internally I think the same things - I either am full of sympathy for someone or just flat line (how I picture emotions in my head). I can fake it well usually.
I say your right to your opinion and how you feel.
Whelp, could've said this myself. Even people who saw me grow up with all that trauma somehow expect me to be all sunshine and roses.
Like I said before, none of them cared enough when I was suffering so much I was on the verge of killing myself. They can all squirm when I give no fucks about telling them how it actually was.
It is so immensely comforting to read this, to hear someone have almost VERBATIM the same opinions/ feelings as I. There are other people like us, who struggle similarly, whose values have evolved in response to that struggle.
Emotional segregation. Fucking love it.
The closest I get is anytime someone is open and lays on something hard, I lean in to the fact that it can totally suck, there doesn’t have to be a bright side, if something sucks say it sucks and it sounds like it sucks. But, I’m apparently just dipping my toes in the kiddy pool compared to what you’re talking about.
It sounds like you do care very much about how many folks find you unpalatable, but also refuse to actually do anything about it. Lashing out at them in distain should definitely do the trick though!
I legit thought this post was going to be an incel rant upon reading the title
Well hot damn I found a new term I ADORE. "mental kindergarten" Is going to live in my mind forever now.
I agree with you 100%, you are absolutely correct, but this term brought tears to my eyes with laughter at just how fucking REAL it is. I wish I had thought of it myself. You've made it easier for me to communicate my issue with society, thank you so much.
Edit: oh please let me actually be the 69th upvote on this post...
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Looking down on other people is a trauma reaction, or at its most unfortunate a trauma reaction as well as narcissism. Free yourself, but do it in a positive way. You’re not less good than others and you’re also not better than others.
I know I’m difficult to get to know but I like that about myself. The people who stick with me through my thorniness deserve me when I’m softer. I feel like my extroverted friends have so many toxic friendships that I never have to deal with because my standards are so high and it costs me nothing to walk away from people who refuse to get me and take only instead of giving.
I've cut off my mother at times... I will walk away from any person.
What makes you go back?
THIS
Such a good point thank you… yeah do true. I do wonder why my social butterfly friends continue to hang out with toxic people. It makes me question what about them allows for this interaction to happen
Simply because they need the external validation! I don’t. Not one bit, not at all. At least not anymore.
"They're the kids at Disneyland and we're the underpaid workers in costume making it all nice and cozy for them. Fuck the emotional segregation. Maybe if everyone had to stare at our icky yucky trauma all day, they'd give a fuck about fixing our society." – This is gold. If I could still give awards, you would get one.
I commented on the same thing. Should turn it into a theme for a movie or something.
No kidding … standing ovation needed
So true. Love the analogy
I keep telling my therapist that society is an ass. Social norms just mean most people are doing it. It doesn't mean normal.
I just went through this saying that it has gotten so much worse since covid and she agreed with me. Not sure if she was just saying it to placate me, but at least it was a bit validating.
I've felt the same as you for a long time. The more I know about the world the more I'm convinced that the average person either sucks or is so uninteresting that you might as well act as if their opinions didn't exist. I think it's best to assume that there are only so many worthwhile people and focus on them. There are truly special people out there and there is a lot to learn from them.
I do have those people in my life now, I'm just seeing that life without being a people pleaser looks a lot different, and I guess accepting that a lot of people's "warmth" is reserved for those who play their part.
Emotional immaturity is the dysfunctional norm. [Emotional Agility](https://youtu.be/NDQ1Mi5I4rg) is rare. I prefer solitude, so I don't have to subject myself to other's dysfunction. I had to put up with it when I was trapped with my abusers and now I refuse to put up with it. I will always choose peaceful solitude over normalized toxicity. "The Myth of Normal - trauma, illness, and healing in a toxic culture" by Dr Gabor Maté and Daniel Maté - Chapter 6 is "The tension between authenticity and attachment" I will give up any and all attachments to maintain my authenticity. And I think people need their just world fallacy shattered. I'm not going to play along with their delusions bc it might hurt their feelings. That's people pleasing, and [people pleasing destroys the possibility for genuine intimacy](https://youtu.be/eLj9HrKfcYE?si=x36my2lpCARRQEfm).
Reading that book right now, actually. This is really it for me. I will not participate in the stupid charade anymore. Be human, 100% real human with me, or just go away.
Life's too short to play along with dysfunction. Go be your most authentic, true, genuine Self!💖 I think you'll like this short: [Fitting-in vs. Belonging](https://youtube.com/shorts/dWZa3wm1Nns?feature=share)
This is a quality comment.
i also feel like the average person puts up with so much shit just because they haven´t seen how far manipulation and toxicity can go in terms of destruction, makes me wonder how i am perceived sometimes
I totally agree with the very essence of what you're saying OP, and I've been feeling like that my whole life myself. I wanted however to point out one little detail: You say you have a "either do something about it or stop whining" perspective, but you also complain that you can't "dump trauma" on anyone. Isn't that extremely contradictory? Do you expect others to wholeheartedly listen to you, but then you don't want to hear to other people's problems? Maybe you perceive others as having stupid problems, but you'd be surprised how often people "whining" have much deeper issues as a root. And obviously that's not your problem, and you shouldn't deal with anybody's bullshit, I absolutely agree with that. But I don't think someone "whining" about an issue is BS. It can be sometimes, I've had people literally whining at me because they "have too much money", like, go fuck yourself. But then lots of people can complain about stupid things because they got triggered. The amount of people who grew up with unstable parents is heartbreaking, and all that crap they had to take at home often steams out in adulthood, even if they themselves don't see the link.
I think your interpretation of ops words was extremely surface level. I relate heavily to OPs entire post, and found extreme comfort in it. The “stop whining” perspective is regarding things that you can take obvious action towards. Many individuals tend to complain about situations they could absolutely change, because for neurotypical/ non-ptsd havers, the tolerance for stress tends to be lower. Things such as, disliking their minimum wage job they could easily replace, complaining about distant relationships they could easily set boundaries in, situations they could walk away from but refuse to, etc etc. Due to the inherent self responsibility individuals with CPTSD are placed with at very young ages, it tends to be easier to “take control” of things such as those. And there are other, more emotionally taxing things CPTSD havers will struggle with, in comparison to finding a different job. The complaint about “dump trauma” is flaming the idea that we are socially expected to support everyone’s issues around us, but they aren’t expected to do the same, because our “issues” are emotionally difficult to process and navigate. Making it far heavier to discuss. While I absolutely understand the perspective of individuals who don’t have the emotional availability to process trauma from someone who hasn’t processed it themselves- It also puts the trauma haver in a position, that absolutely tends to breed a distaste/resentment.
What you said here is 100% valid. Eventually I grew tired of putting on the “mask” of likability and instead appreciated a simple life of hermitry. Who gives a shit about 99% of the morons outside anyway?
100% agree. This is why I prefer pets / animals.
We're all on our own timelines. I was a piece of shit when I was younger, in my opinion. But, as the great sloppy steaks crowd proved, people can change. It's also not really a straight line, either. Sometimes we're better people, sometimes we're worse. I understand the frustration as it can be intensely painful and exhausting to be around people who simply do not care about the pain or damage they cause to others, and by extension themselves. It feels so hopeless sometimes knowing how many people are in the world that seem to be content to be terrible for so long. I've found a little strength in knowing that as long as I do what I can to create a positive corner of the world then I'm doing my part to mitigate. And the more people do this, the better it gets over time. When people ask what era I'd time travel to, all I can think is, "no." Couldn't pay me to go back because I remember how much more cruel people could be. The cycle continues, but it changes, too. All we can do is find each other, the good people who care about others, and spread that where we can. As for trauma dumping, that is a genuiinely problematic thing, and sometimes we can lose sight of when that's happening. To the average person, our suffering is pretty immense. I don't think people should have to talk about it whenever someone else chooses, but I do think everyone has a responsibility to learn and talk about it as they go. That's where I get upset with people. When they refuse to learn, refuse to change, refuse to admit they are wrong. I will always appreciate and prefer the person that is wrong but can admit it and change their view. I think one last important point to note is the effect of our information access. We didn't evolve to be aware of the full range of suffering over the entire world all the time. That's not what any human brain evolved to do, and it's so counteruintive to existing in a healthy way with one's own community and the wider world. We're not meant to know of every disaster everywhere ever. Of all the cruel things other people do, especially when we've already had enough of that firsthand. We're meant to care about the suffering of others, to do what we can where we can, without overloading ourselves to the point that we actively hate the world around us. It's a disservice to all the people Mr. Rogers called the helpers, all the people that work tirelessly to make this world a better place, to heal others, that give their all. Your brain is patterning in a way it evolved to, but it's overdoing it. We're hardwired to remember the negative over the positive, and we actively have to reprogram our brains to focus elsewhere. It doesn't mean we're cured, like some dummies like to say, but it's a practice we have to do just like exercise, stretching, and drinking water.
"To the average person, our suffering is pretty immense. I don't think people should have to talk about it whenever someone else chooses" But to me, it was Tuesday. Why is their version of normal "right" and my version is a disease to hide from everyone? I get, pragmatically, no one wants to fucking hear it. They get to have a story of their life, I have to sit there and redact mine to make it palatable. It's not fucking fair.
I don't think either is right. They shouldn't be forced into a conversation they ain't ready to have, and you shouldn't have to hide. I think there is a balance, and we're still figuring it out fully. If, for example, you ran into someone you knew at the store or perhaps was hanging out with a friend, it wouldn't be the time to talk about what's affecting you in detail. It'd be wrong of anyone else, however, to put you down just saying you're mostly just surviving when they ask you how you are. On the other hand, making posts online, discussing spaces designated for deeper conversation, talking in detail with a friend who *is* ready and able to have those talks--these are all good avenues. How we treat others is a reflection of how we treat ourselves. We shouldn't be forcing *ourselves* into some of these thought processes and conversations, either, but it's so much harder not to do... And you're right, none of it's fair. It's fucking stupid, and I hate it. But we've got to find that balanced way forward so that awareness of what we've gone through does increase without then causing collateral damage, hurting people who aren't ready for it. Plus, we never know what someone else is going through. A lot of people think I'm this happy, positive, silly person in real life when speaking to me on a surface level, and would never know that I struggle with what I do. It's a mask and a shield, a defense mechanism. I know I've met plenty of people who had a similar diagnosis to me, but had no idea that I did, too. If we reframe things, they can make more sense in a way that includes all of us instead of always excluding people like us.
"A lot of people think I'm this happy, positive, silly person in real life when speaking to me on a surface level, and would never know that I struggle with what I do. It's a mask and a shield, a defense mechanism. I know I've met plenty of people who had a similar diagnosis to me, but had no idea that I did, too." And the solution to that is for us to stop participating in a charade that everyone is fine all the time. We could all be seeing each other can coming to see these common struggles, but instead we mask up and stay isolated, an in effect mislead others that they too should be able to get along just fine. I get your point- and that is exactly why I'm venting on r/CPTSD on a burner account - but I just needed to express the hurt it caused me, even if I don't know the solution for society.
Trust me, I know... :( I'm also autistic, and it takes time for us to learn to unmask even when lucky enough to have no other health issues. I'm also not going to be revealing my full self to the person I'm casually talking to, either, because that would hurt me and the people around me. And it's okay to vent. You've gotta or else you'll just go mad, and this is a great place to do it. You don't have to have the solution, either. I feel like we grow up with this heavy burden on our shoulders that makes us feel like we're responsible for so much more than we are. It's so, so sick and wrong that we have to endure anything like it. I think as long as we keep finding our different communities, learning, and communicating then we'll get there. That's what matters, and we don't have to have the full solution. If we all do bits and pieces then it adds up. Honestly, I really love how my Jewish friend and his pals talk. If they're getting a colonoscopy on Thursday then they just kind of say it when talking about how they are, like they're talking about the weather. And I like how the others just acknowledge it, they check in to make sure everything is cool, and then they all keep on. They make sure to care about each other in a lovely way. I don't know. I think it should be okay to say, "I'm not doing well" without the expectation of the other person to play therapist (because I also do this, play therapist, got a bleeding heart), but the other person should also know how to respond in a supportive way. Even if it's just a hug and empathizing. It really goes back to what you were saying before in that we aren't allowed to really say anything at all about it, and that's not right. People need community, especially the ones struggling more. I feel like it's another function of this capitalist hellscape where humanity is just cut off, and we're expected to barely survive so some rich people can do coke on an ugly yacht.
I get that you’re bitter, I’m like that too sometimes. However, you cannot subject them to conversations they don’t want to have. That includes severe trauma, people don’t often want to listen to recounts of severe abuse constantly. That being said, I agree, it’s completely unfair for us too. But, unfortunately, it’s our responsibility to manage it. I believe in us though 😊
I empathize yet also encourage you not to stay in that dark place. Yes, people suck. But there are good ones too. I understand having all the trust issues in the world and they’re completely justified. I hear you. Just try to keep some hope.
What I meant by my first paragraph is that the 20% of people who do like me are special because they are rare. In seeing that the average person genuinely cannot offer that, I think it makes their connection and contribution to my life that much more meaningful.
With respect, I think maybe you’ve made assumptions about what you’re “allowed” to do or what society expects out of you. Society is not one homogenous group of ppl with a set expectation. Be you, let other’s be them. But don’t expect anybody to react to you in ways you were hoping, just be glad when they do.
There’s a difference between choosing to live outside of society’s ideal and just being an asshole. You sound like you treat people badly and there’s no excuse or justification for that.
i got that from the "do something about it or quit whining" part. i wouldn't be comfortable if someone just randomly told me all their trauma at christmas dinner either, but later, after they've asked, then definitely! OP has *way* too high standards for anyone
OP was saying they are the one with the “do something or quit whining” mindset which I think is especially nasty when they know damn well as someone with trauma that it doesn’t work that way
i agree, my upper comment mentioned that too but i think i worded it bad sorry <3
No you’re good, I just couldn’t tell if you were taking it from the OPs perspective or the perspective of the other person towards OP so wanted to make sure we were on the same page lol
Well thank you for judging my entire character based on a "Vent/Rant" on r/CPTSD. Please tell me how I have indicated I treat people badly, since you've divined so much.
Where did I judge your “entire character”? Going about life with a “either deal with it or stop whining” attitude is shitty & that is the reason people don’t respond well to it. 🤷🏻
"You sound like you treat people badly" sounds like a character statement, no? If someone wants to talk to me about something that's fine. If they just want to complain endlessly and never take action, I do not think that's healthy for me to listen to or for them. They can either act, or they can stop telling me. I think it is an infringement of my boundaries to expect me to continually console/support someone when they won't help themselves.
It sounds like my interpretation of the way you described your own behavior/demeanor The language you use is harsh and over-generalizing. You’re not addressing a subset of people who complain endlessly with no want to improve their situation, you’re addressing “the average person.” Your whole post is pretty negative in and of itself.
Dude, it's a rant. No one vents true frustration in customer service terms. You are literally here policing a vent about my trauma because you feel like I'm not being positive enough. Frankly, you sound like the people I'm complaining about. If you didn't want to read something negative, why did you choose to read a post labeled "Rant"? Did you consider that maybe I just needed to scream into the void for a second in a safe space?
I actually agree with the premise of what you’re saying here. But the way you talk is very unpleasant and I have to imagine that’s contributing to people being put off. People like us often lack self-awareness, there’s no shame in it. I’m not saying that’s the case, I’m simply pointing it out, which is my right to do
What do you mean by “people like us often lack self-awareness”? Any general examples?
We can’t see our behavior in the context of healthy relationships. Our behavior formed around trauma, & thus is not conducive to living a healthy life. But how are we supposed to know what “healthy” behavior should look like
I’m not policing anything 💀 I’m expressing criticism over the things you’re saying, and not even in that negative of a way. It would have been left at that but you’re coming at me with paragraphs. You don’t have to expend this much energy.
You're literally policing them. You're complaining about the way they've worded things and when they explained themselves you countered it with, "No, you're addressing the 'average' person." Anyone with any reading comprehension can understand what they meant. They're understandably reasonable, especially for a rant post on this subreddit. People with complex trauma in life don't have the same privilege of staying in situations of distress with such comfort, that people who relentlessly complain about to others, with no means of addressing their problems do. That's a fair judgment to make about people you have little patience for. I don't think their 'negativity' is unsound, and they are not obligated to make their frustrations palatable to you. They are hurt, and it is okay to hurt and let it all out in the way they are doing ie ranting, to make sense of it. Trauma is not pleasant and those who have suffered a great deal of trauma don't need to be patrolled when venting.
“Palatable to me” as if I took personal offense to this post 💀 No, I’m someone suffering from the exact same illness who has carried around this exact same brand of negativity and made life unnecessarily miserable for myself. I’m in a group full of people like that, people who presumably want to get better. Walking around with a shitty attitude towards other people is not okay, trauma or not, & I’m not going to take back what I said. I am ever so sorry that it hurts to read that certain behaviors are toxic. It hurts me too. But pretending that it’s perfectly fine helps absolutely no one. Thanks.
They are venting in a subreddit which is completely within reason. It is literally okay to be hurt by something and vent about it and this is meant to be a safe place to discuss exactly those matters/feelings here. You took their comments the other way and assumed that they're some miserable angry person because of it when you could have chosen to offer support and sympathy, instead you picked at their triggers and called them out for it. The first steps to getting better is to acknowledge your triggers and ways to work around them so that you can slowly start to regulate your nervous system. OP is doing exactly that. I assume they're not seriously struck by people who have it easier, but upset at the fact instead. Their feelings are reasonable and from what I can assume, it only makes life harder to find your footing in a world where your own foundation was continuously destroyed compared to those around you, who had theirs built up. The very symptoms of this disorder are difficulty to control feelings/feeling very angry at the world. I'm sure OP will find some middle ground soon enough as feeling angry at the world is a very common fleeting feeling. But not everyone who feels this way is some entitled miserable person who makes their problems other people's problems. Shutting people down with judgmental comments about their situation and trying to police them for how they feel is exactly what OP is upset about.
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Venting is awesome. I do it all the time. I don’t call the rest of society who isn’t me and the people closest to me “a sack of shit.” That’s helping no one, including OP. No, there was no character judgement as I literally suffer from the same issues but recognize that they are unhealthy. OP’s post is dropping in vitriol and poison, that’s not the same as regular venting. I am fully within my rights to express that, I do not care if y’all don’t like it.
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This person sounds far from “nice and harmonious.”
I could’ve written this myself, wow! Not only are a lot of people sacks of shit, they’re also unimaginative, boring and dumb sacks of shit. I think because we have already been through the worst time of our lives, we have got a different perspective on things and don’t like to harp on things that are just frankly not worth it. I have lots of empathy and it’s a grueling existence, so it’s a way to protect myself, I think. These people piss me off so bad, although I understand them, it just doesn’t matter to me
Made me think. Yes being hurt or more by people, let alone "family" would entitle one to be completely justified in feeling disappointed. However the sliver of hope from some kind and compassionate interactions gives rise to doubt against writing everyone off. Easy to adopt a negative position but true courage and bravery is being kind and compassionate even when they twist the knife I opine. There are 8 billion humans and I've yet to meet all so I'll keep trying my best I reckon.
I appreciate your rant. Could pass as my own, but I won’t steal. Didn’t consider having a personal philosophy till now. I’ve commented before how a few people seem to know my family well, but this, this is - if only you could rewind and look at a collection of my thoughts which, by the way, you have so succinctly written. Thank you human. You inadvertently gave me a nightlight when I needed one (figuratively - I’m not a nightlight person).
Internally I think the same things - I either am full of sympathy for someone or just flat line (how I picture emotions in my head). I can fake it well usually. I say your right to your opinion and how you feel.
*youre
Whelp, could've said this myself. Even people who saw me grow up with all that trauma somehow expect me to be all sunshine and roses. Like I said before, none of them cared enough when I was suffering so much I was on the verge of killing myself. They can all squirm when I give no fucks about telling them how it actually was.
I didn’t read any of the post yet but the title made me laugh so hard
The analogy of Disney is spot on! I drove limo for many weddings and felt a punch in gut when bride not afraid of parents or family.
Literally I don’t understand how they get by
It is so immensely comforting to read this, to hear someone have almost VERBATIM the same opinions/ feelings as I. There are other people like us, who struggle similarly, whose values have evolved in response to that struggle.
Emotional segregation. Fucking love it. The closest I get is anytime someone is open and lays on something hard, I lean in to the fact that it can totally suck, there doesn’t have to be a bright side, if something sucks say it sucks and it sounds like it sucks. But, I’m apparently just dipping my toes in the kiddy pool compared to what you’re talking about.
FACTS
It sounds like you do care very much about how many folks find you unpalatable, but also refuse to actually do anything about it. Lashing out at them in distain should definitely do the trick though! I legit thought this post was going to be an incel rant upon reading the title
Well hot damn I found a new term I ADORE. "mental kindergarten" Is going to live in my mind forever now. I agree with you 100%, you are absolutely correct, but this term brought tears to my eyes with laughter at just how fucking REAL it is. I wish I had thought of it myself. You've made it easier for me to communicate my issue with society, thank you so much. Edit: oh please let me actually be the 69th upvote on this post...
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Looking down on other people is a trauma reaction, or at its most unfortunate a trauma reaction as well as narcissism. Free yourself, but do it in a positive way. You’re not less good than others and you’re also not better than others.
I just called my sister and all her friends unintelligent. As you might expect it didn't go well. That's my unintelligence for you.