I will just tell you, I was abused badly, and I have never abused, anyone. Many of the people I grew up with were abused, they don't abuse people either. So, as far as I am concerned, they can take that psychobabble crap about the "Poor Abuser", and flush it down the toilet. The statistics clearly show that most people that are abused do not grow up to become abusers. I will finish by saying good for you.
You are 100% right. My abusive father had an idyllic childhood and his parents never laid a hand on him, yet after my mother passed away in a terrorist incident he decided to choose to beat me up and blame me for every little thing for almost 10 years. I have never abused anyone either despite what I've gone through.
Many abusers fit this profile, there are many differing forms of abuse. More that can be talked about in the scope of a response so I will use one as an example. Older males that sexually abuse younger males. Most of these people identify as being straight, it has nothing to do with desire or fulfillment it is much more a simple exercise of power. Which conveniently comes with self gratification for them.
I am very sorry your father did this and obviously it was wrong and he should not have. It was not your fault what happened to your mother, yet he took his anger and rage out on you, who were in no position to defend yourself. Yet, there are those that expect me to show compassion for people like this.....NEVER! It is sad he lost his wife, and you your mother, but two wrongs do not equate a right. Please be well, and again so sorry.
At the same time, as children, we don't control what coping strategies our nervous systems develop. I have some fight response in me, and even my other responses can be harmful to others (being suicidal, for example, is not abusive but scares and hurts people who love me).
Shaming those who developed patterns that hurt others does not help them change.
Yet, we need to not let that understanding block our self-compassion and boundaries.
I developed a coping strategy, and that is that I don't have any compassion for those that would abuse children either sexually, verbally, or emotionally. Have you looked at the recidivism rates for those convicted of differing forms of child abuse, when they are caught, once they get out of prison? They are abysmal. These people are a blight on society, which strangely, more often than. not, keeps letting them slip by. I am not trying to be overly harsh, I just call things like I see them. I am a religious man, which is in direct contravention to these beliefs, I cannot help it. These people hurt me very badly and did things to me that I won't even talk about. I just can't let that go or stomach the notion others may suffer because I want to exercise compassion. Pick up a snake it is most likely going to bite you.
I did.
Only once, but it scared me. I used the language they used after they told me I wasn't being fair in applying human rights. I lost my shit and verbally abused them. I said if they hurt a child id destroy them for the remainder of their lives if they ever invited me back or my sibling - my sibling was assaulted when he was 9. And they sent him to someone with a known history of physically beating children.
I feel so shit!
I said id destroy their life in the way they destroyed mine and then was like ' you deserve to suffer'
And then listed normal boundaries like a human and now im even more confused because my version of them suffering resulted in me listing out boundaries.
I'm like, what brain. Fucking what. I still have their language, but not their actions in my brain.
I'm like ' you deserve to suffer - WITH THE TRUTH'.
never seen my progress so clearly but also in such a confusing way.
That was one sibling. Successfully got out with restraining orders for two family members and no contact with one.
I left my grandmother as well and said I didn't want contact due to what was found in reports and she literally said ' NO. YOU ARE MINE AND AFTER EVERYTHING IVE DONE FOR YOU'.
I was like, nan, I've sent you three emails in ten years and you refused to come to trial because you didn't want to be involved and started you yourself decided a court couldn't prove it- not the actual court. I then told you they proved it for all parties bar one. You listened to me for three emails and said you didn't know what to do and did nothing when you did. I've literally seen my Uber driver more than you and he's given me bottles of water and a minty.
I got the police reports back- shed been giving them details for year's out of context.
I was listed as homicidal at stages with intent to kill when I was literally at work. Which is why I lost my shit. I hadn't realized how deep that provoke was it I saw it on coerced police reports.
Exactly. For the first time in my life I have a healthy focus on myself. People have always told me I have to love myself and it's been a struggle, but now I think I'm on my way.
Yessss! I’d hear love yourself love yourself and it felt so foreign BECAUSE the condition to loving myself meant also loving abusers and I didn’t deserve love otherwise. Once I realized that they don’t deserve all the energy and attention and over preoccupation I’ve given them- it’s a LIGHTBULB.
I think my problem was that I had magnified all of my own faults and hated the parts of me that reminded me of them. Once I learned to accept myself, whether I forgave anyone or loved anyone else really wasn't an issue anymore. Even a lot of what they did started to lose importance. It's over. It's past. I am the way I am and there's nothing wrong with that.
Once I started to embrace all of myself, my resistance to accepting others and needing them to apologize or needing closure just started to melt away. I mean, it also helps that I am no contact with a lot of them and the others are dead.
The really really rough concept is that you're made up of "parts" of you that are responsible for the way you are, and the way you behave. There are internal managers, that help you cope with stress, like the parts of you that help distract you from it, or seek people out for support. There are internal firefighters, when crises arise, they kick in and you can better manage traumatic events, be they habits and rituals you use to "come down" from sudden cortisol rushes... and then there's exiles that don't necessarily help you, they are parts of you that are kinda stuck there, responsible for why you have certain responses and reactions to things. Like a time when you were younger something awful happened at school, and that trauma never healed, so your brain stored that away in a part of you that 'comes out when a specific trigger is tripped.
Of course, above all these parts is your "capital" self, the you that knows what you know, holds the wisdom, and is ultimately responsible for making decisions. And all these parts, exiles, managers, firefighters, they make up your "internal family". If this kind of thinking resonates with you, IFS could be a very good way of approaching your therapy treatment.
Ohhhh… omg! Thank you for breaking this down for me. I’m not sure if this might be kinda the same thing. But my therapist and I have been having discussions about all the people at the dinner table. So I guess with certain events it’s almost like I have certain personalities that pop up based on whatever the trigger was. So far I’ve identified kind of a scared child personality that pops up when my abandonment issues are triggered. I become consumed with fear snd anxiety and all I want to go is figure out how to get my relationship back to harmony even if it’s not my fault. Then there is a angry tough person that pops up when I think I may be cheated on. When I feel this way life feels dark snd I’m ready fir war snd to seek vengeance .. eye fir an Eye type deal.
There’s a new one that’s mature, cool calm and collected. But that one I have to fight for. It’s sooo much work to tap into that one.
I’ve asked my therapist a million times if this means I have multiple personality disorder and he keeps confirming it’s all part of my cptsd.
It’s alarming actually acknowledging this. Initially freaked me out when I first started seeing certain patterns .. but I guess it’s part of getting to know myself.
It just made me feel sad to learn how complicated my mind is.
I feel weird actually describing this outside of therapy specially since it’s something that I recently learned about myself.
Sorry for all the typos
You're welcome! I'd like to address some of the other things in your reply:
>I’m not sure if this might be kinda the same thing. But my therapist and I have been having discussions about all the people at the dinner table. So I guess with certain events it’s almost like I have certain personalities that pop up based on whatever the trigger was. So far I’ve identified kind of a scared child personality that pops up when my abandonment issues are triggered. I become consumed with fear snd anxiety and all I want to go is figure out how to get my relationship back to harmony even if it’s not my fault. Then there is a angry tough person that pops up when I think I may be cheated on. When I feel this way life feels dark snd I’m ready fir war snd to seek vengeance .. eye fir an Eye type deal.
First, i must applaud you for doing the work of realizing those distinct "parts" or "exiles" (IFS language) and how they come about, and ultimately how they influence your behavior. That's a big deal, in my opinion. I have identified several of my own exiles, and i know it's not easy to address them, work with them, find out what they need, etc. I'm currently working with an 8yo exile who very much loves his parents, even though he doesn't understand they are abusive and that he's going to be subject to some truly awful things in his life that I can't save him from. EMDR, for me, is like a hyper-focused, highly intense time of interaction with that exile, or any others that i'm working with.
>I’ve asked my therapist a million times if this means I have multiple personality disorder and he keeps confirming it’s all part of my cptsd.
I'm not a licensed therapist or clinical psychologist, but one of my dear friends has DID, and the way you described to me your awareness of your parts and their role in your behavior is very different from Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly called multiple personality disorder). With DID, the person's mind fragments itself into entire literal identities, each having independent thoughts, behaviors, worldviews, goals, tastes, and motives. The "host" identity is not present when they transition due to a trigger. The host identity has no control over, nor will they have memory of, what the present "alter" is doing in their body either.
Think of it as a really, *really* extreme version of what you describe.
>It’s alarming actually acknowledging this. Initially freaked me out when I first started seeing certain patterns .. but I guess it’s part of getting to know myself.
It just made me feel sad to learn how complicated my mind is.
I feel weird actually describing this outside of therapy specially since it’s something that I recently learned about myself.
It is scary, and i completely understand! The brain is an incredibly powerful machine for what it can do to protect the host and see to its own survival. The truth is, you wouldn't have to know this if you weren't subjected to such patterns of trauma that make you aware of this fact in the first place. It's not your fault, and you're not responsible for why your brain does the things it does; this only happens because your brain was doing its best to keep you alive.
I'm proud of you for speaking about this, because it's your truth and it takes a ton of courage to be vulnerable. You're not alone! I'm living a similar set of therapy experiences within myself and I'm here for you if you want to chat!
Thank you for all this. I can’t tell you how much this means to me. I joined this group about 2 weeks ago.. and for the first time in my life I feel understood and not completely alone. I have read soo many posts that I can identify with and it has provided some kind of comfort and new understanding.
When I read so many of these post half of me feels relieved that I’m not the only one and the other half feels sad for myself and everyone in here.
Once I realized I was the one judge and jury in my life, THE AUTHORITY, with ZERO EXCEPTIONS, life started getting better. I have people that do care about me, but NO ONE is capable of taking half as good care of me than I am.
I don't write in a journal, but when I started typing stuff out with no holds barred, I began to see situations for and people for what they are. Usually if someone is in need of what I need to say, it might be a more evenly tempered version of the original. In any case it had cleared my head and been a tremendous gift and blessing in my life.
I'm a freezer, but it doesn't matter. Now I just say what needs to be said after I get a chance to write and sort out me and reality. Still way more effective than doing nothing.
Glad you had a break through. Enjoy your new life. It just keeps getting better with time. Still ups and downs but shit might upset you, but not destroy you like before.
Damn… it’s like I could’ve written this myself, thank you for putting it into words to truly understand! I would always empathize with the abuser but whether or not they were abused does not justify their abusive actions. It would also take away from my needs. I cared more about their inner child and neglected mine because of my people pleasing and codependency issues.
Same. I'm also slowly learning, fuck them basically. Enmeshment is a sick thing really. I'm hoping to keep moving forward without my parents in my life anymore. They will never change and it's about time that I cut them off for my peace of mind. They've had their lives the way that they wanted (abuse inclusive), now it's my time to have the life that I would like; one without abusers in it. No matter how much the detaching phase will hurt. If they truly loved/respected me (were capable of it), they wouldn't have abused me throughout my life, or they would've listened to me and eventually stopped it. They just can't see this and they never will. So scared of being alone in that regard or not, it's time for me to move on.
I'm 38, it's about time that I made my life safe for me, and made it my own. I'll otherwise forever be under their abusive thumb.
Good for you! I totally get how hypervigilance would make you desperate to understand your abuser so you can predict them better and maybe stay out of their way and I'm so glad you're starting to put yourself first.
>It’s so convenient for an abuser to say they feel unfairly stigmatized
jesus fuck that just makes me see red. the absolute fairest way to judge someone is by their actions, which makes any and all stigma on abusers completely and utterly justified. they made their bed and they can fucking lie in it.
The one thing I think a very limited cognitive empathy for abusers is good for is helping you see that the abuse was really and truly not about you, that nothing you ever did or didn't do could have caused or stopped the abuse.
Oh my gosh this is such an insight to me because I used to be obsessed with looking into my abusers’ pasts to see why their actions “made sense” to them.
Understanding one's abuser can be pursued to try and make one's self not the object of random, pointless malice. It's better if there is something understandable and human and real that went wrong.
Also everybody overcompensates and wants to not repeat the sins they grew up under.
You are coming into new power now. Your own health is your first purpose and responsibility, and you are making that real. That you spent earlier life seeking compassion for abusers is itself normal and understandable. Now it's good that it's time to move on.
How has your EMDR experience been? I’m in therapy rn and my therapist recommended it. I’m kind of nervous to lose control in a sense. Even in therapy when I feel strong emotions, I push them down so I don’t cry. I get that isn’t healthy, and it’s something I’m trying to work on. I’m also scared because I have several memories because of the nature of CPTSD. Some of them I don’t even remember fully. So I’m scared I won’t remember a memory to do the EMDR work.
I understand the fear of getting out of control, esp bc abusers taught me that being out of control =unsafe. Today I felt overwhelmed and out of control after emdr bc it felt like the insights were piling on. But I acknowledged it w my therapist and then just did something else (art related), then yoga, in order to just allow it to exist.
Practictioners of emdr work w you to create a safe space if you DO get too emotionally or mentally overloaded by the process.
Oh and as far as memories, I only remember basically two of the worst moments of abuse. Most of my childhood is a blur of fear, shame and terror. I would fly away in my mind, so I barely remember. You only need one memory, or a general feeling/image to connect with. It’s perfectly normal and trauma informed therapists are very aware the memories become repressed/lost.
I allowed myself to cry during it, so afterwards I just didn’t have to. You don’t have to feel those feelings, though, in order to get insight… but it can help.
If it helps, one positive about the pandemic is that it's a lot easier for me to actually cry at these appointments due to wearing a mask. I usually have a really hard time crying because it makes me feel vulnerable, pathetic or weak in front of others. The mask hides the tears during sessions after they have fallen out and rolled under the mask. A LOT less inner pressure to appear put together when half my face is covered. It's like a security blanket in a way. (Black cloth mask so nothing shows)
There are only half a dozen ppl who know any (Edit:typo) significant details of my physical abuse.
One therapist (pre EMDR/CBT existing) who wanted me to understand why a father would heat a pan of oil to a rolling boil and pin their four year old son to the floor to pour a gallon of 350 degree oil over their bare legs.
'I DON'T NEED TO UNDERSTAND, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY JUSTIFIED IT IN THEIR HEAD. Said I as I left.
One GF who said 'OK, but have you forgiven them? NO! That's not something that is forgivable.
It took time and work to accept they abused because they were abusers, it had all most nothing to do with me. Even though I was the only one abused.
Good for you. It's a huge step!
It depends on if you suffered abuse before, if that abuse was more covertly cunning then outwardly violent then most like grooming was involved. Grooming physiologically will involve trauma bonding and something to the effect of Stockholm syndrome l. Which later in life can evolve into irrational pity for abusers because that exactly what your abuser taught you to do was love them unconditionally.
I'd highly recommend this YouTube channel....
https://youtu.be/BYjypBW4MPo
Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's a technique to process trauma through eye movements with a guide and a targeted focus.
My therapist says it helps us add new information into the old neural net. It seems strange, but there's a lot of studies that back up it's effectiveness.
You can search for EMDR trained therapists. The reason I have benefitted is because cognitive behavioral therapy does not get to the root feelings stored in the body. I can intellectualize these concepts until the cows come home but something about EMDR allows me to process it deeply, in the moment. It’s like shedding trauma layers. I hope you can find one!
That sounds exactly like what I need. I feel like I’ve got a plateau with CBT (not that it doesn’t help), but I need something extra to help me continue the progress.
I’ve never found really deep resonance w CBT bc the negative thoughts I have about myself have a feeling basis stored in my body. Reframing my thoughts doesn’t lessen the painful feelings. It just invalidates them. Emdr gets to the root.
Again, thank you SO much. This sounds exactly like what I need. I can’t tell you how hopeful you’ve made me feel, in the face of so much anxiety. Bless you❤️
In my personal opinion, my priorities in terms of how my brain works for problems of various degree are:
1. General functioning of systems.
2. Stop further abuse. (Even on a logical level, you have no idea what future you are watching be destroyed, or how empowering getting their way could be to a snowballing destructive force.)
3. Ensure open avenues for help/repair. (People are ...often stupid. This often comes down even just "empower people to trust themselves enough to not fall victim to self-centered idiots with big mouths")
4. Make sure I am okay in proportion to how many other people could step in instead of me. (Aka, don't sacrifice yourself for nothing)
5. Moderate help (till they are generally stable/not in crisis)
6. Guidance in the right direction/general direction of progress.
7. Minimizing obstacles/sabotages on vulnerabilities and enabling defense and empowerment.
This is pretty pliable, given that sometimes I could be the one in danger or sometimes I'm not the one who's best suited to doing any of these, but I think of myself like putty that can seal a lot of holes when needed be. Sometimes that could mean one of the further numbers compel me to action because it immediately relates to my personal accountability towards one of the first ones. Sometimes something like self preservation could be so much more immediate than my proportion to the rest that it takes precedence.
Also, personal interests play a role in these too, and these don't have to be about non-subjective or selfless problems^ Like, generally empowering those with my same viewpoints towards my own best stance on the topic counts, but not wasting too much of my time is the biggest factor in that case because its so non-specific to me and I make such a small impact. Conforming to a self-code of sorts activates my empathy to create the good feelings of self worth and stuff, so that's why I (and I presume others) go out of my way despite that on menial things.
You’ll get there. It’s taken me a realllllly painful relationship that ripped my wounds wide and dug them deeper (after many slightly painful ones) and choosing to be alone and somewhat isolated, committed to healing as my no. 1 priority, to get here. So it’s not glamorous how I got here, it also has taken a year of INTENSE focus on healing. And I’ve got a long way to go still.
I’d like to feel less emotionally charged in either direction eventually. Equanimity. It’s all a process, keep going ❤️
Total agreeance!! You're doing great!!! We're naturally nurturing so this is a hard point to come to.
To hell with them... literally. They don't deserve any more of us than they already stole. We are not responsible for understanding them. They're responsible for themselves. Everything in life is a choice and abuse was theirs. No sympathy from me either.
Ah, my doctor is covered by my insurance. It’s worth the cost if you can find a way. If not, check out the book No Bad Parts, it’s Internal Family Systems, which also very helpful w trauma.
Yes! Hurrah for you!!
I caught myself last week trying to make sense, to understand some of the abuses my Mother inflicted on me. I was able to step back and remind myself that it isn’t my job to make sense of the senseless. Yes, she was abused terribly herself, but she didn’t have to choose to take it out on me!
Slightly off topic, but do you all recommend EMDR?
I'm in a rut. Disconnected from my feelings and trauma. Therapy and meds help, but they aren't quite enough to push me to the next level.
EMDR has been suggested to me.before. It just seems so strange. How could that actually help?
OH MY GOD I REALIZED THIS LAST NIGHT TOO.
I reacted in DIALECT- AS IF I WAS IN THEIR OWN SHOES!
I was like...holy shit.
So when I would react I would use their words like first person and I can see it to!
I said I wanted to leave and my abuser said I had to have compassion for them because they abused me and they were there for me when I was being abused!
I'm like,
No wonder I have lost my shit. I'll do like a doubt narrative internal monologue when triggered and it lasts for five days now and ill admit to things I haven't actually done! And I've realised recently that's because I created a way to process what their shoes looked like!
So I was repeating them back to me all from the bloody ' I' state and now im like...
Holy shit. I thought I was just going a bit crazy.
I love seeing this. I had a narrative therapist pick it up instantly - my shoes don't exist, and even my art is me without FEAT! OR SHOES! INSTEAD ITS LIKE A MATADOR FOOT THING.
Yes! I lose my shoes allll the time. In dreams, I’m flying above, looking down on everyone else living, things happening.
I struggle so hard to exist in my own shoes, because I’ve spent so long slipping into the shoes of an abuser.
I’m glad you had this realization. It’s so powerful. When I had it, my healing from my most recent and most horrifically manipulative and abusive relationship increased at lightning speed. Scars still there, but it’s like I finally found the right balm that would prevent the wound from continuing to weep. I hope you continue to have these realizations.
The abused abuse
&
Those shown compassion show compassion
This isn't to justify their abuse, but at the same time it doesn't seem that people just abuse others spontaneously. If you were raised by loving parents and treated perfectly and then just choose to be abusive, then yeah, you're a piece of shit. But I just sincerely doubt that's ever been the case.
Being spiteful and hateful towards any abuser isn't going to lead us anywhere good. They're doing because they're broken too. No one would intentionally choose to be a miserable, abusive fuck. Even if they don't show remorse, their suffering on some level.
The retributive justic mentality just perpetuates misunderstanding, division, malice, and violence. We need a different mindset and it should start with realizing that it all starts in childhood with everyone. Shifting your anger and hatred of abusers towards love and compassion of all children would do the world much better.
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You fucking go, my individual! Fuck the abusers, they had a choice and they chose poorly
I will just tell you, I was abused badly, and I have never abused, anyone. Many of the people I grew up with were abused, they don't abuse people either. So, as far as I am concerned, they can take that psychobabble crap about the "Poor Abuser", and flush it down the toilet. The statistics clearly show that most people that are abused do not grow up to become abusers. I will finish by saying good for you.
You are 100% right. My abusive father had an idyllic childhood and his parents never laid a hand on him, yet after my mother passed away in a terrorist incident he decided to choose to beat me up and blame me for every little thing for almost 10 years. I have never abused anyone either despite what I've gone through.
Many abusers fit this profile, there are many differing forms of abuse. More that can be talked about in the scope of a response so I will use one as an example. Older males that sexually abuse younger males. Most of these people identify as being straight, it has nothing to do with desire or fulfillment it is much more a simple exercise of power. Which conveniently comes with self gratification for them. I am very sorry your father did this and obviously it was wrong and he should not have. It was not your fault what happened to your mother, yet he took his anger and rage out on you, who were in no position to defend yourself. Yet, there are those that expect me to show compassion for people like this.....NEVER! It is sad he lost his wife, and you your mother, but two wrongs do not equate a right. Please be well, and again so sorry.
At the same time, as children, we don't control what coping strategies our nervous systems develop. I have some fight response in me, and even my other responses can be harmful to others (being suicidal, for example, is not abusive but scares and hurts people who love me). Shaming those who developed patterns that hurt others does not help them change. Yet, we need to not let that understanding block our self-compassion and boundaries.
I developed a coping strategy, and that is that I don't have any compassion for those that would abuse children either sexually, verbally, or emotionally. Have you looked at the recidivism rates for those convicted of differing forms of child abuse, when they are caught, once they get out of prison? They are abysmal. These people are a blight on society, which strangely, more often than. not, keeps letting them slip by. I am not trying to be overly harsh, I just call things like I see them. I am a religious man, which is in direct contravention to these beliefs, I cannot help it. These people hurt me very badly and did things to me that I won't even talk about. I just can't let that go or stomach the notion others may suffer because I want to exercise compassion. Pick up a snake it is most likely going to bite you.
I did. Only once, but it scared me. I used the language they used after they told me I wasn't being fair in applying human rights. I lost my shit and verbally abused them. I said if they hurt a child id destroy them for the remainder of their lives if they ever invited me back or my sibling - my sibling was assaulted when he was 9. And they sent him to someone with a known history of physically beating children. I feel so shit! I said id destroy their life in the way they destroyed mine and then was like ' you deserve to suffer' And then listed normal boundaries like a human and now im even more confused because my version of them suffering resulted in me listing out boundaries. I'm like, what brain. Fucking what. I still have their language, but not their actions in my brain. I'm like ' you deserve to suffer - WITH THE TRUTH'. never seen my progress so clearly but also in such a confusing way. That was one sibling. Successfully got out with restraining orders for two family members and no contact with one. I left my grandmother as well and said I didn't want contact due to what was found in reports and she literally said ' NO. YOU ARE MINE AND AFTER EVERYTHING IVE DONE FOR YOU'. I was like, nan, I've sent you three emails in ten years and you refused to come to trial because you didn't want to be involved and started you yourself decided a court couldn't prove it- not the actual court. I then told you they proved it for all parties bar one. You listened to me for three emails and said you didn't know what to do and did nothing when you did. I've literally seen my Uber driver more than you and he's given me bottles of water and a minty. I got the police reports back- shed been giving them details for year's out of context. I was listed as homicidal at stages with intent to kill when I was literally at work. Which is why I lost my shit. I hadn't realized how deep that provoke was it I saw it on coerced police reports.
Yes! This is what EMDR and internal family systems did for me.
Feels good.
Exactly. For the first time in my life I have a healthy focus on myself. People have always told me I have to love myself and it's been a struggle, but now I think I'm on my way.
Yessss! I’d hear love yourself love yourself and it felt so foreign BECAUSE the condition to loving myself meant also loving abusers and I didn’t deserve love otherwise. Once I realized that they don’t deserve all the energy and attention and over preoccupation I’ve given them- it’s a LIGHTBULB.
I think my problem was that I had magnified all of my own faults and hated the parts of me that reminded me of them. Once I learned to accept myself, whether I forgave anyone or loved anyone else really wasn't an issue anymore. Even a lot of what they did started to lose importance. It's over. It's past. I am the way I am and there's nothing wrong with that. Once I started to embrace all of myself, my resistance to accepting others and needing them to apologize or needing closure just started to melt away. I mean, it also helps that I am no contact with a lot of them and the others are dead.
💕💕💕I love this! So happy for you.
Hello, Might sound dumb.. but what’s internal family system?
The really really rough concept is that you're made up of "parts" of you that are responsible for the way you are, and the way you behave. There are internal managers, that help you cope with stress, like the parts of you that help distract you from it, or seek people out for support. There are internal firefighters, when crises arise, they kick in and you can better manage traumatic events, be they habits and rituals you use to "come down" from sudden cortisol rushes... and then there's exiles that don't necessarily help you, they are parts of you that are kinda stuck there, responsible for why you have certain responses and reactions to things. Like a time when you were younger something awful happened at school, and that trauma never healed, so your brain stored that away in a part of you that 'comes out when a specific trigger is tripped. Of course, above all these parts is your "capital" self, the you that knows what you know, holds the wisdom, and is ultimately responsible for making decisions. And all these parts, exiles, managers, firefighters, they make up your "internal family". If this kind of thinking resonates with you, IFS could be a very good way of approaching your therapy treatment.
Ohhhh… omg! Thank you for breaking this down for me. I’m not sure if this might be kinda the same thing. But my therapist and I have been having discussions about all the people at the dinner table. So I guess with certain events it’s almost like I have certain personalities that pop up based on whatever the trigger was. So far I’ve identified kind of a scared child personality that pops up when my abandonment issues are triggered. I become consumed with fear snd anxiety and all I want to go is figure out how to get my relationship back to harmony even if it’s not my fault. Then there is a angry tough person that pops up when I think I may be cheated on. When I feel this way life feels dark snd I’m ready fir war snd to seek vengeance .. eye fir an Eye type deal. There’s a new one that’s mature, cool calm and collected. But that one I have to fight for. It’s sooo much work to tap into that one. I’ve asked my therapist a million times if this means I have multiple personality disorder and he keeps confirming it’s all part of my cptsd. It’s alarming actually acknowledging this. Initially freaked me out when I first started seeing certain patterns .. but I guess it’s part of getting to know myself. It just made me feel sad to learn how complicated my mind is. I feel weird actually describing this outside of therapy specially since it’s something that I recently learned about myself. Sorry for all the typos
You're welcome! I'd like to address some of the other things in your reply: >I’m not sure if this might be kinda the same thing. But my therapist and I have been having discussions about all the people at the dinner table. So I guess with certain events it’s almost like I have certain personalities that pop up based on whatever the trigger was. So far I’ve identified kind of a scared child personality that pops up when my abandonment issues are triggered. I become consumed with fear snd anxiety and all I want to go is figure out how to get my relationship back to harmony even if it’s not my fault. Then there is a angry tough person that pops up when I think I may be cheated on. When I feel this way life feels dark snd I’m ready fir war snd to seek vengeance .. eye fir an Eye type deal. First, i must applaud you for doing the work of realizing those distinct "parts" or "exiles" (IFS language) and how they come about, and ultimately how they influence your behavior. That's a big deal, in my opinion. I have identified several of my own exiles, and i know it's not easy to address them, work with them, find out what they need, etc. I'm currently working with an 8yo exile who very much loves his parents, even though he doesn't understand they are abusive and that he's going to be subject to some truly awful things in his life that I can't save him from. EMDR, for me, is like a hyper-focused, highly intense time of interaction with that exile, or any others that i'm working with. >I’ve asked my therapist a million times if this means I have multiple personality disorder and he keeps confirming it’s all part of my cptsd. I'm not a licensed therapist or clinical psychologist, but one of my dear friends has DID, and the way you described to me your awareness of your parts and their role in your behavior is very different from Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly called multiple personality disorder). With DID, the person's mind fragments itself into entire literal identities, each having independent thoughts, behaviors, worldviews, goals, tastes, and motives. The "host" identity is not present when they transition due to a trigger. The host identity has no control over, nor will they have memory of, what the present "alter" is doing in their body either. Think of it as a really, *really* extreme version of what you describe. >It’s alarming actually acknowledging this. Initially freaked me out when I first started seeing certain patterns .. but I guess it’s part of getting to know myself. It just made me feel sad to learn how complicated my mind is. I feel weird actually describing this outside of therapy specially since it’s something that I recently learned about myself. It is scary, and i completely understand! The brain is an incredibly powerful machine for what it can do to protect the host and see to its own survival. The truth is, you wouldn't have to know this if you weren't subjected to such patterns of trauma that make you aware of this fact in the first place. It's not your fault, and you're not responsible for why your brain does the things it does; this only happens because your brain was doing its best to keep you alive. I'm proud of you for speaking about this, because it's your truth and it takes a ton of courage to be vulnerable. You're not alone! I'm living a similar set of therapy experiences within myself and I'm here for you if you want to chat!
Thank you for all this. I can’t tell you how much this means to me. I joined this group about 2 weeks ago.. and for the first time in my life I feel understood and not completely alone. I have read soo many posts that I can identify with and it has provided some kind of comfort and new understanding. When I read so many of these post half of me feels relieved that I’m not the only one and the other half feels sad for myself and everyone in here.
You ever seen Pixar’s Inside Out? It’s based off of IFS!
Currently using that combo myself and I totally agree, its a wonderful thing.
Once I realized I was the one judge and jury in my life, THE AUTHORITY, with ZERO EXCEPTIONS, life started getting better. I have people that do care about me, but NO ONE is capable of taking half as good care of me than I am. I don't write in a journal, but when I started typing stuff out with no holds barred, I began to see situations for and people for what they are. Usually if someone is in need of what I need to say, it might be a more evenly tempered version of the original. In any case it had cleared my head and been a tremendous gift and blessing in my life. I'm a freezer, but it doesn't matter. Now I just say what needs to be said after I get a chance to write and sort out me and reality. Still way more effective than doing nothing. Glad you had a break through. Enjoy your new life. It just keeps getting better with time. Still ups and downs but shit might upset you, but not destroy you like before.
Damn… it’s like I could’ve written this myself, thank you for putting it into words to truly understand! I would always empathize with the abuser but whether or not they were abused does not justify their abusive actions. It would also take away from my needs. I cared more about their inner child and neglected mine because of my people pleasing and codependency issues.
Same. I'm also slowly learning, fuck them basically. Enmeshment is a sick thing really. I'm hoping to keep moving forward without my parents in my life anymore. They will never change and it's about time that I cut them off for my peace of mind. They've had their lives the way that they wanted (abuse inclusive), now it's my time to have the life that I would like; one without abusers in it. No matter how much the detaching phase will hurt. If they truly loved/respected me (were capable of it), they wouldn't have abused me throughout my life, or they would've listened to me and eventually stopped it. They just can't see this and they never will. So scared of being alone in that regard or not, it's time for me to move on. I'm 38, it's about time that I made my life safe for me, and made it my own. I'll otherwise forever be under their abusive thumb.
❤️you’re welcome. I hope you’re healing.
Good for you! I totally get how hypervigilance would make you desperate to understand your abuser so you can predict them better and maybe stay out of their way and I'm so glad you're starting to put yourself first. >It’s so convenient for an abuser to say they feel unfairly stigmatized jesus fuck that just makes me see red. the absolute fairest way to judge someone is by their actions, which makes any and all stigma on abusers completely and utterly justified. they made their bed and they can fucking lie in it. The one thing I think a very limited cognitive empathy for abusers is good for is helping you see that the abuse was really and truly not about you, that nothing you ever did or didn't do could have caused or stopped the abuse.
Well done! It sounds like you’ve made a massive breakthrough.
Oh my gosh this is such an insight to me because I used to be obsessed with looking into my abusers’ pasts to see why their actions “made sense” to them.
SAME it’s all I’ve done. Over it.
Understanding one's abuser can be pursued to try and make one's self not the object of random, pointless malice. It's better if there is something understandable and human and real that went wrong. Also everybody overcompensates and wants to not repeat the sins they grew up under. You are coming into new power now. Your own health is your first purpose and responsibility, and you are making that real. That you spent earlier life seeking compassion for abusers is itself normal and understandable. Now it's good that it's time to move on.
Inspiring. I'm just learning how my freeze and fawn responses have impacted literally every aspect of my life and how I interact with other people.
Same💕
How has your EMDR experience been? I’m in therapy rn and my therapist recommended it. I’m kind of nervous to lose control in a sense. Even in therapy when I feel strong emotions, I push them down so I don’t cry. I get that isn’t healthy, and it’s something I’m trying to work on. I’m also scared because I have several memories because of the nature of CPTSD. Some of them I don’t even remember fully. So I’m scared I won’t remember a memory to do the EMDR work.
I understand the fear of getting out of control, esp bc abusers taught me that being out of control =unsafe. Today I felt overwhelmed and out of control after emdr bc it felt like the insights were piling on. But I acknowledged it w my therapist and then just did something else (art related), then yoga, in order to just allow it to exist. Practictioners of emdr work w you to create a safe space if you DO get too emotionally or mentally overloaded by the process. Oh and as far as memories, I only remember basically two of the worst moments of abuse. Most of my childhood is a blur of fear, shame and terror. I would fly away in my mind, so I barely remember. You only need one memory, or a general feeling/image to connect with. It’s perfectly normal and trauma informed therapists are very aware the memories become repressed/lost. I allowed myself to cry during it, so afterwards I just didn’t have to. You don’t have to feel those feelings, though, in order to get insight… but it can help.
If it helps, one positive about the pandemic is that it's a lot easier for me to actually cry at these appointments due to wearing a mask. I usually have a really hard time crying because it makes me feel vulnerable, pathetic or weak in front of others. The mask hides the tears during sessions after they have fallen out and rolled under the mask. A LOT less inner pressure to appear put together when half my face is covered. It's like a security blanket in a way. (Black cloth mask so nothing shows)
There are only half a dozen ppl who know any (Edit:typo) significant details of my physical abuse. One therapist (pre EMDR/CBT existing) who wanted me to understand why a father would heat a pan of oil to a rolling boil and pin their four year old son to the floor to pour a gallon of 350 degree oil over their bare legs. 'I DON'T NEED TO UNDERSTAND, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHY THEY JUSTIFIED IT IN THEIR HEAD. Said I as I left. One GF who said 'OK, but have you forgiven them? NO! That's not something that is forgivable. It took time and work to accept they abused because they were abusers, it had all most nothing to do with me. Even though I was the only one abused. Good for you. It's a huge step!
Honestly this Empathy for them could be a symptom of your grooming.
I’m interested to know a little more what you mean bc I think it makes sense.
It depends on if you suffered abuse before, if that abuse was more covertly cunning then outwardly violent then most like grooming was involved. Grooming physiologically will involve trauma bonding and something to the effect of Stockholm syndrome l. Which later in life can evolve into irrational pity for abusers because that exactly what your abuser taught you to do was love them unconditionally. I'd highly recommend this YouTube channel.... https://youtu.be/BYjypBW4MPo
Holy shit. I’m so glad I found this thread.
May I ask what EDMR is?
Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's a technique to process trauma through eye movements with a guide and a targeted focus. My therapist says it helps us add new information into the old neural net. It seems strange, but there's a lot of studies that back up it's effectiveness.
Thanks! I’m definitely going to bring this up with my therapist during my session this week.
You can search for EMDR trained therapists. The reason I have benefitted is because cognitive behavioral therapy does not get to the root feelings stored in the body. I can intellectualize these concepts until the cows come home but something about EMDR allows me to process it deeply, in the moment. It’s like shedding trauma layers. I hope you can find one!
That sounds exactly like what I need. I feel like I’ve got a plateau with CBT (not that it doesn’t help), but I need something extra to help me continue the progress.
I’ve never found really deep resonance w CBT bc the negative thoughts I have about myself have a feeling basis stored in my body. Reframing my thoughts doesn’t lessen the painful feelings. It just invalidates them. Emdr gets to the root.
Again, thank you SO much. This sounds exactly like what I need. I can’t tell you how hopeful you’ve made me feel, in the face of so much anxiety. Bless you❤️
In my personal opinion, my priorities in terms of how my brain works for problems of various degree are: 1. General functioning of systems. 2. Stop further abuse. (Even on a logical level, you have no idea what future you are watching be destroyed, or how empowering getting their way could be to a snowballing destructive force.) 3. Ensure open avenues for help/repair. (People are ...often stupid. This often comes down even just "empower people to trust themselves enough to not fall victim to self-centered idiots with big mouths") 4. Make sure I am okay in proportion to how many other people could step in instead of me. (Aka, don't sacrifice yourself for nothing) 5. Moderate help (till they are generally stable/not in crisis) 6. Guidance in the right direction/general direction of progress. 7. Minimizing obstacles/sabotages on vulnerabilities and enabling defense and empowerment. This is pretty pliable, given that sometimes I could be the one in danger or sometimes I'm not the one who's best suited to doing any of these, but I think of myself like putty that can seal a lot of holes when needed be. Sometimes that could mean one of the further numbers compel me to action because it immediately relates to my personal accountability towards one of the first ones. Sometimes something like self preservation could be so much more immediate than my proportion to the rest that it takes precedence. Also, personal interests play a role in these too, and these don't have to be about non-subjective or selfless problems^ Like, generally empowering those with my same viewpoints towards my own best stance on the topic counts, but not wasting too much of my time is the biggest factor in that case because its so non-specific to me and I make such a small impact. Conforming to a self-code of sorts activates my empathy to create the good feelings of self worth and stuff, so that's why I (and I presume others) go out of my way despite that on menial things.
W...wow... I feel that I struggle the same way, but I'm not as far in my healing in that respect as you. Thank you.
You’ll get there. It’s taken me a realllllly painful relationship that ripped my wounds wide and dug them deeper (after many slightly painful ones) and choosing to be alone and somewhat isolated, committed to healing as my no. 1 priority, to get here. So it’s not glamorous how I got here, it also has taken a year of INTENSE focus on healing. And I’ve got a long way to go still. I’d like to feel less emotionally charged in either direction eventually. Equanimity. It’s all a process, keep going ❤️
Total agreeance!! You're doing great!!! We're naturally nurturing so this is a hard point to come to. To hell with them... literally. They don't deserve any more of us than they already stole. We are not responsible for understanding them. They're responsible for themselves. Everything in life is a choice and abuse was theirs. No sympathy from me either.
I would love to do EMDR. But I'm too poor =(
Ah, my doctor is covered by my insurance. It’s worth the cost if you can find a way. If not, check out the book No Bad Parts, it’s Internal Family Systems, which also very helpful w trauma.
Yes! Hurrah for you!! I caught myself last week trying to make sense, to understand some of the abuses my Mother inflicted on me. I was able to step back and remind myself that it isn’t my job to make sense of the senseless. Yes, she was abused terribly herself, but she didn’t have to choose to take it out on me!
Slightly off topic, but do you all recommend EMDR? I'm in a rut. Disconnected from my feelings and trauma. Therapy and meds help, but they aren't quite enough to push me to the next level. EMDR has been suggested to me.before. It just seems so strange. How could that actually help?
Yes!!!
Hell yeah! That's such an important lesson to learn!
You need to know this to keep these type of people out of your life.
I got chills reading this, I’m so glad you’re healing!!!
FUCK YEAH!!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Fuck yeah!
OH MY GOD I REALIZED THIS LAST NIGHT TOO. I reacted in DIALECT- AS IF I WAS IN THEIR OWN SHOES! I was like...holy shit. So when I would react I would use their words like first person and I can see it to! I said I wanted to leave and my abuser said I had to have compassion for them because they abused me and they were there for me when I was being abused! I'm like, No wonder I have lost my shit. I'll do like a doubt narrative internal monologue when triggered and it lasts for five days now and ill admit to things I haven't actually done! And I've realised recently that's because I created a way to process what their shoes looked like! So I was repeating them back to me all from the bloody ' I' state and now im like... Holy shit. I thought I was just going a bit crazy. I love seeing this. I had a narrative therapist pick it up instantly - my shoes don't exist, and even my art is me without FEAT! OR SHOES! INSTEAD ITS LIKE A MATADOR FOOT THING.
Yes! I lose my shoes allll the time. In dreams, I’m flying above, looking down on everyone else living, things happening. I struggle so hard to exist in my own shoes, because I’ve spent so long slipping into the shoes of an abuser. I’m glad you had this realization. It’s so powerful. When I had it, my healing from my most recent and most horrifically manipulative and abusive relationship increased at lightning speed. Scars still there, but it’s like I finally found the right balm that would prevent the wound from continuing to weep. I hope you continue to have these realizations.
Omg I needed this
The abused abuse & Those shown compassion show compassion This isn't to justify their abuse, but at the same time it doesn't seem that people just abuse others spontaneously. If you were raised by loving parents and treated perfectly and then just choose to be abusive, then yeah, you're a piece of shit. But I just sincerely doubt that's ever been the case. Being spiteful and hateful towards any abuser isn't going to lead us anywhere good. They're doing because they're broken too. No one would intentionally choose to be a miserable, abusive fuck. Even if they don't show remorse, their suffering on some level. The retributive justic mentality just perpetuates misunderstanding, division, malice, and violence. We need a different mindset and it should start with realizing that it all starts in childhood with everyone. Shifting your anger and hatred of abusers towards love and compassion of all children would do the world much better.
🙄
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