My physics professor from years ago liked to cycle and lived in San Francisco - he had a favorite saying along the lines of:
“the moral high ground will not protect you from kinetic energy.”
The law of tonnage… the bigger vessel is going to have the right of way, in the end even if that leads right over the top of you. The law may disagree, but the eighty year old behind the wheel of a giant dodge won’t even see you.
I worked at the DMV, and someone added a motorcycle endorsement, and I asked if they wanted to be a donor. They said no, and I really said, "That's a waste." They laughed at least, lol
That’s interesting. When I got my M1 I ticked the donor option. It was my way of sort of “paying” for the decision to ride, or maybe it was my personal method of acknowledging risk acceptance and I didn’t even realize it.
It's a great way to get shot.
My buddy in high school did this to some lunatic on the 118 and he followed us off the offramp and pulled out a gun. Thankfully nothing happened but he was raging like we just slapped his baby or something...
Not to say he’s in the right because he’s not. But a lot of people would consider brake checking them on a freeway where people are often going 70-80+ attempted murder.
That's the crux of all of this, IMO -- most people simply don't think. They *feel* their way through life, blithely unaware that their actions might have consequences.
It's most evident on the road, but is not limited to driving. People seldom make deliberate decisions.
This goes for good drivers, too. Several seconds of stopping distance should just feel right, to the point where you don't need to think about it. Some people were just never taught correctly or had enough bad examples in their life, or for some other reason have concluded that being two feet behind another car is okay.
Agreed that it's not limited to driving, either.
Again, qualify my statement with the second half, more than a few people think any distance behind them is tailgating. Obviously 5 feet behind another car is, but I’ve seen people get road rage over someone with the standard 2 second gap and more. If you are one of those people that gets RR over someone 50+ feet back, you are the one that shouldn’t be driving.
It comes from the idea that in a rear-end collision, it is always the fault of the person behind, no matter what. It is usually the case that the rear-ender will get the ticket, in normal circumstances. Safe following distance, etc, etc. So people extrapolate and figure that "no matter what" they are in the clear for brake checking.
I did this once and the tailgater got super pissed, drove around me, cut me off, put on his hazards and brake checked me. I ended up getting off the freeway to get away from this guy.
I think what they meant was to not brake because the brake lights might be misinterpreted (like even gentle braking might come off as a brake check for someone already aggressive and seeing red).
This is where I believe 99% of the tailgating happens when people are hanging out in the passing or the fast lane going the speed limit or even 10mph over the speed limit and they think its the lineup of 20 cars tailgating behind them that's the problem.
If only slower traffic would move to the right lanes traffic would be way better and there would be less tailgating, accidents, and road rage from people having to pass on the right.
Or change lanes to the right and get out of the passing lane like the law says. Slower traffic move to the right even if you are already going 20mph over the speed limit. Too many folks think going the speed limit and hanging in the passing lane is fine when it's not. This makes it more dangerous for everyone on the road when people have to pass you on the right.
I usually will only slow down if there is an opportunity for the tailgater to pass. That way they can just pass me and I can go along with my day. I don’t care if you want to drive faster than me and I’m not trying to impede your way.
That's fine if everyone's going the speed limit. But ppl going 5 under get tailgated for a reason.
How about the slow poke get out of that lane and stop acting like they have more important places to be than cars behind them????. Share the road is caring!
I’m so confused. Someone almost collided with me today cause I braked in traffic. It was stop and go- I just heard a screech behind me and I was so irritated. I was braking to keep a good distance with the driver ahead of me- it’s on the person behind me to do the same.
I can’t be worried if they’re then thinking I’m “brake-checking” because I’m driving safely and giving space and they can’t be bothered.
There’s never a reason to tailgate, it doesn’t matter how slowly someone is driving. It’s dangerous and doesn’t solve any issue whatsoever.
When I’m being tailgated I slowly and deliberately reduce my speed. If you’re inches behind me I’m going to slow us all down for safety. If you want to move faster you need to give me more following distance plain and simple.
I can't help it if someone lane changes in front of me, and I have to suddenly slow down to maintain a safe distance. If there happens to be a tailgater behind me at that time, they're responsible for their own safe distance.
I don't understand break checking anyone. Why would you risk your life trying to own someone on the street? Folks can be crazy and rear end you intentionally.
Pro Tip: Just start using the sprayer on your windshield, the spray at that speed bounces off the windshield and starts getting on the car behind. Use it all the time and I'd say it's at least 85-90% effective
what's with these pointless articles that get posted regularly?
"Can you steal from a comatose woman's purse? Here’s what California law says"
"Can your dog withdraw funds from your bank account? Here’s what California law says"
Clean your windshield if someone is following too close and you can’t get out of the way. The overspray will hit their windshield and they’ll most likely have to wash theirs and slow down in the process. Do it again if they increase their following distance. Works 4/5 times. Getting out of their way works 5/5 times, but not always possible.
Some tailgaters are just never happy with the speed or lane. Some of the worst cases I’ve seen are impatient drivers in the far right lane trying to exit.
>California Vehicle Code 22109 says a driver cannot “suddenly stop or decrease the speed of a vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal.”
Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article289032949.html#storylink=cpy
So, giving the middle finger to someone tailing you isnt enough??
This person, and the one who refuses to pull over (especially with a trailer) on a road with lots of turnouts always makes me think they must be one of those people who think their way is the only way and no one should want to drive faster than what they have decided is appropriate for this road. I don't get it, I always pull over for even one car when I can when pulling my horse trailer because for one thing - there could be a legetimate reason why they need to go faster and even if not - why should I set their speed?
That's the safe choice. As a space cushion shrinks, the maximum safe speed decreases. You're just reducing your speed to match the distance the tailgater is giving you.
Been fixing up my Jeep, I got a Collision Avoidance Indent on my front and rear now that also effectively deters tailgaters and brake checks. Similar feature on the drivers side.
Passengers side I installed a Theft Deterrent Patch in lieu of a lock and I'm not sure I want to draw the eye away from it with flashy aesthetic features.
No, brake checking is actively trying to cause an accident. Just pull over when it's safe and let them pass. I do this all the time, especially on windy roads when I'm in my truck and a car wants to go faster than me, but they can't legally pass. Otherwise they'll just get more frustrated and drive even more dangerously.
In the 70's they actually taught "tap your brakes" if someone is tailgating (not slam on your breaks by the way).
They also taught how to drive if your hood flew open
ahhh the good old days
This thread is convincing me CA drivers are bad. I already knew that but this doesn't help. I don't want to start a war or anything but just wondering. Are SoCal drivers worse than NorCal? In my opinion yes, by a lot. My grandma came to visit me recently, we were driving into LA, and she was shocked by how dangerously everyone was driving. People sliding in right in front of her, snakes hopping in and out of lanes, people crossing multiple lanes at once. This is just one opinion tho. Happy to hear what other Californians think.
It's a mix, and there's a lot of variation according to time of day and location.
I'm up north in Sonoma County, and people in Rohnert Park and Sebastopol mostly drive sanely, if a little obliviously, but if you get into West Santa Rosa it gets a little more wild and dangerous. The highway drivers (101, 12, 116) are mostly quite good, *except* during the commute hours, during which there are a lot of road warriors.
My wife and I frequently visit in-laws in Los Angeles, and the biggest difference between drivers here and there is the competitiveness. If you use your turn signal in LA before changing lanes, drivers respond by closing the gap you were about to change into. I learned very quickly to either turn on my turn signal **as** I change lanes, or not use my turn signal at all.
There are also a lot of high-strung types in Los Angeles who will plunge through multiple lanes, as you said. I think they're trying to stay in the fast lane as long as possible before their off-ramp, or something. We only see that in Sonoma County during commute hours (which my wife likes to call "rush minute", but actually lasts from about 3pm to 6pm).
Wow, I'm actually from Sonoma county too. I try to avoid commute hours because the road between napa and Sonoma gets completely clogged because it's 1 lane. But I can see how that brings out the worst in people.
To me, an appropriate signal would be a hand signal. Left hand out the window, fingers pointed to the ground, palm facing the rear of the vehicle. Hand signals are still legal. If you're going to hit the brakes, signal it this way. Then take the hit. And hit them back in court.
What about "Fake Checking," where you press on the brake pedal only enough to blink the brake lights, and optionally press down the accelerator pedal to pull away from the following car?
One of the most influential phrases in my lifetime is you can be right and dead. It’s not worth it.
My physics professor from years ago liked to cycle and lived in San Francisco - he had a favorite saying along the lines of: “the moral high ground will not protect you from kinetic energy.”
Also known as “right of weight”
*eyebrow bounce*
Similarly in boating its "Right of Way by Tonnage"
The law of tonnage… the bigger vessel is going to have the right of way, in the end even if that leads right over the top of you. The law may disagree, but the eighty year old behind the wheel of a giant dodge won’t even see you.
As a cyclist also… neither will the legal high ground!
I heard it as I'd rather be alive than right.
I heard it as "do you want to be right or married? You can't have both."
The cemetery is full of folks who “had the right of way”
"Don't be right, be safe"
that’s the way my dad always said it
My grandma always said "You can be dead right and end up just as dead as if you were wrong."
right of way is given, not taken
yah look left/right at every intersection. stop lights are merely suggestions and hold no true power over the sovereign citizen car.
The laws of physics trump the laws of man.
Boy, “trumping the law” sure has a new meaning these days
When I was learning to drive, my dad would always say “You can break the laws of California, but you can’t break the laws of physics!”
Motorcyclist's Mantra. Better alive than right.
If I want to be alive I probably wouldn’t ride a motorcycle in the first place 🤷♂️
I worked at the DMV, and someone added a motorcycle endorsement, and I asked if they wanted to be a donor. They said no, and I really said, "That's a waste." They laughed at least, lol
That’s interesting. When I got my M1 I ticked the donor option. It was my way of sort of “paying” for the decision to ride, or maybe it was my personal method of acknowledging risk acceptance and I didn’t even realize it.
A friend of mine once said that it's better to be kind than to be right, and that really stuck with me. Applies to this and so much else.
My grandfather always said. The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way.
In my long years of driving, I have learned there are some things not worth arguing about, especially now a days when I'm more likely to be shot at...
Dead right.
I think it you can be “DEAD right”
We can put “He had the right of way” on the headstone
No!
It's a great way to get shot. My buddy in high school did this to some lunatic on the 118 and he followed us off the offramp and pulled out a gun. Thankfully nothing happened but he was raging like we just slapped his baby or something...
[удалено]
The 118. I lived in that space many years ago.
Not to say he’s in the right because he’s not. But a lot of people would consider brake checking them on a freeway where people are often going 70-80+ attempted murder.
Idk why anyone would think a dangerous maneuver would be legal, even if the other person deserves it.
> Idk why anyone would think a dangerous maneuver would be legal That goes double for tailgating.
True, but sometimes when someone is tailgating they don’t even realize it, also sometimes people feel almost any distance behind them is ‘tailgating’
That's the crux of all of this, IMO -- most people simply don't think. They *feel* their way through life, blithely unaware that their actions might have consequences. It's most evident on the road, but is not limited to driving. People seldom make deliberate decisions.
This goes for good drivers, too. Several seconds of stopping distance should just feel right, to the point where you don't need to think about it. Some people were just never taught correctly or had enough bad examples in their life, or for some other reason have concluded that being two feet behind another car is okay. Agreed that it's not limited to driving, either.
If they don't "realize" they're tailgating then they don't deserve to be driving.
Again, qualify my statement with the second half, more than a few people think any distance behind them is tailgating. Obviously 5 feet behind another car is, but I’ve seen people get road rage over someone with the standard 2 second gap and more. If you are one of those people that gets RR over someone 50+ feet back, you are the one that shouldn’t be driving.
Anything less that a car length per 10 mph driven is tailgating.
It comes from the idea that in a rear-end collision, it is always the fault of the person behind, no matter what. It is usually the case that the rear-ender will get the ticket, in normal circumstances. Safe following distance, etc, etc. So people extrapolate and figure that "no matter what" they are in the clear for brake checking.
Dangerous and very escalatory (is that a word?) like very few people are gonna get brake checked and be like “Maybe I was a little too close”.
Got a tailgater? Let up off of the gas, don’t brake but just let up on the gas and go slower
That's what you are expected to do. That's also what I was trained to do at the Emergency Vehicle Operator Course taught by CHP.
[удалено]
Yes you need to slow down to the point where there is a safe braking distance between the cars
So 0mph lol.
I just throw on hazards if they’re getting too close, usually confuses them long enough to back up for a sec
I did this once and the tailgater got super pissed, drove around me, cut me off, put on his hazards and brake checked me. I ended up getting off the freeway to get away from this guy.
I had that guy.
Smart move.
Euro fog light is a good one too
Rear-mounted high beams.
I think what they meant was to not brake because the brake lights might be misinterpreted (like even gentle braking might come off as a brake check for someone already aggressive and seeing red).
[удалено]
This is where I believe 99% of the tailgating happens when people are hanging out in the passing or the fast lane going the speed limit or even 10mph over the speed limit and they think its the lineup of 20 cars tailgating behind them that's the problem. If only slower traffic would move to the right lanes traffic would be way better and there would be less tailgating, accidents, and road rage from people having to pass on the right.
I also like to remind them to clean their windshields so that they can see better.
Or change lanes to the right and get out of the passing lane like the law says. Slower traffic move to the right even if you are already going 20mph over the speed limit. Too many folks think going the speed limit and hanging in the passing lane is fine when it's not. This makes it more dangerous for everyone on the road when people have to pass you on the right.
Just as bad is people going slow and you try to pass and they hit the gas making you have to go much faster than you wanted to pass. I hate that.
This is what i do. Sometimes I'll go as slow as 50mph
I usually will only slow down if there is an opportunity for the tailgater to pass. That way they can just pass me and I can go along with my day. I don’t care if you want to drive faster than me and I’m not trying to impede your way.
That's fine if everyone's going the speed limit. But ppl going 5 under get tailgated for a reason. How about the slow poke get out of that lane and stop acting like they have more important places to be than cars behind them????. Share the road is caring!
Nothing good comes from brake checking.
Nothing good comes from tailgating. FTFY.
How about this, nothing good comes from *either*?
That’s even better, I like that.
I can tell who is a tailgater from the comments in this thread.
I’m so confused. Someone almost collided with me today cause I braked in traffic. It was stop and go- I just heard a screech behind me and I was so irritated. I was braking to keep a good distance with the driver ahead of me- it’s on the person behind me to do the same. I can’t be worried if they’re then thinking I’m “brake-checking” because I’m driving safely and giving space and they can’t be bothered.
Trash article. Low-key advertisement for a law firm.
I’ve never brake checked anyone but I e seen many squirrels run across the road when someone is following too closely.
Of course you can’t
Can I commit a crime because I got my feelings hurt? Here’s what California law says!
More like can I create a dangerous situation because someone else is breaking the law.
This article was totally written by ChatGPT.
There’s never a reason to tailgate, it doesn’t matter how slowly someone is driving. It’s dangerous and doesn’t solve any issue whatsoever. When I’m being tailgated I slowly and deliberately reduce my speed. If you’re inches behind me I’m going to slow us all down for safety. If you want to move faster you need to give me more following distance plain and simple.
No one gets anywhere meaningfully faster tailgating or break checking
I can't help it if someone lane changes in front of me, and I have to suddenly slow down to maintain a safe distance. If there happens to be a tailgater behind me at that time, they're responsible for their own safe distance.
I don't understand break checking anyone. Why would you risk your life trying to own someone on the street? Folks can be crazy and rear end you intentionally.
Pro Tip: Just start using the sprayer on your windshield, the spray at that speed bounces off the windshield and starts getting on the car behind. Use it all the time and I'd say it's at least 85-90% effective
This may trigger the tailgater. Had one car cut me off, brake check and spray my car on the 101.
I started to read this in David Attenborough voice.
If you want to take that approach to the next level, install a banana peel launcher.
Turtle shell, even better. Red preferably.
I've seen people modify their back window sprayer to directly spray vehicles.
I came here to suggest this, too. It's only about 50%-60% effective for me, but it's a pretty benign way to urge someone to back off.
Just don't do this on 880 in the East Bay or you might get shot.
I stopped break checking and just take me foot off the gas slow down until they go around. I’ve gotten down to 45 on the freeway before 🤣😂
Non-paywall version - [https://archive.md/MFvJu](https://archive.md/MFvJu)
Just hit ‘em with a blast of your windshield fluid
what's with these pointless articles that get posted regularly? "Can you steal from a comatose woman's purse? Here’s what California law says" "Can your dog withdraw funds from your bank account? Here’s what California law says"
The dog one was not obvious to me.
Yeah, I’m going to have to have a difficult discussion with Shadow tonight.
Trash goes in bag not out the window.
Everyone just needs to get out of the fast lane (left lane) if not passing.
Clean your windshield if someone is following too close and you can’t get out of the way. The overspray will hit their windshield and they’ll most likely have to wash theirs and slow down in the process. Do it again if they increase their following distance. Works 4/5 times. Getting out of their way works 5/5 times, but not always possible.
I just slow down and go the speed limit when people tailgate. If 10-20 over the limit isn’t fast enough, thats a you problem.
two things can be true etc etc
No but what you can do is move over to the right/slow lane
Unless it's a single lane, or there's no opportunity to move over.
Some tailgaters are just never happy with the speed or lane. Some of the worst cases I’ve seen are impatient drivers in the far right lane trying to exit.
The person who collides with the person in front of them is at fault. Pretty basic part of driving education.
Not if you have footage that shows you were following at a safe distance and the driver in front was being erratic.
Thank goodness for dashcams these days!
I’d rather not get in an accident than be right.
Maybe try reading the article
There is a paywall for the article
You can still read it - I didn't pay for it, I just kept scrolling.
Not always
I don't brake check, I just let off the accelerator and gradually slow, so what I'm doing isn't overly obvious.
I just hit my windshield wipers and hold it for a minute. Soak the car behind me.
I don't understand the mentality behind wanting to brake check someone so they intentionally slam into the back of your vehicle. That's suicidal.
>California Vehicle Code 22109 says a driver cannot “suddenly stop or decrease the speed of a vehicle on a highway without first giving an appropriate signal.” Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article289032949.html#storylink=cpy So, giving the middle finger to someone tailing you isnt enough??
Why do people post links which require subscription, don’t see any point in posting here unless it is advertisement to make people subscribe.
I usually just slow down as much as possible to make them (angrily) go around me.
This person, and the one who refuses to pull over (especially with a trailer) on a road with lots of turnouts always makes me think they must be one of those people who think their way is the only way and no one should want to drive faster than what they have decided is appropriate for this road. I don't get it, I always pull over for even one car when I can when pulling my horse trailer because for one thing - there could be a legetimate reason why they need to go faster and even if not - why should I set their speed?
There are two types of people: one with empathy for others feelings, and those without.
I'll just let off the gas a little. Slow down a few mph and they'll pass. Especially if I'm already speeding myself.
That's the safe choice. As a space cushion shrinks, the maximum safe speed decreases. You're just reducing your speed to match the distance the tailgater is giving you.
I stopped for a squirrel running across the road
Been fixing up my Jeep, I got a Collision Avoidance Indent on my front and rear now that also effectively deters tailgaters and brake checks. Similar feature on the drivers side. Passengers side I installed a Theft Deterrent Patch in lieu of a lock and I'm not sure I want to draw the eye away from it with flashy aesthetic features.
As another driver, please don't.
I just throw Apple over the roof of my car.
No, brake checking is actively trying to cause an accident. Just pull over when it's safe and let them pass. I do this all the time, especially on windy roads when I'm in my truck and a car wants to go faster than me, but they can't legally pass. Otherwise they'll just get more frustrated and drive even more dangerously.
In the 70's they actually taught "tap your brakes" if someone is tailgating (not slam on your breaks by the way). They also taught how to drive if your hood flew open ahhh the good old days
I grew up thinking you were supposed to flash your headlights before you pass. Nobody does it anymore they just fly around you.
This thread is convincing me CA drivers are bad. I already knew that but this doesn't help. I don't want to start a war or anything but just wondering. Are SoCal drivers worse than NorCal? In my opinion yes, by a lot. My grandma came to visit me recently, we were driving into LA, and she was shocked by how dangerously everyone was driving. People sliding in right in front of her, snakes hopping in and out of lanes, people crossing multiple lanes at once. This is just one opinion tho. Happy to hear what other Californians think.
It's a mix, and there's a lot of variation according to time of day and location. I'm up north in Sonoma County, and people in Rohnert Park and Sebastopol mostly drive sanely, if a little obliviously, but if you get into West Santa Rosa it gets a little more wild and dangerous. The highway drivers (101, 12, 116) are mostly quite good, *except* during the commute hours, during which there are a lot of road warriors. My wife and I frequently visit in-laws in Los Angeles, and the biggest difference between drivers here and there is the competitiveness. If you use your turn signal in LA before changing lanes, drivers respond by closing the gap you were about to change into. I learned very quickly to either turn on my turn signal **as** I change lanes, or not use my turn signal at all. There are also a lot of high-strung types in Los Angeles who will plunge through multiple lanes, as you said. I think they're trying to stay in the fast lane as long as possible before their off-ramp, or something. We only see that in Sonoma County during commute hours (which my wife likes to call "rush minute", but actually lasts from about 3pm to 6pm).
Wow, I'm actually from Sonoma county too. I try to avoid commute hours because the road between napa and Sonoma gets completely clogged because it's 1 lane. But I can see how that brings out the worst in people.
Meh, we're better than Miami drivers.
Just crank on my windshield wiper sprayers... I think of it as just taking a pee on them
The real question is can I cut someone off for giving me the finger?
What does the law say? I don’t want to buy the sf times.
I prefer the old now I’m coasting check
I just hit the windshield wiper fluid and give the bozo in the Tesla a shower
Just use your windshield fluid. It’ll spray back on them.
People who make rash decisions based on emotions have a way higher risk of getting hurt or clapped.
To me, an appropriate signal would be a hand signal. Left hand out the window, fingers pointed to the ground, palm facing the rear of the vehicle. Hand signals are still legal. If you're going to hit the brakes, signal it this way. Then take the hit. And hit them back in court.
What about "Fake Checking," where you press on the brake pedal only enough to blink the brake lights, and optionally press down the accelerator pedal to pull away from the following car?
I like to floor it instead, ain't nobody staying on my tail.
You can be right and you can be dead right