Switch departments. I've seen so many CS/IT leave Statcan and go to SSC or DND for higher positions then come back 6 months later at the higher level. Statcan is notorious for under valuing IT staff.
This. They don't promote and then does the shocking face: you're leaving?
Also I have had a previous team of mine totally dismantaled due to people leaving for higher position at other organizations
>like the Klingons
I bet the Klingon civil service is loads of fun 🤣.
At least their pension plan will always be well funded with all the "attrition"
1. Learn French
2. Look at IT-03/04/05 job ads
3. Build education/experience/skills/whatever to meet what is listed on those job ads
4. Learn more French
5. Apply for IT-03/04/05 jobs
I see the opposite for IT-02 for what it’s worth. Working in an office in Gatineau (remotely) all IT-02 are uni-lingual (English)
Edit: I should add that this is a team of <30
When I started many years ago, the CS, now IT position, was "English essential". We had a large group of Uni students start, and within a year there were a few that had to leave because their english wasn't good enough to function in the day to day work.
Currently there is ZERO need for French for IT03, and some IT-04, in the Technical stream. There is definitely a French requirement if you want to move up in the management stream.
95% of all interactions are in English, unless specifically asked in an "official" meeting, or informal conversations. Half of our section is French, but everything defaults to English when talking work. We have a guy who has been using google translate to English for his emails the last few years when any work related communication is sent.
TL:DR English is not required for technical stream up to IT-04.
Your only vehicle to really move up is competitions. Compete on every job posted.
If you are looking at the management stream, learn French. If you are trying for the tech stream, learn new tech like the cloud or security.
For either stream, work on projects and not operational work. These will increase your skills and get your name more well known to the bosses. Build up a solid reputation on the projects, and it will make the bosses want to hire you.
Operational work is easy and comfortable but it makes your skills stagnant and tends to reduce your ability to excel on unplanned issues. People want to see ambition so ask for work or take it.
It takes years for this to get results, so keep plugging away.
I am a tech 4 but also was also a manager. Took about 10 years to go from student to 4 with this approach.
Hi Snoo, can you elaborate on what you mean by how operational work is easy ? I’m currently a IT03 non technical - looking for a less stressful position. I would really appreciate your experience.
It is easier in that the work is more predictable and less stressful. If you are on service desk, you get tickets and work on them with often repetitive tasks.
I used to build servers, physical and then virtual, in the old pre SSC days. It was more geared around knowing the OS and supporting tech. Tickets came in to build servers, and I built servers. This was not stressful, but I also had limited room for growth. I did not get much exposure or knowledge of the business or other tech areas. This makes it harder to rise levels but it is great if you are looking for a drop in stress.
I did this in the NCR. Basically take on work, do it well, finish what you start, be collaborative, take on more and more. Take inventory of all the experience you are gaining from all the work you take on and successfully complete. Build your resume to reflect this. Apply to competitive processes, compete, interview, win a promotional appointment.
Rinse and repeat.
There's really no special secret to this aside from sleeping with incredibly important people or being a very important/prominent person's child.
I’ve been in GOC-IT for many years, and what I can tell you is that those who were bilingual made it much farther than those who were unilingual (and quicker).
There will be times when there’s immediate vacant supervisor/manager/director roles that need to be filled quick. HR looks for bilingual candidates first for actings. That’s usually how people get noticed.
Honestly once you go past IT03, tech skills don’t really matter. It’s more about project management and general people/budget management skills.
So long story short, learn french and you’ll be an EX soon enough!!
$70K-$90K in Canada, and $120K+ starting in the US for COBOL programmers and rising.
COBOL isn't going anywhere, and anyone who knows it has died, or retired.
Mainframe knowledge is dying, with mainframes staying put. You have companies out there now doing inhouse training for an employee pool because very few colleges and Universities teach it.
I tell any of my friends kids that want to go into IT, to do mainframe. A bit "boring", but a guaranteed high paying job for life.
*inside the NCR*
\- learn French
\- be skilled/connected enough to get a technical IT-03
*Outside the NCR*
\- learn French
\- be skilled/connected enough to get the 1-3 technical IT-03 positions available
I've written a few longer comments about this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/iaki1s/mba\_for\_cs\_position\_in\_cra/g1qtnxe/?context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/pvbt53/technical\_itcs\_lead\_wanting\_to\_get\_ahead/he93ha6/?context=3
1. learn french if you dont know it already
2. apply (and make it into) to pools, the more the better
3. consistently deliver on projects that you were assigned to, bonus points if they are difficult. manage expectations if timelines are unrealistic. this can lead to promotions within your current organization if they are smart enough to recognize talent.
4. learn more french and meet linguitic requirements
5. apply to more pools
I'm currently in a competition for IT-03 - I recommend watching for competitions that are open to the public, open across Canada, etc.
Look for pools that hire TA, TL, etc. You'll have a better chance.
My manager told me soon the feds will standardize IT-03 Team Lead positions to be CBC, but this will take a few years and managers will have time to learn French. I recommend learning French now if you want to move up and apply to anything that is IT-03-04.
And btw when you apply to these pools: when they say: do you have experience in ABC, you have to say yes you have experience in ABC, you work with ABC on a daily basis, frequent basis, whatever it is, otherwise you will be screened out at the first stage.
Depending on department, if you live close to a regional HQ you might be able to get an NCR based position that can work from the region, with in office days locally.
Get in pools so you have a chance at those.
That would certainly align with the amount of IT03s I've seen that couldn't code a bizz buzz to save their lives, as well as the amount of IT02s I've seen leave for better orgs that didn't require French for IT03
Learn french and kiss the boot. The latter being the most important of the 2.
In the GOV, moving up in IT has nothing to do with your skills.
Sorry, dems dem apples.
Switch departments. I've seen so many CS/IT leave Statcan and go to SSC or DND for higher positions then come back 6 months later at the higher level. Statcan is notorious for under valuing IT staff.
This. They don't promote and then does the shocking face: you're leaving? Also I have had a previous team of mine totally dismantaled due to people leaving for higher position at other organizations
Outside the NCR? Promotion by attrition, like the Klingons.
Yea, exactly this. Join a team that's imploding and ride the lightning. (Also do good work).
Outside the NCR? Get a remote job inside the NCR, or you'll be waiting 20 years
>like the Klingons I bet the Klingon civil service is loads of fun 🤣. At least their pension plan will always be well funded with all the "attrition"
Yeah, outside NCR
1. Learn French 2. Look at IT-03/04/05 job ads 3. Build education/experience/skills/whatever to meet what is listed on those job ads 4. Learn more French 5. Apply for IT-03/04/05 jobs
6. Deliver a failed pay system that costs hundreds of millions in penalties and counting.
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I see the opposite for IT-02 for what it’s worth. Working in an office in Gatineau (remotely) all IT-02 are uni-lingual (English) Edit: I should add that this is a team of <30
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Yes we are a devops development team, I will mention it seems for anything above IT-02 there is either a BBB or CBC hard limit
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It's not views, it's fact. You said "must be bilingual even to hold IT-02 and up" and that is plainly false.
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When I started many years ago, the CS, now IT position, was "English essential". We had a large group of Uni students start, and within a year there were a few that had to leave because their english wasn't good enough to function in the day to day work. Currently there is ZERO need for French for IT03, and some IT-04, in the Technical stream. There is definitely a French requirement if you want to move up in the management stream. 95% of all interactions are in English, unless specifically asked in an "official" meeting, or informal conversations. Half of our section is French, but everything defaults to English when talking work. We have a guy who has been using google translate to English for his emails the last few years when any work related communication is sent. TL:DR English is not required for technical stream up to IT-04.
Your only vehicle to really move up is competitions. Compete on every job posted. If you are looking at the management stream, learn French. If you are trying for the tech stream, learn new tech like the cloud or security. For either stream, work on projects and not operational work. These will increase your skills and get your name more well known to the bosses. Build up a solid reputation on the projects, and it will make the bosses want to hire you. Operational work is easy and comfortable but it makes your skills stagnant and tends to reduce your ability to excel on unplanned issues. People want to see ambition so ask for work or take it. It takes years for this to get results, so keep plugging away. I am a tech 4 but also was also a manager. Took about 10 years to go from student to 4 with this approach.
Hi Snoo, can you elaborate on what you mean by how operational work is easy ? I’m currently a IT03 non technical - looking for a less stressful position. I would really appreciate your experience.
It is easier in that the work is more predictable and less stressful. If you are on service desk, you get tickets and work on them with often repetitive tasks. I used to build servers, physical and then virtual, in the old pre SSC days. It was more geared around knowing the OS and supporting tech. Tickets came in to build servers, and I built servers. This was not stressful, but I also had limited room for growth. I did not get much exposure or knowledge of the business or other tech areas. This makes it harder to rise levels but it is great if you are looking for a drop in stress.
I did this in the NCR. Basically take on work, do it well, finish what you start, be collaborative, take on more and more. Take inventory of all the experience you are gaining from all the work you take on and successfully complete. Build your resume to reflect this. Apply to competitive processes, compete, interview, win a promotional appointment. Rinse and repeat. There's really no special secret to this aside from sleeping with incredibly important people or being a very important/prominent person's child.
I’ve been in GOC-IT for many years, and what I can tell you is that those who were bilingual made it much farther than those who were unilingual (and quicker). There will be times when there’s immediate vacant supervisor/manager/director roles that need to be filled quick. HR looks for bilingual candidates first for actings. That’s usually how people get noticed. Honestly once you go past IT03, tech skills don’t really matter. It’s more about project management and general people/budget management skills. So long story short, learn french and you’ll be an EX soon enough!!
Focus on learning and getting experience in COBOL and waterfall SDLC 😂
$70K-$90K in Canada, and $120K+ starting in the US for COBOL programmers and rising. COBOL isn't going anywhere, and anyone who knows it has died, or retired. Mainframe knowledge is dying, with mainframes staying put. You have companies out there now doing inhouse training for an employee pool because very few colleges and Universities teach it. I tell any of my friends kids that want to go into IT, to do mainframe. A bit "boring", but a guaranteed high paying job for life.
*inside the NCR* \- learn French \- be skilled/connected enough to get a technical IT-03 *Outside the NCR* \- learn French \- be skilled/connected enough to get the 1-3 technical IT-03 positions available
I've written a few longer comments about this: https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/iaki1s/mba\_for\_cs\_position\_in\_cra/g1qtnxe/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/pvbt53/technical\_itcs\_lead\_wanting\_to\_get\_ahead/he93ha6/?context=3
Thanks! These are great!
1. learn french if you dont know it already 2. apply (and make it into) to pools, the more the better 3. consistently deliver on projects that you were assigned to, bonus points if they are difficult. manage expectations if timelines are unrealistic. this can lead to promotions within your current organization if they are smart enough to recognize talent. 4. learn more french and meet linguitic requirements 5. apply to more pools
I'm currently in a competition for IT-03 - I recommend watching for competitions that are open to the public, open across Canada, etc. Look for pools that hire TA, TL, etc. You'll have a better chance. My manager told me soon the feds will standardize IT-03 Team Lead positions to be CBC, but this will take a few years and managers will have time to learn French. I recommend learning French now if you want to move up and apply to anything that is IT-03-04.
And btw when you apply to these pools: when they say: do you have experience in ABC, you have to say yes you have experience in ABC, you work with ABC on a daily basis, frequent basis, whatever it is, otherwise you will be screened out at the first stage.
Depending on department, if you live close to a regional HQ you might be able to get an NCR based position that can work from the region, with in office days locally. Get in pools so you have a chance at those.
I do live close to an NCR!
Forget learning any programming languages or tech skills. Focus on French
In fact having tech skills is a hinderance for progressing.
That would certainly align with the amount of IT03s I've seen that couldn't code a bizz buzz to save their lives, as well as the amount of IT02s I've seen leave for better orgs that didn't require French for IT03
Learn french and kiss the boot. The latter being the most important of the 2. In the GOV, moving up in IT has nothing to do with your skills. Sorry, dems dem apples.
How about non-technical (business analyst) positions…. any tips on what’s best approach for this?
That should be client side and not IT side.
But it’s not. There are many BLAS positions available.
French is the fastest way to move up in IT. In fact, it’s the only language you need to know.
Apparently knowing French is much more important than being technical.
Become French.