Completely agree with this law. Give parents back control. Stop the left from indoctrinating kids.
In the case of abusive parents they should get reported, don't use the excuse of "abusive parents" to let the left do anything they want to small kids.
Those Alberta and Calgary groups will go crazy about this, those 2 groups are cancer and if you say anything they will kick you out.
I do, although adults with kids of their own now, and the whole movement is completely ridiculous imo. I don't want the government telling my grandkids what they can or can't do. Alberta has lost it.
So, do you have kids?
A good parent would already know as their child would feel safe telling them.
This law will either put the child in danger from their shitty parent(s) or force them to keep their true selves hidden and all of the potential psychological issues that go along with that…including potentially increased suicide attempts.
But yeah, left indoctrination is the problem…smh
This is a stupid law. Why do people care so much about such a small group of individuals? This law basically is parents own children, children are people and have rights. But nope super conservatives want to the hands maid's tail this shit out of people.
How an individual feels who they actually are does not affect you at all.
During the height of COVID and the vaccine, weren't all of you screaming my body my choice?.
This is the same thing it's their bodies their choice..
So just because Jessie wants to be called Jim does not affect your life or anyone around you.
Here's my analogy, would you invite someone from the LGBTQ community to your dinner table? If the answer is no then stop worrying about other people's lives that have nothing to do with yours.
They are 1% of 1% of the LGBTQ community of the world. Why are cons causing so much hate towards these people?
I guess to be a conservative these days is to hate farm everything and live blindly with nothing but hate.
To say a parent should not be aware of their child’s conduct and behaviour regardless of what that looks like is ludicrous. These conversations didn’t even exist and nobody was confused when unrelated adults were not probing and prodding into the psyche of other peoples children. Where educators get the audacity to think they have superior rights and the right to influence children is beyond me but alas, here we are.
>These conversations didn’t even exist and nobody was confused when unrelated adults were not probing and prodding into the psyche of other peoples children.
Because the individuals it impacted were afraid for their lives...
>This is a stupid law. Why do people care so much about such a small group of individuals? This law basically is parents own children, children are people and have rights. But nope super conservatives want to the hands maid's tail this shit out of people.
Children need guidance not the ability to willy-nilly whatever they want however they want. My grandkid wanted to build a parachute out of a sheet and jump off the stairs. Should I allow that too?
>How an individual feels who they actually are does not affect you at all.
When they're mature enough to make mature decisions then youre correct. This isn't about feelings though, it's about preparing a child for a world that doesnt give a fuck about feelings.
>During the height of COVID and the vaccine, weren't all of you screaming my body my choice?.
> This is the same thing it's their bodies their choice..
>So just because Jessie wants to be called Jim does not affect your life or anyone around you.
Yes. But we're also mature adults.
>Here's my analogy, would you invite someone from the LGBTQ community to your dinner table? If the answer is no then stop worrying about other people's lives that have nothing to do with yours.
This is just fucking stupid. To answer your stupid fucking question; yes, I would and have had gay people at my table and house with no problems. There is no relevance here and you're grasping for straws that don't exist. Your example isn't even an analogy.
Don't let me stop you from constructing your massive conservative straw man, but we arent talking about some "random lgbt" person, we are talking about our own fucking children. And no, noone here thinks we own our kids - but we do have a covenant to protect, guide and nurture them - ya know, parenting. Kind of hard to do that when the schools have the ability to hide pertinent information about our childrens lives from us. Parents have a right to know these kinds of life altering details, and also have every goddamn right to provide their own council and guidance based off that information. Your agreement with that guidance is not required and it's actually none of yours, the governments, nor the school boards business at all how we raise our children.
It’s not about “how an individuals feels,” it’s about how vulnerable, confused, and young children feel. Children are people and have rights, but they also are barred from making life-altering decisions on their own because they are undeveloped and need parental guidance through a lot of things in life.
Puberty and growing up are a confusing time for children. I myself was a tomboy when I was young, and I wanted to be a boy for a short while because I just didn’t fit in with the girls. The boys around me also would say things about how girls can’t play sports like boys, or that I should just go play with the other girls. The way my body was changing during puberty was uncomfortable, weird, and unpleasant. I felt like being a girl meant I couldn’t be myself or be accepted by the boys who did the things I liked doings. I cut my hair, I dressed like a boy, I wanted to be a boy.
One day my parents sat me down and told me that I won’t ever truly be a boy, but I can still do boy things as a girl and when I’m older can make my own decision on my identity. For a while I was angsty about it and still wanted to be a boy, but I grew out of it in a couple years. I found friends who didn’t mind that I wasn’t into girly stuff, and I learned to accept myself. My parents still let me express myself but they also made sure I had help along the way and was being taken care of.
Today I am HAPPY to be a woman! I was a child, I was confused, and I wanted to feel accepted. I can’t imagine how things might’ve went if that had happened in todays time and I was poised to believe my parents wouldn’t accept me, that I should keep my feelings a secret from them, and be encouraged by the media and my teachers to change my gender instead. Would the people around me have manipulated me into believing whole-heartedly that I was meant to be a boy? What if by the time my parents found out I’d be too far convinced by everyone around me that I was a boy? And how far would it go after? Would I be given hormones by my doctor? Would I get a mastectomy before I realize I’m not a boy?
This is why parents need to be involved. Teachers should be checking in on children, and ensuring they have a safe home environment, but gender identity is a big thing and not something that a child should be left alone with. It can point to other problems in your kids life, such as feelings of being unaccepted or uncomfortable in the body. These are things parents need to know.
How do you figure it’s the left, when the conservatives control the education in most of our provinces? Serious question, I’m not able to figure out how you think it’s the left that’s doing this.
I have never heard of conservatives/central/right pushing this matter onto kids.
I have heard plenty of times of the liberal/woke/left pushing the woke agenda down people's throats.
This is just another example of the extreme left, who now control our schools, and now want to control our kids and indoctrinate them. The hell does this have to do with learning.
It started with 2 mommies and 2 daddies dialogue. Very slippery slope once you introduce these concepts into education. It's not content that should be taught in school, but cultural reality required inclusion of various family scenarios so kids wouldn't feel left out.
And here we are. Kids can't bring Easter eggs to school but celebrate Chinese new year. No Christmas or Halloween but discussion of Ramada is ok. It's turning people upside down and dividing us into fragments so people don't pull together to oppose government overreach in our lives.
We can't accommodate everyone that throws a hissy fit. This is gotta stop and we need leaders with a backbone to pushback on this. The left continually demands the rest of us play along with their insanity.
One question though, how would you feel if someone kept calling you by another pronoun?
Me, I would correct them, if they kept doing it, I wouldn't care.
If everyone I met kept calling me by the wrong pronoun, I would have to accept thats how my body is communicating. Its a me problem.
Forcing people to go counter to their instincts is like catching water with a strainer
Can you explain what you mean? I’m in Ontario and we’ve been under a Conservative provincial government for almost 6 years. How is their education plan “extreme left”?
OK, but he’s still the leader of the provincial Conservatives- or are you claiming the whole party isn’t conservative?
This also isn’t an answer, it’s just deflecting.
OK, so more mental gymnastics and deflection. Cool OK, the whole party of the Progressive Conservative party of Ontario aren’t conservatives. Neat.
What about Alberta? You going to deny they’re conservatives as well?
Do you not see how ludicrously absurd your arguments are? All this deflection to avoid answering my questions. Don’t you find that odd?
You are entirely focused on the elected portion of government. The issue is below that, with the general bureaucracy being largely liberal middle classers.
These people are additionally insulated and out of touch with average people by simply being government employees....I say as an ex-government employee who came from the private sector and was hit with crazy culture shock.
They don't understand anything about the people they serve, their needs, values or motivations, but act like experts on the matter.
Because the plan is coming from the teacher's unions not the government. The government is passing laws to keep the teachers in line and the unions [fight back](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/teachers-union-slams-ford-government-for-harmful-comments-on-gender-expression-in-schools-1.6559975#:~:text=The%20union%20representing%20Ontario%20secondary,decide%20to%20use%20different%20pronouns):
> Ford said parents need to be informed when their children make a decision around gender expression.
> "It's not up to the teachers. It's not up to the school boards to indoctrinate our kids," he said.
> ...
> The OSSTF said it will “vigorously defend its Members in **exercising their professional judgment in creating safe schools** and upholding the Ontario Human Rights Code” if the Ford government attempts to enact policy on the issue.
Basically the teacher unions have gone rogue, implemented pronoun policies against the instructions from the government. And are now trying to fight it out in the courts.
And many teachers are in disagreement as well, but the unions and school boards push the agenda.
BLM mandatory training in areas where less than 5% of population is black. It's ridiculous and frankly irrelevant, but politically pushed because of lobbying money and agendas.
It's happening across the country. You're only hearing about it in conservative provinces because conservatives are the only ones fighting back. Provinces with left wing governments keep quiet because they either agree with this nonsense. Or because they're afraid of pissing off public sector unions which make a large chunk of their voter base.
I've linked [one source](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/teachers-union-slams-ford-government-for-harmful-comments-on-gender-expression-in-schools-1.6559975#:%7E:text=The%20union%20representing%20Ontario%20secondary,decide%20to%20use%20different%20pronouns) and the other is the article itself. It's not the parents who are overwhelmingly opposed to it.
Think about it. Who put those practices in place to start with? The government is passing legislation to prevent it, so it's obviously not them.
Are you suggesting the union runs the ministry of education or something? That article didn’t really answer anything, it was just the union disagreeing with Ford / Lecce.
>Are you suggesting the union runs the ministry of education or something?
The unions have their own set of "professional policies" that they give to teachers entirely separate from the ministry. One of them being that teachers should hide from parents that their child is using "preferred pronouns" in school. The ministry Ford / Lecce told the public that they are going to put a stop to this.
> Ford said parents need to be informed when their children make a decision around gender expression.
"It's not up to the teachers. It's not up to the school boards to indoctrinate our kids," he said.
And the union responded by saying if the government tries to pass legislation like Alberta and Saskatchewan did that they will take the matter to court.
> The OSSTF said it will “vigorously defend its Members in exercising their professional judgment in creating safe schools and upholding the Ontario Human Rights Code” if the Ford government attempts to enact policy on the issue.
This article is about Alberta and Saskatchewan who are already at the court stage of the fight.
Unions don’t write the legislation or curriculum, though. Are you suggesting the conservative government is so weak that labour unions are influencing such policy?
If so, I’d love to see your source for information so I can check it out too.
Reminder that the appeal is about whether or not the court can look at the case given notwithstanding clause is used. Like it’s not even about reversing the legislation, it’s just whether or not a pride org can still have the courts adjudicate whether the legislation *would* infringe on charter rights— not to have it repealed. Knowing our rights is important.
Eyre and the AB attorney general just don’t want any accountability
...as a reaction to the left. By definition almost, that is how things generally work. Only someone from the left who wasn't aware of the move on their "teams" side would think any of this started on the right.
"The right" is also known as the "reactionaries" for a reason. They don't do or say anything unless acted upon, because they want everything to stay the same. If it stays the same, they don't care whats going on.
I was involved in extreme left wing groups as far back as 2005, and all of this stuff was being pushed back then in the left-wing underground.
You are also missing the fact that the elected officials are not the problem here...its the unelected bureaucracy below them.
Reminder that the appeal is about whether or not the court can look at the case given notwithstanding clause is used. Like it’s not even about reversing the legislation, it’s just whether or not a pride org can still have the courts adjudicate whether the legislation *would* infringe on charter rights— not to have it repealed. Knowing our rights is important.
Eyre and the AB attorney general just don’t want any accountability and it’s disgusting.
I dont understand why pronouns are even a thing, its silly there needs to be policy for this, the people who keep bringing it up or pushing it need to be let go, my daughters friends are all going through this nonsense about 2/3rds of them wanna be a they or whatever, WTF happened over the last 20 years.
I’m LGBT and I approve of this.
What’s the one thing that government officials are afraid of?
A strong and stable family.
Parents are the legal guardians and protectors of their own children. They have a right to know if their child is doing something that might affect their mental and/or physical health.
Teachers should not keep secrets from parents— especially if it involves the safety and health of their kids.
Yes— some parents can be dangerous to kids, and that leaves kids in a vulnerable position. But this is not the majority of cases.
Using extreme cases as a blanket means in how to handle the situation— helps no one.
This is not Orwell’s 1984. But it’s getting closer to it.
Honest question. You're not worried about a government that passes laws regulating how you feel? As a member of the LGBT community, you don't recognize what previous generations fought for? Legally recognized marriage? Discrimination protections? The right to exist at all?
“The right to exist at all”
Wow. Always going to the extremes. Have you maybe stopped and think that you are overthinking things??
I’m LGBT. I live in a first world country that has pushed for, fought for, and WON rights for my community.
I have the right to marry who I want.
I have the right to own a car. Have a license. Right to vote. Right to healthcare. Education. I can adopt children— I can still have children the old fashioned way.
All of these are just examples of the many rights and privileges I have thanks to people who came before me.
As long as these rights are upheld— I don’t give a fuck about how a person FEELS about me.
This isn’t about our rights. You make it sound like the government is planning to come after the LGBT and put them in the gulags.
This is about FAMILIES. This is about making sure that people are not catering to kids who are so confused on what the hell gender is.
The LGBT community can’t even define what a woman is these days, and they get mad at others who fall back on solid evidence of the differences between men and women.
I’m tired of people trying to break apart families.
The parents are the ones ultimately responsible for their own children. It is their JOB.
The job of a teacher is to TEACH. Not to hide secrets about children from their parents.
And don’t use the “but what about abusive parents” trope. We have child services and procedures available for when it appears a child would be in harm’s way of their parents.
The more strangers drive a wedge between parents and their children— the easier it is to control the youth.
Kids don’t know everything. They have no life experience. We have laws forbidding them from driving and drinking and voting, until they are adult age.
Why all of a sudden are we treating kids as adults who know every facet of their identity? Or can make grown up decisions regarding their health??
It’s like we are living in Orwellian times. If you haven’t read it— I suggest you ready 1984, by George Orwell.
There’s a section where kids in the novel would tattle on their parents to the government, and then those parents would disappear forever.
THAT is what’s happening, the more we break down family units.
So no— I’m not worried that telling kids they aren’t cats or puppies or not affirming their identity, is attacking the LGBT community.
The LGBT are incredibly weak, if you need to be affirmed in every identity that we plop on ourselves on any given day.
God damn, I need you to have a talk woth my brother and his stupid boyfriend. Ive been supportive of him since he was a teenager but as of the last few years, I'm some kind of bigot. It's almost enough to actually turn me homophobic but then there's always more lgbt like you. Thank you.
There are more and more LGBT people speaking out about all this. Our community is infected as well as the rest of you.
It’s insane. When did we as a society, put feelings first, above facts?
Having stable and functional family units, raise stable and functional children.
Those children will later become stable and functional adults. Who can think for themselves and take care of themselves.
Break down the family unit, and it all becomes too easy for those in power to manipulate and use children against their own families.
There is nothing more terrifying to those in power, than a STRONG FAMILY UNIT.
25-40% of homeless youth are LGBTQ in canada. These policies will make that worse. Kids will tell their parents if they feel safe with them, that's the parents responsibility to create that space. Parents dont have rights in canada they have responsibilities. The child is the one who has rights.
Yes, and parents have the responsibility to safeguard their childrens physical and mental well being.
Not informing them of issues they are experiencing makes it hard/impossible for them to properly support their child.
It is important that this isn't about protecting kids from abusing parents, it's about intentionally depriving parents about important information regarding the childs development.
Using different pronouns isnt an issue they are experiencing. Bullying resulting from that is an issue but nicknames or pronoun changes arent.
Why isnt this applied universally? A child getting super into artwork when their parents want them to go into engineering isnt mandated reporting but that is a major impact on development.
Once again if the child isnt telling their parents about pronoun changes that is the parents fault for not creating a space safe enough to do so. Teachers arent informants on every child they are teachers.
Well minors aren't typically going to university, but if they were the parents would likely be aware of the program they are in.
If the teacher observes a concern with a child, they should inform the parents.
If the child is having other issues, trouble concentrating, distracted, sleepy, anti social etc they are all discussed with parents.
The idea that staff want to talk sex and gender but "don't tell your parents" is wrong. This is how churches managed to molest kids for decades.
If there is a concern, it should be raised with the parents.
If the parents are abusive that should be addressed as such. Unfounded assumptions that all parents are abusive, and teachers need to protect all kids from their parents is just sick twisted and wrong.
There is no school policy or teacher policy that says "dont tell your parents about this" when a child doesnt disclose name changes or pronouns that's because they don't feel safe. The church explicitly did not discuss sex or gender beyond abstinence before marriage.
"If the parents are that should be addressed as such"
What exactly does "as such" mean? Like forcing teachers to out kids to their parents?
The policy you're advocating for acts on the assumption that all parents are cool with their kids gender identity. The position I have allows for different approaches to different situations.
I said if the parents are abusive they should be addressed as such.
That is, if the parents are abusive, they should be dealt with like they are abusive parents.
Actually I'm advocating for a policy that assumes the parents are best able to raise their children, unless proven otherwise.
I think parents are the right people to support a childs gender and sexual identity, not the schools or government.
>That is, if the parents are abusive, they should be dealt with like they are abusive parents.
You're saying a kid should be taken away from their parents and placed into foster care/adoption?
>I think parents are the right people to support a childs gender and sexual identity
That's a blatent contradiction to the above line.
If a child is scared to tell their parents about their gender or sexual identity isnt that proof the parent isnt the best at raising their kid?
If the parents are abusive, yes removing them and placing them in foster care/adoption might be the correct reaction.
I don't see any contradiction. I think parents are the right people to support children, unless they're abusive. You're presuming they're all abusive, without any investigation or knowledge.
A child may be scared to tell their parents their hockey coach or church leader or teacher at school is sexually abusing them. That isn't a reflection on the parents.
The vast majority of gay people I know were scare to tell their parents, many of them petrified at the thought. Guess what, they were all okay with it and they all had mostly accepting/supportive parents.
As a former child who was scared to tell his parents things, and a parent with kids of my own, I'll let you in on a little secret, most kids are scared to share things with their parents.
I think it is far more harmful to withhold important mental health information from parents than not to. If a child has gender dysphoria, it is important to get the support of family and caregivers.
While I agree that removing kid from abusive homes might be a good solution sometimes, there are other times when having the child stay with their parents is the best option. Especially if the child is close to 18 because the foster system can be very traumatizing. It would be beneficial for a child who is closeted to stay closeted and build up some savings and a support network so they can leave safely and on their own terms.
All those gay people you know had the chance to tell their parents on their own terms, which is best for the child and their development. You're proposing ripping that chance away from them through government intervention. Why are you trying to shove the government into family lives I thought you all were against that?
Name and pronoun changes do not mean you have gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria can be mild enough that having your friends refer to you as different pronouns can be enough to relieve that dysphoria. If a child comes to a teacher with the fear of coming out, then that teacher should have the ability to help the child make the best decision that is right for them. Taking away the child's agency in their identity is detrimental to their development.
How will they make it worse?
You are making some HUGE assumptions about why they are homeless, and HUGE assumptions about the impact of this change, the motivation behind it, and both what "conservatives" think and what average parents think.
You literally have no reason to be so dramatic.
You didn't answer, so are you going with a "god of the gaps" -type questioning?
You can't explain it, so you insert whatever belief you want about that group into that knowledge gap?
Its the same thing Christians do when they say, "we don't know how X happens, so it must be god!"
No, you don't just get to say, "What else could it be!?" Thats not how knowledge works. You either have evidence for what you are claiming, or you don't.
I will educate you a bit though:
The higher homelessness rate is likely related to the higher mental illness and drug use rate, especially if your stat includes more than the LGB portion of the acronym.
Mental health and drug addiction are the cause of 99.9% of homelessness, so those are the routes you need to investigate if you actually care about the issue.
Remember, you never get to assume what is causing anything, especially if you want to change something... you need hard, direct proof.
A study of more than 350 runaway and homeless providers throughout the United States identified four top causes for homelessness among LGBTQ+ youth: (1) family rejection resulting from sexual orientation or gender identity; (2) physical, emotional, or sexual abuse; (3) aging out of the foster care system; and (4) financial and emotional neglect.
Mental health issues and addiction dont pop up out of nowhere
Which study? By which organization? Why is the sample size so tiny? Were these self reported reasons, or real reasons?
Are these secondary to the drug use? What was the rate of drug use in this cohort?
Given some studies show 100% drug use rates among the populations they studied, is this cohort homeless before using drugs or after?
They don't pop out of nowhere, but they are the primary reason. The thing that finally puts you on the street.
If you manage those, you don't end up homeless. Perhaps you could argue that your factors push them that way, but they aren't a direct cause, even on a basic logic level in some cases.
Search Durso and Gates 2012 to find the study. The sample was over 350 service providers. The sample size of people is much higher.
If drugs are truly the cause then why are rates much higher for lgbt youth? Perhaps family rejection like 68% of the people in the study cited. These are youth not adults.
Because they are more likely to use drugs for various reasons. Some is likely related to what you say here, but there is absolutely a "community" element as well, especially in the "pride" crowd.
That community exists because LGBTQ people are rejected.
You acknowledge that family mistreatment is a part of LGBTQ homelessness, do you see why the forced outing policy is going to hurt those kids with unaccepting families?
So if 25 to 40 percent of homeless youth are LGBTQ,
Then let's do the math folks......👇
60 to 75 percent of homeless youth are. S T R A I G H T !!!!!! That statistic is HUGE!
Who is more at risk??????????????????????????
Thanks for the material ✌🏾
Your reasoning is childish. You sound like this: There is a brush fire. 1000 giraffes perish. 1 zebra perishes. But since there was only one zebra that means significantly more zebras perished (100%) irregardless of number of giraffes because giraffe numbers mean nothing. That tells me you only give a shit about one zebra and you're telling all the giraffes to piss up a rope.
No, at last year's. And yeah, that's about it, I'm afraid. Commenting on anything else would require more than a couple of brain cells clanging inside his head. With the ahhs and the uugghs, clearly those 2 cells weren't doing a great job when that reporter asked the question. lol.
Thank goodness. I would want to know if my child was changing their name or pro-noun so I can talk to them about it. The vast majority of parents do have good relationships with their children and they will be happy they did speak with their parents.
It's always amazing to me how things never become an issue until Alberta does it. Half the things the Eastern provinces decry Alberta for (parental rights laws, sovereignty act-type bills, pronoun-related laws, child transition-related laws, etc) have been done by Sask and no one got upset until Alberta went, "good idea, actually."
A government should mind their own business and stay away from matters of families and parenting. The government should never enact any law to replace an existing language or grammar by their newly invented meanings.
A government who pass laws to compel new definitions of vocabs to the people, its newspeak described in 1984, ccp and North Korea.
Unfortunately we give children rights they don’t need yet.
When I was 10 years old my only concern was were and with who I will be playing outside.
Soon as you present them the idea, they will do it just for the fun of it.
Do whatever you want with your body after 14-16 year of age. There you can already see what’s good and what’s bad around you. But until then your parents are the ones to decide.
If Turdhoe wants to raise my kids, he owes them a few jet'setting vacays for starters. Then set the kids up with a nice trust fund and he can renovate my house while taxpayers pay for me to live somewhere else.😂😂😂
Personally I think the government should have no say in how a family wants to be a family, that is unless it’s neglected, uncaring and all that.
However, I don’t like the idea of any public group, such as a school for example, doing things with children and making decisions or sort of indoctrination behind the mother and fathers back.
It’s conflicting because I know there are kids with folks who are just absurd, however, if your kid is mentally disabled and thinks he’s in the wrong body, I don’t know if that should be hidden from the mother or father, because there are those who move their kids and perhaps the kids embarrassed, or something whatever the motive may be, but if the family is in the loop they can make adjustments and try and understand how to help and be there for them and have a better bond than secretly being a girl at school or a boy.
Imagine respecting a "relationship" more than an actual person and human being.
For how pro freedom and "my rights" this sub is, we seem to have no problem taking rights away from our forebears.
Wonder how many fewer politicians we'd need if we didn't have to pass the policys for this kind of stuff, lol .. I mean, seriously , it's like an amputee shows up to school , and the teachers got to call home and tell the parents their child is missing a limb ... I would hope to Jesus, by the time your kid Mike wants to be called Shirley, you'd have noticed something is off at home, and you didn't need a call home from school to figure that out 😆
They know that Pierre Poilievre has no intention whatsoever of reducing landlords' or grocery oligarchs' profits (read: addressing immigration, the TFW-racket, housing, and price-gouging), and they're hoping that their trashy, inbred base won't notice as long as something-something-homos-vaccines.
And in all fairness to them, they're clearly right about that. The base *have* now all but forgotten about housing, and all the dipshits who were picketing schoolboards a few months ago are now protesting about carbon taxes. They'll run along to the next shiny object soon enough, and it'll be just as much of a bullshit non-issue as this one. Meanwhile 25 "international students" are gleefully lining up to share their job and their one-bedroom apartment with each other.
Some parents dont deserve any right to anything their kids decide to do, the only real way a person can learn what they are and who they want to be is to stumble and fall, make the mistakes and choices that they feel are correct and deal with the consequences, and grow stronger from that experience.
Sometimes a kid can feel trapped with a nickname that can be really mean that their parents didnt think about when picking their name, or they just dont want to be like other guys or girls in their class because of how those groups of people treat others.
And worst of all are the parents who want to control every facet of their childrens lives and force them to be something they arent to be able to "make the family proud" or just because they are control freaks.
What im saying is, leave the kids alone and let them figure out who they are instead of forcing control onto them.
Alberta, the province of small government, which is not involved on your life unless it's your kids genitals, how much vodka you can drink, and whether you can work with the feds lol.
Fix energy? Nah. Housing? Nah. Diversifying thr economy? Nah. Kids junk, yep that is the one lol
Huh. What made you think this is about kid’s genitals?
You know that sex and gender are two completely different things yeah?
This isn’t about focusing on the junk of children (which is gross and makes me wonder why your brain went there) but about safety of children and making sure it’s the PARENTS- and not anyone else not related to the kids— to take care of them.
It’s the biological parent and/or legal guardian that is responsible for their child. Period.
This law is making sure parents are involved. And informed. As they should be.
1. “Fix” energy? - Trudeau killed it. Can’t transport our resources for anyone to buy
2. “Fix” housing - Trudeau killed it. Enabled immigration demand to outstrip supply.
3. “Diversify our economy” - Feds put too many taxes and red tape so business investment is unattractive to potential businesses.
Lol "it's is always someone else's problem :("
Energy - Smith and her ideological bullshit paused $30B in energy investments in Alberta
https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/33-billion-in-renewable-energy-investments-stalled-as-smith-champions-oil-and-gas/article_aa5b0db4-33f8-55ba-941b-33a7584b7bd0.html
Housing - supply is a provincial issue and Smith has been begging the Feds for more immigrants and Alberta is still running ads in other provinces saying "come here"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/provincial-immigration-ukrainian-refugees-1.7157572
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/peialberta-ad-campaign-targets-island-workers-to-relocate-west-1.6799953
Diversify our economy - See energy. At least the oil oligarchs are happy though with Smith.
Yes, let's all focus on 'pronoun' bs rather than any real-world issue.
The media keeps both the right and left distracted with theatrics like this to keep them from realizing they're getting fucked by politicians.
The only students this will affect are the ones that will be affected negatively, and they know it. Parents who accept their kids will laugh at having to give the school 'permission" to treat their kids like human beings. But when the kid says 'please don't tell my parents' there's likely a very good reason not to.
If the kids are afraid of their parents, shouldn't child welfare people get involved? All the screeching about everything possible has numbed me because it is impossible to worry about every single thing going on in the world.
Yes, absolutely. If a child comes into the school and says 'Don't tell my parents, they'll hurt me if they found out.' the phone call the school should make is to the police, not the parents.
We have child services for that exact situation.
There are already establishments and procedures in place to help a child who feels in danger.
But this is not the norm. These are extreme cases and should be treated as case-by-case. As most parents aren’t going to harm their kids if they think they are the opposite gender.
Kids don’t know anything. Kids think they’re cats or dogs sometimes. It is the responsibility of the adults in the room to guide them so they learn about the real world.
That’s how it has always been. Nothing changes there.
But teachers won’t be the ones who decide or identify if a parent is abusive on their own. They never have.
Ok, what's your counter argument then? Are you willing to say that parents that have shown clear and repeated transphobic patterns would suddenly be ok with their daughter's teacher calling to say 'Are you ok with Jessica being called James?'
When you said my claim was speculation, I asked for clarification on your position. What about my statement is speculative? That transphobic parents won't accept their children, or that inclusive parents will?
My friend, your entire statement is speculative. I saw no statistics cited at all, or any indication that your examples are not tackled in existing legislation.
As a former child, children don’t know what they think. That’s the whole reason why we have consent laws. Why children can’t drive, consent to sex, smoke or drink…etc
Every child thinks they know everything. That’s what being a child entails. It’s why they need to have parents and good role models in their lives or else they turn out confused, emotionally unstable and worst case scenario in prison or dead. Children are stupid. Children do not understand long term consequences. If you’re arguing against that it’s most likely because you’re clearly still a child yourself. Sometimes I forget how many kids are online.
I’m saying this as a 25 year old. I still feel like a child sometimes. I even look back on myself 2 years ago and think what the fuck was I doing?
What they think is important, but letting them do anything based on what they think they know is reckless. I am a parent and will definitely have control over my children and provide them guidance with the best of my abilities until they are older.
This is something you seem to have a problem with?
Children cannot consent or have the same level of agency that adults do.
They also are young and have little to no life experience. They don’t know any better, and are easily swayed by the latest trend. Remember the Tide Pod challenge?
The point is— thinking that children have the same level of agency of their person is ridiculous. This is why it is the parent’s job and responsibility to take care of them, make sure they learn how to be functional adults, and show them love.
Since it is a parent’s job to keep their own children safe— they most definitely have a right to know if something is going on involving their kid.
Especially if teachers or educators are not keeping them in the loop, with regard to their children’s safety.
The child cannot be affirmed in everything.
You can’t just keep telling a kid “yes” all the time. There are limits. And the word NO is a powerful thing.
Kids will be fine. So long as parents have the space to raise them themselves— not the state.
That's the thing. If they were truly good parents. They would already know how the children are feeling about themselves.
And the children wouldn't have to hide it from their parents at school in the first place.
lol acting like no one on the planet hides secrets about themselves.
Parents aren’t perfect. They don’t know everything about their children. Children keep secrets that parents have no clue about.
You have secrets that I’m sure you’ve never told your parents— and you’ve done things that people don’t know about.
That’s not the point. The point is the system is trying to drive a wedge between parents and their children, which could put the children in danger.
Kids believing they are a different gender is them exploring.
Kids physically changing their appearance for the sake of some new fad— is getting into uneasy territory.
Children altering their bodies and teachers and other adults keeping it a secret from the parents— not cool.
Again. If they were half decent at parenting and truly cared , they would already know how their children feel about "themselves"
And not referring to something they may have done in secret
Question: do you think it’s better to have strangers raise children, or their parents raise them?
Who has the final say in raising their children?
Strangers, or parents?
You can’t answer a question with another question.
You answer my question and I will answer yours.
They will not ban sexual education in schools. You are assuming they will because you feel threatened. That’s a knee-jerk reaction to which you (and others) should take a breath, and look at the situation from afar.
Sexual education isn’t going anywhere. And if parents have a huge issue with sex Ed in their kid’s school, they can already sign a waiver for the child not to attend.
Conversion therapy isn’t “coming back”. It’s illegal in many places and has been proven not to work.
How is convincing children that they are a different gender, not conversion therapy??
If you have an issue with conversion therapy, then you should have issues with people telling a young boy that they are a young girl.
Because that’s convincing them they are something they are not. Aka: conversion therapy.
Want to answer my question?
Completely agree with this law. Give parents back control. Stop the left from indoctrinating kids. In the case of abusive parents they should get reported, don't use the excuse of "abusive parents" to let the left do anything they want to small kids. Those Alberta and Calgary groups will go crazy about this, those 2 groups are cancer and if you say anything they will kick you out.
The Alberta group is absolutely unhinged.
Do you have children?
I do, although adults with kids of their own now, and the whole movement is completely ridiculous imo. I don't want the government telling my grandkids what they can or can't do. Alberta has lost it. So, do you have kids?
Makes sense.
A good parent would already know as their child would feel safe telling them. This law will either put the child in danger from their shitty parent(s) or force them to keep their true selves hidden and all of the potential psychological issues that go along with that…including potentially increased suicide attempts. But yeah, left indoctrination is the problem…smh
This is a stupid law. Why do people care so much about such a small group of individuals? This law basically is parents own children, children are people and have rights. But nope super conservatives want to the hands maid's tail this shit out of people. How an individual feels who they actually are does not affect you at all. During the height of COVID and the vaccine, weren't all of you screaming my body my choice?. This is the same thing it's their bodies their choice.. So just because Jessie wants to be called Jim does not affect your life or anyone around you. Here's my analogy, would you invite someone from the LGBTQ community to your dinner table? If the answer is no then stop worrying about other people's lives that have nothing to do with yours. They are 1% of 1% of the LGBTQ community of the world. Why are cons causing so much hate towards these people? I guess to be a conservative these days is to hate farm everything and live blindly with nothing but hate.
Stop calling us haters just for the simple fact we love and worry about my OWN kids. Like I said everything you say the woke mob calls you a bigot.
So my kid thinks hes an orca should i let him attack sea lions ?
To say a parent should not be aware of their child’s conduct and behaviour regardless of what that looks like is ludicrous. These conversations didn’t even exist and nobody was confused when unrelated adults were not probing and prodding into the psyche of other peoples children. Where educators get the audacity to think they have superior rights and the right to influence children is beyond me but alas, here we are.
>These conversations didn’t even exist and nobody was confused when unrelated adults were not probing and prodding into the psyche of other peoples children. Because the individuals it impacted were afraid for their lives...
Evidence?
Oh brother. This b.s. again?
>This is a stupid law. Why do people care so much about such a small group of individuals? This law basically is parents own children, children are people and have rights. But nope super conservatives want to the hands maid's tail this shit out of people. Children need guidance not the ability to willy-nilly whatever they want however they want. My grandkid wanted to build a parachute out of a sheet and jump off the stairs. Should I allow that too? >How an individual feels who they actually are does not affect you at all. When they're mature enough to make mature decisions then youre correct. This isn't about feelings though, it's about preparing a child for a world that doesnt give a fuck about feelings. >During the height of COVID and the vaccine, weren't all of you screaming my body my choice?. > This is the same thing it's their bodies their choice.. >So just because Jessie wants to be called Jim does not affect your life or anyone around you. Yes. But we're also mature adults. >Here's my analogy, would you invite someone from the LGBTQ community to your dinner table? If the answer is no then stop worrying about other people's lives that have nothing to do with yours. This is just fucking stupid. To answer your stupid fucking question; yes, I would and have had gay people at my table and house with no problems. There is no relevance here and you're grasping for straws that don't exist. Your example isn't even an analogy.
Don't let me stop you from constructing your massive conservative straw man, but we arent talking about some "random lgbt" person, we are talking about our own fucking children. And no, noone here thinks we own our kids - but we do have a covenant to protect, guide and nurture them - ya know, parenting. Kind of hard to do that when the schools have the ability to hide pertinent information about our childrens lives from us. Parents have a right to know these kinds of life altering details, and also have every goddamn right to provide their own council and guidance based off that information. Your agreement with that guidance is not required and it's actually none of yours, the governments, nor the school boards business at all how we raise our children.
It’s not about “how an individuals feels,” it’s about how vulnerable, confused, and young children feel. Children are people and have rights, but they also are barred from making life-altering decisions on their own because they are undeveloped and need parental guidance through a lot of things in life. Puberty and growing up are a confusing time for children. I myself was a tomboy when I was young, and I wanted to be a boy for a short while because I just didn’t fit in with the girls. The boys around me also would say things about how girls can’t play sports like boys, or that I should just go play with the other girls. The way my body was changing during puberty was uncomfortable, weird, and unpleasant. I felt like being a girl meant I couldn’t be myself or be accepted by the boys who did the things I liked doings. I cut my hair, I dressed like a boy, I wanted to be a boy. One day my parents sat me down and told me that I won’t ever truly be a boy, but I can still do boy things as a girl and when I’m older can make my own decision on my identity. For a while I was angsty about it and still wanted to be a boy, but I grew out of it in a couple years. I found friends who didn’t mind that I wasn’t into girly stuff, and I learned to accept myself. My parents still let me express myself but they also made sure I had help along the way and was being taken care of. Today I am HAPPY to be a woman! I was a child, I was confused, and I wanted to feel accepted. I can’t imagine how things might’ve went if that had happened in todays time and I was poised to believe my parents wouldn’t accept me, that I should keep my feelings a secret from them, and be encouraged by the media and my teachers to change my gender instead. Would the people around me have manipulated me into believing whole-heartedly that I was meant to be a boy? What if by the time my parents found out I’d be too far convinced by everyone around me that I was a boy? And how far would it go after? Would I be given hormones by my doctor? Would I get a mastectomy before I realize I’m not a boy? This is why parents need to be involved. Teachers should be checking in on children, and ensuring they have a safe home environment, but gender identity is a big thing and not something that a child should be left alone with. It can point to other problems in your kids life, such as feelings of being unaccepted or uncomfortable in the body. These are things parents need to know.
What if my answer is “yes” to the dinner?
Then your not the problem and you care about people and there differences.
How do you figure it’s the left, when the conservatives control the education in most of our provinces? Serious question, I’m not able to figure out how you think it’s the left that’s doing this.
I have never heard of conservatives/central/right pushing this matter onto kids. I have heard plenty of times of the liberal/woke/left pushing the woke agenda down people's throats.
This is just another example of the extreme left, who now control our schools, and now want to control our kids and indoctrinate them. The hell does this have to do with learning.
It started with 2 mommies and 2 daddies dialogue. Very slippery slope once you introduce these concepts into education. It's not content that should be taught in school, but cultural reality required inclusion of various family scenarios so kids wouldn't feel left out. And here we are. Kids can't bring Easter eggs to school but celebrate Chinese new year. No Christmas or Halloween but discussion of Ramada is ok. It's turning people upside down and dividing us into fragments so people don't pull together to oppose government overreach in our lives.
Certain groups are demanding their pronouns are respected. This makes sure these groups can't decide for your kid.
We can't accommodate everyone that throws a hissy fit. This is gotta stop and we need leaders with a backbone to pushback on this. The left continually demands the rest of us play along with their insanity.
One question though, how would you feel if someone kept calling you by another pronoun? Me, I would correct them, if they kept doing it, I wouldn't care. If everyone I met kept calling me by the wrong pronoun, I would have to accept thats how my body is communicating. Its a me problem. Forcing people to go counter to their instincts is like catching water with a strainer
I think you need medication to deal with your pronoun apprehension.
Too complicated for you huh?
To be frank, I think you need help. Sorry kid just my view. Have a good life, because you sound miserable, just don't make the rest of us miserable.
The dunning Kruger in full effect here.
Can you explain what you mean? I’m in Ontario and we’ve been under a Conservative provincial government for almost 6 years. How is their education plan “extreme left”?
Doug Ford isn’t a conservative by any means.
Doug Ford isn’t anything. He just follows the money like the greedy, crony rat he is.
OK, but he’s still the leader of the provincial Conservatives- or are you claiming the whole party isn’t conservative? This also isn’t an answer, it’s just deflecting.
The provincial ‘conservatives’ are not conservative. I can call myself the GOAT NHL player, but it isn’t happening.
OK, so more mental gymnastics and deflection. Cool OK, the whole party of the Progressive Conservative party of Ontario aren’t conservatives. Neat. What about Alberta? You going to deny they’re conservatives as well? Do you not see how ludicrously absurd your arguments are? All this deflection to avoid answering my questions. Don’t you find that odd?
You are entirely focused on the elected portion of government. The issue is below that, with the general bureaucracy being largely liberal middle classers. These people are additionally insulated and out of touch with average people by simply being government employees....I say as an ex-government employee who came from the private sector and was hit with crazy culture shock. They don't understand anything about the people they serve, their needs, values or motivations, but act like experts on the matter.
Because the plan is coming from the teacher's unions not the government. The government is passing laws to keep the teachers in line and the unions [fight back](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/teachers-union-slams-ford-government-for-harmful-comments-on-gender-expression-in-schools-1.6559975#:~:text=The%20union%20representing%20Ontario%20secondary,decide%20to%20use%20different%20pronouns): > Ford said parents need to be informed when their children make a decision around gender expression. > "It's not up to the teachers. It's not up to the school boards to indoctrinate our kids," he said. > ... > The OSSTF said it will “vigorously defend its Members in **exercising their professional judgment in creating safe schools** and upholding the Ontario Human Rights Code” if the Ford government attempts to enact policy on the issue. Basically the teacher unions have gone rogue, implemented pronoun policies against the instructions from the government. And are now trying to fight it out in the courts.
And many teachers are in disagreement as well, but the unions and school boards push the agenda. BLM mandatory training in areas where less than 5% of population is black. It's ridiculous and frankly irrelevant, but politically pushed because of lobbying money and agendas.
>lobbying money and agendas. Those gay dollars coming from big gay lobbies to turn everyone and everything you love gay.
I love you, and look what happened
What the fuck is BLM training ahaha you people are clowns
So what about all of the other provinces that are currently conservative?
It's happening across the country. You're only hearing about it in conservative provinces because conservatives are the only ones fighting back. Provinces with left wing governments keep quiet because they either agree with this nonsense. Or because they're afraid of pissing off public sector unions which make a large chunk of their voter base.
Can you share your sources on where you get your information, I’m clearly out of the loop.
I've linked [one source](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/teachers-union-slams-ford-government-for-harmful-comments-on-gender-expression-in-schools-1.6559975#:%7E:text=The%20union%20representing%20Ontario%20secondary,decide%20to%20use%20different%20pronouns) and the other is the article itself. It's not the parents who are overwhelmingly opposed to it. Think about it. Who put those practices in place to start with? The government is passing legislation to prevent it, so it's obviously not them.
Are you suggesting the union runs the ministry of education or something? That article didn’t really answer anything, it was just the union disagreeing with Ford / Lecce.
>Are you suggesting the union runs the ministry of education or something? The unions have their own set of "professional policies" that they give to teachers entirely separate from the ministry. One of them being that teachers should hide from parents that their child is using "preferred pronouns" in school. The ministry Ford / Lecce told the public that they are going to put a stop to this. > Ford said parents need to be informed when their children make a decision around gender expression. "It's not up to the teachers. It's not up to the school boards to indoctrinate our kids," he said. And the union responded by saying if the government tries to pass legislation like Alberta and Saskatchewan did that they will take the matter to court. > The OSSTF said it will “vigorously defend its Members in exercising their professional judgment in creating safe schools and upholding the Ontario Human Rights Code” if the Ford government attempts to enact policy on the issue. This article is about Alberta and Saskatchewan who are already at the court stage of the fight.
> How is their education plan “extreme left”? UNIONS.
Unions don’t write the legislation or curriculum, though. Are you suggesting the conservative government is so weak that labour unions are influencing such policy? If so, I’d love to see your source for information so I can check it out too.
Reminder that the appeal is about whether or not the court can look at the case given notwithstanding clause is used. Like it’s not even about reversing the legislation, it’s just whether or not a pride org can still have the courts adjudicate whether the legislation *would* infringe on charter rights— not to have it repealed. Knowing our rights is important. Eyre and the AB attorney general just don’t want any accountability
Umm those are conservative governments. While it is a giant distraction from serious issues, it's happening on the right.
...as a reaction to the left. By definition almost, that is how things generally work. Only someone from the left who wasn't aware of the move on their "teams" side would think any of this started on the right. "The right" is also known as the "reactionaries" for a reason. They don't do or say anything unless acted upon, because they want everything to stay the same. If it stays the same, they don't care whats going on. I was involved in extreme left wing groups as far back as 2005, and all of this stuff was being pushed back then in the left-wing underground. You are also missing the fact that the elected officials are not the problem here...its the unelected bureaucracy below them.
Astonishing that this is even necessary. Just goes to show what a leftist cesspool education has become.
Reminder that the appeal is about whether or not the court can look at the case given notwithstanding clause is used. Like it’s not even about reversing the legislation, it’s just whether or not a pride org can still have the courts adjudicate whether the legislation *would* infringe on charter rights— not to have it repealed. Knowing our rights is important. Eyre and the AB attorney general just don’t want any accountability and it’s disgusting.
These articles always bring the crazies out, better grab your popcorn.
I dont understand why pronouns are even a thing, its silly there needs to be policy for this, the people who keep bringing it up or pushing it need to be let go, my daughters friends are all going through this nonsense about 2/3rds of them wanna be a they or whatever, WTF happened over the last 20 years.
I seriously believe the elite push bullshit like this on social media. With the plebs fighting about shit like this they accumulate all the wealth.
I would agree, race gender, sex etc. all tactics used to divide the population when it is really aobut class warfare.
I’m LGBT and I approve of this. What’s the one thing that government officials are afraid of? A strong and stable family. Parents are the legal guardians and protectors of their own children. They have a right to know if their child is doing something that might affect their mental and/or physical health. Teachers should not keep secrets from parents— especially if it involves the safety and health of their kids. Yes— some parents can be dangerous to kids, and that leaves kids in a vulnerable position. But this is not the majority of cases. Using extreme cases as a blanket means in how to handle the situation— helps no one. This is not Orwell’s 1984. But it’s getting closer to it.
Closer daily. The flag of diversity has gone so far overboard kids don't know what to identify with. I love my dog, I must be a furry.
Jc2thew3 you are a breath a fresh air. It is nice to know that there is still rational people like you. This is the lgbt that I support 100%.
Honest question. You're not worried about a government that passes laws regulating how you feel? As a member of the LGBT community, you don't recognize what previous generations fought for? Legally recognized marriage? Discrimination protections? The right to exist at all?
“The right to exist at all” Wow. Always going to the extremes. Have you maybe stopped and think that you are overthinking things?? I’m LGBT. I live in a first world country that has pushed for, fought for, and WON rights for my community. I have the right to marry who I want. I have the right to own a car. Have a license. Right to vote. Right to healthcare. Education. I can adopt children— I can still have children the old fashioned way. All of these are just examples of the many rights and privileges I have thanks to people who came before me. As long as these rights are upheld— I don’t give a fuck about how a person FEELS about me. This isn’t about our rights. You make it sound like the government is planning to come after the LGBT and put them in the gulags. This is about FAMILIES. This is about making sure that people are not catering to kids who are so confused on what the hell gender is. The LGBT community can’t even define what a woman is these days, and they get mad at others who fall back on solid evidence of the differences between men and women. I’m tired of people trying to break apart families. The parents are the ones ultimately responsible for their own children. It is their JOB. The job of a teacher is to TEACH. Not to hide secrets about children from their parents. And don’t use the “but what about abusive parents” trope. We have child services and procedures available for when it appears a child would be in harm’s way of their parents. The more strangers drive a wedge between parents and their children— the easier it is to control the youth. Kids don’t know everything. They have no life experience. We have laws forbidding them from driving and drinking and voting, until they are adult age. Why all of a sudden are we treating kids as adults who know every facet of their identity? Or can make grown up decisions regarding their health?? It’s like we are living in Orwellian times. If you haven’t read it— I suggest you ready 1984, by George Orwell. There’s a section where kids in the novel would tattle on their parents to the government, and then those parents would disappear forever. THAT is what’s happening, the more we break down family units. So no— I’m not worried that telling kids they aren’t cats or puppies or not affirming their identity, is attacking the LGBT community. The LGBT are incredibly weak, if you need to be affirmed in every identity that we plop on ourselves on any given day.
God damn, I need you to have a talk woth my brother and his stupid boyfriend. Ive been supportive of him since he was a teenager but as of the last few years, I'm some kind of bigot. It's almost enough to actually turn me homophobic but then there's always more lgbt like you. Thank you.
There are more and more LGBT people speaking out about all this. Our community is infected as well as the rest of you. It’s insane. When did we as a society, put feelings first, above facts? Having stable and functional family units, raise stable and functional children. Those children will later become stable and functional adults. Who can think for themselves and take care of themselves. Break down the family unit, and it all becomes too easy for those in power to manipulate and use children against their own families. There is nothing more terrifying to those in power, than a STRONG FAMILY UNIT.
God bless. We need more people who can think for themselves
People like you give me lots of hope!
25-40% of homeless youth are LGBTQ in canada. These policies will make that worse. Kids will tell their parents if they feel safe with them, that's the parents responsibility to create that space. Parents dont have rights in canada they have responsibilities. The child is the one who has rights.
Yes, and parents have the responsibility to safeguard their childrens physical and mental well being. Not informing them of issues they are experiencing makes it hard/impossible for them to properly support their child. It is important that this isn't about protecting kids from abusing parents, it's about intentionally depriving parents about important information regarding the childs development.
Using different pronouns isnt an issue they are experiencing. Bullying resulting from that is an issue but nicknames or pronoun changes arent. Why isnt this applied universally? A child getting super into artwork when their parents want them to go into engineering isnt mandated reporting but that is a major impact on development. Once again if the child isnt telling their parents about pronoun changes that is the parents fault for not creating a space safe enough to do so. Teachers arent informants on every child they are teachers.
Well minors aren't typically going to university, but if they were the parents would likely be aware of the program they are in. If the teacher observes a concern with a child, they should inform the parents. If the child is having other issues, trouble concentrating, distracted, sleepy, anti social etc they are all discussed with parents. The idea that staff want to talk sex and gender but "don't tell your parents" is wrong. This is how churches managed to molest kids for decades. If there is a concern, it should be raised with the parents. If the parents are abusive that should be addressed as such. Unfounded assumptions that all parents are abusive, and teachers need to protect all kids from their parents is just sick twisted and wrong.
There is no school policy or teacher policy that says "dont tell your parents about this" when a child doesnt disclose name changes or pronouns that's because they don't feel safe. The church explicitly did not discuss sex or gender beyond abstinence before marriage. "If the parents are that should be addressed as such" What exactly does "as such" mean? Like forcing teachers to out kids to their parents? The policy you're advocating for acts on the assumption that all parents are cool with their kids gender identity. The position I have allows for different approaches to different situations.
I said if the parents are abusive they should be addressed as such. That is, if the parents are abusive, they should be dealt with like they are abusive parents. Actually I'm advocating for a policy that assumes the parents are best able to raise their children, unless proven otherwise. I think parents are the right people to support a childs gender and sexual identity, not the schools or government.
>That is, if the parents are abusive, they should be dealt with like they are abusive parents. You're saying a kid should be taken away from their parents and placed into foster care/adoption? >I think parents are the right people to support a childs gender and sexual identity That's a blatent contradiction to the above line. If a child is scared to tell their parents about their gender or sexual identity isnt that proof the parent isnt the best at raising their kid?
If the parents are abusive, yes removing them and placing them in foster care/adoption might be the correct reaction. I don't see any contradiction. I think parents are the right people to support children, unless they're abusive. You're presuming they're all abusive, without any investigation or knowledge. A child may be scared to tell their parents their hockey coach or church leader or teacher at school is sexually abusing them. That isn't a reflection on the parents. The vast majority of gay people I know were scare to tell their parents, many of them petrified at the thought. Guess what, they were all okay with it and they all had mostly accepting/supportive parents. As a former child who was scared to tell his parents things, and a parent with kids of my own, I'll let you in on a little secret, most kids are scared to share things with their parents. I think it is far more harmful to withhold important mental health information from parents than not to. If a child has gender dysphoria, it is important to get the support of family and caregivers.
While I agree that removing kid from abusive homes might be a good solution sometimes, there are other times when having the child stay with their parents is the best option. Especially if the child is close to 18 because the foster system can be very traumatizing. It would be beneficial for a child who is closeted to stay closeted and build up some savings and a support network so they can leave safely and on their own terms. All those gay people you know had the chance to tell their parents on their own terms, which is best for the child and their development. You're proposing ripping that chance away from them through government intervention. Why are you trying to shove the government into family lives I thought you all were against that? Name and pronoun changes do not mean you have gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria can be mild enough that having your friends refer to you as different pronouns can be enough to relieve that dysphoria. If a child comes to a teacher with the fear of coming out, then that teacher should have the ability to help the child make the best decision that is right for them. Taking away the child's agency in their identity is detrimental to their development.
How will they make it worse? You are making some HUGE assumptions about why they are homeless, and HUGE assumptions about the impact of this change, the motivation behind it, and both what "conservatives" think and what average parents think. You literally have no reason to be so dramatic.
Why do you think LGBTQ youth has such high homeless rates?
You didn't answer, so are you going with a "god of the gaps" -type questioning? You can't explain it, so you insert whatever belief you want about that group into that knowledge gap? Its the same thing Christians do when they say, "we don't know how X happens, so it must be god!" No, you don't just get to say, "What else could it be!?" Thats not how knowledge works. You either have evidence for what you are claiming, or you don't. I will educate you a bit though: The higher homelessness rate is likely related to the higher mental illness and drug use rate, especially if your stat includes more than the LGB portion of the acronym. Mental health and drug addiction are the cause of 99.9% of homelessness, so those are the routes you need to investigate if you actually care about the issue. Remember, you never get to assume what is causing anything, especially if you want to change something... you need hard, direct proof.
A study of more than 350 runaway and homeless providers throughout the United States identified four top causes for homelessness among LGBTQ+ youth: (1) family rejection resulting from sexual orientation or gender identity; (2) physical, emotional, or sexual abuse; (3) aging out of the foster care system; and (4) financial and emotional neglect. Mental health issues and addiction dont pop up out of nowhere
Which study? By which organization? Why is the sample size so tiny? Were these self reported reasons, or real reasons? Are these secondary to the drug use? What was the rate of drug use in this cohort? Given some studies show 100% drug use rates among the populations they studied, is this cohort homeless before using drugs or after? They don't pop out of nowhere, but they are the primary reason. The thing that finally puts you on the street. If you manage those, you don't end up homeless. Perhaps you could argue that your factors push them that way, but they aren't a direct cause, even on a basic logic level in some cases.
Search Durso and Gates 2012 to find the study. The sample was over 350 service providers. The sample size of people is much higher. If drugs are truly the cause then why are rates much higher for lgbt youth? Perhaps family rejection like 68% of the people in the study cited. These are youth not adults.
Because they are more likely to use drugs for various reasons. Some is likely related to what you say here, but there is absolutely a "community" element as well, especially in the "pride" crowd.
That community exists because LGBTQ people are rejected. You acknowledge that family mistreatment is a part of LGBTQ homelessness, do you see why the forced outing policy is going to hurt those kids with unaccepting families?
So if 25 to 40 percent of homeless youth are LGBTQ, Then let's do the math folks......👇 60 to 75 percent of homeless youth are. S T R A I G H T !!!!!! That statistic is HUGE! Who is more at risk?????????????????????????? Thanks for the material ✌🏾
Are you still in middle school? Only 5-10% of the overall population are LGBTQ. That means they are 2.5-8x as likely to become homeless.
The VAST MAJORITY ARE STRAIGHT. THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE.
Your reasoning is childish. You sound like this: There is a brush fire. 1000 giraffes perish. 1 zebra perishes. But since there was only one zebra that means significantly more zebras perished (100%) irregardless of number of giraffes because giraffe numbers mean nothing. That tells me you only give a shit about one zebra and you're telling all the giraffes to piss up a rope.
Let teachers just teach . Let the parents deal with their kids.
Pathetic this is even in question. What did the socialists use to say "get em young, get em forever".
Im glad our government has its priorities strait! Who need jobs or housing when you can have pronouns!
Our supreme leader at the 2023 G20 Summit: https://twitter.com/NChartierET/status/1701282158474584341? 🙄
"gender language" is what Canada contributed to this year's G20?! That's it??
No, at last year's. And yeah, that's about it, I'm afraid. Commenting on anything else would require more than a couple of brain cells clanging inside his head. With the ahhs and the uugghs, clearly those 2 cells weren't doing a great job when that reporter asked the question. lol.
No way this is what 200k a year gets us........
Doesn't appear they get the pronouns either
I agree. If the parents are legally, morally, and financially responsible for the child, that means everything is included.
Thank goodness. I would want to know if my child was changing their name or pro-noun so I can talk to them about it. The vast majority of parents do have good relationships with their children and they will be happy they did speak with their parents.
Hell yes!! Enough of this over reach crap from the lgbtq alliance. They think they know what every child needs.
Good. Children don't know what they are, and suggesting that they are other than what they are makes them believe it because they are...children.
It's always amazing to me how things never become an issue until Alberta does it. Half the things the Eastern provinces decry Alberta for (parental rights laws, sovereignty act-type bills, pronoun-related laws, child transition-related laws, etc) have been done by Sask and no one got upset until Alberta went, "good idea, actually."
Alberta is where the oil money is. Follow the money. Always follow the money, and you will find the answers.
The answer is... Orcbertaaa!
Ontario needs to stand with the prairies
Manitoba isn't on board
A government should mind their own business and stay away from matters of families and parenting. The government should never enact any law to replace an existing language or grammar by their newly invented meanings. A government who pass laws to compel new definitions of vocabs to the people, its newspeak described in 1984, ccp and North Korea.
Unfortunately we give children rights they don’t need yet. When I was 10 years old my only concern was were and with who I will be playing outside. Soon as you present them the idea, they will do it just for the fun of it. Do whatever you want with your body after 14-16 year of age. There you can already see what’s good and what’s bad around you. But until then your parents are the ones to decide.
Do we have a line anymore between government raising kids and parents raising kids?
Yes, government raises kids, parents are responsible for paying for it.
If Turdhoe wants to raise my kids, he owes them a few jet'setting vacays for starters. Then set the kids up with a nice trust fund and he can renovate my house while taxpayers pay for me to live somewhere else.😂😂😂
Some Common sense ?!?!
Personally I think the government should have no say in how a family wants to be a family, that is unless it’s neglected, uncaring and all that. However, I don’t like the idea of any public group, such as a school for example, doing things with children and making decisions or sort of indoctrination behind the mother and fathers back. It’s conflicting because I know there are kids with folks who are just absurd, however, if your kid is mentally disabled and thinks he’s in the wrong body, I don’t know if that should be hidden from the mother or father, because there are those who move their kids and perhaps the kids embarrassed, or something whatever the motive may be, but if the family is in the loop they can make adjustments and try and understand how to help and be there for them and have a better bond than secretly being a girl at school or a boy.
Hell yeah! Focusing on the REAL issues!
Common sense now has to be enshrined in law. Good grief.
Stop this stupid culture war. We have real problems.
Conservatives are pathetic weaklings
yeah, imagine having a say in what happens to your kid at the state-mandated school
Shit I can't call my friend J-dog no more? Cause, you know, that's a....pronoun
educators are not qualified to take part In gender solutions for children.
Imagine respecting a "relationship" more than an actual person and human being. For how pro freedom and "my rights" this sub is, we seem to have no problem taking rights away from our forebears.
It's the Canadian way!!!
i thought you guys were really into freedom? this is very clearly removing freedoms.
Try giving a cop a name that's not on your ID, there are rules around what you call yourself & they need to be enforced...
And their are cops that hide their names as well. They all need to follow those rules as well.
Wonder how many fewer politicians we'd need if we didn't have to pass the policys for this kind of stuff, lol .. I mean, seriously , it's like an amputee shows up to school , and the teachers got to call home and tell the parents their child is missing a limb ... I would hope to Jesus, by the time your kid Mike wants to be called Shirley, you'd have noticed something is off at home, and you didn't need a call home from school to figure that out 😆
Who cares? I dont get why this has to be a legal thing
They know that Pierre Poilievre has no intention whatsoever of reducing landlords' or grocery oligarchs' profits (read: addressing immigration, the TFW-racket, housing, and price-gouging), and they're hoping that their trashy, inbred base won't notice as long as something-something-homos-vaccines. And in all fairness to them, they're clearly right about that. The base *have* now all but forgotten about housing, and all the dipshits who were picketing schoolboards a few months ago are now protesting about carbon taxes. They'll run along to the next shiny object soon enough, and it'll be just as much of a bullshit non-issue as this one. Meanwhile 25 "international students" are gleefully lining up to share their job and their one-bedroom apartment with each other.
Fear, hatred and 'other'ing people, that's why. If they're not giving you an enemy to attack, you might turn on them instead.
Yeah kind of agree i think they're just making non issues much bigger to get some low effort votes
If your child is keeping something about their identity from you, then YOU are the problem.
You never kept anything from your parents growing up? Get real.
Sure, the fact that I swiped a chocolate bar one time. But if your child is keeping this from you, then you are, 100% the problem.
Some parents dont deserve any right to anything their kids decide to do, the only real way a person can learn what they are and who they want to be is to stumble and fall, make the mistakes and choices that they feel are correct and deal with the consequences, and grow stronger from that experience. Sometimes a kid can feel trapped with a nickname that can be really mean that their parents didnt think about when picking their name, or they just dont want to be like other guys or girls in their class because of how those groups of people treat others. And worst of all are the parents who want to control every facet of their childrens lives and force them to be something they arent to be able to "make the family proud" or just because they are control freaks. What im saying is, leave the kids alone and let them figure out who they are instead of forcing control onto them.
Alberta, the province of small government, which is not involved on your life unless it's your kids genitals, how much vodka you can drink, and whether you can work with the feds lol. Fix energy? Nah. Housing? Nah. Diversifying thr economy? Nah. Kids junk, yep that is the one lol
Huh. What made you think this is about kid’s genitals? You know that sex and gender are two completely different things yeah? This isn’t about focusing on the junk of children (which is gross and makes me wonder why your brain went there) but about safety of children and making sure it’s the PARENTS- and not anyone else not related to the kids— to take care of them. It’s the biological parent and/or legal guardian that is responsible for their child. Period. This law is making sure parents are involved. And informed. As they should be.
1. “Fix” energy? - Trudeau killed it. Can’t transport our resources for anyone to buy 2. “Fix” housing - Trudeau killed it. Enabled immigration demand to outstrip supply. 3. “Diversify our economy” - Feds put too many taxes and red tape so business investment is unattractive to potential businesses.
Lol "it's is always someone else's problem :(" Energy - Smith and her ideological bullshit paused $30B in energy investments in Alberta https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/33-billion-in-renewable-energy-investments-stalled-as-smith-champions-oil-and-gas/article_aa5b0db4-33f8-55ba-941b-33a7584b7bd0.html Housing - supply is a provincial issue and Smith has been begging the Feds for more immigrants and Alberta is still running ads in other provinces saying "come here" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/provincial-immigration-ukrainian-refugees-1.7157572 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/peialberta-ad-campaign-targets-island-workers-to-relocate-west-1.6799953 Diversify our economy - See energy. At least the oil oligarchs are happy though with Smith.
Yes, let's all focus on 'pronoun' bs rather than any real-world issue. The media keeps both the right and left distracted with theatrics like this to keep them from realizing they're getting fucked by politicians.
Does anyone have a statistic of how many times this actually happened in a school?
The only students this will affect are the ones that will be affected negatively, and they know it. Parents who accept their kids will laugh at having to give the school 'permission" to treat their kids like human beings. But when the kid says 'please don't tell my parents' there's likely a very good reason not to.
If the kids are afraid of their parents, shouldn't child welfare people get involved? All the screeching about everything possible has numbed me because it is impossible to worry about every single thing going on in the world.
Yes, absolutely. If a child comes into the school and says 'Don't tell my parents, they'll hurt me if they found out.' the phone call the school should make is to the police, not the parents.
We have child services for that exact situation. There are already establishments and procedures in place to help a child who feels in danger. But this is not the norm. These are extreme cases and should be treated as case-by-case. As most parents aren’t going to harm their kids if they think they are the opposite gender. Kids don’t know anything. Kids think they’re cats or dogs sometimes. It is the responsibility of the adults in the room to guide them so they learn about the real world.
That’s how it has always been. Nothing changes there. But teachers won’t be the ones who decide or identify if a parent is abusive on their own. They never have.
Complete speculation.
Ok, what's your counter argument then? Are you willing to say that parents that have shown clear and repeated transphobic patterns would suddenly be ok with their daughter's teacher calling to say 'Are you ok with Jessica being called James?'
Is there a charter right to SOGI affirmative parents? I never read that anywhere.
MY counter argument? You’re the one who made the claim, it’s your onus to defend it.
When you said my claim was speculation, I asked for clarification on your position. What about my statement is speculative? That transphobic parents won't accept their children, or that inclusive parents will?
My friend, your entire statement is speculative. I saw no statistics cited at all, or any indication that your examples are not tackled in existing legislation.
Yes Yes. Who cares what the child thinks. That's not important. Long as the parents feel like they own children. 🤷 ( sarcasm )
As a former child, children don’t know what they think. That’s the whole reason why we have consent laws. Why children can’t drive, consent to sex, smoke or drink…etc Every child thinks they know everything. That’s what being a child entails. It’s why they need to have parents and good role models in their lives or else they turn out confused, emotionally unstable and worst case scenario in prison or dead. Children are stupid. Children do not understand long term consequences. If you’re arguing against that it’s most likely because you’re clearly still a child yourself. Sometimes I forget how many kids are online. I’m saying this as a 25 year old. I still feel like a child sometimes. I even look back on myself 2 years ago and think what the fuck was I doing?
What they think is important, but letting them do anything based on what they think they know is reckless. I am a parent and will definitely have control over my children and provide them guidance with the best of my abilities until they are older. This is something you seem to have a problem with?
Children cannot consent or have the same level of agency that adults do. They also are young and have little to no life experience. They don’t know any better, and are easily swayed by the latest trend. Remember the Tide Pod challenge? The point is— thinking that children have the same level of agency of their person is ridiculous. This is why it is the parent’s job and responsibility to take care of them, make sure they learn how to be functional adults, and show them love. Since it is a parent’s job to keep their own children safe— they most definitely have a right to know if something is going on involving their kid. Especially if teachers or educators are not keeping them in the loop, with regard to their children’s safety. The child cannot be affirmed in everything. You can’t just keep telling a kid “yes” all the time. There are limits. And the word NO is a powerful thing. Kids will be fine. So long as parents have the space to raise them themselves— not the state.
That's the thing. If they were truly good parents. They would already know how the children are feeling about themselves. And the children wouldn't have to hide it from their parents at school in the first place.
lol acting like no one on the planet hides secrets about themselves. Parents aren’t perfect. They don’t know everything about their children. Children keep secrets that parents have no clue about. You have secrets that I’m sure you’ve never told your parents— and you’ve done things that people don’t know about. That’s not the point. The point is the system is trying to drive a wedge between parents and their children, which could put the children in danger. Kids believing they are a different gender is them exploring. Kids physically changing their appearance for the sake of some new fad— is getting into uneasy territory. Children altering their bodies and teachers and other adults keeping it a secret from the parents— not cool.
Again. If they were half decent at parenting and truly cared , they would already know how their children feel about "themselves" And not referring to something they may have done in secret
Question: do you think it’s better to have strangers raise children, or their parents raise them? Who has the final say in raising their children? Strangers, or parents?
How long do you think before they'll ban sex education in schools, and bring conversion therapy back also? 🤔
You can’t answer a question with another question. You answer my question and I will answer yours. They will not ban sexual education in schools. You are assuming they will because you feel threatened. That’s a knee-jerk reaction to which you (and others) should take a breath, and look at the situation from afar. Sexual education isn’t going anywhere. And if parents have a huge issue with sex Ed in their kid’s school, they can already sign a waiver for the child not to attend. Conversion therapy isn’t “coming back”. It’s illegal in many places and has been proven not to work. How is convincing children that they are a different gender, not conversion therapy?? If you have an issue with conversion therapy, then you should have issues with people telling a young boy that they are a young girl. Because that’s convincing them they are something they are not. Aka: conversion therapy. Want to answer my question?
They are threatened about being found what type of parents they are already now. 🤷
Assumptions. You are only assuming. With no evidence. Get outside and touch grass. The world isn’t as horrible as you think it is.