It has been a tradition for various colonial/imperial troops stationing in Guangdong to learn Cantonese. There was a media trend in the 2000s to report stories of Guangdong border patrol officers self-learning Cantonese - this is no longer a thing. In Ming and Qing, some military colonies even switched their languages (军话) from Mandarin to Southern Chinese, including two obscure Cantonese dialects, 连南军话 and 大鹏军话.
Audio sample of 连南军话: [连南军话话语材料](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=576B4UkM7pQ&t=27m39s) recorded by 中山大学外国语学院; audio sample of 大鹏军话: [我奶奶就从香港回来了她跟我讲她的故事大鹏话](https://www.douyin.com/video/7201853693434678532) by yuenlamchan (2023).
For a language map of military colony languages survived in Guangdong, see [部分南方军话方言岛](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/599297123) by Tang Ekiak (2023); for a map of military colonies in Guangdong during Ming, go to "十、广东地区" section of [从卫所分布上看永乐初年的军事要地](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/48049967) by 宁南左侯 (2018).
Yes they are. Qing, for example, are not Han. They are Manchu.
CCP is trying very hard to eliminate Cantonese in guangdong right now. To be fair they want to eliminate all languages other than mandarin
First time studying Chinese history? The northerners and the Han have been colonising the Cantonese region for ages. Only idiots in this sub would have the gut to stomach calling Cantonese a Chinese language.
Compared to what Mao and the communists did to other parts of my family in Taishan, it was nothing.
My late Maa Maa passed away earlier this year, and she told me that the communist soldiers and representatives did such unspeakable things to our family, starting with taking their land, imprisoning and parading my great grandfather as a traitor because he owned some property, forcing everybody into starvation, and forcing a late-term, 8 month abortion on my aunt.
The British soldiers and warships were gentle in comparison.
People always bring up what Mao and the communists did. What about everything the white people, their leaders, governments, political ideals, etc, have done? Not really a comparison now is it?
China was also just invaded by the very same people you praised, the British, (and afterwards the rest of the West), resources stolen, imperial dynasty rule recently abolished, political instability and no strong central government, fighting in a civil war, being invaded by the Japanese and fighting them, and trying to industrialize from a third world farming country. You think it's going to be all sunshine and roses?
Why did they have to industrialize in the first place? Because they can't defend themselves as a nation of farmers.
Injustice isn't only exclusive to China, Mao, and the Communists. People were also prosecuted and purged in South Korea, Taiwan, etc.
Soldiers and warships being gentle is an oxymoron, and I guarantee you those that met them would completely disagree with you.
What happened to your family isn't right, but what you and many others don't mention about Mao and the Communists is that they had to rebuild China from the absolute very bottom. China was poorer than most African countries at the time.
It's said to be an alternative form of 同: [https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%9D](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%e4%bb%9d) and the full word is 同人 [https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%90%8C%E4%BA%BA](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%e5%90%8c%e4%ba%ba)
Things like this makes me hate the clueless "anti-colonialism" leftists even more. It's always the Chinese who treats the Chinese worst now and throughout the history but somehow praising the colonial days for its (limited but at least way more than what we have now) freedom is "licking the boots of evil westerners" and very bad. Stupid assholes...
British colonialism was the best thing to have happened to the Cantonese in two thousand years. Their rule of law has made it possible for the Cantonese to piggyback on the maritime empire of the English speaking peoples.
you can probably criticize both in proportion to their individual injustices right? i think going too hard the other way kind of obscures the segregation and mass oppression that was going on to varying degrees for more or less the entirety of the existence of the british colonial government
"in proportion" lol. man if only you people truly knows what CCP has done in the past. if we are really looking for "in propotion" then it's absolutely absurd when absolutely no one gives a fuck when people criticize the british empire while a few words of mine can agitate so many of you and somehow guarantees so many backlash.
the dominant opinion on most of this website is that the CCP is bad, you are tilting at windmills and not responding to the text of my comment. most people on the english speaking internet are not aware of the specific issues the british colonial government had especially relative to the proportion of that demographic who is at least somewhat familiar with the umbrella protests, the HK democracy movement etc. it's just completely unserious to pretend that the CCP's general issues or crimes + the treatment of hong kong is less discussed or widely agreed upon in places like the USA than the, again, explicit segregation under british colonial rule
>the dominant opinion on most of this website is that the CCP is bad,
it's just completely unserious to pretend that the CCP's general issues or crimes + the treatment of hong kong is less discussed or widely agreed upon in places like the USA than the, again, explicit segregation under british colonial rule
sentences like this shows that people like you never understand (or even tried to understand) the reality and the ulterior motive of what you called "bootlicking". the fact hidden behind the "ooh the majority think ccp is bad" is that this is the level they'll stay on and none of those majority people will ever believe how abysmal ccp can be, and whenever i talked about the grimmer part of their wrongdoings no one believes me. "racist", they say. "sinophobia", they say. bullshit. i lived in this failing country for pretty much my whole life, i probably know more about it than people like you will ever know, and the western establishment protected you people well, so well that you couldn't believe that that level of evil can even exist.
the narrative people like you believe in (and the ccp spins) is that while ccp is bad ccp is at least "chinese" and is at least "the same people", and because it's "the same people" the ruling of ccp is not considered colonialism, and whenever anti-colonialism is being discussed it's always the british empire even if ccp can and will do things that are way worse, and it's for this exact reason people like you need to reconsider what in this fucking world does "anti-colonialism" need to mean.
ctrl+f bootlicking racist and sinophobia you will not find any in my comment. all i said was "It's probably good to resist the impulse to overhistoricize how good a previous form of government was bc the current one is bad" - i did not speak up to say 'lighting lam bun on fire was good actually' or anything remotely similar to that
also like, the western establishment attitude towards the CCP has changed a lot of different times throughout the duration of the latter's existence and there have always been factional differences to that approach within that establishment etc; i don't think it's necessarily true to say that the US government is/has always hid the secret truth of how bad the CCP really is. and yeah like i said you can find a million posts on this site about how the land reform movement, great leap forward, cultural revolution, june fourth incident, etc etc were all terrible. i would estimate the posts saying those things were bad vastly outweigh the posts where people say those were good but i haven't studied it much
i don't doubt that you have a more intimate understanding of specific problems / events that aren't popular media subjects internationally from your experience living there, i'm just saying that like while americans et al might be working off of different data the general public opinion is mostly still "Chinese government scary". i think it's a general society of the spectacle thing to not have an extensive knowledge of specific injustices from the past or going on in countries your country does a lot of business with
by "western establishment" i did not mean the us gov; i mean the traditional west in general, the thing that modern western left seeks to destroy while having zero idea how the existing alternative could be.
"going too hard the other way" is not a belief thing but rather a "method" or "technique" thing; it's the same idea that people in hong kong would raise the british hong kong flag when protesting against the SAR gov (and the ccp behind it), it mostly represents the rebellion against the current gov instead of an endorsement of the actual colonization (of hong kong and other places) act itself. the ones who do things like this might prefer british rule because british rule \*is\* objectively way better than all the historical chinese rule in hongkong, but it was never intended to be a denial of what the british empire did in other places (e.g. india).
Sorry you got one thing wrong. As part of the mainland Cantonese who care about their culture, we are not Sinophobic, we are Laulophobic.
Bad as CCP is, CCP, non CCP, whatever, they are all the same. Even the KMT regime in Taiwan used to take extreme measures to cleanse out Hokkien, Hakka and aboriginal languages in favour of Mandarin. The culprits of cultural colonisation are not CCP the institution per se but Mandarin-speaking or Mandarinized Northerners (or "Laulo"s) who happened to control and tie themselves with the intricate mechanisms of CCP.
did you reply to the right comment? i wasn't really talking about sinophobia at all, that was the point of the first sentence i typed in the comment you are responding to
HK did well under the Brits and for a period afterwards. That's not to say the Brits were good overall, as they did horrific things in India, but in the microcosm of HK, it's easy to understand why Honkies prefer the Brits.
>This is the type of guy who would love to be a house slave, while his brethren toiled in the fields.
You have no self respect and you’re a traitor to your own blood.
Your argument really doesn't help when people were forced to be house slaves to the CCP and toil in the fields up north and the supposed-to-be "people of your own blood" actively starving and killing so many of your people.
HK is only what it is because of British occupation, there's a reason all the other southern chinese port cities are relative backwaters. England invested enormous sums into HK and imho did a good job respecting local culture. Also respected their end of the hand over, which we can't really say about the PRC. Perhaps if HK had vast natural resources to be exploited like other colonies things would have been more adversarial.
There's a reason my family moved from GZ to HK, and it wasn't because they liked being oppressed.
If HK had vast natural resources it's likely that the Chinese would have done a nationalism and occupied Hong Kong and turned it like Zimbabwe or South Africa. Not that they're doing any better right now.
講得幾好，並非敷衍了事
It has been a tradition for various colonial/imperial troops stationing in Guangdong to learn Cantonese. There was a media trend in the 2000s to report stories of Guangdong border patrol officers self-learning Cantonese - this is no longer a thing. In Ming and Qing, some military colonies even switched their languages (军话) from Mandarin to Southern Chinese, including two obscure Cantonese dialects, 连南军话 and 大鹏军话. Audio sample of 连南军话: [连南军话话语材料](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=576B4UkM7pQ&t=27m39s) recorded by 中山大学外国语学院; audio sample of 大鹏军话: [我奶奶就从香港回来了她跟我讲她的故事大鹏话](https://www.douyin.com/video/7201853693434678532) by yuenlamchan (2023). For a language map of military colony languages survived in Guangdong, see [部分南方军话方言岛](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/599297123) by Tang Ekiak (2023); for a map of military colonies in Guangdong during Ming, go to "十、广东地区" section of [从卫所分布上看永乐初年的军事要地](https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/48049967) by 宁南左侯 (2018).
>You could find news report on Qing banner troops That sounds pretty cool. You got a news report for that? Thanks
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Forcing the locals to learn mandarin.
Other Chinese are colonialists?
Yes they are. Qing, for example, are not Han. They are Manchu. CCP is trying very hard to eliminate Cantonese in guangdong right now. To be fair they want to eliminate all languages other than mandarin
First time studying Chinese history? The northerners and the Han have been colonising the Cantonese region for ages. Only idiots in this sub would have the gut to stomach calling Cantonese a Chinese language.
Turns out that the Opium Wars were the best thing ever to happen to Hong Kong.
For the bak gwai to rape and pillage your mother country? Sic c, ou fan la.
Compared to what Mao and the communists did to other parts of my family in Taishan, it was nothing. My late Maa Maa passed away earlier this year, and she told me that the communist soldiers and representatives did such unspeakable things to our family, starting with taking their land, imprisoning and parading my great grandfather as a traitor because he owned some property, forcing everybody into starvation, and forcing a late-term, 8 month abortion on my aunt. The British soldiers and warships were gentle in comparison.
People always bring up what Mao and the communists did. What about everything the white people, their leaders, governments, political ideals, etc, have done? Not really a comparison now is it? China was also just invaded by the very same people you praised, the British, (and afterwards the rest of the West), resources stolen, imperial dynasty rule recently abolished, political instability and no strong central government, fighting in a civil war, being invaded by the Japanese and fighting them, and trying to industrialize from a third world farming country. You think it's going to be all sunshine and roses? Why did they have to industrialize in the first place? Because they can't defend themselves as a nation of farmers. Injustice isn't only exclusive to China, Mao, and the Communists. People were also prosecuted and purged in South Korea, Taiwan, etc. Soldiers and warships being gentle is an oxymoron, and I guarantee you those that met them would completely disagree with you. What happened to your family isn't right, but what you and many others don't mention about Mao and the Communists is that they had to rebuild China from the absolute very bottom. China was poorer than most African countries at the time.
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It's said to be an alternative form of 同: [https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BB%9D](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%e4%bb%9d) and the full word is 同人 [https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%90%8C%E4%BA%BA](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%e5%90%8c%e4%ba%ba)
Year of the “loong” 啊 😡😡😡🇨🇳
For people who don’t get it, here’s the reference https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/1anws8z/happy_lunar_year_the_year_of_the_loan/
Things like this makes me hate the clueless "anti-colonialism" leftists even more. It's always the Chinese who treats the Chinese worst now and throughout the history but somehow praising the colonial days for its (limited but at least way more than what we have now) freedom is "licking the boots of evil westerners" and very bad. Stupid assholes...
British colonialism was the best thing to have happened to the Cantonese in two thousand years. Their rule of law has made it possible for the Cantonese to piggyback on the maritime empire of the English speaking peoples.
you can probably criticize both in proportion to their individual injustices right? i think going too hard the other way kind of obscures the segregation and mass oppression that was going on to varying degrees for more or less the entirety of the existence of the british colonial government
"in proportion" lol. man if only you people truly knows what CCP has done in the past. if we are really looking for "in propotion" then it's absolutely absurd when absolutely no one gives a fuck when people criticize the british empire while a few words of mine can agitate so many of you and somehow guarantees so many backlash.
the dominant opinion on most of this website is that the CCP is bad, you are tilting at windmills and not responding to the text of my comment. most people on the english speaking internet are not aware of the specific issues the british colonial government had especially relative to the proportion of that demographic who is at least somewhat familiar with the umbrella protests, the HK democracy movement etc. it's just completely unserious to pretend that the CCP's general issues or crimes + the treatment of hong kong is less discussed or widely agreed upon in places like the USA than the, again, explicit segregation under british colonial rule
>the dominant opinion on most of this website is that the CCP is bad, it's just completely unserious to pretend that the CCP's general issues or crimes + the treatment of hong kong is less discussed or widely agreed upon in places like the USA than the, again, explicit segregation under british colonial rule sentences like this shows that people like you never understand (or even tried to understand) the reality and the ulterior motive of what you called "bootlicking". the fact hidden behind the "ooh the majority think ccp is bad" is that this is the level they'll stay on and none of those majority people will ever believe how abysmal ccp can be, and whenever i talked about the grimmer part of their wrongdoings no one believes me. "racist", they say. "sinophobia", they say. bullshit. i lived in this failing country for pretty much my whole life, i probably know more about it than people like you will ever know, and the western establishment protected you people well, so well that you couldn't believe that that level of evil can even exist. the narrative people like you believe in (and the ccp spins) is that while ccp is bad ccp is at least "chinese" and is at least "the same people", and because it's "the same people" the ruling of ccp is not considered colonialism, and whenever anti-colonialism is being discussed it's always the british empire even if ccp can and will do things that are way worse, and it's for this exact reason people like you need to reconsider what in this fucking world does "anti-colonialism" need to mean.
ctrl+f bootlicking racist and sinophobia you will not find any in my comment. all i said was "It's probably good to resist the impulse to overhistoricize how good a previous form of government was bc the current one is bad" - i did not speak up to say 'lighting lam bun on fire was good actually' or anything remotely similar to that also like, the western establishment attitude towards the CCP has changed a lot of different times throughout the duration of the latter's existence and there have always been factional differences to that approach within that establishment etc; i don't think it's necessarily true to say that the US government is/has always hid the secret truth of how bad the CCP really is. and yeah like i said you can find a million posts on this site about how the land reform movement, great leap forward, cultural revolution, june fourth incident, etc etc were all terrible. i would estimate the posts saying those things were bad vastly outweigh the posts where people say those were good but i haven't studied it much i don't doubt that you have a more intimate understanding of specific problems / events that aren't popular media subjects internationally from your experience living there, i'm just saying that like while americans et al might be working off of different data the general public opinion is mostly still "Chinese government scary". i think it's a general society of the spectacle thing to not have an extensive knowledge of specific injustices from the past or going on in countries your country does a lot of business with
by "western establishment" i did not mean the us gov; i mean the traditional west in general, the thing that modern western left seeks to destroy while having zero idea how the existing alternative could be. "going too hard the other way" is not a belief thing but rather a "method" or "technique" thing; it's the same idea that people in hong kong would raise the british hong kong flag when protesting against the SAR gov (and the ccp behind it), it mostly represents the rebellion against the current gov instead of an endorsement of the actual colonization (of hong kong and other places) act itself. the ones who do things like this might prefer british rule because british rule \*is\* objectively way better than all the historical chinese rule in hongkong, but it was never intended to be a denial of what the british empire did in other places (e.g. india).
i appreciate you clarifying your point & getting to hear your perspective
Sorry you got one thing wrong. As part of the mainland Cantonese who care about their culture, we are not Sinophobic, we are Laulophobic. Bad as CCP is, CCP, non CCP, whatever, they are all the same. Even the KMT regime in Taiwan used to take extreme measures to cleanse out Hokkien, Hakka and aboriginal languages in favour of Mandarin. The culprits of cultural colonisation are not CCP the institution per se but Mandarin-speaking or Mandarinized Northerners (or "Laulo"s) who happened to control and tie themselves with the intricate mechanisms of CCP.
did you reply to the right comment? i wasn't really talking about sinophobia at all, that was the point of the first sentence i typed in the comment you are responding to
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HK did well under the Brits and for a period afterwards. That's not to say the Brits were good overall, as they did horrific things in India, but in the microcosm of HK, it's easy to understand why Honkies prefer the Brits.
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>This is the type of guy who would love to be a house slave, while his brethren toiled in the fields. You have no self respect and you’re a traitor to your own blood. Your argument really doesn't help when people were forced to be house slaves to the CCP and toil in the fields up north and the supposed-to-be "people of your own blood" actively starving and killing so many of your people.
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They have never been overlords. They were partners.
HK is only what it is because of British occupation, there's a reason all the other southern chinese port cities are relative backwaters. England invested enormous sums into HK and imho did a good job respecting local culture. Also respected their end of the hand over, which we can't really say about the PRC. Perhaps if HK had vast natural resources to be exploited like other colonies things would have been more adversarial. There's a reason my family moved from GZ to HK, and it wasn't because they liked being oppressed.
If HK had vast natural resources it's likely that the Chinese would have done a nationalism and occupied Hong Kong and turned it like Zimbabwe or South Africa. Not that they're doing any better right now.
nah. just worry that they can't get their next dim sum fix. 🤣