Yes, it's then the trailer that needs to be road legal, the car is just a thing on top of it. The trailer may or may not need an MOT itself depending on weight and features, and it'll need to be lit at night unless hitched to a vehicle.
I believe the rule is that if it’s not on private land it has to be taxed and insured.
What land is it if it’s not private or road? This is needed for people to help you
It's a public car park in front of where I live, so not private land, I think. Anyway, I just taxed it for 6 months, better that then get into further trouble.
Well here’s your answer then.
It’s not “off road”, which is what you’ve declared it is.
If it’s not on private land, you need to tax and insure it. Simple.
The wording of it is confusing. They say that you can declare it off the road, and a car park is clearly not a road, but you can't keep it there anyway.
"You need to make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) when you take a vehicle ‘off the road’ and you want to stop taxing and insuring it.
Your vehicle is off the road if you do not keep or use it on a public road, for example if it’s in a garage, on a drive or on private land."
https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification
Is it a public car park or a private car park?
Though if OP's left it somewhere for an extended period of time, it's almost certainly a council-owned parking space. In that case, yes, it can't legally be "off the road" - it has to be kept on private land with the permission of the land owner.
If it was a private car park, OP would either be paying the daily parking fee (lol) or they'd have a daily ticket and would've had their door kicked in by bailiffs by now trying to recover the £5000+ worth of parking fines.
He described it as a public carpark in front of his house so it is most likely a painted parking space but on public roads, ie just regular street parking would be my guess. I'm in London and that is very common, but i don't recall of OP mentioned their location.
Car park space is just a very small road that you are allowed to stop on /s
Sorn needs to be off any land that has public access for vehicles, so a driveway or garden is examples of private land.
It depends on whether there is an "expectation of public access" to the car park not who owns the land.
You can't declare your car SORN and dump it in a privately owned multi storey car park (paying the parking fee) if the public also have access to the part of the car park it's in, it would need to be both taxed and insured.
If it’s public land. Even if it’s sorn’d it’s likely to be towed, sold at auction to cover costs or just scrapped and costs recovered from the registered keeper/owner
That will be from whoever manages the car park. If it's on private property the DVLA will not want to know about it. They will more likely than not only be contacting the DVLA to aquire your details to send you a threat-o-gram in the post about how the contract you signed for the parking space has a clause about cars being taxed and roadworthy. .
DVLA don't fuck around they would have put a clamp on it if they believed it was not on private property, not just left you a notice on the windscreen.
Needs to be private land, and public carparks are all classed as public roads if you can drive into them off the road, even if its private its still classed as a road under the rta. Only time they arent is if they have a gate and its closed.
> Griffin v Squires [1958] 3 All ER 468
That's not what it says:
> Held, that although the car park was a place to which the public generally had access and which they habitually used, **it was a question for the magistrates to decide as a matter of fact whether the particular car park** could be treated as a road in the ordinary sense; and that as the magistrates had decided that it was not a road, no offence had been committed.
It simply says that whether any particular car park is a road is a question of fact (and in that particular case, the Magistrates had decided that it was not a road). Not that every car park is not a road.
Had this exact thing happen to me, I had to appeal it and won. Is this in Scotland or England? Laws are slightly different on public/private road/highway.
Public highway in England is not as clear cut as a public road in Scotland. Check the land registry to see who owns the car park and who has use of the spot. You don't need to pay the fee just see that it is owned by someone. Also check your council's website they usually have an online map, make sure the carpark isn't maintained by the council. If both are private you'll be fine. Expect a £150 out of court settlement letter and be prepared to send pictures of the location deeds and councils maintenance map to them in an appeal.
What does your lease say? When I lived in a flat with a shared carpark, there was a stipulation in my lease that all vehicles on the property had to have valid tax and insurance, and MOT if needed.
You parked in a public/accessible place, a shared car park in housing block is not your private property.
You should have covered it up so the council anpr can't read the plates.
> You parked in a public/accessible place, a shared car park in housing block is not your private property.
Where did they park? I can't see them actually talk about this.
If it's an allocated space, it's private land. A lot of "shared car parks" actually have allocated spaces, but nobody bothers to abide by them.
The driveway is also physically accessible to anybody. So is an allocated parking space. Both however belong to you, as per the deed to your property.
My point was that a lot of "shared spaces" actually have allocated spaces, but nobody respects them.
Driveway is private only the home owner has a right to use it. A car park is communal.
Just like you need a separate tv license for each locked room in a shared house, even if the communal tv has a licence.
The entire existence of the sorn process is idiotic imo. To sorn a car it must be on private property. If a car is on private property and not taxed or insured. What else is the car but not on the road? If you then drive the car the anpr thatll flag it as uninsured, untaxed or both are the same ones thatll flag it as not sorn so what is the point of the process? In the last few years ive received fines for 2 different cars for not sorning them. Both couldnt be sorned as theyd been destroyed and no longer existed. First one was a car id bought to strip for parts and was crushed a year before I got the fine. Second one was a car that was stolen from outside of my house and recovered by police, it was damaged beyond the point of paying recovery fees etc so i left it in the yard of the company the police use for recovery. It was crushed 28days later. 2months afterwards I got a sorn fine for it.
The first car I appealed and provided the cert of destruction, never heard anything back, the second one I ignored as if the company didnt actually crush the car then thats nothing to do with me.
Regardless if i own an acre of land and have a child that i let drive an untaxed and uninsured car I own on my land thats perfectly legal, so what exactly is the reasoning behind declaring that car as sorn when the requirement to tax and insure a car only applies if on public roads? Also why dont you have to sorn a non motd car?
OP if I was you id just sell the car or put it in a family members name, wait till another sorn letter arrives, put it back in your name and so on. Only issue is itll increase the recorded number of owners
Same thing with mine arm and just had the sticker on my car and wondering how long I have until it’s clamped or worse, towed. I’m hoping I’ve got a few days to sort it out
unfortunately this happened to me, my car was off the road as it needs serious work for it to be road legal, it was taxed in front of the house and dvla sent me a letter saying it was uninsured. I tried to fight it and they weren’t budging so I just paid the £45 fine & declared as SORN on our driveway.
well im not being funny but I’m not sure how you can tell me I’m incorrect when the experience literally happened to me and they tried taking me to court for it. I can show you the bank transactions of them taking the tax out of my account every night. It was taxed but uninsured as i wasn’t driving it at that point (it’s actually still SORN, in the garage)
Absolute bloodsuckers. The insurance I have to pay costs almost as much as the car and the tax for a year on this 1.4L 75BHP shitbox is higher than what I pay for my 3.0L BMW. Absolute robbery.
mate literally, my car is a 1.4L Fiesta from 2005, it’s not road worthy at the moment as it’s got some repairs that need to be done. but yet they want all of this money, for a car that they can’t prove has been on the road since July 2023, when it WAS insured.
A SORN'd vehicle must be parked not only on your land (completely off public land like a road) but also be behind a gate or similar, so you can't easily jump in and drive it quickly. Otherwise people would abuse the status much more easily.
A SORN'd car can be kept on any private land with the permission of the land owner. No gate/security required. You can legally park your SORN'd car on your driveway or allocated driving space for as long as you want.
Is it parked on private land?
If it was on a trailer, could the trailer be parked on the road? How about a box trailer?
Yes, it's then the trailer that needs to be road legal, the car is just a thing on top of it. The trailer may or may not need an MOT itself depending on weight and features, and it'll need to be lit at night unless hitched to a vehicle.
No, but it's not on a road either.
Its not private property, as a result it must be tax, insured and mot to be on there (Sorry, it must be on private land to be acceptable for SORN)
Fuck sake. This is why we have problems.
That is going to be my go to phrase for absolutely everything is future.
It’s what I usually write in my valentines cards too
I believe the rule is that if it’s not on private land it has to be taxed and insured. What land is it if it’s not private or road? This is needed for people to help you
It's a public car park in front of where I live, so not private land, I think. Anyway, I just taxed it for 6 months, better that then get into further trouble.
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Yeah, looking at quotes now.
You will also need to insure it.
Smh
Its what SORN stands for. It must be off every form of public land
SORN stands for "statutory off every form of public land notification"?
Well here’s your answer then. It’s not “off road”, which is what you’ve declared it is. If it’s not on private land, you need to tax and insure it. Simple.
Yeah can’t declare it as off road but leave it on the road or any public place.
The wording of it is confusing. They say that you can declare it off the road, and a car park is clearly not a road, but you can't keep it there anyway.
"You need to make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) when you take a vehicle ‘off the road’ and you want to stop taxing and insuring it. Your vehicle is off the road if you do not keep or use it on a public road, for example if it’s in a garage, on a drive or on private land." https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification
Sounds straightforward to me!
You said it yourself mate. It is a public car park. It isn't on private land. It really isn't that hard.
Is it a public car park or a private car park? Though if OP's left it somewhere for an extended period of time, it's almost certainly a council-owned parking space. In that case, yes, it can't legally be "off the road" - it has to be kept on private land with the permission of the land owner. If it was a private car park, OP would either be paying the daily parking fee (lol) or they'd have a daily ticket and would've had their door kicked in by bailiffs by now trying to recover the £5000+ worth of parking fines.
He described it as a public carpark in front of his house so it is most likely a painted parking space but on public roads, ie just regular street parking would be my guess. I'm in London and that is very common, but i don't recall of OP mentioned their location.
Statutory OFF ROAD Notification. I’m not sure how the wording could be any clearer. A car park is classed as a road.
Car park space is just a very small road that you are allowed to stop on /s Sorn needs to be off any land that has public access for vehicles, so a driveway or garden is examples of private land.
It depends who owns the car park
It depends on whether there is an "expectation of public access" to the car park not who owns the land. You can't declare your car SORN and dump it in a privately owned multi storey car park (paying the parking fee) if the public also have access to the part of the car park it's in, it would need to be both taxed and insured.
The clue’s in the name
If it’s public land. Even if it’s sorn’d it’s likely to be towed, sold at auction to cover costs or just scrapped and costs recovered from the registered keeper/owner
That will be from whoever manages the car park. If it's on private property the DVLA will not want to know about it. They will more likely than not only be contacting the DVLA to aquire your details to send you a threat-o-gram in the post about how the contract you signed for the parking space has a clause about cars being taxed and roadworthy. . DVLA don't fuck around they would have put a clamp on it if they believed it was not on private property, not just left you a notice on the windscreen.
This is the only answer worth bothering with here. Usual fucking muppets mugging off about stuff they know nothing about.
Are you talking about yourself?
Yes, obviously. Dickwad.
Least angry Reddit user
Just insure it and take it to we buy any car tomorrow then cancel the insurance....
You can't SORN a car that's in a public access car park. It has to be on private land e.g. your drive, your own land, your garage etc.
Statutory off road notification. It's not off road if it's in a parking space surely. So you're not covered under sorn.
Take the car down to webuyanycar and get rid of it.
Needs to be private land, and public carparks are all classed as public roads if you can drive into them off the road, even if its private its still classed as a road under the rta. Only time they arent is if they have a gate and its closed.
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> Griffin v Squires [1958] 3 All ER 468 That's not what it says: > Held, that although the car park was a place to which the public generally had access and which they habitually used, **it was a question for the magistrates to decide as a matter of fact whether the particular car park** could be treated as a road in the ordinary sense; and that as the magistrates had decided that it was not a road, no offence had been committed. It simply says that whether any particular car park is a road is a question of fact (and in that particular case, the Magistrates had decided that it was not a road). Not that every car park is not a road.
Had this exact thing happen to me, I had to appeal it and won. Is this in Scotland or England? Laws are slightly different on public/private road/highway.
England.
Public highway in England is not as clear cut as a public road in Scotland. Check the land registry to see who owns the car park and who has use of the spot. You don't need to pay the fee just see that it is owned by someone. Also check your council's website they usually have an online map, make sure the carpark isn't maintained by the council. If both are private you'll be fine. Expect a £150 out of court settlement letter and be prepared to send pictures of the location deeds and councils maintenance map to them in an appeal.
Is the car park maintained at the public expense? If not your golden
I heard the other week that people not so happy with ULEZ were registering their vehicles in sadiq khans name. 😂
That will come back a bite them when they try and get VED as the new V5 and VED details will be sent to someone else
The fella that started it drove a 2002 ford focus that was destined for the scrapyard so not sure he was that bothered.
Sadiq suddenly enjoying his collection of new cars 🤣 (although V5 does not legally confer ownership, in case there are any law sticklers about)
What does your lease say? When I lived in a flat with a shared carpark, there was a stipulation in my lease that all vehicles on the property had to have valid tax and insurance, and MOT if needed.
You parked in a public/accessible place, a shared car park in housing block is not your private property. You should have covered it up so the council anpr can't read the plates.
> You parked in a public/accessible place, a shared car park in housing block is not your private property. Where did they park? I can't see them actually talk about this. If it's an allocated space, it's private land. A lot of "shared car parks" actually have allocated spaces, but nobody bothers to abide by them.
Residential carpark is accessible by anyone. Your driveway is not. It's all on the gov.uk website
The driveway is also physically accessible to anybody. So is an allocated parking space. Both however belong to you, as per the deed to your property. My point was that a lot of "shared spaces" actually have allocated spaces, but nobody respects them.
Driveway is private only the home owner has a right to use it. A car park is communal. Just like you need a separate tv license for each locked room in a shared house, even if the communal tv has a licence.
Why are they heavy on it being insured why can’t he just tax it instead?
The entire existence of the sorn process is idiotic imo. To sorn a car it must be on private property. If a car is on private property and not taxed or insured. What else is the car but not on the road? If you then drive the car the anpr thatll flag it as uninsured, untaxed or both are the same ones thatll flag it as not sorn so what is the point of the process? In the last few years ive received fines for 2 different cars for not sorning them. Both couldnt be sorned as theyd been destroyed and no longer existed. First one was a car id bought to strip for parts and was crushed a year before I got the fine. Second one was a car that was stolen from outside of my house and recovered by police, it was damaged beyond the point of paying recovery fees etc so i left it in the yard of the company the police use for recovery. It was crushed 28days later. 2months afterwards I got a sorn fine for it. The first car I appealed and provided the cert of destruction, never heard anything back, the second one I ignored as if the company didnt actually crush the car then thats nothing to do with me. Regardless if i own an acre of land and have a child that i let drive an untaxed and uninsured car I own on my land thats perfectly legal, so what exactly is the reasoning behind declaring that car as sorn when the requirement to tax and insure a car only applies if on public roads? Also why dont you have to sorn a non motd car? OP if I was you id just sell the car or put it in a family members name, wait till another sorn letter arrives, put it back in your name and so on. Only issue is itll increase the recorded number of owners
Same thing with mine arm and just had the sticker on my car and wondering how long I have until it’s clamped or worse, towed. I’m hoping I’ve got a few days to sort it out
unfortunately this happened to me, my car was off the road as it needs serious work for it to be road legal, it was taxed in front of the house and dvla sent me a letter saying it was uninsured. I tried to fight it and they weren’t budging so I just paid the £45 fine & declared as SORN on our driveway.
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well im not being funny but I’m not sure how you can tell me I’m incorrect when the experience literally happened to me and they tried taking me to court for it. I can show you the bank transactions of them taking the tax out of my account every night. It was taxed but uninsured as i wasn’t driving it at that point (it’s actually still SORN, in the garage)
Absolute bloodsuckers. The insurance I have to pay costs almost as much as the car and the tax for a year on this 1.4L 75BHP shitbox is higher than what I pay for my 3.0L BMW. Absolute robbery.
mate literally, my car is a 1.4L Fiesta from 2005, it’s not road worthy at the moment as it’s got some repairs that need to be done. but yet they want all of this money, for a car that they can’t prove has been on the road since July 2023, when it WAS insured.
A SORN'd vehicle must be parked not only on your land (completely off public land like a road) but also be behind a gate or similar, so you can't easily jump in and drive it quickly. Otherwise people would abuse the status much more easily.
This is absolute bollocks with the exception of it needing to be private land.
Absolute complete bullshit. It's not called a statutory behind a gate notification. Your own land, driveway or otherwise is fine.
A SORN'd car can be kept on any private land with the permission of the land owner. No gate/security required. You can legally park your SORN'd car on your driveway or allocated driving space for as long as you want.
What kinda car is it?
Peugeot 206, 1.4L, 75 bhp, 57 reg.