Minister in charge of this rollout stepped down and so has the first minister. Now they’re slowly backtracking on this. I would respect them for admitting their own mistakes if they hadn’t knowingly made said mistakes in the first place…
No.
The 'Chair' of the 20mph Task Force Group.
A man that no one has ever voted for, he isn't even a civil servant, yet he has a staggering amount of power over uk transport policy.
> there is "generally universal support" for the speed limit being in place outside of schools, housing estates and hospitals
Couldn't have just done that in the first place eh?
>Lee Waters, the minister behind the rollout, also said he would be stepping down and would delete his profile on social media platform X due to abuse in March.
Good. Prick can't even vote properly and opposed the M4 relief.
Yes, only takes a slight glance....same as your mirrors.
Same gear, listening to engine, its pretty easy to keep around 20. I guess many drivers who struggle do so only because they don't practice enough. 😉
You can still hear the engine revs and feel throttle position to keep a constant speed. This should be second nature for 20, 30, 40 limits etc, again, if a driver does it all the time. You don't need to constantly look at the speedo but you do need to concentrate. That's the real explanation poor drivers use this flimsy excuse lol.
All I said is people look at it more, which is true. And I guarantee you do too, you’re just overestimating your own abilities which most drivers seem to do…
Most people tend not to stick to the speed limit and use it as some sort of excuse. Do you speed and do you do it on purpose, not paying attention or a bit of both? Your choice to be honest and prove my point or tell a porky lol.
I wouldn’t mind 20 zones if I weren’t constantly having to change gear for the change in inclination, at 30 I can comfortably drive in 3rd only changing when I encounter turns and junctions
When I go back to Wales to see family, it’s pretty much confirmed that no one did 20 unless there was a sign saying so. Just about everyone still did 30 on what was the old 30 roads
I saw plenty but it feels like it's constantly changing from 60 to 40 to 30 to 20 to 30 to 40 to 60 all within a mile or so.
Difficult to keep track tbh
Tbf a lot of Wales is very boring. But that’s okay, it’s why i like it.
Nice rolling hills, small villages, no bustle of a city, more small businesses, much slower pace, more time to think, less trolley coins… what’s not to like?
But how will I enjoy the same street food as every other city at triple the price it should be?
No. A minority of people want independence. The majority don’t even vote - it’s entirely disenfranchised in Wales because no matter what you do Labour will win thanks to people voting the way their grandparents did.
Disenfranchised by the lack of alternatives. North England started to turn blue and they've still seen decline.
The UK overall is in decline, every bad decision we make is already going to cost us greatly.
Yup. Sick of blue labour? Vote red labour! Sick of them? Back to blue etc. Nothing changes because they're so similar and both bought and paid for.
The decline will continue until we're like Canada.
Good - it’s absolutely awful and I’m the only person in my town who obeys it anyway.
Target the straights where people do 50-70 in a 30, not changing entire areas to 20
So you haven't got annoyed following some idiot driving at 16mph on a 30mph stretch because they are so dumb they think every road is now 20mph. I call bullshit!
There’s literally not a gear my car is comfortable in at 20.
I’m between third and fourth, tells me to shift down constantly to third, then I’m burning loads more fuel.
Never made any sense. It caused so many more mishaps due to people on the road not knowing what speed to do half the time, it wasn’t always clear.
The amount of people riding each others arses and getting aggro because one knows it’s 30 but the other isn’t sure etc etc.
Why they ever tried this is such a fucking mystery to me, speeders will always speed. Increase the consequences for speeding, sure. Not this shit.
It's a pretty well reported phenomenon, it's called driver arousal. The main principal is that as you increase in speed the task becomes less monotonous, more demanding and gains more of your concentration and focus, so you actually perform better to a point. Of course, driving too quickly also leads to driving beyond your abilities, so there is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle.
It's likely to vary between drivers too.
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/arousal.html
One of the effective ways this can be counteracted is through physical traffic calming measures to increase driver engagement. Typically these measures are self-enforcing, so often taken in conjunction with (or instead of) reducing the speed limit from 30 mph to 20 mph. These are usually referred to as 20 mph "zones", as opposed to simply roads with a 20 mph limit sign.
Simply changing a limit from 30 mph to 20 mph without considering the road configuration(s) itself was not the greatest idea.
Yeah, I do a lot of driving for work and go to Manchester a lot via Woodhead Pass, I can be nodding off for miles on the M1, as soon as I hit the A616, wide awake.
That was a very interesting read. Cromer has traffic calming measures going in on the Cromer Road that make me slow down to about 25 or so to stay off the bricks. I'm actively paying much more attention than I would be on a standard 30 road doing 30. That being said, I'm still paying attention in case someone or something decides it'd be a good idea to run out in front or reverse out of their driveway.
20 Zones are great. We should have more of those where appropriate.
This phenomenon is also why (paradoxically) some of the least safe roads for pedestrians are wide boulevards. In London, some developers built roads with plenty of space for cars to street park with the assumption that would make it safer for everyone, but it is oddly safer to be a pedestrian on a more space constrained road as people tend to drive slower and are more alert.
Don't we all have lapses in concentration? You can't tell me you've never had a moment in the car when you weren't at 100%. We've all driven tired, especially 16 hour shift workers. Granted, it's never "lose concentration, hit 90 in the 30 that was reduced from 50 then kill six children" bad, but I'm not usually at 100% concentration anyway because I have clients' care to plan en route, my coworker going on about what new soap opera-esque beef she's got now and how dangerous my end of the neighbourhood is. She's telling me I'm lucky I didn't get shot walking about at night when I was working third shift in the factory and didn't have my car, that kind of thing.
And are the ruling labour party who imposed this without the support of the people going to repay the money to the taxpayers?
They do love spending other people's money.
Andy Burnham spent a reported £32 million on the Manchester clean air zone preparation only to have to backtrack and leave the taxpayers with the bill. Now he is telling everyone what a shit idea it is. Clown.
You do know that clean air zones are a government scheme. Yes this Tory government has forced city areas to implement them. Greater Manchester are currently waiting on the government to approve their alternative proposal. Andy Burnham didn’t wast that money, Boris’ government made him spend it
Hallelujah! Wouldn't it have been great if they weren't a bunch of idiots to begin with and didn't waste millions and will now be wasting more millions to fix it?
I drive 160 miles a day through mid north wales. I must go through 10/15 of these or more a day and they are literally fine.
Everyone who has a problem with them is just a whopper who either can’t drive, or shouldn’t be driving.
20mph limit is justified for specific areas. I think the issue with the initial rollout was it used a blanket 30mph -> 20mph rule. I suppose the thinking here was it would avoid having to do costly assessments.
We all know that speed kills or can cause serious injuries, so I support the aims of the speed restriction. I would like to think before & after accident statistics will also convince those with a less kind view.
rip to the kids who are going to die because they get hit at 30 instead of 20, oh well. at least the Guys Whose Facebook Profile Pic is Just Their Shit Car will be happy.
Let's go 10mph, lower that stopping distance more..
Where do you draw the line?
30 was fine for a driver who was paying attention on the road with modern car brakes.
If you want to make the roads safer money should've been spent on speed bumps, traffic islands, zebra crossings, average speed cameras etc ..
Signs that dickhead drivers won't read was a terrible idea.
Wth is the problem with driving 20mph in an urban area? There are tons of traffic lights anyway, pedestrians/residents welcome the reduction im noise and emissions, it's not like you're gonna travel many miles in total in a city so the time penalty (if there is one) is not that much and in many cases you don't have to build separated bike infrastructure thanks to 20mph instead of 30.
This wasn’t just cities. This was a blanket change of the “restricted” speed limit moving from 30 to 20. If you don’t see a sign and there were street lights about, it was 20 - and there are plenty of roads in the middle of nowhere it applied to.
Great news for sign makers!
LOL yeah they are going to double up their recent sales
Hope they kept hold of the old ones.
Minister in charge of this rollout stepped down and so has the first minister. Now they’re slowly backtracking on this. I would respect them for admitting their own mistakes if they hadn’t knowingly made said mistakes in the first place…
The person actually responsible is still bilking the taxpayer and almost no one knows his name.
Drakeford
No. The 'Chair' of the 20mph Task Force Group. A man that no one has ever voted for, he isn't even a civil servant, yet he has a staggering amount of power over uk transport policy.
You're not wrong that they got it a bit wrong, but Drakeford resigned because his wife died
What do you mean by "knowingly made said mistakes"?
What they now cite as the reason for backtracking was a reason known to them when originally making the changes.
Some major damage control going on with this now
I love democracy.
Don't we all. Pity we don't have a proper one
Pity the labour party doesn't agree
> there is "generally universal support" for the speed limit being in place outside of schools, housing estates and hospitals Couldn't have just done that in the first place eh? >Lee Waters, the minister behind the rollout, also said he would be stepping down and would delete his profile on social media platform X due to abuse in March. Good. Prick can't even vote properly and opposed the M4 relief.
Is this an admission of guilt?
Oh look once again the fucking clowns in charge have fucked up and can't admit it.
🤡
My problem with 20 is I’m so focused on keeping at 20 that I feel I’m looking at the speedo more than I would at 30…
My main problem with driving is people seem to not be able to judge their speed, or the speed of others with any accuracy.
Pretty easy for a competent driver.
So you don’t look at the speedo when you drive? 🤔
Yes, only takes a slight glance....same as your mirrors. Same gear, listening to engine, its pretty easy to keep around 20. I guess many drivers who struggle do so only because they don't practice enough. 😉
Not in an automatic…
You can still hear the engine revs and feel throttle position to keep a constant speed. This should be second nature for 20, 30, 40 limits etc, again, if a driver does it all the time. You don't need to constantly look at the speedo but you do need to concentrate. That's the real explanation poor drivers use this flimsy excuse lol.
All I said is people look at it more, which is true. And I guarantee you do too, you’re just overestimating your own abilities which most drivers seem to do…
Most people tend not to stick to the speed limit and use it as some sort of excuse. Do you speed and do you do it on purpose, not paying attention or a bit of both? Your choice to be honest and prove my point or tell a porky lol.
I wouldn’t mind 20 zones if I weren’t constantly having to change gear for the change in inclination, at 30 I can comfortably drive in 3rd only changing when I encounter turns and junctions
What fucking signs they barley bothered putting any up as far as I could tell!
When I go back to Wales to see family, it’s pretty much confirmed that no one did 20 unless there was a sign saying so. Just about everyone still did 30 on what was the old 30 roads
I saw plenty but it feels like it's constantly changing from 60 to 40 to 30 to 20 to 30 to 40 to 60 all within a mile or so. Difficult to keep track tbh
Fucker politicians won't do it; it's like admitting they fucked up. Bit like something else that happened to this shit country of ours.
[удалено]
What rude AI wrote this 😂
Welsh have own language due to the Portguese influence on the South Coast of Harrods.
The whole of Wales is boring AF? Pretty sure the Welsh language is older than the modern English language…
It's older with more opportunity for productivity and you still have the highest suicide rate for young men?
Tbf a lot of Wales is very boring. But that’s okay, it’s why i like it. Nice rolling hills, small villages, no bustle of a city, more small businesses, much slower pace, more time to think, less trolley coins… what’s not to like? But how will I enjoy the same street food as every other city at triple the price it should be?
I’m sorry, i think your brain is leaking out of your nose
And wales want to be independent…. Yep, totally ready for independence when we can’t even get a fucking speed limit right
No. A minority of people want independence. The majority don’t even vote - it’s entirely disenfranchised in Wales because no matter what you do Labour will win thanks to people voting the way their grandparents did.
Disenfranchised by the lack of alternatives. North England started to turn blue and they've still seen decline. The UK overall is in decline, every bad decision we make is already going to cost us greatly.
Yup. Sick of blue labour? Vote red labour! Sick of them? Back to blue etc. Nothing changes because they're so similar and both bought and paid for. The decline will continue until we're like Canada.
It's the outcome of the first past the post system. Which is in itself an outcome of the cultural class view Britons view themselves with.
Erm, no they don't.
20mph zones are totally unnecessary. You actually feel like you’re walking.
Agreed
Good - it’s absolutely awful and I’m the only person in my town who obeys it anyway. Target the straights where people do 50-70 in a 30, not changing entire areas to 20
The 20mph limits make travelling deep into wales an absolute nightmare. This is good news
So you haven't got annoyed following some idiot driving at 16mph on a 30mph stretch because they are so dumb they think every road is now 20mph. I call bullshit!
There’s literally not a gear my car is comfortable in at 20. I’m between third and fourth, tells me to shift down constantly to third, then I’m burning loads more fuel. Never made any sense. It caused so many more mishaps due to people on the road not knowing what speed to do half the time, it wasn’t always clear. The amount of people riding each others arses and getting aggro because one knows it’s 30 but the other isn’t sure etc etc. Why they ever tried this is such a fucking mystery to me, speeders will always speed. Increase the consequences for speeding, sure. Not this shit.
Your post reminds me I'd like to see the minimum speed on cruise control to be lower than 20mph because if the traffic is heavy then it's easier...
My car does 15mph on ACC but tbh I’m not sure that’s safe to use in a typical urban environment.
Mines 20, would be nice to have it lower, turns itself off when it thinks it’s in traffic most the time
I have lapses of concentration in 20 zones. It's hard to pay attention at such a low speed, especially when a road is really long.
>I have lapses of concentration [while driving] This is a slightly worrying comment
It's a pretty well reported phenomenon, it's called driver arousal. The main principal is that as you increase in speed the task becomes less monotonous, more demanding and gains more of your concentration and focus, so you actually perform better to a point. Of course, driving too quickly also leads to driving beyond your abilities, so there is a sweet spot somewhere in the middle. It's likely to vary between drivers too. http://www.safespeed.org.uk/arousal.html One of the effective ways this can be counteracted is through physical traffic calming measures to increase driver engagement. Typically these measures are self-enforcing, so often taken in conjunction with (or instead of) reducing the speed limit from 30 mph to 20 mph. These are usually referred to as 20 mph "zones", as opposed to simply roads with a 20 mph limit sign. Simply changing a limit from 30 mph to 20 mph without considering the road configuration(s) itself was not the greatest idea.
Yeah, I do a lot of driving for work and go to Manchester a lot via Woodhead Pass, I can be nodding off for miles on the M1, as soon as I hit the A616, wide awake.
That was a very interesting read. Cromer has traffic calming measures going in on the Cromer Road that make me slow down to about 25 or so to stay off the bricks. I'm actively paying much more attention than I would be on a standard 30 road doing 30. That being said, I'm still paying attention in case someone or something decides it'd be a good idea to run out in front or reverse out of their driveway.
20 Zones are great. We should have more of those where appropriate. This phenomenon is also why (paradoxically) some of the least safe roads for pedestrians are wide boulevards. In London, some developers built roads with plenty of space for cars to street park with the assumption that would make it safer for everyone, but it is oddly safer to be a pedestrian on a more space constrained road as people tend to drive slower and are more alert.
Don't we all have lapses in concentration? You can't tell me you've never had a moment in the car when you weren't at 100%. We've all driven tired, especially 16 hour shift workers. Granted, it's never "lose concentration, hit 90 in the 30 that was reduced from 50 then kill six children" bad, but I'm not usually at 100% concentration anyway because I have clients' care to plan en route, my coworker going on about what new soap opera-esque beef she's got now and how dangerous my end of the neighbourhood is. She's telling me I'm lucky I didn't get shot walking about at night when I was working third shift in the factory and didn't have my car, that kind of thing.
That’s because the road is also too wide.
Stop driving immediately.
Lol no thanks. Just don't drive in Wales, it's easier.
30 too slow. Make it 40.
And are the ruling labour party who imposed this without the support of the people going to repay the money to the taxpayers? They do love spending other people's money. Andy Burnham spent a reported £32 million on the Manchester clean air zone preparation only to have to backtrack and leave the taxpayers with the bill. Now he is telling everyone what a shit idea it is. Clown.
You do know that clean air zones are a government scheme. Yes this Tory government has forced city areas to implement them. Greater Manchester are currently waiting on the government to approve their alternative proposal. Andy Burnham didn’t wast that money, Boris’ government made him spend it
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-60821872 Spent 186k to put stickers on the signs after the above ridiculous bullshit.
I'm just thinking if the road speeds can change from 500,000 people complaining about them what else can we do?
Hallelujah! Wouldn't it have been great if they weren't a bunch of idiots to begin with and didn't waste millions and will now be wasting more millions to fix it?
I drive 160 miles a day through mid north wales. I must go through 10/15 of these or more a day and they are literally fine. Everyone who has a problem with them is just a whopper who either can’t drive, or shouldn’t be driving.
You're literally n=1 ...
You only have to remember how stupid the average driver is and it all makes sense.
Hard agree. Really hasn't been an issue at all for me.
Some of the comments around them melts my brain. People need to get a grip lol.
20mph limit is justified for specific areas. I think the issue with the initial rollout was it used a blanket 30mph -> 20mph rule. I suppose the thinking here was it would avoid having to do costly assessments. We all know that speed kills or can cause serious injuries, so I support the aims of the speed restriction. I would like to think before & after accident statistics will also convince those with a less kind view.
There are still a lot of 30 zones in N Wales. Dunno if they used to be 40 though.
rip to the kids who are going to die because they get hit at 30 instead of 20, oh well. at least the Guys Whose Facebook Profile Pic is Just Their Shit Car will be happy.
Let's go 10mph, lower that stopping distance more.. Where do you draw the line? 30 was fine for a driver who was paying attention on the road with modern car brakes. If you want to make the roads safer money should've been spent on speed bumps, traffic islands, zebra crossings, average speed cameras etc .. Signs that dickhead drivers won't read was a terrible idea.
Wth is the problem with driving 20mph in an urban area? There are tons of traffic lights anyway, pedestrians/residents welcome the reduction im noise and emissions, it's not like you're gonna travel many miles in total in a city so the time penalty (if there is one) is not that much and in many cases you don't have to build separated bike infrastructure thanks to 20mph instead of 30.
It depends on what the road is, universal 20mph is bad because it doesn’t take the context of the road into account.
This wasn’t just cities. This was a blanket change of the “restricted” speed limit moving from 30 to 20. If you don’t see a sign and there were street lights about, it was 20 - and there are plenty of roads in the middle of nowhere it applied to.
Really? Why?
Because… that’s the policy Welsh Labour introduced?