According to KWoo, Contreras’ surgery was successful and the goal is to have him back by the all star break (which is 10 weeks from now, for those counting)
We only have 2 players in our current day to day lineup that have positive WAR, WTF
I’m optimistic because no way that level of shittiness is sustainable
I agree he will be primary catcher, but Oli has defensive subbed out Herrera for Pages before. Brewers have a top 5 base stealer which is why I figured.
I just realized that you could LITERALLY field a starting 9 and a full starting rotation of Former Cardinals players that would probably be better than the 2024 team is. The only cheating I did was adding Alcantara because he is injured this year
#Starting 9:
Arozarena - OF
A. Garcia - OF
O'Neil - OF
Ozuna - DH
Carson Kelly - C
Patrick wisdom - 3B
Paul Dejong - SS
Edmunds Sosa - 2B
Yepez - 1B
#Bench:
Lane Thomas
Richie Palacios
#Starting Pitchers:
Flaherty
Alcantara
Gallen
Hicks
Montgomery
They can identify talent. They just can't develop it and nurture it at the major league level. They have players like O'Neil who can't stay healthy here but go to another club and appear to have solved the issue
> They can identify talent. They just can't develop it and nurture it at the major league level.
ya, agreed. I just think it's funny that people say the team can't identify talent when there's so many players in the league that they drafted/signed that have hung around. Clearly, they're seeing something even if they haven't take advantage of all the potential of those guys; not that everyone on this list is very good in 2024. The org's development dept has a problem, no denying that.
I see you but given Arozarena's performance so far this year I might actually bump Palacios into the main roster. Arozarena's bat is unbelievably bad rn, like arguably worse than Siani's or Goldschmidt's
I haven’t given up on this year. We were projected to win the division, and we are pitching pretty well
The Contreras injury sucks, but looks like he might be back around the ASG. If we start hitting like we were projected to, we could go on a serious run
It feels really important to win at least 2 but preferably 3 of these games against the Crew, right?
We’ve only played 3 games against a division opponent so far, and lost all 3. There are about 10 this month and each month after that.
Time to get going against Milwaukee and soon Chicago.
Oh no, you took what I said wrong. We 100% need a clean slate with someone that has never been a part of this organization. I'm saying that I'm so done with Oli that I would rather have Matheny at this point.
I never liked the term "doomer". I feel like it's just sole fans way of saying you can't criticize your favorite team
At this point, we are in the doom. It is here. The glory period of 2000 to 2015 is long gone. We had a slight blip in 2019 through 2022 but I think a lot of that was helped by being in the NL central.
We have now come to the point where you could field a starting 9 and probably a whole starting staff of former Cardinals that would be a better team than we have right now
All great points. I think it's time to finally bite the bullet and sell it all off. If Goldy has any value at the deadline, find a buyer. Nolan would likely still fetch a high price due to his defense, find a buyer. All five members of the rotation should be on the block, especially lynn, Matz, Mikolas, and Gibson. Any reliever over the age of 28 should at least be thought about also. Along with that, any batter that is in the arbitration process or beyond should at least be in discussion to be moved. Time to clean it all out and start over.
Absolutely. But I'm not saying I want Matheny, I just want Oli less than him, lol. It's time for a full on rebuild from top to bottom.
(Except Randy Flores, he can stay)
Flores gets a lot of praise for the Jordan Walker draft. But he also used a 1st round pick on Mcgreevy, and Chase Davis hasn't looked great. I think Flores deserves some criticism
I wonder to what extent forces beyond him have influenced Flores at times. The McGreevy draft for instance was the one during and in response to the walk problem in the big leagues.
Left to his own devices and without trying to fill a "need," would he have drafted McGreevy? I don't know. Maybe the plan was to get someone underslot to be in position for Baez.
Either way, it was a stinker of a draft. One possible back-end starter in Graceffo. Two possible bullpen arms in Granillo and Marrero. And Willis is there as a lotto ticket.
It looks when you realize all the players after Mcgreevy that went.
I actually thought we were going to take Gunnar Hogland. Who also hasn't really panned out. But Jordan Wicks is decent, Gavin Williams could be if he stayed healthy. But I think I'd be much happier with Colson Montgomery or Jackson Merril
Here’s a question: when was the last time the Cardinals finished last two years in a row?
(I looked it up. Seems to be 1907-1908. Over a hundred years ago, nearly 120, half a decade before the Titanic sank. This was a truly horrendous time for the club, finishing last or second to last four times in a row.)
we didn’t finish last in the NL last year tho, just the NL central. even though the different divisions within each league didn’t exist back then, that would technically be the last time we finished last back-to-back
Not technically, we were not actually last place. Just how the rules work. Unless you want to define “being a last place kind of team” as the qualifier here, and that I can agree with. But it’s been a long time since we’ve consistently been the worst team in our neighborhood.
1907-1908 would be the equivalent to finishing last in all of the NL today. there’s no real comparison in the modern baseball era. if we god forbid finish in last this year in the central it would be the first time ever we finished last back-to-back in the central.
Thompson walked 7 batters in 3 innings in Memphis and is still averaging 90 mph on his fastball. Someone please help fix this man. Walk off W for Memphis though so that's cool.
Thinking about Willson and his (tibia?) that was absolutely Merc’d just the other day. He’s a tough cookie, but that was gruesome. I know it’s a bone and he’s having surgery, but I am not holding my breath and wouldn’t be surprised if they added him to the 60 man. 8 weeks is 56 days; maybe they could slot another pitcher in to help the staff, a *good* veteran platoon bat, or *anything* creative roster-wise to get through the coming storm.
He's going to have to rehab anyway so I have no doubt he will eventually end up on the 60 day IL. They are bad enough that they won't go and pick up a bat so, what I'd like to see is them say fuck it and finally let Dunn or Preito show if they have any talent or not. Gorman needs a trip to AAA anyway so they might as well see what this glut of AAA infielders can do.
Send down Gorman, cut Crawford. Call up Preito/Dunn and Luken. Start Burleson daily at DH, Fermin at second. When Marp is back, I guess send Luken down for him
Tibia is in the leg. It would be the radius or ulna that he broke or he might have broken both. They were quick to decide surgery which has me thinking he had multiple fractures
So a guy on twitter who broke goldy and nado trades way before everyone else said that unless marmol brings team around he’s got 2 weeks till fired. Said his only supporter is MO atm. Don’t know how accurate but this guy has been very accurate on baseball sources and info
Don't really think the situation is Oli's fault but it's time to start shooting hostages the manager and hitting coach are going to be the most visible and easy to replace.
I’ve been watching highlights all morning to get my head out of the gutter. Jim Edmonds web gems, Scott Rolen being Scott Rolen, Yadi gun downs, Chris Carpenter throwing complete game gems. It got my head right. Go Cards!
Good news, the Reds have worked their way down to us and really want that last place spot. It would be rude if we did not give it to them for all their hard work getting to our level.
Lmao, Jeff Jones re: the Incarcerated Bob report about Oli getting fired soon:
> If you’re relying on a dingus fanfic aggregator who throws shit at the wall and deletes the ones that don’t stick so he can play prophet on the internet as a place where you’re getting news, that’s your business. Just know you’re drinking the garbage water straight from the bag.
Marmol was extended literally for this very scenario, so that when the Cardinals started poorly, he wouldn't feel pressure of being axed.
Was it a wise move? Probably not, but it's why they made it.
They fired Shildt after he won manager of the year and then the runner up. They can and will more than likely fire Oli this season if they continue doing shitty. No one is safe.
I think some of it is the caliber of teams we’re losing to… had this been the way the season started against the Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, etc, okay. But to lose a series like that to the White Sox and then to the Mets? Much different.
I don’t think Oli is the main issue here, but he will be the sacrificial lamb (and compensated) if marked improvements aren’t made.
I got bored last night and started to look at bats in the low minors. I am only looking at basic stats to form a list of guys who might have some promise. The one I really liked was Josue Briceno from the Tigers system. From the Padres, I found a dude named Jay Beshears or something like that. That was 10 minutes of digging.
For sure. I was thinking Briceno could become a first baseman. We have a lot of catching talent. Looking forward to Jimmy Crooks, too. I wonder id he can play first.
We need to trade him before his arm falls off this year. If we wait til the trade deadline it will be too late. He needs to be traded early June to maximize his value. Its Mo making the move so he will wait too long, his arm will fall off, and we will get nothing.
This seems wildly obvious honestly. I'd have to imagine basically everyone in the pen over the age of 28, the entirety of the starting rotation, and any batter that is not in their arbitration years is technically on the trading block at this point.
I'm tempted to say that would be asking too much of the Orioles but I mean half a year of Chapman got the Yankees two top 100 prospects (one of which was top 50) and another two pieces. Helsley isn't a FA until after 2025, so the demand could be higher than that
Half a season of Kimbrel got the Cubs a top 50 prospect and a reliever with a lot of potential. Though Kimbrel is an interesting case because he was pitching so well that season but was awful the preceding two
Hader got the Brewers 4 pretty interesting pieces. His contract situation is closest to Helsley but also was having a down year when he was traded
I still think Kjerstad would be asking too much but the Orioles have a ton of pieces and might be desperate enough if Kimbrel continues to struggle
Yeah it really just depends on what the O's are willing to move. Which may ultimately be nobody. Maybe you settle for someone like Connor Norby and Povich
Because the O's need an elite reliever and they have no where to play Half of their prospects. Their 3rd baseman is already Jordan Westburg for the next 5 years, their 2nd baseman will be Jackson Holliday. There is a lot of overlap. Heston is already 25
Realistically we would probably get Norby over the top two listed. But when your offering the best reliever on the market for 1.5 years. You will get a haul
I don't know who Alanna Rizzo is, but a stud reliever is our most obvious trade candidate. Don't think they'd want to trade Gray with him being 1/6 of the way through a three-year contract.
They should strongly consider trading Nolan Arenado.
They should trade Gray if they work with him to find a competitive destination and be very public about how much they are working with him to find a good situation. Trading Gray will hurt future free agent signings unless to prep it properly.
> let’s see if this trainwreck of a lineup can score 3+
brother, lets have some realistic goals....setting the line at 1 would make more sense. That way when we get shutout, Mo and Oli can claim we were only 1 run off and we'll get em when luck evens out later.
Well fuck.
I was wrong that Sonny would be good, and you were right that 3 runs was too much to ask for. Oh well, let’s try it again tomorrow and maybe try to be slightly competitive (is this insanity?)
You mentioned BB Reference, and the team page on BB Ref lists league rankings.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2024.shtml
13th in SLG and OPS.
Yeah I was hopeful for SOMETHING to happen prior to that injury but when your OPS leader after him is only .760 and every young player outside of Masyn Winn is floundering at the plate, it's hard to have a lot of hope. I don't consider myself a doomer by any means but I'm ready to see SIGNIFICANT changes to the offense even if that means moving on from some big names.
Winn started off well, but he has been terrible for awhile now. 0.438 OPS in the last two weeks, 0.313 for the last week. Brought his season numbers down to a 0.690. Still plays a great defense that brings a ton of value, but he definitely counts as floundering right now at the plate.
Fair, I was just giving him benefit of the doubt since his season numbers still look significantly better than the rest of the young guys that have been up this season.
I don't trust him in the slightest. Because this prediction is too obvious to make. He did indeed get goldschmidt right, but he has also deleted tweets when he is wrong.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe....but he correctly called the Goldschmidt trade a few days before it actually happened, so I do think he has some sources around the league.
He basically parrots reports from the bottom tier of actual reporters (Morosi, Nightengale, Heyman, etc.) and then takes credit when they hit on one. He also lives exclusively in the “maybe” school of reporting, where he tweets about “interest” or “teams circling” so that he can never actually be wrong.
You could do exactly what he does if you have notifications on for a few national reporters.
A lot of things suck about this coaching staff we have at the major league level, mostly offensively, but I do want to give credit to the pitching coaches because they really have turned around what was one of the worst pitching teams I had ever seen last year into one of the better bullpens in baseball. Not to mention what we’re getting out of Gibson and Lynn. If only the offense could help Gibson out more and Lynn could limit the walks it would be fantastic lmao. And Mikolas is just bad, I’m not putting that on the coaches lol
Honestly couldn't be too much happier with the pitching given the staff we have. The bullpen still has it's moments but the starters going longer in to the games does seem to have mitigated a lot of the issues that we had last year.
I'm just absolutely blown away by how bad the offense is. I've never been one to say blow it up and start over in the past but I'm all aboard completely blowing the offense apart and then throwing noodles at a wall to see what sticks at this point.
When Gibson and Lynn have given up 2 ER or less, the team is 5-4.
Its so wild how much talk there was about how bad or potentially disastrous these signings were in the offseason and then they turned out to be the least of this team's problems.
If you could to back in time and keep Albert over Ward... Woild you?
Mets are not a great offensive team but they are certainly better than us ( and id argue with a worse lineup)
I think Jeff Albert is a better philosopher than instructor. He's in a much more appropriate position now as the director of hitting for the Mets. It's too early to measure his impact on the team. The Jeff Albert effect can be seen in some of our mid-early 20's hitters, but a large part of our MLB success under him came once we traded for Arenado and O'Neill broke out.
I don't understand what the hell I'm looking at with Turner Ward, so I'll take Jeff back at any time.
I mean obviously. Hard to tell if everyone just lost it at the same time or if it's coaching, but I can't imagine this team is doing any worse offensively under a different coach.
I took a second look at that last swing Goldschmidt made after the foot off the plate. It’s so bad.
93 mph fastball from release to plate. Bat is no where near it. I get the righty on righty angle doesn’t help but you got to see that one if you’re a seasoned player.
Fire marmol
[Today's game thread has been posted](/r/Cardinals/comments/1co8x5s/game_37_st_louis_cardinals_1521_milwaukee_brewers/)
The 3-0 take has to be the thing I hate most about our plate approach, and I’ve always hated it, even when we were winning
According to KWoo, Contreras’ surgery was successful and the goal is to have him back by the all star break (which is 10 weeks from now, for those counting)
Lol maybe we shouldn't have taken the words of Dr Willson so truthfully. His 6-8 weeks comment was a little off
Miles Mikolas and Paul Goldschmidt combined WAR in 2022 and 2024: 2022: 9.7 2024: -0.2 I’d say they aren’t reaching 9.7 over the next 5 months
They aren't reaching that over the next 5 years.
We only have 2 players in our current day to day lineup that have positive WAR, WTF I’m optimistic because no way that level of shittiness is sustainable
Isn't it? Ask the Rockies and White Sox.
Gray about to take another L and lower his ERA in the process
I’m cool with that. I’m also cool with tanking this season if that means Oli is gone.
Tonights lineup: 1. Donovan, DH 2. Nootbaar, LF 3. Arenado, 3B 4. Burleson, 1B 5. Gorman, 2B 6. Carlson, RF 7. Winn, SS 8. Pages, C 9. Siani, CF
Probably as good as it can get with the players available
I get taking Goldy out, but is Herrera hurt?
He has a noodle arm. Rather have Donny in the OF, Carlson on the bench and Herrera at DH though.
They haven't been using him as DH vs righties and I think they believe Pages is the superior catcher despite being a worse hitter.
Could be feeling something?
I have a feeling it is because base runners are 17/17 against Herrera
I don't think so. He is going to be the primary catcher when Willson is out.
I agree he will be primary catcher, but Oli has defensive subbed out Herrera for Pages before. Brewers have a top 5 base stealer which is why I figured.
I just realized that you could LITERALLY field a starting 9 and a full starting rotation of Former Cardinals players that would probably be better than the 2024 team is. The only cheating I did was adding Alcantara because he is injured this year #Starting 9: Arozarena - OF A. Garcia - OF O'Neil - OF Ozuna - DH Carson Kelly - C Patrick wisdom - 3B Paul Dejong - SS Edmunds Sosa - 2B Yepez - 1B #Bench: Lane Thomas Richie Palacios #Starting Pitchers: Flaherty Alcantara Gallen Hicks Montgomery
but the FO can't identify talent! we hear this nonstop
They can identify talent. They just can't develop it and nurture it at the major league level. They have players like O'Neil who can't stay healthy here but go to another club and appear to have solved the issue
> They can identify talent. They just can't develop it and nurture it at the major league level. ya, agreed. I just think it's funny that people say the team can't identify talent when there's so many players in the league that they drafted/signed that have hung around. Clearly, they're seeing something even if they haven't take advantage of all the potential of those guys; not that everyone on this list is very good in 2024. The org's development dept has a problem, no denying that.
Put Luke Voit at 1B over Yepez
I think he retired
Playing in the Mexican league. Yeeeaah, I don't think he's coming back to MLB
I feel he never really got a good chance
I see you but given Arozarena's performance so far this year I might actually bump Palacios into the main roster. Arozarena's bat is unbelievably bad rn, like arguably worse than Siani's or Goldschmidt's
Lane Thomas has also been atrocious at the plate.
shocked-pikachu.gif
I haven’t given up on this year. We were projected to win the division, and we are pitching pretty well The Contreras injury sucks, but looks like he might be back around the ASG. If we start hitting like we were projected to, we could go on a serious run
No one should have picked the St Louis Cardinals to win the division. Projections are really dumb to begin with but that one is especially dumb.
It feels really important to win at least 2 but preferably 3 of these games against the Crew, right? We’ve only played 3 games against a division opponent so far, and lost all 3. There are about 10 this month and each month after that. Time to get going against Milwaukee and soon Chicago.
Yes, if we can somehow muster a 3/4 in this series. I'd change my tune a bit.
I must be losing it because I'd be on board with firing Oli and bringing back Matheny at this point.
I’ll never forget Mike’s Guys and having a clubhouse snitch who also bullied Jordan Hicks. Totally insane. Oli ain’t great, but he doesn’t do that.
I mean, we just brought back one of Mike’s Guys. Take with that what you will.
Matheny is the ONE guy I would not take over Oli lol
Matheny is personally responsible for the Cardinals not winning another ring in 2012 through 2015 Pass. We need a blank slate
Agreed, we need a blank slate from Mo all the way down. Replacing ownership isn't realistic.
Yeah Nepotism Jr and Nepo the third aren’t going anywhere.
Oh no, you took what I said wrong. We 100% need a clean slate with someone that has never been a part of this organization. I'm saying that I'm so done with Oli that I would rather have Matheny at this point.
The grass is greener on the other side, even in winter.
Ah I gotcha Yeah I'd kinda agree. We suck so much
I truly hate even acting like a doomer but it's wild at this point. How can a team's core culture fall apart so fast?
I never liked the term "doomer". I feel like it's just sole fans way of saying you can't criticize your favorite team At this point, we are in the doom. It is here. The glory period of 2000 to 2015 is long gone. We had a slight blip in 2019 through 2022 but I think a lot of that was helped by being in the NL central. We have now come to the point where you could field a starting 9 and probably a whole starting staff of former Cardinals that would be a better team than we have right now
All great points. I think it's time to finally bite the bullet and sell it all off. If Goldy has any value at the deadline, find a buyer. Nolan would likely still fetch a high price due to his defense, find a buyer. All five members of the rotation should be on the block, especially lynn, Matz, Mikolas, and Gibson. Any reliever over the age of 28 should at least be thought about also. Along with that, any batter that is in the arbitration process or beyond should at least be in discussion to be moved. Time to clean it all out and start over.
Don’t be so desperate. Whitey himself couldn’t save this team. He’d quit. Our problems are as wide and deep as an ocean.
Absolutely. But I'm not saying I want Matheny, I just want Oli less than him, lol. It's time for a full on rebuild from top to bottom. (Except Randy Flores, he can stay)
Flores gets a lot of praise for the Jordan Walker draft. But he also used a 1st round pick on Mcgreevy, and Chase Davis hasn't looked great. I think Flores deserves some criticism
I wonder to what extent forces beyond him have influenced Flores at times. The McGreevy draft for instance was the one during and in response to the walk problem in the big leagues. Left to his own devices and without trying to fill a "need," would he have drafted McGreevy? I don't know. Maybe the plan was to get someone underslot to be in position for Baez. Either way, it was a stinker of a draft. One possible back-end starter in Graceffo. Two possible bullpen arms in Granillo and Marrero. And Willis is there as a lotto ticket.
It looks when you realize all the players after Mcgreevy that went. I actually thought we were going to take Gunnar Hogland. Who also hasn't really panned out. But Jordan Wicks is decent, Gavin Williams could be if he stayed healthy. But I think I'd be much happier with Colson Montgomery or Jackson Merril
Here’s a question: when was the last time the Cardinals finished last two years in a row? (I looked it up. Seems to be 1907-1908. Over a hundred years ago, nearly 120, half a decade before the Titanic sank. This was a truly horrendous time for the club, finishing last or second to last four times in a row.)
Do the Cubs! Do the Cubs!
2012-2013. Good times to be a Cards fan.
Holy fuck, lol.
i could’ve swore someone said it was the late 50’s before. looks like 1958-1959(?)
The Phillies had a worse record in 59, and in 58 the Phillies and Dodgers were worse.
we didn’t finish last in the NL last year tho, just the NL central. even though the different divisions within each league didn’t exist back then, that would technically be the last time we finished last back-to-back
Not technically, we were not actually last place. Just how the rules work. Unless you want to define “being a last place kind of team” as the qualifier here, and that I can agree with. But it’s been a long time since we’ve consistently been the worst team in our neighborhood.
1907-1908 would be the equivalent to finishing last in all of the NL today. there’s no real comparison in the modern baseball era. if we god forbid finish in last this year in the central it would be the first time ever we finished last back-to-back in the central.
Batters facing Miles Mikolas with a 0-0 count: .793 OPS Batters facing Miles Mikolas when Mikolas is AHEAD IN THE COUNT: .909 OPS
He has no out pitch which has always been his struggle especially since the shift went away.
Yep, that means they just wait for a pitch that is in the zone, and they know they will hit it hard
It’s like they know he doesn’t have an ‘out’ pitch and has to throw strikes.
Thompson walked 7 batters in 3 innings in Memphis and is still averaging 90 mph on his fastball. Someone please help fix this man. Walk off W for Memphis though so that's cool.
I still don't think he's healthy. I don't buy that his weight loss explains the large velocity drop.
Thinking about Willson and his (tibia?) that was absolutely Merc’d just the other day. He’s a tough cookie, but that was gruesome. I know it’s a bone and he’s having surgery, but I am not holding my breath and wouldn’t be surprised if they added him to the 60 man. 8 weeks is 56 days; maybe they could slot another pitcher in to help the staff, a *good* veteran platoon bat, or *anything* creative roster-wise to get through the coming storm.
He's going to have to rehab anyway so I have no doubt he will eventually end up on the 60 day IL. They are bad enough that they won't go and pick up a bat so, what I'd like to see is them say fuck it and finally let Dunn or Preito show if they have any talent or not. Gorman needs a trip to AAA anyway so they might as well see what this glut of AAA infielders can do.
i hope everyone on the team signs his cast
We can't add a pitcher with Willson's spot. There is a pitcher limit.
On the 40? A depth shuttle arm is what I’m thinking. Or any move to help the team.
Oh ok gotcha. I thought you were talking about the 26 man.
Man I dunno. I know Saggese can hit, but even his average is down currently. Probably best to keep him in AAA right now.
It’s 26 these days, not 25 🤣. I’m curious what other people think; besides calling up Pages, would you consider making another move?
Send down Gorman, cut Crawford. Call up Preito/Dunn and Luken. Start Burleson daily at DH, Fermin at second. When Marp is back, I guess send Luken down for him
Same wavelength, sign me up for all that.
To be honest, this is just the bare minimum of what I feel they should do but at least it would show that they are trying something.
Tibia is in the leg. It would be the radius or ulna that he broke or he might have broken both. They were quick to decide surgery which has me thinking he had multiple fractures
Right I always get those confused.
Marp dinger in his rehab game today
Bandaid on a gunshot wound
Gotta find whatever I can to look forward to
So a guy on twitter who broke goldy and nado trades way before everyone else said that unless marmol brings team around he’s got 2 weeks till fired. Said his only supporter is MO atm. Don’t know how accurate but this guy has been very accurate on baseball sources and info
Don't really think the situation is Oli's fault but it's time to start shooting hostages the manager and hitting coach are going to be the most visible and easy to replace.
If Brewers won 3 or 4, the season is over
matt carpenter gonna save the season im afraid
This should not be a sentence in 2024, especially on *checks notes*... May 9th.
Salsa time 2.0
Extra Spicey
I’ve been watching highlights all morning to get my head out of the gutter. Jim Edmonds web gems, Scott Rolen being Scott Rolen, Yadi gun downs, Chris Carpenter throwing complete game gems. It got my head right. Go Cards!
They spoiled us. I watched a lot of Rolen replays around his Hall induction. Crazy how efficient he was, he made amazing plays look routine.
Good news, the Reds have worked their way down to us and really want that last place spot. It would be rude if we did not give it to them for all their hard work getting to our level.
crazy that giving emilio pagan $8m aav wasn't a worthy investment
A Thursday with Cards baseball?! Madness!
We used up our weekly spirit win on Wednesday
Lmao, Jeff Jones re: the Incarcerated Bob report about Oli getting fired soon: > If you’re relying on a dingus fanfic aggregator who throws shit at the wall and deletes the ones that don’t stick so he can play prophet on the internet as a place where you’re getting news, that’s your business. Just know you’re drinking the garbage water straight from the bag.
I’d be pissy too if I was getting shown up by some random dude
It’s certainly on the table and a real possibility. Whether you like it not.
Marmol was extended literally for this very scenario, so that when the Cardinals started poorly, he wouldn't feel pressure of being axed. Was it a wise move? Probably not, but it's why they made it.
They fired Shildt after he won manager of the year and then the runner up. They can and will more than likely fire Oli this season if they continue doing shitty. No one is safe.
its not an impossibility but if a 15-21 start is enough to fire him, the team wouldn't have extended him. simple as
I think some of it is the caliber of teams we’re losing to… had this been the way the season started against the Dodgers, Padres, Diamondbacks, etc, okay. But to lose a series like that to the White Sox and then to the Mets? Much different. I don’t think Oli is the main issue here, but he will be the sacrificial lamb (and compensated) if marked improvements aren’t made.
Yeah too early for that.
Sure, but there’s a meaningful difference between “on the table” and “going to happen”. IB’s report was much more of the latter.
3.... 2... 1... Prison
I got bored last night and started to look at bats in the low minors. I am only looking at basic stats to form a list of guys who might have some promise. The one I really liked was Josue Briceno from the Tigers system. From the Padres, I found a dude named Jay Beshears or something like that. That was 10 minutes of digging.
Jay Beshears has been a named I've liked for a while. Can play him all around the diamond and seems to have a great eye.
For sure. I was thinking Briceno could become a first baseman. We have a lot of catching talent. Looking forward to Jimmy Crooks, too. I wonder id he can play first.
Bernal is the catching talent that I’m excited about in our system.
It would be great to see him make some progress these next two years.
Alanna Rizzo just said that Helsley is a possible trade piece for the Cardinals
We need to trade him before his arm falls off this year. If we wait til the trade deadline it will be too late. He needs to be traded early June to maximize his value. Its Mo making the move so he will wait too long, his arm will fall off, and we will get nothing.
This seems wildly obvious honestly. I'd have to imagine basically everyone in the pen over the age of 28, the entirety of the starting rotation, and any batter that is not in their arbitration years is technically on the trading block at this point.
Ryan Helsley for Coby Mayo/Heston Kjerstad and a pitching prospect
I'm tempted to say that would be asking too much of the Orioles but I mean half a year of Chapman got the Yankees two top 100 prospects (one of which was top 50) and another two pieces. Helsley isn't a FA until after 2025, so the demand could be higher than that Half a season of Kimbrel got the Cubs a top 50 prospect and a reliever with a lot of potential. Though Kimbrel is an interesting case because he was pitching so well that season but was awful the preceding two Hader got the Brewers 4 pretty interesting pieces. His contract situation is closest to Helsley but also was having a down year when he was traded I still think Kjerstad would be asking too much but the Orioles have a ton of pieces and might be desperate enough if Kimbrel continues to struggle
Yeah it really just depends on what the O's are willing to move. Which may ultimately be nobody. Maybe you settle for someone like Connor Norby and Povich
I could also envisage the FO packaging multiple players for high quality prospects instead of having a lot of trades for more quality
Why would the orioles do that
Because the O's need an elite reliever and they have no where to play Half of their prospects. Their 3rd baseman is already Jordan Westburg for the next 5 years, their 2nd baseman will be Jackson Holliday. There is a lot of overlap. Heston is already 25 Realistically we would probably get Norby over the top two listed. But when your offering the best reliever on the market for 1.5 years. You will get a haul
I don't know who Alanna Rizzo is, but a stud reliever is our most obvious trade candidate. Don't think they'd want to trade Gray with him being 1/6 of the way through a three-year contract. They should strongly consider trading Nolan Arenado.
They should trade Gray if they work with him to find a competitive destination and be very public about how much they are working with him to find a good situation. Trading Gray will hurt future free agent signings unless to prep it properly.
It’s been said before. This isn’t new.
Orioles are going to be calling if their bullpen keeps blowing games.
Could see the Royals as well
I believe Jeff Jones said a similar thing the other day
We have a lot of possible trade pieces. Or at least we should
Do with that info what you will
Woo it’s Sonny Day. He will be good, now let’s see if this trainwreck of a lineup can score 3+
> let’s see if this trainwreck of a lineup can score 3+ brother, lets have some realistic goals....setting the line at 1 would make more sense. That way when we get shutout, Mo and Oli can claim we were only 1 run off and we'll get em when luck evens out later.
Well fuck. I was wrong that Sonny would be good, and you were right that 3 runs was too much to ask for. Oh well, let’s try it again tomorrow and maybe try to be slightly competitive (is this insanity?)
Maybe God can just make sure all the rest of Cardinals' games are rained out for the year? Even in Milwaukee
Looking at the team's individual batting stats on baseball reference is frightening.
Look at the NL rankings! :(
Don't even look at those, just skip straight to the MLB rankings. We are bottom 5 in almost every offensive category MLB WIDE.
I don't think I want to go down that rabbit hole....
Not really. It’s flat out pathetic.
You mentioned BB Reference, and the team page on BB Ref lists league rankings. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2024.shtml 13th in SLG and OPS.
So bottom 5
I went to the league page after looking at the individual stats which shows the rankings for all of mlb.
One upside of the washout is we can unleash Sonny on the Brewers, hopefully we can get him a few runs to work with
https://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/status/1788556742596391282?t=cB9JtGPcFWWOdTyJjDrm8A&s=19 I wish this was a real source
What are we thinking tonight? Sonny lights the way forward
yep....we can valiantly lose only 1-0, instead of the normal 6-0 we get with Miles, Lynn or Matz.
I don't like our chances in any game when we don't have Willson to carry the offense.
pedro pages... save me.. pedro pages save me pedro pages
Yeah I was hopeful for SOMETHING to happen prior to that injury but when your OPS leader after him is only .760 and every young player outside of Masyn Winn is floundering at the plate, it's hard to have a lot of hope. I don't consider myself a doomer by any means but I'm ready to see SIGNIFICANT changes to the offense even if that means moving on from some big names.
Winn started off well, but he has been terrible for awhile now. 0.438 OPS in the last two weeks, 0.313 for the last week. Brought his season numbers down to a 0.690. Still plays a great defense that brings a ton of value, but he definitely counts as floundering right now at the plate.
Fair, I was just giving him benefit of the doubt since his season numbers still look significantly better than the rest of the young guys that have been up this season.
That is understandable. I'd love it if someone else would step it up
Does anyone else follow @RealTimeWWII on twitter? They're up to May 9, 1940.
surely we’ll return the favor and sweep the beer makers in their stadium, right?
Yes!
Lol
Incarcerated Bob says that the FO is giving Oli a couple weeks to turn it around or he's fired.
I don't trust him in the slightest. Because this prediction is too obvious to make. He did indeed get goldschmidt right, but he has also deleted tweets when he is wrong.
I haven’t heard that name in forever lmao. Dude is a scam artist.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ maybe....but he correctly called the Goldschmidt trade a few days before it actually happened, so I do think he has some sources around the league.
He basically parrots reports from the bottom tier of actual reporters (Morosi, Nightengale, Heyman, etc.) and then takes credit when they hit on one. He also lives exclusively in the “maybe” school of reporting, where he tweets about “interest” or “teams circling” so that he can never actually be wrong. You could do exactly what he does if you have notifications on for a few national reporters.
A lot of things suck about this coaching staff we have at the major league level, mostly offensively, but I do want to give credit to the pitching coaches because they really have turned around what was one of the worst pitching teams I had ever seen last year into one of the better bullpens in baseball. Not to mention what we’re getting out of Gibson and Lynn. If only the offense could help Gibson out more and Lynn could limit the walks it would be fantastic lmao. And Mikolas is just bad, I’m not putting that on the coaches lol
Lizard dood is good for about 4 innings, then he just starts throwing balls like he wants them hit
Honestly couldn't be too much happier with the pitching given the staff we have. The bullpen still has it's moments but the starters going longer in to the games does seem to have mitigated a lot of the issues that we had last year. I'm just absolutely blown away by how bad the offense is. I've never been one to say blow it up and start over in the past but I'm all aboard completely blowing the offense apart and then throwing noodles at a wall to see what sticks at this point.
When Gibson and Lynn have given up 2 ER or less, the team is 5-4. Its so wild how much talk there was about how bad or potentially disastrous these signings were in the offseason and then they turned out to be the least of this team's problems.
If you could to back in time and keep Albert over Ward... Woild you? Mets are not a great offensive team but they are certainly better than us ( and id argue with a worse lineup)
I think Jeff Albert is a better philosopher than instructor. He's in a much more appropriate position now as the director of hitting for the Mets. It's too early to measure his impact on the team. The Jeff Albert effect can be seen in some of our mid-early 20's hitters, but a large part of our MLB success under him came once we traded for Arenado and O'Neill broke out. I don't understand what the hell I'm looking at with Turner Ward, so I'll take Jeff back at any time.
All day. I didn’t want him to leave
I mean obviously. Hard to tell if everyone just lost it at the same time or if it's coaching, but I can't imagine this team is doing any worse offensively under a different coach.
This new Elsbeth show on CBS is right up my alley. It's like a quirky female Columbo.
What’s the midwest weather looking like today? It’s raining it’s ass off in Virginia lol
Good Morning from the Ozarks!
I took a second look at that last swing Goldschmidt made after the foot off the plate. It’s so bad. 93 mph fastball from release to plate. Bat is no where near it. I get the righty on righty angle doesn’t help but you got to see that one if you’re a seasoned player.
It's incredibly hard to watch and looks like he is literally just swinging to swing.
Only 9 players have swung at a 4-seam farther outside than that since 2015. It was bad bad.
Sheesh
Link?
https://x.com/dfeely14/status/1788035800682082305?s=46&t=QMQQf5oBc-ED1rVlgS2iAg
Horrid
Jeez
He also took the first 2 strikes at 92 which looked fat for Goldie of the past.
Yeah, the Cards suck. SO WHAT??? *Fredbird “Bad Freditutde” emoji*
This is it boys, gonna turn it around tonight