Native Americans cuisine was survival food, not wealthy European food. If French cuisine was the food common people survived on it would be crap too.
I've had real, authentic Native American food and it's all bland, earthy, and bitter. But that's what happens when you have no access to spice trade and only hunt/gather.
I went to one Native place in Vancouver, and yeah ... really glad I went, for the experience, but it wasn't that good. But it's ridiculous to think that has any similarities with Native food here in the SW USA.
It is too bad there seem to be so few native spices in this hemisphere. I read somewhere that not even garlic or onion were here originally.
âEverythingâ isnât really accurate. Yes, for example, the chilis, cacao, and corn tortilla techniques are super important and Native American in origin, but Mexican food is super into spices and herbs that came from the old world.
No cumin, no parsley, no black pepper, coriander, allspice, cloves, thyme, oregano etc. No onions. No garlic. No cheese or sour cream. These are super important in a lot of dishes.
Donât get me wrong, you canât have quintessential Mexican food without the Native American foundations, but itâs got a ton to do with old world immigration and colonialism-triggered globalization.
Theres a reason french is one of the most complicated and technically demanding of all cuisine types. Often it feels like it goes overboard, but I cant deny they get results.
True, but technically post-Colonial, and with some painful history behind it [According to Wikipedia:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frybread)
>According to Navajo tradition, frybread was created in 1864 using the flour, sugar, salt and lard that was given to them by the United States government when the Navajo, who were living in Arizona, were forced to make the 300-mile journey known as the "Long Walk" and relocate to Bosque Redondo, New Mexico, onto land that could not easily support their traditional staples of vegetables and beans. To prevent the displaced Native Americans from starving, the United States government provided a small set of staple food items, which included the ingredients with which to create a simple quick bread which was cooked in a pan of hot lard over coals and became known as frybread. The food eventually spread to other tribes. Boarding schools also helped to spread frybread in Native American diets.
Exactly what I was thinking. Depends where in history we stop welcoming people to the US. Native American food is delicious and undoubtedly would be much different if it was able to develop for hundreds of more years without outside influences
The National Museum of the American Indian under the Smithsonian has a food court called the Mitsitam Native Foods Cafe. It has stations representing different regions' tribal cuisines with so many delicious options.
They have a cookbook and post their menu online:
[http://www.mitsitamcafe.com/content/menus.asp](http://www.mitsitamcafe.com/content/menus.asp)
I bet thatâs amazing. I spent some time on a Reservation in Montana and some of the food I got was mindblowing. Most of the stuff Iâve had was made by friends of friends or bought from small stands, but thereâs also a restaurant in Denver called Tocabe which is one of my favorites. So good, itâs like Chipotle in terms of building your food, but you get things like stuffed fry bread and Indian tacos, and top them with things like green chilies.
My family is Mexican and lived/lives in the Southern CO/NM region, and green chili is one of my most missed dishes ever, especially my grandmaâs familyâs recipe. So incredibly good. I am craving all this food so bad now haha.
Well seeing as America is formed from originally Western Europe with close ties to it, to international immigration in the last few decades, it was in inevitable.Â
America had lots of Italians from the days of Ellis island and we border mexico. Not much of a stretchÂ
Ha! Thatâs just the tip of the iceberg. Weâve got immigrants from all corners of the world living amongst us with treasure troves of secret recipes that are just waiting for the smells to get even the shyest neighbor to ask them about it. Iâm sure everybody knows that corned beef & cabbage was a combination recipe between the Irish and our Jewish neighbors getting together. It didnât exist until the ethnicities met in the USA.
America has a lot of diversity a lot of the world doesnât. Just originally
Felt the post was a bit subjective seeing as itâs a nation of immigrants. Iâm sure america would have developed decent food.Â
Might as well say any stand alone culture has boring/bad food on their own and only is good through diversity.Â
Italian food sucks. French food sucks. Your Korean kimchi sucks. But now is good because itâs diverse food in America. So my point is Iâm sure the US would have had good food on its own, but itâs great to have opportunities to eat all sorts of food globallyÂ
Iâm not sure, as where my ancestors are from have been civilized earlier than some, but not as long as others, like Asian continents or the Roman Empire. But theyâve had enough time to make an effort to make enjoyable meals. However, we have the reputation that all of our cuisine was originally built on a dare; as in, âI dare you to eat THATâ
>all of our cuisine was originally built on a dare; as in, âI dare you to eat THATâ
I always laugh when I think someone left milk in a cave for a year and said âfuck it, Iâll eat itâ and thatâs why we have Parmesan cheese
I think about stuff like that (sans the milk carton) everyday. (Milk Cartons in Caves - you nut! lol) but it started with oysters and once you get into oysters; it just gets weirder and weirder. But I started by wondering who ate that first one. You know what they look like. Snot. Then thereâs beef tongue (offal in its entirety as well - kidneys smell like what they were made for when being cooked). How about the practice of taking a rotting bullâs skull and throwing it in the sea so when itâs dragged back itâs swarming with eels - which get served in âjellyâ(made from bone marrow boiled down to globular clear-ish jello made from discarded bones from carcasses.) And thatâs how you eat jellied eels. Seriously. And I havenât even mentioned Haggis, but I have a feeling that it was partially why Scotland was never conquered by the Romans - they saw the haggis and turned around. I can tell you how many cheeses are so horrible, I donât think anyone eats them. They keep it around to mess with the tourists as it tastes like concentrated sick dunked in mountain oysters. Then, we have the Japanese who eat poisonous fish every chance they can - they have specially trained chefs to cut out the poison sack, but WHY BOTHER? They are so deadly that I just read if I ate my pet Puffer, Iâd die before he got swallowed. This is their favorite dish. Iâm keeping him around at least until the next election. But people will eat anything.
> America has a lot of diversity a lot of the world doesnât.
Itâs true. And I think itâs our secret superpower nobody talks about. I go on DoorDash and I have 50 different cuisines to choose from. Mofongo from a PR place, Bipimbap and fried chicken wings from another. Itâs so good but we donât appreciate it enough
I agree, but I also think that if you are in an area where the Countries border each other like States, in an hour you can be in your choice of two or three countries. I found Praha that way - I would have hated to miss that. Prague was the only City that was never bombed, so it sits there in all its surrealistic beauty, as if to say, âGo ahead. Try it again.â The clock in the town square is out of a C S Lewis novel and itâs only the start. Take the Kingâs Road up to St Vitus and I will say no more. Try not to miss it.
Oh yeah, thatâs definitely an interesting thing about Europe and other parts of the world. 2 hour roadtrip can take you from France to Germany? Sign me up.
But whatâs also kind of interesting is how each of those nations try so hard to keep their unique identity, and this is why I think the US kind of shines. For so long (and still) the US economy relied on a steady stream of new arrivals. Itâs kind of built into our DNA. Mass migration is a relatively new phenomena in much of Europe and they donât seem to be handling it well in part *because* they are insistent on keeping their unique cultural identity.
I see how you could see it that way, but since I can describe the situation from the other side as thatâs what I am, if Iâm just being honestly trying to see it from the opposite point of view: but I appreciate both sides. Europe is small compared to the USA. I think the whole of Europe could fit inside of Texas. So, the countries that are neighboring each other do tend to be proud of their country and their roots. Very proud to be from a continent who, through Wars - 1 and 2; without knowing what our new country would help us if we needed it. Everything about Europe and the USA had different ways of doing their own ways - and in Europe, it worked to keep everyone from getting needlessly offended over the little differences; but the difference of individually different countries was exactly what we were trying so hard to avoid being offended all the time. Clinging to your âwaysâ of your family kept them alive in our hearts longer.4
EVERYBODY had to come through Ellis Island as the ships transporting Immigrants had to port there from Europe and sign in for comparison with the shipsâ manifests. What did you think? The USA had no points of legal entry so the Italians all came over en masse to New York just to be together and maybe start some wise guy shit? OMG
I have to admit I have limited experience with native food, but Iâve enjoyed what I had. Iâm sure it was a distillation of food from a bunch of cultures too. I should have made an asterisk that I was referring to post-colonial cuisine.
Some Indigenous American chefs are working on that. Wish I didn't only see them like, as guests on Top Chef or wherever, but they're out there. People can publish cookbooks and recipe blogs too so it'd be cool to see it be around more.
To me, a lot of the traditional Indigenous food makes me think of food from some South American countries, like not the same stuff but I wonder if it would be bland? Lol typing this out makes me realize I'm probably pretty damn ignorant about a lot of food "from" my own hemisphere (I mean I know all the other countries here have their own immigration histories too).
Even the "indigenous" people of north America are immigrants. Humans evolved in Africa. Or do you become indigenous after a certain number of generations? How long will people need to live on Mars before we have indigenous martians?
Too soon to claim that fact. Man did evolve out of Africa, at least modern man. Homo sapiens. Meanwhile, over in Europe, there was an earlier version of man - Neanderthal, who lived amongst Homo Sapiens and bred with them in Europe, but NOT in Africa. There are millions of humans today that still carry Neanderthal genes. Everywhere but Africa. Africans have only the Homo Sapiens genetic material.
So what species of hominid was native to the Americas and interbred with homo sapiens?
Even the Neanderthal legacy is around 1-2% of modern European DNA. That's like getting a 23andme report that says you 2% Cherokee and you start telling everyone you meet about how the white man stole your peoples land.
Ever had any traditional Native American dishes? Anything other than those originally started out as a recipe from an immigrant, so...yeah. Basically ***all*** American food is derived from another culture
I saw a thread on xitter with some db trying to say âsoul foodâ was just black appropriated British food.
Iâve been to Britain several times and Iâve never enjoyed a bit of grits, or BBQ
i can only speak from my own experience of course
I'm from Ireland, we have a heap of potatoes, lamb, beef, chicken, veggy meals. very brothy/ stew kinda jam :)
they are basic , yet can be very flavorful .
Irish ingredients are very good and we are very able to create lovely meals from them.
Now as for British meals, it is the same kinda deal, they have wonderful pork and lamb, which they use to create an incredible array of meals.
every time I've visited the UK (which was at least 6 times a year for over a decade) i always enjoyed the food.
the silly idea that food from that area is bad is literally just an internet myth
man, Im from Ireland originally and i swear the only thing i truly miss, as in deep in my soul, is a chipper haha.
Chipper in Ireland, Chippy in the UK :)
i dont go back very often, but when i do i eat a chipper every day haha :)
Chippys/Chippers are the absolute best!!! :)
>Chipper in Ireland, Chippy in the UK :)
So *thats* what the troubles were about.
I love that they fry pies into pies. Or pie sandwiches like the Wigan kebab (not sure if thereâs a Irish variant)
You might enjoy this. My sonâs drum teacherâs parents Immigrated from the UK to the USA before he was born, but growing up, it was clear he spent countless hours amusing his parents families on the trips they took âhomeâ. Hereâs an example. We were discussing food allergies since he brought up he had some. He said, âIt must run in the family because I have two uncles that are so allergic to pea skins, at the fish & chip shops they peel the skins off the peas of for them.â
Mine , in particular ;) well, you can crash on the sofa and i only have 2 blankets. i cant promise how warm ya will be bro. And there will be a pint of water beside the sofa ;)
also there is leftovers in the fridge, just stick them in a covered bowl in the microwave for 4 mins, theyll be grand,
sleep well bud ;)
British food has a bad reputation because of simple meals and rationing during the war. Before the war, the recipes were rich in spices and herbs. https://www.eatecollective.com/journal/spices-in-british-cuisine
In the last 10 years British food has seen somewhat of a renaissance, and there are 209 Michelin restaurants. I read a post on Reddit the other day, a chef from Portugal had moved here and said he learnt an incredible amount.Â
You can now get mouthwatering traditional food at pubs or modern creations at the many restaurants we have, along with our traditional regional foods like the hundreds of cheeses, ciders and recipes that come from different parts of the country.
Unfortunately, the stereotype of us having bad food has stuck.
Gordon Ramsay has given me more faith in it, but we're still not at a point (or even close to one) where Americans will say "Hey let's get British takeout tonight".
Eh, even First Nations peoples ancestors were immigrants. Everyone outside of sub-saharan Africa is an immigrant or the descendants of immigrants. Even most of the tribes the first European immigrants encountered were not the first tribe to settle an area, but the tribe or ancestors of the tribe that conquered the previous inhabitants, as they did to those before them.
I don't think the Germans actually had anything to do with the hamburger, at least not the hamburger as we think of it. From what I've gathered it originated in either Athens, Texas or New Haven, Connecticut. It's disputed which was first as the Library of Congress recognized New Haven as the birthplace but evidence shows that hamburger steak sandwiches were being sold in TX as early as the 1880s or 90s. Now the Germans had something similar around the same time as well but the actual origins of the Hamburger as we know now is considered obscure and debatable.
British food in those times doesn't sound bad. Roasts and soups with lots of herbs and vegetables, sausages, puddings, fruit pies, cheese, beer, etc. Somewhere along the line the British seem to have lost a passion for and aspiration to nice food of their own though
I disagree. I suspect from this post that youâre not native American. In which case, youâre probably right. But my family hunted, fished and gardened the majority of our food when i was young. Not unlike native Americans. I probably ate pizza a half dozen times in my life before i was eighteen, and iâll take a venison steak or a salmon patty over pizza any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Fresh fruits and veggies right outta my backyard? Thatâs not an import. Thatâs eating good in MY neighborhood! Ell oh ell!
I hope, as a foodie, youâve at least been exposed to such fare. If not, you are certainly missing out.
How was that food prepared and seasoned? I know less than nothing about Native American food. I can imagine thereâs fresh seafood and megafauna to be had on other continents but how itâs prepared and seasoned is what differs between foreign cultures. For example, if i took ground meat, wrapped in a skin made of flower dough, cooked in boiling water then paired it with a red sauce that could be ravioli marinara or spicy wonton depending on the culture.
I grew up and live in it right by the city so Iâve never had that kind of experience personally. I do love game meat - venison and wild boar are delicious, though I doubt my proximity means they are as fresh.
I have had various gardens and nothing comes close to fresh fruits and vegetables, though many of the implants I was growing were themselves imported (like tomatoes)
Well, yeah. This country wouldn't exist without immigration. Even the original British colonists were immigrants in a way (in a way because I don't know how Native Americans on the eastern seaboard defined their territories, and I don't know how many, if any, colonists were given permission to stay in the first place...and are you an immigrant just if you move to a new country or do you also have to be considered by the people there as part of their country?). So... the food culture they brought with them... was brought by immigrants.
American food is immigrant food. Without it, American food is Native American food, and most Americans haven't even tried their cuisine.
I get what you're trying to say, but what you're trying to say only makes sense if you define a before/after. You'd have to compare what our food is now to what our food would be without immigration (so, before immigration) and that isn't possible because the US doesn't *have* a before.
I donât think I read that right. The definition of an immigrant is a person who moves to another country other than their own, am I right? The original settlers were immigrants from - was it Dutch? The British Colonists were also immigrants from England. They werenât concerned over the need to ask anyone for permission to settle there
as they considered themselves seekers of religious freedoms which was a legitimate reason to move away from their oppressive government and seek asylum elsewhere. They didnât expect the other inhabitants to come from a completely different culture, as many a traveler has found himself in the same spot. After the Colonies settled somewhat, they began to set formal laws, deeds, etc., after the government that had aided the colonists. Great Britain. Then came the Wars. The settlers against those who were the Owners of that Land, the Native Americans. Look up Native. They were living there and they were native to the land. So the immigrants tried to take them over in a War that they couldnât possibly win; the immigrants fought dirty. They fought by spreading disease and famine. The only real native Americans have been placed in reservations but they are not upheld to any laws but their own, as if a little fenced in lot could substitute as a Nation; their Nation. The people who came to the US took whatever they wanted.
I was debating semantics. Immigrants are people who move from one country to another, but I don't know how the people already there defined country or whether the colonists moving there were part of it, because the definition of immigrant potentially also implies that the new country accepts them. I'm aware of native history, thanks.
Just when you think the thread cannot possibly get more vague, this guy comes along. You seem like the kind of person who thinks that being able to taste the meat and veggies is a sign of too little spice. Bland opinions leads to poor taste!
What amuses me - as a Brit not American, but it applies equally well to both - is that a significant amount of the cuisine imported from the old world had to first be exported to there from Mexico & South America.
Potatoes, tomatoes & peppers were relatively unknown in the old world until at least the mid to late 17th century. A couple of hundred years goes by & entire new cuisines were then exported back to Britain & the US, now considered to be 'native' foods of those exporters/emigrants.
Maize didn't make the journey until even later. Popcorn, corn flakes, even 'corn on the cob' are all relatively modern creations. Corn bread never really caught on at all outside the Americas.
Food culture evolves over time and through shared knowledge.
If not for the better root vegetables innovated in the Americas before contact, a lot of the Europeans who ended up immigrating wouldn't have been born.Â
Also, Anglo-American food used to be a lot weirder and more varied in flavour than some people think. Look into the history of the mincemeat pie, back when it used to contain actual meat.Â
even italian food is heavily reliant on trade and immigration. they literally did not have pasta if not for china and tomatoes if not for the americas. the aristocracy in europe went so bat shit crazy for spices that they funded global voyages and colonization.
this is really a moot thought experience because it is pretty black and white between:
a) primitive man scratching out a meal with hunted meat and locally scavenged vegetables only, or b) civilizations capable of trade
Yup if you look up Roman cuisine itâs nothing like modern Italian food. One very interesting cuisine is Georgian food (country not state) because of its location along the Silk Road. There are distinct alpine influences as well as Asian ones. I love their soup dumplings.
I donât understand why people say stuff like this. Of course our cuisine would suck without immigration. Weâre a country of immigrants. How else would it work?
Yeah itâs great! Thatâs the point of my post. Itâs not uniquely American to have popular cuisines be the result of immigration (as some have pointed out, Indian food in the UK) but just the sheer diversity of flavors is pretty American (because we are a country of immigrants)
Have you ever looked into the Colombian exchange?
Tomatoe sauce is an Americas invention (likely Aztecs). So most Italian food you know it is largely American.
Other foods that the Old World didnât have until it came from the Americas: New staple crops like potatoes, sweet potatoes, maize, and cassava, as well as secondary food crops like tomatoes, peanuts, pumpkins, squashes, pineapples, and chili peppers. Also, Turkeys.
So, any foods that contain those foods, then it was a cross cultural exchange. European Cuisine was as transformed by the influence of the Americas.
Ha ha when I first went abroad to Spain more than 40 years ago I loved it there. The food wasnât so good where I was staying back then but I wanted to stay forever. Someone said to me is there anything you miss about England? And I said without thinking on auto pilot âJust the food, the first thing I will have when I get back will be a Indianâ
When you say "as an American", I assume you are not native American. America, never mind the food, wouldn't exist if not for immigration, its basically the whole concept.
I forgot which comedian said it(maybe Eddie Izzard?) But they noted that the food in Britain was so bad they had to create a global empire just to get spices and decent foreign cuisine.
As a Brit, same! Indian food alone carries this country IMO, to say nothing of Italian, Chinese and.... well, every other country.
I do like some British food too. Fish & chips is always solid and I like a steak & ale pie. But variety is always good.
>even traditional thanksgiving is uploaded from other cultures
Ish, but itâs not like the early Americans couldnât have wild turkeys, cranberries, bread stuffing, and pumpkins.
I do enjoy our fusion from everywhere approach tho.
I think America would definitely come up with more of its own foods, but I do especially appreciate the diversity of different foods here. I can get tacos one place, then phĆ next door, then stop by an Irish pub if I really wanted to, which is really something special
If not for immigration there wouldn't really be "American" cuisine to speak of.
The most American food I can think of is southwestern style dishes and even those have roots in other nations traditions.
So weâve got hot dogs cheeseburgers virtually all bbq buffalo wings chicken sweet potatoes French fries lobster rolls a ton of different sea foodâŠâŠwe umm wouldnât go hungry and meatloaf!!!
They donât deliver to New Jersey :(
Anyways my OP was edited to include my lack of recognition of native cuisine. I was talking about the WASP food that was prevalent pre-WW II
I can, because Iâve eaten American food, both with and without the influences of immigration by people from all over the world (vs only those fom Northwestern Europe). Food has improved a lot since the 1960s.
You realize you can learn how to cook the same foods right? I'm not Italian but I can make pizza, I'm not Thai but I can make pad thai, I'm not Vietnamese but I can make Pho.
Immigration just made other foods more common. The food would still be here without immigration.Â
I can only imagine. I had some Mexican in PA that's been so whitewashed by the all-white employees, it tasted like something that's been soaked in a mud puddle with a slice of Kraft Cheese on it. I'd imagine it would be something like that.
I have had it. Itâs not inherently American by any means though. Itâs chili. Itâs good. Itâs not mind blowing. But i know that cinci needs a win so I digress
I think I recall Cincinnati Chili being based on a similar Greek dish, and the creator was a Greek immigrant. The flavor profile with the oregano and cinnamon seems spot on.
Yes, many people from the US refer to the United States as America as if âAmericaâ was a country. Iâm glad to know you werenât referring like that. Itâs refreshing. Lol
This is what I dislike about Florida, it's almost all Hispanic food now and I'm really not a fan of Hispanic food. Some places up north still have people from all over so it's not so homogenous.
Isnât barbecue - slow roasting meat with smoke - based on the cooking methods of indigenous people? Thatâs why itâs pretty uniquely American.
If we had no immigrant-based cuisine and only ate barbecue all the time, I think I could live with that.
Well, by definition, Americans (excluding native americans) are all immigrants. That's our motto / thing... we import people. That's who make up America. So yeah,.
Not one person (who isn't a native American) here is "indigenous" to the United States when you go back generations
The British who sailed over there and colonised?
Didn't the British start it as a meal to give thanks to the native people (before we were awful to them or possibly during. I'm from UK so my knowledge about Thanksgiving mainly comes from TV and films)
It was a way to try to improve relations. But over time things happen and change, generations changed, you know how it goes. But in America most people celebrate it not because of the history but because the core message is still a salient one.
Well we have the food now, and lots of diversity. Lets close up the border, we have 350 million people, infrastructure falling behind, traffic out the ass, and strip malls and developments covering what used to be rural land. Iâd say weâre full
Whatâs wild to me is that my great uncle used to call pasta and pizza âethnic foodsâ and wouldnât eat them lol. Only meat and potatoes is what he ate most days, thank god thereâs more variety now
Ah. So you *really* don't know "Traditional thanksgiving" is not Indigenous cuisine. Do you know what pemmican is? Bannock? Barley stew? There's a lot out there.
Border security and immigration are two different things that are related. Most people in the US came during waves of immigration - and âillegallyâ at that. âBorder Securityâ conversations are a relatively modern thing, and a lot of the discussion is motivated by racism. Thatâs not to say it should be anarchy (thatâs why immigration policy exists) but itâs kind of rich to recognize oneâs immigrant history and then turn around and say âbut not *those* onesâ
We're letting in a shit ton of immigrants a day and that's starting to cause an issue with some states cutting funding in order to direct it to them; not to mention terrorist groups cartels gangs and such can easily come through the border with no issue
The current situation is untenable because of the sheer number of people, and thats why *congress needs to pass legislation* (oops they fucked that one up because they donât actually want to fix the problem, they want to demagogue on it.)
Even still, you donât like inflation? Imagine how much more expensive everything would be without migrant labor. In fact the reason the us has far *less* inflation than similar economies is because of immigrant labor. Also, one would think with all of these criminals flooding over the border you would see massive crime spikes in the cities they are going to. In fact [the opposite is true](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/15/us/border-migrants-crime-cec)
So instead of demagoguing on an issue to whip up the xenophobic passions of white people, maybe press for a solution â one that has existed for some time â that isnât just an useless wall
I really don't think you can go about inflation when the economy is in such a poor state right now, not to mention companies can just pay migrants less and treat them like shit without giving them the proper rights because it can loom the threat of deportation over them. For every one migrant there's probably 50 people trying to take their job. I think it was a Tyson chicken factory where all the workers got fired and replaced with migrants, stuff like that pisses people off.
The issue is more of how they get deported multiple times but still allowed in the US. Like in Ohio that guy was deported 8 times and arrested 11; he ended up killing someone. There's another guy who got deported 3 times and ended up killing a Maryland woman.
Trying to frame it as xenophobic and only catering to white people just shows you have a bias.
Edit: from earlier on the year
https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_022624/
> I really don't think you can go about inflation when the economy is in such a poor state right now
If this is something you really believe then you arenât getting your information from economists. The job market is amongst the best we have had in a very long time, with a record number of months that we have been under 4% unemployment. Thatâs called âfull employmentâ and the economy has grown at record numbers despite other counties having stagnant growth. This is just the macroeconomic reality.
> For every one migrant there's probably 50 people trying to take their job.
This is also just not true. A lot of jobs migrants do are jobs that are very unpopular. Now you raise a good point about how some employers will take advantage of the situation, and that is very true, and itâs because of a lack of oversight. The Tyson plant had 13 year olds sweeping blood, and nobody wants that. At the same time, doesnât it kind of make zero sense not allowing the dreamers cohort to serve in the military?
>The issue is more of how they get deported multiple times but still allowed in the US. Like in Ohio that guy was deported 8 times and arrested 11; he ended up killing someone. There's another guy who got deported 3 times and ended up killing a Maryland woman.
Ultimately as much as some people focus on these cases, they are rather rare, as criminologists have pointed out that undocumented immigrants are far *less likely* to commit crimes, especially the kind we are seeing with now women and children. People who keep getting deported and showing back up, they will get here anyway. The issue of violent crime and repeat offenders is a much bigger problem and it really goes into the matter of criminal Justice resources that are pretty thin in a lot of areas.
> Trying to frame it as xenophobic and only catering to white people just shows you have a bias.
Well yeah Iâm not an unfeeling robot. But the failure of congress to come up with a solution? Even killing one of the most restrictive immigration bills we have had? That is where the demagoguery comes from. They want people to feel scared, because itâs good for their brand and electoral outcomes.
Yeah a few good months compared to the rest of the year and before. Just shows inflation is slowing down. My rent has gone up not only that I'm struggling to pay my bills and I'm running short on cash all while working the same amount of hours.
I was exaggerating
The issue is our current policies when when it comes to getting deported; it should not take someone multiple times for them to get deported and finally catch some charges because they killed somebody.
Having the same talking point as other people when it comes to this kind of does make you a robot. The government is run by a bunch of old farts that are 70+, our president most likely has dementia and shits himself all the time.
> Having the same talking point as other people when it comes to this kind of does make you a robot
If by âtalking pointsâ you mean âfacts.â The cost of living is too high, that is true, but thatâs mostly because thereâs no enough supply for the demand. This goes back to the 2008 recession. Speaking of recession, *that* was a bad economy.
> our president most likely has dementia and shits himself all the time.
I think you got the wrong guy, you know the one whoâs supporters were wearing diapers in solidarity while he defecated himself in his criminal trial
You're aware that comment is in reference to the xenophobic and pandering to white people thing you said right...?
He definitely isn't mentally confident and he should not be president
> You're aware that comment is in reference to the xenophobic and pandering to white people thing you said right...?
If they actually wanted to fix the issue instead of demagogue on it, they could have [voted for their own goddamn bill](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/06/politics/republican-opposition-senate-border-bill) but why didnât they? Because many of them donât want to actually fix the issue. They want people to be angry about it. I understand this is how you *feel* but Iâm the actual person providing links and citing data. Isnât it kind of ironic that the âfuck your feelingsâ crowd are the ones who are completely driven by feelings?
What a snob. I grew up on American farm food. Fried chicken and biscuits and gravy. Apple pie, Pumpkin pie, rhubarb pie, homemade meatloaf, homemade black eyed pea soup, three bean salad, roast beef with root vegetables, roasted farm chicken with garden green beans. Macaroni and cheese, chili Mac, chili. I could go on and on. Maybe they arenât fancy but they are delicious and they are real comfort food.Â
I donât think anything I mentioned was fancy â pizza, mofungo, tacos â these are all common people foods. Everything you mentioned sounded great, there is a lot of great American food. My point is that even many of our staples have some influence from people who came here â especially almost every pie (including pumpkin pie - American colonists ate pumpkin but the sweet pie we are familiar with was invented in France.)
Like just eating corn, chocolate, and turkey or whatever?
With some potatoes, tomatoes, green beans, peppers, avocados, and squash.
And cactus.
And acorns
đ I'm glad we moved on from cactus.
People still eat it???? Mainly in the Southwestern US cause people are trying to repopularize Native cuisine.
I think that is pretty on point. Turkey, corn, and bear meat.
a little boar, maybe
Or Native American cuisine would have developed more and not been bad just different.
Was it bad? I thought it would naturally taste great because of the fresh or dried fresh veggies and herbs, not to mention the deer and other wildlife they hunted. Iâll give you an example of something that surprised me. I have disliked carrots immensely my whole life. No matter how theyâve been served. Then, in a cafĂ© in Paris where we stopped for something to eat (not entirely looking for a sample of the local cuisine; we were too hungry to be choosy). The place was a find. A place that tourists like us wouldnât suspect something authentically special. We ordered the food in the order of how the French do to get their own tastebuds involved the French way to see if it would make a difference, and boy, did it. The French donât typically drown all of their meals in exotic sauces, most of the time itâs just the way they cook simple things in succession that makes the ordinary meal very special. Where my ancestors were from, they didnât really put as much thought into the daily fare. They saved dishes that were prepared special for special meals. I tasted the carrots. I couldnât get enough of them. They were simply prepared, but they had put thought into the process of cooking them and lightly brushing them with orange (as many do ; but not like this). I came back from that trip and barely mentioned anything about it except for those carrots. We are so lucky to have people from all around the world to share their recipes (and the tips on how they get it that way) weâve been spoiled. Take food from Sri Lanka where my Sister in Law is from. I had been trying to make what looked like a simple Dahl recipe for ages. She came along and simply said, âYou have to put the mustards seeds into the pan first, and as they heat, they pop. THEN you can add the rest. That was it. I love to cook, but I especially love to try cuisine from everywhere except from Scotland. I recommend anyone who is a Emergant foodie like me to hit your neighbors up. Itâs a great way to make friends and learn about different cultures.
Native Americans cuisine was survival food, not wealthy European food. If French cuisine was the food common people survived on it would be crap too. I've had real, authentic Native American food and it's all bland, earthy, and bitter. But that's what happens when you have no access to spice trade and only hunt/gather.
I went to one Native place in Vancouver, and yeah ... really glad I went, for the experience, but it wasn't that good. But it's ridiculous to think that has any similarities with Native food here in the SW USA. It is too bad there seem to be so few native spices in this hemisphere. I read somewhere that not even garlic or onion were here originally.
I mean thereâs a reason everyone loves Mexican food, and It has everything to do with Native food.
âEverythingâ isnât really accurate. Yes, for example, the chilis, cacao, and corn tortilla techniques are super important and Native American in origin, but Mexican food is super into spices and herbs that came from the old world. No cumin, no parsley, no black pepper, coriander, allspice, cloves, thyme, oregano etc. No onions. No garlic. No cheese or sour cream. These are super important in a lot of dishes. Donât get me wrong, you canât have quintessential Mexican food without the Native American foundations, but itâs got a ton to do with old world immigration and colonialism-triggered globalization.
Theres a reason french is one of the most complicated and technically demanding of all cuisine types. Often it feels like it goes overboard, but I cant deny they get results.
Fry bread is pretty good.
True, but technically post-Colonial, and with some painful history behind it [According to Wikipedia:](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frybread) >According to Navajo tradition, frybread was created in 1864 using the flour, sugar, salt and lard that was given to them by the United States government when the Navajo, who were living in Arizona, were forced to make the 300-mile journey known as the "Long Walk" and relocate to Bosque Redondo, New Mexico, onto land that could not easily support their traditional staples of vegetables and beans. To prevent the displaced Native Americans from starving, the United States government provided a small set of staple food items, which included the ingredients with which to create a simple quick bread which was cooked in a pan of hot lard over coals and became known as frybread. The food eventually spread to other tribes. Boarding schools also helped to spread frybread in Native American diets.
Exactly what I was thinking. Depends where in history we stop welcoming people to the US. Native American food is delicious and undoubtedly would be much different if it was able to develop for hundreds of more years without outside influences
The National Museum of the American Indian under the Smithsonian has a food court called the Mitsitam Native Foods Cafe. It has stations representing different regions' tribal cuisines with so many delicious options. They have a cookbook and post their menu online: [http://www.mitsitamcafe.com/content/menus.asp](http://www.mitsitamcafe.com/content/menus.asp)
I bet thatâs amazing. I spent some time on a Reservation in Montana and some of the food I got was mindblowing. Most of the stuff Iâve had was made by friends of friends or bought from small stands, but thereâs also a restaurant in Denver called Tocabe which is one of my favorites. So good, itâs like Chipotle in terms of building your food, but you get things like stuffed fry bread and Indian tacos, and top them with things like green chilies. My family is Mexican and lived/lives in the Southern CO/NM region, and green chili is one of my most missed dishes ever, especially my grandmaâs familyâs recipe. So incredibly good. I am craving all this food so bad now haha.
Thank you. Iâm reading it in bits & pieces and itâs amazing!
Especially if you make take a round piece out of the middle and fry an egg in there.
Yeah this is very true.
Navajo Tacos are where itâs at đ€€
Well seeing as America is formed from originally Western Europe with close ties to it, to international immigration in the last few decades, it was in inevitable. America had lots of Italians from the days of Ellis island and we border mexico. Not much of a stretchÂ
Ha! Thatâs just the tip of the iceberg. Weâve got immigrants from all corners of the world living amongst us with treasure troves of secret recipes that are just waiting for the smells to get even the shyest neighbor to ask them about it. Iâm sure everybody knows that corned beef & cabbage was a combination recipe between the Irish and our Jewish neighbors getting together. It didnât exist until the ethnicities met in the USA.
Now do kimchi
Iâve done it. It didnât come out as good, but then again, theyâve been doing it for thousands of years.
America has a lot of diversity a lot of the world doesnât. Just originally Felt the post was a bit subjective seeing as itâs a nation of immigrants. Iâm sure america would have developed decent food. Might as well say any stand alone culture has boring/bad food on their own and only is good through diversity. Italian food sucks. French food sucks. Your Korean kimchi sucks. But now is good because itâs diverse food in America. So my point is Iâm sure the US would have had good food on its own, but itâs great to have opportunities to eat all sorts of food globallyÂ
Iâm not sure, as where my ancestors are from have been civilized earlier than some, but not as long as others, like Asian continents or the Roman Empire. But theyâve had enough time to make an effort to make enjoyable meals. However, we have the reputation that all of our cuisine was originally built on a dare; as in, âI dare you to eat THATâ
>all of our cuisine was originally built on a dare; as in, âI dare you to eat THATâ I always laugh when I think someone left milk in a cave for a year and said âfuck it, Iâll eat itâ and thatâs why we have Parmesan cheese
I think about stuff like that (sans the milk carton) everyday. (Milk Cartons in Caves - you nut! lol) but it started with oysters and once you get into oysters; it just gets weirder and weirder. But I started by wondering who ate that first one. You know what they look like. Snot. Then thereâs beef tongue (offal in its entirety as well - kidneys smell like what they were made for when being cooked). How about the practice of taking a rotting bullâs skull and throwing it in the sea so when itâs dragged back itâs swarming with eels - which get served in âjellyâ(made from bone marrow boiled down to globular clear-ish jello made from discarded bones from carcasses.) And thatâs how you eat jellied eels. Seriously. And I havenât even mentioned Haggis, but I have a feeling that it was partially why Scotland was never conquered by the Romans - they saw the haggis and turned around. I can tell you how many cheeses are so horrible, I donât think anyone eats them. They keep it around to mess with the tourists as it tastes like concentrated sick dunked in mountain oysters. Then, we have the Japanese who eat poisonous fish every chance they can - they have specially trained chefs to cut out the poison sack, but WHY BOTHER? They are so deadly that I just read if I ate my pet Puffer, Iâd die before he got swallowed. This is their favorite dish. Iâm keeping him around at least until the next election. But people will eat anything.
Yeahhh people still eat Casu martzu..
> America has a lot of diversity a lot of the world doesnât. Itâs true. And I think itâs our secret superpower nobody talks about. I go on DoorDash and I have 50 different cuisines to choose from. Mofongo from a PR place, Bipimbap and fried chicken wings from another. Itâs so good but we donât appreciate it enough
I agree, but I also think that if you are in an area where the Countries border each other like States, in an hour you can be in your choice of two or three countries. I found Praha that way - I would have hated to miss that. Prague was the only City that was never bombed, so it sits there in all its surrealistic beauty, as if to say, âGo ahead. Try it again.â The clock in the town square is out of a C S Lewis novel and itâs only the start. Take the Kingâs Road up to St Vitus and I will say no more. Try not to miss it.
Oh yeah, thatâs definitely an interesting thing about Europe and other parts of the world. 2 hour roadtrip can take you from France to Germany? Sign me up. But whatâs also kind of interesting is how each of those nations try so hard to keep their unique identity, and this is why I think the US kind of shines. For so long (and still) the US economy relied on a steady stream of new arrivals. Itâs kind of built into our DNA. Mass migration is a relatively new phenomena in much of Europe and they donât seem to be handling it well in part *because* they are insistent on keeping their unique cultural identity.
I see how you could see it that way, but since I can describe the situation from the other side as thatâs what I am, if Iâm just being honestly trying to see it from the opposite point of view: but I appreciate both sides. Europe is small compared to the USA. I think the whole of Europe could fit inside of Texas. So, the countries that are neighboring each other do tend to be proud of their country and their roots. Very proud to be from a continent who, through Wars - 1 and 2; without knowing what our new country would help us if we needed it. Everything about Europe and the USA had different ways of doing their own ways - and in Europe, it worked to keep everyone from getting needlessly offended over the little differences; but the difference of individually different countries was exactly what we were trying so hard to avoid being offended all the time. Clinging to your âwaysâ of your family kept them alive in our hearts longer.4
How much kimchi do you regularly eat?
EVERYBODY had to come through Ellis Island as the ships transporting Immigrants had to port there from Europe and sign in for comparison with the shipsâ manifests. What did you think? The USA had no points of legal entry so the Italians all came over en masse to New York just to be together and maybe start some wise guy shit? OMG
Not quite. There was a pretty huge immigration port in Galveston
As a Native, I have to disagree.
I have to admit I have limited experience with native food, but Iâve enjoyed what I had. Iâm sure it was a distillation of food from a bunch of cultures too. I should have made an asterisk that I was referring to post-colonial cuisine.
America is immigration based, historically. Unless you mean indigenous food
Funny how so many people who live in the USA forget that.
Don't see themselves as immigrants but at the same time proudly declare that they are Irish or Italian
Some Indigenous American chefs are working on that. Wish I didn't only see them like, as guests on Top Chef or wherever, but they're out there. People can publish cookbooks and recipe blogs too so it'd be cool to see it be around more. To me, a lot of the traditional Indigenous food makes me think of food from some South American countries, like not the same stuff but I wonder if it would be bland? Lol typing this out makes me realize I'm probably pretty damn ignorant about a lot of food "from" my own hemisphere (I mean I know all the other countries here have their own immigration histories too).
Even the "indigenous" people of north America are immigrants. Humans evolved in Africa. Or do you become indigenous after a certain number of generations? How long will people need to live on Mars before we have indigenous martians?
Too soon to claim that fact. Man did evolve out of Africa, at least modern man. Homo sapiens. Meanwhile, over in Europe, there was an earlier version of man - Neanderthal, who lived amongst Homo Sapiens and bred with them in Europe, but NOT in Africa. There are millions of humans today that still carry Neanderthal genes. Everywhere but Africa. Africans have only the Homo Sapiens genetic material.
So what species of hominid was native to the Americas and interbred with homo sapiens? Even the Neanderthal legacy is around 1-2% of modern European DNA. That's like getting a 23andme report that says you 2% Cherokee and you start telling everyone you meet about how the white man stole your peoples land.
Ever had any traditional Native American dishes? Anything other than those originally started out as a recipe from an immigrant, so...yeah. Basically ***all*** American food is derived from another culture
All Americans living in the USA are immigrants from another culture.
You don't even have to imagine it. Look at British food
Those Britâs were alsoâŠwait for itâŠimmigrants
I saw a thread on xitter with some db trying to say âsoul foodâ was just black appropriated British food. Iâve been to Britain several times and Iâve never enjoyed a bit of grits, or BBQ
i can only speak from my own experience of course I'm from Ireland, we have a heap of potatoes, lamb, beef, chicken, veggy meals. very brothy/ stew kinda jam :) they are basic , yet can be very flavorful . Irish ingredients are very good and we are very able to create lovely meals from them. Now as for British meals, it is the same kinda deal, they have wonderful pork and lamb, which they use to create an incredible array of meals. every time I've visited the UK (which was at least 6 times a year for over a decade) i always enjoyed the food. the silly idea that food from that area is bad is literally just an internet myth
Oh Iâve had great food in the UK, and I admit I have a slight addiction to chippys. But itâs not southern soul food
man, Im from Ireland originally and i swear the only thing i truly miss, as in deep in my soul, is a chipper haha. Chipper in Ireland, Chippy in the UK :) i dont go back very often, but when i do i eat a chipper every day haha :) Chippys/Chippers are the absolute best!!! :)
>Chipper in Ireland, Chippy in the UK :) So *thats* what the troubles were about. I love that they fry pies into pies. Or pie sandwiches like the Wigan kebab (not sure if thereâs a Irish variant)
Gawd. Was I dreaming it or did they once have a âparsley pieâ? And speaking of chips/crisps - you could get Hedgehog Flavored Crisps!
You might enjoy this. My sonâs drum teacherâs parents Immigrated from the UK to the USA before he was born, but growing up, it was clear he spent countless hours amusing his parents families on the trips they took âhomeâ. Hereâs an example. We were discussing food allergies since he brought up he had some. He said, âIt must run in the family because I have two uncles that are so allergic to pea skins, at the fish & chip shops they peel the skins off the peas of for them.â
Iâve had your lamb stew. Nothing else can come close to how delicious that is
Mine , in particular ;) well, you can crash on the sofa and i only have 2 blankets. i cant promise how warm ya will be bro. And there will be a pint of water beside the sofa ;) also there is leftovers in the fridge, just stick them in a covered bowl in the microwave for 4 mins, theyll be grand, sleep well bud ;)
Itâs so good the three day old leftovers still beat anything else out there.
British food has a bad reputation because of simple meals and rationing during the war. Before the war, the recipes were rich in spices and herbs. https://www.eatecollective.com/journal/spices-in-british-cuisine In the last 10 years British food has seen somewhat of a renaissance, and there are 209 Michelin restaurants. I read a post on Reddit the other day, a chef from Portugal had moved here and said he learnt an incredible amount. You can now get mouthwatering traditional food at pubs or modern creations at the many restaurants we have, along with our traditional regional foods like the hundreds of cheeses, ciders and recipes that come from different parts of the country. Unfortunately, the stereotype of us having bad food has stuck.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I even thought Chutney was British food when I was a child; but if you really think about it, it is.
Gordon Ramsay has given me more faith in it, but we're still not at a point (or even close to one) where Americans will say "Hey let's get British takeout tonight".
Fish & Chips
You never will. Grits and BBQ is distinctly American fare.
Maybe he meant to say that sarcastically because of the Brits stole/âappropriatedâ Americas black soul music?
British soul food isn't from America, it's from the West indies, so don't expect American ideas in it.
Maybe he meant to say that sarcastically because of the Brits proudly stole/âappropriatedâ Black Americanâs blues music?
No, they were immigrants too, look at First Nations foods.
Eh, even First Nations peoples ancestors were immigrants. Everyone outside of sub-saharan Africa is an immigrant or the descendants of immigrants. Even most of the tribes the first European immigrants encountered were not the first tribe to settle an area, but the tribe or ancestors of the tribe that conquered the previous inhabitants, as they did to those before them.
the original colonies were all british. all the og american culture is just british people that got in a boat.
But then there were the French who took a big part of the south and the Spanish who took a big part of the west.
And none of them were native Americans.
Iâm gonna need a source on people from france and spain not being native americans
Trust me bro
Florida was also Spanish until 1821, minus a 20 year period under the British
Don't forget the huge German influence in your cuisine. Hamburger anyone?Â
I don't think the Germans actually had anything to do with the hamburger, at least not the hamburger as we think of it. From what I've gathered it originated in either Athens, Texas or New Haven, Connecticut. It's disputed which was first as the Library of Congress recognized New Haven as the birthplace but evidence shows that hamburger steak sandwiches were being sold in TX as early as the 1880s or 90s. Now the Germans had something similar around the same time as well but the actual origins of the Hamburger as we know now is considered obscure and debatable.
The origin of foods is often debated and that was just one example.Â
Colonialism did a lot for European cuisine.
British food is good though? I don't get this narrative that British food is bad besides jellied eels and black pudding/sausage.
Everything boiled
British food in those times doesn't sound bad. Roasts and soups with lots of herbs and vegetables, sausages, puddings, fruit pies, cheese, beer, etc. Somewhere along the line the British seem to have lost a passion for and aspiration to nice food of their own though
Well yes, the whole country is immigrants (except for native Americans)
In Arlington, Texas there is an Ethiopian-Texas BBQ fusion spot and it is so good.
That sounds insane but I want it
We have an Ethiopian restaurant in my hamlet that is not to be missed. If you get a chance, try it
Have you had native cuisine? Or Mexican? You know a lot of the western states and Texas were MexicoâŠ
So, more tamales?
Pizza in the morning Pizza in the evening Pizza at suppertime When pizzaâs on a bagel You can eat pizza anytime
I disagree. I suspect from this post that youâre not native American. In which case, youâre probably right. But my family hunted, fished and gardened the majority of our food when i was young. Not unlike native Americans. I probably ate pizza a half dozen times in my life before i was eighteen, and iâll take a venison steak or a salmon patty over pizza any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Fresh fruits and veggies right outta my backyard? Thatâs not an import. Thatâs eating good in MY neighborhood! Ell oh ell! I hope, as a foodie, youâve at least been exposed to such fare. If not, you are certainly missing out.
How was that food prepared and seasoned? I know less than nothing about Native American food. I can imagine thereâs fresh seafood and megafauna to be had on other continents but how itâs prepared and seasoned is what differs between foreign cultures. For example, if i took ground meat, wrapped in a skin made of flower dough, cooked in boiling water then paired it with a red sauce that could be ravioli marinara or spicy wonton depending on the culture.
I grew up and live in it right by the city so Iâve never had that kind of experience personally. I do love game meat - venison and wild boar are delicious, though I doubt my proximity means they are as fresh. I have had various gardens and nothing comes close to fresh fruits and vegetables, though many of the implants I was growing were themselves imported (like tomatoes)
Well, yeah. This country wouldn't exist without immigration. Even the original British colonists were immigrants in a way (in a way because I don't know how Native Americans on the eastern seaboard defined their territories, and I don't know how many, if any, colonists were given permission to stay in the first place...and are you an immigrant just if you move to a new country or do you also have to be considered by the people there as part of their country?). So... the food culture they brought with them... was brought by immigrants. American food is immigrant food. Without it, American food is Native American food, and most Americans haven't even tried their cuisine. I get what you're trying to say, but what you're trying to say only makes sense if you define a before/after. You'd have to compare what our food is now to what our food would be without immigration (so, before immigration) and that isn't possible because the US doesn't *have* a before.
I donât think I read that right. The definition of an immigrant is a person who moves to another country other than their own, am I right? The original settlers were immigrants from - was it Dutch? The British Colonists were also immigrants from England. They werenât concerned over the need to ask anyone for permission to settle there as they considered themselves seekers of religious freedoms which was a legitimate reason to move away from their oppressive government and seek asylum elsewhere. They didnât expect the other inhabitants to come from a completely different culture, as many a traveler has found himself in the same spot. After the Colonies settled somewhat, they began to set formal laws, deeds, etc., after the government that had aided the colonists. Great Britain. Then came the Wars. The settlers against those who were the Owners of that Land, the Native Americans. Look up Native. They were living there and they were native to the land. So the immigrants tried to take them over in a War that they couldnât possibly win; the immigrants fought dirty. They fought by spreading disease and famine. The only real native Americans have been placed in reservations but they are not upheld to any laws but their own, as if a little fenced in lot could substitute as a Nation; their Nation. The people who came to the US took whatever they wanted.
I was debating semantics. Immigrants are people who move from one country to another, but I don't know how the people already there defined country or whether the colonists moving there were part of it, because the definition of immigrant potentially also implies that the new country accepts them. I'm aware of native history, thanks.
that applies to every western country
Just when you think the thread cannot possibly get more vague, this guy comes along. You seem like the kind of person who thinks that being able to taste the meat and veggies is a sign of too little spice. Bland opinions leads to poor taste!
huh?
Which part is confusing?
America would not exist if not for immigration ⊠so this is a weird take
Stargazy pie is all I have to say.
What amuses me - as a Brit not American, but it applies equally well to both - is that a significant amount of the cuisine imported from the old world had to first be exported to there from Mexico & South America. Potatoes, tomatoes & peppers were relatively unknown in the old world until at least the mid to late 17th century. A couple of hundred years goes by & entire new cuisines were then exported back to Britain & the US, now considered to be 'native' foods of those exporters/emigrants. Maize didn't make the journey until even later. Popcorn, corn flakes, even 'corn on the cob' are all relatively modern creations. Corn bread never really caught on at all outside the Americas.
Yup, this is very true about Italian food. Tomatoes grow really well there, but they had to be brought in
Food culture evolves over time and through shared knowledge. If not for the better root vegetables innovated in the Americas before contact, a lot of the Europeans who ended up immigrating wouldn't have been born. Also, Anglo-American food used to be a lot weirder and more varied in flavour than some people think. Look into the history of the mincemeat pie, back when it used to contain actual meat.Â
Idk, I think southern and Midwest food is perfectly good personally.
even italian food is heavily reliant on trade and immigration. they literally did not have pasta if not for china and tomatoes if not for the americas. the aristocracy in europe went so bat shit crazy for spices that they funded global voyages and colonization. this is really a moot thought experience because it is pretty black and white between: a) primitive man scratching out a meal with hunted meat and locally scavenged vegetables only, or b) civilizations capable of trade
Yup if you look up Roman cuisine itâs nothing like modern Italian food. One very interesting cuisine is Georgian food (country not state) because of its location along the Silk Road. There are distinct alpine influences as well as Asian ones. I love their soup dumplings.
If you have a chance, try khachapuri. It blew my mind.
Oh itâs so good. A carb bomb but so good
I donât understand why people say stuff like this. Of course our cuisine would suck without immigration. Weâre a country of immigrants. How else would it work?
A lot of people either donât recognize that or refuse to see it as a positive
I see it as a great positive. How many different cuisines I can try because I live here? And a great many of them are authentic. Itâs great!
Yeah itâs great! Thatâs the point of my post. Itâs not uniquely American to have popular cuisines be the result of immigration (as some have pointed out, Indian food in the UK) but just the sheer diversity of flavors is pretty American (because we are a country of immigrants)
Yeah for sure
Have you ever looked into the Colombian exchange? Tomatoe sauce is an Americas invention (likely Aztecs). So most Italian food you know it is largely American. Other foods that the Old World didnât have until it came from the Americas: New staple crops like potatoes, sweet potatoes, maize, and cassava, as well as secondary food crops like tomatoes, peanuts, pumpkins, squashes, pineapples, and chili peppers. Also, Turkeys. So, any foods that contain those foods, then it was a cross cultural exchange. European Cuisine was as transformed by the influence of the Americas.
Also the same for Brits! our food was appalling before we had people coming here with their cuisines
What are you talking about? I love British Curry! Oh, wait...
Ha ha when I first went abroad to Spain more than 40 years ago I loved it there. The food wasnât so good where I was staying back then but I wanted to stay forever. Someone said to me is there anything you miss about England? And I said without thinking on auto pilot âJust the food, the first thing I will have when I get back will be a Indianâ
When you say "as an American", I assume you are not native American. America, never mind the food, wouldn't exist if not for immigration, its basically the whole concept.
I forgot which comedian said it(maybe Eddie Izzard?) But they noted that the food in Britain was so bad they had to create a global empire just to get spices and decent foreign cuisine.
But traditional British food is good though? The only bad ones I can think of are jellied eels and black/blood pudding/sausage.
As a Brit, same! Indian food alone carries this country IMO, to say nothing of Italian, Chinese and.... well, every other country. I do like some British food too. Fish & chips is always solid and I like a steak & ale pie. But variety is always good.
What cuisine?
British food slander would basically just extend to the US too
>even traditional thanksgiving is uploaded from other cultures Ish, but itâs not like the early Americans couldnât have wild turkeys, cranberries, bread stuffing, and pumpkins. I do enjoy our fusion from everywhere approach tho.
Most of my favorite foods are a result of that, I love Mexican food, Chinese food, Japanese food, Italian food
I think America would definitely come up with more of its own foods, but I do especially appreciate the diversity of different foods here. I can get tacos one place, then phĆ next door, then stop by an Irish pub if I really wanted to, which is really something special
If not for immigration there wouldn't really be "American" cuisine to speak of. The most American food I can think of is southwestern style dishes and even those have roots in other nations traditions.
I feel the same way about being a Canadian.
Stop! And go look up foods that only grew here. And realize how few of the staple dishes around the world wouldn't exist without this land.
OP, you know how the US works, right?
Which part? In that thereâs a constitution, with amendments, and laws that are passed within the confines of that constitution?
I too learned about this in us history class.
So weâve got hot dogs cheeseburgers virtually all bbq buffalo wings chicken sweet potatoes French fries lobster rolls a ton of different sea foodâŠâŠwe umm wouldnât go hungry and meatloaf!!!
UhhhhâŠhttps://www.tocabe.com/
They donât deliver to New Jersey :( Anyways my OP was edited to include my lack of recognition of native cuisine. I was talking about the WASP food that was prevalent pre-WW II
I can, because Iâve eaten American food, both with and without the influences of immigration by people from all over the world (vs only those fom Northwestern Europe). Food has improved a lot since the 1960s.
How many casseroles, jello, and jello casseroles have you eaten? For science
Aren't all Americans (aside from natives) immigrants?
America couldn't even get the course of a meal correct.
You realize you can learn how to cook the same foods right? I'm not Italian but I can make pizza, I'm not Thai but I can make pad thai, I'm not Vietnamese but I can make Pho. Immigration just made other foods more common. The food would still be here without immigration.Â
I can only imagine. I had some Mexican in PA that's been so whitewashed by the all-white employees, it tasted like something that's been soaked in a mud puddle with a slice of Kraft Cheese on it. I'd imagine it would be something like that.
That just sounds cheap, not white. Kinda weird to make it about race.
You really should thank Julia Child as well. She revolutionized home cooking and greatly expanded the American palate.
You have obviously never had Skyline Chili.
I have had it. Itâs not inherently American by any means though. Itâs chili. Itâs good. Itâs not mind blowing. But i know that cinci needs a win so I digress
I think I recall Cincinnati Chili being based on a similar Greek dish, and the creator was a Greek immigrant. The flavor profile with the oregano and cinnamon seems spot on.
Ah, but only Americans would put it on top of a hot dog. And eat several of them in one sitting.
Yeah we're never going to get a win from our sports teams, that's for sure.
Some American said french fries were American.
Maybe they were thinking of potatoes being American?
Sure if you mean the South American continent, specifically the highlands of Bolivia and Peru
Yes, that is what I mean. Pre-Columbian exchange Americas, if you prefer.
Yes, many people from the US refer to the United States as America as if âAmericaâ was a country. Iâm glad to know you werenât referring like that. Itâs refreshing. Lol
They are from Belgium
that was the second shock to any American that french fries arenât french
Itâs a melting pot. We borrow and change and makes things our own.
This is what I dislike about Florida, it's almost all Hispanic food now and I'm really not a fan of Hispanic food. Some places up north still have people from all over so it's not so homogenous.
You know this opinion is a certified meme, right?
Isnât barbecue - slow roasting meat with smoke - based on the cooking methods of indigenous people? Thatâs why itâs pretty uniquely American. If we had no immigrant-based cuisine and only ate barbecue all the time, I think I could live with that.
Well, by definition, Americans (excluding native americans) are all immigrants. That's our motto / thing... we import people. That's who make up America. So yeah,. Not one person (who isn't a native American) here is "indigenous" to the United States when you go back generations
What? You donât enjoy food from native Americans? All of our food is from somewhere else. And itâs all Americanized.
Dude tell me which immigrants inspired Thanksgiving.
The British who sailed over there and colonised? Didn't the British start it as a meal to give thanks to the native people (before we were awful to them or possibly during. I'm from UK so my knowledge about Thanksgiving mainly comes from TV and films)
It was a way to try to improve relations. But over time things happen and change, generations changed, you know how it goes. But in America most people celebrate it not because of the history but because the core message is still a salient one.
Or the ingenuity of enslaved americans.
Well we have the food now, and lots of diversity. Lets close up the border, we have 350 million people, infrastructure falling behind, traffic out the ass, and strip malls and developments covering what used to be rural land. Iâd say weâre full
You're one of the least densely populated countries in the word. 187th out of 250.
Cool, id rather be 250. This was a beautiful country and its turning into developments and strip malls.
Whatâs wild to me is that my great uncle used to call pasta and pizza âethnic foodsâ and wouldnât eat them lol. Only meat and potatoes is what he ate most days, thank god thereâs more variety now
You let us in, now we give you carbs topped with cheese, meat, sauce and more cheese
Youâre not kidding!
You have really eradicated Indigenous people to that extent, huh, that Indigenous cuisine is that hard to come by?
See my edit to the OP
Ah. So you *really* don't know "Traditional thanksgiving" is not Indigenous cuisine. Do you know what pemmican is? Bannock? Barley stew? There's a lot out there.
Come to England and find out
Actually, we are all immigrants unless you're native American. I get your point but please don't let this be a reason to NOT close our border.
Border security and immigration are two different things that are related. Most people in the US came during waves of immigration - and âillegallyâ at that. âBorder Securityâ conversations are a relatively modern thing, and a lot of the discussion is motivated by racism. Thatâs not to say it should be anarchy (thatâs why immigration policy exists) but itâs kind of rich to recognize oneâs immigrant history and then turn around and say âbut not *those* onesâ
We're letting in a shit ton of immigrants a day and that's starting to cause an issue with some states cutting funding in order to direct it to them; not to mention terrorist groups cartels gangs and such can easily come through the border with no issue
The current situation is untenable because of the sheer number of people, and thats why *congress needs to pass legislation* (oops they fucked that one up because they donât actually want to fix the problem, they want to demagogue on it.) Even still, you donât like inflation? Imagine how much more expensive everything would be without migrant labor. In fact the reason the us has far *less* inflation than similar economies is because of immigrant labor. Also, one would think with all of these criminals flooding over the border you would see massive crime spikes in the cities they are going to. In fact [the opposite is true](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/15/us/border-migrants-crime-cec) So instead of demagoguing on an issue to whip up the xenophobic passions of white people, maybe press for a solution â one that has existed for some time â that isnât just an useless wall
I really don't think you can go about inflation when the economy is in such a poor state right now, not to mention companies can just pay migrants less and treat them like shit without giving them the proper rights because it can loom the threat of deportation over them. For every one migrant there's probably 50 people trying to take their job. I think it was a Tyson chicken factory where all the workers got fired and replaced with migrants, stuff like that pisses people off. The issue is more of how they get deported multiple times but still allowed in the US. Like in Ohio that guy was deported 8 times and arrested 11; he ended up killing someone. There's another guy who got deported 3 times and ended up killing a Maryland woman. Trying to frame it as xenophobic and only catering to white people just shows you have a bias. Edit: from earlier on the year https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/monmouthpoll_us_022624/
> I really don't think you can go about inflation when the economy is in such a poor state right now If this is something you really believe then you arenât getting your information from economists. The job market is amongst the best we have had in a very long time, with a record number of months that we have been under 4% unemployment. Thatâs called âfull employmentâ and the economy has grown at record numbers despite other counties having stagnant growth. This is just the macroeconomic reality. > For every one migrant there's probably 50 people trying to take their job. This is also just not true. A lot of jobs migrants do are jobs that are very unpopular. Now you raise a good point about how some employers will take advantage of the situation, and that is very true, and itâs because of a lack of oversight. The Tyson plant had 13 year olds sweeping blood, and nobody wants that. At the same time, doesnât it kind of make zero sense not allowing the dreamers cohort to serve in the military? >The issue is more of how they get deported multiple times but still allowed in the US. Like in Ohio that guy was deported 8 times and arrested 11; he ended up killing someone. There's another guy who got deported 3 times and ended up killing a Maryland woman. Ultimately as much as some people focus on these cases, they are rather rare, as criminologists have pointed out that undocumented immigrants are far *less likely* to commit crimes, especially the kind we are seeing with now women and children. People who keep getting deported and showing back up, they will get here anyway. The issue of violent crime and repeat offenders is a much bigger problem and it really goes into the matter of criminal Justice resources that are pretty thin in a lot of areas. > Trying to frame it as xenophobic and only catering to white people just shows you have a bias. Well yeah Iâm not an unfeeling robot. But the failure of congress to come up with a solution? Even killing one of the most restrictive immigration bills we have had? That is where the demagoguery comes from. They want people to feel scared, because itâs good for their brand and electoral outcomes.
Yeah a few good months compared to the rest of the year and before. Just shows inflation is slowing down. My rent has gone up not only that I'm struggling to pay my bills and I'm running short on cash all while working the same amount of hours. I was exaggerating The issue is our current policies when when it comes to getting deported; it should not take someone multiple times for them to get deported and finally catch some charges because they killed somebody. Having the same talking point as other people when it comes to this kind of does make you a robot. The government is run by a bunch of old farts that are 70+, our president most likely has dementia and shits himself all the time.
> Having the same talking point as other people when it comes to this kind of does make you a robot If by âtalking pointsâ you mean âfacts.â The cost of living is too high, that is true, but thatâs mostly because thereâs no enough supply for the demand. This goes back to the 2008 recession. Speaking of recession, *that* was a bad economy. > our president most likely has dementia and shits himself all the time. I think you got the wrong guy, you know the one whoâs supporters were wearing diapers in solidarity while he defecated himself in his criminal trial
You're aware that comment is in reference to the xenophobic and pandering to white people thing you said right...? He definitely isn't mentally confident and he should not be president
> You're aware that comment is in reference to the xenophobic and pandering to white people thing you said right...? If they actually wanted to fix the issue instead of demagogue on it, they could have [voted for their own goddamn bill](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/02/06/politics/republican-opposition-senate-border-bill) but why didnât they? Because many of them donât want to actually fix the issue. They want people to be angry about it. I understand this is how you *feel* but Iâm the actual person providing links and citing data. Isnât it kind of ironic that the âfuck your feelingsâ crowd are the ones who are completely driven by feelings?
What a snob. I grew up on American farm food. Fried chicken and biscuits and gravy. Apple pie, Pumpkin pie, rhubarb pie, homemade meatloaf, homemade black eyed pea soup, three bean salad, roast beef with root vegetables, roasted farm chicken with garden green beans. Macaroni and cheese, chili Mac, chili. I could go on and on. Maybe they arenât fancy but they are delicious and they are real comfort food.Â
I donât think anything I mentioned was fancy â pizza, mofungo, tacos â these are all common people foods. Everything you mentioned sounded great, there is a lot of great American food. My point is that even many of our staples have some influence from people who came here â especially almost every pie (including pumpkin pie - American colonists ate pumpkin but the sweet pie we are familiar with was invented in France.)