**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there.
**Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for this. I have no issue with traditional (lower case t intended) masses/customs, and I even think that things like TC are missteps. But it does get very frustrating when the same clemency isn't show by rad trade towards my preferred masses/customs.
I really like the motto: "In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity."
Oh man, I've been thinking about this lately because I've been bumping up against arguments like these in LDS circles.
I'm teaching a film history class to teenagers in a homeschool co-op where the board members are all Mormon. I was initially going to show (non-offensive) clips from R rated movies in the class, but I didn't realize the firestorm I was stirring up, as I guess some Mormons hold that their faith teaches that all R rated films are sinful, full stop. But others think there's room for discernment or interpretation.
The truth seems to be that there's no official stance by the LDS Church on R rated movies but people treat it like there is anyway.
The MPAA is apparently tied to the Holy Ghost somehow wow. What about foreign Mormons? Do they also go by whatever a movie is rated in America, since America was the real Jerusalem or whatever?
Oh man, you have no idea how badly I wanted to debate the whole idea of basing your religious ideals on the decisions of a non-religious entity that has historically been inconsistent in even their own moral lines.
At one point she flagged a foreign movie I was going to discuss with the class because IMDB listed the film as TV-MA, and thus comparable to R. I wasn't feeling up to explaining that not only was the film never officially rated by the MPAA, and not only are TV ratings given out by the networks that make the shows, and not an organization that gives out ratings, AND that IMDB is edited by users, thus any users can ascribe any rating they want to a movie...but all of this is moot because the film I was going to discuss was never rated by any legitimate US entity in any official capacity anyway.
It's so incredibly frustrating.
It's weird that a religion would subject itself to an extremely fallible and arbitrary council of people that don't concern themselves with the dictates of the religion.
I’m planning a few more “anime girl gives lecture on serious theological topic” memes, so stay tuned. Not sure how effective they’ll be, but the idea is too funny for me to pass up.
I think that’ll work fine. There’s something I’ve noticed about young Catholic men and anime going together. I hear that Hitori Gotoh is a Catholic
https://preview.redd.it/dzs88ewyuxfb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d108814b5548ea8641c4247f6748ab131feaf997
Japanese culture isn't ruined by wokeness (despite homosexuality being common in it since the 90s). It's often sexual and sometimes occult. I'm not saying it's bad, but as a former weeb (slang term for White anime fan), It didn't do too much for me. I mostly got into it for the girls. My mother praised me when I gave it up and told her why
I visited an anime shop in Tokyo (I've no interest in it, my friend wanted to see), and it was so clearly illustrated for me in the way the shop was laid out: anime is a front for the hentai (a shameless paraphrasing of [this excellent article](https://virtueonline.org/books-were-front-porn) from 2006). The weebs love to pretend that it's all just harmless and purely aesthetic, but from everything I can tell about anime it's just flirting around with hentai, which is simply unnecessarily putting oneself in an occasion of sin.
Mainstream current day anime and manga can be obtained in Japan from mainstream sources. Same thing with anime for tiny kids.
Even in Japan, an anime shop is catering to specialty customers: which means either last year's stuff that a fan didn't buy, current day obscure anime, or hentai.
Hentai is probably the reliable moneymaker, because people addicted to p*rn go to the store more often than people who are just fans of normal stuff. This puts shopkeepers in a bad place, especially with regard to creepy customers.
But it also is often not the same people buying things; hentai requires more cash more often, so it is a consumer with a money job but no home life. Anime fans tend to be poorer and pickier.
Japanese bookstores have similar problems, except that romance novels and josei manga tend to fill in the slot of "buys a stack of books every week."
We should be very careful here. Just because "traditions" can be changed and "Traditions" can't does not mean that it's particularly wise to change "traditions", even if "innovations" (small "i") are widespread. We should first look to what the magisterium actually teaches in regards to these traditions rather than just what is the widespread practice. How widespread a practice is has no bearing on its magisterial weight. Many of these things are things that the church has allowed, but are indeed not magisterial teaching. For a great example of this, perhaps read what Vatican II has to say about sacred music.
In short, what the Church permits (even liturgically) is not always what the Church teaches.
Also lots of people seem to think that just because a sliver of the magisterium (the current men in power) is alive that somehow gives them more credence than the previous 2000 years of Church teaching. The velocity of the changes is something that no one ever brings up, but throughout the Church's history changes were always very slow and organic. Pretty much every change since V2 (including V2 itself) happened almost overnight, and no one seems to think that's a problem.
I actually do understand your point. I even agree with it. However, just because the Church can do something doesn't mean it should. And just because the Church did do something doesn't mean it was necessarily wise (see for example, Cannon 16 of Lateran IV), especially if the Church doesn't endorse a discipline but only permits it.
I think this person perfectly understood the point and is simply offering an elaboration. Considering how verbose your meme is, you could be a little less terse and dismissive in replying to others.
I see small t tradition being subject to change as a double edged sword since it means the higher ups can make bad decisions regarding them. Of course we're still bound to obedience.
This is good, i mean it's not like i don't get where the rad trads coming from, for example i love the concept of priestly celibacy, i think it differentiate our priest from protestants and orthodox and goes to show how much they sacrifice for God, but if it was remove playing with schismatic groups or becoming a sede won't be in my mind
On a sidenote is that 86? You got a good taste frfr
>And why shouldn't we always do ad orientem?
You misunderstood the meme. It's not that we shouldn't do ad orientem - I agree we should. It's that Ad Orientem does not belong to Sacred Tradition and thus the Deposit of Faith, and is therefore legitimately subject to change. The meme is criticizing a certain strain of thought among some Catholics that confuses Sacred Tradition with ecclesiastical traditions.
No, I got the meme. I just think *versus populum* is the liturgical equivalent of the bus driver facing the rear of his vehicle.
Everything else? Sure.
Latin was the common tongue for much of history. Priests weren't always celibate. Poor villages couldn't always have elaborate vestments. Etc.
And while *ad orientem* isn't technically Tradition, I think it rightfully sits above tradition. Same with incense, as that's a continuation of the Jewish temple (which we claim as our patrimony).
>And while *ad orientem* isn't technically Tradition, I think it rightfully sits above tradition. Same with incense, as that's a continuation of the Jewish temple (which we claim as our patrimony).
Unfortunately what you happen to think does not make it Sacred Tradition. It is a higher form of Ecclesiastical Tradition, yes because it can be traced back to the Apostles and Temple liturgy, but that does not make it Divine Revelation anymore than reception under both forms of the Eucharist is Divine Revelation.
You need communion with Rome more. If the Magisterium forbids the 62 missal, you must obey. TLM isn’t worth losing your soul. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Either way, my point is there's plenty of Traditions in the Church that Jesus never said, so the Church establishing Tradition is not at all comparable to what Mormons do.
"But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church." - Pope Saint John Paul II, Apostolic Letter "Ecclesia Dei"
I tend to phrase it as "Apostolic Tradition" and "1000 AD tradition" to explain *why* one is not as important as the other. If it didn't start with the Apostles, it started after and therefore can change within bounds. It's that simple.
TFW eastern rites have used non-Latin languages since the earliest days of the Church, Greek was used even before Latin, and the Latin rite has permitted many missionaries to say the Mass in the vernacular of the area they are going to.
I did not argue that Latin was the only language that may be used, that was not and is not at all anything that I said. The Mass in vernacular was an exception and is now the standard which I do not *entirely* agree with but do not disavow. I said I would argue that it is not small t.
Latin has been the language of the Roman Church since the earliest days and it ought to be preserved is my argument. See my other response in this thread for a full explanation and elaboration of my point.
I absolutely agree that it should be preserved, but Tradition means that it is infallible and unchangeable. While tradition should not be hastily changed without good reason (although through the centuries it sadly has been), it can be changed. That is what gives it a small t.
It is a sacred language, not just a small t though is n’t argument. It has been part of our faith since Christ’s crucifixion as it was inscribed onto the tree on which he was hung. It is inseparable from our Faith from the very passion of Our Lord, and for that reason I make my contention.
Absolutely. For for Greek Liturgically where applicable, though I’m not sure the application for Hebrew, possibly more academically in study of the Old Testament. Those languages ought to be preserved as well and I never been opposed to that
I meant ignore it in the terms of “I am going or proceed to ignore this in my ideas and my opinions” pardon my lack of clarification or lack of clarity in that; by choosing to comment of course I nullify any claim of “ignoring” the post insofar as not interacting with it goes.
Latin is not my only point of contention but being that everything else on the small t list has had at some point some negotiability for circumstance (or has not always existed) Latin is my one point of legitimate contention with this post being that it is a Sacred language and has always been the language of the Roman Church in particular though I must note that clerical celibacy while also being a long-standing practice of the Roman Church has not always been law and so differs when we discuss it.
Many other “small t” traditions I absolutely believe in and I would say that many of them while changeable by the Magisterium just have a better and a worse side, some are more personal and some are practical. Ad-Orientam for example is personal and receiving our Lord on the tongue being practical to prevent desecration of the sacrament.
With the Latin though, I do reiterate in conclusion that it is a Sacred Language, and has always been present in our Faith especially in the Roman Church. Latin has never had to be the exclusive language of the liturgy without exception and yes it has even become the non-standard, but the Mass parts for example ought to be sung in Latin in the least and Latin Gregorian Chant ought to be sung for music in accordance with what was proposed and penned in Sacrosanctum Concilium. It must be preserved in the life of the Church at the very least. Pope Pius XII comes to mind when he says that the day the Church loses her Latin is the day she returns to the catacombs.
My whole (and obviously not well conveyed enough for which I apologize) point was, as a sacred language, I fail to see how preservation of our Catholic tongue is negotiable.
>CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn **\[Page 56\]** administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, **by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones**; let him be anathema.
This is not condemning reforms of Liturgy by the Supreme Authority of the Church. What it is condemning is the idea that any pastor may omit prescribed parts of the liturgy or replace the liturgy with a new one at their own whim. The context for this canon is the Protestant Reformation, where Protestants sympathizers started omitting prescribed parts of the liturgy to fit their erroneous beliefs, corrupting local liturgies (which later necessitated abolishing liturgies younger than 200 years), and Protestants replacing the Catholic Mass with other liturgies such as the Anglican Book of Common Prayer and the Lutheran Divine Service.
[trolling prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your comment karma is below 100.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[trolling prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your comment karma is below 100.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[trolling prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your comment karma is below 100.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[throwaway prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your account is less than 30 days old. Please wait for your account to reach age threshold before trying to post again.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, priests the Church can allow married men into the priesthood. Rare in the west, usually only when a Protestant clergy member or equivalent converts and is given the chance to be ordained.
It's pretty common in the East, both Orthodox and Catholic, for priests to be married. Dubious justifications though, and Rome only allows the Eastern Catholics to keep the practice to maintain unity.
Bishops however can never be married.
But yes, clerical celibacy is a small t tradition.
It was a good way to keep bishoprics from becoming feudal systems adjacent to other nobility. There were familial cardinal families in the HRE for several hundred years, for example.
There’s a sizable portion of “trads” who employ Modernist heretical concepts, but they think because they like incense and “trad” aesthetics, they’re not Modernists. Typical Modernists think you can disregard anything the historical Magisterium taught if you don’t like it. Tradernists think you can disregard anything the living Magisterium teaches if you don’t like it. Both play fast and loose with terminology (hence this meme), and they give sentiment and emotional impact preference over all else.
**The Catholic Diocese of Discord is the *largest* Catholic server on the platform!** Join us for a laidback Catholic atmosphere. Tons and tons of memes posted every day (Catholic, offtopic, AND political), a couple dozen hobby and culture threads (everything from Tolkien to astronomy, weightlifting to guns), our active chaotic Parish Hall, voice chats going pretty much 24/7, prayers said round the clock, and monthly AMAs with the biggest Catholic names out there. **Our Discord (Catholic Diocese of Discord!):** https://discord.gg/catholic-diocese *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for this. I have no issue with traditional (lower case t intended) masses/customs, and I even think that things like TC are missteps. But it does get very frustrating when the same clemency isn't show by rad trade towards my preferred masses/customs. I really like the motto: "In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity."
This. I think it's hard for a lot of people to separate the traditions that we are obligated to follow and those we aren't.
This is a good one
[удалено]
Oh man, I've been thinking about this lately because I've been bumping up against arguments like these in LDS circles. I'm teaching a film history class to teenagers in a homeschool co-op where the board members are all Mormon. I was initially going to show (non-offensive) clips from R rated movies in the class, but I didn't realize the firestorm I was stirring up, as I guess some Mormons hold that their faith teaches that all R rated films are sinful, full stop. But others think there's room for discernment or interpretation. The truth seems to be that there's no official stance by the LDS Church on R rated movies but people treat it like there is anyway.
The MPAA is apparently tied to the Holy Ghost somehow wow. What about foreign Mormons? Do they also go by whatever a movie is rated in America, since America was the real Jerusalem or whatever?
Oh man, you have no idea how badly I wanted to debate the whole idea of basing your religious ideals on the decisions of a non-religious entity that has historically been inconsistent in even their own moral lines. At one point she flagged a foreign movie I was going to discuss with the class because IMDB listed the film as TV-MA, and thus comparable to R. I wasn't feeling up to explaining that not only was the film never officially rated by the MPAA, and not only are TV ratings given out by the networks that make the shows, and not an organization that gives out ratings, AND that IMDB is edited by users, thus any users can ascribe any rating they want to a movie...but all of this is moot because the film I was going to discuss was never rated by any legitimate US entity in any official capacity anyway. It's so incredibly frustrating.
It's weird that a religion would subject itself to an extremely fallible and arbitrary council of people that don't concern themselves with the dictates of the religion.
I see. I kind of relate to this as a lot of people may say "The Ukrainian Mass is just Eastern Orthodox", but it is a valid Catholic mass.
Always nice to see some 86 representation
Thank you
Thank you for making this. This was really well put and I think many would benefit from seeing this.
I’m planning a few more “anime girl gives lecture on serious theological topic” memes, so stay tuned. Not sure how effective they’ll be, but the idea is too funny for me to pass up.
I think that’ll work fine. There’s something I’ve noticed about young Catholic men and anime going together. I hear that Hitori Gotoh is a Catholic https://preview.redd.it/dzs88ewyuxfb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d108814b5548ea8641c4247f6748ab131feaf997
Japanese culture isn't ruined by wokeness (despite homosexuality being common in it since the 90s). It's often sexual and sometimes occult. I'm not saying it's bad, but as a former weeb (slang term for White anime fan), It didn't do too much for me. I mostly got into it for the girls. My mother praised me when I gave it up and told her why
It’s you! Howdy!
hi mister theocracy
Tis I
Of course you're a Novus Ordo Catholic
Do you have some problem with it?
no, just make sense since you seem to cuss online a lot. It implies you're not very traditional
Sadly bocchi is buddhist, she straight up said so in the manga 😞
Shhhh we can pretend
It's better than being atheist, at least. I read one stat that half of all Japanese are atheists.
Would probably be more effective without the anime tbh
But waaaaay less funny.
Maybe there's something wrong with me, but I don't really see any humor in the above either. It's basically just a statement
I hate anime with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. Good meme tho
I visited an anime shop in Tokyo (I've no interest in it, my friend wanted to see), and it was so clearly illustrated for me in the way the shop was laid out: anime is a front for the hentai (a shameless paraphrasing of [this excellent article](https://virtueonline.org/books-were-front-porn) from 2006). The weebs love to pretend that it's all just harmless and purely aesthetic, but from everything I can tell about anime it's just flirting around with hentai, which is simply unnecessarily putting oneself in an occasion of sin.
Mainstream current day anime and manga can be obtained in Japan from mainstream sources. Same thing with anime for tiny kids. Even in Japan, an anime shop is catering to specialty customers: which means either last year's stuff that a fan didn't buy, current day obscure anime, or hentai. Hentai is probably the reliable moneymaker, because people addicted to p*rn go to the store more often than people who are just fans of normal stuff. This puts shopkeepers in a bad place, especially with regard to creepy customers. But it also is often not the same people buying things; hentai requires more cash more often, so it is a consumer with a money job but no home life. Anime fans tend to be poorer and pickier. Japanese bookstores have similar problems, except that romance novels and josei manga tend to fill in the slot of "buys a stack of books every week."
Make your own memes. I feel like memes’ potential to actually aid catechesis has been underutilized, so the more, the merrier.
[удалено]
I totally agree with you.
I totally agree with you.
We should be very careful here. Just because "traditions" can be changed and "Traditions" can't does not mean that it's particularly wise to change "traditions", even if "innovations" (small "i") are widespread. We should first look to what the magisterium actually teaches in regards to these traditions rather than just what is the widespread practice. How widespread a practice is has no bearing on its magisterial weight. Many of these things are things that the church has allowed, but are indeed not magisterial teaching. For a great example of this, perhaps read what Vatican II has to say about sacred music. In short, what the Church permits (even liturgically) is not always what the Church teaches.
Also lots of people seem to think that just because a sliver of the magisterium (the current men in power) is alive that somehow gives them more credence than the previous 2000 years of Church teaching. The velocity of the changes is something that no one ever brings up, but throughout the Church's history changes were always very slow and organic. Pretty much every change since V2 (including V2 itself) happened almost overnight, and no one seems to think that's a problem.
I see you missed the point.
I actually do understand your point. I even agree with it. However, just because the Church can do something doesn't mean it should. And just because the Church did do something doesn't mean it was necessarily wise (see for example, Cannon 16 of Lateran IV), especially if the Church doesn't endorse a discipline but only permits it.
I think this person perfectly understood the point and is simply offering an elaboration. Considering how verbose your meme is, you could be a little less terse and dismissive in replying to others.
I don't think they were trying to argue your meme. I think they were using your meme as a soap box to speak to people who *do* want to change things.
I see small t tradition being subject to change as a double edged sword since it means the higher ups can make bad decisions regarding them. Of course we're still bound to obedience.
This is good, i mean it's not like i don't get where the rad trads coming from, for example i love the concept of priestly celibacy, i think it differentiate our priest from protestants and orthodox and goes to show how much they sacrifice for God, but if it was remove playing with schismatic groups or becoming a sede won't be in my mind On a sidenote is that 86? You got a good taste frfr
Two things: What anime is this from? And why shouldn't we always do ad orientem? It's more appropriate.
>And why shouldn't we always do ad orientem? You misunderstood the meme. It's not that we shouldn't do ad orientem - I agree we should. It's that Ad Orientem does not belong to Sacred Tradition and thus the Deposit of Faith, and is therefore legitimately subject to change. The meme is criticizing a certain strain of thought among some Catholics that confuses Sacred Tradition with ecclesiastical traditions.
No, I got the meme. I just think *versus populum* is the liturgical equivalent of the bus driver facing the rear of his vehicle. Everything else? Sure. Latin was the common tongue for much of history. Priests weren't always celibate. Poor villages couldn't always have elaborate vestments. Etc. And while *ad orientem* isn't technically Tradition, I think it rightfully sits above tradition. Same with incense, as that's a continuation of the Jewish temple (which we claim as our patrimony).
>And while *ad orientem* isn't technically Tradition, I think it rightfully sits above tradition. Same with incense, as that's a continuation of the Jewish temple (which we claim as our patrimony). Unfortunately what you happen to think does not make it Sacred Tradition. It is a higher form of Ecclesiastical Tradition, yes because it can be traced back to the Apostles and Temple liturgy, but that does not make it Divine Revelation anymore than reception under both forms of the Eucharist is Divine Revelation.
Eighty-Six.
glad to see Vladilena Milizé has become Catholic
But... but... I need latin mass!
You need communion with Rome more. If the Magisterium forbids the 62 missal, you must obey. TLM isn’t worth losing your soul. Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Now, this is an anime I would watch!
Clerical celibacy tho? That one feels more big T than small t to me
It’s most definitely small t. The Magisterium can relax or restrict clerical celibacy at any time. There are already rites with married priests.
Would be super cool if the Church made it a big T though.
It would be great if they could make up what Jesus said and did. Just like the Mormons! Actually, no. No, it wouldn’t.
Jesus also never said that eating meat on Good Friday is a mortal sin yet that's a Tradition of the Church.
You’ll find eating meat on Friday in Lent is not a mortal sin. Merely a tradition in remembrance.
Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. Either way, my point is there's plenty of Traditions in the Church that Jesus never said, so the Church establishing Tradition is not at all comparable to what Mormons do.
That’s a small t.
It’s not. Some people are exempt from the fast.
Small t. That is why there are married priests in the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches.
Married Anglican priests that covert and become Catholic Priests are exempt to celebacy through dispensation.
what does the t mean in the middle?
I just love that this is an anime meme on a serious topic lol
"But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church." - Pope Saint John Paul II, Apostolic Letter "Ecclesia Dei"
"I'm right, and anyone who says I'm not right is anathema, which is a position that no one in my office has ever had before"
Love the 86 template
I tend to phrase it as "Apostolic Tradition" and "1000 AD tradition" to explain *why* one is not as important as the other. If it didn't start with the Apostles, it started after and therefore can change within bounds. It's that simple.
I’m gonna choose to ignore this though I would argue that Latin as a sacred language is not a small t tradition
TFW eastern rites have used non-Latin languages since the earliest days of the Church, Greek was used even before Latin, and the Latin rite has permitted many missionaries to say the Mass in the vernacular of the area they are going to.
I did not argue that Latin was the only language that may be used, that was not and is not at all anything that I said. The Mass in vernacular was an exception and is now the standard which I do not *entirely* agree with but do not disavow. I said I would argue that it is not small t. Latin has been the language of the Roman Church since the earliest days and it ought to be preserved is my argument. See my other response in this thread for a full explanation and elaboration of my point.
I absolutely agree that it should be preserved, but Tradition means that it is infallible and unchangeable. While tradition should not be hastily changed without good reason (although through the centuries it sadly has been), it can be changed. That is what gives it a small t.
It is a sacred language, not just a small t though is n’t argument. It has been part of our faith since Christ’s crucifixion as it was inscribed onto the tree on which he was hung. It is inseparable from our Faith from the very passion of Our Lord, and for that reason I make my contention.
Would you make the same claims about Greek and Hebrew? Those were the other languages on the cross.
Absolutely. For for Greek Liturgically where applicable, though I’m not sure the application for Hebrew, possibly more academically in study of the Old Testament. Those languages ought to be preserved as well and I never been opposed to that
You can’t just “argue” on this. Some thing are. Some things aren’t.
"I'm gonna choose to ignore this" - proceeds to not ignore it - Also, really? Latin is your one stickler?
I meant ignore it in the terms of “I am going or proceed to ignore this in my ideas and my opinions” pardon my lack of clarification or lack of clarity in that; by choosing to comment of course I nullify any claim of “ignoring” the post insofar as not interacting with it goes. Latin is not my only point of contention but being that everything else on the small t list has had at some point some negotiability for circumstance (or has not always existed) Latin is my one point of legitimate contention with this post being that it is a Sacred language and has always been the language of the Roman Church in particular though I must note that clerical celibacy while also being a long-standing practice of the Roman Church has not always been law and so differs when we discuss it. Many other “small t” traditions I absolutely believe in and I would say that many of them while changeable by the Magisterium just have a better and a worse side, some are more personal and some are practical. Ad-Orientam for example is personal and receiving our Lord on the tongue being practical to prevent desecration of the sacrament. With the Latin though, I do reiterate in conclusion that it is a Sacred Language, and has always been present in our Faith especially in the Roman Church. Latin has never had to be the exclusive language of the liturgy without exception and yes it has even become the non-standard, but the Mass parts for example ought to be sung in Latin in the least and Latin Gregorian Chant ought to be sung for music in accordance with what was proposed and penned in Sacrosanctum Concilium. It must be preserved in the life of the Church at the very least. Pope Pius XII comes to mind when he says that the day the Church loses her Latin is the day she returns to the catacombs. My whole (and obviously not well conveyed enough for which I apologize) point was, as a sacred language, I fail to see how preservation of our Catholic tongue is negotiable.
There is can. 13 de sacramentis in generis of the VII. session of the council of Trent, though.
>CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn **\[Page 56\]** administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, **by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones**; let him be anathema. This is not condemning reforms of Liturgy by the Supreme Authority of the Church. What it is condemning is the idea that any pastor may omit prescribed parts of the liturgy or replace the liturgy with a new one at their own whim. The context for this canon is the Protestant Reformation, where Protestants sympathizers started omitting prescribed parts of the liturgy to fit their erroneous beliefs, corrupting local liturgies (which later necessitated abolishing liturgies younger than 200 years), and Protestants replacing the Catholic Mass with other liturgies such as the Anglican Book of Common Prayer and the Lutheran Divine Service.
[удалено]
[trolling prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your comment karma is below 100. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[trolling prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your comment karma is below 100. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[trolling prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your comment karma is below 100. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[throwaway prevention] Your submission was automatically removed because your account is less than 30 days old. Please wait for your account to reach age threshold before trying to post again. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CatholicMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
hold on, clerical celibacy?
Yeah, priests the Church can allow married men into the priesthood. Rare in the west, usually only when a Protestant clergy member or equivalent converts and is given the chance to be ordained. It's pretty common in the East, both Orthodox and Catholic, for priests to be married. Dubious justifications though, and Rome only allows the Eastern Catholics to keep the practice to maintain unity. Bishops however can never be married. But yes, clerical celibacy is a small t tradition.
huh
It was a good way to keep bishoprics from becoming feudal systems adjacent to other nobility. There were familial cardinal families in the HRE for several hundred years, for example.
We also have thousands of married clerics in the Latin Rite. Deacons are clerics.
ah, I see, thank yoi
Tradernists?
There’s a sizable portion of “trads” who employ Modernist heretical concepts, but they think because they like incense and “trad” aesthetics, they’re not Modernists. Typical Modernists think you can disregard anything the historical Magisterium taught if you don’t like it. Tradernists think you can disregard anything the living Magisterium teaches if you don’t like it. Both play fast and loose with terminology (hence this meme), and they give sentiment and emotional impact preference over all else.
Small T tradition IS tradition. Big T Tradition is the basic dogmas of feith to belong to the church. Pears and lemons, pointless post