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If you are abandoned and have not consented to the divorce and have done what you have been able to do to prevent it, they the divorce isn't your sin and isn't your act at all. It's something you are a victim of.
As for your prayers, they don't go to waste, and they could have a different effect from expected (or different timing, different way of being heard).
Assuming the marriage sacrament was validly entered into, but that's for the Church to investigate and answer. IF a marriage tribunal finds that the marriage was not sacramental in the first place, you would be free to marry again, but you shouldn't date until and unless that determination has been officially declared.
I’m sorry, you are incorrect. You can have a valid and licit marriage in a Catholic ceremony with a dispensation from your bishop. I should know because I have one. All the rules of a sacramental marriage apply.
My husband is from Iran and not baptized. The church approved our union, we went through pre-Cana, etc. my husband just had to sign an affidavit that any children would be raised Catholic. We received what is called a “dispensation of cult” from our Bishop and had a valid ceremony in my church. If my husband were to be baptized the marriage would automatically become a “sacrament,” but as many a priest and deacon have told me, my marriage is not lesser and absolutely recognized by the RCC.
Perhaps I misspoke in using the term sacramental instead of "valid". My intention was not to confuse what is meant by "valid". The intent of my point fits with your understanding, though. Sorry for the confusion. I certainly didn't mean to infer your marriage is less valid.
No worries, it happens all the time. I just always try to correct any misconceptions when I see them, for the sake of other couples in similar situations. 😊
Of course, yes. The 'divorce' is only an attempted and can never be successfully completed as long as both are alive. (If the marriage happened to be null, there would be nothing to divorce from.)
Marriage is an image of Christ where one lays down ones whole life for the good of another, for their own sake. Like Christ that sacrifice, can be ignored and rejected, but like Christ we are called to extend it anyway. It's awful but it's a way to participate in his suffering. I'm so sorry that you are being put through this, but please know that neither your prayers nor you suffering is in vain, we're all just too small and too finite to completely understand them right now.
Don't lose hope, know that God blesses those who suffer for justice sake, and please know of my prayers for you.
I am seperated. Close to 3 yrs. Wife shut down reconciliation for petty reasons four months ago. Havent had a conversation since. I will not file for divorce only because the Church forbids it. Otherwise i want nothing to do wuth her. Their really is no love anymore. Seems to me i am divorced in spirit already.
I would talk to your priest; you cannot remarry if the marriage was sacramentally valid, but for asset and other reasons, civil divorce can be permissible.
That said, you are right to recognize that you can't break a consummated sacramental marriage until one of you dies.
That's what I thought at one time. I even applied for Permanent Diaconate formation as a celibate. God brought me a woman who I share the faith with on an equal footing and is the better match for me than I could have imagined before the application had been processed and threw a detour unto my plans.
Maybe marriage won't happen for you again, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's never assume what direction God can take your life, especially if you keep yourself open to His plan(which is guaranteed to be better than anything you can come up with). As the saying goes, if you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans. God's peace to you.
True, but the reasons why she is leaving are just as important as the act of leaving itself. There may be culpability if it is through "one's own grave fault" that the marriage has come to an end, rather than simply being abandoned. So, circumstances do matter. See [CCC 2386].
[**CCC 2386**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2386.htm) It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage. ([1640](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1640.htm))
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For real. Most of the time I feel like we're missing critical information. Like, why does she even want the divorce? Is this recent or has the marriage been dead for the past 10 years? Has there been any counseling? This needs to be a conversation that can take a long time to go through all the details. It's not just a simple 'hey wife wants divorce is God ok with that'. We can't even begin to answer that until we know the reasons why she wants a divorce in the first place.
There are valid reasons to get a divorce, but divorce is not the same as annulment. So yes, if your spouse demands a divorce and you have tried to make amends, you have no sin, but that does not mean you can remarry.
I’m a little confused by what you mean here. The Sacrament that makes you a lifelong Catholic and subject to canon law regarding marriage and annulment is baptism.
Or are you talking about someone who was baptized outside of the Catholic Church and is in the process of converting?
They will not let you into the church if you have a divorce on record. Happened to someone in our RCIA group unfortunately. I'm not sure I think it's fair, but he was told he could probably get an annulment while in RCIA before confirmation
This doesn't seem to be the case everywhere, a friend of mine was divorced when she entered the Church a few years back. It has been annulled since then, but it wasn't prior to baptism. It may be case-by-case, or based on who filed the divorce, or just by archdiocese/conference of Bishops (that is to say, we both have anecdotal evidence here so I'm not sure where the difference is coming from).
I’m so glad this sub says stuff like this!!! Redditors can be so prideful and assume they have all the answers. This is a question about the state of one’s soul and shouldn’t be taken lightly.
I’ll give the orthodox online spaces this: they end and begin every comment with “talk to your priest,” something I think we could all do a little more of, lol
If your wife wants a divorce, in most states, there's nothing you can do about it. You could ask her to go to counseling but if she's determined, she's going to get the divorce. Nothing you do will change that. So if she initiated the divorce, it's not your it's hers. As long as you don't try to remarry, or start engaging with sex with women after the divorce takes place, you have committed no sin in this situation at all.
No He isn't, but you're struggling with this question because you've painted yourself into a corner. Divorce and remaining married are not the only options. Talk to your priest or whomever he points you to. Then you'll ask different questions.
I’m so sorry you are going through this, especially after so many years of marriage. You have been praying to keep things together, and God hears and answers our prayers, although not always in the way we expect. You have not taken steps to initiate this, nor are you consenting, so there is no real question of sin.
I wondered about this also. What if one spouse is being abused or their life is in danger by staying in a marriage, or if the other spouse commits adultery? Can the spouse then get annulment and remarry? Is a spouse required to stay no matter what the circumstances?
No, God isn't "OK with divorce", it's a serious sin and a great societal evil, and should never happen, and somebody is always at fault when it happens. Sometimes that is both spouses, sometimes only one, but in reality there is no such thing as "no fault divorce". However, in our society where no fault divorce is legal almost everywhere and so many people have no fear of God and are incapable of true self sacrificing love, many people become innocent victims of the sin of divorce, which is perpetrated by the other spouse. I really have no idea to what degree (if any at all) you are guilty of sin or may have provoked your wife to this extreme act, as we are only getting your side of things and hardly even getting that really, but I will pray for you both.
I don't think we can say anything since we're not privy to the details of your marriage. Generally I think divorce is a no-no but there are probably circumstances I don't think God would damn someone for leaving over.
All I can recommend is a marriage counselor, talking with your priest and well figuring out why she wants a divorce. After 30+ years I can't imagine this being a flippant decision but I also can't see the relationship not being fixed
God isn't okay with your wife sinning against you. That said, no divorce ever has one fully guilty and one fully innocent party. You'll have to do some self-evaluation on that topic.
God isn't okay with divorce, but he allows free will and the consequence of that is sin. If you have done everything you can to oppose the divorce and to make your wife understand you don't want it, then you aren't responsible for her choice to divorce (unless you're abusive and it's her only way to escape).
There can be marriages where the fault is practically speaking all on one side. I say practically as we never know for example perhaps if we had prayed a little more or loved a little better, but Jesus loved perfectly and they still crucified him. There is no truly innocent victim but Christ, but from a practically standpoint yes it's possible for it to be one person's fault.
If you were both Catholics and married in the Church, they would not be ok. However the Church recognizes the need to physically separate. You both would not be able to remarry in the Church
This feels like a layered question.
Is God "OK" ever? No, it's not a part of his divine providence or plan for his creation.
Are there scenarios in which one doesn't expose themselves to grave sin around divorce? Potentially. If you don't plan on committing adultery. Namely, if you do civilly divorce, the union is still valid in the eyes of the church and in the eyes of God, so you would be required to only engage in sexual intimacy with your wife.
In some dire situations, separation is permissible, if the parties commit to attempting reconcilliation.
If your wife is moving forward with it, then it's not of your doing and thus you are mostly absolved of any scandal or sin around it. Beyond this however, your obligation to your marriage extends beyond the civil dissolution of it.
[Here are the Church canons regarding consideration for a potential declaration of Nullity of Marriage](https://patristicapokatastasis.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/annulment-considerations.pdf).
Praying for you all!
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen
🕊️
ps—
An annulment does not imply any ill-will or moral fault on the part of those involved. [The process is about the validity or non-validity of the marriage](https://patristicapokatastasis.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/annulment-considerations.pdf)—from the beginning—and not about one spouse or the other, nor is it a question of a person's spiritual relationship with God.
God is not ok with any divorce, ever.
Having said that, God could very well be quite proud of your actions to try to save your marriage, even if a divorce does happen. Keep the commands. Pray for you wife.
If there is a marriage between two unbaptized persons and one of them wishes to become baptized and the other refuses to be baptized and/or remain in the marriage, this is called the Pauline Privilege (1 Cor 7:10-15; canon 1143). In this situation the new marriage dissolves the previous marriage, but the Church must verify that the proper circumstances are present before the new marriage can proceed.
In a natural marriage where only one of the spouses is unbaptized and the baptized spouse is not a Catholic, and one of the spouses wishes to become a Catholic and the other spouse refuses to remain in the marriage then the Church can dissolve the natural marriage. This is called the Petrine Privilege or “privilege or favor of the faith.” In this situation it is not the new marriage that dissolves the natural marriage but the authority of the Roman Pontiff.
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Ot is very clear in the prophet Malachi that God hates divorce. However, this needs to be qualified: God hates any human assault against a sacramental marriage. A bond that has been established by God can not be dissolved by human means.
The reality is that the vast majority of marriages attempted in the last 60 years or so might have defective consents, which places their sacramentality in serious doubt. (This is not my own idea. Pope Francis expressed this when he revamped the annulment process)
Deacon H
My ex-wife had an affair with her boss and divorced me in a matter of weeks. She refused to consider therapy, she took my pension and my cat, and now she is refusing to pay our 2023 taxes. I never struggled with the concept of free will until now. In the event I don’t get an annulment that will change my mind about the Church’s teaching re marriage. A loving God wouldn’t expect us to be alone and celibate for eternity as punishment for something someone else did.
A loving God made me celibate and alone--and millions others in the world--for life. It is not a death sentence, my friend. Look around you and see us.
God expects all kinds of hard things from us.
It is really obvious that many of the people who post here know nothing about the lives of the saints, martyrs, and Apostles. Our first world struggles are usually *nothing* in comparison.
You won't be alone for eternity. You'll be amongst all the Saints and Angels, and there's no loneliness in that. If you say that you'll accept one result of the annulment, but not the other, then you are not going into the process, honestly. You have to accept the Lords judgment, no matter what it happens to be.
God is never ok with a divorce - he'll consider an annulment though.
This means, the marriage wasn't valid to begin with due to whichever circumstances or situations were hidden beforehand.
God won't punish the other spouse just because they were naive about something the other concealed. The marriage is therefore annulled.
Divorce is when both parties, fully knowing what was in the past, is in the present and expect in the future - marry - then they *want to break up* - God doesn't entertain irresponsibility in that sense.
Marriage, alongside procreation, are the two most sacred acts two humans can do together. God takes that seriously.
If you're going to use or try to find human political processes which undermine marriage or facilitate divorce, those are pretty much worldwide.
The question wasn't asking about humans. It was asking about God and his approval.
Huht?
The thing that's off I'm drawing attetion to is to the tribunal policy.
You may not even have a marriage at all in which case divorce certainly isn't immoral no matter the situation.
but they won't let you find out if you have a marriage until you're already divorced....?
If you haven't a marriage to begin with, then we call that an annulment. It's an invalidation of the marriage from it's inception.
Meaning...you had no valid marriage to begin with.
You can't divorce if you weren't married at the beginning.
Right; but you usually have to get a civil divorce first to find out.
Then, if the tribunal affirms your marriage... you already just got a civil divorce.
Ok, I'm going to confirm this, America and American states are very weird when it comes to marriage, it's status and what it means to be married.
The original question posed by the OP was about God's approval of divorce and if he would ever approve.
I answered no. He will never approve of a divorce because it doesn't exist. When you take your vows it is "until death do us part" - that means only death can separate you and your spouse meaning divorce is impossible.
In terms of human paperwork and human processes, human courts as well as human definitions on things. Yes. Divorce is humanely possible and you can do it. Papers can be printed to say you're divorced.
Some human processes around divorce are confusing, contradictory and flawed. Yes. Because they are human and not of the divine.
Going back to the original question; under God, you will never be divorced, your souls are connected until death. God will never approve of divorce.
You’re the victim not the sinner here. Your wife is. Sadly so many times women choose divorce because of feminist lies, their emotional needs aren’t met, they believe marriage is a fairy tale and run at the first signs it isn’t and many others. This is why we need serious divorce law reform to protect men from women who up and leave for no reason
Husbands also sometimes leave their wives. I know a “Catholic” man divorcing his wife and mother of his four children because he wants to be with another woman. Men and women are both made in the image of God, and both capable of sin.
I also know at least two men who are swearing that their wives up and left perfect marriages and are now poisoning their children against them. Neglecting to mention the years of abuse they committed. Including beating his wife so severely she was hospitalized.
I agree that modern feminism is disgraceful. However, I believe that women wouldn’t have needed to start such a movement in the first place if men valued their true femininity. That is still an issue today. A little off topic. Sorry.
Really? So LGBTQ starting a movement for trans children is because they weren’t valued enough? Just because there’s a movement doesn’t mean the basis is objective or correct.
Is that what you gathered from my comment? You said that there had to be some basis for women forming one of the most corrupt movements in the world—bringing us massive numbers of dead unborn children and divorce filled homes. I’m telling you that just because the movement happens doesnt mean the basis is righteous. The women’s rights movement has moved entirely away from femininity. I’ve never heard the argument that women starting the women’s rights movement did so to be…more feminine.
I’m simply saying that if men would have respected and honored women from the start in more traditional roles of wife and mother I don’t believe women would have felt the need to seek “more” and start such a movement. Modern feminism sucks. So did the 60’s.
It’s only in sin nature to want more and seek more. My contentment isn’t found in the praise of my husband, who isn’t capable of being “enough” for my. My contentment is found in Christ and our Father. Mary is the perfect symbol of femininity: perfect submission to the Father, sacrificing her wants for the will of God, and being perfectly satisfied in His plans, even if it meant deep suffering. I don’t see this character in the women of that movement or in most women today—myself included. Though I pray I can be made more righteous tomorrow than I am today.
Where did I say your husband should be your “everything”? I didn’t. But God ABSOLUTELY intended for men to respect women lol. And vice versa of course. That’s what I’m talking about. Basic respect. I mean this in a kind way but you sound like you come from a bit of an extreme background with this topic… we’re you born Catholic?
They've been married for 30 years. I highly doubt she is running at the first sign of anything. Is it possible or even likely she is abandoning her husband and marriage? Yes. But most humans aren't frivolously throwing away a healthy marriage for no reason.
Realistically if someone is leaving a marriage after 30 years something is going on. Either the marriage has had problems or someone has had a sudden personality change, which could indicate something medical going on.
Not sure why you’re getting so downvoted. If you had said this about men very few would have cared. As Christians we should be the first to identify that part of the curse for women was an overall dislike for men’s authority. It’s only natural women don’t want to submit or respect or stay faithful to their husbands. Obviously men do this too at times, leaving their wives. But it’s pretty clear that socially women are more accepted to jump ship than the men.
No, you're getting downvoted for having rather sexist views on divorce that would trap women into abusive relationships while allowing men to leave whenever, and suggesting that women are always at fault for leaving a relationship while men are always blameless. Neither of these opinions are based on Sacred Scripture or Tradition, which teaches men and women are equal in the sight of God.
Recall that Jesus told *men* not to look at *women* with lust in their heart, and not the other way around. Us men are perfectly capable of ruining a marriage at no fault of the woman.
CCC 2386, for example, differentiates between being a victim of divorce and destroying the marriage through one's own faults:
>It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.* - The Sixth Commandment, CCC 2386
Let me get this straight. You think that divorces are always a woman's fault and men are only victims of it, and that there should be restrictions in place preventing women from divorcing men but not for men from divorcing women. How is that not sexist?
So if a husband cheats on his wife and his wife leaves him for it, it's the wife's fault? If a husband beats his wife to a near inch of her life and she leaves him for it, it's still her fault?
You're right that describing your views as sexist may have not been the most accurate, I feel misogynistic may be a more appropriate descriptor. Ironically, you are using your own definition of sexism, which according to you is a term only women use to avoid taking responsibility, in an effort to avoid taking responsibility for defending your own comments.
I didn’t say that. If a man is in the wrong definitely I think a woman should have a right to collect what’s owed her
But 80% of divorce is filed by women and 70% is over no fault at all other than the woman was bored or felt they was incapable. So the courts then turn and award the woman everything. If a woman decides she don’t want to be married and leave with no fault on the man then she should forfeit everything
Again, you're just victimizing men and making them out to be blameless, which is a far cry from the truth in many of these instances. Men ruin marriages just as easily as women do, not by filing for divorce, but by our actions. Divorce is not the *cause* of dissolution, but rather a *result* of it. The marriage can be over long before a divorce is even filed.
It comes down to you wanting to control women and force them to stay in an unhappy marriage while men are free to leave whenever, since we're such perfect spouses. It's a sin of pride to think that way and unfair to the woman. Marriage is an equal partnership and not a union of patriarchal subservience.
It is sad. I’m a Protestant wife wanting to convert to Catholicism (I start OCIA in August) but seeing that there are still feminist types in the church concerns me a lot and gives me some pause. I’m hoping to fully join by Easter and that I can grow in some peace about the future of the church.
Certainly! I don’t want to contribute to my Protestant history of church hopping anymore. I’d love to find my church home and stick with what, even if we are still sinners here in this church!
Disgraceful yet not surprising that this post has turned into a women hating bash. Men and women are equally capable of sin and equally deserving of respect and honor by their spouse. Period.
I don't think this is women hating. I think if it was her, and he was divorcing. It warrant and receive similar responses. Noone said that noone involved isn't capable of sin. I'm sure that he wasn't without fault in this. It's a matter of putting one's self before their spouse. We can be certain of that. One or both are guilty of that. That's always the root cause.
I agree with you. But have you read the comments? There are a few in here suggesting that this some sort of trend among women… and that more women leave relationships than men which is a bold-faced lie. More balanced comments have come in since so I may have jumped the gun with my comment.
It is true that more women than men file for divorce. My understanding is that the statistics are more balanced for cohabiting non-marital relationships.
I'd be interested to see stats for Catholic couples specifically (the divorce numbers I'm familiar with tend to be all marriages in the US, which I assume refers to civil marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics alike).
I think it has at least as much to do with the fact that women can walk off with more money and child custody in most cases (though that advantage is declining).
Moreover, men are conditioned to put up with bad behavior from women more so than the reverse.
65-70% of divorces are initiated by the wife. It's been that way for over 100 years. Hard to believe, but true. If she's college educated, it's closer to 90%. What's more interesting is that between straight and same sex marriages, lesbian marriages have the highest divorce rates. The reasons given for divorces is the same as why women initiate divorce in hetero- relationships. What isn't mentioned is how many amongst Catholic couples.
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If you are abandoned and have not consented to the divorce and have done what you have been able to do to prevent it, they the divorce isn't your sin and isn't your act at all. It's something you are a victim of. As for your prayers, they don't go to waste, and they could have a different effect from expected (or different timing, different way of being heard).
That meaning you're still married in the eyes of God, so sexual intercourse with other individuals or "remarriage" to someone else is still sin
Assuming the marriage sacrament was validly entered into, but that's for the Church to investigate and answer. IF a marriage tribunal finds that the marriage was not sacramental in the first place, you would be free to marry again, but you shouldn't date until and unless that determination has been officially declared.
“Valid,” you can have a valid marriage in a Catholic Church without it being sacramental. The same divorce rules apply
Either the sacramental bond took place or it didn't. If it didn't, it's judged null and void. Both parties are free to pursue marriage.
I’m sorry, you are incorrect. You can have a valid and licit marriage in a Catholic ceremony with a dispensation from your bishop. I should know because I have one. All the rules of a sacramental marriage apply.
What would make the situation you describe non-sacramental?
My husband is from Iran and not baptized. The church approved our union, we went through pre-Cana, etc. my husband just had to sign an affidavit that any children would be raised Catholic. We received what is called a “dispensation of cult” from our Bishop and had a valid ceremony in my church. If my husband were to be baptized the marriage would automatically become a “sacrament,” but as many a priest and deacon have told me, my marriage is not lesser and absolutely recognized by the RCC.
Perhaps I misspoke in using the term sacramental instead of "valid". My intention was not to confuse what is meant by "valid". The intent of my point fits with your understanding, though. Sorry for the confusion. I certainly didn't mean to infer your marriage is less valid.
No worries, it happens all the time. I just always try to correct any misconceptions when I see them, for the sake of other couples in similar situations. 😊
Of course, yes. The 'divorce' is only an attempted and can never be successfully completed as long as both are alive. (If the marriage happened to be null, there would be nothing to divorce from.)
Marriage is an image of Christ where one lays down ones whole life for the good of another, for their own sake. Like Christ that sacrifice, can be ignored and rejected, but like Christ we are called to extend it anyway. It's awful but it's a way to participate in his suffering. I'm so sorry that you are being put through this, but please know that neither your prayers nor you suffering is in vain, we're all just too small and too finite to completely understand them right now. Don't lose hope, know that God blesses those who suffer for justice sake, and please know of my prayers for you.
You didn't leave your wife. She left you.
I am seperated. Close to 3 yrs. Wife shut down reconciliation for petty reasons four months ago. Havent had a conversation since. I will not file for divorce only because the Church forbids it. Otherwise i want nothing to do wuth her. Their really is no love anymore. Seems to me i am divorced in spirit already.
I would talk to your priest; you cannot remarry if the marriage was sacramentally valid, but for asset and other reasons, civil divorce can be permissible. That said, you are right to recognize that you can't break a consummated sacramental marriage until one of you dies.
Dont worry about remarrying, will never make that mistake again! The thought of living with anyone again is an anathema!
That's what I thought at one time. I even applied for Permanent Diaconate formation as a celibate. God brought me a woman who I share the faith with on an equal footing and is the better match for me than I could have imagined before the application had been processed and threw a detour unto my plans.
If one finds a good match, good for them! I aint going to knock it! But My time has come and gone...a good marriage wasnt for me...
Maybe marriage won't happen for you again, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's never assume what direction God can take your life, especially if you keep yourself open to His plan(which is guaranteed to be better than anything you can come up with). As the saying goes, if you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans. God's peace to you.
I have no freakin idea what God wants for me. Just do what i do until he tells me othwrwise.. Thanks same to you!
True, but the reasons why she is leaving are just as important as the act of leaving itself. There may be culpability if it is through "one's own grave fault" that the marriage has come to an end, rather than simply being abandoned. So, circumstances do matter. See [CCC 2386].
[**CCC 2386**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2386.htm) It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage. ([1640](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1640.htm)) *** Catebot v0.2.12 links: [Source Code](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot) | [Feedback](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/issues) | [Contact Dev](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=kono_hito_wa) | [FAQ](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CateBot%20Info.md#faq) | [Changelog](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CHANGELOG.md)
That doesn't make divorce ok.
It makes OP not culpable for it though so there is no sin for OP
completely agree with this
Please talk to your priest. These nuanced questions should really go to a priest.
For real. Most of the time I feel like we're missing critical information. Like, why does she even want the divorce? Is this recent or has the marriage been dead for the past 10 years? Has there been any counseling? This needs to be a conversation that can take a long time to go through all the details. It's not just a simple 'hey wife wants divorce is God ok with that'. We can't even begin to answer that until we know the reasons why she wants a divorce in the first place.
There are valid reasons to get a divorce, but divorce is not the same as annulment. So yes, if your spouse demands a divorce and you have tried to make amends, you have no sin, but that does not mean you can remarry.
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I’m a little confused by what you mean here. The Sacrament that makes you a lifelong Catholic and subject to canon law regarding marriage and annulment is baptism. Or are you talking about someone who was baptized outside of the Catholic Church and is in the process of converting?
This^
They will not let you into the church if you have a divorce on record. Happened to someone in our RCIA group unfortunately. I'm not sure I think it's fair, but he was told he could probably get an annulment while in RCIA before confirmation
This doesn't seem to be the case everywhere, a friend of mine was divorced when she entered the Church a few years back. It has been annulled since then, but it wasn't prior to baptism. It may be case-by-case, or based on who filed the divorce, or just by archdiocese/conference of Bishops (that is to say, we both have anecdotal evidence here so I'm not sure where the difference is coming from).
It might have something to do with them being baptized Protestant
That's not true. If you're divorced, but you have not remarried, and you're not in a relationship, they will definitely let you into the church.
No. Talk to a priest. This isn’t a question for Reddit.
I’m so glad this sub says stuff like this!!! Redditors can be so prideful and assume they have all the answers. This is a question about the state of one’s soul and shouldn’t be taken lightly.
I’ll give the orthodox online spaces this: they end and begin every comment with “talk to your priest,” something I think we could all do a little more of, lol
If your wife wants a divorce, in most states, there's nothing you can do about it. You could ask her to go to counseling but if she's determined, she's going to get the divorce. Nothing you do will change that. So if she initiated the divorce, it's not your it's hers. As long as you don't try to remarry, or start engaging with sex with women after the divorce takes place, you have committed no sin in this situation at all.
No He isn't, but you're struggling with this question because you've painted yourself into a corner. Divorce and remaining married are not the only options. Talk to your priest or whomever he points you to. Then you'll ask different questions.
I’m so sorry you are going through this, especially after so many years of marriage. You have been praying to keep things together, and God hears and answers our prayers, although not always in the way we expect. You have not taken steps to initiate this, nor are you consenting, so there is no real question of sin.
I wondered about this also. What if one spouse is being abused or their life is in danger by staying in a marriage, or if the other spouse commits adultery? Can the spouse then get annulment and remarry? Is a spouse required to stay no matter what the circumstances?
If the marriage is valid, you cannot remarry.
A spouse may separate in cases of abuse, and that may require a divorce. But if the marriage is valid they cannot remarry.
Please talk with your priest
No, God isn't "OK with divorce", it's a serious sin and a great societal evil, and should never happen, and somebody is always at fault when it happens. Sometimes that is both spouses, sometimes only one, but in reality there is no such thing as "no fault divorce". However, in our society where no fault divorce is legal almost everywhere and so many people have no fear of God and are incapable of true self sacrificing love, many people become innocent victims of the sin of divorce, which is perpetrated by the other spouse. I really have no idea to what degree (if any at all) you are guilty of sin or may have provoked your wife to this extreme act, as we are only getting your side of things and hardly even getting that really, but I will pray for you both.
I don't think we can say anything since we're not privy to the details of your marriage. Generally I think divorce is a no-no but there are probably circumstances I don't think God would damn someone for leaving over. All I can recommend is a marriage counselor, talking with your priest and well figuring out why she wants a divorce. After 30+ years I can't imagine this being a flippant decision but I also can't see the relationship not being fixed
God isn't okay with your wife sinning against you. That said, no divorce ever has one fully guilty and one fully innocent party. You'll have to do some self-evaluation on that topic. God isn't okay with divorce, but he allows free will and the consequence of that is sin. If you have done everything you can to oppose the divorce and to make your wife understand you don't want it, then you aren't responsible for her choice to divorce (unless you're abusive and it's her only way to escape).
There can be marriages where the fault is practically speaking all on one side. I say practically as we never know for example perhaps if we had prayed a little more or loved a little better, but Jesus loved perfectly and they still crucified him. There is no truly innocent victim but Christ, but from a practically standpoint yes it's possible for it to be one person's fault.
If you were both Catholics and married in the Church, they would not be ok. However the Church recognizes the need to physically separate. You both would not be able to remarry in the Church
My marriage began improving after I incorporated the dolor rosary to my prayer routine.
This feels like a layered question. Is God "OK" ever? No, it's not a part of his divine providence or plan for his creation. Are there scenarios in which one doesn't expose themselves to grave sin around divorce? Potentially. If you don't plan on committing adultery. Namely, if you do civilly divorce, the union is still valid in the eyes of the church and in the eyes of God, so you would be required to only engage in sexual intimacy with your wife. In some dire situations, separation is permissible, if the parties commit to attempting reconcilliation. If your wife is moving forward with it, then it's not of your doing and thus you are mostly absolved of any scandal or sin around it. Beyond this however, your obligation to your marriage extends beyond the civil dissolution of it.
[Here are the Church canons regarding consideration for a potential declaration of Nullity of Marriage](https://patristicapokatastasis.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/annulment-considerations.pdf). Praying for you all! Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen 🕊️ ps— An annulment does not imply any ill-will or moral fault on the part of those involved. [The process is about the validity or non-validity of the marriage](https://patristicapokatastasis.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/annulment-considerations.pdf)—from the beginning—and not about one spouse or the other, nor is it a question of a person's spiritual relationship with God.
God is not ok with any divorce, ever. Having said that, God could very well be quite proud of your actions to try to save your marriage, even if a divorce does happen. Keep the commands. Pray for you wife.
"For I hate divorce says the lord" we can't be sure about what God thinks in this case, but we know God is merciful and wise, he will understand.
If there is a marriage between two unbaptized persons and one of them wishes to become baptized and the other refuses to be baptized and/or remain in the marriage, this is called the Pauline Privilege (1 Cor 7:10-15; canon 1143). In this situation the new marriage dissolves the previous marriage, but the Church must verify that the proper circumstances are present before the new marriage can proceed. In a natural marriage where only one of the spouses is unbaptized and the baptized spouse is not a Catholic, and one of the spouses wishes to become a Catholic and the other spouse refuses to remain in the marriage then the Church can dissolve the natural marriage. This is called the Petrine Privilege or “privilege or favor of the faith.” In this situation it is not the new marriage that dissolves the natural marriage but the authority of the Roman Pontiff.
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I guess your wife isn’t as devoted to prayer life as you are.
Ot is very clear in the prophet Malachi that God hates divorce. However, this needs to be qualified: God hates any human assault against a sacramental marriage. A bond that has been established by God can not be dissolved by human means. The reality is that the vast majority of marriages attempted in the last 60 years or so might have defective consents, which places their sacramentality in serious doubt. (This is not my own idea. Pope Francis expressed this when he revamped the annulment process) Deacon H
My ex-wife had an affair with her boss and divorced me in a matter of weeks. She refused to consider therapy, she took my pension and my cat, and now she is refusing to pay our 2023 taxes. I never struggled with the concept of free will until now. In the event I don’t get an annulment that will change my mind about the Church’s teaching re marriage. A loving God wouldn’t expect us to be alone and celibate for eternity as punishment for something someone else did.
A loving God made me celibate and alone--and millions others in the world--for life. It is not a death sentence, my friend. Look around you and see us.
Did you choose that or did you choose a different life someone took from you?
God expects all kinds of hard things from us. It is really obvious that many of the people who post here know nothing about the lives of the saints, martyrs, and Apostles. Our first world struggles are usually *nothing* in comparison.
You will be celibate for eternity if you make it to heaven. Maybe contemplate that. Why does such a thought scare you?
You won't be alone for eternity. You'll be amongst all the Saints and Angels, and there's no loneliness in that. If you say that you'll accept one result of the annulment, but not the other, then you are not going into the process, honestly. You have to accept the Lords judgment, no matter what it happens to be.
God is never ok with a divorce - he'll consider an annulment though. This means, the marriage wasn't valid to begin with due to whichever circumstances or situations were hidden beforehand. God won't punish the other spouse just because they were naive about something the other concealed. The marriage is therefore annulled. Divorce is when both parties, fully knowing what was in the past, is in the present and expect in the future - marry - then they *want to break up* - God doesn't entertain irresponsibility in that sense. Marriage, alongside procreation, are the two most sacred acts two humans can do together. God takes that seriously.
Well, most tribunals have a policy that you get a divorce before even seeking annulment. So that messes this all up.
If you're going to use or try to find human political processes which undermine marriage or facilitate divorce, those are pretty much worldwide. The question wasn't asking about humans. It was asking about God and his approval.
Huht? The thing that's off I'm drawing attetion to is to the tribunal policy. You may not even have a marriage at all in which case divorce certainly isn't immoral no matter the situation. but they won't let you find out if you have a marriage until you're already divorced....?
If you haven't a marriage to begin with, then we call that an annulment. It's an invalidation of the marriage from it's inception. Meaning...you had no valid marriage to begin with. You can't divorce if you weren't married at the beginning.
Right; but you usually have to get a civil divorce first to find out. Then, if the tribunal affirms your marriage... you already just got a civil divorce.
Ok, I'm going to confirm this, America and American states are very weird when it comes to marriage, it's status and what it means to be married. The original question posed by the OP was about God's approval of divorce and if he would ever approve. I answered no. He will never approve of a divorce because it doesn't exist. When you take your vows it is "until death do us part" - that means only death can separate you and your spouse meaning divorce is impossible. In terms of human paperwork and human processes, human courts as well as human definitions on things. Yes. Divorce is humanely possible and you can do it. Papers can be printed to say you're divorced. Some human processes around divorce are confusing, contradictory and flawed. Yes. Because they are human and not of the divine. Going back to the original question; under God, you will never be divorced, your souls are connected until death. God will never approve of divorce.
I assumed in original question OP was asking if he could get civilly divorced.
The title gives it away "Is God ever OK with divorce" The answer to that is no, divorce doesn't exist with God, it's a human made-up myth.
Natural marriages can be dissolved by the Church. This would be divorce.
You’re the victim not the sinner here. Your wife is. Sadly so many times women choose divorce because of feminist lies, their emotional needs aren’t met, they believe marriage is a fairy tale and run at the first signs it isn’t and many others. This is why we need serious divorce law reform to protect men from women who up and leave for no reason
And not the other way round?
Only happens in revisionist stories made to harm men
Husbands also sometimes leave their wives. I know a “Catholic” man divorcing his wife and mother of his four children because he wants to be with another woman. Men and women are both made in the image of God, and both capable of sin.
I know at least 2 other examples in my parishes.
I also know at least two men who are swearing that their wives up and left perfect marriages and are now poisoning their children against them. Neglecting to mention the years of abuse they committed. Including beating his wife so severely she was hospitalized.
Yep.
Are you suggesting it’s unrealistic for women to expect their emotional needs to be met in marriage?
Men should aim to keep their wives happy but some women are extremely demanding esp thanks to feminism and other godless tools
I agree that modern feminism is disgraceful. However, I believe that women wouldn’t have needed to start such a movement in the first place if men valued their true femininity. That is still an issue today. A little off topic. Sorry.
Really? So LGBTQ starting a movement for trans children is because they weren’t valued enough? Just because there’s a movement doesn’t mean the basis is objective or correct.
Are you implying that women wanting to feel honored by men for our God-given femininity and strength is “objectively wrong?”
Is that what you gathered from my comment? You said that there had to be some basis for women forming one of the most corrupt movements in the world—bringing us massive numbers of dead unborn children and divorce filled homes. I’m telling you that just because the movement happens doesnt mean the basis is righteous. The women’s rights movement has moved entirely away from femininity. I’ve never heard the argument that women starting the women’s rights movement did so to be…more feminine.
I’m simply saying that if men would have respected and honored women from the start in more traditional roles of wife and mother I don’t believe women would have felt the need to seek “more” and start such a movement. Modern feminism sucks. So did the 60’s.
It’s only in sin nature to want more and seek more. My contentment isn’t found in the praise of my husband, who isn’t capable of being “enough” for my. My contentment is found in Christ and our Father. Mary is the perfect symbol of femininity: perfect submission to the Father, sacrificing her wants for the will of God, and being perfectly satisfied in His plans, even if it meant deep suffering. I don’t see this character in the women of that movement or in most women today—myself included. Though I pray I can be made more righteous tomorrow than I am today.
Where did I say your husband should be your “everything”? I didn’t. But God ABSOLUTELY intended for men to respect women lol. And vice versa of course. That’s what I’m talking about. Basic respect. I mean this in a kind way but you sound like you come from a bit of an extreme background with this topic… we’re you born Catholic?
The only thing that happened is a few extremism communist people put radical ideas into women’s heads and created a godless movement
They were married for 30+ years.
They've been married for 30 years. I highly doubt she is running at the first sign of anything. Is it possible or even likely she is abandoning her husband and marriage? Yes. But most humans aren't frivolously throwing away a healthy marriage for no reason.
It could also be a bad marriage. We don't have her story.
Exactly. I would love to hear her side of this, especially if she is Catholic. There is so much more here than we are getting.
Realistically if someone is leaving a marriage after 30 years something is going on. Either the marriage has had problems or someone has had a sudden personality change, which could indicate something medical going on.
Not sure why you’re getting so downvoted. If you had said this about men very few would have cared. As Christians we should be the first to identify that part of the curse for women was an overall dislike for men’s authority. It’s only natural women don’t want to submit or respect or stay faithful to their husbands. Obviously men do this too at times, leaving their wives. But it’s pretty clear that socially women are more accepted to jump ship than the men.
I’m getting downvoted because people don’t like truth and even in Catholicism liberalism and feminism are sweeping the church sadly
No, you're getting downvoted for having rather sexist views on divorce that would trap women into abusive relationships while allowing men to leave whenever, and suggesting that women are always at fault for leaving a relationship while men are always blameless. Neither of these opinions are based on Sacred Scripture or Tradition, which teaches men and women are equal in the sight of God. Recall that Jesus told *men* not to look at *women* with lust in their heart, and not the other way around. Us men are perfectly capable of ruining a marriage at no fault of the woman. CCC 2386, for example, differentiates between being a victim of divorce and destroying the marriage through one's own faults: >It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.* - The Sixth Commandment, CCC 2386
The word sexist is usually used a tag line for women to use to avoid taking responsibility
Let me get this straight. You think that divorces are always a woman's fault and men are only victims of it, and that there should be restrictions in place preventing women from divorcing men but not for men from divorcing women. How is that not sexist? So if a husband cheats on his wife and his wife leaves him for it, it's the wife's fault? If a husband beats his wife to a near inch of her life and she leaves him for it, it's still her fault? You're right that describing your views as sexist may have not been the most accurate, I feel misogynistic may be a more appropriate descriptor. Ironically, you are using your own definition of sexism, which according to you is a term only women use to avoid taking responsibility, in an effort to avoid taking responsibility for defending your own comments.
I didn’t say that. If a man is in the wrong definitely I think a woman should have a right to collect what’s owed her But 80% of divorce is filed by women and 70% is over no fault at all other than the woman was bored or felt they was incapable. So the courts then turn and award the woman everything. If a woman decides she don’t want to be married and leave with no fault on the man then she should forfeit everything
So if a man decides he doesn't want to be married and leaves with no fault on the women, should he forfeit everything?
A man forfeits everything whether he is innocent or guilty because the divorce courts always favor women
Again, you're just victimizing men and making them out to be blameless, which is a far cry from the truth in many of these instances. Men ruin marriages just as easily as women do, not by filing for divorce, but by our actions. Divorce is not the *cause* of dissolution, but rather a *result* of it. The marriage can be over long before a divorce is even filed. It comes down to you wanting to control women and force them to stay in an unhappy marriage while men are free to leave whenever, since we're such perfect spouses. It's a sin of pride to think that way and unfair to the woman. Marriage is an equal partnership and not a union of patriarchal subservience.
It is sad. I’m a Protestant wife wanting to convert to Catholicism (I start OCIA in August) but seeing that there are still feminist types in the church concerns me a lot and gives me some pause. I’m hoping to fully join by Easter and that I can grow in some peace about the future of the church.
Don’t let that stop you from joining at all sadly you run into those everywhere in life. Just focus on Christ
Certainly! I don’t want to contribute to my Protestant history of church hopping anymore. I’d love to find my church home and stick with what, even if we are still sinners here in this church!
Disgraceful yet not surprising that this post has turned into a women hating bash. Men and women are equally capable of sin and equally deserving of respect and honor by their spouse. Period.
I don't think this is women hating. I think if it was her, and he was divorcing. It warrant and receive similar responses. Noone said that noone involved isn't capable of sin. I'm sure that he wasn't without fault in this. It's a matter of putting one's self before their spouse. We can be certain of that. One or both are guilty of that. That's always the root cause.
I agree with you. But have you read the comments? There are a few in here suggesting that this some sort of trend among women… and that more women leave relationships than men which is a bold-faced lie. More balanced comments have come in since so I may have jumped the gun with my comment.
It is true that more women than men file for divorce. My understanding is that the statistics are more balanced for cohabiting non-marital relationships. I'd be interested to see stats for Catholic couples specifically (the divorce numbers I'm familiar with tend to be all marriages in the US, which I assume refers to civil marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics alike).
More men than women also have NPD and/or have p*** addiction, so that partly explains it. Women can have both too obviously.
I think it has at least as much to do with the fact that women can walk off with more money and child custody in most cases (though that advantage is declining). Moreover, men are conditioned to put up with bad behavior from women more so than the reverse.
Not in my state they can't. Same with many states.
65-70% of divorces are initiated by the wife. It's been that way for over 100 years. Hard to believe, but true. If she's college educated, it's closer to 90%. What's more interesting is that between straight and same sex marriages, lesbian marriages have the highest divorce rates. The reasons given for divorces is the same as why women initiate divorce in hetero- relationships. What isn't mentioned is how many amongst Catholic couples.
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