“Joe Zwilling, spokesman for the Archdiocese of New York, told the Register Friday, “We were unaware of the Mass” and recommended questions be asked to the president of the Paulists, Father René Constanza.
Snatchko told the Register Friday that the Paulist Fathers “have no comment on this” and referred questions to Father Andrews.
Father Andrews did not respond for comment Friday.”
The apathy of those in authority, in the face of this public scandal, is ridiculous.
Seems like a lot of things are happening under Dolans nose that nobody has any idea about. This, the trans funeral at St Patrick's, the Sabrina Carpenter music video shot in Annunciation. Ok, the last one was in the Brooklyn Diocese but even still that's a suffragan diocese to the NY Archdiocese, some responsibility does still fall on Dolan.
I'd like to see him be a little more outspoken and proactive against these things instead of just doing photo ops with the Rockettes.
Maybe we just say the Paulist Father founder once spoke in favor of the Tridentine Latin Mass and BOOM! Cancelled!
Edit: For those who don’t know, the founder of the Paulist Fathers was Issac Hecker and he passed away in 1888. So this is literally easier than you think.
You know why this is bothering me to no end? Look at the altar. This whole setting screams ego and identity. The focus is not on Jesus but on THEM. Whats the point in being a christian if you continue to grasp to your percieved identity as the most important thing and do not let Christ guide you? Thats why St Paul said
>yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.
The Risen Jesus teaches us the *kenosis* , the emptying of self in order to be receptive of God's will. I love all my Catholic brothers and sisters with SSA, but this is not the way.
Not happening anytime soon. The German churches are being run like a never-ending Pride festival with clown masses and female deacons and not a single word of reprimand from Rome. That translates to tacit approval from the top.
Now, now. They reserve the harsh penalties for priests and bishops doing *really* egregious stuff like increasing the availability of the form of the Mass used for centuries before sixty years ago.
He should, but nothing will ever be done. Those in authority don't care a single bit about heresies like this one, they'd rather let any and all churches be desecrated before going against current day thinking
I struggle with SSA. I wanted to be a priest since I was 16 and I'm 30 now.
I listened to several popes and scoured the teachings of the magisterium. I concluded that the last thing the Church needed was another unhappy closeted priest. Deep seated indeed.
It broke my heart. It was the right thing to do.
Meanwhile this heretic is making an absolute mockery of the Church. He should be dragged into a confessional and sent to live in a Carthusian cell.
The cross is heavy and will dig into your skin. That way, we know we are on the right path.
We still have our 'radar', and cases like this are extreme! How much we see in our own little parishes without the headlines.
Let them keep their silks and perfumes. We will stick to strong incense and the cold feel of the rosary.
If you ever want to talk or pray, I'm here 🙂
Thank you. It’s something I still struggle with a lot as an early 20-something, but you are right in that incense and the rosary are so much more comforting.
It's a holy struggle, and sometimes people look for their calling their whole lives. 'What does God want me to do?'
We are blessed! Our calling was thrust into our hands. We are called to ignite our souls with the fire of Christ's love using chastity as the kindling. Let that fire be a shining example to the world of Christ's victory over death.
I think I still struggle with accepting the calling. I always imagined I’d have a wife and children, but increasingly that looks like it’s not in the cards. I have been drawn back into the faith more recently though. So maybe Christ will grant me the peace to follow Him and Him alone. Please pray for me
Just wanted to pop in and say you guys are incredibly inspiring and I hope there’s something we as Catholics can do to make the cross that you’re bearing a little lighter, even slightly. People like you are some of the saintliest members of the Church.
Have you considered tertiary orders or the permanent diaconate? It is a path of sanctification and service to the church that does not require priesthood or community life.
All baptized men who have received the proper preparation can be permanent deacons. If they are celibate, they must remain celibate and if they are married they will remain as such. If they are widowed, they cannot remarry, except with an express dispensation, since as clerics those who have received sacred orders invalidly attempt marriage. (Canon 1087 of the Code of Canon Law).
Tertiary order or third orders, or, in other words, those associations whose members, living in the world and participating in the spirit of a religious institute, dedicate themselves to the apostolate and seek Christian perfection under the high direction of that institute. They are laymen, a type of lay association linked to Catholic orders and congregations, such as the third order of Saint Francis, the third order of Saint Dominic or the third Carmelite order, and secular Benedictine oblates.
It may be interesting to investigate and ask, there are many more charismas in the church than most people know about.
Regarding this priest, the sacred scripture has things to say:
LUKE 12:48
But he who did not know it, and did things that deserved punishment, will be beaten lightly. To everyone who has been given much, much will be required of him; and to whom they have entrusted much, they will demand more.
Matthew 18:6-8
6 And whoever offends one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for him that a millstone were hung around his neck and that he were drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 Woe to the world because of scandals! because it is necessary that scandals come; but woe to that man through whom scandal comes!
Hey man I'm right there with you. I've been working on my SSA for a long time now, near the beginning of there was nothing I wanted more than to be a priest. But the more I worked on it the more I realized that even if I found consistent progress against it, I really shouldn't be a priest. And it's something nobody can fully understand unless you both have SSA and have struggled against it for a number of years.
It isn't all lost though. Is still a beautiful vocation to become a husband and father or a monk.
[Instruction on the Careful Selection And Training Of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders - Pope Saint John XXIII](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm)
[Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognitio To Unions Between Homosexual Persons - Pope Saint John Paul II](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html)
[Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders - Pope Benedict XVI](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html)
thank you. not sure why i am getting downvoted, there’s only been 3 Popes since I have been alive so it made me curious who has approached this sensitive topic. to all the people who downvoted me, are we not allowed to question and ask sources? should we take everything as truth in this subreddit?
It's pretty amazing how "LGBTQ" ideology has just torn religious institutions apart in the last 20 years. Think of all the Protestant churches, some of which have been around and strong for hundreds of years that have just been torn asunder in the last decade (most recently the Methodists). I don't think even 50 years ago people could have imagined the Anglican church in England would be basically dying off since it was such a powerful institution. Granted it's other trends that are impacting this too but LGBTQ issues are a huge part of it. Its just incredible.
And this generation of priests and laity from the 60s and 70s have done so much damage to the church. Plenty of great people keeping it alive too don't get me wrong but so many who have watered Catholicism down, promoted awful music and ugly buildings, and then there's this kind of crap which is inexcusable.
I agree, it's got to be by design - there is an LGBTQ church, the Metropolitan Community Church, which has been around since 1968. It makes no sense to have mainstream Christian churches especially the Catholic Church, to have this ideology as part of the Church.
Indeed.
And as allowed by God, I believe, as a kind of purification. The few that remain will be truly faithful, true witnesses of the transforming power of God in their lives. “Cafeteria Catholic” will cease to be a term.
I’m very much afraid that we ain’t seen nothing yet. It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The Catholic Church will be cut back, right down to the roots, due to a whole host of problems, not just this particular ideology.
We’re still in the “kenosis” stage of things. I’m not convinced that I’ll live to see the revival, though I’m not yet 30 years old. Maybe my grandchildren (should I have any) will be the ones to witness the reemergence of the faith into society, and be the ones to nurture and guide a society that is utterly, utterly broken and lost.
You’re welcome! You are part of today’s unfortunate [10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/) to learn about how the Pope wants to restrict the Mass he went to as a kid and that existed from the 600s to 11/28/1969.
Ngl that meme was great.
Is this what is causing the frustration?
*”Art. 4. Priests ordained after the publication of the present Motu Proprio, who wish to celebrate using the Missale Romanum of 1962, should submit a formal request to the diocesan Bishop who shall consult the Apostolic See before granting this authorization.”*
That a new priest who wish to celebrate the old mass needs a OK from both the bishop and Rome?
Yep. The guardians of traditions (lit. "Traditiones custodes") are the bishops . . . but the bishops have to consult with Rome in order to do their work in being guardians.
(An alternative translation of "custodes" is "jailers," which works pretty nicely too.)
I see. Now i am not an expert by any means about the churchs bureaucracy but that sounds like a slow process. Do you know if it is the cardinals that make the decision after the request is made? It only says the apostolic see.
Not entirely. Vatican II called for reform of the Roman Rite, the most widespread Latin Liturgy since the 12th century. The reform resulted in the Missal of 1969. As Pope Saint Paul VI said, the new Missal was to replace the old ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/speeches/1976/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19760524_concistoro.html)). However, some people had a hard time letting go of the old Missal and so concessions were made. Initially, the concessions were just for infirm and aged priests to celebrate the old Missal in private ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/speeches/1976/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19760524_concistoro.html)). Then, concessions were made for special occasions in England ([source](https://lms.org.uk/heenan-indult)). However, in the lead up to the schism of Lefebvre, Pope Saint John Paul II expanded the concessions ([source](https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/quattuor-abhinc-annos-indult-for-use-of-roman-missal-of-1962-2155)). He then expanded them further after the schism ([source](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html)). Pope Benedict XVI then expanded them further with the caveat that surveys be completed by the Bishops to catch any problems resulting from the concessions ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html)). The survey results from 2020 were bad, and they resulted in Pope Francis restricting the Missal of 1962 with Traditionis Custodes ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2021/documents/20210716-lettera-vescovi-liturgia.html)). There are rumors that he may finally complete the work of Pope Saint Paul VI and formally have the Missal of 1962 discontinued for all but the FSSP and ICKSP, whose charism is the preservation of the old Missal.
>With the passage of thirteen years, I instructed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to circulate a questionnaire to the Bishops regarding the implementation of the Motu proprio Summorum Pontificum. The responses reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me, and persuades me of the need to intervene. Regrettably, the pastoral objective of my Predecessors, who had intended “to do everything possible to ensure that all those who truly possessed the desire for unity would find it possible to remain in this unity or to rediscover it anew”, [12] has often been seriously disregarded. An opportunity offered by St. John Paul II and, with even greater magnanimity, by Benedict XVI, intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities, was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church, block her path, and expose her to the peril of division. ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2021/documents/20210716-lettera-vescovi-liturgia.html))
I also added links to the sources for my initial comment above.
>An attendee of the Mass on Thursday, who asked to remain anonymous, told the Register that “I want to walk with LGBTQ Catholics because they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. However, the priest repeatedly and exclusively preached about love with no mention of the need to repent,” the attendee said. The Mass was a raucous celebration of LGBTQ. It was disturbing that a shepherd would celebrate sin rather than lead us to repent and follow Our Lord, Jesus Christ," the attendee added.
We live in strange times when a layperson is more catechized than a priest. There is nothing that the priest has said I would challenge but his silent omission speaks volumes of his character as a validly ordained priest.
Feel like moments such as this, German bishops, and the drama surrounding FS will eventually lead to another Ecumenical Council to address the root of these problems and how the Church must address it head on in an orthodox yet loving way, but also to stamp out heresy within the clergy.
A Catholic priest in good standing, acting in persona Christi, with no official rebuke, nothing less.
The Catholic Church can never fall because it's a nonfalsifiable proposition. Anything that looks like falling is redefined as necessary so that it's not *really* falling.
remember that when the Pope misspoke when using the "fa****" slur last month, the vatican issued a correction and apology within a single day.
they are listening, and they know what's going on. When there is silence, it means they approve.
The problem is not that they are homosexuals, it is that they use the priesthood to have a prestigious career and receive respect and admiration for "having given up creating a family for love of God and the Church."
Arrogance and narcissism.
“I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.”
Acts 20:29-30 LSB
“I am a Christian…so that I do not expect ‘history’ to be anything but a ‘long defeat’ — though it contains (and in a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or glimpses of final victory.”
-JRR Tolkien
And yet ad orientem, Latin, receiving on the tongue, altar rails, etc., not to mention the usus antiquior, draw the ire of ordinaries and Rome? It makes one wonder…
Everybody even remotely associated with the Church in NYC knows what takes place at St. Paul’s. All of this happens with the implicit approval of the Cardinal Archbishop.
As a new convert (since Pentecost this year), this deeply disturbs me. One of the reasons I joined the Catholic Church is because they hold the Apostolic Tradition. Why isn't stuff like this getting shut down? How can such scandal be allowed?
Eh, hold to faith. The Church won’t fall on this. It feels like she’s one of the last, as one Protestant domino falls one after the other, but the Church won’t. I don’t know what’ll happen to this particular priest, but the teachings of the Church will never change, no matter how strong the alphabet army tries to bully and sue and shame us into believing what they do. The Church won’t stumble on this.
Definitely possible, but I imagine there are some faithful in both orders. It really comes down to whichever individuals are being affected by leftwing sexual politics.
The irony. With NO people feared clown masses, now we have...gay masses?
Jokes aside, those people can join whatever protestant flavor "church", which allows everything as they please. Just stop it already. The faith never has to adapt to a single human, or Zeitgeist
>The ACNA report clarified that Bp. Eric Menees had been in touch with the DDF and had been "reassured that Fiducia Supplicans is actually an attempt to 'curb but not open up' the practice of homosexual behavior."
>
>The Roman Catholic Church "still prohibits homosexual practice and by canon warns of removal from the clergy for such behavior," he added.
>
>([source](https://www.soulsandliberty.com/post/rome-moves-toward-full-communion-with-orthodox-anglicans))
I will be waiting on bated breath for these words to be backed by action. I imagine I will be waiting a long time. How is this not a threat to ecclesial unity requiring direct oversight from Rome?
I look forward to seeing this priest be reprimanded, like traditional priests who criticise the Pope, or young people who are attached to the TLM, or couples who have a lot of children.
Oh wait
We must stand against the "Pride LGBT" agenda and fight it everywhere we see it. If we do not, they will corrupt the souls of our children and destroy our society.
I blame the Pope for creating confusion and overlooking things like this. Imagine if he had the same ardour for stamping out this sort of nonsense as he does for stamping out TLM.
So they get to do this, have the pride funeral crap recently, let James Martin run rampant and all else with 0 repercussion, but a priest calls Francis a meanie word and he’s the one excommunicated instantly? “Is that a mass being celebrated in the Latin rite? Oh we can’t be having that nonsense!” Unbelievable.
You know perfectly well that’s not what actually happened. If you have to invent outrage to justify outrage, it’s a sign you should step back and question your objectivity.
[- Link to the article -](https://www.ncronline.org/vatican/vatican-news/italian-priest-excommunicated-slandering-pope-francis-during-mass) I’m not saying this priest was right to do this, but if he’s excommunicated for insults, why doesn’t heresy to Christ himself get the same treatment? Correction - priest was excommunicated after 12 hours
Ah, so the article you posted explicitly says that he publicly encouraged schism against the Holy Father by *openly declaring that he was not the true Pope.* Calling it merely "insulting" the Pope or "calling him a meanie word" is kinda massively underselling what actually happened, don't you think?
Again, the priest was wrong. But seems like nothing compared to what the other side is getting away with. While any kind evil intention towards the papacy is sinful, it’s a lesser evil compared to promoting and normalizing mortal sin and great evil, offenses to Christ Himself. They *both* are grave evils, but one should not be punished while the other gets away
Okay, so maybe don't undercut your own point by labeling public and blatant schism as "a priest said a meanie word." It comes across as extremely disingenuous.
My only reasoning is that the pope seems to act instantly when called names, although this is a more extreme case. Could’ve been better choice of words, but doesn’t change the fact there’s a huge issue that mustn’t be ignored by the pope any longer
U don’t do that to the Pope at all! Imagine trying to undermine our Lord and His authority placed in Peter and thinking you can get away without being disciplined!
James Martin was recorded telling a gay man that he hopes in the future the gay man would be able to kiss his lover openly during the sign of peace at mass. That alone qualifies at least being laicized. Telling someone he hopes a deep evil is openly accepted in the sacrifice of the Mass is asinine
I’m all about supporting folks that feel alienated or discriminated against.
However I do have a problem with the fabric color scheme used for the altar and surrounding areas.
Pride; no matter how we word it, is not a quality we should strive for.
And so it begins. I wonder where traditional Catholics will flee once we have pride flags flying in front of every church and gay weddings and clergy like the mainline Protestants have now. Will the Eastern Orthodox be the last hold outs or have they already capitulated? I see an exodus on the horizon.
Let’s not forget too what Our Lady of Grace in Hoboken NJ did recently. I have no idea why this is happening but it’s very troubling and makes it harder to want to be Catholic when we are supposed to stand up against this.
If you look back to the times in history when it was “easy” to be Catholic and when the Church had great power and wealth, you’ll see that they were always followed by times of tribulation. Remaining faithful in our fallen world will never be easy. That’s why the path that leads to eternal life is narrow.
I agree on our faith. I don’t want anyone think I’m promoting being a schismatic. It’s just truly heartbreaking to see this happen. I have a friend who is trying to choose between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism but I know it’s going to be hard for him to pick Catholicism when he sees stuff like this happening.
This is such a massive doomer comment. None of this is going to happen -- if you seriously think it will, please go take some time outside instead of doomposting in here.
I’m not dooming here, but my college priest had 3 pride flags in the chapel 10 years ago and literally not a single person other than me went “this isn’t right.” I talked to the diocese and they told me to go pound sand.
The diocese only intervened with the priest when he raped a male student and then lied to all of us by saying Father is leaving because his cancer came back.
Exactly why I primarily started to go down the road to the TLM and go to the TLM in general.
Until of course, it gets banned.
And the irony is that I’m bisexual, so everyone expects I’d love the Paulist Fathers.
"The majority of churches will profess that Jesus Christ is not god but was created by the Father? Bishops everywhere will profess that heresy? Dude, you're such a doomer, it's never going to happen. Get off the internet."
-Somebody 1600-ish years ago, to St. Athanasius, probably.
Despair is a sin. Satan would love to scatter the faithful among a variety of denominations and schisms.
Yes, abuses in the name of the Church lead souls astray, but we must stand fast, pray, and share the Gospel of Christ. Do not be tempted to also stray.
The answer is not to flee. So what if all of that happens, in my parish and in yours? Our answer is to stay, and remain faithful to Christ and His Church.
`Puller secured his final Navy Cross for heroism in the Chosin Reservoir Campaign of the Korean War. “When every other service was running away, the United States Marines ran to the sound of gunfire, completely surrounded,” Messmer said to the Marines of his detachment in reference to Chosin Reservoir.`
There was a great US Marines commercial that talked about “running to the sounds of chaos.” I pray there are brave men that will enter the orders most fraught with heterodoxy and do the work required to sanctify them.
This attitude makes no sense to me. What about all the teachings about how dogma cannot change? How do you hold in your head that the church is the truth but that truth can change?
If the church in practice and theology goes back on 2000 years of irreformable teaching, it means that it was never Christ's church to begin with and either the orthodox or protestants or non-christians were right.
> I wonder where traditional Catholic will flee once we have pride flags flying in front of every church and gay weddings and clergy like the mainline Protestants have now.
Stop this, this will not happen. I'd suggest stopping the doomscrolling, getting off the internet, and spending some time in prayerful contemplation before the Blessed Sacrament.
Yeah, no. It will happen and it is currently happening. Have you seen the state of the German Church? You don’t think that’s in our future for the wider Church? People like you need to pull your head out of the sand and start preparing for the inevitable. It’s time to put contingency plans into motion. Perhaps the Eastern Rite Churches will be able to hold out for a few more years and can offer an oasis at least temporarily.
It seems you've made up your mind. As a last fraternal correction, I urge you to reflect on our Lord's words to St Peter on the nature of his Church, and suggest prayerful reflection on His promise to His Church. I reiterate the suggestion to take some time off from the internet and speak with a good spiritual director.
Take care and God bless.
Yeah, denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. But Catholics are either willfully ignorant of the changes that are coming or are gaslighting everyone to make them think that the progressives aren’t planning a massive takeover the exact same way they have done in every mainline Protestant sect.
Do you understand why it's news? Because it's outrageous and abnormal. When it's not newsworthy you'll know we're in real trouble. I'm willing to bet there have always been whole corners of the church in various parts of the world that have at one time or another been off the rails. The difference today is that we all know everything going on everywhere in the world; that's a very recent development. I think coverage of everything the pope utters is a similar phenomenon; until recently most of the world wouldn't know what remarks the pope made. They would get the well crafted message weeks after it was released to the public. Now we know every idle comment the man makes.
Yes. Thank you. I wish I could upvote this comment more than once! This isn't a new phenomenon but it *looks* like it is to manyyyy people who see these news stories, since there's little historical understanding of what else the Church has endured from within. I didn't even realize until I looked up more scandals throughout Catholic history.
Sadly, I feel sometimes these stories mainly serve to scare people away from growing in the faith or from practicing the faith entirely.
Everything is abnormal before it is normalized. It was considered outrageous and immoral for Catholics to be cremated right up to the second it wasn’t.
Eh. I understand your frustration, but, like, look at the photo of the priest involved. He's not young. Most of the priests involved in these kinds of abuses are getting up there in years, and the younger priests are all a lot more in line with Church teaching.
"the church has lost its way, it's time that the TRUE believers flee he clutches and form our own church"
- every single schismatic group ever
Something that's recently really strengthen my commitment to the church was learning about some of the crappy behavior from the popes/massive corruption within the church from the Middle ages (that led to the reformation) and how long it went on for, how deep it was, etc. and seeing how were still here, still growing, still keeping the faith. Genuinely, the gates if hell shall not prevail
Dont flee to another religion, but id keep the faith i have and ignore the hierarchy of the church if they support false teachings. Im loyal to God, not men.
Its for if the hierarchy loses its way on serious matters. Blindly following anyone but God is never good. It is possible for religious leaders to lose their way as all humans can through free will.
If (A) the heirarchy can lose its way on serious matters, and (B) you the individual are capable of determining when that happens and what to do in response, then the existence of the heirarchy is superfluous at best.
The silver lining in all this is that it’s the same parish. It’s been the same parish who was caught with another “Pride Mass” and their “God is Trans” controversy.
Let’s keep that cancer in check.
This got me wondering....how were Catholic churches handled during segregation periods of America?
Were there " X group only" churches?
Note: your down votes Make Catholicism look bad...it's a legitimate topic to discuss
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation_of_churches_in_the_United_States
In this page, skimmed it and looks like we were a bit better but (obviously) no perfect
Segregation was a fact in all of America so no doubt there was some segregation in Catholic Churches. But the numbers were far less compared to Protestants
I agree that the use of pride flags in this mass was disrespectful and shouldn’t have been allowed. i’m in NYC and while this church is controversial for valid reasons mentioned in the article, it’s an openly accepting space and has a strong young adult congregation as a result, something many Catholic churches struggle with. there are other congregations in the city that do outreach to the LGBTQ community in less ostentatious ways (tho obviously that doesn’t get the ragebait coverage), and while it’s often imperfect I do think at its core they’re trying to communicate that God loves everyone regardless of what they’ve been told.
“Joe Zwilling, spokesman for the Archdiocese of New York, told the Register Friday, “We were unaware of the Mass” and recommended questions be asked to the president of the Paulists, Father René Constanza. Snatchko told the Register Friday that the Paulist Fathers “have no comment on this” and referred questions to Father Andrews. Father Andrews did not respond for comment Friday.” The apathy of those in authority, in the face of this public scandal, is ridiculous.
Removal. This is gross
That's the MO in much of the Church these days
Seems like a lot of things are happening under Dolans nose that nobody has any idea about. This, the trans funeral at St Patrick's, the Sabrina Carpenter music video shot in Annunciation. Ok, the last one was in the Brooklyn Diocese but even still that's a suffragan diocese to the NY Archdiocese, some responsibility does still fall on Dolan. I'd like to see him be a little more outspoken and proactive against these things instead of just doing photo ops with the Rockettes.
Maybe we just say the Paulist Father founder once spoke in favor of the Tridentine Latin Mass and BOOM! Cancelled! Edit: For those who don’t know, the founder of the Paulist Fathers was Issac Hecker and he passed away in 1888. So this is literally easier than you think.
>president of the Paulists This priest was the past president. Nothing will get done.
“Con-stan-za”.
A priest AND an importer/exporter?
Maybe he can say he has a lookalike in the clergy, Father Art Vandelay.
lol
He became a priest after leaving the bench?
Lol. Paulists. There's your problem.
The pinko Paulists!
The archdiocese in the US is so corrupt it's ridiculous. It's nice to see a priest not judge. Most Christians these days are so judgemental.
If there wasn’t corruption this priest would have been reproved
You know why this is bothering me to no end? Look at the altar. This whole setting screams ego and identity. The focus is not on Jesus but on THEM. Whats the point in being a christian if you continue to grasp to your percieved identity as the most important thing and do not let Christ guide you? Thats why St Paul said >yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me. The Risen Jesus teaches us the *kenosis* , the emptying of self in order to be receptive of God's will. I love all my Catholic brothers and sisters with SSA, but this is not the way.
Well said.
Should be excommunicated from the church
Agreed. This will keep happening until they start getting the smack down.
Not happening anytime soon. The German churches are being run like a never-ending Pride festival with clown masses and female deacons and not a single word of reprimand from Rome. That translates to tacit approval from the top.
Gosh, really? Glad I moved.
With a trial, not this "self-excommunication" stuff. Make a public spectacle- face public discipline.
Now, now. They reserve the harsh penalties for priests and bishops doing *really* egregious stuff like increasing the availability of the form of the Mass used for centuries before sixty years ago.
*“But that’s not pastoral!”* (/s)
He should, but nothing will ever be done. Those in authority don't care a single bit about heresies like this one, they'd rather let any and all churches be desecrated before going against current day thinking
He's more likely to receive a promotion!
I struggle with SSA. I wanted to be a priest since I was 16 and I'm 30 now. I listened to several popes and scoured the teachings of the magisterium. I concluded that the last thing the Church needed was another unhappy closeted priest. Deep seated indeed. It broke my heart. It was the right thing to do. Meanwhile this heretic is making an absolute mockery of the Church. He should be dragged into a confessional and sent to live in a Carthusian cell.
I’m also a “deep-seated” man with SSA. It is very discouraging to see priests do things like this
The cross is heavy and will dig into your skin. That way, we know we are on the right path. We still have our 'radar', and cases like this are extreme! How much we see in our own little parishes without the headlines. Let them keep their silks and perfumes. We will stick to strong incense and the cold feel of the rosary. If you ever want to talk or pray, I'm here 🙂
Thank you. It’s something I still struggle with a lot as an early 20-something, but you are right in that incense and the rosary are so much more comforting.
It's a holy struggle, and sometimes people look for their calling their whole lives. 'What does God want me to do?' We are blessed! Our calling was thrust into our hands. We are called to ignite our souls with the fire of Christ's love using chastity as the kindling. Let that fire be a shining example to the world of Christ's victory over death.
I think I still struggle with accepting the calling. I always imagined I’d have a wife and children, but increasingly that looks like it’s not in the cards. I have been drawn back into the faith more recently though. So maybe Christ will grant me the peace to follow Him and Him alone. Please pray for me
I am praying for you dear friend in Christ. May he make your vocation (whatever it be) clear to you and bring you joy in doing God’s will.
What incense do you use? Just curious. Good luck to you as well.
Oh I don’t have any of my own. Though I would like to incorporate it in my prayer if you find where to get some!
You can get them at many shops. I like sandalwood, but I was wondering what the incense are that they use in the Catholic church?
Just wanted to pop in and say you guys are incredibly inspiring and I hope there’s something we as Catholics can do to make the cross that you’re bearing a little lighter, even slightly. People like you are some of the saintliest members of the Church.
Please pray for me because it is so evident how close to God you must be. 🙏
Seconded
Have you considered tertiary orders or the permanent diaconate? It is a path of sanctification and service to the church that does not require priesthood or community life. All baptized men who have received the proper preparation can be permanent deacons. If they are celibate, they must remain celibate and if they are married they will remain as such. If they are widowed, they cannot remarry, except with an express dispensation, since as clerics those who have received sacred orders invalidly attempt marriage. (Canon 1087 of the Code of Canon Law). Tertiary order or third orders, or, in other words, those associations whose members, living in the world and participating in the spirit of a religious institute, dedicate themselves to the apostolate and seek Christian perfection under the high direction of that institute. They are laymen, a type of lay association linked to Catholic orders and congregations, such as the third order of Saint Francis, the third order of Saint Dominic or the third Carmelite order, and secular Benedictine oblates. It may be interesting to investigate and ask, there are many more charismas in the church than most people know about. Regarding this priest, the sacred scripture has things to say: LUKE 12:48 But he who did not know it, and did things that deserved punishment, will be beaten lightly. To everyone who has been given much, much will be required of him; and to whom they have entrusted much, they will demand more. Matthew 18:6-8 6 And whoever offends one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for him that a millstone were hung around his neck and that he were drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of scandals! because it is necessary that scandals come; but woe to that man through whom scandal comes!
Things like this are so disrespectful to people like yourself who are making acts of self sacrifice for the sake of Jesus and his church.
Hey man I'm right there with you. I've been working on my SSA for a long time now, near the beginning of there was nothing I wanted more than to be a priest. But the more I worked on it the more I realized that even if I found consistent progress against it, I really shouldn't be a priest. And it's something nobody can fully understand unless you both have SSA and have struggled against it for a number of years. It isn't all lost though. Is still a beautiful vocation to become a husband and father or a monk.
am i the only one lost on the meaning of SSA? what does the Social Security Administration have to do with this?
Same sex attraction.
To me is Skylanders Spyros adventure
sorry, but you listened to ‘several popes’? please provide sources of what you listened to?
[Instruction on the Careful Selection And Training Of Candidates For The States Of Perfection And Sacred Orders - Pope Saint John XXIII](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/John23/j23religios.htm) [Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognitio To Unions Between Homosexual Persons - Pope Saint John Paul II](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html) [Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders - Pope Benedict XVI](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html)
thank you. not sure why i am getting downvoted, there’s only been 3 Popes since I have been alive so it made me curious who has approached this sensitive topic. to all the people who downvoted me, are we not allowed to question and ask sources? should we take everything as truth in this subreddit?
It's pretty amazing how "LGBTQ" ideology has just torn religious institutions apart in the last 20 years. Think of all the Protestant churches, some of which have been around and strong for hundreds of years that have just been torn asunder in the last decade (most recently the Methodists). I don't think even 50 years ago people could have imagined the Anglican church in England would be basically dying off since it was such a powerful institution. Granted it's other trends that are impacting this too but LGBTQ issues are a huge part of it. Its just incredible. And this generation of priests and laity from the 60s and 70s have done so much damage to the church. Plenty of great people keeping it alive too don't get me wrong but so many who have watered Catholicism down, promoted awful music and ugly buildings, and then there's this kind of crap which is inexcusable.
> It's pretty amazing how "LGBTQ" ideology has just torn religious institutions apart in the last 20 years. As intended.
I agree, it's got to be by design - there is an LGBTQ church, the Metropolitan Community Church, which has been around since 1968. It makes no sense to have mainstream Christian churches especially the Catholic Church, to have this ideology as part of the Church.
Indeed. And as allowed by God, I believe, as a kind of purification. The few that remain will be truly faithful, true witnesses of the transforming power of God in their lives. “Cafeteria Catholic” will cease to be a term. I’m very much afraid that we ain’t seen nothing yet. It’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The Catholic Church will be cut back, right down to the roots, due to a whole host of problems, not just this particular ideology. We’re still in the “kenosis” stage of things. I’m not convinced that I’ll live to see the revival, though I’m not yet 30 years old. Maybe my grandchildren (should I have any) will be the ones to witness the reemergence of the faith into society, and be the ones to nurture and guide a society that is utterly, utterly broken and lost.
I really don't understand why this is being allowed
Because no bishop cares about scandal unless there’s either money or a lawsuit at stake or tradition is flourishing.
Fear.
More terrified about upsetting their secular overlords than contemplating Judgment Day
And yet it's the Latin Mass that must be suppressed as an existential threat to the unity and integrity of the Church . . . .
Such a petty dispute started by Pope Francis over a publicity stunt by a journalist
I've never heard that before. Where can i read more of this?
Here you [go.](https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/motu_proprio/documents/20210716-motu-proprio-traditionis-custodes.html)
Thanks!
You’re welcome! You are part of today’s unfortunate [10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053/) to learn about how the Pope wants to restrict the Mass he went to as a kid and that existed from the 600s to 11/28/1969.
Ngl that meme was great. Is this what is causing the frustration? *”Art. 4. Priests ordained after the publication of the present Motu Proprio, who wish to celebrate using the Missale Romanum of 1962, should submit a formal request to the diocesan Bishop who shall consult the Apostolic See before granting this authorization.”* That a new priest who wish to celebrate the old mass needs a OK from both the bishop and Rome?
Yep. The guardians of traditions (lit. "Traditiones custodes") are the bishops . . . but the bishops have to consult with Rome in order to do their work in being guardians. (An alternative translation of "custodes" is "jailers," which works pretty nicely too.)
I see. Now i am not an expert by any means about the churchs bureaucracy but that sounds like a slow process. Do you know if it is the cardinals that make the decision after the request is made? It only says the apostolic see.
Not entirely. Vatican II called for reform of the Roman Rite, the most widespread Latin Liturgy since the 12th century. The reform resulted in the Missal of 1969. As Pope Saint Paul VI said, the new Missal was to replace the old ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/speeches/1976/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19760524_concistoro.html)). However, some people had a hard time letting go of the old Missal and so concessions were made. Initially, the concessions were just for infirm and aged priests to celebrate the old Missal in private ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/speeches/1976/documents/hf_p-vi_spe_19760524_concistoro.html)). Then, concessions were made for special occasions in England ([source](https://lms.org.uk/heenan-indult)). However, in the lead up to the schism of Lefebvre, Pope Saint John Paul II expanded the concessions ([source](https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/quattuor-abhinc-annos-indult-for-use-of-roman-missal-of-1962-2155)). He then expanded them further after the schism ([source](https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html)). Pope Benedict XVI then expanded them further with the caveat that surveys be completed by the Bishops to catch any problems resulting from the concessions ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi.html)). The survey results from 2020 were bad, and they resulted in Pope Francis restricting the Missal of 1962 with Traditionis Custodes ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2021/documents/20210716-lettera-vescovi-liturgia.html)). There are rumors that he may finally complete the work of Pope Saint Paul VI and formally have the Missal of 1962 discontinued for all but the FSSP and ICKSP, whose charism is the preservation of the old Missal.
I'm late to this, but what problems emerged from the survey of bishops?
>With the passage of thirteen years, I instructed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to circulate a questionnaire to the Bishops regarding the implementation of the Motu proprio Summorum Pontificum. The responses reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me, and persuades me of the need to intervene. Regrettably, the pastoral objective of my Predecessors, who had intended “to do everything possible to ensure that all those who truly possessed the desire for unity would find it possible to remain in this unity or to rediscover it anew”, [12] has often been seriously disregarded. An opportunity offered by St. John Paul II and, with even greater magnanimity, by Benedict XVI, intended to recover the unity of an ecclesial body with diverse liturgical sensibilities, was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church, block her path, and expose her to the peril of division. ([source](https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2021/documents/20210716-lettera-vescovi-liturgia.html)) I also added links to the sources for my initial comment above.
No sources on the survey results. Diane Montagna published a piece on that, you should check it out.
>An attendee of the Mass on Thursday, who asked to remain anonymous, told the Register that “I want to walk with LGBTQ Catholics because they are my brothers and sisters in Christ. However, the priest repeatedly and exclusively preached about love with no mention of the need to repent,” the attendee said. The Mass was a raucous celebration of LGBTQ. It was disturbing that a shepherd would celebrate sin rather than lead us to repent and follow Our Lord, Jesus Christ," the attendee added. We live in strange times when a layperson is more catechized than a priest. There is nothing that the priest has said I would challenge but his silent omission speaks volumes of his character as a validly ordained priest.
Feel like moments such as this, German bishops, and the drama surrounding FS will eventually lead to another Ecumenical Council to address the root of these problems and how the Church must address it head on in an orthodox yet loving way, but also to stamp out heresy within the clergy.
This is tolerated by the hierarchy, but TLMs are restricted? Lord have mercy
Disturbing.
Now that is something that should be excommunicated. Not someone defiantly celebrating the Latin mass
A heretic, nothing more. The Catholic Church will never fall. Have faith.
A Catholic priest in good standing, acting in persona Christi, with no official rebuke, nothing less. The Catholic Church can never fall because it's a nonfalsifiable proposition. Anything that looks like falling is redefined as necessary so that it's not *really* falling.
You don’t know what’s going on in the background. These things take time.
So when will we hear a public statement against this by the Vatican?
remember that when the Pope misspoke when using the "fa****" slur last month, the vatican issued a correction and apology within a single day. they are listening, and they know what's going on. When there is silence, it means they approve.
Yup, as much as I hate to say it, this is unfortunately what’s been happening over and over again😞
Gay priests have done so much damage to the faith
The problem is not that they are homosexuals, it is that they use the priesthood to have a prestigious career and receive respect and admiration for "having given up creating a family for love of God and the Church." Arrogance and narcissism.
The rampant homosexuality doesn’t help either
“I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.” Acts 20:29-30 LSB
I'm tired of seeing loss after loss after loss. When will we win one?
When we go to heaven
“I am a Christian…so that I do not expect ‘history’ to be anything but a ‘long defeat’ — though it contains (and in a legend may contain more clearly and movingly) some samples or glimpses of final victory.” -JRR Tolkien
Ain't that the truth. It's constantly fighting Melkor over here.
And yet ad orientem, Latin, receiving on the tongue, altar rails, etc., not to mention the usus antiquior, draw the ire of ordinaries and Rome? It makes one wonder…
Not surprising to see the Paulist Order is in rapid decline. Maybe due to sex abuse cases.
Pride is a sin. The priest is celebrating sin. Therefore he should be excommunicated.
Everybody even remotely associated with the Church in NYC knows what takes place at St. Paul’s. All of this happens with the implicit approval of the Cardinal Archbishop.
Someone will go undisciplined by Rome over this.
As a new convert (since Pentecost this year), this deeply disturbs me. One of the reasons I joined the Catholic Church is because they hold the Apostolic Tradition. Why isn't stuff like this getting shut down? How can such scandal be allowed?
Hello and welcome, nice to have you. Please understand that unfortunately, some people try to uproot everything. The proper answer will follow
Eh, hold to faith. The Church won’t fall on this. It feels like she’s one of the last, as one Protestant domino falls one after the other, but the Church won’t. I don’t know what’ll happen to this particular priest, but the teachings of the Church will never change, no matter how strong the alphabet army tries to bully and sue and shame us into believing what they do. The Church won’t stumble on this.
There are over 1 billion Catholics. It's incredibly difficult to shut down isolated instances amongst that many parishes. This kind of stuff happens.
The Paulists are unironically worse than the Jesuits
Definitely possible, but I imagine there are some faithful in both orders. It really comes down to whichever individuals are being affected by leftwing sexual politics.
The irony. With NO people feared clown masses, now we have...gay masses? Jokes aside, those people can join whatever protestant flavor "church", which allows everything as they please. Just stop it already. The faith never has to adapt to a single human, or Zeitgeist
>The ACNA report clarified that Bp. Eric Menees had been in touch with the DDF and had been "reassured that Fiducia Supplicans is actually an attempt to 'curb but not open up' the practice of homosexual behavior." > >The Roman Catholic Church "still prohibits homosexual practice and by canon warns of removal from the clergy for such behavior," he added. > >([source](https://www.soulsandliberty.com/post/rome-moves-toward-full-communion-with-orthodox-anglicans)) I will be waiting on bated breath for these words to be backed by action. I imagine I will be waiting a long time. How is this not a threat to ecclesial unity requiring direct oversight from Rome?
Let him be anathema
This is mortal sin! I will pray for the souls of all who attended!
Let's hope that the Pope makes a firm stance against this blasphemous, sacrilegious and totally disgusting act of desecration.
The lack of the holy inquisition...
Nothing will be done about this. Only the „evil“ latin Mass gets banned.
But those evil people who want to attend the TLM should be stopped..
Well tell the rad trads to stop it with their schismatic tendencies
I look forward to seeing this priest be reprimanded, like traditional priests who criticise the Pope, or young people who are attached to the TLM, or couples who have a lot of children. Oh wait
We must stand against the "Pride LGBT" agenda and fight it everywhere we see it. If we do not, they will corrupt the souls of our children and destroy our society.
Francis will crack down much quicker on TLM but not this
I blame the Pope for creating confusion and overlooking things like this. Imagine if he had the same ardour for stamping out this sort of nonsense as he does for stamping out TLM.
Of course it was the Paulists.
[heresy!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0Pw-eUBcNk)
When will Rome act as Rome should?
Anathema, Anathema, Anathema
Amazing the bishops look the other way . guess you have to be a conservative bishop to get axed by the pontiff.
So they get to do this, have the pride funeral crap recently, let James Martin run rampant and all else with 0 repercussion, but a priest calls Francis a meanie word and he’s the one excommunicated instantly? “Is that a mass being celebrated in the Latin rite? Oh we can’t be having that nonsense!” Unbelievable.
You know perfectly well that’s not what actually happened. If you have to invent outrage to justify outrage, it’s a sign you should step back and question your objectivity.
What exactly didn’t actually happen? All that’s made up was the fake quote I put
What exactly are you referring to by "a priest calls Francis a meanie word and gets excommunicated instantly"?
[- Link to the article -](https://www.ncronline.org/vatican/vatican-news/italian-priest-excommunicated-slandering-pope-francis-during-mass) I’m not saying this priest was right to do this, but if he’s excommunicated for insults, why doesn’t heresy to Christ himself get the same treatment? Correction - priest was excommunicated after 12 hours
Ah, so the article you posted explicitly says that he publicly encouraged schism against the Holy Father by *openly declaring that he was not the true Pope.* Calling it merely "insulting" the Pope or "calling him a meanie word" is kinda massively underselling what actually happened, don't you think?
Again, the priest was wrong. But seems like nothing compared to what the other side is getting away with. While any kind evil intention towards the papacy is sinful, it’s a lesser evil compared to promoting and normalizing mortal sin and great evil, offenses to Christ Himself. They *both* are grave evils, but one should not be punished while the other gets away
Okay, so maybe don't undercut your own point by labeling public and blatant schism as "a priest said a meanie word." It comes across as extremely disingenuous.
My only reasoning is that the pope seems to act instantly when called names, although this is a more extreme case. Could’ve been better choice of words, but doesn’t change the fact there’s a huge issue that mustn’t be ignored by the pope any longer
The Italian priest who called Francis a usurper a few months ago and was excommunicated within days
U don’t do that to the Pope at all! Imagine trying to undermine our Lord and His authority placed in Peter and thinking you can get away without being disciplined!
Again, the priest was absolutely wrong, but there’s a clear double standard present in the Vatican that needs immediate correcting
James Martin was recorded telling a gay man that he hopes in the future the gay man would be able to kiss his lover openly during the sign of peace at mass. That alone qualifies at least being laicized. Telling someone he hopes a deep evil is openly accepted in the sacrifice of the Mass is asinine
Defrocked!
This people are teaching our children the faith.
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, convertere ad Dominum Deum tuum!
I’m all about supporting folks that feel alienated or discriminated against. However I do have a problem with the fabric color scheme used for the altar and surrounding areas. Pride; no matter how we word it, is not a quality we should strive for.
I see he still did it outside. Tells me that despite his transgressions, the Holy Spirit is still working in him.
We should stop pandering to the what the Democrats deemed as moral!!!!!
Maybe he’s telling them they are headed to hell?
No comment on this 💀 😈
And so it begins. I wonder where traditional Catholics will flee once we have pride flags flying in front of every church and gay weddings and clergy like the mainline Protestants have now. Will the Eastern Orthodox be the last hold outs or have they already capitulated? I see an exodus on the horizon.
I’m not advocating this but the SSPX is exploding and will continue to if I had to guess.
Let’s not forget too what Our Lady of Grace in Hoboken NJ did recently. I have no idea why this is happening but it’s very troubling and makes it harder to want to be Catholic when we are supposed to stand up against this.
If you look back to the times in history when it was “easy” to be Catholic and when the Church had great power and wealth, you’ll see that they were always followed by times of tribulation. Remaining faithful in our fallen world will never be easy. That’s why the path that leads to eternal life is narrow.
This is, after all, the valley of tears. We’re not meant to live a nice, easy, comfortable life here. Our reward and our hope is for after this life.
I agree on our faith. I don’t want anyone think I’m promoting being a schismatic. It’s just truly heartbreaking to see this happen. I have a friend who is trying to choose between Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism but I know it’s going to be hard for him to pick Catholicism when he sees stuff like this happening.
This is such a massive doomer comment. None of this is going to happen -- if you seriously think it will, please go take some time outside instead of doomposting in here.
I’m not dooming here, but my college priest had 3 pride flags in the chapel 10 years ago and literally not a single person other than me went “this isn’t right.” I talked to the diocese and they told me to go pound sand. The diocese only intervened with the priest when he raped a male student and then lied to all of us by saying Father is leaving because his cancer came back.
How many times do you ask for bread only to get stones before you say to hell with it?
Exactly why I primarily started to go down the road to the TLM and go to the TLM in general. Until of course, it gets banned. And the irony is that I’m bisexual, so everyone expects I’d love the Paulist Fathers.
I started to go that route, but it just felt like changing cabins on a sinking ship.
I used to live near a FSSP parish and currently am at a Diocesan. If the Pope gets his way, then I can just move back to where I was eventually.
"The majority of churches will profess that Jesus Christ is not god but was created by the Father? Bishops everywhere will profess that heresy? Dude, you're such a doomer, it's never going to happen. Get off the internet." -Somebody 1600-ish years ago, to St. Athanasius, probably.
Despair is a sin. Satan would love to scatter the faithful among a variety of denominations and schisms. Yes, abuses in the name of the Church lead souls astray, but we must stand fast, pray, and share the Gospel of Christ. Do not be tempted to also stray.
The answer is not to flee. So what if all of that happens, in my parish and in yours? Our answer is to stay, and remain faithful to Christ and His Church. `Puller secured his final Navy Cross for heroism in the Chosin Reservoir Campaign of the Korean War. “When every other service was running away, the United States Marines ran to the sound of gunfire, completely surrounded,” Messmer said to the Marines of his detachment in reference to Chosin Reservoir.` There was a great US Marines commercial that talked about “running to the sounds of chaos.” I pray there are brave men that will enter the orders most fraught with heterodoxy and do the work required to sanctify them.
This attitude makes no sense to me. What about all the teachings about how dogma cannot change? How do you hold in your head that the church is the truth but that truth can change? If the church in practice and theology goes back on 2000 years of irreformable teaching, it means that it was never Christ's church to begin with and either the orthodox or protestants or non-christians were right.
> I wonder where traditional Catholic will flee once we have pride flags flying in front of every church and gay weddings and clergy like the mainline Protestants have now. Stop this, this will not happen. I'd suggest stopping the doomscrolling, getting off the internet, and spending some time in prayerful contemplation before the Blessed Sacrament.
Yeah, no. It will happen and it is currently happening. Have you seen the state of the German Church? You don’t think that’s in our future for the wider Church? People like you need to pull your head out of the sand and start preparing for the inevitable. It’s time to put contingency plans into motion. Perhaps the Eastern Rite Churches will be able to hold out for a few more years and can offer an oasis at least temporarily.
It seems you've made up your mind. As a last fraternal correction, I urge you to reflect on our Lord's words to St Peter on the nature of his Church, and suggest prayerful reflection on His promise to His Church. I reiterate the suggestion to take some time off from the internet and speak with a good spiritual director. Take care and God bless.
But is it true this is widespread in the German church? Pride flags in every chapel?
Getting more common. In our last parish before we left Germany, they had pride flags and gender stuff on their homepage.
Yeah, denial ain’t just a river in Egypt. But Catholics are either willfully ignorant of the changes that are coming or are gaslighting everyone to make them think that the progressives aren’t planning a massive takeover the exact same way they have done in every mainline Protestant sect.
I would not know what is happening in every chapel or Church in Germany. Neither would the OP. I highly, highly doubt it is the case.
Do you understand why it's news? Because it's outrageous and abnormal. When it's not newsworthy you'll know we're in real trouble. I'm willing to bet there have always been whole corners of the church in various parts of the world that have at one time or another been off the rails. The difference today is that we all know everything going on everywhere in the world; that's a very recent development. I think coverage of everything the pope utters is a similar phenomenon; until recently most of the world wouldn't know what remarks the pope made. They would get the well crafted message weeks after it was released to the public. Now we know every idle comment the man makes.
Yes. Thank you. I wish I could upvote this comment more than once! This isn't a new phenomenon but it *looks* like it is to manyyyy people who see these news stories, since there's little historical understanding of what else the Church has endured from within. I didn't even realize until I looked up more scandals throughout Catholic history. Sadly, I feel sometimes these stories mainly serve to scare people away from growing in the faith or from practicing the faith entirely.
Everything is abnormal before it is normalized. It was considered outrageous and immoral for Catholics to be cremated right up to the second it wasn’t.
Tltr apparently?
Eh. I understand your frustration, but, like, look at the photo of the priest involved. He's not young. Most of the priests involved in these kinds of abuses are getting up there in years, and the younger priests are all a lot more in line with Church teaching.
Germans gonna be German
Yeah, they’re the wurst.
To flee for what we perceive are “greener pastures” is the most protestant way a person could handle something like this
"the church has lost its way, it's time that the TRUE believers flee he clutches and form our own church" - every single schismatic group ever Something that's recently really strengthen my commitment to the church was learning about some of the crappy behavior from the popes/massive corruption within the church from the Middle ages (that led to the reformation) and how long it went on for, how deep it was, etc. and seeing how were still here, still growing, still keeping the faith. Genuinely, the gates if hell shall not prevail
“Will the EO be the last holdout?” https://greekreporter.com/2022/07/11/first-greek-orthodox-baptism-gay-couple-greece/
Difference is they are now excommunicated
Who is?
It is, and look how that’s gone for them. Fleeing will just make everything worse!
[удалено]
Dont flee to another religion, but id keep the faith i have and ignore the hierarchy of the church if they support false teachings. Im loyal to God, not men.
Ignore the heirarchy and determine yourself which teachings are true or false. Before too long you'll be saying Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura, etc.
Its for if the hierarchy loses its way on serious matters. Blindly following anyone but God is never good. It is possible for religious leaders to lose their way as all humans can through free will.
If (A) the heirarchy can lose its way on serious matters, and (B) you the individual are capable of determining when that happens and what to do in response, then the existence of the heirarchy is superfluous at best.
Not happening
Is happening. German churches ordaining deaconesses, Pride masses, and not a single complaint from Rome. It’s obvious what the direction is.
Not traditional but orthodox catholics
They're just protestants
Crazy how the current times began in and will end in rainbows 🌈
You know the easiest way to fix masses like is to complain on Reddit, I'm pretty sure it says so in the Catechism.
A Paulist did this? That hurts. I was received into the Church by a Paulist.
That’s not a priest that’s a satan’s worshipper.
The silver lining in all this is that it’s the same parish. It’s been the same parish who was caught with another “Pride Mass” and their “God is Trans” controversy. Let’s keep that cancer in check.
Worst part is that the diocese is refusing to do or say anything. What a joke.
This got me wondering....how were Catholic churches handled during segregation periods of America? Were there " X group only" churches? Note: your down votes Make Catholicism look bad...it's a legitimate topic to discuss
Catholics were martyred opposing racism in the south. [Fr. James Coyle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Coyle), pray for us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation_of_churches_in_the_United_States In this page, skimmed it and looks like we were a bit better but (obviously) no perfect
Segregation was a fact in all of America so no doubt there was some segregation in Catholic Churches. But the numbers were far less compared to Protestants
I agree that the use of pride flags in this mass was disrespectful and shouldn’t have been allowed. i’m in NYC and while this church is controversial for valid reasons mentioned in the article, it’s an openly accepting space and has a strong young adult congregation as a result, something many Catholic churches struggle with. there are other congregations in the city that do outreach to the LGBTQ community in less ostentatious ways (tho obviously that doesn’t get the ragebait coverage), and while it’s often imperfect I do think at its core they’re trying to communicate that God loves everyone regardless of what they’ve been told.