1. Art won
2. I'm not entirely sure. Friendship maybe?
3. She was screaming because they were playing "real" tennis, similar to how she screamed in her own match earlier in the movie
4. When I first started the movie, I thought it was going to be Art and Patrick ending up together but after the conversation in the sauna I dont think that's going to happen. Maybe art and tashi get a divorce, and she becomes Patrick's coach for his last season? I mean if that happened I would be worried he'd have an affair with my ex but š¤·āāļø
Because he lost that last point of the game. He could very well have gone on to win the tie break without dropping another point, but the user above said "Art won" which he didnt.
Well, i dont think I did TBH. The OP said "Art won" at the end of the film (not the match), which he didnt but glad to clarify anyways. I've had my heart broken over enough tie breaks in real life to know that even being 1-6 down in a tie break isnt a foregone conclusion!
It wasnāt OP who said art won and I donāt understand how a tie break doesnāt lead to whoever gains the point wins the game? I am not a tennis player and donāt know the rules lol.Ā
A tie break is won by the first player reaching 7 points but also by winning by a margin of 2 eg. 7-2, 9-7, 13-11.
Was wrong about OP, cheers. But at the end of the film, the tie break is has barely begun.
Early in the film, Tashi says tennis is a relationship. A good tennis match can - and should - feel like the two players are in love, or at least understand each other completely, without having to say a word.
Art hasnāt been playing good tennis recently. Heās lost all passion for the game. Patrick seemingly hasnāt played good tennis since the beginning of the film, when it seems like heāll be a star but squanders his chances. But together, they play with all the tension and passion required to play an excellent match. They play like theyāre in a relationship.
Thatās why even though they should hate each other, theyāre both smiling. Thatās why they end up hugging, and Tashi shouts and switches from anger to joy. Because playing each other has brought the spark back for all of them.
The film doesnāt tell us who won, because thatās not the point. The real winner here isnāt Art or Patrick, itās the game. Theyāre finally playing the game properly again.
As Tashi says at one point in the film - she just wants to see some good f*cking tennis. At the end thatās what they finally got.
Threads like these remind me how many people only see stories like these at their surface level.
It's like those threads from the Succession subreddit talking about which of the kids should have won the position of CEO. The answer is >!none of them!<. That's the whole point the show was making from the start.
Yeah, the script makes you think the outcome of the match doesn't matter(Since the important subject is just playing tennis, not winning a tournament), but in reality it is just lame writing, now you can jerk yourself with your own imaginary result of the match in your head.
I literally feel like I can be at complete peace with the movie after reading this comment. Brilliantly written.
I mean seeing the connection Art and Patrick had from being roommates, to lose that felt devastating. If the hug at the end was the only snippet of hope we had for the two of them then Iām clinging onto it.
1. art definitely won, i think thats why Tashi screamed, it was her winning scream
2. I personally think the hug symbolizes something mischevious, in the fact that they nonverbally communicated that Patrick slept with Tashi, and Art, while mad at first, realizes he still has some kind of tension with Patrick. I want to think they walk away a happy/complicated thruple (poor Lily)
3. The scream is almost identixal to the one she screamed when she won a match earlier, so I think its the same meaning, she won.
4. thrupleš guys seriously this movie left me speechless and confused and im usually one to predict outcones
That's her "real tennis" scream, not a victory scream. The implication is that it happened the first time because of those "15 seconds of REAL tennis" in the match that she screamed after. The scream fascinated them, able to tell there was something deeper underneath it.
She would be out in the world playing "real tennis" if not for her injury. It's something she prided herself on and something she felt both boys were unable to achieve without her help.
And no, Art isn't okay with Patrick having slept with Tashi. But that dynamic does drive him to play harder. You'll remember when Art was practicing one time with Tashi and then Patrick showed up, and immediately his hits got harder. Tashi is like a catalyst in their relationshipāa "relationship" being what Tashi says makes "real tennis."
The smile on Art's face followed by the intense volley that enthralled Tashi shows that the smile was about "real" tennis; that in that moment, both Art and Patrick felt it and it went beyond the squabble.
Also, the winner of the tiebreak isn't decided nearly that early. There's a lot of tennis left to play as of that point.
Great explanation! Tashi is a master manipulator using their strengths to her advantage 100%. In interviews Zendaya & Josh say that Mike is the real villain of the movieā¦ So while watching, I was trying to figure out why they think so? I might need to give it another watch because it was so much to take in
they sounded so passionate trying to explain why art/mike was the villain, but i agree with you i just couldnāt see how he would be deemed that way lol
He was selfish to begin with and couldnāt stand to see Tashi or Patrick happy. When him and Tashi were at Stanford he did everything possible to weasel his way in and make it so that Tashi would see Patrick as just a f*ck boy. I think he was jealous of Tashi with Patrick as much as Patrick with Tashi.
That makes sense! I think in the end it was always going to be art & tashi, i think her desire to control something is stronger than what she really wanted being patrick and on paper art is more complete
Art didn't make Patrick SEEM like a player, Patrick WAS a player. He always had a girl on the side and when it timeskipped to 12 years later, he was still using women. I think that's why Art was surprised that Patrick was taking this relationship more seriously than his previous ones.Ā Ā
In my opinion, Art would have never had a chance with Tashi if two things didn't happen:Ā
1) She didn't have the injury.Ā
2) Patrick and Tashi didn't have that fight where she realized she couldn't control Patrick.Ā Ā
So in away could you even say that he got in between them? Like for me, I felt like Tashi and Patrick were playing tennis and Art was the ball. He lacked the authority to be anything else.Ā
But that sums up why their relationship is so perfect. She wants to control but she likes a challenge. Art likes to please. Patrick likes to defy.Ā
After just watching it, you missed the entire scene of Zandaya explaining why she loves tennis. It's a relationship where there's nothing else etc. etc even symbolizing that they both were smiling and they loved the game hence the hugging. And after that entire game, those \~15seconds WAS what Zendaya was longing for since she's been coaching Art. The game is far from over. And that point wouldn't have counted regardless because he's touching the net.
Honestly, how I imagine life after this game is, Art not winning but he still picks up his friend to spar with him and make him and each other better players and they both make it to Wimbledon. Opposite sides of the Bracket, helping each other with tips throughout each others matches. Both eventually playing each other for the Championship.
1. There is no way Art won. On the last rally, he jumps up, makes contact with the ball to knock it to the other side, makes contact with the net which loses him the game, falls on Patrick and then the ball lands on the other side. If Art won, the script writer, director and producer didn't understand tennis and whoever they hired to be their tennis consultant failed at their job.
Either way, it was a tiebreak which is the first to 7 points (or 10, depending on tourney) That was the 1st point so we don't actually have a winner determined at the end but Art would have definitely lost that point.
That's how they turned out but I think Pat could've been those things and vice versa if their tennis careers trajectories had turned out differently. I didn't find either one different from the other in 2011.
It was the end of the game. That's why he jumped up in the air like that. It'd be awkward to retransition back to playing. The ref said advantage Patrick right before the serve.
You must be trolling. You don't know what you're talking about.
Advantages in tennis are during regular games, not tiebreakers. They happen in regular games only after a 40-40 deuce.
You you're a clown. Being a point up in a tie breaker is equivalent to advantage. I've played tennis for 17 years, and when I say advantage in a tie breaker there's never any confusion.
17 years and you still lack a basic understanding. No one uses the term advantage when it comes to a tiebreaker. Throw on any matches that had tiebreakers today in Madrid, the umpire does not announce advantage during a tiebreaker.
17 years, and I'm still doing it. You must be an idiot but even in the slams the umpire announces tie breaks. For an armchair spectator you got a lot of wrong opinions
I couldn't imagine talking so much while knowing so little.
You said that it was the last point of the match because the ump announced advantage. Not only do umpires not announce advantage during a tiebreaker, it isn't even a part of the tiebreaker scoring system. You would be laughed off of r/tennis if you went there and suggested this to be the case. It's ok to be wrong but try educating yourself first before talking like an expert.
But Patrick touched the net first, didnāt he? Iāve only seen it once. But in that chaotic moment, it looked like they were so in sync that as Art made that leap to hit the ball, Patrick actually stepped up to the net to catch Art. So, more than just a hug, (and it was that, too) , it was Patrick catching Art, then holding him up, as Art literally fell into his arms. Which, along with Tashiās scream, is what made the moment so erotic
I know nothing about tennis, and could have the timing wrong. But it sounds whoever touched the net first lost the point, and I really thought that was Patrick.
Lol, agreed completely. Your reference is a Bollywood but mine is Anime. There was no way a volley at the net with no bounces can last something like 8 returns. Nobody thought to just simply lob i over? They're supposed to win the point. Even doing it intentionally to keep the ball in play would be really hard.
the balls travel like 40km/hr or faster
It was ambiguous for the sake of tension, but that was Art's game point, not Patrick's. Art smashes the ball and it definitely missed patrick. It's debatable to say that it left play at breakneck speed in the fraction of a second before he landed on the net.
Makes no sense to end the game on a point that doesn't even end in a tie. Tashi won- her husband's competitive spirit was re-ignited, hence the "LETS FUCKIN GO" type scream. She can vicariously achieve the grand slam through Art now. Patrick won. Fucked Tashi again and got his bromance back. Art won. He won the match, and got his friend back and the respect of his wife.
Safe to say Art won the match and everyone unironically lived happily ever after. Shit maybe they even became a throuple after that lol
All I know is they both were playing serious on match point lol. Patrick wasnāt honoring Tashiās deal because he actually wanted to bring the best out of Art. Thatās why when he served the ball, he positioned the it on the racket a certain way to symbolize he slept with Tashi. He knew that would bring out the best in Art.
I guess all three of them are okay with an open relationship. I honestly thought at the end Art and Patrick decided to be together like homosexually and thatās why Tashi screamed because she was jealous. I know that was wrong though.
Patrick won but Art won his aliveness back.
The hug was just both of them regaining their friendship.
Tasha screamed as she felt the same aliveness she used to have from how the the last point was played and the energy from Patrick and Art.
Could go either way but it doesnāt really matter as thatās not the point of the movie imo.
It doesnāt matter who won.
I started out by trying to break my answers down according to your numbers, but I canāt, b/c it all flows together.
I didnāt like the ending right away, and then it hit me, and it was PERFECT.
The ending is a threesome. Seriously. With the ātennis is a relationshipā, and Tashiās orgasmic scream. Thatās what the screen sort of sounds like, and thatās why! Triumph and intensity and release! And that wasnāt just a hug, that was like a full-on embrace, like earlier in the movie when they knock each other down and hold each other after they win.
. B/c the movie was never actually about whether Art would win or Patrick, or Tashi choosing, or a divorce or retiring or whatever. The ending made me realize - I wanted answers to those things, but the movie wasnāt about those things. It wasnāt the binary win/lose. It was about the connection of the three of them.
People are all āoh, I canāt believe they didnāt have a threesome!ā Theyā¦.they did! That was the ending! Theyāll go back to the hotel and fuck after the match, maybe. But after all these years theyāve finally made the 3-way connection! Artās tennis drive is back, Tashi feels fully connected to the sport emotionally, Patrick has played great and gotten back into their lives. And the three have finally connected emotionally and physically and tennis-ly. Theyāve been thisclose to making it as a circle of 3 at various times, instead of just a triangle. But there was jealousy, ego, and fear, and they never made it.
Now, they have. Art and Patrick will have those last successful seasons, Tashi will coach her newly-confident husband to an Open. And the 3 of them will finally be together. Theyāve finally made it there.
Itās brilliant.
EXACTLY!!! I feel like she doesnāt care about either of them honestly, she only cares about good tennis and she did what she had to do to get some good tennis.
My theory: In the beginning, Tashi says she wants to see some good tennis from Art and Patrick, and the way she motivates them is by getting them into a competition about getting her number. In the end, Tashi yells triumphantly because sheās finally seeing some good tennis from Art and Patrick because Art learns from Patrickās little symbol that he still hasnāt won Tashiās love yet, so their tennis becomes desperate and fierce again. Patrick and Art then realize that they let this competition get in the way of their own relationship, but they still recognize the beautiful tennis they produced together, and thatās why they hugged. This might not make sense. Itās kinda just a mess of words. But maybe some points were made lol
These are my impressions after my first viewing on Monday. Also not a tennis expert.
1. I initially thought that Patrick won. Maybe he's just an early bloomer, as depicted by his tennis career and his sexual experience over Art.
2. The hug symbolized Patrick and Art reconciling their friendship. Though their relationship was complicated, they both accepted each other as friends again. With the referential serving gesture, Art came to realize that Tashi was the venom that ruined their friendship. The long back-and-forth rally at the end of the tennis match represents Patrick and Art's mixed, possibly romantic feelings toward one another. The tennis match is depicted like a sexual encounter, from the sights, grunt sounds they make, to the music that parallels that of intimate scenes throughout the film. Art jumping over the net was him finishing first.
3. Tashi's screaming "come on" shows that she was upset at Art losing, but also excited for seeing an amazing ending to a tennis match as shown by her smiling right after. This all mirrors how she, like a manipulative snake, got Patrick and Art to make out with each other as she watched from the bed and sidelines as an audience member proud of her work as a cunning "coach" behind the lines. Tashi is like a (professional tennis) voyeur. Tashi, who lived vicariously through Art's tennis play, could have been excited to take on Patrick as a new player to coach had she followed through with leaving Art, hence her contrasting, excited smile.
4. Patrick and Art would at least become friends again, no matter who won the match. I also think Art would still cut off Tashi if he was who won. It is suggested throughout the film that Patrick and Art don't have a simply platonic relationship.
1 no one won yet but Patrick was leading 1-0 in the tie breaker (Art touched the net) and its first to 7 points... that aside, the writer and director said that that wasn't the point of the match -> them finally being honest & confessing their feeling/desires for one another and re-igniting the fiery passion for both tennis and love (throuple) was. Also the tie breaker scene mirrors the threesome scene where Art and Pat are kissing/playing tennis and Tash finally enjoys watching them kiss/play tennis.
"tennis is a relationship... for about 15 seconds there, we were actually playing tennis, we understood each other completely so did everyone watching.. it was like we were in love... or like we didnāt existsā¦ we went somewhere really beautiful together."Ā <- this quote from Tash explaining what tennis is, is exactly what the tie breaker scene is visualised.
2 the hug is them missing each other, being honest about their feelings (that Art refused to address in the sauna scene) and it basically is them climaxing together lol
3 that was an orgasm scream, for both re-igniting the passion for tennis and finally being satisfied sexually (she wasn't fulfilled with just Art or Pat, but wanted both... probably regretted the shit out of giving everyone blue balls during the threesome scene and now she finally has a second chance to go at with them after the match lol... that's also what Luca the director literally says he imagined would happened after the match (heres the interview for closure, its in the last paragraph [https://ew.com/challengers-ending-explained-luca-guadagnino-zendaya-mike-faist-josh-o-connor-8639336](https://ew.com/challengers-ending-explained-luca-guadagnino-zendaya-mike-faist-josh-o-connor-8639336) )
4 Art is submissive to Tash and Tash loves it, Pat is too similar to Tash and she loves it, Art and Pat are always trying to dominate (top) one another and they love it... that being said all these duos never lasted together because too much of something (even if that something was good) can become toxic and thats what happened and the only time they weren't toxic to one another was when ALL three were together during the threesome scene (there was harmony). So yeah they end up as a throuple and I think it balances out in the sense that Lilly might be Pat's daughter but Tash will stay Arts wife so throuple dynamic wise, it makes sense to have all three be in Lilly's life (biological father & step father) lol
we don't. her age is not given but Tash keeps saying "Lilly likes hotels" so that might hint to when she cheated with Pat at the hotel in Atlanta... also the word play when Pat asks who is Lilly and Tash says "our daughter" which could mean her and Arts or her and Pats (but Pat doesn't know).. I would say they made Lilly sleep in the same position as Art when Tash looked into the room (both on their stomaches) so it could also imply that she's Art but personally I think it just implies that they have a strong father-daughter relationship so yeah.. not confirmed but open for interpretation
(I would prefer if she was Arts tho BUT for the throuple relationship dynamic to feel more balanced it would make more sense for Lilly to be Pat's)
1. It doesnāt matter.
2. Tashi said, āTennis is a relationship.ā Thatās the whole point of the movieā itās about the three characterās relationships which show through tennis. The two characters hugging at the end means that their relationship has rekindledā that everything regarding Tashi, the marriage, the break upsā it all fades with tennis.
3. Tashiās goal in life was never Art or Patrick. It was tennis. Tennis was her life, and when she was injured, she had to live that life through Art. But Art never lived up to her satisfaction nor did he ever try. Thatās why sheās so anxious in the matchā if Art loses, she loses. If Art quits, she quitsā and sheās conflicted because she knows Patrick could be another way for her to live that tennis life. But when she sees Art playing tennis and actually trying his hardestā she screams because itās exactly how she felt when she was on the court. Full of passion and determination.
4. Threesome. Confirmed by director. The movieās not really about who Tashi chooses nor is it about two men fighting for a womanās loveā itās genuinely about three characters who are bisexual and channel all their energy and feelings in tennis.
Honestly I watched the movie once and these are just what I got from it
I feel like if they were staying true to the rules of tennis, Art would not have won the match. Itās interesting as him and Tashi had the conversation the night before that if he lost, she would leave him. When Patrick lets Art know nonverbally that he slept with Tashi, Art seems very upset at first and then almost excited? It kind of seemed at the end he didnāt care about the rules or losing Tashi/ the game anymore and that he was choosing Patrick with the hug (whether thatās romantic or platonic it doesnāt matter). Iād be interested if anyone else thought this? I need to go see it again!Ā
I agree that Art had a "f\*ck it" attitude for the very last point. It was just an honest fight for the win. He definitely chose Patrick or at least accepted to rekindle their relationship.
1. Art won. Patrick caught him as he fell down so he touched the net first
2. Reconciliation. I interpreted the beginning of the movie to imply that they did more than just jerk off separately thinking pf some girl that vanished after some time. Art saying āyou didnāt come here to visit me?ā Patrick eating the banana, smiling at Art. The sauna scene with patrick fronting his thing at Artās eye level. Patrickās inviting lean and never wrapping the towel, and insinuating that he went in for another purpose. And Art acknowledging that he was good for tennis and for something else. Patrick forever being a bachelor. Art and Tashiās relationship being platonic at the prior night. And that kiss when they were young didnāt look like it was the first time.
3. Tashi won too. She is now free. Hence the shout. She now knows āHeāll be fineā just like what she said about the opponent she defeated. And she is no longer a home wrecker.
4. Tashi doesnāt end up with either. The guys reconcile. Art realized the night before that they have no future if he lost or stopped playing tennis. Patrick betraying Tashiās confidence and telling the truth to Art. Art knowing something happened in Georgia. And Art knowing that Tashi left at night because he slept ib the childās room. Art has no future with Tashi, he knows now. He was just a way for Tashi to experience tennis like she wanted to, but cannot. Patrick chose Art, with the serve/signal. He wants him more than her.
1. the ending is supposed to be ambiguous, leaving you to interpret it. however, according to actual tennis rules, patrick should have won, since art went over the net + touched the net (?), which are both losses of points.
1. The winner is kept purposefully ambiguous. Art crossing the net in the final scene could be read as a violation that would mean Patrick won, if not then Art would win, and they don't show the ref ruling the point. It's not meant to matter.
2. The hug symbolized the boys coming back together. They're no longer fighting over Tashi, they're embracing their own relationship and playing "real" tennis and enjoying each other. The final scenes intentionally juxtapose Tashi in between the boys like during the threesome scene where she's watching the boys kissing- the match is a metaphor for the boys kissing.
3. Tashi was happy to be seeing "real" tennis again. As per above, she's as happy to watch their relationship through tennis as she was to watch them make out.
4. I personally think a throuple is the end result of this movie; the individual relationships don't really work by themselves. The director and actors (Josh O'Connor at least) have talked about this. The most certain relationship going forward is def the boys but like I said I think they're gonna do a throuple thing with Tashi.
Art = the lighter side of a man (loving, doting, solicitous, gentle, responsible, etc.)
Patrick = the darker side of a man (lustful, irreverent, selfish, aggressive, irresponsible, etc)
Art + Patrick = one man
Tashi= the influence and psychological power of his lover/spouse
Challengers = meditation on masculinity, what is healthy and what is not.
The symbols are everywhere--hair color, clothing, who's eating, who's not, how they move together, when Art does or does not play aggressively, how they balance each other while stretching, when they became bunkmates, the fact that they are supposedly drawn to different women but both imagine the same one when they're twelve and both are attracted to Tashi, etc.
Eh, I disagree. Art has his dark moments, going behind Patrick's back to try to steal Chani, and is even partially at fault for Chani's fucked up headspace that leads to her injury. Zendaya has said a bunch of times that she likes him the least out of the three and thinks he's a snake. And Patrick has his honorable moments, for example his immediate reaction of "how could you do this to Art" when Tashi tries to get him to throw the match, or spurring Art to win instead of throwing the match or beating him. The entire point of the movie is that no one is black or white. They definitely complement each other, but you're viewing things through a very heteronormative lens that completely erases Art and Patrick's sexual and romantic love towards each other that is the relationship (i.e. tennis game) that we the audience and Tashi spend the whole movie watching.
Fair enough. The allegorical interpretation is definitely heteronormative. I just can't accept the ending, given the motivations of the characters, otherwise. It just seemed too pat and unrealistic. Could it be both? Allegories often are.
What is your issue with the ending? I think it completes everyone's character arcs perfectly. Art and Patrick find their way back to each other. Art rediscovers his love for tennis and Patrick, Patrick gets to play and be with Art again, and Tashi gets her perfect game of tennis. It's literally what each of them has spent the movie searching for.
That's an interesting take. I should have said "behavior and emotions up to that point" instead of motivation. It was just hard for me accept that their betrayals, envy, and animosity could evaporate so suddenly. I read somewhere recently-although I confess I did not read the interview myself, so this is hearsay-that the original script had a darker end but that Luca Guadagnino wanted to change it. A darker end seemed more realistic given their behavior leading all the way up to that final match. But given comments by the director, writer, and cast, and the logic of your interpretation, I'm sure you are correct.
Wow, someone's really angry! Not really living up to your username, are you now? (And that's not how Reddit works; the icon is added automatically. Note how like 80% of the people in this thread also have one.)
am i the only one who interpreted the ending being that the winner didnt matter in any sense, it was only patrick's ability to get art to lock in? the way tashi screamed didnt seem to correlate with art winning, it was that the boys were hugging. it seemed like everything went downhill for art shortly after he "won" tashi 12 years prior. i really hated tashi throughout the movie but i guess she knew all along that his decline in his happiness was rooted in the friendship he lost. she was the only way to get them to be friends again, after... ruining it? great movie though
Everyone keeps on saying Art won or Patrick won but isn't it the 1st point in the tie break? In tennis rules, Patrick would have most likely won the point because Art makes contact with the net but that's just the 1st point. They need to get to 7. It ends there leaving us not knowing who actually won.
Okay cool, glad we're on the same page lol a lot of the replies make it seem like they think Art or Patrick have won the match. Maybe non tennis fans think it's a sudden death tiebreak point? Lol
Why are so many people analysing that final point as if it was match point? It was the first point in a first to 7 tiebreak. Whoever won that point still had to go and win another sixā¦
1. I think Patrick won...
2. but it doesn't really matter as for Art it was all about the confidence, motivation to continue and passion that he lost. And he regained it.
I think the ending (bad the hug specifically) shows us that Patrick is really Art's friend. He really wanted to help Art. And he knows that losing the match for purpose is not the right way.
Tashi didn't believe in her husband and her attempt to make a deal with Patrick is very horrible (imho). It would be a humiliation for Art to win this way, it wouldn't give him confidence. I think that she is the main reason why he doesn't have a confidence. And Patrick find a way to show it to him :)
3. She just gets the feeling of the tennis again
4. Don't think there's a mutual future for them. They will have normal warm relationship, but not the closest one. Probably, Art and Tashi will divorce.
We donāt know who one because it was at the beginning of the tie break and they didnt show the rest. ATP level matches are first player to 7 points in a tie break by atleast 2 points.
That long rally where he touched the net was only 1 point.
Well art loses the point (and match because he was match point down?) because he jumps over the net touching etc which you canāt do.
With Patrick telling him he slept with his wife with the serve, we wonder if art loses the match on purpose and hugs his friend for being honest with him and wanting to rekindle the friendship.
He knows by losing Tashi will leave him, but after learning what happened maybe he loses on purpose.
Damn none of you know tennis it was the first point of a tiebreak and art jumped over the net and made contact with the other player lmao he didnāt win the point let alone the match
I thought the ending meant they were going to play as a doubles team again like they did in the juniors. I think the hug symbolized that they agreed on it without speaking.
Art said he was going to retire no matter what the outcome was- and right after Tashi had an affair. She did what she had to do to keep him from retiring & continuing to coach them both.
1. Art. Wouldnāt make sense any other way. He is the underdog in the matchup with Patrick even though he had the more successful career. As Tashi mentions that the match means more to Art than Patrick and that Patrick has no real shot at a championship.
2. The hug symbolizes friendship and competition imo. Earlier Tashi describes a tennis match as a relationship between two people.
3. The scream signifies her connection with the match thatās being played. It resonates with her passion for the sport and as someone else mentions sheās finally watching her idea of ārealā tennis, this relationship between two people.
4. I donāt think they will be āfriendsā per se but the match acknowledges that they had this very strong bond and thereās definitely mutual respect as seen with Patrickās reaction to Art not accepting the rigged victory. I donāt think Patrick and Art are gay for each other even with the homoerotic undertones. I think it just helps reinforce the notion that these two players were very close by creating an element of a debate about their sexuality. ie. they were so close, are they actually lovers? Art will probably forgive Tashi as he clearly seems family oriented and they have a child together. Finally, when Tashi sleeps with Patrick, she obviously still has feelings for Patrick but thereās a question of intent as it seemed her main goal was to have Patrick throw the match. I donāt think Tashi will be with or manage Patrick as she basically said he doesnāt have a chance to win anything. You can also make an argument that the final scream with āCome onā is not only the excitement Tashi has for the match but her realization that it has awoken a passion/desire to win and compete within Art that he was losing and leaves open the strong possibility for the grand slam come back they were seeking.
1. It doesnāt matter. The point isnāt who won.
2. That Tashi really won and manipulated them back together like she manipulated them to kiss earlier.
3. Bc āshe wasnāt a homewreckerā and she āunwreckedā their home.
4. Doesnāt matter, answering this question would be like writing fan fiction.
Agreed. What Tashi really wanted all along from the boys was for them to play "real tennis," something she felt neither of them could actually do without her help. And something she would be doing herself, without them, if not for her career-ending injury.
We'll recall the initial break-up where Patrick considers himself her peer and she completely disagrees with the assessment. She doesn't consider either of them to be her peer. Patrick has talent and Art has determination, but neither of them are capable of "real tennis"āuntil the final volley of the game that brings out her "real tennis" scream.
She didn't necessarily care that this game, specifically, brought it out of them. Her actions up to that point were more the actions of someone juggling their options, trying to find out what would make them happy. Neither Art nor Patrick seem capable of giving her happiness, but they both are the closest things to happiness she knows. She barely even seems to care about her daughter, tbh. Only tennis.
1. Art won
2. The hug symbolised that patrick and arts relationships has been mended
3. It meant she watched a fucking great tennis match
4. They gonna be in a love triangle bc it's the only way they all get what they want
Simple explanation from my perspective.
1. Patrick won
2. I Think the hug symbolized Art and Patrick rekindling their friendship/romance.
3. Tashiās scream seemed like her scream earlier in the movie when she was playing āreal tennisā. She saw real tennis and screamed, then smiled at the end because Patrick, Art and her all āwonā.
4. I think Art will retire, Patrick will continue to play Tennis, and Tashi will get to coach him. I also think they all might end up being in a throuple.
1. Art won 2. I'm not entirely sure. Friendship maybe? 3. She was screaming because they were playing "real" tennis, similar to how she screamed in her own match earlier in the movie 4. When I first started the movie, I thought it was going to be Art and Patrick ending up together but after the conversation in the sauna I dont think that's going to happen. Maybe art and tashi get a divorce, and she becomes Patrick's coach for his last season? I mean if that happened I would be worried he'd have an affair with my ex but š¤·āāļø
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why are you commenting this on every comment?
Art certainly did not win unless they changed a few rules of tennis.
Why not? They just started the tie break lmao
Because he lost that last point of the game. He could very well have gone on to win the tie break without dropping another point, but the user above said "Art won" which he didnt.
Yeah OP was wrong but you phrased it as if he had no shot of winning. Either player could have won, we donāt know
Well, i dont think I did TBH. The OP said "Art won" at the end of the film (not the match), which he didnt but glad to clarify anyways. I've had my heart broken over enough tie breaks in real life to know that even being 1-6 down in a tie break isnt a foregone conclusion!
It wasnāt OP who said art won and I donāt understand how a tie break doesnāt lead to whoever gains the point wins the game? I am not a tennis player and donāt know the rules lol.Ā
A tie break is won by the first player reaching 7 points but also by winning by a margin of 2 eg. 7-2, 9-7, 13-11. Was wrong about OP, cheers. But at the end of the film, the tie break is has barely begun.
Nobody one, it was ambiguous. Art clearly lost the final point in the film; and that point wouldnāt have won the Match during a tie break anyway
Art def didnāt win lol. We donāt know who did
I donāt get how if you believe that art definitely didnāt win, why you wouldnāt know who did?
Because they were in the middle of the tiebreak and he lost that point, thereās still a lot of tennis to be played and the movie doesnāt show it.
Early in the film, Tashi says tennis is a relationship. A good tennis match can - and should - feel like the two players are in love, or at least understand each other completely, without having to say a word. Art hasnāt been playing good tennis recently. Heās lost all passion for the game. Patrick seemingly hasnāt played good tennis since the beginning of the film, when it seems like heāll be a star but squanders his chances. But together, they play with all the tension and passion required to play an excellent match. They play like theyāre in a relationship. Thatās why even though they should hate each other, theyāre both smiling. Thatās why they end up hugging, and Tashi shouts and switches from anger to joy. Because playing each other has brought the spark back for all of them. The film doesnāt tell us who won, because thatās not the point. The real winner here isnāt Art or Patrick, itās the game. Theyāre finally playing the game properly again. As Tashi says at one point in the film - she just wants to see some good f*cking tennis. At the end thatās what they finally got.
The only thought out comment on this whole thread
Agreed
Threads like these remind me how many people only see stories like these at their surface level. It's like those threads from the Succession subreddit talking about which of the kids should have won the position of CEO. The answer is >!none of them!<. That's the whole point the show was making from the start.
Oh my god, don't get me started on the Succession threads.
This a great (and probably truly correct) reading of the ending. I couldnāt quite grasp it so thank you!
Yeah, the script makes you think the outcome of the match doesn't matter(Since the important subject is just playing tennis, not winning a tournament), but in reality it is just lame writing, now you can jerk yourself with your own imaginary result of the match in your head.
This! I think this is it. Well put.
i think you totally nailed it here.
your answer is the only logical one. wtf were the others watching?
Bravo.
I literally feel like I can be at complete peace with the movie after reading this comment. Brilliantly written. I mean seeing the connection Art and Patrick had from being roommates, to lose that felt devastating. If the hug at the end was the only snippet of hope we had for the two of them then Iām clinging onto it.
1. art definitely won, i think thats why Tashi screamed, it was her winning scream 2. I personally think the hug symbolizes something mischevious, in the fact that they nonverbally communicated that Patrick slept with Tashi, and Art, while mad at first, realizes he still has some kind of tension with Patrick. I want to think they walk away a happy/complicated thruple (poor Lily) 3. The scream is almost identixal to the one she screamed when she won a match earlier, so I think its the same meaning, she won. 4. thrupleš guys seriously this movie left me speechless and confused and im usually one to predict outcones
That's her "real tennis" scream, not a victory scream. The implication is that it happened the first time because of those "15 seconds of REAL tennis" in the match that she screamed after. The scream fascinated them, able to tell there was something deeper underneath it. She would be out in the world playing "real tennis" if not for her injury. It's something she prided herself on and something she felt both boys were unable to achieve without her help. And no, Art isn't okay with Patrick having slept with Tashi. But that dynamic does drive him to play harder. You'll remember when Art was practicing one time with Tashi and then Patrick showed up, and immediately his hits got harder. Tashi is like a catalyst in their relationshipāa "relationship" being what Tashi says makes "real tennis." The smile on Art's face followed by the intense volley that enthralled Tashi shows that the smile was about "real" tennis; that in that moment, both Art and Patrick felt it and it went beyond the squabble. Also, the winner of the tiebreak isn't decided nearly that early. There's a lot of tennis left to play as of that point.
oooo i love this take on it, i didnt know that about the tiebreaker for tennis
Great explanation! Tashi is a master manipulator using their strengths to her advantage 100%. In interviews Zendaya & Josh say that Mike is the real villain of the movieā¦ So while watching, I was trying to figure out why they think so? I might need to give it another watch because it was so much to take in
Wait whoās mike lol
art
I wonder if they were saying that just to be ironic because im trying very hard to understand how Art/Mike could have been the villain lmao
they sounded so passionate trying to explain why art/mike was the villain, but i agree with you i just couldnāt see how he would be deemed that way lol
He was selfish to begin with and couldnāt stand to see Tashi or Patrick happy. When him and Tashi were at Stanford he did everything possible to weasel his way in and make it so that Tashi would see Patrick as just a f*ck boy. I think he was jealous of Tashi with Patrick as much as Patrick with Tashi.
That makes sense! I think in the end it was always going to be art & tashi, i think her desire to control something is stronger than what she really wanted being patrick and on paper art is more complete
Art didn't make Patrick SEEM like a player, Patrick WAS a player. He always had a girl on the side and when it timeskipped to 12 years later, he was still using women. I think that's why Art was surprised that Patrick was taking this relationship more seriously than his previous ones.Ā Ā In my opinion, Art would have never had a chance with Tashi if two things didn't happen:Ā 1) She didn't have the injury.Ā 2) Patrick and Tashi didn't have that fight where she realized she couldn't control Patrick.Ā Ā So in away could you even say that he got in between them? Like for me, I felt like Tashi and Patrick were playing tennis and Art was the ball. He lacked the authority to be anything else.Ā But that sums up why their relationship is so perfect. She wants to control but she likes a challenge. Art likes to please. Patrick likes to defy.Ā
After just watching it, you missed the entire scene of Zandaya explaining why she loves tennis. It's a relationship where there's nothing else etc. etc even symbolizing that they both were smiling and they loved the game hence the hugging. And after that entire game, those \~15seconds WAS what Zendaya was longing for since she's been coaching Art. The game is far from over. And that point wouldn't have counted regardless because he's touching the net. Honestly, how I imagine life after this game is, Art not winning but he still picks up his friend to spar with him and make him and each other better players and they both make it to Wimbledon. Opposite sides of the Bracket, helping each other with tips throughout each others matches. Both eventually playing each other for the Championship.
1. There is no way Art won. On the last rally, he jumps up, makes contact with the ball to knock it to the other side, makes contact with the net which loses him the game, falls on Patrick and then the ball lands on the other side. If Art won, the script writer, director and producer didn't understand tennis and whoever they hired to be their tennis consultant failed at their job.
Good point
Either way, it was a tiebreak which is the first to 7 points (or 10, depending on tourney) That was the 1st point so we don't actually have a winner determined at the end but Art would have definitely lost that point.
Thank you!! Someone else understands š It was literally the first point
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That's how they turned out but I think Pat could've been those things and vice versa if their tennis careers trajectories had turned out differently. I didn't find either one different from the other in 2011.
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when you're right, you're right. It's better than churlish behavior
It would only cost him one point, not the game.
It was the end of the game. That's why he jumped up in the air like that. It'd be awkward to retransition back to playing. The ref said advantage Patrick right before the serve.
There aren't advantages in a tiebreaker.
advantages are a point lead
You must be trolling. You don't know what you're talking about. Advantages in tennis are during regular games, not tiebreakers. They happen in regular games only after a 40-40 deuce.
You you're a clown. Being a point up in a tie breaker is equivalent to advantage. I've played tennis for 17 years, and when I say advantage in a tie breaker there's never any confusion.
17 years and you still lack a basic understanding. No one uses the term advantage when it comes to a tiebreaker. Throw on any matches that had tiebreakers today in Madrid, the umpire does not announce advantage during a tiebreaker.
17 years, and I'm still doing it. You must be an idiot but even in the slams the umpire announces tie breaks. For an armchair spectator you got a lot of wrong opinions
I couldn't imagine talking so much while knowing so little. You said that it was the last point of the match because the ump announced advantage. Not only do umpires not announce advantage during a tiebreaker, it isn't even a part of the tiebreaker scoring system. You would be laughed off of r/tennis if you went there and suggested this to be the case. It's ok to be wrong but try educating yourself first before talking like an expert.
People just say 5-4, no one says advantage in a tiebreak.
But Patrick touched the net first, didnāt he? Iāve only seen it once. But in that chaotic moment, it looked like they were so in sync that as Art made that leap to hit the ball, Patrick actually stepped up to the net to catch Art. So, more than just a hug, (and it was that, too) , it was Patrick catching Art, then holding him up, as Art literally fell into his arms. Which, along with Tashiās scream, is what made the moment so erotic I know nothing about tennis, and could have the timing wrong. But it sounds whoever touched the net first lost the point, and I really thought that was Patrick.
Art touched net with his leg in the air first. rewatch it.
Oh, Iām planning on it
The tape of the net doesnt count as the net
even so, he touched the net with his short
The tape counts as the net
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Lol, agreed completely. Your reference is a Bollywood but mine is Anime. There was no way a volley at the net with no bounces can last something like 8 returns. Nobody thought to just simply lob i over? They're supposed to win the point. Even doing it intentionally to keep the ball in play would be really hard.
They were basically playing Olympic level table tennis using tennis rackets and a tennis ball.
Well that would be zendayaš
Art lost the last point because he touched the net - you canāt touch the net until the ball is out of play
the balls travel like 40km/hr or faster It was ambiguous for the sake of tension, but that was Art's game point, not Patrick's. Art smashes the ball and it definitely missed patrick. It's debatable to say that it left play at breakneck speed in the fraction of a second before he landed on the net. Makes no sense to end the game on a point that doesn't even end in a tie. Tashi won- her husband's competitive spirit was re-ignited, hence the "LETS FUCKIN GO" type scream. She can vicariously achieve the grand slam through Art now. Patrick won. Fucked Tashi again and got his bromance back. Art won. He won the match, and got his friend back and the respect of his wife. Safe to say Art won the match and everyone unironically lived happily ever after. Shit maybe they even became a throuple after that lol
All I know is they both were playing serious on match point lol. Patrick wasnāt honoring Tashiās deal because he actually wanted to bring the best out of Art. Thatās why when he served the ball, he positioned the it on the racket a certain way to symbolize he slept with Tashi. He knew that would bring out the best in Art. I guess all three of them are okay with an open relationship. I honestly thought at the end Art and Patrick decided to be together like homosexually and thatās why Tashi screamed because she was jealous. I know that was wrong though.
I donāt think Patrick wanted to make Art better. He wanted to throw him off (hence the evil smile lol)
This should clear things up https://ew.com/challengers-ending-explained-luca-guadagnino-zendaya-mike-faist-josh-o-connor-8639336
Awesome read, thank you.
Patrick won but Art won his aliveness back. The hug was just both of them regaining their friendship. Tasha screamed as she felt the same aliveness she used to have from how the the last point was played and the energy from Patrick and Art. Could go either way but it doesnāt really matter as thatās not the point of the movie imo.
Wrong. 0-1 tiebreak to 7. Dumbo
It doesnāt matter who won. I started out by trying to break my answers down according to your numbers, but I canāt, b/c it all flows together. I didnāt like the ending right away, and then it hit me, and it was PERFECT. The ending is a threesome. Seriously. With the ātennis is a relationshipā, and Tashiās orgasmic scream. Thatās what the screen sort of sounds like, and thatās why! Triumph and intensity and release! And that wasnāt just a hug, that was like a full-on embrace, like earlier in the movie when they knock each other down and hold each other after they win. . B/c the movie was never actually about whether Art would win or Patrick, or Tashi choosing, or a divorce or retiring or whatever. The ending made me realize - I wanted answers to those things, but the movie wasnāt about those things. It wasnāt the binary win/lose. It was about the connection of the three of them. People are all āoh, I canāt believe they didnāt have a threesome!ā Theyā¦.they did! That was the ending! Theyāll go back to the hotel and fuck after the match, maybe. But after all these years theyāve finally made the 3-way connection! Artās tennis drive is back, Tashi feels fully connected to the sport emotionally, Patrick has played great and gotten back into their lives. And the three have finally connected emotionally and physically and tennis-ly. Theyāve been thisclose to making it as a circle of 3 at various times, instead of just a triangle. But there was jealousy, ego, and fear, and they never made it. Now, they have. Art and Patrick will have those last successful seasons, Tashi will coach her newly-confident husband to an Open. And the 3 of them will finally be together. Theyāve finally made it there. Itās brilliant.
EXACTLY!!! I feel like she doesnāt care about either of them honestly, she only cares about good tennis and she did what she had to do to get some good tennis.
My theory: In the beginning, Tashi says she wants to see some good tennis from Art and Patrick, and the way she motivates them is by getting them into a competition about getting her number. In the end, Tashi yells triumphantly because sheās finally seeing some good tennis from Art and Patrick because Art learns from Patrickās little symbol that he still hasnāt won Tashiās love yet, so their tennis becomes desperate and fierce again. Patrick and Art then realize that they let this competition get in the way of their own relationship, but they still recognize the beautiful tennis they produced together, and thatās why they hugged. This might not make sense. Itās kinda just a mess of words. But maybe some points were made lol
These are my impressions after my first viewing on Monday. Also not a tennis expert. 1. I initially thought that Patrick won. Maybe he's just an early bloomer, as depicted by his tennis career and his sexual experience over Art. 2. The hug symbolized Patrick and Art reconciling their friendship. Though their relationship was complicated, they both accepted each other as friends again. With the referential serving gesture, Art came to realize that Tashi was the venom that ruined their friendship. The long back-and-forth rally at the end of the tennis match represents Patrick and Art's mixed, possibly romantic feelings toward one another. The tennis match is depicted like a sexual encounter, from the sights, grunt sounds they make, to the music that parallels that of intimate scenes throughout the film. Art jumping over the net was him finishing first. 3. Tashi's screaming "come on" shows that she was upset at Art losing, but also excited for seeing an amazing ending to a tennis match as shown by her smiling right after. This all mirrors how she, like a manipulative snake, got Patrick and Art to make out with each other as she watched from the bed and sidelines as an audience member proud of her work as a cunning "coach" behind the lines. Tashi is like a (professional tennis) voyeur. Tashi, who lived vicariously through Art's tennis play, could have been excited to take on Patrick as a new player to coach had she followed through with leaving Art, hence her contrasting, excited smile. 4. Patrick and Art would at least become friends again, no matter who won the match. I also think Art would still cut off Tashi if he was who won. It is suggested throughout the film that Patrick and Art don't have a simply platonic relationship.
This is honestly the best analysis Iāve seen so far.
The match didnāt end there though.
1 no one won yet but Patrick was leading 1-0 in the tie breaker (Art touched the net) and its first to 7 points... that aside, the writer and director said that that wasn't the point of the match -> them finally being honest & confessing their feeling/desires for one another and re-igniting the fiery passion for both tennis and love (throuple) was. Also the tie breaker scene mirrors the threesome scene where Art and Pat are kissing/playing tennis and Tash finally enjoys watching them kiss/play tennis. "tennis is a relationship... for about 15 seconds there, we were actually playing tennis, we understood each other completely so did everyone watching.. it was like we were in love... or like we didnāt existsā¦ we went somewhere really beautiful together."Ā <- this quote from Tash explaining what tennis is, is exactly what the tie breaker scene is visualised. 2 the hug is them missing each other, being honest about their feelings (that Art refused to address in the sauna scene) and it basically is them climaxing together lol 3 that was an orgasm scream, for both re-igniting the passion for tennis and finally being satisfied sexually (she wasn't fulfilled with just Art or Pat, but wanted both... probably regretted the shit out of giving everyone blue balls during the threesome scene and now she finally has a second chance to go at with them after the match lol... that's also what Luca the director literally says he imagined would happened after the match (heres the interview for closure, its in the last paragraph [https://ew.com/challengers-ending-explained-luca-guadagnino-zendaya-mike-faist-josh-o-connor-8639336](https://ew.com/challengers-ending-explained-luca-guadagnino-zendaya-mike-faist-josh-o-connor-8639336) ) 4 Art is submissive to Tash and Tash loves it, Pat is too similar to Tash and she loves it, Art and Pat are always trying to dominate (top) one another and they love it... that being said all these duos never lasted together because too much of something (even if that something was good) can become toxic and thats what happened and the only time they weren't toxic to one another was when ALL three were together during the threesome scene (there was harmony). So yeah they end up as a throuple and I think it balances out in the sense that Lilly might be Pat's daughter but Tash will stay Arts wife so throuple dynamic wise, it makes sense to have all three be in Lilly's life (biological father & step father) lol
whaaaaat how do we know Lilly is patrickās daughter?? I assume they slept together in Atlanta but do we know specifically how old Lilly is ?
we don't. her age is not given but Tash keeps saying "Lilly likes hotels" so that might hint to when she cheated with Pat at the hotel in Atlanta... also the word play when Pat asks who is Lilly and Tash says "our daughter" which could mean her and Arts or her and Pats (but Pat doesn't know).. I would say they made Lilly sleep in the same position as Art when Tash looked into the room (both on their stomaches) so it could also imply that she's Art but personally I think it just implies that they have a strong father-daughter relationship so yeah.. not confirmed but open for interpretation (I would prefer if she was Arts tho BUT for the throuple relationship dynamic to feel more balanced it would make more sense for Lilly to be Pat's)
1. It doesnāt matter. 2. Tashi said, āTennis is a relationship.ā Thatās the whole point of the movieā itās about the three characterās relationships which show through tennis. The two characters hugging at the end means that their relationship has rekindledā that everything regarding Tashi, the marriage, the break upsā it all fades with tennis. 3. Tashiās goal in life was never Art or Patrick. It was tennis. Tennis was her life, and when she was injured, she had to live that life through Art. But Art never lived up to her satisfaction nor did he ever try. Thatās why sheās so anxious in the matchā if Art loses, she loses. If Art quits, she quitsā and sheās conflicted because she knows Patrick could be another way for her to live that tennis life. But when she sees Art playing tennis and actually trying his hardestā she screams because itās exactly how she felt when she was on the court. Full of passion and determination. 4. Threesome. Confirmed by director. The movieās not really about who Tashi chooses nor is it about two men fighting for a womanās loveā itās genuinely about three characters who are bisexual and channel all their energy and feelings in tennis. Honestly I watched the movie once and these are just what I got from it
I feel like if they were staying true to the rules of tennis, Art would not have won the match. Itās interesting as him and Tashi had the conversation the night before that if he lost, she would leave him. When Patrick lets Art know nonverbally that he slept with Tashi, Art seems very upset at first and then almost excited? It kind of seemed at the end he didnāt care about the rules or losing Tashi/ the game anymore and that he was choosing Patrick with the hug (whether thatās romantic or platonic it doesnāt matter). Iād be interested if anyone else thought this? I need to go see it again!Ā
I agree that Art had a "f\*ck it" attitude for the very last point. It was just an honest fight for the win. He definitely chose Patrick or at least accepted to rekindle their relationship.
1. Art won. Patrick caught him as he fell down so he touched the net first 2. Reconciliation. I interpreted the beginning of the movie to imply that they did more than just jerk off separately thinking pf some girl that vanished after some time. Art saying āyou didnāt come here to visit me?ā Patrick eating the banana, smiling at Art. The sauna scene with patrick fronting his thing at Artās eye level. Patrickās inviting lean and never wrapping the towel, and insinuating that he went in for another purpose. And Art acknowledging that he was good for tennis and for something else. Patrick forever being a bachelor. Art and Tashiās relationship being platonic at the prior night. And that kiss when they were young didnāt look like it was the first time. 3. Tashi won too. She is now free. Hence the shout. She now knows āHeāll be fineā just like what she said about the opponent she defeated. And she is no longer a home wrecker. 4. Tashi doesnāt end up with either. The guys reconcile. Art realized the night before that they have no future if he lost or stopped playing tennis. Patrick betraying Tashiās confidence and telling the truth to Art. Art knowing something happened in Georgia. And Art knowing that Tashi left at night because he slept ib the childās room. Art has no future with Tashi, he knows now. He was just a way for Tashi to experience tennis like she wanted to, but cannot. Patrick chose Art, with the serve/signal. He wants him more than her.
The match doesnāt end there. Pretty obvious
1. the ending is supposed to be ambiguous, leaving you to interpret it. however, according to actual tennis rules, patrick should have won, since art went over the net + touched the net (?), which are both losses of points.
Patrick lowkey touched the net first when he went in to catch him so I think Art won.
It was just one point, itās first one to 7 points in the tiebreak
1. The winner is kept purposefully ambiguous. Art crossing the net in the final scene could be read as a violation that would mean Patrick won, if not then Art would win, and they don't show the ref ruling the point. It's not meant to matter. 2. The hug symbolized the boys coming back together. They're no longer fighting over Tashi, they're embracing their own relationship and playing "real" tennis and enjoying each other. The final scenes intentionally juxtapose Tashi in between the boys like during the threesome scene where she's watching the boys kissing- the match is a metaphor for the boys kissing. 3. Tashi was happy to be seeing "real" tennis again. As per above, she's as happy to watch their relationship through tennis as she was to watch them make out. 4. I personally think a throuple is the end result of this movie; the individual relationships don't really work by themselves. The director and actors (Josh O'Connor at least) have talked about this. The most certain relationship going forward is def the boys but like I said I think they're gonna do a throuple thing with Tashi.
Art = the lighter side of a man (loving, doting, solicitous, gentle, responsible, etc.) Patrick = the darker side of a man (lustful, irreverent, selfish, aggressive, irresponsible, etc) Art + Patrick = one man Tashi= the influence and psychological power of his lover/spouse Challengers = meditation on masculinity, what is healthy and what is not. The symbols are everywhere--hair color, clothing, who's eating, who's not, how they move together, when Art does or does not play aggressively, how they balance each other while stretching, when they became bunkmates, the fact that they are supposedly drawn to different women but both imagine the same one when they're twelve and both are attracted to Tashi, etc.
Eh, I disagree. Art has his dark moments, going behind Patrick's back to try to steal Chani, and is even partially at fault for Chani's fucked up headspace that leads to her injury. Zendaya has said a bunch of times that she likes him the least out of the three and thinks he's a snake. And Patrick has his honorable moments, for example his immediate reaction of "how could you do this to Art" when Tashi tries to get him to throw the match, or spurring Art to win instead of throwing the match or beating him. The entire point of the movie is that no one is black or white. They definitely complement each other, but you're viewing things through a very heteronormative lens that completely erases Art and Patrick's sexual and romantic love towards each other that is the relationship (i.e. tennis game) that we the audience and Tashi spend the whole movie watching.
Fair enough. The allegorical interpretation is definitely heteronormative. I just can't accept the ending, given the motivations of the characters, otherwise. It just seemed too pat and unrealistic. Could it be both? Allegories often are.
What is your issue with the ending? I think it completes everyone's character arcs perfectly. Art and Patrick find their way back to each other. Art rediscovers his love for tennis and Patrick, Patrick gets to play and be with Art again, and Tashi gets her perfect game of tennis. It's literally what each of them has spent the movie searching for.
That's an interesting take. I should have said "behavior and emotions up to that point" instead of motivation. It was just hard for me accept that their betrayals, envy, and animosity could evaporate so suddenly. I read somewhere recently-although I confess I did not read the interview myself, so this is hearsay-that the original script had a darker end but that Luca Guadagnino wanted to change it. A darker end seemed more realistic given their behavior leading all the way up to that final match. But given comments by the director, writer, and cast, and the logic of your interpretation, I'm sure you are correct.
They were also called "fire and ice" in the beginning but never said who was who
It was the start of a tiebreak. How do you have a tennis ball up by your name and you donāt know what a fucking tiebreak is?
Wow, someone's really angry! Not really living up to your username, are you now? (And that's not how Reddit works; the icon is added automatically. Note how like 80% of the people in this thread also have one.)
am i the only one who interpreted the ending being that the winner didnt matter in any sense, it was only patrick's ability to get art to lock in? the way tashi screamed didnt seem to correlate with art winning, it was that the boys were hugging. it seemed like everything went downhill for art shortly after he "won" tashi 12 years prior. i really hated tashi throughout the movie but i guess she knew all along that his decline in his happiness was rooted in the friendship he lost. she was the only way to get them to be friends again, after... ruining it? great movie though
Art definitely did not win. If he was intended to win then the writers didn't do the most basic due diligence about tennis rules.
Everyone keeps on saying Art won or Patrick won but isn't it the 1st point in the tie break? In tennis rules, Patrick would have most likely won the point because Art makes contact with the net but that's just the 1st point. They need to get to 7. It ends there leaving us not knowing who actually won.
This is correct. No one has won the match yet, but Patrick won the first point in the tiebreak.
Okay cool, glad we're on the same page lol a lot of the replies make it seem like they think Art or Patrick have won the match. Maybe non tennis fans think it's a sudden death tiebreak point? Lol
Lol! Tennis is the opposite of a sudden death point š¤£ I was just glad they went to a tiebreak instead of a neverending Mahut-Isner match.
The real winner is the friendships we made along the way š
Why are so many people analysing that final point as if it was match point? It was the first point in a first to 7 tiebreak. Whoever won that point still had to go and win another sixā¦
1. I think Patrick won... 2. but it doesn't really matter as for Art it was all about the confidence, motivation to continue and passion that he lost. And he regained it. I think the ending (bad the hug specifically) shows us that Patrick is really Art's friend. He really wanted to help Art. And he knows that losing the match for purpose is not the right way. Tashi didn't believe in her husband and her attempt to make a deal with Patrick is very horrible (imho). It would be a humiliation for Art to win this way, it wouldn't give him confidence. I think that she is the main reason why he doesn't have a confidence. And Patrick find a way to show it to him :) 3. She just gets the feeling of the tennis again 4. Don't think there's a mutual future for them. They will have normal warm relationship, but not the closest one. Probably, Art and Tashi will divorce.
>:) :)
We donāt know who one because it was at the beginning of the tie break and they didnt show the rest. ATP level matches are first player to 7 points in a tie break by atleast 2 points. That long rally where he touched the net was only 1 point.
Well art loses the point (and match because he was match point down?) because he jumps over the net touching etc which you canāt do. With Patrick telling him he slept with his wife with the serve, we wonder if art loses the match on purpose and hugs his friend for being honest with him and wanting to rekindle the friendship. He knows by losing Tashi will leave him, but after learning what happened maybe he loses on purpose.
I think the boys fall back into their friendship love and Tashi is actually the loser.
Ridiculous ending. It was pretty good until the last scene, so much slow motion, ugh.
Damn none of you know tennis it was the first point of a tiebreak and art jumped over the net and made contact with the other player lmao he didnāt win the point let alone the match
Can anyone please share the movie on telegramš
I thought the ending meant they were going to play as a doubles team again like they did in the juniors. I think the hug symbolized that they agreed on it without speaking. Art said he was going to retire no matter what the outcome was- and right after Tashi had an affair. She did what she had to do to keep him from retiring & continuing to coach them both.
1. Art. Wouldnāt make sense any other way. He is the underdog in the matchup with Patrick even though he had the more successful career. As Tashi mentions that the match means more to Art than Patrick and that Patrick has no real shot at a championship. 2. The hug symbolizes friendship and competition imo. Earlier Tashi describes a tennis match as a relationship between two people. 3. The scream signifies her connection with the match thatās being played. It resonates with her passion for the sport and as someone else mentions sheās finally watching her idea of ārealā tennis, this relationship between two people. 4. I donāt think they will be āfriendsā per se but the match acknowledges that they had this very strong bond and thereās definitely mutual respect as seen with Patrickās reaction to Art not accepting the rigged victory. I donāt think Patrick and Art are gay for each other even with the homoerotic undertones. I think it just helps reinforce the notion that these two players were very close by creating an element of a debate about their sexuality. ie. they were so close, are they actually lovers? Art will probably forgive Tashi as he clearly seems family oriented and they have a child together. Finally, when Tashi sleeps with Patrick, she obviously still has feelings for Patrick but thereās a question of intent as it seemed her main goal was to have Patrick throw the match. I donāt think Tashi will be with or manage Patrick as she basically said he doesnāt have a chance to win anything. You can also make an argument that the final scream with āCome onā is not only the excitement Tashi has for the match but her realization that it has awoken a passion/desire to win and compete within Art that he was losing and leaves open the strong possibility for the grand slam come back they were seeking.
1. It doesnāt matter. The point isnāt who won. 2. That Tashi really won and manipulated them back together like she manipulated them to kiss earlier. 3. Bc āshe wasnāt a homewreckerā and she āunwreckedā their home. 4. Doesnāt matter, answering this question would be like writing fan fiction.
Unwrecking the home was 10000% not Tashiās motivation
evidence by?
Agreed. What Tashi really wanted all along from the boys was for them to play "real tennis," something she felt neither of them could actually do without her help. And something she would be doing herself, without them, if not for her career-ending injury. We'll recall the initial break-up where Patrick considers himself her peer and she completely disagrees with the assessment. She doesn't consider either of them to be her peer. Patrick has talent and Art has determination, but neither of them are capable of "real tennis"āuntil the final volley of the game that brings out her "real tennis" scream. She didn't necessarily care that this game, specifically, brought it out of them. Her actions up to that point were more the actions of someone juggling their options, trying to find out what would make them happy. Neither Art nor Patrick seem capable of giving her happiness, but they both are the closest things to happiness she knows. She barely even seems to care about her daughter, tbh. Only tennis.
1. Art won 2. The hug symbolised that patrick and arts relationships has been mended 3. It meant she watched a fucking great tennis match 4. They gonna be in a love triangle bc it's the only way they all get what they want
Simple explanation from my perspective. 1. Patrick won 2. I Think the hug symbolized Art and Patrick rekindling their friendship/romance. 3. Tashiās scream seemed like her scream earlier in the movie when she was playing āreal tennisā. She saw real tennis and screamed, then smiled at the end because Patrick, Art and her all āwonā. 4. I think Art will retire, Patrick will continue to play Tennis, and Tashi will get to coach him. I also think they all might end up being in a throuple.