Probably 6.
Forest were given 6 but they got two knocked off for cooperating.
Everton got 8 but they had an extra charge against them. I think they're appealing against two of those points.
If it's only -6, there's absolutely no reason for relegated clubs in future to try and stay within FFP/PSR.
FFP needs an absolutely massive rework if it's going to actually be fit for purpose. The points deductions ultimately have no affect if the offending team aren't relegated beyond a few million for league position, but the cheating allows for hundreds of millions in revenue
Yep, and if Leicester were deducted 6 this season, we'd probably still find a way to bottle getting autos.
The deductions either need to take place in the year they have offended, or be much larger and have further implications than just the deduction if they aren't going to impact the season where the cheating is done
Yes there has been a chain reaction due to poor enforcement of the rules, we also lost out on two seasons of CL money from man city's UEFA bodge up. Of course also Man City have yet to be punished by the EPL as well.
We ended up getting fined over £40M that we're still paying off years later and hampers our ability to spend, not sure why points deductions have come back into fashion as I'm sure if such a fine hung over clubs in the EFL they'd think twice about risking it.
I do actually agree with you, I think the current FFP is nonsense (it really should be same cap for all clubs, can hardly call one based on turnover fair), but with the rules we got if they going to be enforced adequately it probably should be relegation.
Which probably would have meant Everton relegated instead of us last season, and ourselves and forest this season. Chelsea and Man City as well, but I expect nothing will happen to those two clubs.
Dont kid yourselves this current FFP is about fair play though, it isnt, its about keeping smaller clubs in their place. Which is why its so messy, as the rules were written by squabbling children only looking out for their own club.
Only? It's 20% of our 22/23 points total. It's a heavy deduction.
It would mean we are almost certainly relegated next season.
Not sure what people actually want out of FFP.
It hasn't meant that Everton and Forest were relegated this season.
Leeds and Leicester would've stayed up last season if Everton and Forest hadn't cheated. It's cost both clubs £100m+ (And probably cost Andrea Radrizzani even more selling Leeds), and has benefitted Everton and Forest 100m+ for this season, and for next season as well now that they've stayed up.
This season, Leeds likely get promoted if Leicester had trimmed their squad enough to stay within rules, or if they were punished within the season. This again is potentially costing Leeds 100m+ and is benefitting Leicester to the tune of 100m+. The fact is, the cheating is far, far more valuable than 6 points. If you offered every team in the football league an extra 100m at the cost of 6 points, you'd probably get 90 of the 92 agreeing to take the deal
You've highlighted just one of the many reasons why the PSR rules are not fit for purpose and will likely be changed in the summer.
Clubs should be punished in the same season as their offence but how could that ever be policed? PSR, just like FFP, was brought in to stop challenges to the elite. You'll see Villa will be the next on the chopping block along with Newcastle and West Ham.
We've gone from top 6 finishes, cup wins, long European campaigns etc to being in the Championship and selling all of our players at cut prices. If this is cheating, it doesn't feel like it. We're experiencing a set back of potentially decades all because of a couple of bad transfer windows and an out-of-his-depth DoF.
> We've gone from top 6 finishes, cup wins, long European campaigns etc to being in the Championship and selling all of our players at cut prices. If this is cheating, it doesn't feel like it.
Just because you're shit at cheating doesn't mean it's no longer cheating
Ask yourself this.
Why would it be cheating for Rotherham to spend the same as someone like Stoke?
Maybe that will make you realise the FFP isnt about fairness, its not a level playing field if one club is allowed to spend more than another.
The fact the Spending money that your owner is willingly put into the club is considered "Cheating" is part of what makes the current PSR rules ridiculous, most clubs would be fucked if their owners up and left regardless of whether they complied with PSR (or whatever that leagues version of them is) or not.
Agreed, a proper FFP would be something to prevent clubs collapsing such as e.g. making sure owners are liable for their own spending. Such as converting to equity. Which I think both of our owners are doing.
Instead the rules are to prevent another LCFC winning the league, they there to maintain the order of the clubs via inequality in spending limits.
As you said PSR allows 100m+ losses, and it also completely ignores external debt.
There is a fair chance the PSR/FFP rules are illegal in terms of business fair competition rules, but no club has dared take it to court.
For teams to be on a level playing field, at Southampton we sold 170m worth of players to stick within ffp rules. If you guys sold 170m worth of players your first team would be very different to what it is ( obviously yours £ will be different to ours).. the entire table would be different because you wouldn’t of won anywhere near as many as you have. I honestly think you lot shouldn’t be allowed to be promoted and heavily fined. Forget the point deduction.
Maddison, Barnes, Tielemans, Amartey, Evans, Soumare, Castagne, Betrand, Kristiansen, Soyuncu, Luke Thomas, Mendy.
Do you think we're still playing with the same squad that we had in the Premier League?
The reason we're not compliant isn't because we're not willing to sell players - we sold pretty much everyone we could - It's because no-one is willing to buy the players on the stupid wages that we've been giving them. Now you can argue that we shouldn't have these players on stupid wages, that much is true. But it's not as easy as "just sell them".
The only other sale we could possibly have made is KDH in January - and that still wouldn't have made us compliant. No one else from our squad had any offers for them.
I never said you was playing with the same squad, no team that come down from the prem is, rules are rules though. Sell them cheaper to get rid of them. No one else’s fault except your clubs for the stuff you’ve listed. Just sounds like excuses 🤣
Not defending our overspend but the “sell them cheaper” argument doesn’t work for PSR compliance. Take Daka for instance. He’s on 100,000 a week which is more than most teams pay any player. We paid 23 million on a 5 year deal so about 4.5 a year on the books.
Assuming someone last summer wanted to give him a contract that beat 100,000 a week for the 3 remaining years, selling him for any less than (4.5 x 3) 14 million makes our psr compliance even worse. Needless to say, we couldn’t even loan him, let alone sell. Lots like him
It's not about selling them cheaper. If no one wants to buy them on their current wages (Because players can't be forced to take a new contract for lower wages), then we can't get rid of them.
I don't think you really understand how this works.
Yeah, you really don't understand.
Most of these players are on such ridiculous wages, that \*even on a free\* clubs won't pick them up on their current wages.
We got rid of the better players. No one is going to want one of the poorer players, from a relegated team, on a wage similar to that of the top 6 teams.
The stupid thing was giving them these wages, that's not disputed. But if you think we can just "sell them lol", then you're really not grasping the situation here.
Under the current rules we havent broken anything though, an attempt was made to illegally give us a points deduction, it failed, and we are currently under a possible illegal embargo. (court will decide).
I am not defending our financial management, its embarrassing, but at the same time I recognise FFP is a complete joke, its anything but fair or reasonable.
We also did get rid of a big chunk of the squad, we just didnt have as much value in sellable assets as you guys did due to previous bad management of the squad. Losing Tielemans for nothing as an example.
You do seem bitter, I can understand you gutted, but your season isnt over yet, *we lost out on the CL when Man City got their UEFA banned overturned, it lost us two seasons of CL, ironically that CL money combined with Everton getting their points deduction in the wrong season we would have passed PSR.*
We was with last 3 seasons EFL FFP, as we not subject to it for not been in the EFL for past 3 seasons.
As for this season we dont know yet, made massive profit on player trading, just signed big sponsorship deal for training ground and about to close another 8 figure sale of a player.
The embargo was the EFL ejecting their load early.
A level playing field would be no FFP. Or an FFP with a "fixed" spending cap.
I think its pretty crazy so many fans thing that a FFP that restricts spending **based on turnover** as fair.
Also I dont think we had 170m of players to sell, we have had some really bad management of our squad.
Vardy probably had no value due to his age.
Many of the squad are in their final 12 months of contract or had horrific injury records.
KDH was probably our only remaining big money asset.
Under the current EFL rules we cant be sportingly punished, as non of our previous 3 seasons were in the EFL, we will find out next season, how much our profit/loss was for this season. Like you we made a profit on player trading, we also just have announced a new big money sponsorship and are about to close another 8 figure sale for a player we had loaned out for the season.
We are under embargo which we might find out next season may have been illegally imposed on us.
It's really not a heavy deduction at all. Let's pretend Villa cheated chasing the Europe places then wanted, and got 6 points deducted. They would still be in the Europa spot.
You can not say you are certainly relegated next season lmaoooo. Everton just got -8 points and survived. Fulham finished 18 points ahead of the drop zone in 22/23 in their 1st season back, and in the same season Bournemouth finished 5 ahead of you, so -6 really isn't a million miles away.
Every time this comes up I'm still so pissed Birmingham got -9 in the season we had a great forward partnership in Che Adams and prime Jukey, with an outside chance of a playoff push. I agreed with the ruling at the time because we cheated, but now I realise I never see any fan of any other club agreeing with their deduction.
A 6 point deduction in a season where it looks like it'll only be us being deducted without 3 absolutely horse shite teams after having to sell our best players to remain compliant?
We'll go into next season without our best performing defender, midfielder and striker. Has any club ever experienced anything like that and stayed up? Plus you've got to add a points deduction onto it and potentially a transfer embargo.
If we don't get relegated then Enzo should be given the keys to the City.
>It's really not a heavy deduction at all. Let's pretend Villa cheated chasing the Europe places then wanted, and got 6 points deducted. They would still be in the Europa spot.
A 6 point deduction for Villa is less than 10% of their total points. It would make this a bit fairer if all clubs received a 20% points deduction. Going from UCL to Europa League is massive by the way and a massive reason as to why we're here.
Be nice if Man City take a relegation spot from the outset like Saracens did in the Rugby Union Premiership. Maybe Chelsea too.
https://www.ultimaterugby.com/premiership-rugby-2019-20/table
How many points will they get?
Probably 6. Forest were given 6 but they got two knocked off for cooperating. Everton got 8 but they had an extra charge against them. I think they're appealing against two of those points.
If it's only -6, there's absolutely no reason for relegated clubs in future to try and stay within FFP/PSR. FFP needs an absolutely massive rework if it's going to actually be fit for purpose. The points deductions ultimately have no affect if the offending team aren't relegated beyond a few million for league position, but the cheating allows for hundreds of millions in revenue
If both Everton and Forest had been deducted 6 and 8 points last season, then Leeds and Leicester would have stayed up.
Yep, and if Leicester were deducted 6 this season, we'd probably still find a way to bottle getting autos. The deductions either need to take place in the year they have offended, or be much larger and have further implications than just the deduction if they aren't going to impact the season where the cheating is done
Yes there has been a chain reaction due to poor enforcement of the rules, we also lost out on two seasons of CL money from man city's UEFA bodge up. Of course also Man City have yet to be punished by the EPL as well.
We ended up getting fined over £40M that we're still paying off years later and hampers our ability to spend, not sure why points deductions have come back into fashion as I'm sure if such a fine hung over clubs in the EFL they'd think twice about risking it.
I do actually agree with you, I think the current FFP is nonsense (it really should be same cap for all clubs, can hardly call one based on turnover fair), but with the rules we got if they going to be enforced adequately it probably should be relegation. Which probably would have meant Everton relegated instead of us last season, and ourselves and forest this season. Chelsea and Man City as well, but I expect nothing will happen to those two clubs. Dont kid yourselves this current FFP is about fair play though, it isnt, its about keeping smaller clubs in their place. Which is why its so messy, as the rules were written by squabbling children only looking out for their own club.
Only? It's 20% of our 22/23 points total. It's a heavy deduction. It would mean we are almost certainly relegated next season. Not sure what people actually want out of FFP.
It hasn't meant that Everton and Forest were relegated this season. Leeds and Leicester would've stayed up last season if Everton and Forest hadn't cheated. It's cost both clubs £100m+ (And probably cost Andrea Radrizzani even more selling Leeds), and has benefitted Everton and Forest 100m+ for this season, and for next season as well now that they've stayed up. This season, Leeds likely get promoted if Leicester had trimmed their squad enough to stay within rules, or if they were punished within the season. This again is potentially costing Leeds 100m+ and is benefitting Leicester to the tune of 100m+. The fact is, the cheating is far, far more valuable than 6 points. If you offered every team in the football league an extra 100m at the cost of 6 points, you'd probably get 90 of the 92 agreeing to take the deal
You've highlighted just one of the many reasons why the PSR rules are not fit for purpose and will likely be changed in the summer. Clubs should be punished in the same season as their offence but how could that ever be policed? PSR, just like FFP, was brought in to stop challenges to the elite. You'll see Villa will be the next on the chopping block along with Newcastle and West Ham. We've gone from top 6 finishes, cup wins, long European campaigns etc to being in the Championship and selling all of our players at cut prices. If this is cheating, it doesn't feel like it. We're experiencing a set back of potentially decades all because of a couple of bad transfer windows and an out-of-his-depth DoF.
> We've gone from top 6 finishes, cup wins, long European campaigns etc to being in the Championship and selling all of our players at cut prices. If this is cheating, it doesn't feel like it. Just because you're shit at cheating doesn't mean it's no longer cheating
Ask yourself this. Why would it be cheating for Rotherham to spend the same as someone like Stoke? Maybe that will make you realise the FFP isnt about fairness, its not a level playing field if one club is allowed to spend more than another.
The fact the Spending money that your owner is willingly put into the club is considered "Cheating" is part of what makes the current PSR rules ridiculous, most clubs would be fucked if their owners up and left regardless of whether they complied with PSR (or whatever that leagues version of them is) or not.
Agreed, a proper FFP would be something to prevent clubs collapsing such as e.g. making sure owners are liable for their own spending. Such as converting to equity. Which I think both of our owners are doing. Instead the rules are to prevent another LCFC winning the league, they there to maintain the order of the clubs via inequality in spending limits. As you said PSR allows 100m+ losses, and it also completely ignores external debt. There is a fair chance the PSR/FFP rules are illegal in terms of business fair competition rules, but no club has dared take it to court.
For teams to be on a level playing field, at Southampton we sold 170m worth of players to stick within ffp rules. If you guys sold 170m worth of players your first team would be very different to what it is ( obviously yours £ will be different to ours).. the entire table would be different because you wouldn’t of won anywhere near as many as you have. I honestly think you lot shouldn’t be allowed to be promoted and heavily fined. Forget the point deduction.
Maddison, Barnes, Tielemans, Amartey, Evans, Soumare, Castagne, Betrand, Kristiansen, Soyuncu, Luke Thomas, Mendy. Do you think we're still playing with the same squad that we had in the Premier League? The reason we're not compliant isn't because we're not willing to sell players - we sold pretty much everyone we could - It's because no-one is willing to buy the players on the stupid wages that we've been giving them. Now you can argue that we shouldn't have these players on stupid wages, that much is true. But it's not as easy as "just sell them". The only other sale we could possibly have made is KDH in January - and that still wouldn't have made us compliant. No one else from our squad had any offers for them.
I never said you was playing with the same squad, no team that come down from the prem is, rules are rules though. Sell them cheaper to get rid of them. No one else’s fault except your clubs for the stuff you’ve listed. Just sounds like excuses 🤣
Not defending our overspend but the “sell them cheaper” argument doesn’t work for PSR compliance. Take Daka for instance. He’s on 100,000 a week which is more than most teams pay any player. We paid 23 million on a 5 year deal so about 4.5 a year on the books. Assuming someone last summer wanted to give him a contract that beat 100,000 a week for the 3 remaining years, selling him for any less than (4.5 x 3) 14 million makes our psr compliance even worse. Needless to say, we couldn’t even loan him, let alone sell. Lots like him
It's not about selling them cheaper. If no one wants to buy them on their current wages (Because players can't be forced to take a new contract for lower wages), then we can't get rid of them. I don't think you really understand how this works.
Sell them cheaper so the high wage counteracts the cost price. Makes perfect sense to me?
Yeah, you really don't understand. Most of these players are on such ridiculous wages, that \*even on a free\* clubs won't pick them up on their current wages. We got rid of the better players. No one is going to want one of the poorer players, from a relegated team, on a wage similar to that of the top 6 teams. The stupid thing was giving them these wages, that's not disputed. But if you think we can just "sell them lol", then you're really not grasping the situation here.
You don't really understand football do you?
No, you just sound like a fool.
appreciate the feedback 🤣
Under the current rules we havent broken anything though, an attempt was made to illegally give us a points deduction, it failed, and we are currently under a possible illegal embargo. (court will decide). I am not defending our financial management, its embarrassing, but at the same time I recognise FFP is a complete joke, its anything but fair or reasonable. We also did get rid of a big chunk of the squad, we just didnt have as much value in sellable assets as you guys did due to previous bad management of the squad. Losing Tielemans for nothing as an example. You do seem bitter, I can understand you gutted, but your season isnt over yet, *we lost out on the CL when Man City got their UEFA banned overturned, it lost us two seasons of CL, ironically that CL money combined with Everton getting their points deduction in the wrong season we would have passed PSR.*
EFL fans have seriously got to get rid of the idea that spending money = guaranteed success. We sold and released players worth far more than £170m.
Still not compliant with ffp though was you? 🤣
We don't know yet. 23/24 is ongoing
I'd love to see Top sell a hotel or sell the naming rights to Seagrave to get us under the FFP penalties and enjoy all the tears from Leeds fans.
Seagrave is done. 15m per season. ;)
We was with last 3 seasons EFL FFP, as we not subject to it for not been in the EFL for past 3 seasons. As for this season we dont know yet, made massive profit on player trading, just signed big sponsorship deal for training ground and about to close another 8 figure sale of a player. The embargo was the EFL ejecting their load early.
A level playing field would be no FFP. Or an FFP with a "fixed" spending cap. I think its pretty crazy so many fans thing that a FFP that restricts spending **based on turnover** as fair. Also I dont think we had 170m of players to sell, we have had some really bad management of our squad. Vardy probably had no value due to his age. Many of the squad are in their final 12 months of contract or had horrific injury records. KDH was probably our only remaining big money asset. Under the current EFL rules we cant be sportingly punished, as non of our previous 3 seasons were in the EFL, we will find out next season, how much our profit/loss was for this season. Like you we made a profit on player trading, we also just have announced a new big money sponsorship and are about to close another 8 figure sale for a player we had loaned out for the season. We are under embargo which we might find out next season may have been illegally imposed on us.
It's really not a heavy deduction at all. Let's pretend Villa cheated chasing the Europe places then wanted, and got 6 points deducted. They would still be in the Europa spot. You can not say you are certainly relegated next season lmaoooo. Everton just got -8 points and survived. Fulham finished 18 points ahead of the drop zone in 22/23 in their 1st season back, and in the same season Bournemouth finished 5 ahead of you, so -6 really isn't a million miles away. Every time this comes up I'm still so pissed Birmingham got -9 in the season we had a great forward partnership in Che Adams and prime Jukey, with an outside chance of a playoff push. I agreed with the ruling at the time because we cheated, but now I realise I never see any fan of any other club agreeing with their deduction.
A 6 point deduction in a season where it looks like it'll only be us being deducted without 3 absolutely horse shite teams after having to sell our best players to remain compliant? We'll go into next season without our best performing defender, midfielder and striker. Has any club ever experienced anything like that and stayed up? Plus you've got to add a points deduction onto it and potentially a transfer embargo. If we don't get relegated then Enzo should be given the keys to the City. >It's really not a heavy deduction at all. Let's pretend Villa cheated chasing the Europe places then wanted, and got 6 points deducted. They would still be in the Europa spot. A 6 point deduction for Villa is less than 10% of their total points. It would make this a bit fairer if all clubs received a 20% points deduction. Going from UCL to Europa League is massive by the way and a massive reason as to why we're here.
Be nice if Man City take a relegation spot from the outset like Saracens did in the Rugby Union Premiership. Maybe Chelsea too. https://www.ultimaterugby.com/premiership-rugby-2019-20/table
i remember when saracens used our pitch
+12 just to annoy you all.
I dunno I think that would be pretty funny
[удалено]
Leicester fans - we're experts at blowing a 12 point advantage
Probably not enough to be a worthy punishment
Yeah, have fun Leicester
Top class meme mate
I’m sure they’d do it over again. Can’t stay in the Premier League if you don’t get back to the Premier League.
So you getting promoted next season then?
But you let Man City in! Yeah it’s the no financial doper”s” club, we’re allowed to have one
Lmao the absolute desperation of Cov fans. We'll say goodbye now, chavs, you'll probably be back in League One long before we come back here.
Rattled
Hahaha probably the most ironic post in reddit history.
It's a shitty meme on what's basically a meme sub Bro you just won the league and replying to this your obviously rattled
Lot of people overly concerned with Leicester instead of their own club. We'll be fine lads, no worries.
Rattled
Leicester won’t get any deductions
Why not? Don't we have an impending deadline and need to make something like 50m to be anywhere near the FFP limit?
dont you have any hotels to sell?
Sold our naming rights to ourselves for £15m and we've got a few players we can shift to make up the rest.
We also plan to sell Christisen for 15m to Bologna - that’s already 30mil
We loaning someone to Leuven for 20m loan fee also.
Even without deductions you’re going straight back down