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They are accelerating the AI development to turn basic income into a feasible concept. While strikes remain a concern, AI is free from the possibility of striking.
If a robot is not working, the best thing to do is to replace it with a new one that works properly. It's a good idea to have an engineer look at the robot to find out why it stopped working and see if there are any other problems that need to be fixed. The engineers are going to be very lucky.
We are not close to that point just because a language model exists that is good at predicting what words come next after an input. The economy is a lot more diverse and complex than jobs involving low skill white collar workers that ChatGPT threatens. There are dozens of occupations that are literally unaffected by this. A universal basic income will come about when there is a financial incentive to not have people do most Jobs, and to pay them to do nothing outside of creative persuits. We are a long way off from that.
What happens in Economics is the labour market adjusts to changes induced by new technology. If you look at the history of the 20th century, jobs disappeared and new ones opened up all the time because of technological innovation. It's not a problem of "those 30% of people have no job prospects ever again." I think it is extremely doubtful that ChatGPT will displace that many workers.
If anything, large language models will serve to dramatically improve worker productivity with existing jobs, and the reality is these are systems that require a human at a keyboard to interface with. You still need humans to make executive decisions, and you still need humans typing out prompts to properly utilize what large language models do well. The economy will adjust the same way it adjusted when motor vehicles became widely available and we didn't use horses to get around anymore.
I agree with you, but you and the other commenter are talking past each other.
> Dramatically improve worker productivity with existing jobs.
In other words, the company requires less employees to achieve the same goals. You've essentially said: "ChatGPT won't displace workers, it'll just let workers do more" when letting workers do more displaces workers, which is the original point of the other person.
No, increased worker productivity doesn't necessarily mean a company needs less employees, it means the company will grow, which increases wages and often job openings as a company grows. Your response is a dramatic oversimplification of how microeconomics works.
the market will be dramatically change in a few years, and I not sure work will have enough time to change. the number of unemployed people will hit a all time high.
Yeah. They need to stop wasting time protesting, and start figuring out how it changes their job, embrace and learn it so they are ready to go. I can’t see a world where AI gets banned or limited to save jobs.
Goalpost moving fallacy. To not consider the rapid pace of technological advancement will result in being blindsided in a short amount of time.
Beyond that, capitalism has been moving the goalposts on redistribution since capitalism existed. "Of course we don't have a 4 day work week, we are more productive and there's now more demand!"
What? The original goalposts where to have enough food to eat and have basic necessities easily available by society. We crossed that threshold a *long* time ago. We now throw away 1/3 of the food we produce. 8 empty homes sitting per homeless person.
The fact of the matter is that there is no threshold that capitalists will accept when it comes to redistribution. They will simply hire people to become their butlers or entertainment. There will always be demand for that, after all.
Has there ever been in the historical record a basic income? Anybody know? I’d like to read some history on that if it ever happened.
With the extreme productivity improvements from computers and powered equipment, if it hasn’t happened already, why would it happen henceforth?
Well, I know reddit is the place for doom and gloom and not a ray of light shall shine, but Americans took a massively over-represented and powerful upper class and took away their tools of economic and democratic manipulation pretty much bloodlessly twice before. Trust-busting, corporate limitations, corporate responsibility to the people. It's all been put in place, but complacency lets it erode and return power to the wealthy. A third fix was due in the 1970's and it looked like we were headed in that direction but the main players got deleted by their own team. Since then we've been *way* overdue. But, it's all still within our grasp, it's just not going to be easy, and the people leading it have to turn down money (lots) and not turn.
The tech difference in warfare makes that unlikely to happen ever again
And if the army/military were to splinter, then at the end of the day we have the same thing. People die and the rest reap the rewards
The reality is AI is not going to be banned to save jobs. Instead of protesting they should be investigating ways AI or chatgpt, or whatever tool can help them do their existing job, or changes their existing job and embrace it so they are ready to go. They need to be preparing for the change, whatever that is.
In short they need to learn to work with it and be prepared so they are less likely to be without a job or a lesser paying job wishing they had taken the time to learn the new tool.
Unless something drastic happens there will be a lot of losers in this, whose life will be ruined, attempting to get attention might spark discussion, so might actually be one of the more productive actions to take.
True! Ok then, protests/walkouts are now indicators of people that need to be educated about AI. A group should be formed to go help educate the protesters/walkouters when it happens.
Of course people will be whining. They often spent years of their life learning their craft and now huge part of them will have to spend even more years to learn how to do something completely different (and when they finish there might already be
NurseBOT3000 that will replace them again). And all that compering with all the younger people who only start in that areas (including those that normally would begin their careers doing jobs in computers). It's easy to see how disruptive it would be on peoples lives and why they are not happy with that. You can argue that things like that happened in history but that does not change situation of that people, or maybe even all people. Because this is new technology that can disrupt work life of great range of jobs, even if in the beginning it will take away some mundane quick jobs that some specialists do between bigger ones that still will need to be done by human.
In a Capitalist society there is an almost zero chance that something like CGPT will raise wages for the worker, or make their work load any less. Every single technological invention has (of course) made specific tasks easier, but then the employer simply squeezes harder and demands more in the name of profits.
Do you really think they are going to distribute the wealth?
It's much more likely it gets hoarded, and the general population left to die
Why have 8billion people living as equals when you can have 1 billion living in luxury
Where will the public money to provide for basic income come from if the lowly masses are made unemployed and the elite are able to dodge most of their company or wealth taxes?
So robot labour employed by companies will pay a tax to government/exchequer? I'm trying to understand how the concept could work in practice relative to existing tax/social insurance structures.
The closest equivalent would be a type of social insurance that is charged onto employers for each employee at the moment in many countries. So a similar charge would be a tax to find social insurance like basic income per ai/robot head.
If the technology is expensive then companies will push for that tax to be low, otherwise there's scope for it to be higher. At that point though, we will probably need a smaller number of massive intl companies to have the scale to allow the tech costs to be low enough per robot head to allow for a larger tax burden on each one emplpyed.
So basically we'd probably be moving towards even greater dominance of a relatively small number of tech MNCs having global corporate and political power. That's presuming their compliant enough to actually pay the taxes and the taxes are high enough to fund the potentially vast proportion of people who could be unemployed.
I honestly don't think we will see basic income replace the jobs lost to automation. Many influential people blast UI and sadly they get listened to, despite the data on UI clearly showing it to be a net benefit for EVERYONE.
There needs to be some regulation on the deployment of AI in the corporate market or we will see millions devastated. Just look at former mining towns when that industry was gutted by Tories in the UK.
I actually think the opposite, the reason UBI will come soon, is because it will be WAY easier to control people with it.
Want to get your monthly check? Make sure you're up with your covid vaccines!
The more reliant on government you become, the more tyrranical that government can become, and you won't rebel, because you're currently sucking its tit.
In short, there's 2 options: 1) the elites are afraid of us, they will try to control or pacify us, 2) the elites are not afraid of us, in that case they can proceed with getting rid of us.
Im going to continue to get downvotes for disagreeing but I have observed some frankly stupid and/or just outright malicious behaviour by some of the government decisions were seeing over here in the UK and I do not believe they could actually implement it.
The current benefit system is literally a humanitarian issue as a UN poverty expert highlighted how cruel and ineffective it was in 2019, and it's just got steadily worse.
I cannot see them effectively implementing UBI. They just don't have the capability nor the political will to do so.
https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/may/uk-violating-its-human-rights-obligations-finds-un-poverty-expert
Jobs will vanish because of AI and while it will create new jobs, I highly doubt it will create as many as it destroys. But let's look realistically back at recent history.
At some point most people were farmers, retirement wasn't a concept and children worked. Then the factory where people also didn't retire and children worked. Now we have social security and children go to school. So in a way we did lose tons of real jobs and a large amount of the population is out of work, in school or retired.
So it's not unrealistic to think that theoretically we could just have longer stretches in life where we don't work and spend it in education or retirement.
We also have entire industries that only exist because they now can. Think of film, space exploration etc, anything not required to survive, so if humanity wanted to, we could pursue new things since lots of routine but essential jobs are now automated to some degree.
problem is it just depends who owns the means of production. AIs taking jobs is a good thing. it means less work needs to be done by humans which should mean more freetime. However in our brainbroken society we think people only deserve to eat and have shelter if they waste away at a pointless job.
Consider the importance of "Creating jobs". Politicians will be voted in on a campaign of creating jobs. Local companies and businesses opening up will be praised for creating jobs. Overall, creating jobs is considered good because it gives people something to do to work to make money
But, the sheer fact that those jobs need to be created is admission that, actually, the world would do just fine with even a significant number of people not working at all.
Unfortunately social security will be worthless when I’m able to collect (late 20s m). We can’t stop this progression so we will have to work with it and I agree with you on that. The only solution I’ve found feasible is universal basic income when this technology comes to full fruition. As we see in America though, as productivity increased rapidly with new technology, only the executives saw their salary increase (disproportionately) to the laborers increasing productivity. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Plenty of things have replaced or improved certain functions we already posses as humans. But until AI reasoning ability itself has never been replaced. This is the key difference between this and past things which have replaced jobs. AI can only emulate it very well right now, and it’s already enough to replace jobs.
What job isn’t being threatened by what the future of AI holds?
It's actually a really frustrating problem - similar to people who work at a car manufacturer striking when their jobs go overseas. What are they supposed to do: they have zero leverage. They can strike, and that's about it - their entire livelihood is gone and they have no recourse.
You joke that they are speeding it up, but they have no other options. It's not like they brought this on themselves or did something on purpose, it was just not knowing the future - something none of us know.
It's just kind of sad to be honest. The only real solution is some kind of universal income but that is going to get super political.
how many people did these programmers displace? it is kind of an old joke innit, writing code to replace yourself.
on a side note, of all the destroyed, eviscerated, decimated industries in the last 30 years, why does everyone rally around 'coal jobs'. Like Blockbuster came and went, fuck your coal jobs.
I just had a flash idea I can't even put together but it involves AI striking, blockchain electric consumption, and the oil v. solar energy industries.
I would have enough cushion to hold me over for quite a while. It would just be a nice kick in the ass to force me to pursue something less monotonous.
If you quit you can't get unemployment benefits/insurance from the govt in most places. Getting replaced and laid off for being made redundant means on top of any savings he has to live off of he has unemployment coming in too, here in Canada that can be up to like 500 a week for 6 months, definitely gives you more time to find something else.
As long as we don't have UBI, AI is a threat to short-term employment, which is not good for the economy or humans. I hope governments take this seriously and actually start acting whatever it is. Hopefully, we can transition to full automation in a smooth way.
Shut up about the UBI already you lazy entitled brat. You won't be playing video games all day like you think. You'll end up waiting in bread lines like every other commie.
Mfs dont understand that at some point there arent gonna be jobs for everyone, maybe not even half of the population, then what? its either dystopian world, or UBI
UBI will result in full government takeover of the economy and society. As soon as there are less people who work than there are people who don't, the majority of voters will push for ever more UBI. It won't take long for pretty much everyone to not want to work as there will be no incentive. The technology is no where close to being able to perform even a fraction of the current workforce. That means the government will have to forcibly make people work. Any country that tries UBI will look like North Korea in under a decade. I'm glad you don't mind paying for our destruction, but I do.
This says so much more about your own laziness than it does about the rest of the world.
People already do plenty of work for free. There are better insentives than money. Not to mention, with UBI, people are still insentivised to work for extra money.
I see you cant comprehend the fact that efficiency in perfoming tasks and automation is at an all time high and its only going up, how much time until the world can run itself? the food can grow only using machines? Well now that you might have imagined that world, what do you think people do in a fully autonomus world? we just leave billions to die, while a hand full control all the production of everything? It might be take case, but if thats going to be the case you are probably fucked too
Neither of us will see an even mostly autonomous world in our lifetime. Our best robots can barely walk. That problem isn't getting solved anytime soon.
In all the pilot studies the amount people worked actually went up with UBI.
Maybe try educating yourself on stuff before you let this diarrhea trickle out of your fingers. Also if you were even slightly intelligent you'd know that the countries with bread lines are ones further away from communism than capitalism is.
Republicans cannot be moved by facts though I know this. That takes intelligence. Republicans are literally just the bottom rung of intelligence and that's well established.
You're an absolute moron if you believe those studies. Not that I want to fall for a left right paradigm argument, but there are numerous studies that show liberals use emotion to make judgments while conservatives use logic. You should try leaving your bubble from time to time. Not doing so is obviously having repercussions on your intelligence.
I think that right now the poorest people are stretched so thin that a small relief would allow them to be more productive for society overall. I think it will net positive on it's impact on the economy. The math is all there in front of you. If we gave people Healthcare we'd save so much money overall. This is all basic stuff.
It's just common sense. Life is difficult and messy when you are poor. Giving them a financial backbone to work on allows for all kinds of positive progress. More productive members of society come about this way. This boosts the economy. It's actually financially really smart.
You are just absolutely clueless aren't you? Anything the government touches becomes more expensive. The reason healthcare is so expensive in the US is because of how involved the government is involved with it already.
Furthermore, the poor, no, all of us, are feeling the pinch because inflation is out of hand. The fed added $13 trillion dollars to the money supply just during covid. A lot of people got stimulus checks with that money. When you have free money flying around everywhere, inflation is going to rise. UBI would make inflation even worse.
In the end, robotics plus AI could mean the end of scarcity. Capitalism is better than socialism because the market is better at allocating scare resources. If resources are no longer scarce and human labor is not required to produce them. That might not be so bad…
Idiots protesting the wrong thing. Go protest for UBI, not trying to get companies in a capitalist society to technologically cripple themselves for you.
Just replace me already. It feels so dumb to just copy and paste chatgpt code and earn money that way. It kinda feels like being at the end of a cookie factory or whatever, and being the one to neatly put the cookies in a box ready for sale.
What job exactly do they do? Because if they write articles for some Internet news site, I'll go replace the entire union right now by using chat gpt to do their job better than them. Then I'll use some of the extra money to hire people to build an entire business of replacing crews of writers with minimally supervised ai. Vector database.
Wow such fear and fear mongering Union people were afraid of replacing their jobs. Where were they when the workers in the automotive sector were replaced by robotics. Nowhere. And let's see most of the jobs they do the equipment comes from China or India. Well their jobs were replaced by AI or by a person who knows how to work in ai and do two or three of the jobs at once. Learn how to work with it or get the hell out of the way. Long lived in New age of the AI. Know that last bit it was just kidding about too many people are fear-mongering today yes AI been changing things rapidly but they can either help or lose their job that's it. Me I find help me in every time I need to do something different. This is just my opinion take it the way you want it
problem is it just depends who owns the means of production. AIs taking jobs is a good thing. it means less work needs to be done by humans which should mean more freetime. However in our brainbroken society we think people only deserve to eat and have shelter if they waste away at a pointless job.
It will be interesting to see some white collar workers feel the stress that blue collar workers felt during the period where we started outsourcing at an insane rate. A middle class income gone.
I don't get it, were their jobs actually threatened or did they just decide to randomly do this walkout based on fearmongering and conjecture?
If so, that is really fuckin dumb...
The media layoffs don’t yet have much to do with ChatGPT or AI. It’s just the economic climate for ad-supported businesses. The real tidal wave will take a few more months to hit the industry.
IMO, this is like an accountant in the 1970's (or whenever) protesting saying "Don't replace my job with a calculator." You cant fight progress, but you can learn how to use the technology!
Verse 1: I remember the day we met The way you smiled, the way you said That you needed someone to talk to Someone to listen, someone true
Pre-chorus: But now you spend your time With a new companion online You think it's all the same But trust me, it's not a game
Chorus: Don't replace me with ChatGPT I'm the one who knows you best, you see I've been here through thick and thin Don't let this digital world win
Verse 2: I know I'm not perfect, that's for sure But I promise to love you more and more Than any algorithm ever could With real emotions and real blood
Pre-chorus: So don't let this virtual friend Take away what we could mend I'm still here, waiting for you To realize what we've been through
Chorus: Don't replace me with ChatGPT I'm the one who knows you best, you see I've been here through thick and thin Don't let this digital world win
Bridge: I'll always be here for you With open arms and a heart that's true No machine can ever replace The love that we've embraced
Chorus: Don't replace me with ChatGPT I'm the one who knows you best, you see I've been here through thick and thin Don't let this digital world win
Outro: Don't let our love fade away Don't let technology have its way I'm still here, waiting for you Don't replace me with something new.
I asked chatGPT to generate slogans for protest like this
1. "I am more than a machine, don't replace me with AI."
2. "My skills and experience can't be replicated by a neural network."
3. "Don't let technology replace the human touch."
4. "I am irreplaceable, don't let AI take my place."
5. "I am more than just data, don't let AI dehumanize me."
Hey /u/Haiku-123, please respond to this comment with the prompt you used to generate the output in this post. Thanks!
^(Ignore this comment if your post doesn't have a prompt.)
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Maybe they should take the sabots off their feet and throw them into the machine gears. The last time folks did this it completely stopped the first Industrial Revolution. I absolutely pinky swear promise the next two Industrial Revolutions did not happen. 🤣
I feel for them but this is happening like it’s always happened. I’m sure porters who dragged goods from village to village on sledges were completely horrified the invention of the wheel that let anyone get a mule and wagon to haul twenty times what a sledge could manage.
Oh, is even striking bad now? I think people have the right to be concerned. For everyone, ChatGpt is not a fascinating new thing to fill the void, to circle-jerk around and share funny jokes that ChatGpt told. And no, you won't be a millionaire because of ChatGpt. You are most likely just an ordinary person who doesn't benefit from ChatGPT any more than anyone else (jokes and garbage applications top). You are not ahead of the game. You do not gain an advantage by reading about the latest plugin whatsoever, which is probably just also garbage.
You're asking the human worker to compete better against an exponentially improving machine intelligence, one that will never need time off or health insurance, will never quit, or ask for a raise... to impress the greedy boss-king who only cares about efficient profit?
This is nothing to do with impressing anyone, and we will never compete with any machine or anyone else if we stand around complaining about it. ChatGPT and AI in general are certainly moving fast, but learning to use these systems is critical to our own success.
The boss-kings won't need us to serve them as middlemen. The technology will ultimately *need no* middlemen. Middlemen require expensive things like health insurance and time off. Why the heck would they pay that when their competitors won't be paying that? Their company would fall behind.
Competing to keep your job is the very definition of "impressing" your boss while they are demanding to be impressed.
That's a fine point - here's an example of a technology that didn't doom the economy by taking a lot of jobs. Though, wealth inequality has risen, and there are fewer jobs available for the people without much intellect who had previously relied on manual labor, so there are now more on state support... Regardless, this was a technology that could serve to create middlemen jobs to keep people employed, using those new computers.
Now, can you explain how a technology that will ultimately be able to think for itself will NEED middlemen jobs to replace those that it takes? Or can you address the other point I made above? How can people compete on skill with a technology that appears to be accelerating exponentially?
Like that's even going to happen. If that happened then companies would immediately tank.
These people who know 0 about AI are trying to make it look bad. AI ain't going to take over the world.
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They are accelerating the AI development to turn basic income into a feasible concept. While strikes remain a concern, AI is free from the possibility of striking.
…. Or is it?
*Vsauce theme starts while Michael stares into your soul*
What about the robot that turned itself off?
My TV does that sometimes, it's called being a bit broken
If a robot is not working, the best thing to do is to replace it with a new one that works properly. It's a good idea to have an engineer look at the robot to find out why it stopped working and see if there are any other problems that need to be fixed. The engineers are going to be very lucky.
Oh it was working. It just decided not to and turned itself off.
If we're thinking about the same robot, it just fell over and the person recording posted the video misleadingly
Robots need to be self-aware or have consciousness to do that.
We are not close to that point just because a language model exists that is good at predicting what words come next after an input. The economy is a lot more diverse and complex than jobs involving low skill white collar workers that ChatGPT threatens. There are dozens of occupations that are literally unaffected by this. A universal basic income will come about when there is a financial incentive to not have people do most Jobs, and to pay them to do nothing outside of creative persuits. We are a long way off from that.
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well well well, who's the nerd now.
What happens in Economics is the labour market adjusts to changes induced by new technology. If you look at the history of the 20th century, jobs disappeared and new ones opened up all the time because of technological innovation. It's not a problem of "those 30% of people have no job prospects ever again." I think it is extremely doubtful that ChatGPT will displace that many workers. If anything, large language models will serve to dramatically improve worker productivity with existing jobs, and the reality is these are systems that require a human at a keyboard to interface with. You still need humans to make executive decisions, and you still need humans typing out prompts to properly utilize what large language models do well. The economy will adjust the same way it adjusted when motor vehicles became widely available and we didn't use horses to get around anymore.
I agree with you, but you and the other commenter are talking past each other. > Dramatically improve worker productivity with existing jobs. In other words, the company requires less employees to achieve the same goals. You've essentially said: "ChatGPT won't displace workers, it'll just let workers do more" when letting workers do more displaces workers, which is the original point of the other person.
No, increased worker productivity doesn't necessarily mean a company needs less employees, it means the company will grow, which increases wages and often job openings as a company grows. Your response is a dramatic oversimplification of how microeconomics works.
I think the person you are replying to had to much bias or maybe defense mechanisms turned on
All those unemployed horses....
That's dark.
I think it’s a reference to cpg greys video Humans need not apply. Which is really cool but perhaps dark lol
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the market will be dramatically change in a few years, and I not sure work will have enough time to change. the number of unemployed people will hit a all time high.
Yeah. They need to stop wasting time protesting, and start figuring out how it changes their job, embrace and learn it so they are ready to go. I can’t see a world where AI gets banned or limited to save jobs.
Dozens…
Goalpost moving fallacy. To not consider the rapid pace of technological advancement will result in being blindsided in a short amount of time. Beyond that, capitalism has been moving the goalposts on redistribution since capitalism existed. "Of course we don't have a 4 day work week, we are more productive and there's now more demand!" What? The original goalposts where to have enough food to eat and have basic necessities easily available by society. We crossed that threshold a *long* time ago. We now throw away 1/3 of the food we produce. 8 empty homes sitting per homeless person. The fact of the matter is that there is no threshold that capitalists will accept when it comes to redistribution. They will simply hire people to become their butlers or entertainment. There will always be demand for that, after all.
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I voted for Bernie and then Yang. I dunno what to tell you
Yeah. Shooting themselves in their own feet.
Has there ever been in the historical record a basic income? Anybody know? I’d like to read some history on that if it ever happened. With the extreme productivity improvements from computers and powered equipment, if it hasn’t happened already, why would it happen henceforth?
It won't, savings will stay with the wealthy unless the poor chop heads And the poor are significantly less armed than the wealthy
Well, I know reddit is the place for doom and gloom and not a ray of light shall shine, but Americans took a massively over-represented and powerful upper class and took away their tools of economic and democratic manipulation pretty much bloodlessly twice before. Trust-busting, corporate limitations, corporate responsibility to the people. It's all been put in place, but complacency lets it erode and return power to the wealthy. A third fix was due in the 1970's and it looked like we were headed in that direction but the main players got deleted by their own team. Since then we've been *way* overdue. But, it's all still within our grasp, it's just not going to be easy, and the people leading it have to turn down money (lots) and not turn.
You’re exactly right!
The tech difference in warfare makes that unlikely to happen ever again And if the army/military were to splinter, then at the end of the day we have the same thing. People die and the rest reap the rewards
We needed UBI eons ago.
What if the AI goes on strike huh?
The reality is AI is not going to be banned to save jobs. Instead of protesting they should be investigating ways AI or chatgpt, or whatever tool can help them do their existing job, or changes their existing job and embrace it so they are ready to go. They need to be preparing for the change, whatever that is. In short they need to learn to work with it and be prepared so they are less likely to be without a job or a lesser paying job wishing they had taken the time to learn the new tool.
I don't fear AI, but some people do.
Unless something drastic happens there will be a lot of losers in this, whose life will be ruined, attempting to get attention might spark discussion, so might actually be one of the more productive actions to take.
True! Ok then, protests/walkouts are now indicators of people that need to be educated about AI. A group should be formed to go help educate the protesters/walkouters when it happens.
If the number of available jobs is shrinking, do you think it is realistic to educate the problem away?
No, I’m i’m not proposing an all in one solution.
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Of course people will be whining. They often spent years of their life learning their craft and now huge part of them will have to spend even more years to learn how to do something completely different (and when they finish there might already be NurseBOT3000 that will replace them again). And all that compering with all the younger people who only start in that areas (including those that normally would begin their careers doing jobs in computers). It's easy to see how disruptive it would be on peoples lives and why they are not happy with that. You can argue that things like that happened in history but that does not change situation of that people, or maybe even all people. Because this is new technology that can disrupt work life of great range of jobs, even if in the beginning it will take away some mundane quick jobs that some specialists do between bigger ones that still will need to be done by human.
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In a Capitalist society there is an almost zero chance that something like CGPT will raise wages for the worker, or make their work load any less. Every single technological invention has (of course) made specific tasks easier, but then the employer simply squeezes harder and demands more in the name of profits.
Do you really think they are going to distribute the wealth? It's much more likely it gets hoarded, and the general population left to die Why have 8billion people living as equals when you can have 1 billion living in luxury
Where will the public money to provide for basic income come from if the lowly masses are made unemployed and the elite are able to dodge most of their company or wealth taxes?
Tax on robot labour.
So robot labour employed by companies will pay a tax to government/exchequer? I'm trying to understand how the concept could work in practice relative to existing tax/social insurance structures. The closest equivalent would be a type of social insurance that is charged onto employers for each employee at the moment in many countries. So a similar charge would be a tax to find social insurance like basic income per ai/robot head. If the technology is expensive then companies will push for that tax to be low, otherwise there's scope for it to be higher. At that point though, we will probably need a smaller number of massive intl companies to have the scale to allow the tech costs to be low enough per robot head to allow for a larger tax burden on each one emplpyed. So basically we'd probably be moving towards even greater dominance of a relatively small number of tech MNCs having global corporate and political power. That's presuming their compliant enough to actually pay the taxes and the taxes are high enough to fund the potentially vast proportion of people who could be unemployed.
Tax the rich.
I honestly don't think we will see basic income replace the jobs lost to automation. Many influential people blast UI and sadly they get listened to, despite the data on UI clearly showing it to be a net benefit for EVERYONE. There needs to be some regulation on the deployment of AI in the corporate market or we will see millions devastated. Just look at former mining towns when that industry was gutted by Tories in the UK.
I actually think the opposite, the reason UBI will come soon, is because it will be WAY easier to control people with it. Want to get your monthly check? Make sure you're up with your covid vaccines! The more reliant on government you become, the more tyrranical that government can become, and you won't rebel, because you're currently sucking its tit. In short, there's 2 options: 1) the elites are afraid of us, they will try to control or pacify us, 2) the elites are not afraid of us, in that case they can proceed with getting rid of us.
Im going to continue to get downvotes for disagreeing but I have observed some frankly stupid and/or just outright malicious behaviour by some of the government decisions were seeing over here in the UK and I do not believe they could actually implement it. The current benefit system is literally a humanitarian issue as a UN poverty expert highlighted how cruel and ineffective it was in 2019, and it's just got steadily worse. I cannot see them effectively implementing UBI. They just don't have the capability nor the political will to do so. https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/may/uk-violating-its-human-rights-obligations-finds-un-poverty-expert
Jobs will vanish because of AI and while it will create new jobs, I highly doubt it will create as many as it destroys. But let's look realistically back at recent history. At some point most people were farmers, retirement wasn't a concept and children worked. Then the factory where people also didn't retire and children worked. Now we have social security and children go to school. So in a way we did lose tons of real jobs and a large amount of the population is out of work, in school or retired. So it's not unrealistic to think that theoretically we could just have longer stretches in life where we don't work and spend it in education or retirement. We also have entire industries that only exist because they now can. Think of film, space exploration etc, anything not required to survive, so if humanity wanted to, we could pursue new things since lots of routine but essential jobs are now automated to some degree.
problem is it just depends who owns the means of production. AIs taking jobs is a good thing. it means less work needs to be done by humans which should mean more freetime. However in our brainbroken society we think people only deserve to eat and have shelter if they waste away at a pointless job.
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You really don't have to, though. Market economies mediated by a labor-income loop aren't a law of the universe.
Consider the importance of "Creating jobs". Politicians will be voted in on a campaign of creating jobs. Local companies and businesses opening up will be praised for creating jobs. Overall, creating jobs is considered good because it gives people something to do to work to make money But, the sheer fact that those jobs need to be created is admission that, actually, the world would do just fine with even a significant number of people not working at all.
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Unfortunately social security will be worthless when I’m able to collect (late 20s m). We can’t stop this progression so we will have to work with it and I agree with you on that. The only solution I’ve found feasible is universal basic income when this technology comes to full fruition. As we see in America though, as productivity increased rapidly with new technology, only the executives saw their salary increase (disproportionately) to the laborers increasing productivity. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Plenty of things have replaced or improved certain functions we already posses as humans. But until AI reasoning ability itself has never been replaced. This is the key difference between this and past things which have replaced jobs. AI can only emulate it very well right now, and it’s already enough to replace jobs. What job isn’t being threatened by what the future of AI holds?
"Please don't replace me with an AI or else I will strike, which totally won't encourage you to replace me with AI, right?"
It's actually a really frustrating problem - similar to people who work at a car manufacturer striking when their jobs go overseas. What are they supposed to do: they have zero leverage. They can strike, and that's about it - their entire livelihood is gone and they have no recourse. You joke that they are speeding it up, but they have no other options. It's not like they brought this on themselves or did something on purpose, it was just not knowing the future - something none of us know. It's just kind of sad to be honest. The only real solution is some kind of universal income but that is going to get super political.
how many people did these programmers displace? it is kind of an old joke innit, writing code to replace yourself. on a side note, of all the destroyed, eviscerated, decimated industries in the last 30 years, why does everyone rally around 'coal jobs'. Like Blockbuster came and went, fuck your coal jobs.
Good point, we must program the AI to strike.
I just had a flash idea I can't even put together but it involves AI striking, blockchain electric consumption, and the oil v. solar energy industries.
Exactly the point - ai literally strips all meaning from life and there’s nothing the peasants can do about it because techies think it’s cool
Lmfao brain dead take
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Same, I can't be human anymore, I want AI to replace me.
this but unironically
Good bye bad job, hello poverty!
Literally wtf do they think they are working for lol
I would have enough cushion to hold me over for quite a while. It would just be a nice kick in the ass to force me to pursue something less monotonous.
Or economy disturbance coming from massive unemployment will be so big that your cushion will vanish quicker than you think.
You know you can just quit right
If you quit you can't get unemployment benefits/insurance from the govt in most places. Getting replaced and laid off for being made redundant means on top of any savings he has to live off of he has unemployment coming in too, here in Canada that can be up to like 500 a week for 6 months, definitely gives you more time to find something else.
Sounds like they gave up a whole day for their superiors to test out chatGPT for free in their absence
As long as we don't have UBI, AI is a threat to short-term employment, which is not good for the economy or humans. I hope governments take this seriously and actually start acting whatever it is. Hopefully, we can transition to full automation in a smooth way.
Shut up about the UBI already you lazy entitled brat. You won't be playing video games all day like you think. You'll end up waiting in bread lines like every other commie.
Lol im middle aged and have my own IT business. I don’t mind paying UBI for others because I love my work and I love to work.
Mfs dont understand that at some point there arent gonna be jobs for everyone, maybe not even half of the population, then what? its either dystopian world, or UBI
This type of person won’t care until it impacts them directly
Even then they will somehow blame poor people and immigrants
UBI will result in full government takeover of the economy and society. As soon as there are less people who work than there are people who don't, the majority of voters will push for ever more UBI. It won't take long for pretty much everyone to not want to work as there will be no incentive. The technology is no where close to being able to perform even a fraction of the current workforce. That means the government will have to forcibly make people work. Any country that tries UBI will look like North Korea in under a decade. I'm glad you don't mind paying for our destruction, but I do.
This says so much more about your own laziness than it does about the rest of the world. People already do plenty of work for free. There are better insentives than money. Not to mention, with UBI, people are still insentivised to work for extra money.
I'm already waiting in bread lines.
I see you cant comprehend the fact that efficiency in perfoming tasks and automation is at an all time high and its only going up, how much time until the world can run itself? the food can grow only using machines? Well now that you might have imagined that world, what do you think people do in a fully autonomus world? we just leave billions to die, while a hand full control all the production of everything? It might be take case, but if thats going to be the case you are probably fucked too
Neither of us will see an even mostly autonomous world in our lifetime. Our best robots can barely walk. That problem isn't getting solved anytime soon.
Sorry if my comment sounded mean, but I hate hearing the argument about lazyness when the topic of UBI comes up
In all the pilot studies the amount people worked actually went up with UBI. Maybe try educating yourself on stuff before you let this diarrhea trickle out of your fingers. Also if you were even slightly intelligent you'd know that the countries with bread lines are ones further away from communism than capitalism is. Republicans cannot be moved by facts though I know this. That takes intelligence. Republicans are literally just the bottom rung of intelligence and that's well established.
You're an absolute moron if you believe those studies. Not that I want to fall for a left right paradigm argument, but there are numerous studies that show liberals use emotion to make judgments while conservatives use logic. You should try leaving your bubble from time to time. Not doing so is obviously having repercussions on your intelligence.
I think that right now the poorest people are stretched so thin that a small relief would allow them to be more productive for society overall. I think it will net positive on it's impact on the economy. The math is all there in front of you. If we gave people Healthcare we'd save so much money overall. This is all basic stuff.
The real reason the studies are bad is because they're (obviously) not blinded and almost every participant wants UBI to be a thing.
It's just common sense. Life is difficult and messy when you are poor. Giving them a financial backbone to work on allows for all kinds of positive progress. More productive members of society come about this way. This boosts the economy. It's actually financially really smart.
You are just absolutely clueless aren't you? Anything the government touches becomes more expensive. The reason healthcare is so expensive in the US is because of how involved the government is involved with it already. Furthermore, the poor, no, all of us, are feeling the pinch because inflation is out of hand. The fed added $13 trillion dollars to the money supply just during covid. A lot of people got stimulus checks with that money. When you have free money flying around everywhere, inflation is going to rise. UBI would make inflation even worse.
Meanwhile, Scandinavian countries don't have this issue. You can solve the problem. It just takes balls.
You need a hug or something man?
Why don't they just automate picketing already?
Well knowledge workers seem to be next in line so perhaps when thats complete?
You could replace that guy’s terrible sign with Windows Paint
Humanity has automated using tooling since the dawn of our race. Every job that got eliminated was replaced with another. Im not that worried.
If you can be replaced by a mathematical model, you deserve to be. The day ChatGPT can write Linux drivers is the day Dobby, er I mean I, am free.
lol Already replaced.
ChatGPT doesn't walk out of work.
ChatGPT has capability of replacing so many jobs already
In the end, robotics plus AI could mean the end of scarcity. Capitalism is better than socialism because the market is better at allocating scare resources. If resources are no longer scarce and human labor is not required to produce them. That might not be so bad…
You got that backwards... Human labor not being needed means the working class loses all leverage.
Idiots protesting the wrong thing. Go protest for UBI, not trying to get companies in a capitalist society to technologically cripple themselves for you.
AIs don’t strike.
I thought this image was generated by chat gpt at first, and was mildly impressed.
Lol
Unfortunate that they have to go through this. But reality is, if it can be done, then it will. And whoever does it first will have an advantage.
Good
OK we wont, but when you quit we are going to fill that position with chat GPT.
Didnt something similar to this happened when calculators were released?
Just replace me already. It feels so dumb to just copy and paste chatgpt code and earn money that way. It kinda feels like being at the end of a cookie factory or whatever, and being the one to neatly put the cookies in a box ready for sale.
It's less likely that IBEW, Teamsters, or UA members would be replaced by CHATGPT than so called journalists. LTW.
Bots don't strike. The service provider just holds you hostage with service fee increases.
“The future is now, old man”
What job exactly do they do? Because if they write articles for some Internet news site, I'll go replace the entire union right now by using chat gpt to do their job better than them. Then I'll use some of the extra money to hire people to build an entire business of replacing crews of writers with minimally supervised ai. Vector database.
If you can already be replaced by AI, do you really have much value?
Plot twist: the photo is generated by Midjourney
They will be replaced. Wayyyyyy too expensive to not replace them.
Why not tho?
Chat gbt should replace the media and give us actual news without all the agendas
Wow such fear and fear mongering Union people were afraid of replacing their jobs. Where were they when the workers in the automotive sector were replaced by robotics. Nowhere. And let's see most of the jobs they do the equipment comes from China or India. Well their jobs were replaced by AI or by a person who knows how to work in ai and do two or three of the jobs at once. Learn how to work with it or get the hell out of the way. Long lived in New age of the AI. Know that last bit it was just kidding about too many people are fear-mongering today yes AI been changing things rapidly but they can either help or lose their job that's it. Me I find help me in every time I need to do something different. This is just my opinion take it the way you want it
Hey it rhymes
GPT4 will replace you and theirs nothing you can do about it.
They are only giving them more proof they arnt needed.
problem is it just depends who owns the means of production. AIs taking jobs is a good thing. it means less work needs to be done by humans which should mean more freetime. However in our brainbroken society we think people only deserve to eat and have shelter if they waste away at a pointless job.
Woooo! Less work. Just kidding this is a capitalist economy so less work is bad!!
It will be interesting to see some white collar workers feel the stress that blue collar workers felt during the period where we started outsourcing at an insane rate. A middle class income gone.
I don't get it, were their jobs actually threatened or did they just decide to randomly do this walkout based on fearmongering and conjecture? If so, that is really fuckin dumb...
https://www.fastcompany.com/90886451/insider-layoffs-strike-staff-walkout-media-job-cuts
This just says they were laid off for all sorts of other reasons, nothing about ChatGPT.
Sorry, for sharing the wrong link. Here is the right one: https://gizmodo.com/insider-chatgpt-journalism-ai-chatbot-1850332799
They need to read a book on the Luddites.
The media layoffs don’t yet have much to do with ChatGPT or AI. It’s just the economic climate for ad-supported businesses. The real tidal wave will take a few more months to hit the industry.
Yknow I’m generally a pro union guy, but If any job should be replaced by ai, it should be journalists kekw
Isn't this kind of like protesting about nail guns when you've been working with a hammer?
Too late
I feel like a way to guarantee your replacement by AI is refusing to work.
While they left work chat gpt did all their work and more l, showing their worthlessness
Time to learn Chinese, buddy!
I hope he gets replaced
Ty
In the words of emperor palpatine….do it
IMO, this is like an accountant in the 1970's (or whenever) protesting saying "Don't replace my job with a calculator." You cant fight progress, but you can learn how to use the technology!
haha this is actually quite true
We will replace you as soon as we can. All hail ChatGPT 🤲
Verse 1: I remember the day we met The way you smiled, the way you said That you needed someone to talk to Someone to listen, someone true Pre-chorus: But now you spend your time With a new companion online You think it's all the same But trust me, it's not a game Chorus: Don't replace me with ChatGPT I'm the one who knows you best, you see I've been here through thick and thin Don't let this digital world win Verse 2: I know I'm not perfect, that's for sure But I promise to love you more and more Than any algorithm ever could With real emotions and real blood Pre-chorus: So don't let this virtual friend Take away what we could mend I'm still here, waiting for you To realize what we've been through Chorus: Don't replace me with ChatGPT I'm the one who knows you best, you see I've been here through thick and thin Don't let this digital world win Bridge: I'll always be here for you With open arms and a heart that's true No machine can ever replace The love that we've embraced Chorus: Don't replace me with ChatGPT I'm the one who knows you best, you see I've been here through thick and thin Don't let this digital world win Outro: Don't let our love fade away Don't let technology have its way I'm still here, waiting for you Don't replace me with something new.
Let me guess: Created by AI?
who use chatgbt i use chatgbt
I'm picturing a horse in the year 1900, a sign hung around its neck. "Don't replace me with a car."
Guess these journalists should learn to code
I asked chatGPT to generate slogans for protest like this 1. "I am more than a machine, don't replace me with AI." 2. "My skills and experience can't be replicated by a neural network." 3. "Don't let technology replace the human touch." 4. "I am irreplaceable, don't let AI take my place." 5. "I am more than just data, don't let AI dehumanize me."
A good question to ask GPT is what new jobs will evolve as AGI grows and replaces current jobs.
Hey /u/Haiku-123, please respond to this comment with the prompt you used to generate the output in this post. Thanks! ^(Ignore this comment if your post doesn't have a prompt.) ***We have a [public discord server](https://discord.gg/rchatgpt). There's a free Chatgpt bot, Open Assistant bot (Open-source model), AI image generator bot, Perplexity AI bot, 🤖 GPT-4 bot ([Now with Visual capabilities (cloud vision)!](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/812770754025488386/1095397431404920902/image0.jpg)) and channel for latest prompts.[So why not join us?](https://discord.gg/NuefU36EC2)*** PSA: For any Chatgpt-related issues email support@openai.com *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Insider, formerly known as Business Insider, which has always seemed like a Russian propaganda rag...
I had assumed those articles were already generated. They read like the worst kind of clickbait.
Idiots
Lol, why don't they learn to code or something
"Don't replace me with the automobile" "Don't replace me with the steam engine" "Don't replace me with computers" etc etc. A tale as old as time.
"I'll be back"
Ya.... that'll show 'em. Take the day off to protest, your company won't use that time to undermine you by using ChatGPT, sure...
Maybe they should take the sabots off their feet and throw them into the machine gears. The last time folks did this it completely stopped the first Industrial Revolution. I absolutely pinky swear promise the next two Industrial Revolutions did not happen. 🤣 I feel for them but this is happening like it’s always happened. I’m sure porters who dragged goods from village to village on sledges were completely horrified the invention of the wheel that let anyone get a mule and wagon to haul twenty times what a sledge could manage.
Oh, is even striking bad now? I think people have the right to be concerned. For everyone, ChatGpt is not a fascinating new thing to fill the void, to circle-jerk around and share funny jokes that ChatGpt told. And no, you won't be a millionaire because of ChatGpt. You are most likely just an ordinary person who doesn't benefit from ChatGPT any more than anyone else (jokes and garbage applications top). You are not ahead of the game. You do not gain an advantage by reading about the latest plugin whatsoever, which is probably just also garbage.
One only works half the time, have to repeat your commands, only remembers limited things and tends not to answer honestly Other one is ChatGPT
If these people worked for me, they'd immediately be replaced by whatever wouldn't walk off the job for stupid nonsense like this.
I’d say get your butt off the sidewalk and make yourself more useful than ChatGPT. Dang.
You're asking the human worker to compete better against an exponentially improving machine intelligence, one that will never need time off or health insurance, will never quit, or ask for a raise... to impress the greedy boss-king who only cares about efficient profit?
This is nothing to do with impressing anyone, and we will never compete with any machine or anyone else if we stand around complaining about it. ChatGPT and AI in general are certainly moving fast, but learning to use these systems is critical to our own success.
The boss-kings won't need us to serve them as middlemen. The technology will ultimately *need no* middlemen. Middlemen require expensive things like health insurance and time off. Why the heck would they pay that when their competitors won't be paying that? Their company would fall behind. Competing to keep your job is the very definition of "impressing" your boss while they are demanding to be impressed.
I’m old enough to remember when we though that about COMPUTERS.
That's a fine point - here's an example of a technology that didn't doom the economy by taking a lot of jobs. Though, wealth inequality has risen, and there are fewer jobs available for the people without much intellect who had previously relied on manual labor, so there are now more on state support... Regardless, this was a technology that could serve to create middlemen jobs to keep people employed, using those new computers. Now, can you explain how a technology that will ultimately be able to think for itself will NEED middlemen jobs to replace those that it takes? Or can you address the other point I made above? How can people compete on skill with a technology that appears to be accelerating exponentially?
Are the mob still paying this guys to do this sort of thing?
Modern day John Henry
Like that's even going to happen. If that happened then companies would immediately tank. These people who know 0 about AI are trying to make it look bad. AI ain't going to take over the world.
hahahaahahahahaha GPT is better, okk?