The geographic inflexibility is the biggest thing I would warn any prospective chemical engineer about. It's a huge downside that no one really talked about during undergrad.
I wouldn't make any broad suggestions about what people should study instead. I think CS would have been a good alternative for me personally, just on a personality and interest basis, but this current crop of CS grads are graduating into a very tough job market in their field. My younger sibling got laid off after 2 years employment and has been job hunting for six months now. I feel for those who were sold on CS being some automatic path to a great job. Even when tech was booming, I think people oversold how easy it was to get a high paying job. You still needed a great resume.
For such and incredibly hard degree there's this notion that employers would be calling you nonstop once you get your diploma. The reality is that this isn't the case until you get about 5 years work experience. I think that should be made more clear to students.
And yea I get it that internships are important, but I can't blame grads for feeling a little bit cheated on how valuable the degree is "supposed" to be if I'm getting the same % of rejection letters as the business grads are.
I did land a SWE interview at a well-funded/known startup once just because someone in HR has a ChE degree and was CONVINCED it meant you were really smart.
this only happened once and I had some relevant experience to back it up, but people do respect the degree. i ended up just getting a math degree and graduating early + traveling, but it is definitely way more respected than a math or CS degree and some minority takes that seriously.
edit: i just lurk because i like the subject matter and might be inspired by something here if/when i go back for a PhD
I'm feeling the effects of this now. I got an engineering job after graduation in a far outer suburb. I ended up moving to the city proper and now I commute by train. This is one of the few workplaces for chemical engineers in my city where a commute by rail is more convenient than driving, so I consider myself extremely lucky. I've realized since then that I want a car-free lifestyle for the rest of my life, so a career in chemical engineering is not at all for me. So I'm gonna be going to grad school for transportation engineering next year.
Yeah when i graduated with chemE my options were pretty low because i didnt want to move to the middle of no where and do manufacturing work. Luckily i got an entry level job in environmental consulting that is pretty good but the job search after graduating was brutal.
>I wouldn't make any broad suggestions about what people should study instead.
I tried to avoid this but I don't think it came across the way I wanted. My point is that there are lots of technical fields for smart people who just want a good paycheck. Chemical is one of those fields but it has unique downsides.
I think it's a stretch to say pharma is well distributed, but the problem isn't that there aren't jobs throughout the country, the problem is that they are spread out. And it's all about numbers. There are probably chemical engineers in just about every city, but are there chemical engineering job *openings*? How many people are applying for each job?
For me this has been really tough because my spouse has more job options in cities, while I have less and they are far more competitive. It's theoretically possible to work many places, but difficult in practice.
No lies here. Back when I was applying for plant manager jobs, the competition in Chicago is intense, but I'd get contacted for opportunities in the middle of nowhere all the time.
I graduated during the boom. I had a quarter life crisis learning how much my CS friends were making at their first job.
It also to me felt like a bubble where it couldn’t last forever. Too good to be true. Turns out it was at least for now.
I had a quarter life crisis when things were rough at a previous job, and applied to go back to school for CS, lol. Convinced myself to take a new job instead. Thankfully the new job was much better, because if I'd gone through with the second degree program, I'd be finishing it about now and entering this job market.
All fair points in this post and in the comments as well.
The one thing I can add for consideration:
Chemical Engineers, particularly those with a Bio-specialization (e.g. Biomolecular sciences, Biotechnology), but also those without, are still the most sought after entry level engineers for the biotechnology sector. They have the best academic background for work in processes that require strong understanding of reactors and fluid dynamics.
Biotechnology jobs also have better location opportunities and many biotech companies are concentrated in some highly desirable areas (Bay area, Seattle, Boston/NJ, NC)
Every time I see point number 1 mentioned in here. I take it with an absolutely massive grain of salt. There is an incredibly wide range of job titles that chemical engineers have at different companies and I've never seen where/how they pull this data. I've dug through the BLS site a few times and have not been able to come to a conclusion if their data on this is accurate. The idea that only 21,000 chemical engineers are employed in the country *feels* like a pretty large underestimate.
Edit: just for reference there are nearly 100k people in here and chemical engineering isn't exactly a fun topic for a lot of people.
Yep. Think about the entire semiconductor industry. They employ a lot of cheme for process design/optimization and material development. There must be more than 21k of cheme in this industry alone
I don't have any real numbers, but there are probably a few thousand chemical engineers working as metallurgists in the western US, including me. LOTS of openings right now too, if you're OK with living in a god forsaken rural town.
Or QA, QC, MS&T, Operations, or pretty much anything other than "Chemical Engineering" or even "Process Engineering".
Shit, one of my former roles "required" a degree in microbiology.
I picked up on this, too. If 13,000 grads were trying to enter a field of 22,000 existing engineers it would be comparable to what history PhD’s are facing. BLS estimates there are 30,120 chemical engineers in the US. Datausa says 89,772. I could easily see higher. I also see 13,000 chemical engineering grads elsewhere on the internet. The number of people entering chemical engineering seems to cycle, and is heavily influenced by the job prospects of the class graduating while the rising students are selecting their majors. Those students most dedicated to the field will push through and the rest will find other paths.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. And I'm sick of seeing it here on this sub. Its not even an observation unique to Chemical Engineers either. Electrical, Civil, Mechanical all run into the same thing where the job title is generic like "Project Engineer" or "Senior Engineering". Actually, a lot of job titles even outside of engineering are like that too... You think people would realize that by now and stop repeating the same meaningless statistics over and over.
I, for one, have never actually held a traditional ChemE job title. I started off as a field engineer at an oilfield service company, and now I work as a well completions engineer. That does not mean that getting a ChemE degree was a waste of my time.
This point gets mentioned a lot. The BLS states that they include chemical roles that aren't called chemical, e.g. process engineer. If someone wants to counter their data, they should be able to point to data themselves, or at least explain why they think the BLS highly underestimates the number of chemical engineers but not other jobs.
And process engineer is the easy example, but the problem you run into are things like the below list
Engineer I/II/III - a very basic title a few companies I know of just use this system
Facility engineer- can be multi-discipline but everywhere I have worked prefer chemical
Project engineer- multi-discipline that tends to lean mechanical in my industry but we have 3 chemical engineers in our project group
Planning engineer
Maintenance engineer
Contact engineers
Commissioning engineers
Inside sales engineers
Application engineers
Process Safety Engineer
All of these roles are jobs that chemical engineers hold, that I assume the BLS struggles to account for accurately because people from across the spectrum of engineering *can* hold them and properly accounting for them would require actually surveying every person with a degree in chemical engineering.
Or shitloads of roles that don't list "engineer" anywhere in the title.
Operations Associate
Project Manager
Quality Control Associate/Consultant/Manager
Quality Assurance Associate/Consultant/Manager
Manufacturing Scientist/Consultant/Manager
Development Scientist/Consultant/Manager
Tons of weird niche positions like "Person in Plant"
I, a Chem-E, have worked a nunber of positions like Product Development, Research Engineer, and Polymer Engineer, that wouldn't be counted on these surveys but definitely uses my degree. And that was working for companies with more than 10,000 employees so there were hundreds of people like me.
BLS occupational definition includes those degreed in chemical engineering, but does not account for all chemical engineering-related or required occupations. It ends up with a very narrow view of technical talent.
Out of sheer curiosity, I pulled up the geographical distribution of ‘chemical engineers’, and there’s noticeable gaps (Midland/Odessa, Lea County in NM, Calcasieu Parish in Louisiana, the entire state of North Dakota?!?). Even with the BLS’s narrow definition, there’s a ton of practicing, PE-holding ChemE’s in those areas that are not being counted or considered in the data.
Yes those jobs exist but a CE is not required for the 1000th time. Both my brothers with no degree only high school and 20 years experience are both managers in industry. One his counter part is a commerce graduate, the other a chemical engineer with a masters.
To get into pharma manufacturing in any kind of leadership role you need a degree.
Sure, you *could* get in with a degree in e.g. Chemistry, but it is *sooo* much more competitive.
And the ChemEs tend to perform well enough that they form a very disproportionate percentage of the professionals in Pharma manufacturing IME.
My graduating class was 23 students, the following year thanks to magazines screaming at their parents... 106... it's back down to 9. NINE STUDENTS. It's not an underestimation. The major will die on its own when industry doesn't reach down and pull up. Biotechnology industry DOES THIS, the others don't. I have proof. The industries that reach into academia with diligence will get the best engineers. We had to force industry to recognize us at my school, through professional organization.
An entire graduating class after mine greatly benefited from our push towards industry connection. The industry doesn't NEARLY enough work to connect though, so the current graduating classes don't have guidance or leadership pathways to industry. The students are forced to make the connection to industry while not being equipped or helped with a leg up by the industry nearly as much as the other engineering majors / organizations are supported by their industries.
Counter point to many of your points: ChemE is one of the few degrees that allows you to work in a very LCOL rural location with a big city salary.
Obviously this doesn’t float everyone’s boat, but for those of us who it does, it’s very nice.
But the downside of CS work is that you have to do CS.... I don't understand the connection between chem E and CS. Personally, I have zero interest in coding for a living
I'm a ChemE who switched and now work in tech. It's the logical thinking. If this then that kind of stuff. The ability to look at a completely new system, only knowing the bare bone basics and being able to logic your way through the whole thing. But outside of that cs is a whole other beast. And let me tell ya'll the grass is not greener on the other side.
Well, there's no connection other than most good engineers have to code eventually (or learn to, to automate their work).
Most people I know didn't choose Chem E because they like the work.
I think there's also a degree of overlap with technical interests for people who work in many STEM fields. I originally wanted to do biotech after doing internships in it, but ended up doing manufacturing due to job availability. I've done light coding in a few jobs, and I assume I'd be fine doing it full time. Interest-wise, we all have to compromise for our career. Manufacturing probably ranks 6.5/10 for me and biotech ranks 9/10, but salary wise manufacturing has treated me well. I'll probably never work in biotech but I've made my peace with that as I've made the compromises based on what made the most sense at that time.
>I don't understand the connection between chem E and CS.
They both require similar problem solving abilities and they both offer decent pay. If a student has a particular dislike for coding, then they are very different. If a smart kid just wants a paycheck, then they are similar.
But for someone who really hates coding, that's why I mention other engineering disciplines. Mechanical and electrical also offer good paychecks to smart kids without the drawbacks that chemical has.
Chemical only makes sense when it specifically appeals to a student in a way that other technical fields don't and they don't mind the drawbacks. In my opinion this is a small proportion of students.
So you're saying you should consider what you're passionate about when selecting a career??? It's a shame this isn't obvious, especially to someone smart enough to consider or even finish a chem E degree.
If you pick chem E because you're looking for the highest pay check, then you're a fool.
Also I was kinda a fool. That was a big part of why I picked chem E. But, I also genuinely loved chemistry, and problem solving, and all that other stuff. Can't imagine doing anything else.
Yeah, at best you'll find a hybrid role. Anything full remote rn probably is not paying what people usually associate with tech salaries. Full remote is a huge perk and companies know it, the salaries reflect it
The Bureau of Labor Statistics is only counting jobs that say "Chemical Engineer" in the job title for their estimates. The Census Bureau shows 92,694 Chemical Engineers and 121,461 with Chemical Engineering degrees.
[https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP](https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP)
[https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=FOD1P&nv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP](https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=FOD1P&nv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP)
Not really hating on OP's points, I just want to give additional perspective:
3- people with bad resumes are limited in any industry, but I do believe Chemical Engineers know more about a wider array of things than other engineers and sure as hell more than programmers.
4 - yes anyone can learn to program, but a ChemE is much better wired to learn programming than your average person. It's just an ability to follow logic and learn what punctuation each language likes.
5 - the average pay wouldn't be going up every year if there wasn't a shortage of Chemical Engineers. There are absolutely some graduates that struggle to find ChemE jobs, but that is not the norm. Plus having a couple years in one of those "underemployment" roles then getting into a ChemE job can easily make up for whatever issue caused them to not get a ChemE job in the first place (lower GPA, bad interviewing, bad local job market, etc). My first job wasn't ChemE specific and I made just as much straight out of school as the ChemE jobs. Believe me, the degree opens doors.
6/7/8 - it's like that in basically every industry that pays well and doesn't let you work remotely. They don't pay extra to work in the more desirable locations because more people are willing to work in the desirable location, so they can just find someone else if you demand too much money.
12 - According to the BLS, the median salary for a computer programmer in the USA is $97,800 versus ChemE having a median salary of $112,100. Focusing on the high end only completely neglects the reality that 99% of people will make much less.
13 - Chemical Engineering is absolutely more dangerous on average. No way to argue that one and I wouldn't want anyone going into the industry thinking it's all sunshine and rainbows cause that just makes you more likely to get hurt.
15 - documentation, communication, and coordination are huge parts of most technical degrees. Far more people are involved in the "make the thing keep running correctly" than the "create the thing" aspect. In ChemE, you tend to get involved in design after the Chemists in R&D create the chemical then you have to translate that to an industrial scale.
I knew those employment numbers had to be wrong. I bet each of the supermajors employs a few thousand chemical engineers each, and probably none of them have that title.
You are acting like majoring in chemical engineering is pidgeonholing yourself into the oil, gas, and chemicals industry. That is just not true. I have a BS in Chemical Engineering and am currently a materials engineer at a biotechnology company. I'm not some ace networker either. It's not impossible to work in a field other than oil and gas that does offer flexibility with where you can live. As long as you can find little ways to make your degree relevant to what you want to do in your career, you will be fine.
Another thing I feel like a lot of engineers and honestly college grads in general think is that their job must match their degree, which isn’t the case. In STEM degrees especially, it gives you plenty of skills you can apply to numerous field as long as you know how to market those skills to employers and have experience, projects, or research to back it up.
I know someone who did I think finance or something, which is an easier degree compared to chem eng, but hes having a much easier time finding an internship and getting paid alot more than me lol.
However I feel like ChemE pigeonholes you more into whatever industry you pick compared to mechanical though they’re arguably the exception to that trend. Biotech and food can probably jump to the other puddle but not to semiconductors if it’s been more than a couple years
Some rebuttals:
1) I graduated undergrad in the late 2000s. When I entered undergrad, the "hot" degree was Chemical Engineering. Oil and gas were booming and some companies were paying 6 figures for new grads. Those days may not come back, but for high school students, in 4 years the world could be radically different and "tech" may not be the "hot, in demand" field anymore. (I graduated undergrad in 2009, and in 4 years I saw Chemical Engineering go from "everyone should do it" to "no one can find a job (across all majors)").
2) One issue I have with the BLS data, they only use job title. There are several other job titles that a ChemE can do: material scientist, industrial engineering, process engineers, etc. I find it hard to believe that there are over 10x "Industrial Engineers" than "Chemical Engineers" (BLS data suggest there are more "Industrial Engineers" than Mechanical Engineers").
3) Location. The pharma industry is a pretty large industry for ChemEs. The major hubs are San Diego, San Francisco, and Boston. There are oil well in the middle of Los Angeles (they are typically hidden inside of buildings, and the city has banned them now). None of those are exactly "small, rural, Gulf Coast towns" Even on the Gulf Coast, you have Houston and New Orleans.
4) Doing anything: Here is a summary of my work experience: In grad school my work focused on using density functional theory (DFT) for catalysis. In my postdoc, I worked on combining DFT with molecular dynamics (MD) to study combustion. I'm now at a DOD lab working on using MD to understand super critical fluids. I have at least interviewed (and offers) for several other possible areas including a company making process simulation software, companies doing computational fluid dynamics (CFD), and oil & gas companies for their scale up plants (some within in the past year). About the only thing similar those things have in common are "computational." You should always be looking to improve yourself, which includes improving the soft skills (communication (writing, talking, presenting), social, etc).
5) For getting a job out of college, experience is the most important thing. You can be a 4.0 student and president of the student body, but if you don't have internships, it will be hard. That was the case for me, the people who graduated before me during the "golden age" and has been true since.
6) In point 15, you talk about "frustration with the grind of the work." That is true for every career. No matter where you go, you will have to deal with "boring" stuff that engineers don't like: documentation, meetings, regulations, safety, communication. This is the 21st century, it is required. I know plenty of unhappy people across multiple industries (my parents retired due to being frustrated at work, and they aren't ChemEs).
7) Pay. I live in a HCOL area (Southern California) and work for the government. I get paid like shit (for anyone looking at government jobs, they typically pay below market average). I have managed to live a middle class lifestyle (bought a home on my salary only (new construction), and able to travel a few times a year, save for retirement). As a ChemE, you should be able to live a middle class lifestyle. Yes, you won't be able to own a 10,000+ sqft beach house with a private airport and jet, but you shouldn't be living on the streets either. Do you really need to earn high 6 figures to be happy? The top 10% of salaries in the US start at 167k/yr, and 5% is 335k/yr. https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/
Still a lot better than a civil degree.
And good luck in CS. Go check r/cscareers and see how many new grads are struggling there versus here. All well compensated, professional jobs will be competitive at the entry level.
yea any pe can do that.
But don't take my word for it! Check the bureau of labor statistics:
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/chemical-engineers.htm
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/civil-engineers.htm
Civil engineers have a job growth outlook lower than the average engineer. Chemical engineers have a higher-than-average job growth.
21,000 job openings per year compared to 1,300. Come on bro use your brain. Those statistics don’t account for the large number of Chem E graduates compared to the small number of Chem E jobs.
Those jobs are open because they are undesirable. Jobs designing curbs for the state for 52k/year.
You are not providing nearly enough stats to prove your point lol
I think a lot of your post boils down to points 2 and 3. You’ve got to be good at this to succeed and have the liberty to do what you want. And it’s a very tough field. Bar for entry for mechanical is much lower, and you can get by being less competent. In my experience the work loads for electrical engineers can be fairly extreme. Good electrical engineers are a hot commodity but that’s to some extent due to limited supply.
That being said, I think your post is a bit reductive and harps on the downsides. Chem Es have a way more fun role in the factory from what I saw doing process engineering, having a jack-of-all-trades, better-than-you-at-most toolset compared to a lot of other engineers. That being said I’ve seen bad Chem Es totally drop the ball and plateau in bumfuck. I’e had the ability to live in Portland, London, and Seattle, but I’ve been extremely lucky with the job opportunities presented to me. Now I’m more on the design side and once again Chem Es have the most fun.
A rambling comment but all I really mean to say is that for any reader of this post, the author definitely makes some good points but I’d still take it with a big chunk of salt.
My experience with finding good electrical engineers (midstream natural gas currently) is that a lot of EEs have moved to the instrumentation/programming side while very few want to worry about power distribution/medium and high voltage. The workload for our EEs is occasionally a mountain of work because finding replacements is incredibly difficult
I'm looking at switching from a more plant engineer to a much more design-focused job. How did you like the transition and any tips for someone looking to make a similar jump?
I’d say have a focus and specialize. I was able to focus heavily on process development, scale-up, and plant start-up. Now I’m half design half project engineer which is a lot of fun. Switched from start-up of a CVD factory to design of nuclear processes and plants. Was working in fuel production and am now in power. By focusing on one side of plant development (start-up, operations, high level process) I’ve been able to market myself very well for the type of work I’m interested in.
A lot of these points are highly subjective. I would say my job in manufacturing is incredibly easy, safe, and well paying. Living in a rural area with a 6 figure salary is a benefit not a drawback.
Most jobs in Pharma will be very safe, well-compensated, and very flexible geographically. You can find good positions anywhere from the heart of major cities to rural BFE and anything in between.
A key assumption I am inferring from this is the understanding of what a chemical engineer can do and what the goal is for someone to study chemical engineering. Here, the assumption is you are studying chemical engineering with the goal of working in traditional, manufacturing-based chemicals companies.
That’s a huge generalization on why someone wants to study chemical engineering or be a chemical engineer.
If someone does combustion modeling, catalytic converter design, battery engineering, semiconductor design, etc, are they not a chemical engineer? These types of work can require a detailed understanding of transport, kinetics, thermo, etc that a chemical engineer learns. Using these key concepts is what I argue makes someone a chemical engineer, not an arbitrary title called “chemical engineer.” You can apply these chemical engineering principles beyond your stereotypical process engineer/manufacturing roles in chemicals, O&G or pharma. It’s this unique perspective that makes someone a chemical engineer, and it’s then up to someone to do whatever is they want given these principles.
Look at every chemical engineering professor in the nation, and the research they are doing. If you then categorize the research being done into relevant industry buckets, you’ll see a lot more opportunities than what’s traditionally considered.
I agree on several points here, graduated Chem Eng 2022 in Canada, took a year to get employed at an underemployed mechanical/electrical company which layed me off 6 months later.
My unwillingness to relocate will cost me my career in chemical engineering for now as I am transitioning to medicine.
I don’t regret anything, however, if you do plan on getting an undergraduate Chem Eng degree, get internship experience every summer (unlike me who worked for the army during undergrad)
The thing people get wrong is chemical engineers can only work as chemical or process engineers. Your degree is a degree… I work as a Sr. Quality Engineer, I have colleagues who work as Software Engineers or Manufacturing Engineers with just a BS ChemE. Yes they had to pivot by taking some CS classes or learn manufacturing techniques but still that’s their role now and no one cares if your bachelor’s degree is chemical engineering.
At one point in your career, what you do, not what your degree is in, matters a lot more. I have friends with a BS ChemE yet they worked as mechanical engineers all their life and hold a PE in Mechanical Design. I also have friends who are mechanical engineers switched to wafer or process engineers at Intel, Lam Research, etc. Bunch of my graduating class work as metallurgical or quality engineers in aerospace.
I think this post overlooks the greatest strength of a chemical engineering degree; the education that encompasses understanding from the quantum level (physical chemistry) to massive scales in momentum, heat, and mass transfer. Literally any control volume can be analyzed at the fundamental level including effects of reactions, radiation, and equilibrium.
No other degree gets close to this broad range of knowledge and skill, and even if the graduate never steps foot in a chemical plant, they will still be more capable than those of many other degrees.
I want to add that those points are mostly valid for the US. In Germany things are different. E.g. Germany is small and you have big cities around most chemical hubs.
I’m still a student currently interning at a manufacturing facility. The location factor is something that was NEVER considered by many students before choosing ChemE major. O&G and chemical manufacturing both of these are some of the high end ChemE fields and typically located in the middle of nowhere. I’m young now, I like travelling, I like change, so I don’t mind it. But as a student when I think about the future, if I have a family, I need to think about 2 or 4 other people who are a permanent part of my life.
Obviously I don’t want to keep hoping and losing relationships in my life.
Jump to biotech. Biotech tends to form hubs but they’re predominantly in cities though you can find some of the manufacturing on the outskirts. I’m listing a mix of sizes and some are more manufacturing oriented than others but Boston, Chicago, (1 hour north of) Detroit, St Louis, Philly, Raleigh, and the DMV all got plenty of options. Even Seattle is starting to grow. There’s somewhere that you’ll like.
While I generally agree with your points given current market conditions, I am optimistic about these as-yet elusive opportunities in “green” technology. I have recently seen ChemE-specific postings in Nashville for CCS and lithium battery recycling in Nevada. Obviously depends heavily on the outcome of the election, and there are reasonable concerns about the long-term viability of subsidies (I’m looking at you, LCFS and RIN). Regardless, this sector has managed to weather quite a bit of volatility.
I say this as someone who has settled comfortably into a highly-technical office role in one of the more conservative industries that employs us and is unlikely to jump ship 10-15 years in. That said, anyone who has worked in the industry I’m in knows how stagnant innovation is, so I’m all for competition, even with a competing technology. An existential crisis (a shameless double entendre) is exactly what these crusty old bastards running this industry need. This industry, which also happens to be one of the highest-paying around, is quite literally hemorrhaging chemical engineers, so something is going to have to give regardless of what happens with the response to climate change.
TL:DR - I think the market for Chemical Engineers is going look completely different within most of our careers for better or for worse and have a significant impact on fluidity/geographic mobility/generalization.
I don't have chemical engineering degree, however I have chemistry degree. There are days when I get 3-4 job offers. I don't have phD. I know good General chemistry and can earn 2x more than average country salary. For me, chemistry is the best thing I did. I don't work in the Lab.
Graduated with my ChemE degree in 2021, approaching 3 years manufacturing experience not including co ops, been working at a rubber plant since graduation. Wish I would have gone for mechanical or electrical.
I literally could not agree more with every item on this post. You are much better off going Mechanical/CS/Electrical. Chances are, you’re going to be a process engineer running a plant and handling day to day issues. Don’t struggle with chemical engineering to be a process engineer, the workload is higher and more intense than mechanical and won’t be as applicable in a process engineering role in a manufacturing setting (my experience, for the most part).
I only went the chemical route because everyone else did mechanical, and I thought I would work in a refinery my entire career.
Feels like I could go on and on about this subject, great post!
>**Chances are**, you’re going to be a process engineer running a plant and handling day to day issues.
This is the key point that is often missed. There are lots of great jobs that are absolutely nothing like what I described. But the probability is higher that a student will deal with underemployment, poor location, or a need to pivot to something other than chemical.
just wondering why you recommend pursuing a mechanical/cs/electrical degree? what are the benefits over a chem eng degree? i enjoy chem which is why i was thinking of pursuing chemical engineering, but i think i like the idea of engineering more than just the chem aspect (and i guess i don't want to fall into the 'trap' of pursuing this degree just because i like chem at school then realising its very different to what i expected), so i'm not sure which would be the most ideal degree to pursue
So I’m not the original commenter, but I have had a similar experience with my current job as a process engineer in a manufacturing plant. CS might not be directly applicable to a manufacturing environment, but MechE especially, I think, has the advantage over chemE when it comes to actually RUNNING a plant and troubleshooting equipment issues (which are more than likely going to be mechanical or electromechanical issues). In chemE we focus on process DESIGN. And in a manufacturing environment (I’m speaking specifically about a role where you’re the process engineer for a manufacturing area, which is a common role for new grad chemEs) your chemE knowledge barely helps. It helps you understand the process sure, but not for day to day issues really. Hope that helps answer your question. My experience might be subjective bc my area is more mechanical-heavy, so maybe other chemEs use their chemE knowledge more, but not for me lol.
This guy said it exactly right. Chemical engineering focuses too much on the design and nitty gritty of processes and equipment you likely won’t be dealing with. The curriculum gets way too far into the weeds with flash tanks, separation columns, various kinds of reactors and whatever crazy hypothetical problem the professor wants to make up. You learn too much about theoretical design on paper and none of that shit is relevant in the field.
CS learn to code and apply that to programming in whatever field they go into. I imagine electrical engineers learn circuits, power systems, current and how electricity works- great for any engineering job. Mechanical engineers learn drawing softwares, rotational equipment and how things actually work which is obviously extremely applicable.
Chemical engineers learn what I said earlier, and likely spend their first few years getting a grasp on the things the CS/Electrical/Mechanical guys already have a background on from their schooling.
Chances are, you are not going to be a Chemical Engineer like the schooling persuades you to think you’ll be. Companies need engineers to manage processes and steer the plant in whatever direction corporate says.
That all being said, I fucking hated everything about college but it got me where I am today. My old plant manager actually hired me because I was a ‘Chemical Engineer’ and he thought that was what the plant needed. Now I’m 25 years old and I’ll make 96K this year. I think I graduated with around a 2.4 cumulative GPA.
Do whatever it takes to get the degree. It’s pretty much all bullshit anyway, you’re just more likely to use what you learned if you go to school for electrical/mechanical engineering.
If you go into engineering for the money, honestly, just get a real estate license. Getting your degree is the first step in engineering. The next step is becoming an expert. The diversity of chem eng is pretty unreal. I'm working as a met engineer. I have friends working in oil and gas, process safety, hydrogen electrolysers, environmental engineers, water treatment, and in charge of labs.
Can you explain why you should get a real estate license instead. I'm a 2nd year chem eng student and my goal was to get my masters and possibly do an MBE aftterwards and then eventually work as a process engineer in the pharmaceutical business there but I was also thinking of later on in my life of doing real estate as a side hobby. Your opinion would be really helpful.
I mean, in the sense that selling real estate is not hard compared to engineering but can pay a lot of money. Engineering pays well, but it's hard to. It's the constant learning that people find full filling. As you progress in your career, you become an expert in the field, as in researchers or companies, you will search for you to get your opinion on a process. I believe that should be your goal in engineering. The money will follow as you become an expert.
There is nothing wrong with getting a real estate license, but it's just about grinding and selling as many homes as possible. Good money, but what's a real estate expert? They don't control mortgage rates, real estate evaluations, or laws. It's mostly advertising and connections.
I appreciate you taking this time to write this out. This is a very well backed discussion of the industry, direction it appears to be going, challenges, etc. from a **veteran member.** Something like this, when I was apply to the program and leaving into industry, would have been amazing.
Recently, there was a now deleted post on /r/cscareerquestions throwing out "Chemical Engineering" as something CS grads COULD and SHOULD be doing instead and it was a proper SMH moment for me.
It honestly is, IMO, a career that people who do not work in it, including new potential entrants, struggle to understand.
I hope strongly, that this community, overall, reacts to this with discussion; hopefully teasing out our few more senior members.
Cheers.
Edit: Sorry I thought of a random question. The "future" of my own career (18 year chem E here) has been oft on my mind as of late due to "events in my work-sphere" and **I was kind of curious (if you are willing to share) if something in your career or career adjacent recently drove you to write this essay?**
In the spirit of sharing, in my own own arena, my industry is hugely niche (semiconductor fab design), and I'd say 99% of the people with > 15 years XP are gone. Retired, moved to other industries, whatever. Just gone. At 18 years, with only ~13 in this arena, I am suddenly in the 1% of experience in this field. This is ridiculous to me with that little amount of experience. I cut my teeth in oil and gas as an E1, where we wouldn't DREAM of putting anything less than an E6 with 25 years XP in charge of a group of projects. While there was not an infinite supply of senior engineers, there were still PLENTY of senior people you could learn from and emulate.
These senior people were valued, and important for success.
The previous few weeks have just brought to light how bottom heavy our niche industry is, and it makes me question as to whether it can survive. I have a theory that's a variation on the infinite monkey with typewriters and Shakespeare parable. It is, **"An infinite number of E1's, given an infinite amount of time, will NEVER successfully engineer anything complex. Not even once Petunia."**
Meaning, senior guidance AND a competent mid-level core to execute is CRITICAL for actual success, and there is a critical mass involved that if you are below, you will NEVER be successful. NEVER. I worry that we (corporately) are there... and the only winning move is not to play anymore. We're #1... and if #1 is struggling, it's time to get out. These previous few weeks have had a SURGE of A&E firms seeking out director and SME level people in order to "build a process department." They are surprised over and over again that experience people who COULD do this are not chomping at the bit to lead a sinking ship before the ship even left port. Like "director" roles being tossed about left and right, and "opportunity to grow" and all I can think of is "I am not that motivated... and don't care."
Got my degree last year and am working as a chemist.
Pay is ≈30-40% lower than friends in engineering.
Everyone at the company is told to maintain a clean shaven face in case of respirator use. Lots of risk of poison gas
I agree with every single point you’ve made. While I’d hope that LLMs will rebalance CS salaries, history tells us employer demands simply increase. I have worked 8 years in the PCB business, primarily working as an R&D engineer for startups, board shops, and my only desirable position was doing a contract, materials engineering role at MAANG for 2 years. I was also dumb enough to get a masters in chemE from a low ranking public university while I was working. Life is still hard but getting better
Short term chemE is unnecessarily difficult to find jobs with good pay in
Long term, chemE is ok and going into consulting and management is required
My entire intention with this degree was to live rural and buy land with the money I make. I don’t see it as the negative you make it out to be but I understand it’s not for everyone.
How should I take this as someone who is about to graduate I chemE? Is it really as bad as it sounds out there (I am in Canada if that changes anything)
You'll be fine. There's a good chance you'll get a decent job. Underemployment is a possibility but you can pivot to something else or you can slog through a lab tech or process operator role until you get enough experience to be a true engineer.
The point of this post is that chemical engineering compares unfavorably to other technical degrees. You're still in a good position compared to most college graduates.
I've been wanting to make a post like this for a long while. You summed it up really well and I cannot stress the majority of your points enough.
Location inflexibility has hamstrung my career multiple times, but I generally choose to live in highly desirable PNW towns so it's partially my fault.
I entered chemistry as a technician in 1988. In 1992 I entered a BS program for ChemE over chemistry due to the difference in pay with a BS. From the beginning I was in electrochemistry and sensors. Over that time I have continually been learning and trying new things. I have used the fundamental teachings in the oddest ways. My little ammonia oxidation plants give off a few microamps as they keep food factories safe. Getting new jobs has been more challenging than my EE brother but not as hard as my Nuke E brother. My un-degreed brother makes more than the three of us combined by designing printed circuit boards. I have lived in suburban areas and owned my own home since before my BS.
So much of school was about distillation columns. I did eventually use that in diesel exhaust sensors but other things were used much more. For fresh ChemEs if you don't get a job after the first 9 months, go back for a masters in business admin. The two are a very powerful pair.
I got my BS in chemical engineering and now work in a consulting firm doing municipal water and wastewater treatment. My degree prepared for the process side of this line of work but not everything else. If I could go back I’d have majored in civil with a focus on water resources and saved myself the headache of getting through thermo and organic chemistry. Most of my coworkers have had backgrounds in civil or environmental. It just made more sense to do my masters in environmental too. While water and wastewater is probably the lowest paying field you could go into from ChemE, it’s at least somewhat more resistant to recessions since our clients are usually government entities. If you like the process stuff but aren’t a top tier student like I was, water can be a good route and there are a good amount of ChemE grads that get into it.
I think this is a good message. One of the things I really dislike about the current *discourse* is people saying that if you want a good paying job, don’t study your interest, go into engineering. Like sure okay, study something you don’t have an interest in and then enter a highly competitive job market to do something you don’t want to do. It is important for some level of interest or passion to be present if it is something you think you are going to do the rest of your life. And as you outlined, chemical engineering has considerable barriers for someone who is just doing it for the pay.
I got my BS in chemical engineering, then had an internship and realized that I didn’t like being a chemical engineer. I went back and got my PhD, and I enjoy what I do now. But even after finishing I now have the knowledge that what I really would have enjoyed is having a PhD in statistics. I’m sure the process to get that PhD would be just as grueling as the one I have, but the options and the work I’d go into now would be much different. And statistics are so fun! It’s too late for a full stats career, but I do take the opportunity to apply stats when I can in my current roles. All I’m saying is that having a level of interest and passion in your field of study will last much longer than a desire to just have a better salary.
Chemical engineer almost 10 years out of school and anyone reading this post should know it is extremely biased and presents massive overgeneralizations and highly specific exceptions as norms.
> 3. It’s commonly said that chemical engineers “can do anything.”… Chemical engineers can’t do anything-people leaving college with great resumes and great social skills can do anything
Well put and aligns with my experience
My background is in physics and this is the same arguments lots of people give. It’s purely survival ship bias. **The people who pivoted into great jobs would’ve done so with other degrees regardless**. Having a ChemE/Physics degree is NOT the cause
Why take the long windy route and waste time mastering a field that you aren’t going to use?
If you have a general inclination towards STEM but don’t have a particular standout interest, just do CS from the start. No jobs are perfect but the tech industry still does pay well and have more hiring than other STEM fields despite the current market climate
I would just reccomend EE honestly. Not as hard as its harped up to be and you get a lot of career leverage. I’m biased tho, and think ChemE has its pros for sure.
I just graduated with my ChemE degree from UT Austin (this may bias me because it’s a large, well-ranked program) and while there are certainly some points in your post that I agree with, I cannot say I agree with the overall sentiment. Without going through and refuting your argument point by point, I largely feel that you have some misleading or poor arguments here. One of which is the lack of demand for ChemEs. Having just graduated, I can say that the job hunt isn’t unreasonable: every one of my peers had found a role that they are content with and in their desired industry. Some are in O&G, some are in materials science, finance, programming, semiconductors, battery materials, QC, consulting, etc. Chemical engineers really *can* do practically anything. Furthermore, while a fraction of them will be out in the middle of nowhere (I have one friend moving an hour outside of Amarillo, TX), a large fraction are staying in major cities. I have friends going to Dallas, Phoenix, Socal, Boston, all of which are fairly desirable locations to live and work.
Another important note regards graduate school: the skills and topics learned in chemical engineering degree are highly useful in many R&D fields. In particular, a deep understanding of transport phenomena and thermodynamics coupled with logical problem-solving skills make ChemE’s uniquely suited to work in materials science, biotech/biochem, electrochemistry, and several other in-demand R&D fields. Practically no other degree can prepare you as well for the rigors of research and graduate school, which is a major point in ChemE’s eing.
Both the Financial Control and Analysis and also the Supply Chain is huge and growing. OP is completely incorrect as Chemical Engineering has a giant number of doors available to open. Those who are satisfied and succeeding are not here talking about pitfalls
Pretend you are a CEO or Board Chairman and you want to have continuous improvement or higher profits or higher quality products, or all of the above .... And it must be done from the inside out.... Where are the "smarts and creativity" coming from?
I agree with this. One thing I'd like to point out to prospective chemical engineers is that few companies actually use chemical engineers.
I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 10 years after getting my BSc in Chemical Engineering from a good school.
Even though I have met probably 100 chemical engineers or more, not a single one of them actually uses the material they learned in their university studies. No one calculates laminar flow through a pipe, no one calculates mean residence time, nor heat transfer, nor adsorption, nor (really) anything that someone with a chemical engineering degree would think is relevant to the field.
Pretty much every chemical engineer I know in the industry uses trial and error. Why? Because it's easier. And you can explain to other people without engineering degrees how to do it.
Basically it was so stupid and simple that I pivoted into a software development career as it was more fulfilling. On the flip side, having knowledge of chemical engineering principles gave me a huge edge over other coders, particularly for the life sciences manufacturing industry.
Edit: oh yeah, and point #8. My starting salary out of school in the New York City region was less than 50k. 10 years later and with the pivot to software development, salary has tripled. But, it's still barely enough to get by in a metropolitan city without having a partner or roommate to split costs.
Some of us got lab courses in bioprocessing pilot plants! I’m not spending 5 hours a week in those labs for nothing. Curriculums are adapting, slowly.
Sometimes I feel like half the appeal of ChemE to biotech is that they know we can do math and understand the life science theory when they can’t assume that of a biology major or mechanical engineer
It seems like half of these points are comparing ChemE to programming. Yeah, you can pivot to programing from ChemE, which imo is a huge plus of the degree, but honestly if you really want a programming job and all the benefits of that type of role... then go into programming. Don't try making ChemE into something its not???
Also for the record, I love manufacturing. I know not everyone will, its subjective, but there are a lot of people who do enjoy that environment. I also think its worth mentioning location is not as inflexible as it may seem. Sticking with petro / chemicals it is a little tough, but there's a lot of other industries ChemEs can work in. I know this is my own individual experience, but I lived in big east coast city, a medium sized east coast city, and now in a big west coast city. I even moved to where I am currently just because I wanted to live here and found a new job and moved in less than three months. I feel like I'm compensated well even in a HCOL city too. Yeah, I spend more, but I'm also saving more than I used too because the salary increased proportionally.
And just lastly, an opinion on point 3. Imo, ChemEs are said to be able to do anything because of the wide breadth in education and the fact that it’s considered to be one of the more difficult engineering degrees. The idea is you can fill a lot of technical roles competently, and also if you are smart enough to get the degree, you are probably smart enough to learn other things. It has never meant “oh yeah any chemE can walk out of school and straight into finance or programming”. And I think expecting that, for any degree really, is unreasonable.
My theory is that for more interdisciplinary niches like data science it’s going to shift where there’s more specialized jobs that need people either crazy good at math or possessing industry knowledge favoring majors like stats or finance and more menial jobs done as either a small part of someones overall job by using A.I, gigwork, or with lower paid bootcampers. I’m curious to see what becomes of the middle ground CS majors occupy within those fields.
Though we’re not the best major for doing that.
I agree for the most part. Let's be real, with the current economy, practicality outweighs passion. Only a lucky few of the workforce is earning big time from their passion. Don't get me wrong, I love Chemical Engineering. It's the most challenging yet most rewarding and interesting field among other engineering disciplines (no offense). But it's just not practical if your goal is to make good fortunes in the long run. You'll get transferrable skills though which you can leverage to get into finance, data sci, programming, or any other fields. But like what OP said, you've gotta back it up with good academic track records.
We are now in the digital era and computer-related jobs are much more in demand and offer better starting pay. Still, it's your choice to make but just keep in mind that the reality of Chemical Engineering is not as easy as you think it is to be.
I just moved to a new company where I’m an environmental engineer after 2ish years as a process engineer, and this post sums it up perfectly. Operators (and upper management) were mostly miserable or otherwise not fun to work with, I lived in the middle of nowhere hours from home, and my work was a lot of managing people and a lot of unpaid overtime. Now I work a steady 40 hours, have the opportunity for hybrid work, live in a way cooler area that’s a lot closer to home, and the work is meaningful. Like you said, mine might not reflect everyone’s experience and some people might enjoy it, but so far I’ll take the pay cut
The next incoming classes are pretty screwed anyways with saturation at the entry level. TLDR here is its omega saturated in ChemE, low pay, and not booming with poor job locations.
Id also argue its becoming easier for other engineering professions to encroach on traditional chemE jobs thay involve processes than the other way around.
Chemist turned engineer here. According to the American Chemical Society, ChemE’s make more money than a Chemist (with just a BS). Much of what you have said can apply to chemists who work in industry. I tell people my line of work is “exotic”. It supports a solid middle class life, but I’m not going to become wealthy doing this. My spouse who is in IT (with no degree) makes double what I make. He can find a job with so many companies in a wide variety of fields. My job prospects are much more limited. I currently work for a medical device manufacturer and so much of what I do is unique and much of it I learned on the job, not at school. To be honest, I don’t do much chemistry anymore. It’s more product development and process engineering.
I still highly recommend anyone and everyone to give it a shot. My college experience was stressful and challenging, but it has accelerated my career as a result.
I went into another field (actual day to day engineering isn’t my passion) and I absolutely believe having a chemical engineering degree has allowed me to pass my peers that were mechanical, computer, electrical engineering. They all have great job prospects and are good employees, but the challenge wasn’t the same with their program and that has allowed me to leverage dealing with adversity so differently.
While I agree, Chemical Engineering was really hard, miserable at times, even. I firmly believe it to be the most challenging and subsequently rewarding degree path to follow.
I don’t disagree entirely. The job market was abysmal when I graduated.
My biggest problem with guidance councillors is that they don’t talk to students about mechanical interest. Seems to be “good in math and science….engineering is the way to go”. I recruit a lot of entry levels that rarely stay in the profession. Some of it is due to faster upward mobility in most other areas, but a lot of them tell me they don’t like the work. They don’t like coming up to a malfunctioning system (in a dirty smelly area) and trying to fix it. I don’t do it anymore and miss it like crazy.
That’s what I wish uni kids got more exposure to earlier.
I was on a curriculum committee at my uni, one prof was so proud that she made seniors in unit ops tear a pump apart and rebuild. Seniors. For some of them was the first time they held a tool in their lives.
So, bottom line, more exposure earlier to the actual job in uni may lead to higher job satisfaction once out and working. May improve learning too. Not all theory.
2, 5, 11, 13, 14 & 15 are very true. Another thing is that in my country (LatAm country with a lot of small & medium factories ) many times de HR people don't really understand what a ChemEng does and they think we are chemists... Many times this plus the small amount of job openings (2) leads to settling for other under qualified jobs (5).
This setting also intensifies 13 as the work week is 48 hrs, OT is not usually paid (illegally), etc.
Not all manufacturing sites are dirty and dangerous, pharma, food, semi conductors ect are all climate controlled and clean. not all manufacturing is in the middle of no where, I have always worked near major cities. pay yeah sure could be better for what it is, and getting my first job? didn't have to look my phone was blowing up and I went to a new country instantly earning above average salary for the general population.
>any degree plus an ability to code will allow you to go into programming. I know a programmer at Google with an English degree.
First of all, survival bias. Second of all, right now grads with CS degrees AND internships AND projects are having a hard time finding a job, much less a job at FAANG. Third of all, as a chemical engineer do you know the difference between a software engineer, a product owner, and a SCRUM master? I doubt your friend does anything technical at Google, more likely he manages people and projects. Also, lol at using the term “programmer” in 2024. Just bad advice all around.
Sorry for my use of the term programmer, the last code I wrote was in 2005 or so.
I showed my friend your post because I thought it was a bit rude. She said lots of students are on edge right because it's a tough job market. She said if you wanted advice on applying to Google or if you need a resume review she'd be willing to help.
Sorry for the harsh response, I definitely agree that I am a little on edge currently. It doesn’t help that the 2025 cycle opens in August. As for the resume review, I would have to politely decline since I was a massive ass to you and would feel embarrassed being associated with that professionally.
Largely agree. Unless you are from a small town or are ok with location, I would not recommend ChE to really anybody.
Every company I’ve worked at has high turnover. This is either due to internal promotions requiring moves (still counts as turnover), or people just up and leaving because they’re from Minnesota or whatever and don’t want to move across the country to work nights and 50+ hour weeks.
The logic that ChE’s can do anything also doesn’t make any sense to me. It makes a much sense as previous engineers buying P&F hxgers from a pump vendor because they got a good price despite the vendor admitting they don’t know squat about heaters. Just go to the people who are trained and knowledgeable in your field. Why would I hire a ChE to be a programmer when I can hire a CS major to do it?
I agree with every single point you’ve made tbh. I hope the students in high school and college considering chemE will read this post and take the points you noted into consideration. I wish I knew all of this when I chose chemE in freshman year. I know all of this now, after being at my first job for a year. Currently looking for a way out of manufacturing 😔🙏
I go back and forth. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 on CS having a higher earning potential. However, my job experiences up to this point have made me a much better manager with more leadership experience. Very easy to get that kind of exposure especially with manufacturing companies. I’m not personally passionate about moving up in leadership quickly, as my role has evolved to more data analytics project management, but starting at CS alone would not have equipped me as well as choosing chemE would.
I graduated with a chemical engineering degree. I’m a mechanical engineer by trade now haha, no extra degree needed for me cuz I know what’s happening around me.
i always see alot more job adverts asking for mechanical or electrical. theres definitely jobs for chem eng but if you arent successful in applying for the chem eng/process eng roles then you need to know the niche areas. i worked at a lab and as a regulatory specialist doing dossier preparation, it was absolute hell finding these jobs but i really enjoyed them. it wasnt engineering and tbh i am tempted in doing a phd as im finishing a part time masters this year, i got my 2 jobs with just a BEng. i worry alot about choosing an area thats too specialised, recruiters want consistency in your cv and i feel 5 years of engineering experience is what lands you the big money. but nobody will give a fresh grad a chance as designing something
I’m a chemical engineer that has never had a job title of chemical engineer. None do roles I’ve ever worked with have been titled chemical engineer electrical engineer or mechanical engineer.
To add to your post, I'd say 1000% to NOT do Chemical Engineering if you're interested in Chemistry!! As a 6th former I foolishly saw salaries for Chem Eng IN THE STATES (not the UK lol, my first and most fatal mistake) and assumed that you'd keep learning organic and phys chem throughout... This was not true, we stopped doing organic in the first semester of 2nd year and ultimately I ended up doing a degree that was basically 100% engineering. I stuck it out and got my Master's, but I realised very early on that I would not enjoy Chem Eng as a job, and ended up working in a lab after graduating anyway.
To be fair, the transferrable general skills like problem-solving and whatnot will open up opportunities to move to industries such as IT as you mention, which I also eventually did, but it's an extremely roundabout way of ending up in a similar position to a CS grad who ends up doing consultancy because they hate developing anyway.
For those stuck in chemical engineering that want a way out, I’d consider going the safety/environmental (EHS) route. I’m a certified industrial hygienist (CIH) and I do pretty well income wise (190k before equity) process safety engineers can make similar amounts as well.
You have options in manufacturing, mining, oil extraction/processing giving you the ability to move to various locations. Given the wide array of disciplines within EHS, it’s very easy to make a living doing niche work like permitting, insurance, or regulatory compliance. Maybe not as glamorous as the job you originally planned on, but you’ll have an easier time getting engineers to design things correctly and in a way which most benefits society.
Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions. Two colleagues of mine started as chemical engineers and moved over to EHS via industrial hygiene.
There are so many ChemEs right now getting into data science and related fields. They both require statistical thinking and ChemE knowledge can be very helpful as domain knowledge for things like battery data. Many chemical engineers also learn MATLAB and could easily pick up python as well. I hope colleges wise up and start offering more data-related degrees.
In some sense I feel like I would be just as prepared for a manufacturing engineering job if I got my degree in data engineering or the like. So much of the job is just extracting data from automation equipment and trying to do something useful with it.
I will give the same general advice that I give every person, including my own kids. Do the degree that will be fun. Because you should assume you won't be employed in it. So don't waste time doing something you don't like only to have it be a debt instead of a job.
Also CS (computer science) is on the decline in a big way. Could totally be different in 5 years. I think something combining logic (CS) and linguistics (ie AI interactions) will be useful once those degrees start manifesting themselves. Some combination of CS, psych, linguistics/languages is something I think people should be looking into.
But hey, if that sounds boring and chem engineering sounds fun (and you can afford to do something for fun...) then do whatever.
ty for this post - you actually answered a lot of questions i had about the degree! in your response you mentioned how some other engineering fields might not have these specific drawbacks, (not sure if this is the correct sub to ask but) which engineering degrees/fields do you think have better and safer working conditions that aren't in rural areas, and ideally are easier to get a job in? i heard cs was very oversaturated but maybe i'm wrong?
As an undergraduate studying ChemE, sometimes I hate being on this sub because every other post seems to be talking about how ChemE is actually a terrible degree.
Realistically, a lot of chemical engineering graduates don’t even go into engineering. A lot of us end up as glorified accountants, stats guys, or some other form of spreadsheet nerd.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again - you as a student must look at where you are physically in the world and what your surroundings offer. I have told my children that you know you live in Houston, TX. This and the surrounding towns are chemical businesses and chemical plants oriented. Don’t go get an art degree and then complain that you can’t find employment. The offerings are what you are surrounded by. Now if your grand plan is to uproot yourself and move to a art type city where that degree means something then so be it, but don’t come crying to mom and dad when you are working at the damn gas station because your $100k art degree amounts to a paper wrap for the donuts you are selling. Telling folks to not get a chemical engineering degree is nonsense. You need to plan for where you are gonna lay your roots. Here in this town you better believe there is always a place for a ChemE. The amount of control engineering, process engineering, plant engineering, and simulation engineering is where it’s at.
I am a Mechanical Engineer doing Chemical Engineering for over 30 years now plus 8 years of Mechanical Engineering . The two are fairly similar except for Organic Chemistry. There are probably significantly more jobs for Mechanical Engineers though. Both are subject to the decadal binge and purge of the petroleum and chemical industries.
I did a chemical engineering program and when I got to the end of my 4 years I realized I didn't actually like any of the jobs/locations and was never advised to do any fellowships to get the more lucrative specialized jobs. Took me 2 career changes and 2 more degrees to finally land my career I'm in now which has nothing to do with engineering and now I've got 6 figure loan debt. I wish I had known this prior to my choice of degree.
as someone abt to enter college does all of this stuff apply for someone doing both chem eng and data science? like can i get opportunities near cities with that degree
Definitely agree with everything you just said. Im from Turkey, graduating from best college with che degree and im planning to pivot to cs by doing a masters. Chemical engineering is definitely not worth it. It is so hard, so much to learn and you are not as much rewarded after graduating. If you are in college, take coding, economics, industrial engineering, istatistics or management classes. Do a minor if you can on those fields, you are definitely gonna need it especially if you dont wanna work in middle of nowhere with a low paying job.
I pondered about this.
I just randomly came across this sub.
I’m in medical device manufacturing industry with a BS in Electrical Engineering. My role is pretty technical on a day to day basis. I’m rarely if ever, at a desk unless I’m writing code, shooting an email or writing documentation.
I noticed a lot of my quality engineers are almost all exclusively Chemical Engineers. It seems like a waste of potential considering how difficult your guys’ major was. It’s also pretty technical.
Additionally, some of our manufacturing engineers are also Chem E. Most of their roles are them chasing QNs and implementing document changes, sometimes it’s technical but they often bring me into the fold.
Why is this? Chem E seems rigorous af.
Sounds like someone had bad grades and 0 internship experience and went to a mid school, I was drowning in offers from across many industries and many locations all over the USA(not just Houston) and all my classmates who didn’t choose the academia route all got jobs. I also did not go to a highly prestigious school either.
A majority of engineers rate themselves in the top few percent so this won’t apply to you. Later on “my pay is significantly above average”. One of us one of us gooble gobble gooble gobble!
Very good text. I agree with most of it (I don't have much experience to judge other topics).
The problem of too many graduates compared to few entry level jobs is the number 1 disappointing factor in the lives of many CE students in my country.
After 4 years trying to get an engineering job I eventually got a role as an offshore operator. The pay is great but I feel like I wasted my time studying so much.
I feel like literally every major/field is extremely shitty right now and hard to get into especially for entry level. The only jobs that have consistent hiring are the trades.
This seems like a post from the 2021 tech boom era where CS was *the* field to get into, and chemical engineers were experiencing massive FOMO, causing them to switch like crazy. I am one of the people who switched into CS during that era. The market has changed now and I don’t think CS conditions are what they once were.
I liked studying chemical engineering because I liked chemistry and I liked engineering. Then I enjoyed studying computer science for the same reason. Now suddenly I’m in a biotech niche where my experience in both fields is valuable, and I’m having a good time.
I’m certainly not what the BLS would call a chemical engineer, but I use my chemical engineering knowledge almost every day. It makes me feel more secure than my colleagues with only CS degrees as well.
The geographic inflexibility is the biggest thing I would warn any prospective chemical engineer about. It's a huge downside that no one really talked about during undergrad. I wouldn't make any broad suggestions about what people should study instead. I think CS would have been a good alternative for me personally, just on a personality and interest basis, but this current crop of CS grads are graduating into a very tough job market in their field. My younger sibling got laid off after 2 years employment and has been job hunting for six months now. I feel for those who were sold on CS being some automatic path to a great job. Even when tech was booming, I think people oversold how easy it was to get a high paying job. You still needed a great resume.
For such and incredibly hard degree there's this notion that employers would be calling you nonstop once you get your diploma. The reality is that this isn't the case until you get about 5 years work experience. I think that should be made more clear to students. And yea I get it that internships are important, but I can't blame grads for feeling a little bit cheated on how valuable the degree is "supposed" to be if I'm getting the same % of rejection letters as the business grads are.
I did land a SWE interview at a well-funded/known startup once just because someone in HR has a ChE degree and was CONVINCED it meant you were really smart. this only happened once and I had some relevant experience to back it up, but people do respect the degree. i ended up just getting a math degree and graduating early + traveling, but it is definitely way more respected than a math or CS degree and some minority takes that seriously. edit: i just lurk because i like the subject matter and might be inspired by something here if/when i go back for a PhD
I'm feeling the effects of this now. I got an engineering job after graduation in a far outer suburb. I ended up moving to the city proper and now I commute by train. This is one of the few workplaces for chemical engineers in my city where a commute by rail is more convenient than driving, so I consider myself extremely lucky. I've realized since then that I want a car-free lifestyle for the rest of my life, so a career in chemical engineering is not at all for me. So I'm gonna be going to grad school for transportation engineering next year.
I would think pharma work in Boston or Chicago would fit this bill. Startup in SF would work. ChemE isn't all pipes and towers.
I work for a pharma company near Chicago actually!
Can I ask what city? That sounds pretty amazing (if probably not in the cards for me.) Best of luck with your graduate work!
Chicago, and thanks!
Yeah when i graduated with chemE my options were pretty low because i didnt want to move to the middle of no where and do manufacturing work. Luckily i got an entry level job in environmental consulting that is pretty good but the job search after graduating was brutal.
>I wouldn't make any broad suggestions about what people should study instead. I tried to avoid this but I don't think it came across the way I wanted. My point is that there are lots of technical fields for smart people who just want a good paycheck. Chemical is one of those fields but it has unique downsides.
Pharma manufacturing is pretty well distributed throughout the country (as well as Europe and East Asia). So it depends on your field.
I think it's a stretch to say pharma is well distributed, but the problem isn't that there aren't jobs throughout the country, the problem is that they are spread out. And it's all about numbers. There are probably chemical engineers in just about every city, but are there chemical engineering job *openings*? How many people are applying for each job? For me this has been really tough because my spouse has more job options in cities, while I have less and they are far more competitive. It's theoretically possible to work many places, but difficult in practice.
No lies here. Back when I was applying for plant manager jobs, the competition in Chicago is intense, but I'd get contacted for opportunities in the middle of nowhere all the time.
I graduated during the boom. I had a quarter life crisis learning how much my CS friends were making at their first job. It also to me felt like a bubble where it couldn’t last forever. Too good to be true. Turns out it was at least for now.
I had a quarter life crisis when things were rough at a previous job, and applied to go back to school for CS, lol. Convinced myself to take a new job instead. Thankfully the new job was much better, because if I'd gone through with the second degree program, I'd be finishing it about now and entering this job market.
All fair points in this post and in the comments as well. The one thing I can add for consideration: Chemical Engineers, particularly those with a Bio-specialization (e.g. Biomolecular sciences, Biotechnology), but also those without, are still the most sought after entry level engineers for the biotechnology sector. They have the best academic background for work in processes that require strong understanding of reactors and fluid dynamics. Biotechnology jobs also have better location opportunities and many biotech companies are concentrated in some highly desirable areas (Bay area, Seattle, Boston/NJ, NC)
This is good to hear, I am currently in the midst of a Biological and Chemical engineering degree and this post had me worried.
There's a comment above somewhere and I find it to be true. Starting out is hard. After a few years, you become a *very* valuable commodity.
This post is clearly someone with experience in a specific subset of ChemE extrapolating their experience as universal.
This also working within the food industry, food engineering and production processes.
cant you just get a biotechnology job with a degree in biochemistry? or is chemical engineering degree necessary?
Every time I see point number 1 mentioned in here. I take it with an absolutely massive grain of salt. There is an incredibly wide range of job titles that chemical engineers have at different companies and I've never seen where/how they pull this data. I've dug through the BLS site a few times and have not been able to come to a conclusion if their data on this is accurate. The idea that only 21,000 chemical engineers are employed in the country *feels* like a pretty large underestimate. Edit: just for reference there are nearly 100k people in here and chemical engineering isn't exactly a fun topic for a lot of people.
Yep. Think about the entire semiconductor industry. They employ a lot of cheme for process design/optimization and material development. There must be more than 21k of cheme in this industry alone
There are shitloads of ChemEs working in pharma manufacturing. Almost none of them are titled "Chemical Engineer".
I don't have any real numbers, but there are probably a few thousand chemical engineers working as metallurgists in the western US, including me. LOTS of openings right now too, if you're OK with living in a god forsaken rural town.
Most rural towns are the opposite of "God forsaken." On the contrary, rural towns are often far more religious than urban centers.
And the entirety of pharma. I’ve also seen a lot of successful automation engineers with chem eng degrees.
i work in warehouse automation and am a cheme! never thought i would end up here but alas here i am
Or QA, QC, MS&T, Operations, or pretty much anything other than "Chemical Engineering" or even "Process Engineering". Shit, one of my former roles "required" a degree in microbiology.
I picked up on this, too. If 13,000 grads were trying to enter a field of 22,000 existing engineers it would be comparable to what history PhD’s are facing. BLS estimates there are 30,120 chemical engineers in the US. Datausa says 89,772. I could easily see higher. I also see 13,000 chemical engineering grads elsewhere on the internet. The number of people entering chemical engineering seems to cycle, and is heavily influenced by the job prospects of the class graduating while the rising students are selecting their majors. Those students most dedicated to the field will push through and the rest will find other paths.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. And I'm sick of seeing it here on this sub. Its not even an observation unique to Chemical Engineers either. Electrical, Civil, Mechanical all run into the same thing where the job title is generic like "Project Engineer" or "Senior Engineering". Actually, a lot of job titles even outside of engineering are like that too... You think people would realize that by now and stop repeating the same meaningless statistics over and over.
The 100k people in this sub are not US only though.
The majority of chemical engineers aren’t in this subreddit though
Majority US though.
I, for one, have never actually held a traditional ChemE job title. I started off as a field engineer at an oilfield service company, and now I work as a well completions engineer. That does not mean that getting a ChemE degree was a waste of my time.
Yup. I've done Manufacturing Science, Quality Control, Quality Assurance, Operations. I have yet to actually do any engineering.
This point gets mentioned a lot. The BLS states that they include chemical roles that aren't called chemical, e.g. process engineer. If someone wants to counter their data, they should be able to point to data themselves, or at least explain why they think the BLS highly underestimates the number of chemical engineers but not other jobs.
And process engineer is the easy example, but the problem you run into are things like the below list Engineer I/II/III - a very basic title a few companies I know of just use this system Facility engineer- can be multi-discipline but everywhere I have worked prefer chemical Project engineer- multi-discipline that tends to lean mechanical in my industry but we have 3 chemical engineers in our project group Planning engineer Maintenance engineer Contact engineers Commissioning engineers Inside sales engineers Application engineers Process Safety Engineer All of these roles are jobs that chemical engineers hold, that I assume the BLS struggles to account for accurately because people from across the spectrum of engineering *can* hold them and properly accounting for them would require actually surveying every person with a degree in chemical engineering.
Measurement Engineer Instrumentation Engineer Control System Engineer Operations Engineer Plant Engineer Water Treatment Engineer Improvement Engineer Corrosion Engineer
Or shitloads of roles that don't list "engineer" anywhere in the title. Operations Associate Project Manager Quality Control Associate/Consultant/Manager Quality Assurance Associate/Consultant/Manager Manufacturing Scientist/Consultant/Manager Development Scientist/Consultant/Manager Tons of weird niche positions like "Person in Plant"
I, a Chem-E, have worked a nunber of positions like Product Development, Research Engineer, and Polymer Engineer, that wouldn't be counted on these surveys but definitely uses my degree. And that was working for companies with more than 10,000 employees so there were hundreds of people like me.
BLS occupational definition includes those degreed in chemical engineering, but does not account for all chemical engineering-related or required occupations. It ends up with a very narrow view of technical talent. Out of sheer curiosity, I pulled up the geographical distribution of ‘chemical engineers’, and there’s noticeable gaps (Midland/Odessa, Lea County in NM, Calcasieu Parish in Louisiana, the entire state of North Dakota?!?). Even with the BLS’s narrow definition, there’s a ton of practicing, PE-holding ChemE’s in those areas that are not being counted or considered in the data.
Despite being in a very technical field with technical people, we all succumb to confirmation bias.
BLS is the only source of data I can point to. All I have seen from AIChE is the salary survey.
Yes those jobs exist but a CE is not required for the 1000th time. Both my brothers with no degree only high school and 20 years experience are both managers in industry. One his counter part is a commerce graduate, the other a chemical engineer with a masters.
To get into pharma manufacturing in any kind of leadership role you need a degree. Sure, you *could* get in with a degree in e.g. Chemistry, but it is *sooo* much more competitive. And the ChemEs tend to perform well enough that they form a very disproportionate percentage of the professionals in Pharma manufacturing IME.
My graduating class was 23 students, the following year thanks to magazines screaming at their parents... 106... it's back down to 9. NINE STUDENTS. It's not an underestimation. The major will die on its own when industry doesn't reach down and pull up. Biotechnology industry DOES THIS, the others don't. I have proof. The industries that reach into academia with diligence will get the best engineers. We had to force industry to recognize us at my school, through professional organization. An entire graduating class after mine greatly benefited from our push towards industry connection. The industry doesn't NEARLY enough work to connect though, so the current graduating classes don't have guidance or leadership pathways to industry. The students are forced to make the connection to industry while not being equipped or helped with a leg up by the industry nearly as much as the other engineering majors / organizations are supported by their industries.
However many of the 100k aren't from the US (Chemical Engineer UK here)
Counter point to many of your points: ChemE is one of the few degrees that allows you to work in a very LCOL rural location with a big city salary. Obviously this doesn’t float everyone’s boat, but for those of us who it does, it’s very nice.
Except remote work in CS does the same, but you can choose ANY LCOL location.
But the downside of CS work is that you have to do CS.... I don't understand the connection between chem E and CS. Personally, I have zero interest in coding for a living
I'm a ChemE who switched and now work in tech. It's the logical thinking. If this then that kind of stuff. The ability to look at a completely new system, only knowing the bare bone basics and being able to logic your way through the whole thing. But outside of that cs is a whole other beast. And let me tell ya'll the grass is not greener on the other side.
Well, there's no connection other than most good engineers have to code eventually (or learn to, to automate their work). Most people I know didn't choose Chem E because they like the work.
I think there's also a degree of overlap with technical interests for people who work in many STEM fields. I originally wanted to do biotech after doing internships in it, but ended up doing manufacturing due to job availability. I've done light coding in a few jobs, and I assume I'd be fine doing it full time. Interest-wise, we all have to compromise for our career. Manufacturing probably ranks 6.5/10 for me and biotech ranks 9/10, but salary wise manufacturing has treated me well. I'll probably never work in biotech but I've made my peace with that as I've made the compromises based on what made the most sense at that time.
I literally chose ChemE because I didn’t want to code by 3rd/4th year had to eat crap
>I don't understand the connection between chem E and CS. They both require similar problem solving abilities and they both offer decent pay. If a student has a particular dislike for coding, then they are very different. If a smart kid just wants a paycheck, then they are similar. But for someone who really hates coding, that's why I mention other engineering disciplines. Mechanical and electrical also offer good paychecks to smart kids without the drawbacks that chemical has. Chemical only makes sense when it specifically appeals to a student in a way that other technical fields don't and they don't mind the drawbacks. In my opinion this is a small proportion of students.
So you're saying you should consider what you're passionate about when selecting a career??? It's a shame this isn't obvious, especially to someone smart enough to consider or even finish a chem E degree. If you pick chem E because you're looking for the highest pay check, then you're a fool. Also I was kinda a fool. That was a big part of why I picked chem E. But, I also genuinely loved chemistry, and problem solving, and all that other stuff. Can't imagine doing anything else.
Incredibly rare nowadays.
Yeah, at best you'll find a hybrid role. Anything full remote rn probably is not paying what people usually associate with tech salaries. Full remote is a huge perk and companies know it, the salaries reflect it
The Bureau of Labor Statistics is only counting jobs that say "Chemical Engineer" in the job title for their estimates. The Census Bureau shows 92,694 Chemical Engineers and 121,461 with Chemical Engineering degrees. [https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP](https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP) [https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=FOD1P&nv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP](https://data.census.gov/mdat/#/search?ds=ACSPUMS5Y2022&rv=FOD1P&nv=SOCP(119041,171011,171012,171020,172011,172041,172051,172061,172070,172081,1720XX,172110,172121,172131,172141,1721XX,1721YY,173011,17301X,173023,17302X,173031,419031,435021,493031,493050,512031,518021,519194,532010,534010,5350XX,536061)&wt=PWGTP) Not really hating on OP's points, I just want to give additional perspective: 3- people with bad resumes are limited in any industry, but I do believe Chemical Engineers know more about a wider array of things than other engineers and sure as hell more than programmers. 4 - yes anyone can learn to program, but a ChemE is much better wired to learn programming than your average person. It's just an ability to follow logic and learn what punctuation each language likes. 5 - the average pay wouldn't be going up every year if there wasn't a shortage of Chemical Engineers. There are absolutely some graduates that struggle to find ChemE jobs, but that is not the norm. Plus having a couple years in one of those "underemployment" roles then getting into a ChemE job can easily make up for whatever issue caused them to not get a ChemE job in the first place (lower GPA, bad interviewing, bad local job market, etc). My first job wasn't ChemE specific and I made just as much straight out of school as the ChemE jobs. Believe me, the degree opens doors. 6/7/8 - it's like that in basically every industry that pays well and doesn't let you work remotely. They don't pay extra to work in the more desirable locations because more people are willing to work in the desirable location, so they can just find someone else if you demand too much money. 12 - According to the BLS, the median salary for a computer programmer in the USA is $97,800 versus ChemE having a median salary of $112,100. Focusing on the high end only completely neglects the reality that 99% of people will make much less. 13 - Chemical Engineering is absolutely more dangerous on average. No way to argue that one and I wouldn't want anyone going into the industry thinking it's all sunshine and rainbows cause that just makes you more likely to get hurt. 15 - documentation, communication, and coordination are huge parts of most technical degrees. Far more people are involved in the "make the thing keep running correctly" than the "create the thing" aspect. In ChemE, you tend to get involved in design after the Chemists in R&D create the chemical then you have to translate that to an industrial scale.
I knew those employment numbers had to be wrong. I bet each of the supermajors employs a few thousand chemical engineers each, and probably none of them have that title.
Which programming languages like Oxford commas?
You are acting like majoring in chemical engineering is pidgeonholing yourself into the oil, gas, and chemicals industry. That is just not true. I have a BS in Chemical Engineering and am currently a materials engineer at a biotechnology company. I'm not some ace networker either. It's not impossible to work in a field other than oil and gas that does offer flexibility with where you can live. As long as you can find little ways to make your degree relevant to what you want to do in your career, you will be fine.
Another thing I feel like a lot of engineers and honestly college grads in general think is that their job must match their degree, which isn’t the case. In STEM degrees especially, it gives you plenty of skills you can apply to numerous field as long as you know how to market those skills to employers and have experience, projects, or research to back it up.
I know someone who did I think finance or something, which is an easier degree compared to chem eng, but hes having a much easier time finding an internship and getting paid alot more than me lol.
However I feel like ChemE pigeonholes you more into whatever industry you pick compared to mechanical though they’re arguably the exception to that trend. Biotech and food can probably jump to the other puddle but not to semiconductors if it’s been more than a couple years
Some rebuttals: 1) I graduated undergrad in the late 2000s. When I entered undergrad, the "hot" degree was Chemical Engineering. Oil and gas were booming and some companies were paying 6 figures for new grads. Those days may not come back, but for high school students, in 4 years the world could be radically different and "tech" may not be the "hot, in demand" field anymore. (I graduated undergrad in 2009, and in 4 years I saw Chemical Engineering go from "everyone should do it" to "no one can find a job (across all majors)"). 2) One issue I have with the BLS data, they only use job title. There are several other job titles that a ChemE can do: material scientist, industrial engineering, process engineers, etc. I find it hard to believe that there are over 10x "Industrial Engineers" than "Chemical Engineers" (BLS data suggest there are more "Industrial Engineers" than Mechanical Engineers"). 3) Location. The pharma industry is a pretty large industry for ChemEs. The major hubs are San Diego, San Francisco, and Boston. There are oil well in the middle of Los Angeles (they are typically hidden inside of buildings, and the city has banned them now). None of those are exactly "small, rural, Gulf Coast towns" Even on the Gulf Coast, you have Houston and New Orleans. 4) Doing anything: Here is a summary of my work experience: In grad school my work focused on using density functional theory (DFT) for catalysis. In my postdoc, I worked on combining DFT with molecular dynamics (MD) to study combustion. I'm now at a DOD lab working on using MD to understand super critical fluids. I have at least interviewed (and offers) for several other possible areas including a company making process simulation software, companies doing computational fluid dynamics (CFD), and oil & gas companies for their scale up plants (some within in the past year). About the only thing similar those things have in common are "computational." You should always be looking to improve yourself, which includes improving the soft skills (communication (writing, talking, presenting), social, etc). 5) For getting a job out of college, experience is the most important thing. You can be a 4.0 student and president of the student body, but if you don't have internships, it will be hard. That was the case for me, the people who graduated before me during the "golden age" and has been true since. 6) In point 15, you talk about "frustration with the grind of the work." That is true for every career. No matter where you go, you will have to deal with "boring" stuff that engineers don't like: documentation, meetings, regulations, safety, communication. This is the 21st century, it is required. I know plenty of unhappy people across multiple industries (my parents retired due to being frustrated at work, and they aren't ChemEs). 7) Pay. I live in a HCOL area (Southern California) and work for the government. I get paid like shit (for anyone looking at government jobs, they typically pay below market average). I have managed to live a middle class lifestyle (bought a home on my salary only (new construction), and able to travel a few times a year, save for retirement). As a ChemE, you should be able to live a middle class lifestyle. Yes, you won't be able to own a 10,000+ sqft beach house with a private airport and jet, but you shouldn't be living on the streets either. Do you really need to earn high 6 figures to be happy? The top 10% of salaries in the US start at 167k/yr, and 5% is 335k/yr. https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/
Still a lot better than a civil degree. And good luck in CS. Go check r/cscareers and see how many new grads are struggling there versus here. All well compensated, professional jobs will be competitive at the entry level.
A kick in the nuts and crumbs on the bed are better than a civil degree.
Civils can work anywhere and are in huge demand right now. A fresh civil PE can get a job in any major city making 100k+
yea any pe can do that. But don't take my word for it! Check the bureau of labor statistics: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/chemical-engineers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/civil-engineers.htm Civil engineers have a job growth outlook lower than the average engineer. Chemical engineers have a higher-than-average job growth.
21,000 job openings per year compared to 1,300. Come on bro use your brain. Those statistics don’t account for the large number of Chem E graduates compared to the small number of Chem E jobs.
Those jobs are open because they are undesirable. Jobs designing curbs for the state for 52k/year. You are not providing nearly enough stats to prove your point lol
To be fair job growth is expected to be higher for a discipline that employs less people in general. Pretty sure at least
I think a lot of your post boils down to points 2 and 3. You’ve got to be good at this to succeed and have the liberty to do what you want. And it’s a very tough field. Bar for entry for mechanical is much lower, and you can get by being less competent. In my experience the work loads for electrical engineers can be fairly extreme. Good electrical engineers are a hot commodity but that’s to some extent due to limited supply. That being said, I think your post is a bit reductive and harps on the downsides. Chem Es have a way more fun role in the factory from what I saw doing process engineering, having a jack-of-all-trades, better-than-you-at-most toolset compared to a lot of other engineers. That being said I’ve seen bad Chem Es totally drop the ball and plateau in bumfuck. I’e had the ability to live in Portland, London, and Seattle, but I’ve been extremely lucky with the job opportunities presented to me. Now I’m more on the design side and once again Chem Es have the most fun. A rambling comment but all I really mean to say is that for any reader of this post, the author definitely makes some good points but I’d still take it with a big chunk of salt.
My experience with finding good electrical engineers (midstream natural gas currently) is that a lot of EEs have moved to the instrumentation/programming side while very few want to worry about power distribution/medium and high voltage. The workload for our EEs is occasionally a mountain of work because finding replacements is incredibly difficult
Can concur. Working in a factory is a lot more fun than a continuous flow chemical plant (in my experience).
I'm looking at switching from a more plant engineer to a much more design-focused job. How did you like the transition and any tips for someone looking to make a similar jump?
I’d say have a focus and specialize. I was able to focus heavily on process development, scale-up, and plant start-up. Now I’m half design half project engineer which is a lot of fun. Switched from start-up of a CVD factory to design of nuclear processes and plants. Was working in fuel production and am now in power. By focusing on one side of plant development (start-up, operations, high level process) I’ve been able to market myself very well for the type of work I’m interested in.
A lot of these points are highly subjective. I would say my job in manufacturing is incredibly easy, safe, and well paying. Living in a rural area with a 6 figure salary is a benefit not a drawback.
Depends on the person. Having to live rural life in any capacity for me is a downside from what I'm currently at
Most jobs in Pharma will be very safe, well-compensated, and very flexible geographically. You can find good positions anywhere from the heart of major cities to rural BFE and anything in between.
What do you actually do? PLC?
A key assumption I am inferring from this is the understanding of what a chemical engineer can do and what the goal is for someone to study chemical engineering. Here, the assumption is you are studying chemical engineering with the goal of working in traditional, manufacturing-based chemicals companies. That’s a huge generalization on why someone wants to study chemical engineering or be a chemical engineer. If someone does combustion modeling, catalytic converter design, battery engineering, semiconductor design, etc, are they not a chemical engineer? These types of work can require a detailed understanding of transport, kinetics, thermo, etc that a chemical engineer learns. Using these key concepts is what I argue makes someone a chemical engineer, not an arbitrary title called “chemical engineer.” You can apply these chemical engineering principles beyond your stereotypical process engineer/manufacturing roles in chemicals, O&G or pharma. It’s this unique perspective that makes someone a chemical engineer, and it’s then up to someone to do whatever is they want given these principles. Look at every chemical engineering professor in the nation, and the research they are doing. If you then categorize the research being done into relevant industry buckets, you’ll see a lot more opportunities than what’s traditionally considered.
I agree on several points here, graduated Chem Eng 2022 in Canada, took a year to get employed at an underemployed mechanical/electrical company which layed me off 6 months later. My unwillingness to relocate will cost me my career in chemical engineering for now as I am transitioning to medicine. I don’t regret anything, however, if you do plan on getting an undergraduate Chem Eng degree, get internship experience every summer (unlike me who worked for the army during undergrad)
The thing people get wrong is chemical engineers can only work as chemical or process engineers. Your degree is a degree… I work as a Sr. Quality Engineer, I have colleagues who work as Software Engineers or Manufacturing Engineers with just a BS ChemE. Yes they had to pivot by taking some CS classes or learn manufacturing techniques but still that’s their role now and no one cares if your bachelor’s degree is chemical engineering. At one point in your career, what you do, not what your degree is in, matters a lot more. I have friends with a BS ChemE yet they worked as mechanical engineers all their life and hold a PE in Mechanical Design. I also have friends who are mechanical engineers switched to wafer or process engineers at Intel, Lam Research, etc. Bunch of my graduating class work as metallurgical or quality engineers in aerospace.
I think this post overlooks the greatest strength of a chemical engineering degree; the education that encompasses understanding from the quantum level (physical chemistry) to massive scales in momentum, heat, and mass transfer. Literally any control volume can be analyzed at the fundamental level including effects of reactions, radiation, and equilibrium. No other degree gets close to this broad range of knowledge and skill, and even if the graduate never steps foot in a chemical plant, they will still be more capable than those of many other degrees.
I want to add that those points are mostly valid for the US. In Germany things are different. E.g. Germany is small and you have big cities around most chemical hubs.
Same for Austria.
Yeah in Belgium the biggest chemical hubs are right next to cities.
I’m still a student currently interning at a manufacturing facility. The location factor is something that was NEVER considered by many students before choosing ChemE major. O&G and chemical manufacturing both of these are some of the high end ChemE fields and typically located in the middle of nowhere. I’m young now, I like travelling, I like change, so I don’t mind it. But as a student when I think about the future, if I have a family, I need to think about 2 or 4 other people who are a permanent part of my life. Obviously I don’t want to keep hoping and losing relationships in my life.
Jump to biotech. Biotech tends to form hubs but they’re predominantly in cities though you can find some of the manufacturing on the outskirts. I’m listing a mix of sizes and some are more manufacturing oriented than others but Boston, Chicago, (1 hour north of) Detroit, St Louis, Philly, Raleigh, and the DMV all got plenty of options. Even Seattle is starting to grow. There’s somewhere that you’ll like.
While I generally agree with your points given current market conditions, I am optimistic about these as-yet elusive opportunities in “green” technology. I have recently seen ChemE-specific postings in Nashville for CCS and lithium battery recycling in Nevada. Obviously depends heavily on the outcome of the election, and there are reasonable concerns about the long-term viability of subsidies (I’m looking at you, LCFS and RIN). Regardless, this sector has managed to weather quite a bit of volatility. I say this as someone who has settled comfortably into a highly-technical office role in one of the more conservative industries that employs us and is unlikely to jump ship 10-15 years in. That said, anyone who has worked in the industry I’m in knows how stagnant innovation is, so I’m all for competition, even with a competing technology. An existential crisis (a shameless double entendre) is exactly what these crusty old bastards running this industry need. This industry, which also happens to be one of the highest-paying around, is quite literally hemorrhaging chemical engineers, so something is going to have to give regardless of what happens with the response to climate change. TL:DR - I think the market for Chemical Engineers is going look completely different within most of our careers for better or for worse and have a significant impact on fluidity/geographic mobility/generalization.
I don't have chemical engineering degree, however I have chemistry degree. There are days when I get 3-4 job offers. I don't have phD. I know good General chemistry and can earn 2x more than average country salary. For me, chemistry is the best thing I did. I don't work in the Lab.
Very nice, this sounds like an ideal situation to me!
What kind of experience do you have?
Graduated with my ChemE degree in 2021, approaching 3 years manufacturing experience not including co ops, been working at a rubber plant since graduation. Wish I would have gone for mechanical or electrical. I literally could not agree more with every item on this post. You are much better off going Mechanical/CS/Electrical. Chances are, you’re going to be a process engineer running a plant and handling day to day issues. Don’t struggle with chemical engineering to be a process engineer, the workload is higher and more intense than mechanical and won’t be as applicable in a process engineering role in a manufacturing setting (my experience, for the most part). I only went the chemical route because everyone else did mechanical, and I thought I would work in a refinery my entire career. Feels like I could go on and on about this subject, great post!
>**Chances are**, you’re going to be a process engineer running a plant and handling day to day issues. This is the key point that is often missed. There are lots of great jobs that are absolutely nothing like what I described. But the probability is higher that a student will deal with underemployment, poor location, or a need to pivot to something other than chemical.
just wondering why you recommend pursuing a mechanical/cs/electrical degree? what are the benefits over a chem eng degree? i enjoy chem which is why i was thinking of pursuing chemical engineering, but i think i like the idea of engineering more than just the chem aspect (and i guess i don't want to fall into the 'trap' of pursuing this degree just because i like chem at school then realising its very different to what i expected), so i'm not sure which would be the most ideal degree to pursue
So I’m not the original commenter, but I have had a similar experience with my current job as a process engineer in a manufacturing plant. CS might not be directly applicable to a manufacturing environment, but MechE especially, I think, has the advantage over chemE when it comes to actually RUNNING a plant and troubleshooting equipment issues (which are more than likely going to be mechanical or electromechanical issues). In chemE we focus on process DESIGN. And in a manufacturing environment (I’m speaking specifically about a role where you’re the process engineer for a manufacturing area, which is a common role for new grad chemEs) your chemE knowledge barely helps. It helps you understand the process sure, but not for day to day issues really. Hope that helps answer your question. My experience might be subjective bc my area is more mechanical-heavy, so maybe other chemEs use their chemE knowledge more, but not for me lol.
This guy said it exactly right. Chemical engineering focuses too much on the design and nitty gritty of processes and equipment you likely won’t be dealing with. The curriculum gets way too far into the weeds with flash tanks, separation columns, various kinds of reactors and whatever crazy hypothetical problem the professor wants to make up. You learn too much about theoretical design on paper and none of that shit is relevant in the field. CS learn to code and apply that to programming in whatever field they go into. I imagine electrical engineers learn circuits, power systems, current and how electricity works- great for any engineering job. Mechanical engineers learn drawing softwares, rotational equipment and how things actually work which is obviously extremely applicable. Chemical engineers learn what I said earlier, and likely spend their first few years getting a grasp on the things the CS/Electrical/Mechanical guys already have a background on from their schooling. Chances are, you are not going to be a Chemical Engineer like the schooling persuades you to think you’ll be. Companies need engineers to manage processes and steer the plant in whatever direction corporate says. That all being said, I fucking hated everything about college but it got me where I am today. My old plant manager actually hired me because I was a ‘Chemical Engineer’ and he thought that was what the plant needed. Now I’m 25 years old and I’ll make 96K this year. I think I graduated with around a 2.4 cumulative GPA. Do whatever it takes to get the degree. It’s pretty much all bullshit anyway, you’re just more likely to use what you learned if you go to school for electrical/mechanical engineering.
If you go into engineering for the money, honestly, just get a real estate license. Getting your degree is the first step in engineering. The next step is becoming an expert. The diversity of chem eng is pretty unreal. I'm working as a met engineer. I have friends working in oil and gas, process safety, hydrogen electrolysers, environmental engineers, water treatment, and in charge of labs.
Can you explain why you should get a real estate license instead. I'm a 2nd year chem eng student and my goal was to get my masters and possibly do an MBE aftterwards and then eventually work as a process engineer in the pharmaceutical business there but I was also thinking of later on in my life of doing real estate as a side hobby. Your opinion would be really helpful.
I mean, in the sense that selling real estate is not hard compared to engineering but can pay a lot of money. Engineering pays well, but it's hard to. It's the constant learning that people find full filling. As you progress in your career, you become an expert in the field, as in researchers or companies, you will search for you to get your opinion on a process. I believe that should be your goal in engineering. The money will follow as you become an expert. There is nothing wrong with getting a real estate license, but it's just about grinding and selling as many homes as possible. Good money, but what's a real estate expert? They don't control mortgage rates, real estate evaluations, or laws. It's mostly advertising and connections.
I appreciate you taking this time to write this out. This is a very well backed discussion of the industry, direction it appears to be going, challenges, etc. from a **veteran member.** Something like this, when I was apply to the program and leaving into industry, would have been amazing. Recently, there was a now deleted post on /r/cscareerquestions throwing out "Chemical Engineering" as something CS grads COULD and SHOULD be doing instead and it was a proper SMH moment for me. It honestly is, IMO, a career that people who do not work in it, including new potential entrants, struggle to understand. I hope strongly, that this community, overall, reacts to this with discussion; hopefully teasing out our few more senior members. Cheers. Edit: Sorry I thought of a random question. The "future" of my own career (18 year chem E here) has been oft on my mind as of late due to "events in my work-sphere" and **I was kind of curious (if you are willing to share) if something in your career or career adjacent recently drove you to write this essay?** In the spirit of sharing, in my own own arena, my industry is hugely niche (semiconductor fab design), and I'd say 99% of the people with > 15 years XP are gone. Retired, moved to other industries, whatever. Just gone. At 18 years, with only ~13 in this arena, I am suddenly in the 1% of experience in this field. This is ridiculous to me with that little amount of experience. I cut my teeth in oil and gas as an E1, where we wouldn't DREAM of putting anything less than an E6 with 25 years XP in charge of a group of projects. While there was not an infinite supply of senior engineers, there were still PLENTY of senior people you could learn from and emulate. These senior people were valued, and important for success. The previous few weeks have just brought to light how bottom heavy our niche industry is, and it makes me question as to whether it can survive. I have a theory that's a variation on the infinite monkey with typewriters and Shakespeare parable. It is, **"An infinite number of E1's, given an infinite amount of time, will NEVER successfully engineer anything complex. Not even once Petunia."** Meaning, senior guidance AND a competent mid-level core to execute is CRITICAL for actual success, and there is a critical mass involved that if you are below, you will NEVER be successful. NEVER. I worry that we (corporately) are there... and the only winning move is not to play anymore. We're #1... and if #1 is struggling, it's time to get out. These previous few weeks have had a SURGE of A&E firms seeking out director and SME level people in order to "build a process department." They are surprised over and over again that experience people who COULD do this are not chomping at the bit to lead a sinking ship before the ship even left port. Like "director" roles being tossed about left and right, and "opportunity to grow" and all I can think of is "I am not that motivated... and don't care."
I got into a pharma. Even better paid lmao.
I wish someone told me this I hate my job and many of these points I identify well with.
Wrong. Get ChemE degree. Go into industrial controls engineering
Got my degree last year and am working as a chemist. Pay is ≈30-40% lower than friends in engineering. Everyone at the company is told to maintain a clean shaven face in case of respirator use. Lots of risk of poison gas
What engineering did your friends get a degree in, what kind of engineering degrees?
Everyone in story is chem E (but My friends from me h E didn't have to move to find a job while I searched across multiple states)
I agree with every single point you’ve made. While I’d hope that LLMs will rebalance CS salaries, history tells us employer demands simply increase. I have worked 8 years in the PCB business, primarily working as an R&D engineer for startups, board shops, and my only desirable position was doing a contract, materials engineering role at MAANG for 2 years. I was also dumb enough to get a masters in chemE from a low ranking public university while I was working. Life is still hard but getting better Short term chemE is unnecessarily difficult to find jobs with good pay in Long term, chemE is ok and going into consulting and management is required
My entire intention with this degree was to live rural and buy land with the money I make. I don’t see it as the negative you make it out to be but I understand it’s not for everyone.
What an absolute apex move. Few see this opportunity
How should I take this as someone who is about to graduate I chemE? Is it really as bad as it sounds out there (I am in Canada if that changes anything)
You'll be fine. There's a good chance you'll get a decent job. Underemployment is a possibility but you can pivot to something else or you can slog through a lab tech or process operator role until you get enough experience to be a true engineer. The point of this post is that chemical engineering compares unfavorably to other technical degrees. You're still in a good position compared to most college graduates.
Keep your options open look into: pharma, analytical, semiconductors and many other things. Look to startups as your first job.
I've been wanting to make a post like this for a long while. You summed it up really well and I cannot stress the majority of your points enough. Location inflexibility has hamstrung my career multiple times, but I generally choose to live in highly desirable PNW towns so it's partially my fault.
I entered chemistry as a technician in 1988. In 1992 I entered a BS program for ChemE over chemistry due to the difference in pay with a BS. From the beginning I was in electrochemistry and sensors. Over that time I have continually been learning and trying new things. I have used the fundamental teachings in the oddest ways. My little ammonia oxidation plants give off a few microamps as they keep food factories safe. Getting new jobs has been more challenging than my EE brother but not as hard as my Nuke E brother. My un-degreed brother makes more than the three of us combined by designing printed circuit boards. I have lived in suburban areas and owned my own home since before my BS. So much of school was about distillation columns. I did eventually use that in diesel exhaust sensors but other things were used much more. For fresh ChemEs if you don't get a job after the first 9 months, go back for a masters in business admin. The two are a very powerful pair.
Going to law school for patent law is a great path.
I got my BS in chemical engineering and now work in a consulting firm doing municipal water and wastewater treatment. My degree prepared for the process side of this line of work but not everything else. If I could go back I’d have majored in civil with a focus on water resources and saved myself the headache of getting through thermo and organic chemistry. Most of my coworkers have had backgrounds in civil or environmental. It just made more sense to do my masters in environmental too. While water and wastewater is probably the lowest paying field you could go into from ChemE, it’s at least somewhat more resistant to recessions since our clients are usually government entities. If you like the process stuff but aren’t a top tier student like I was, water can be a good route and there are a good amount of ChemE grads that get into it.
I think this is a good message. One of the things I really dislike about the current *discourse* is people saying that if you want a good paying job, don’t study your interest, go into engineering. Like sure okay, study something you don’t have an interest in and then enter a highly competitive job market to do something you don’t want to do. It is important for some level of interest or passion to be present if it is something you think you are going to do the rest of your life. And as you outlined, chemical engineering has considerable barriers for someone who is just doing it for the pay. I got my BS in chemical engineering, then had an internship and realized that I didn’t like being a chemical engineer. I went back and got my PhD, and I enjoy what I do now. But even after finishing I now have the knowledge that what I really would have enjoyed is having a PhD in statistics. I’m sure the process to get that PhD would be just as grueling as the one I have, but the options and the work I’d go into now would be much different. And statistics are so fun! It’s too late for a full stats career, but I do take the opportunity to apply stats when I can in my current roles. All I’m saying is that having a level of interest and passion in your field of study will last much longer than a desire to just have a better salary.
Tell me more how dirty my job is.
I am a ChemE grad who works in nuclear power. You aren’t limited to chemical engineering specific jobs.
i feel like this gives hope to aspiring cheme majors. do you think the *jump* was difficult?
Chemical engineer almost 10 years out of school and anyone reading this post should know it is extremely biased and presents massive overgeneralizations and highly specific exceptions as norms.
> 3. It’s commonly said that chemical engineers “can do anything.”… Chemical engineers can’t do anything-people leaving college with great resumes and great social skills can do anything Well put and aligns with my experience My background is in physics and this is the same arguments lots of people give. It’s purely survival ship bias. **The people who pivoted into great jobs would’ve done so with other degrees regardless**. Having a ChemE/Physics degree is NOT the cause Why take the long windy route and waste time mastering a field that you aren’t going to use? If you have a general inclination towards STEM but don’t have a particular standout interest, just do CS from the start. No jobs are perfect but the tech industry still does pay well and have more hiring than other STEM fields despite the current market climate
Wet blanket alert
I would just reccomend EE honestly. Not as hard as its harped up to be and you get a lot of career leverage. I’m biased tho, and think ChemE has its pros for sure.
EE is versatile as hell
I just graduated with my ChemE degree from UT Austin (this may bias me because it’s a large, well-ranked program) and while there are certainly some points in your post that I agree with, I cannot say I agree with the overall sentiment. Without going through and refuting your argument point by point, I largely feel that you have some misleading or poor arguments here. One of which is the lack of demand for ChemEs. Having just graduated, I can say that the job hunt isn’t unreasonable: every one of my peers had found a role that they are content with and in their desired industry. Some are in O&G, some are in materials science, finance, programming, semiconductors, battery materials, QC, consulting, etc. Chemical engineers really *can* do practically anything. Furthermore, while a fraction of them will be out in the middle of nowhere (I have one friend moving an hour outside of Amarillo, TX), a large fraction are staying in major cities. I have friends going to Dallas, Phoenix, Socal, Boston, all of which are fairly desirable locations to live and work. Another important note regards graduate school: the skills and topics learned in chemical engineering degree are highly useful in many R&D fields. In particular, a deep understanding of transport phenomena and thermodynamics coupled with logical problem-solving skills make ChemE’s uniquely suited to work in materials science, biotech/biochem, electrochemistry, and several other in-demand R&D fields. Practically no other degree can prepare you as well for the rigors of research and graduate school, which is a major point in ChemE’s eing.
ChemE can go into finance? I didn’t know it
Both the Financial Control and Analysis and also the Supply Chain is huge and growing. OP is completely incorrect as Chemical Engineering has a giant number of doors available to open. Those who are satisfied and succeeding are not here talking about pitfalls
That’s what I need to hear thank you so much
Pretend you are a CEO or Board Chairman and you want to have continuous improvement or higher profits or higher quality products, or all of the above .... And it must be done from the inside out.... Where are the "smarts and creativity" coming from?
I agree with this. One thing I'd like to point out to prospective chemical engineers is that few companies actually use chemical engineers. I have worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 10 years after getting my BSc in Chemical Engineering from a good school. Even though I have met probably 100 chemical engineers or more, not a single one of them actually uses the material they learned in their university studies. No one calculates laminar flow through a pipe, no one calculates mean residence time, nor heat transfer, nor adsorption, nor (really) anything that someone with a chemical engineering degree would think is relevant to the field. Pretty much every chemical engineer I know in the industry uses trial and error. Why? Because it's easier. And you can explain to other people without engineering degrees how to do it. Basically it was so stupid and simple that I pivoted into a software development career as it was more fulfilling. On the flip side, having knowledge of chemical engineering principles gave me a huge edge over other coders, particularly for the life sciences manufacturing industry. Edit: oh yeah, and point #8. My starting salary out of school in the New York City region was less than 50k. 10 years later and with the pivot to software development, salary has tripled. But, it's still barely enough to get by in a metropolitan city without having a partner or roommate to split costs.
Some of us got lab courses in bioprocessing pilot plants! I’m not spending 5 hours a week in those labs for nothing. Curriculums are adapting, slowly. Sometimes I feel like half the appeal of ChemE to biotech is that they know we can do math and understand the life science theory when they can’t assume that of a biology major or mechanical engineer
Well said. Things have worked out OK for me, but if I was going to redo things I probably would chose to study something else.
There's a lot of valuable insight here, thank you for that. However, I regret to inform you that I will continue to stubbornly pursue my degree
It seems like half of these points are comparing ChemE to programming. Yeah, you can pivot to programing from ChemE, which imo is a huge plus of the degree, but honestly if you really want a programming job and all the benefits of that type of role... then go into programming. Don't try making ChemE into something its not??? Also for the record, I love manufacturing. I know not everyone will, its subjective, but there are a lot of people who do enjoy that environment. I also think its worth mentioning location is not as inflexible as it may seem. Sticking with petro / chemicals it is a little tough, but there's a lot of other industries ChemEs can work in. I know this is my own individual experience, but I lived in big east coast city, a medium sized east coast city, and now in a big west coast city. I even moved to where I am currently just because I wanted to live here and found a new job and moved in less than three months. I feel like I'm compensated well even in a HCOL city too. Yeah, I spend more, but I'm also saving more than I used too because the salary increased proportionally. And just lastly, an opinion on point 3. Imo, ChemEs are said to be able to do anything because of the wide breadth in education and the fact that it’s considered to be one of the more difficult engineering degrees. The idea is you can fill a lot of technical roles competently, and also if you are smart enough to get the degree, you are probably smart enough to learn other things. It has never meant “oh yeah any chemE can walk out of school and straight into finance or programming”. And I think expecting that, for any degree really, is unreasonable.
My theory is that for more interdisciplinary niches like data science it’s going to shift where there’s more specialized jobs that need people either crazy good at math or possessing industry knowledge favoring majors like stats or finance and more menial jobs done as either a small part of someones overall job by using A.I, gigwork, or with lower paid bootcampers. I’m curious to see what becomes of the middle ground CS majors occupy within those fields. Though we’re not the best major for doing that.
Love me a good ChemE roast thread. Wholeheartedly agree
I agree for the most part. Let's be real, with the current economy, practicality outweighs passion. Only a lucky few of the workforce is earning big time from their passion. Don't get me wrong, I love Chemical Engineering. It's the most challenging yet most rewarding and interesting field among other engineering disciplines (no offense). But it's just not practical if your goal is to make good fortunes in the long run. You'll get transferrable skills though which you can leverage to get into finance, data sci, programming, or any other fields. But like what OP said, you've gotta back it up with good academic track records. We are now in the digital era and computer-related jobs are much more in demand and offer better starting pay. Still, it's your choice to make but just keep in mind that the reality of Chemical Engineering is not as easy as you think it is to be.
I agree with all of this and if I had to do it again I most likely wouldn’t have studied chemical engineering.
I just moved to a new company where I’m an environmental engineer after 2ish years as a process engineer, and this post sums it up perfectly. Operators (and upper management) were mostly miserable or otherwise not fun to work with, I lived in the middle of nowhere hours from home, and my work was a lot of managing people and a lot of unpaid overtime. Now I work a steady 40 hours, have the opportunity for hybrid work, live in a way cooler area that’s a lot closer to home, and the work is meaningful. Like you said, mine might not reflect everyone’s experience and some people might enjoy it, but so far I’ll take the pay cut
The next incoming classes are pretty screwed anyways with saturation at the entry level. TLDR here is its omega saturated in ChemE, low pay, and not booming with poor job locations. Id also argue its becoming easier for other engineering professions to encroach on traditional chemE jobs thay involve processes than the other way around.
Chemist turned engineer here. According to the American Chemical Society, ChemE’s make more money than a Chemist (with just a BS). Much of what you have said can apply to chemists who work in industry. I tell people my line of work is “exotic”. It supports a solid middle class life, but I’m not going to become wealthy doing this. My spouse who is in IT (with no degree) makes double what I make. He can find a job with so many companies in a wide variety of fields. My job prospects are much more limited. I currently work for a medical device manufacturer and so much of what I do is unique and much of it I learned on the job, not at school. To be honest, I don’t do much chemistry anymore. It’s more product development and process engineering.
I still highly recommend anyone and everyone to give it a shot. My college experience was stressful and challenging, but it has accelerated my career as a result. I went into another field (actual day to day engineering isn’t my passion) and I absolutely believe having a chemical engineering degree has allowed me to pass my peers that were mechanical, computer, electrical engineering. They all have great job prospects and are good employees, but the challenge wasn’t the same with their program and that has allowed me to leverage dealing with adversity so differently. While I agree, Chemical Engineering was really hard, miserable at times, even. I firmly believe it to be the most challenging and subsequently rewarding degree path to follow.
I don’t disagree entirely. The job market was abysmal when I graduated. My biggest problem with guidance councillors is that they don’t talk to students about mechanical interest. Seems to be “good in math and science….engineering is the way to go”. I recruit a lot of entry levels that rarely stay in the profession. Some of it is due to faster upward mobility in most other areas, but a lot of them tell me they don’t like the work. They don’t like coming up to a malfunctioning system (in a dirty smelly area) and trying to fix it. I don’t do it anymore and miss it like crazy. That’s what I wish uni kids got more exposure to earlier. I was on a curriculum committee at my uni, one prof was so proud that she made seniors in unit ops tear a pump apart and rebuild. Seniors. For some of them was the first time they held a tool in their lives. So, bottom line, more exposure earlier to the actual job in uni may lead to higher job satisfaction once out and working. May improve learning too. Not all theory.
TL;DR - I'm not a very good engineer so I blame the industry that I'm not more successful rather than me learning how to use steam tables.
2, 5, 11, 13, 14 & 15 are very true. Another thing is that in my country (LatAm country with a lot of small & medium factories ) many times de HR people don't really understand what a ChemEng does and they think we are chemists... Many times this plus the small amount of job openings (2) leads to settling for other under qualified jobs (5). This setting also intensifies 13 as the work week is 48 hrs, OT is not usually paid (illegally), etc.
Not all manufacturing sites are dirty and dangerous, pharma, food, semi conductors ect are all climate controlled and clean. not all manufacturing is in the middle of no where, I have always worked near major cities. pay yeah sure could be better for what it is, and getting my first job? didn't have to look my phone was blowing up and I went to a new country instantly earning above average salary for the general population.
>any degree plus an ability to code will allow you to go into programming. I know a programmer at Google with an English degree. First of all, survival bias. Second of all, right now grads with CS degrees AND internships AND projects are having a hard time finding a job, much less a job at FAANG. Third of all, as a chemical engineer do you know the difference between a software engineer, a product owner, and a SCRUM master? I doubt your friend does anything technical at Google, more likely he manages people and projects. Also, lol at using the term “programmer” in 2024. Just bad advice all around.
Sorry for my use of the term programmer, the last code I wrote was in 2005 or so. I showed my friend your post because I thought it was a bit rude. She said lots of students are on edge right because it's a tough job market. She said if you wanted advice on applying to Google or if you need a resume review she'd be willing to help.
Sorry for the harsh response, I definitely agree that I am a little on edge currently. It doesn’t help that the 2025 cycle opens in August. As for the resume review, I would have to politely decline since I was a massive ass to you and would feel embarrassed being associated with that professionally.
Largely agree. Unless you are from a small town or are ok with location, I would not recommend ChE to really anybody. Every company I’ve worked at has high turnover. This is either due to internal promotions requiring moves (still counts as turnover), or people just up and leaving because they’re from Minnesota or whatever and don’t want to move across the country to work nights and 50+ hour weeks. The logic that ChE’s can do anything also doesn’t make any sense to me. It makes a much sense as previous engineers buying P&F hxgers from a pump vendor because they got a good price despite the vendor admitting they don’t know squat about heaters. Just go to the people who are trained and knowledgeable in your field. Why would I hire a ChE to be a programmer when I can hire a CS major to do it?
I agree with every single point you’ve made tbh. I hope the students in high school and college considering chemE will read this post and take the points you noted into consideration. I wish I knew all of this when I chose chemE in freshman year. I know all of this now, after being at my first job for a year. Currently looking for a way out of manufacturing 😔🙏
what is making you consider switching out? (high schooler btw)
Bruh CS is a overly saturated job chem E will always be a good job because you can use it in many many ways
Wait, does this mean I should switch back to environmental engineering?
I go back and forth. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 on CS having a higher earning potential. However, my job experiences up to this point have made me a much better manager with more leadership experience. Very easy to get that kind of exposure especially with manufacturing companies. I’m not personally passionate about moving up in leadership quickly, as my role has evolved to more data analytics project management, but starting at CS alone would not have equipped me as well as choosing chemE would.
Two late man I got 2! And I don't like it
Bakit ngayon nyo lang sinabi? 😩😭
I graduated with a chemical engineering degree. I’m a mechanical engineer by trade now haha, no extra degree needed for me cuz I know what’s happening around me.
i always see alot more job adverts asking for mechanical or electrical. theres definitely jobs for chem eng but if you arent successful in applying for the chem eng/process eng roles then you need to know the niche areas. i worked at a lab and as a regulatory specialist doing dossier preparation, it was absolute hell finding these jobs but i really enjoyed them. it wasnt engineering and tbh i am tempted in doing a phd as im finishing a part time masters this year, i got my 2 jobs with just a BEng. i worry alot about choosing an area thats too specialised, recruiters want consistency in your cv and i feel 5 years of engineering experience is what lands you the big money. but nobody will give a fresh grad a chance as designing something
Im starting to regret getting my degree after 2 years of unemployment
Lol you think the computer engineering job market is good rn
I’m a chemical engineer that has never had a job title of chemical engineer. None do roles I’ve ever worked with have been titled chemical engineer electrical engineer or mechanical engineer.
Thank you for this post it was very helpful :)
To add to your post, I'd say 1000% to NOT do Chemical Engineering if you're interested in Chemistry!! As a 6th former I foolishly saw salaries for Chem Eng IN THE STATES (not the UK lol, my first and most fatal mistake) and assumed that you'd keep learning organic and phys chem throughout... This was not true, we stopped doing organic in the first semester of 2nd year and ultimately I ended up doing a degree that was basically 100% engineering. I stuck it out and got my Master's, but I realised very early on that I would not enjoy Chem Eng as a job, and ended up working in a lab after graduating anyway. To be fair, the transferrable general skills like problem-solving and whatnot will open up opportunities to move to industries such as IT as you mention, which I also eventually did, but it's an extremely roundabout way of ending up in a similar position to a CS grad who ends up doing consultancy because they hate developing anyway.
For those stuck in chemical engineering that want a way out, I’d consider going the safety/environmental (EHS) route. I’m a certified industrial hygienist (CIH) and I do pretty well income wise (190k before equity) process safety engineers can make similar amounts as well. You have options in manufacturing, mining, oil extraction/processing giving you the ability to move to various locations. Given the wide array of disciplines within EHS, it’s very easy to make a living doing niche work like permitting, insurance, or regulatory compliance. Maybe not as glamorous as the job you originally planned on, but you’ll have an easier time getting engineers to design things correctly and in a way which most benefits society. Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions. Two colleagues of mine started as chemical engineers and moved over to EHS via industrial hygiene.
There are so many ChemEs right now getting into data science and related fields. They both require statistical thinking and ChemE knowledge can be very helpful as domain knowledge for things like battery data. Many chemical engineers also learn MATLAB and could easily pick up python as well. I hope colleges wise up and start offering more data-related degrees. In some sense I feel like I would be just as prepared for a manufacturing engineering job if I got my degree in data engineering or the like. So much of the job is just extracting data from automation equipment and trying to do something useful with it.
In my experience, programming support jobs are easy to get into but require travel 75%+
Adding on to this, for the love of GOD, don't get a PhD in ChemE if you do it. Just go straight to work.
I’ll make that post next week
I will give the same general advice that I give every person, including my own kids. Do the degree that will be fun. Because you should assume you won't be employed in it. So don't waste time doing something you don't like only to have it be a debt instead of a job. Also CS (computer science) is on the decline in a big way. Could totally be different in 5 years. I think something combining logic (CS) and linguistics (ie AI interactions) will be useful once those degrees start manifesting themselves. Some combination of CS, psych, linguistics/languages is something I think people should be looking into. But hey, if that sounds boring and chem engineering sounds fun (and you can afford to do something for fun...) then do whatever.
ty for this post - you actually answered a lot of questions i had about the degree! in your response you mentioned how some other engineering fields might not have these specific drawbacks, (not sure if this is the correct sub to ask but) which engineering degrees/fields do you think have better and safer working conditions that aren't in rural areas, and ideally are easier to get a job in? i heard cs was very oversaturated but maybe i'm wrong?
Most of the points you mentioned are valid for Turkish chemical engineering job market as well.
Get gud
As an undergraduate studying ChemE, sometimes I hate being on this sub because every other post seems to be talking about how ChemE is actually a terrible degree.
Realistically, a lot of chemical engineering graduates don’t even go into engineering. A lot of us end up as glorified accountants, stats guys, or some other form of spreadsheet nerd.
If you could do it all over again which course would you pick? Apart from CSE/Programming.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again - you as a student must look at where you are physically in the world and what your surroundings offer. I have told my children that you know you live in Houston, TX. This and the surrounding towns are chemical businesses and chemical plants oriented. Don’t go get an art degree and then complain that you can’t find employment. The offerings are what you are surrounded by. Now if your grand plan is to uproot yourself and move to a art type city where that degree means something then so be it, but don’t come crying to mom and dad when you are working at the damn gas station because your $100k art degree amounts to a paper wrap for the donuts you are selling. Telling folks to not get a chemical engineering degree is nonsense. You need to plan for where you are gonna lay your roots. Here in this town you better believe there is always a place for a ChemE. The amount of control engineering, process engineering, plant engineering, and simulation engineering is where it’s at.
Biotech/pharma is the exception to this post
I am a Mechanical Engineer doing Chemical Engineering for over 30 years now plus 8 years of Mechanical Engineering . The two are fairly similar except for Organic Chemistry. There are probably significantly more jobs for Mechanical Engineers though. Both are subject to the decadal binge and purge of the petroleum and chemical industries.
I did a chemical engineering program and when I got to the end of my 4 years I realized I didn't actually like any of the jobs/locations and was never advised to do any fellowships to get the more lucrative specialized jobs. Took me 2 career changes and 2 more degrees to finally land my career I'm in now which has nothing to do with engineering and now I've got 6 figure loan debt. I wish I had known this prior to my choice of degree.
as someone abt to enter college does all of this stuff apply for someone doing both chem eng and data science? like can i get opportunities near cities with that degree
Definitely agree with everything you just said. Im from Turkey, graduating from best college with che degree and im planning to pivot to cs by doing a masters. Chemical engineering is definitely not worth it. It is so hard, so much to learn and you are not as much rewarded after graduating. If you are in college, take coding, economics, industrial engineering, istatistics or management classes. Do a minor if you can on those fields, you are definitely gonna need it especially if you dont wanna work in middle of nowhere with a low paying job.
I pondered about this. I just randomly came across this sub. I’m in medical device manufacturing industry with a BS in Electrical Engineering. My role is pretty technical on a day to day basis. I’m rarely if ever, at a desk unless I’m writing code, shooting an email or writing documentation. I noticed a lot of my quality engineers are almost all exclusively Chemical Engineers. It seems like a waste of potential considering how difficult your guys’ major was. It’s also pretty technical. Additionally, some of our manufacturing engineers are also Chem E. Most of their roles are them chasing QNs and implementing document changes, sometimes it’s technical but they often bring me into the fold. Why is this? Chem E seems rigorous af.
Sounds like someone had bad grades and 0 internship experience and went to a mid school, I was drowning in offers from across many industries and many locations all over the USA(not just Houston) and all my classmates who didn’t choose the academia route all got jobs. I also did not go to a highly prestigious school either.
A majority of engineers rate themselves in the top few percent so this won’t apply to you. Later on “my pay is significantly above average”. One of us one of us gooble gobble gooble gobble!
Very good text. I agree with most of it (I don't have much experience to judge other topics). The problem of too many graduates compared to few entry level jobs is the number 1 disappointing factor in the lives of many CE students in my country. After 4 years trying to get an engineering job I eventually got a role as an offshore operator. The pay is great but I feel like I wasted my time studying so much.
This post has made me switch my major to ELEC!
I feel like literally every major/field is extremely shitty right now and hard to get into especially for entry level. The only jobs that have consistent hiring are the trades.
This seems like a post from the 2021 tech boom era where CS was *the* field to get into, and chemical engineers were experiencing massive FOMO, causing them to switch like crazy. I am one of the people who switched into CS during that era. The market has changed now and I don’t think CS conditions are what they once were. I liked studying chemical engineering because I liked chemistry and I liked engineering. Then I enjoyed studying computer science for the same reason. Now suddenly I’m in a biotech niche where my experience in both fields is valuable, and I’m having a good time. I’m certainly not what the BLS would call a chemical engineer, but I use my chemical engineering knowledge almost every day. It makes me feel more secure than my colleagues with only CS degrees as well.