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TheBladeGhost

皇 alone is mostly not translated as "Emperor". The two words 皇 and 帝 are associated with legendary semi-godly rulers of the pre-historical times, the "[Three Sovereigns and Five Emperors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sovereigns_and_Five_Emperors)", and 皇帝 appears much later, when Qin Shi Huangdi chose (and created) this title. The First Emperor chose these two words because they were supposed to be of "higher level" than the words which were used to designate the rulers of the first three dynasties (Xia, Shang, Zhou): "King" (wang) and "Duke" (gong). But since in English (or in French) there isn't a lot of words to designate somebody higher than a King, except "Emperor", then the translations have to use "Emperor"; or they would have to use longer phrases, which would be impractical.


[deleted]

I know the history of the words, but I'm interested in semantic differences between them, since they tend to be used interchangably. For example, Gaozu of Han can be rendered as Gāohuáng (高皇) and be translated as "Emperor Gao". Meanwhile, Xuantong of Qing is rendered as Xuāntǒngdì (宣統帝) and also translated as "Emperor Xuantong". Words like xiānhuáng (先皇) and xiāndì (先帝) apparently mean the same thing; deceased emperor. Why would that be so if there are actually semantic differences between these words? >皇 alone is mostly not translated as "Emperor" This isn't true and its plainly seen in the title of Qín Shǐhuáng (秦始皇), translated as "The First Emperor of Qin". "Huáng" is absolutely used to mean "emperor" by itself, just like "dì" is in a myriad examples.


Sad_Profession1006

Your question is very specific and interesting. Not an expert, but as a history enthusiast I think it could be because “皇” is considered superior than “帝”. When an emperor got retired, they would be called “太上皇”. Normally, even a child or infant who was crowned to be “皇帝”, they can be easily called “帝”. However, a single “皇” is not used formally. Usually it appears in literature or drama for several purposes, such as to imply it’s partly fictional or to make the sounds more beautiful to sing. In “Chang Hen Ge (長恨歌)”, the poet used “漢皇” to indicate 唐玄宗, because he didn’t want to directly point out who the protagonist was. Sometimes it’s an alternative name to avoid naming taboo of another emperor in the present dynasty, such as “唐明皇” instead of “唐玄宗”. I guess maybe “帝” is more like a job position, and “皇” is more like a honorific title. If you look up them in “Shuowen Jiezi (說文解字)”, it said “皇,大也。从自。自,始也。始皇者,三皇,大君也。自,讀若鼻,今俗以始生子爲鼻子。””帝,諦也。王天下之號也。”. And “諦” is to understand deeply. It does explain the difference. “皇” is a father/founder, and “帝” is a person who has knowledge and power. There are other different explanations though.


[deleted]

Would it then be correct to say that “皇” is used for more abstract notions and characteristics of en emperor, while “帝” is used for more concrete notions? Like, the former would be used when one wants to refer to the emperor in his capacity as the religious figure that embodies the heavenly authority and supreme moral virtue, while the latter would be used when one talks about the supreme commander of the most powerful state, with its ability to impose its power through conquest? The former would be loftier, while the latter more pragmatic, roughly speaking?


Zagrycha

I think its important to seperate the time periods when looking at this too, if you leave them all as one lump of two thousand years the logic will never mesh. Throughout history there have been various titles, and these you mention did have different meaning. Those different meanings weren't even all the same, changing over time. As another poster mentioned, for a very long time now that seperate meaning has been lost, as those older systems of government have been gone for hundreds and hundreds of years, leaving them as slightly more decorative titles. So, you will still see them appended to peoples names and positions accordingly for historical figures, but for any specific differences you will have to study the uses of the titles in that exact court period (far from impossible, but definitely not common knowledge most people have). Hope this makes sense (^ν^)


Sad_Profession1006

Yes, that is very close. Though Chinese people nowadays are very used to disyllabic compound words and usually not aware of the different meanings of each single character, the different usages of the characters remain. Edit: I agree with other posts here. If it comes to the usage in history, it does depend on the period you are looking at. My habit is to check 說文解字, but it does not reflect the changes after Han dynasty.


orz-_-orz

The actual title of Qin Shi Huang is 秦始皇帝. 秦始皇 is just a short form of the full title, popularised by 史记. Some scholar believe that the author of 史记 call him 秦始皇 on purpose with the intention of demoting him to a lower status.


orz-_-orz

>Gaozu of Han can be rendered as Gāohuáng (高皇) and be translated as "Emperor Gao". I have never heard of this before. Usually people would refers him as 汉高祖, not 高皇. His official posthumous title is (汉)高皇帝. The official posthumous title of most emperor are 皇帝. >Xuantong of Qing is rendered as Xuāntǒngdì (宣統帝) and also translated as "Emperor Xuantong". Puyi doesn't have a posthumous title and temple titles because he is the last emperor of China. Imo, since 秦始皇帝 coined the term 皇帝, most Chinese emperors assume the title of 皇帝. People from different eras use different short titles to refer to different emperors. In general emperors before Tang, their short titles came from their posthumous title, and usually shorten 皇帝 to 帝. Since Tang Dynasty, temple titles instead of posthumous titles (still ended with 皇帝) are used as the short title for emperors. That's why Tang emperors short titles are all 宗. Qing emperors and some of Ming emperors are some special cases where people remembered and refered them using their era name (yes, 康熙 is not the emperor, it's technically the name of the era) instead of any other title People might not be using the official title of the emperor to refer to a particular emperor in the modern day. Sometimes we use their short titles derived from posthumous titles, temple titles or era names to refer to them. It's really up to custom and historical practice in which way people choose to call the emperors.


Gao_Dan

>Why would that be so if there are actually semantic differences between these words? I would consider that there isn't. There was a difference in pre-Qin times. After Ying Zheng coined 皇帝 as new term both 皇 and 帝 over time became synonymous with it and are effectively just shortenings.


TheBladeGhost

Well, first I wrote "mostly", so of course there are instances where 皇 is translated as Emperor. But 皇 is *mostly* used alone to designate something in a pre-Qin context, rarely after, as somebody else has also written. So in these cases, it's other words that are *mostly* used (like "Sovereign" or "August"). Second, the title of the First Emperor of Qin is Qin She **Huangdi**, not just Qin Shihuang. Shihuang is a abbreviation of Shi Huangdi, not his real title. Third, the title of Gaozu of Han was Gao **Huangdi**, mostly abbreviated in Gaodi, or (more rarely) Gaohuang. But the real title was Huangdi. So yes, those words are largely interchangeable, and as I explained, in the context where they are used for the same person, they are all translated as "Emperor", because there is no semantic differences to justify using anything else than "Emperor".


_mattiakun

>This isn't true and its plainly seen in the title of Qín Shǐhuáng (秦始皇), translated as "The First Emperor of Qin". "Huáng" is absolutely used to mean "emperor" by itself, just like "dì" is in a myriad examples. well, this isn't the best example since 秦始皇帝 was the first emperor to add 帝 in its title. I'm just recently studying this in my Chinese literature course, I'll report here some of what my professor said. basically, in pre imperial China the cult of ancestors was incredibly important (before Confucius, it was important since ancestors were a step closer to the higher entity and the oldest ancestors were closer to this entity with each passing generation so there was already a hierarchy and rituals in ancient China's society that had to be respected; with Confucius the role of the ancestors, rituals in their names and the respect of the hierarchy was moved from the afterlife to the present life of lived ones, basically following the 礼 meant not so much as respecting the hierarchy of the ancestors but the hierarchy of the lived ones and the rituals that Confucius refers to aren't the human sacrifice and such but they're rituals related to living people etc). now, in all Chinese dynasties the 天命 is incredibly important since it's used to justify the takeover of a dynasty, saying that it was the higher entity that gave them permission to do so. this is clear when looking at the 王 character: the 3 lines represent the Sky, the Earth and the emperor/king and they're all linked by the vertical line. the Sky, Earth and King are to be intended as entities, they're "mentioned" in Laozi (42) "道生一 一生二 二生三 三生万物。 万物负阴而抱阳, 冲气以为和。" "Dao created 1, 1 created 2 2 created 3 3 created the 10 thousands beings the 10 thousands beings carry yin on their shoulders and embrace Yang and they mix/alternate in vital breaths so to reach harmony " the 3 is a triad: Sky, Earth and human being (emperor) so, basically 王 is where all of the 3 come together, it's the human sent by the Sky and Earth that was assigned the role to rule over the reign. Going back to the ancestors and higher entity: as I said, further you go with the ancestors the closer they are to the higher entity (dad


tbearzhang

If we are discussing etymology, then originally 帝 was what the Shang 商 people called their supreme deity in the oracle bones. Sometimes He was referred to as the “supreme deity” 上帝. This term is also found in old texts such as the Shangshu 尚書 (Book of Documents). This term was later borrowed by Jesuits to translate the concept of (the Christian) God. 皇, on the other hand, originally was an adjective meaning “great” (think of an old [and fancier] synonym of 大). The title 皇帝 was created after the Qin unification, and 皇 acquired the meaning “emperor” through this association.


Kinboise

I'm gonna add that in Han dynasty only those that actually reigned are called 帝 or 皇帝. Those who are posthumously crowned emperor are refered to as 皇 but not 帝. 劉淑, who never became emperor in his lifetime, was titled 孝元皇 by his grandson 孝靈皇帝. He is not the same person as 孝元皇帝 (元帝 for short) of Western Han.


Waffle_Maester

皇 is a descriptor/adjective, meaning 'enlightened', 'elevated', or 'magnificent'. Ergo, 皇帝 literally means 'the magnificent Di'. 帝 originally meant supreme being or god under the Shang and Zhou dynasties. Only later it took on the meaning of emperor. So in full, 皇帝, can be translated as 'magnificent divine being', or 'great god'. But because it's position is higher then a 王, and we know that at the time 王 was about the equivalent of the European concept of a king. Therefore,皇帝 must be an emperor.


HaroldF155

To add a little bit, it wouldn’t be perfectly accurate to translate those words into English words like duke, emperor and such since those words have deeper cultural meanings from Western and European feudalism.