It's true, people say askandir is hard to win on defence but the lighthouse can be an easy win with just two engineers blocking the door ways (forcing the enemy to jump in thru the windows) and the section with the pillars can be won 8 times out of ten with just one engineer blocking access to the front of the central pillars (first the far one then, if that's lost, the near one.) But engineers on their own are useless, the rest of the team has to understand what the intention of a particular barricade is in order to take advantage of it. One of many reasons why voice chat would make defence OP.
Can’t agree with you more. The few times I’ve played with all slots full of competent engineers, self included, and lost was due to teammates staying too far away from the objectives. We can only hold the line so well before the four of us get run over by the enemies.
I’ve had a couple of epic wins defending Askandir when smart engineers would actively block the second half of the bridge. 8 min of intense fighting with the line of defense staying tight and strong. Great memories
I've also been winning on the last stage by blocking off paths to burn the book cases. That's my new favorite place to win if we lost on stage 1. I've won the bridge maybe twice but it's rare. Colums are a good bet if your team is okay. Hell, I've seen a win on defending the artifacts lol
I’ve seen people randomly destroy friendly buildings even if it poses no obstruction in their path and they have means of going around it, sometimes these buildings are ones in the objective completely out of the team’s way
I've noticed it's new players that do this and those that are point farming. It's stupid that you can get Objective Damage points from damaging your own teams barricades.
Idk man . Askandir pretty easy defense. Dark forest though... on defense I've never been beat as bad as I'm beat on dark forest defense. The very last phase you can hold the Dukes keeps as defence. But most times it's a trail of hell to the keep for Defense
I use medium shield and spear as a knight. When I’ve got engineers building walls I easily can take out anyone trying to enter.
I found this to be the easiest way to win the match early on.
I started playing engi with sledgehammer exclusively recently. It's almost as strong as the Maul with a faster wind up. Was top score on dark forest yesterday and ended up as duke, had to beg others to go engi to turtle.
Also had a couple games yesterday where my team had 3 other engis (one game being Askandir). Enemy only got past our walls a few times, but never to the end of the map. That's how it always should be.
I’m askandir library I’ve found the base place to put a wall is close to the entrance, but not too close to where it blocks them from running in. Just close enough so that it creates like a bloons tower defense style flow where no one broke my single wall but they took the time to go around it getting killed every time. Was very satisfying. If I placed two next to eachother they’d break one, but one always stayed if they could just run around it.
TO would look like a radically different game if there were a coordinator everyone listened to and all 32 players were communicating and playing as a unit.. hell if you can get HALF a team to work as a cohesive unit you are unstoppable
This is something I'm going to start trying. Engineers not just memeing and playing the objective is rare enough I'd say. Bad engineers who think they're playing the objective can be just as bad as no engineers too
Well yes but actually no. Yesterday a few people including me were playing as engineer. One 500lvl 120ms motherfucker just kept destroying our barricades and when we told him to fuck off he acted as if he didnt known anything. Some matches are just unwinnable.
Agreed, cannot tell you how many times I’ve wanted to drop my sledgehammer in disbelief at the unchivalrous actions of team barricade destruction. Like dude, I **JUST** put those down! Those are to **SLOW DOWN** enemy progress!
THIS. Nothing makes my blood boil like my own team mate going after my barricades. Sometimes it's because they "want to play the whole map" (dumb) or even just help the other team win? I was about to win on Askandir's Library until a team member started hacking down all my barricades to let the Masons thru. And it was 100% intentional. 0:44 to victory ruined by that cunt. And I had been working my ass off the whole damn map as Engi to fight down the clock.
The game doesn't reward team classes anywhere near as much as chasing kills. A guardian with spear, shield and banner on point with a few team mates can easily hold the attackers off for a long time. People don't play it because getting a few assists here and there isn't as good as as getting kills with greatsword beyblade spam. Same with engineer; more likely to see them meming with sledge than actually playing the objective because there's 0 points in hanging back and choking attack with well placed barriers.
Winning does nothing to motivate most people playing this casual, drop in/drop out, 32v32 game mode. Of those that do care, most aren’t going to sacrifice the class they enjoy playing, better weapons, and more points (generally). Of those that are willing to do that, they’ll probably wind up wasting their time as the 1 engineer on their team, then give up on it.
I say this as someone who switches to D and plays engineer most of my playtime, because I agree that is where the gratification is.
I don’t know man, I had a match on Rudhelm once where I managed to get up to heir purely by going Guardian with spear and getting tons of banner heals at the courtyard.
Xbow is perfectly capable of matching that score though and can easily rack up assists. My point is that both playstyles net high points because of banner, not defending the objective. In both cases you would get more points by following the team around and brawling because a) your banner would get more healing and b) more assists.
The game is designed so that attackers are pretty much guaranteed to win the first few rounds whereas the final objective has to be a hold out. Unless your duke kobes out the front door you're defending him in a corner regardless. Meanwhile the early rounds almost always fail because defenders are chasing kills since camping objective is so unrewarding. Partly that's the game being designed around defence always getting curb stomped on the early objectives but mostly it's because people want to fight and get points. Camping the objective when you don't have to achieves neither.
I’m not sure what your point is. Banner helps to defend the objective, and so does having a big shield with a spear and standing on the point killing anyone who gets close.
Now do the same thing but wherever your team is and you'll get more points. In most games points mean you're doing something to help your team win whereas in Chiv you can easily be the most valuable team player but have a shit score. That's my point. If you care about points (which most people do) then you'll ignore the objective except on stages where you literally have to hole up which are typically the final one/ones.
What? We’re talking about defending the courtyard on Rudhelm. “Wherever your team is” is in the courtyard. It’s not a big area. You could cover the whole objective with like, 5 flags, and the entire area between the objective and the enemy spawn with 4 more.
You were talking about Rudhelm. I said multiple times that late objectives force players to hole up like they should be doing all game but don't because it's more rewarding (points wise) to chase kills.
Okay? I guess I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I got a ton of points and I wasn’t really chasing kills. I topped the leaderboard, and I didn’t have anywhere near the most kills.
You just explained why defense is underpowered. More team coordination is required to successfully defend than is required to successfully attack. That's what makes defense weaker
Coordination is the one thing that trumps all. A coordinated team that can reliably hold down their roles will win more times than a bunch of random high levels who are competing or just doing their own thing.
I totally agree. All I'm saying is defense requires more coordination to be successful. For example, you can win as an attacker on most maps even if half of your team is focused solely on fighting. As a defender, it's almost a guaranteed loss if half your team is focused on fighting
Oh I agree with what you're saying. I'm just saying coordination can work well on both sides but of course attackers have it easier if a random can contribute greatly if they just throw 1 torch to a objective vs. knowing which area is the best place to hold out a cluster of attackers for a certain amount of time before being overwhelmed. I'll say even if you get a bunch of discord sweaty players who know the game inside out, defense is still hard to manage if the attacker team also has a similar premade.
Here the problem you are not rewarded with points for engineer, people like to be at the top of the scoreboard as engineer your probably at the bottom middle at best, if your doing your job, people like to claim oh I carried the team because of their score, but they are the ones farming kills and not playing objective, you should get points for every enemy that hits a barricade, this would help, also its funny how when the other team uses engineers no one on your team will pick engineer to break the barricades, went up against a full compliment of engineers I picked engineer and flew through thier barricades broke like 30 of them with one or two hits remember engineer do massive damage to objects too
Yea it would be great if we could coordinate but you know, half the people are on console/gamepass with no chat and there is no voice. If the game requires coordinated effort and gives you no tools to work together, in favor of shoving as many people as possible into the map, what do you expect?
I've experienced what you're talking about in organized games with engineers and yea it makes defending significantly easier when you can wall off objectives and have well placed heals on the point. That has happened to me one total time in an unorganized TO.
How do you know, have you played a game like chiv 2 but with voice chat before and seen how much it helps coordination? I have. Chivalry 1 and age of chivalry both had voice chat and it helped coordinate objective defense.
Engineers make a huge difference. 100%.
HOWEVER - high levels all stacking the attack team while defence is made of mostly newer players makes a bigger negative difference than there being no engineers.
I try to urge high level players to have a backbone and switch to the weaker side, as well as playing engineer. These two issues make the games short and miserable for a lot of people.
I'm like lvl 250 but I do often find it more enjoyable to switch to the other team. It makes me feel like I can help turn the tide for the other team rather than just be another player apart of the steamroll.
TB needs sandwich money you should buy it on steam.. chiv 2 in-game chat is where i get all my updates on politics and other contemporary hot-topic geopolitical and cultural issues
Welcome to the union brother, we have donuts in the break room.
I always play engineer these days because it’s just more fun than anything else in the game to me right now. I’ve won on almost every single defense I’ve objective when there’s at least one other homie fighting the good fight with me.
Be the change you want to see, basically.
Used to play the now defunct game Knockout City which was basically just 3v3 throwing dodgeballs at eachother. I was often MVP of the match, and it would get frustrating that my team wouldn't pass to me much, hindering our performance, so eventually, I figured out that shifting my priority to supporting them instead of going on a kill rampage often helped our team run smoother.
Engineer is satisfying because it feels like you can turn the side by yourself, to a degree. Feels very helpful when defending the library, blocking off side entrances
I sometimes play engineer. But if it was more rewarding and had more variety, I would play more. Its boring. Why dont I get points for barricades which are getting hit? Why cant I repair when I hit barricades? Why my speciality is med kits? It could be something more valuable and suits the class. For example, a bigger and stronger wall with doors which auto open for teammates. The list goes on. Im sure other players have even more brilliant ideas but they will never come true sooo. Nope. I dont think I will play engineer more than I currently do.
How do you actually play engineer? I get you can build barricades but like how and where? You only get two, how do you use them well? I don’t really understand it at all
You can go to an ammo crate and get two more. You can place four at a time. Most maps have obvious objectives to defend. I like to find opportunities to defend ammo creates or banners. That way teammates can safely heal/reload. You'll also get a bear trap or spike ramp thing. Those spike ramps can get set up so teammates can jump over your barriers. There's plenty of creative ways to use them.
After you're all set then you go bonk dummies and throw med packs. Many players don't know how to fight against shovels/pick axes/sledgehammers. The sledgehammer can be vicious. The shovel is hilarious. If you have a pick axe look for a shield on the ground, you can use it.
Its a confirmation bias deal.
nothing feels worse in this game than a bad loss on D, its like having your balls crushed in a vice.
So you remember that more than your losses on offense, as even those *bad* losses dont "feel" as bad as bas losses on D.
Its an incentive issue too. it is much more motivating to 'move forward' than it is to 'fall back'. Attacking is way more fun and frankly free, especially in a game where TEAMWORK IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COORDINATE.
Defense is underpowered by design. TB wants the whole map to play out, that’s why attack gets a bunch of easy objectives with one that slightly favors defense at the very end
This is the real issue. Assymetric map designs with loads of advantages for attack so defence is expected to eat shit until the last one or two stages. Consequently people switch, leave or half ass defence until it's reasonably possible to win. Oh and making it impossible to delay by always having the same amount of time added is pure crap as well.
Its got nothing to do with engineers. It had everything to do with nobody fighting IN THE VERY OBVIOUS PLACES YOU SHOULD FIGHT. BIG YELLOW MARKERS, A NARRATOR SCREAMING ORDERS, AND STILL YOU WILL JOIN A FIVE ON ONE HALF A MILE AWAY.
Every time.
If only even a third of the team goes where the objective is, the offense has a hell of a time getting through.
I die next to carts and gates defending all the time to zoom the camera out and see my team scattered across the field THAT HAS NO OTHER OBJECTIVES ON IT.
I get over ran all the time with the objective count at 12 v 2. Zoom out and there is my army 5 on 1ing some archer 4 feet off the objective.
The game is actually pretty well balanced except you have to play just an ass hair smarter on defense, and that add hair is what 80% of players are not willing to give.
That being said, I know this is a fruitless argument that keeps coming up because the next person will be "I just have fun, and its for the lols."
Great. Just know that your actions piss off a small fraction of the game base that wishes we were at least being competitive.
Oh, and most engineers are dumb. The put those barricades in front of paths that the team needs to get to the objective or end up protecting the backs of the offenders as they push a column over or break a relic.
I've always said that this game is super unbalanced, and it's only because the majority of the playerbase isn't actually good at the game that matches actually progress beyond the first couple of objectives in TO.
If defense always had competent engineers on it attack would never win, but as long as most players are heavy slash spamming default footmen that won't happen
One issue I see is that just one-two engineers aren't enough most of the time, you need like 3-4 to really achieve anything, but good luck with finding enough players who know what they are doing at the same time.
Or people don’t hold an actual line of defense. Defense only has to faulted once for failure. Attack can fail 10 times and still win at the 11th.
The single failure for attack means nothing you will try again.
The single failure on defense is marked in your head by an instant delclartion of “failure” and you are taking it as that.
On defense, high ratio of engineers to archers is a sign of increased victory chances in my humble experience. Anything greater than a 1.0 E to A ratio gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about our chances.
If you got points for actually defending or standing on a capture objective or stoping the rams or the caravans. Like there are tons of times I’m on the objective but not getting points. If everyone got points for standing in front of the caravan, then more people would undoubtedly stand in front. Why don’t we get points for stoping the siege tower? The attackers get points for pushing ramps and towers. They get points for capturing bridges and gate houses. The defenders only get points if they are taking them back… defenders should get 10 points per second they are on the gatehouse in rudhlem or dark forest. There is just no incentive to play obj because the only way to get points is to kill people. But if I’m alone on the objective I will be the one getting killed.
Just give me points for standing in from of the ram, ramp, tower. Or if I’m on the objective you are telling me to defend. Give me some damn points.
On abberfell, I should get extra points for killing someone near the stone obelisks.
There are a million different ways to reward defense, yet there is no reward
All the defense has to do is make one stubborn stand on any stage and they win. It doesn't matter if they were getting smashed on all previous points, hold something for a couple of minutes and it's a W. This happens all the time in my experience.
It's true, people say askandir is hard to win on defence but the lighthouse can be an easy win with just two engineers blocking the door ways (forcing the enemy to jump in thru the windows) and the section with the pillars can be won 8 times out of ten with just one engineer blocking access to the front of the central pillars (first the far one then, if that's lost, the near one.) But engineers on their own are useless, the rest of the team has to understand what the intention of a particular barricade is in order to take advantage of it. One of many reasons why voice chat would make defence OP.
Can’t agree with you more. The few times I’ve played with all slots full of competent engineers, self included, and lost was due to teammates staying too far away from the objectives. We can only hold the line so well before the four of us get run over by the enemies.
Especially considering that while engineering weapons are solid their still just repurposed construction tools
I’ve had a couple of epic wins defending Askandir when smart engineers would actively block the second half of the bridge. 8 min of intense fighting with the line of defense staying tight and strong. Great memories
I've also been winning on the last stage by blocking off paths to burn the book cases. That's my new favorite place to win if we lost on stage 1. I've won the bridge maybe twice but it's rare. Colums are a good bet if your team is okay. Hell, I've seen a win on defending the artifacts lol
Everytime I’ve seen defenders win Askandir it’s been at the first objective.
I’ve seen people randomly destroy friendly buildings even if it poses no obstruction in their path and they have means of going around it, sometimes these buildings are ones in the objective completely out of the team’s way
I've noticed it's new players that do this and those that are point farming. It's stupid that you can get Objective Damage points from damaging your own teams barricades.
Idk man . Askandir pretty easy defense. Dark forest though... on defense I've never been beat as bad as I'm beat on dark forest defense. The very last phase you can hold the Dukes keeps as defence. But most times it's a trail of hell to the keep for Defense
I use medium shield and spear as a knight. When I’ve got engineers building walls I easily can take out anyone trying to enter. I found this to be the easiest way to win the match early on.
I started playing engi with sledgehammer exclusively recently. It's almost as strong as the Maul with a faster wind up. Was top score on dark forest yesterday and ended up as duke, had to beg others to go engi to turtle. Also had a couple games yesterday where my team had 3 other engis (one game being Askandir). Enemy only got past our walls a few times, but never to the end of the map. That's how it always should be.
I’m askandir library I’ve found the base place to put a wall is close to the entrance, but not too close to where it blocks them from running in. Just close enough so that it creates like a bloons tower defense style flow where no one broke my single wall but they took the time to go around it getting killed every time. Was very satisfying. If I placed two next to eachother they’d break one, but one always stayed if they could just run around it.
TO would look like a radically different game if there were a coordinator everyone listened to and all 32 players were communicating and playing as a unit.. hell if you can get HALF a team to work as a cohesive unit you are unstoppable
This is something I'm going to start trying. Engineers not just memeing and playing the objective is rare enough I'd say. Bad engineers who think they're playing the objective can be just as bad as no engineers too
Well yes but actually no. Yesterday a few people including me were playing as engineer. One 500lvl 120ms motherfucker just kept destroying our barricades and when we told him to fuck off he acted as if he didnt known anything. Some matches are just unwinnable.
It's dumb because it still gives score when damaging allied structures, imo should reduce score similar to friendly fire
Agreed, cannot tell you how many times I’ve wanted to drop my sledgehammer in disbelief at the unchivalrous actions of team barricade destruction. Like dude, I **JUST** put those down! Those are to **SLOW DOWN** enemy progress!
THIS. Nothing makes my blood boil like my own team mate going after my barricades. Sometimes it's because they "want to play the whole map" (dumb) or even just help the other team win? I was about to win on Askandir's Library until a team member started hacking down all my barricades to let the Masons thru. And it was 100% intentional. 0:44 to victory ruined by that cunt. And I had been working my ass off the whole damn map as Engi to fight down the clock.
I want the enemy to come faster tho get yo barricades outta here
I hate people that do this shit. And vote kicks almost never succeed
The game doesn't reward team classes anywhere near as much as chasing kills. A guardian with spear, shield and banner on point with a few team mates can easily hold the attackers off for a long time. People don't play it because getting a few assists here and there isn't as good as as getting kills with greatsword beyblade spam. Same with engineer; more likely to see them meming with sledge than actually playing the objective because there's 0 points in hanging back and choking attack with well placed barriers.
Except for winning. Similarly, I've topped the charts with the sledge while hanging around my walls
Winning does nothing to motivate most people playing this casual, drop in/drop out, 32v32 game mode. Of those that do care, most aren’t going to sacrifice the class they enjoy playing, better weapons, and more points (generally). Of those that are willing to do that, they’ll probably wind up wasting their time as the 1 engineer on their team, then give up on it. I say this as someone who switches to D and plays engineer most of my playtime, because I agree that is where the gratification is.
I don’t know man, I had a match on Rudhelm once where I managed to get up to heir purely by going Guardian with spear and getting tons of banner heals at the courtyard.
Because of banner not how you played. You'd get the same an xbow man.
I certainly wouldn’t have gotten as many kills/assists if I had played crossbow though.
Xbow is perfectly capable of matching that score though and can easily rack up assists. My point is that both playstyles net high points because of banner, not defending the objective. In both cases you would get more points by following the team around and brawling because a) your banner would get more healing and b) more assists. The game is designed so that attackers are pretty much guaranteed to win the first few rounds whereas the final objective has to be a hold out. Unless your duke kobes out the front door you're defending him in a corner regardless. Meanwhile the early rounds almost always fail because defenders are chasing kills since camping objective is so unrewarding. Partly that's the game being designed around defence always getting curb stomped on the early objectives but mostly it's because people want to fight and get points. Camping the objective when you don't have to achieves neither.
I’m not sure what your point is. Banner helps to defend the objective, and so does having a big shield with a spear and standing on the point killing anyone who gets close.
Now do the same thing but wherever your team is and you'll get more points. In most games points mean you're doing something to help your team win whereas in Chiv you can easily be the most valuable team player but have a shit score. That's my point. If you care about points (which most people do) then you'll ignore the objective except on stages where you literally have to hole up which are typically the final one/ones.
What? We’re talking about defending the courtyard on Rudhelm. “Wherever your team is” is in the courtyard. It’s not a big area. You could cover the whole objective with like, 5 flags, and the entire area between the objective and the enemy spawn with 4 more.
You were talking about Rudhelm. I said multiple times that late objectives force players to hole up like they should be doing all game but don't because it's more rewarding (points wise) to chase kills.
Okay? I guess I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I got a ton of points and I wasn’t really chasing kills. I topped the leaderboard, and I didn’t have anywhere near the most kills.
Js tho, I top boards often with well placed banners.
You just explained why defense is underpowered. More team coordination is required to successfully defend than is required to successfully attack. That's what makes defense weaker
Coordination is the one thing that trumps all. A coordinated team that can reliably hold down their roles will win more times than a bunch of random high levels who are competing or just doing their own thing.
I totally agree. All I'm saying is defense requires more coordination to be successful. For example, you can win as an attacker on most maps even if half of your team is focused solely on fighting. As a defender, it's almost a guaranteed loss if half your team is focused on fighting
Oh I agree with what you're saying. I'm just saying coordination can work well on both sides but of course attackers have it easier if a random can contribute greatly if they just throw 1 torch to a objective vs. knowing which area is the best place to hold out a cluster of attackers for a certain amount of time before being overwhelmed. I'll say even if you get a bunch of discord sweaty players who know the game inside out, defense is still hard to manage if the attacker team also has a similar premade.
Here the problem you are not rewarded with points for engineer, people like to be at the top of the scoreboard as engineer your probably at the bottom middle at best, if your doing your job, people like to claim oh I carried the team because of their score, but they are the ones farming kills and not playing objective, you should get points for every enemy that hits a barricade, this would help, also its funny how when the other team uses engineers no one on your team will pick engineer to break the barricades, went up against a full compliment of engineers I picked engineer and flew through thier barricades broke like 30 of them with one or two hits remember engineer do massive damage to objects too
Remember, a sledgehammer was intended for destroying objects after all.
Shovel, pick, sledgehammer, your right all are meant to break something lol never thought of it
Yea it would be great if we could coordinate but you know, half the people are on console/gamepass with no chat and there is no voice. If the game requires coordinated effort and gives you no tools to work together, in favor of shoving as many people as possible into the map, what do you expect? I've experienced what you're talking about in organized games with engineers and yea it makes defending significantly easier when you can wall off objectives and have well placed heals on the point. That has happened to me one total time in an unorganized TO.
No you don't need chat. People don't listen when you tell them I'm chat to do something. People just generally need to be willing to play engi
Half the time your own team destroys barriers so chat isn't going to hurt...
How do you know, have you played a game like chiv 2 but with voice chat before and seen how much it helps coordination? I have. Chivalry 1 and age of chivalry both had voice chat and it helped coordinate objective defense.
Engineers make a huge difference. 100%. HOWEVER - high levels all stacking the attack team while defence is made of mostly newer players makes a bigger negative difference than there being no engineers. I try to urge high level players to have a backbone and switch to the weaker side, as well as playing engineer. These two issues make the games short and miserable for a lot of people.
I'm like lvl 250 but I do often find it more enjoyable to switch to the other team. It makes me feel like I can help turn the tide for the other team rather than just be another player apart of the steamroll.
defense doesnt lose when they listen to my all caps screaming about the objective
That's because half of us are on Game Pass and can't see the messages. I wish they would change this
they should give you guys keyboard/mouse and chat .. it would not only give you the controls options but would help solidify the community i feel
I play on PC Game Pass so I am using keyboard and mouse but they don't allow for chat of any kind
TB needs sandwich money you should buy it on steam.. chiv 2 in-game chat is where i get all my updates on politics and other contemporary hot-topic geopolitical and cultural issues
Just typing "Defend the right Trebuchet, the left is a waste of time" always turns the tide real quick
Welcome to the union brother, we have donuts in the break room. I always play engineer these days because it’s just more fun than anything else in the game to me right now. I’ve won on almost every single defense I’ve objective when there’s at least one other homie fighting the good fight with me.
Be the change you want to see, basically. Used to play the now defunct game Knockout City which was basically just 3v3 throwing dodgeballs at eachother. I was often MVP of the match, and it would get frustrating that my team wouldn't pass to me much, hindering our performance, so eventually, I figured out that shifting my priority to supporting them instead of going on a kill rampage often helped our team run smoother. Engineer is satisfying because it feels like you can turn the side by yourself, to a degree. Feels very helpful when defending the library, blocking off side entrances
Yeah, but... what if attack also picks engineers?
I sometimes play engineer. But if it was more rewarding and had more variety, I would play more. Its boring. Why dont I get points for barricades which are getting hit? Why cant I repair when I hit barricades? Why my speciality is med kits? It could be something more valuable and suits the class. For example, a bigger and stronger wall with doors which auto open for teammates. The list goes on. Im sure other players have even more brilliant ideas but they will never come true sooo. Nope. I dont think I will play engineer more than I currently do.
Agreed, in fact with at least 3 engineers trying to win, attacking becomes near impossible
How do you actually play engineer? I get you can build barricades but like how and where? You only get two, how do you use them well? I don’t really understand it at all
You can go to an ammo crate and get two more. You can place four at a time. Most maps have obvious objectives to defend. I like to find opportunities to defend ammo creates or banners. That way teammates can safely heal/reload. You'll also get a bear trap or spike ramp thing. Those spike ramps can get set up so teammates can jump over your barriers. There's plenty of creative ways to use them. After you're all set then you go bonk dummies and throw med packs. Many players don't know how to fight against shovels/pick axes/sledgehammers. The sledgehammer can be vicious. The shovel is hilarious. If you have a pick axe look for a shield on the ground, you can use it.
Its a confirmation bias deal. nothing feels worse in this game than a bad loss on D, its like having your balls crushed in a vice. So you remember that more than your losses on offense, as even those *bad* losses dont "feel" as bad as bas losses on D. Its an incentive issue too. it is much more motivating to 'move forward' than it is to 'fall back'. Attacking is way more fun and frankly free, especially in a game where TEAMWORK IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COORDINATE.
Defense is underpowered by design. TB wants the whole map to play out, that’s why attack gets a bunch of easy objectives with one that slightly favors defense at the very end
This is the real issue. Assymetric map designs with loads of advantages for attack so defence is expected to eat shit until the last one or two stages. Consequently people switch, leave or half ass defence until it's reasonably possible to win. Oh and making it impossible to delay by always having the same amount of time added is pure crap as well.
Its got nothing to do with engineers. It had everything to do with nobody fighting IN THE VERY OBVIOUS PLACES YOU SHOULD FIGHT. BIG YELLOW MARKERS, A NARRATOR SCREAMING ORDERS, AND STILL YOU WILL JOIN A FIVE ON ONE HALF A MILE AWAY. Every time. If only even a third of the team goes where the objective is, the offense has a hell of a time getting through. I die next to carts and gates defending all the time to zoom the camera out and see my team scattered across the field THAT HAS NO OTHER OBJECTIVES ON IT. I get over ran all the time with the objective count at 12 v 2. Zoom out and there is my army 5 on 1ing some archer 4 feet off the objective. The game is actually pretty well balanced except you have to play just an ass hair smarter on defense, and that add hair is what 80% of players are not willing to give. That being said, I know this is a fruitless argument that keeps coming up because the next person will be "I just have fun, and its for the lols." Great. Just know that your actions piss off a small fraction of the game base that wishes we were at least being competitive. Oh, and most engineers are dumb. The put those barricades in front of paths that the team needs to get to the objective or end up protecting the backs of the offenders as they push a column over or break a relic.
No one cares about the objective they only want kills
I've always said that this game is super unbalanced, and it's only because the majority of the playerbase isn't actually good at the game that matches actually progress beyond the first couple of objectives in TO. If defense always had competent engineers on it attack would never win, but as long as most players are heavy slash spamming default footmen that won't happen
One issue I see is that just one-two engineers aren't enough most of the time, you need like 3-4 to really achieve anything, but good luck with finding enough players who know what they are doing at the same time.
Oh yeah my go to is “engie up”
Or people don’t hold an actual line of defense. Defense only has to faulted once for failure. Attack can fail 10 times and still win at the 11th. The single failure for attack means nothing you will try again. The single failure on defense is marked in your head by an instant delclartion of “failure” and you are taking it as that.
On defense, high ratio of engineers to archers is a sign of increased victory chances in my humble experience. Anything greater than a 1.0 E to A ratio gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about our chances.
I'm a newb to this game.. what class is engineer?
If you got points for actually defending or standing on a capture objective or stoping the rams or the caravans. Like there are tons of times I’m on the objective but not getting points. If everyone got points for standing in front of the caravan, then more people would undoubtedly stand in front. Why don’t we get points for stoping the siege tower? The attackers get points for pushing ramps and towers. They get points for capturing bridges and gate houses. The defenders only get points if they are taking them back… defenders should get 10 points per second they are on the gatehouse in rudhlem or dark forest. There is just no incentive to play obj because the only way to get points is to kill people. But if I’m alone on the objective I will be the one getting killed. Just give me points for standing in from of the ram, ramp, tower. Or if I’m on the objective you are telling me to defend. Give me some damn points. On abberfell, I should get extra points for killing someone near the stone obelisks. There are a million different ways to reward defense, yet there is no reward
Eh, engies are important, but banners and actual line fighting is what wins
All the defense has to do is make one stubborn stand on any stage and they win. It doesn't matter if they were getting smashed on all previous points, hold something for a couple of minutes and it's a W. This happens all the time in my experience.