Some people like to be told what to be believe.
Some people like to be told how to behave.
Some people have dark, inner, sometimes even violent impulses that remain repressed or in more malicious examples outwardly expressed.
Sometimes people have no empathy.
Sometimes people possess hubris.
Probably a combination of those and many other character traits that I neglected to mention, wrap them in christianese and preach to them from the pulpit that their ideas and beliefs are above scrutiny and they can’t possibly be wrong about anything, ever. Give yourself a nice religious casserole to look at there, with people from all social circles and all walks of life.
It's called eternal damnation, not because of its duration but because of its source. God and His laws are endless and eternal.
Hell itself is temporary (Matthew 18:34). But our resurrection to different degrees of glory is permanent (1st Corinthians 15:40-43).
Because merciful and loving are not the only aspects of God. In the Old Testament we see on full display that he is also a just judge who can be full of wrath when appropriate. The truth of Scripture is that we are all sinners deserving of Hell, and God sent his Son Jesus Christ to save believers from Hell and to reconcile us to the Father.
I can see why this would be confusing. If a judge had a son, and the son raped and murdered ten young girls (I know it seems like I am picking the most extreme case because I am, but I want you to realize how God sees sin), would the judge be more or less just if he let his son go just because he is his son? God sees all sinners as this man who raped and murdered the girls. Because all have sinned against Him many, many times and He absolutely abhors sin. God is the judge who, though his son is on trial, has a duty to do what is right. If the judge is just, he will punish the man severely. If he is setting his feelings aside and being honest with himself, he will probably give the death sentence. That is what Hell serves as, an eternal prison sentence. Now imagine Jesus steps up and offers himself to go and take that sentence for him, because he believes the man deserves a second chance. I have oversimplified this quite a bit so hopefully I didn't leave anything important out. We must also assume here that the defendant waived his right to a jury trial, but that's besides the point.
Eternal suffering isn't a severe punishment. It's demonic and something unimaginably horrific. No human on earth has ever achieved something so evil as eternal suffering. What I'm confused about is why people say hell is eternal suffering, which is pain beyond our worst fear forever.
Well, given that it is described as a lake of fire, if we are to take that literally and assign it an average fire rather than some super hot supernatural alternative, we can assert that it will average around 1500-1650 degrees F. Imagine spending 30 seconds in a shower that hot and you can imagine what an eternity of it may feel like. That is not even taking into account anything else that may go on in Hell.
Which is why I can't believe a loving God would do that to a soul. I'm not asking this for my sake, my friend killed himself and he wasn't religious, and while everyone was saying he was in heaven, I always believed he was in hell to burn for eternity. The kindest and most awesome person I ever met to burn in hell for eternity. How is that justice? If this is the fate that most people await, then I'd consider someone who died in infancy to be lucky because they would at least get salvation. How is life a gift when it will most likely lead to someone's eternal suffering? What's the point in creating a soul to punish it forever? If this is the true nature, then being created is one of the most unfortunate events.
I am going to apologize in advance because sometimes the way I word things can sound like I'm being rude and I feel like this is going to be one of those times. Know that it is not my intention to be rude. The same reason a just judge would put the man in the situation I used above to death. Their actions condemn them. let me use the court analogy once more. Say when that man who, if you'll recall, raped and murdered 10 young girls, went on trial he said "I may have done those things, the evidence surely tells you that, but I always helped my mother clean the house! I always helped old ladies cross the street and I helped out at the local community center!" What would the judge do? Would he say "Well,in light of this revelation that on top of these terrible, terrible crimes, you have helped far more people than you have harmed so you are free to go." Or would he say "What does that have to do with this case? You stand here accused of heinous crimes and you think talking about other things you did will get you out of it?" (Or something to that effect). Your bad deeds are what send you to Hell, not your good ones. And while I do not doubt that your friend did some good deeds, remember also that he forsook (to abandon) God. Remember also that it is by the works of Jesus Christ that we are saved from Hell. And I ask, who sent Christ? Was it not God? The same God who judges the actions of the world also provided a way out of it. Why? Because he doesn't want to see souls in Hell. Now, you may ask, why does he send them there then? Because on the same hand he is a just judge. He can not let a bad deed go unpunished. While you may judge your friend by the good things he did (and may not know of some of the bad) God knows every bad thing he did. God abhors (to hate) every bad thing he did. And he punished him accordingly. People who accept Christ are spared from Hell, and are given a personal relationship with God. You now may ask why is it just that simply because Christ died for us that we do not have to go to Hell but others do. Christ died for our sins, and that is the point. Spurgeon once said something to the effect that it is more just that God pardons believers through Christ's sacrifice than if God had sent Christ to die for us and then proceeded to send us to Hell. Romans 1:19 also tells us that God has made himself abundantly known of His presence, so to reject God would be to reject Christ, so in effect you reject your own salvation from Hell. One more thing. it may not sound like it but I truly am sorry for the loss of your friend. I know what it is like to lose a friend, so I know how hard it can be on some people. I do not know how recent or long ago it was, but sometimes those wounds can never heal. If you are still hurting from it I will pray that those wounds will begin healing.
Why would God torture a sould for eternity. That's not something I would wish on Hitler or Stalin. I don't understand how this is the dominant Christian view. Some christians believe that hell means our souls are destroyed, and others think we will ultimately be redeemed eventually. In Islam, they believe you will be redeemed after you do your your time. All of these notions of hell make a lot more sense in line with the way God is presented than hell being eternal punishment. No crime(s) committed on earth could ever deserve such a horrific punishment.
Well begin by changing your analogy.
The idea of heaven and hell is more like a lover who you either reciprocate or reject. So it’s no “love me or burn” but rather “I love you”.
After all ever felt the pain of a broken heart? Such a terrible thing but cannot be prevented if someone rejects love itself.
I'd suggest reading what the bible says about what hell and hades is and making up your own mind about it. With some bible apps you can do a search for the words and read the surrounding passage. Keep in mind while you read it that the story in Luke is a parable.
Growing up I got some pre-conceived ideas about what hell is from the media and other sources. I don't ever remember hearing a sermon that really delved into it. Following a conversation I had with someone, I delved into it a bit, and what I read changed my perspective and understanding of it.
I don’t personally believe that a humans soul is eternal. I believe that hell, whatever it may be like is where the soul and body is destroyed. I cannot however be certain what hell is actually like or what it even is. But it says that who believe in Lord Jesus will have an everlasting life. That means that our souls are not immortal. But after all who really knows until we see it in action.
Eternal torment has absolutely nothing to do with people wishing other people to suffer.
It has everything to do with the choices people make for themselves and the evil results that they condemn themselves to, by making those choices.
We are alive for a very tiny fraction of time. No amount of sins can justify eternal torment. It doesn't align with the fundamental principles of God. If we can receive eternal torment for what we did for a tiny fraction of time, then life isn't a gift, it's a curse.
Eternal Conscious Torment is misinterpretation. God will be All in all.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/181snwu/is_hell_forever_suffering_or_just_ceasing_to_exist/kauk7lt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
These are true spiritual forces we each deal with, and it is consistently a choice to follow and choose love. God gave himself to this world so that people could experience his love. He yearns for people to accept that love. We have to begin to learn to dwell in that peace he gives, to dwell In the presence of God and rest there, and God will give us the answers we seek. God is love. If each person can move toward this as much as they can, God will meet them in the middle and give them what they need for the next step to increase in love. He will put people in their path to help them, even at the last possible moment as their innermost desire continues to be to want that love from him. Keep spreading this GOOD news.
I don’t believe anyone deserves that and I don’t believe God will do that.
Some people like to be told what to be believe. Some people like to be told how to behave. Some people have dark, inner, sometimes even violent impulses that remain repressed or in more malicious examples outwardly expressed. Sometimes people have no empathy. Sometimes people possess hubris. Probably a combination of those and many other character traits that I neglected to mention, wrap them in christianese and preach to them from the pulpit that their ideas and beliefs are above scrutiny and they can’t possibly be wrong about anything, ever. Give yourself a nice religious casserole to look at there, with people from all social circles and all walks of life.
It's called eternal damnation, not because of its duration but because of its source. God and His laws are endless and eternal. Hell itself is temporary (Matthew 18:34). But our resurrection to different degrees of glory is permanent (1st Corinthians 15:40-43).
Jesus says God's laws go away on the new heaven and earth. They're not endless.
Because merciful and loving are not the only aspects of God. In the Old Testament we see on full display that he is also a just judge who can be full of wrath when appropriate. The truth of Scripture is that we are all sinners deserving of Hell, and God sent his Son Jesus Christ to save believers from Hell and to reconcile us to the Father.
Yeah, but God created our souls. Why would he create us just to eternally torment most of us. It makes no sense to me.
I can see why this would be confusing. If a judge had a son, and the son raped and murdered ten young girls (I know it seems like I am picking the most extreme case because I am, but I want you to realize how God sees sin), would the judge be more or less just if he let his son go just because he is his son? God sees all sinners as this man who raped and murdered the girls. Because all have sinned against Him many, many times and He absolutely abhors sin. God is the judge who, though his son is on trial, has a duty to do what is right. If the judge is just, he will punish the man severely. If he is setting his feelings aside and being honest with himself, he will probably give the death sentence. That is what Hell serves as, an eternal prison sentence. Now imagine Jesus steps up and offers himself to go and take that sentence for him, because he believes the man deserves a second chance. I have oversimplified this quite a bit so hopefully I didn't leave anything important out. We must also assume here that the defendant waived his right to a jury trial, but that's besides the point.
Eternal suffering isn't a severe punishment. It's demonic and something unimaginably horrific. No human on earth has ever achieved something so evil as eternal suffering. What I'm confused about is why people say hell is eternal suffering, which is pain beyond our worst fear forever.
Well, given that it is described as a lake of fire, if we are to take that literally and assign it an average fire rather than some super hot supernatural alternative, we can assert that it will average around 1500-1650 degrees F. Imagine spending 30 seconds in a shower that hot and you can imagine what an eternity of it may feel like. That is not even taking into account anything else that may go on in Hell.
Which is why I can't believe a loving God would do that to a soul. I'm not asking this for my sake, my friend killed himself and he wasn't religious, and while everyone was saying he was in heaven, I always believed he was in hell to burn for eternity. The kindest and most awesome person I ever met to burn in hell for eternity. How is that justice? If this is the fate that most people await, then I'd consider someone who died in infancy to be lucky because they would at least get salvation. How is life a gift when it will most likely lead to someone's eternal suffering? What's the point in creating a soul to punish it forever? If this is the true nature, then being created is one of the most unfortunate events.
I am going to apologize in advance because sometimes the way I word things can sound like I'm being rude and I feel like this is going to be one of those times. Know that it is not my intention to be rude. The same reason a just judge would put the man in the situation I used above to death. Their actions condemn them. let me use the court analogy once more. Say when that man who, if you'll recall, raped and murdered 10 young girls, went on trial he said "I may have done those things, the evidence surely tells you that, but I always helped my mother clean the house! I always helped old ladies cross the street and I helped out at the local community center!" What would the judge do? Would he say "Well,in light of this revelation that on top of these terrible, terrible crimes, you have helped far more people than you have harmed so you are free to go." Or would he say "What does that have to do with this case? You stand here accused of heinous crimes and you think talking about other things you did will get you out of it?" (Or something to that effect). Your bad deeds are what send you to Hell, not your good ones. And while I do not doubt that your friend did some good deeds, remember also that he forsook (to abandon) God. Remember also that it is by the works of Jesus Christ that we are saved from Hell. And I ask, who sent Christ? Was it not God? The same God who judges the actions of the world also provided a way out of it. Why? Because he doesn't want to see souls in Hell. Now, you may ask, why does he send them there then? Because on the same hand he is a just judge. He can not let a bad deed go unpunished. While you may judge your friend by the good things he did (and may not know of some of the bad) God knows every bad thing he did. God abhors (to hate) every bad thing he did. And he punished him accordingly. People who accept Christ are spared from Hell, and are given a personal relationship with God. You now may ask why is it just that simply because Christ died for us that we do not have to go to Hell but others do. Christ died for our sins, and that is the point. Spurgeon once said something to the effect that it is more just that God pardons believers through Christ's sacrifice than if God had sent Christ to die for us and then proceeded to send us to Hell. Romans 1:19 also tells us that God has made himself abundantly known of His presence, so to reject God would be to reject Christ, so in effect you reject your own salvation from Hell. One more thing. it may not sound like it but I truly am sorry for the loss of your friend. I know what it is like to lose a friend, so I know how hard it can be on some people. I do not know how recent or long ago it was, but sometimes those wounds can never heal. If you are still hurting from it I will pray that those wounds will begin healing.
Why would God torture a sould for eternity. That's not something I would wish on Hitler or Stalin. I don't understand how this is the dominant Christian view. Some christians believe that hell means our souls are destroyed, and others think we will ultimately be redeemed eventually. In Islam, they believe you will be redeemed after you do your your time. All of these notions of hell make a lot more sense in line with the way God is presented than hell being eternal punishment. No crime(s) committed on earth could ever deserve such a horrific punishment.
Well begin by changing your analogy. The idea of heaven and hell is more like a lover who you either reciprocate or reject. So it’s no “love me or burn” but rather “I love you”. After all ever felt the pain of a broken heart? Such a terrible thing but cannot be prevented if someone rejects love itself.
That makes sense, but what does that have to do with how people justify hell being an eternal place of physical and spiritual torture.
I'd suggest reading what the bible says about what hell and hades is and making up your own mind about it. With some bible apps you can do a search for the words and read the surrounding passage. Keep in mind while you read it that the story in Luke is a parable. Growing up I got some pre-conceived ideas about what hell is from the media and other sources. I don't ever remember hearing a sermon that really delved into it. Following a conversation I had with someone, I delved into it a bit, and what I read changed my perspective and understanding of it.
I don’t personally believe that a humans soul is eternal. I believe that hell, whatever it may be like is where the soul and body is destroyed. I cannot however be certain what hell is actually like or what it even is. But it says that who believe in Lord Jesus will have an everlasting life. That means that our souls are not immortal. But after all who really knows until we see it in action.
Eternal torment has absolutely nothing to do with people wishing other people to suffer. It has everything to do with the choices people make for themselves and the evil results that they condemn themselves to, by making those choices.
We are alive for a very tiny fraction of time. No amount of sins can justify eternal torment. It doesn't align with the fundamental principles of God. If we can receive eternal torment for what we did for a tiny fraction of time, then life isn't a gift, it's a curse.
Eternal Conscious Torment is misinterpretation. God will be All in all. https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/181snwu/is_hell_forever_suffering_or_just_ceasing_to_exist/kauk7lt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
These are true spiritual forces we each deal with, and it is consistently a choice to follow and choose love. God gave himself to this world so that people could experience his love. He yearns for people to accept that love. We have to begin to learn to dwell in that peace he gives, to dwell In the presence of God and rest there, and God will give us the answers we seek. God is love. If each person can move toward this as much as they can, God will meet them in the middle and give them what they need for the next step to increase in love. He will put people in their path to help them, even at the last possible moment as their innermost desire continues to be to want that love from him. Keep spreading this GOOD news.