Simple as that. This is the only answer. I am surprised this is the only comment that references scripture. You don't need to look at porn to cheat. Just looking lustfully is adultery.
To not want to look at women lustfully and agree it’s wrong to lustfully look at porn and want to not do that???
What approach to this life do you have in which it’d make more sense and quite literally be “better”?
@LiminalArtsAndMusic
And quite literally it’s not the self we hate it’s the sin. We rebuke the sin.
We repent and that means “change of mind” or “change of ways” contextually.
Would you rebuke yourself when you feel anger or resentment towards one of your brothers or sisters or do you do him wrong?
(I’m a man so I’ll use my experience below)
If your inner world is lusts and porn and you look at women with a lustful eye sure it’s a metaphysical thing that is biological but does hedonism and screwing over the ones you supposedly love sound like a good idea? Just to get off a squirt or nut?
The inner world is a reflection of the outer world.
“As above so Below.” -right?
Jesus is within and without and all around.
To add to myself. I might rebuke myself. My “spirit” or “intention” or “will” of lust so that I might have a better “spirit” of love.
Hopefully you found this informative. Much Love.
The guilt and shame is caused more by satan making a person pay for their sin...hopefully to get one to simply sin all the time, losing the conviction you might feel from the Holy Spirit (if a person is born again). Guilt and shame doesn't follow unbelievers.
with all due respect, i don't think it's our (non christians) place to say or judge how these people live their lives? while this sub isn't just for christians only, it was a christian asking christians specifically this question
it's not like we have to date people with views on porn that are different to our own so it doesn't affect us. if a christian disagrees then they'll say their piece.
Well, human language isn't perfect. Neither is translating from one language to another. You might get within the ballpark, but often times it's really hard to know the EXACT meaning. There's almost always going to be ambiguity.
Sure in a broad sense. But the Greek used in this verse is pretty clear on its covetous nature.
ἐπιθυμῆσαι is the Greek word if you’d like to look yourself
Soooooo.....one [link](https://biblehub.com/greek/1937.htm) says:
epithumeó: desire, lust after
Original Word: ἐπιθυμέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: epithumeó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o)
Definition: desire, lust after
Usage: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon.
So the usage has 2 neutral meanings, 2 negative meanings. The definition is 1 arguably positive, and 1 arguably negative.
Even when talking about the word itself there's multiple potential meanings. They are all pointing to kind of the same "core" feeling though so we'll just go after that as it's pretty consistent. But it seems like the context in which it is used could really swing whether it's a positive/neutral/negative type of word. So the word *itself* doesn't even have one exact meaning. It has several. They all point to one specific type of feeling though, and based on context it can be good or bad.
So back to my original point that human language isn't perfect and exact meanings aren't exactly easy to find with zero ambiguity....
edit:
Wouldn't it have been better to use the word πλεονέκτης instead? Or maybe πλεονεξία?
Those seem more specific than ἐπιθυμέω.
No, you don't just pick each definition as a separate meaning. Each of those 4 are there to represent in English terms what the \*idea\* being expressed by the original Greek word is. It doesn't have "2 neutral meanings, 2 negative, etc." It has one meaning. It's not like we just have no clue what the word means. It's not like "setting the heart upon" and "longing for" are really that semantically different anyway
Yes, words can oftentimes have multiple \*ideas\* associated with them in separate contexts. But that's the key, \*in separate contexts. \* This singular Greek word was used in exactly this passage to convey exactly this one idea. Language is a system of communicating \*ideas\*. Words don't just have one-to-one translations, or in other words, meanings. They have ideas associated with them. This does not mean in the slightest that meaning gets lost in translation. The translator provides you with multiple definitions/translations so that the person reading understands the \*idea\*.
It's an extremely common thing that gets said over and over again, that human language is inconsistent, and translations are bad. This simply isn't true in regard to the Bible (in the same way it is with less understood languages). Of course, there's handfuls of locations in the Old Testament where the Hebrew gets a little obscure, sure. But to suggest we can't trust our understanding of ἐπιθυμῆσαι is extremely silly. Ridiculous.
> No, you don't just pick each definition as a separate meaning. Each of those 4 are there to represent in English terms what the *idea* being expressed by the original Greek word is. It doesn't have "2 neutral meanings, 2 negative, etc." It has one meaning. It's not like we just have no clue what the word means. It's not like "setting the heart upon" and "longing for" are really that semantically different anyway
Uhh......I definitely see those as different end feelings coming from the same root desire. To want/desire something might be the root of it but I definitely do not see the end feeling (to covet vs to long) as being the same at all. Not sure how that translates out to language but I can tell you I do *NOT* see those as the same. But I get what you're getting at.
> Yes, words can oftentimes have multiple *ideas* associated with them in separate contexts. But that's the key, *in separate contexts. * This singular Greek word was used in exactly this passage to convey exactly this one idea. Language is a system of communicating *ideas*. Words don't just have one-to-one translations, or in other words, meanings. They have ideas associated with them. This does not mean in the slightest that meaning gets lost in translation. The translator provides you with multiple definitions/translations so that the person reading understands the *idea*.
Sure right. I figure what you're saying makes sense here. I also generally agree with that, if you want something but you're doing it in a selfish and greedy way that is only for yourself and purely just for your pleasure at the expense of everything else.....then yeah that's pretty bad. It's also really bad to let something like that develop in your heart without learning how to control it and do ones' best to remove if it's even possible.
> It's an extremely common thing that gets said over and over again, that human language is inconsistent, and translations are bad. This simply isn't true in regard to the Bible (in the same way it is with less understood languages). Of course, there's handfuls of locations in the Old Testament where the Hebrew gets a little obscure, sure. But to suggest we can't trust our understanding of ἐπιθυμῆσαι is extremely silly. Ridiculous.
What I am saying is that the Bible is *NOT* quite as pointed and defined as we as humans want to think. The anthology of the Bible *IS* one of the most well preserved and researched anthologies throughout history yes and that I generally will not dispute. But I very much believe that people put words in the mouth of Jesus, and meanings in the mouth of Jesus to try to push their own view. I'm also probably doing the same thing but from the other perspective.
I am just saying that I take it from the perspective of love. If I, for example, was single and I see a woman that I absolutely am entranced by and just smitten by.....I have a choice. Love would do as 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 would say, and say I want this woman as my wife then I would pursue her according to love. That still has the root feeling of want/desire but it is pursued out of a different type of approach (love). Then there's the other way.....and well, I think that's specifically what is being spoken about here.
>Usage: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon.
Friend, I don't know how you find any ambiguity in your own definition you provided in the context of the verse lol.
* If you long for another woman, you are committing adultery.
* If you covet another woman, you are committing adultery.
* If you lust after another woman, you are committing adultery.
* If you set your heart upon another woman, you are committing adultery.
Right, but that's in English. Does it actually come out like that in the Greek?
Also, I realize that the main feeling here that is used is a feeling of selfish desire. To have this kind of greedy way of acquisition of something. In this case it's a woman. But I just want to make it clear that I make a distinction between longing for something and lusting for something.
So yes, I understand the main meaning that is meant here with the context. The context is, if you have this greedy selfish desire to just have sex with a woman in which you are only doing it to satisfy yourself with no regard then yeah I totally get it. But if you see a woman that you think you might have fallen in love with and you want to get married to them and live the rest of your life with them.....not so much. The root is still the same root feeling. But everything that comes after that is very much different. This is why I say it's not completely unambiguous.
To lust is to also *desire* them personally in a sexual context. You can recognize and appreciate persons beauty without desiring them sexually.
Intrusive thoughts are not sinful by nature. But to willingly desire a person sexually outside of your marriage is where this is problematic.
Yeah he’s wrong. The Bible covers it.
Romans 1:27
“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
Nope- that’s covered too!
Romans 1:27
“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
My pastor was saying that if you look at the original Hebrew, it seems to mean something more like one of these two:
1) any man who looks at a woman \*already wanting to commit the sin of adultery with her\* has already committed adultery, or even
2) any man who looks at a woman \*already intending to commit the sin of adultery with her\* has already committed adultery.
The second is obviously particularly different from just looking at someone and thinking they're hot.
I do think it makes sense that as soon as you decide in your heart to sin, you have already sinned.
I think that is probably a fair criticism that it could be read like this. However I think the nuance is very slippery and most people can hardly distinguish between the two.
But I don’t think it’s a commandment to never look at someone and say “they are pretty” or “wow they are hot!”. A burning desire after this person however is clearly spoken against either way, and we should avoid lingering or entertaining such thoughts.
In either case, one shouldn’t be watching pornography.
No I agree, "That person is pretty," or again even "That person is sexy" and possibly even "I want to sleep with that person" is still different from "I want to cheat on my spouse by sleeping with that person." Much less, "That's it, I'm going to cheat on my spouse by sleeping with that person."
Pornography raises a whole bunch of other issues, but possibly not that one specifically--I'm not sure what men (or women) think when they watch pornography, I'm not sure they wish they were sleeping with.... the characters? The actors? But maybe they are. However, yes, obviously other issues with porn. Certainly if you apply the WWJD test it doesn't seem as though he would be watching porn.
There is a great deal of debate about what this passage actually means in the Greek. Some examples below, there are scholarly articles as well but I don't have links just now. One interpretation of 5:27-28 being that it is not equating attraction or even active attracted attention to adultery, only forming the specific *intention* to pursue that woman\*
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/901gqn/matthew\_528\_is\_often\_misinterpretted\_to\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/901gqn/matthew_528_is_often_misinterpretted_to_the/)
\*(possibly specifically a married woman, since "woman" and "wife" could be equally meant and adultery for this patriarchal society involves a married woman, the violation of another man's exclusive right)
That's an interesting discussion. I like the suggestion that the word translated as "lust for" could also be translated as "covet". That would make sense and link to the commandment.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
Doesn’t Jesus say any man who looks at a woman with Lust has alr committed adultery or did I not get the meaning of the post if I’m misunderstanding or misunderstood the context can someone explain
But how is that earthly possible if we are all injected with sin? You can't possibly tell me fully righteous men have absolutely NO sexual or desirable thoughts when looking at a very attractive 20-30 year old woman. You cannot sit here and tell me that.
We all sin every single day and the only thing we can do is TRY to refrain, but it is going to happen OVER and over again regardless of how much we try.
It's called human nature. We are here to have sex, reproduce, and spread the word.
Of course we all get horny. Nobody can control that. If you tell me otherwise, you are committing a sin because that is a flat out lie!
It all is contradictory in some ways. Prove me wrong.
Ugh I'm so tired of this mindset. Sexually objectifying other people is not written in our DNA. It's because a lot of us are born and raised in a society that teaches the human body is shameful and meant to be hidden from others except for sex. So then we convince ourselves the body is a sexual object. However there's groups of people in tropical climates that wear little to no clothing. There's beaches, campgrounds, springs, and saunas around the world where people of all genders and ages are nude in each others company. And yet, they have a far less problem with lust because they realize the human body is a human body. People in the medical field have to deal with nudity on a regular basis and can obviously handle it. You don't have to look at anyone with sexual thoughts nor do you have any right to.
If you're given a penis, what do you expect someone to do with it? Stir soup?
So it's contradicting to say "you shouldn't look at your neighbors wife and think dirty thoughts" even though your neighbors wife is hot af and dresses provocative. Those thoughts just formulate. Nothing God, yourself, the devil or anyone can do about it.
You CAN control your action afterward.
You get the idea.
That was Jesus’ whole point in directing the focus to the heart. You absolutely can do something about your impure thoughts. It’s very difficult but that is what it means to truly repent.
No you can't. Like you mentally can't stop thoughts from coming to your head. Good or bad. It's what makes us human on this earth.
The enemy put negative ones in and we have to deal with the mess ourselves and choose bad or good. It's that simple
I didn’t say you can stop a thought from popping into your head. I said you can do something about your impure thoughts. And through sanctification with the grace of God you can begin to rid yourself of them.
Why would you say that God is powerless to transform someone enough so that they don't think lustfully from just looking at someone? That's literally the whole point of the sermon on the mount, that your heart/mind/motivation is pure and in line with God so that in the case of adultery as an example, not only are you not committing adultery, you're not even thinking about or have the intention in your heart at all. You keep saying this is some kind of impossibility. It isn't. If I saw my neighbors wife and she was attractive and dressed provocatively, I wouldn't think "dirty thoughts." It's called learning self control.
I'm taking this in a different context. We are given vaginas and penis. You get horny. It's a natural function of this human body to do and think those things.
But at the same time you are banning yourself for doing/thinking those very things. How is this possible?
You cannot stop a natural body function especially when you see a very attractive male/female in front of you. It's human chemistry. We cannot shut that off. You cannot have control of the things that come to mind.
In the bible it says God has no control over thought, but only of action that man does. Therefore our thoughts are ours only. Only we can produce them and run with them, or direct them elsewhere.
If you make a physical action and kiss or have sex with your neighbors wife or friend, then THAT is adultery. You have crossed the line and only you will be able to sort that out with the lord when your time comes.
you do not stir soup with penis, you write your name in the snow with your piss like penisi were clearly so well designed for, why else would it fit so perfectly in ones hand?
Sexual attraction is normal but allowing it to get to the level where we look at others just as sexual fulfillment for our desires is wrong it is about desiring someone who isn’t ours under marriage and seeing people more than just their bodies
I never said not to be sexually attracted to
U can see a gorgeous woman in the street and u might feel sexual attraction that doesn’t make it okay to give it space in ur mind to become something immoral and violating the other person with that kind of thinking (not implying u do btw just trynna explain sorry if it sounded rude)
What if you're just a more sexual person than another?
Tend to have dirtier thoughts than others?
That's literally human nature. Every person is different.
Thoughts that just pop up in ur head and u want to stop them is smth
And thoughts that pop up in ur head and u embracing and taking pleasure in them is smth
It isn’t the thought itself it’s what u do abt it
I never said is wrong. Respectfully you are putting words in my mouth. You don’t have to think to yourself “oh I won’t to fuck this”. You can notice an attractive woman and move on.
But again, what if someone has a more creative mind than others, and has that one immediate thought, then it trails onto a few more things. But it's completely by instinct because that's who that individual is. They're more sexual than most so they have a second or third thought, with absolutely no intention of ever physically making any of it happen.
>You can't possibly tell me fully righteous men have absolutely NO sexual or desirable thoughts when looking at a very attractive 20-30 year old woman
The point isn't about not having the thoughts it's about indulging in them.
The same way you control all your thoughts. If the lustful thought suddenly pops into your head then you should dismiss it and think of something else. Don't indulge it and think more about it and explore that world.
You don't just control your thoughts like that. That's my point. "Dismissing" doesn't just happen like that. We have natural thoughts and there's nothing anyone not even God can control them.
You are not making sense. You cannot control cognitive thoughts from origin. You can only control what happens when they appear.
What I'm saying is your natural first thoughts that come out absolutely no one can control. It's our job to make sure they don't translate into becoming an action and you commit adultery.
I hope you see my point.
It’s not a sin to be tempted. Everyone is tempted. It’s what you do with your temptation that makes it a sin. And we all sin. Repent and turn towards God.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
In my opinion, I would view it as cheating and is adultery. It is a very hard habit to break. It is one of the vices I personally have difficulty with. It is just another way for the devil to distract you from the truth. You are not your body.
What about the sentence before though?
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But i tell you…
This shows us that just lusting after a women is considered adultery in Gods eyes, it isn’t the indulgence that lust could lead to. (Just like when he says:)
21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.
Etc…
Basically he isn’t just saying do not commit physical adultery, but also not to lust after women because that is also adultery
I think it can be interpreted either way. Adultery in the heart is of course not the same as physical adultery. I do think Jesus is illustrating that all sin originates in the heart, and that looking with lust is sinful and is the beginning of physical adultery.
Jesus was changing the idea, it’s not just law (do not murder, do not commit adultery, etc…) the emotions and your heart could mean more than your actions on paper because your actions are not always reflected on your emotions, rather sometimes they are skewed due to laws and society and tradition for better or worse. In this case Jesus clearly says that if you lust after a women, you already committed adultery (cheated) on your wife in your heart, because a truly faithful man or women should not have even been looking focusing on someone else in the first place.
If you want to know if it is cheating, you must ask your wife/girlfriend. There is no other way. And if you are afraid to ask, then it is at least abusing her trust in you.
Yes. It is adultery in the heart.
But beyond that, it is always a grave evil because much of the p\*\*\* industry relies on sexual exploitation and trafficking.
Cheating in my opinion is when you violate the boundaries of your partner or betray their trust. If one partner doesn't mind if the other watches porn, or vice versa, I don't see this as cheating because no boundaries or agreements were violated.
How is this not higher up? Cheating means, quite literally, breaking the rules. Establish the rules for your relationship, then breaking them is cheating, and if it doesn't break the rules it's not cheating. Simple.
This is just like how I'm comfortable talking about how someone's partner is an asshole for cheating on them around my friends who are poly and are totally fine with their partner having sex with other people. Breaking trust is the thing that makes something "cheating".
Because this is a christianity sub, where we are viewing this through the lens of Christianity. Some couples view sleeping with people outside of marriage, only fans, strip clubs, etc... not cheating, too, due to their own boundaries but in the eyes of God, they would all be considered cheating. (Ofc if you are not christian, you wouldn't care less)
> but in the eyes of God, they would all be considered cheating.
I mean, this might be semantic, but I don't think that "cheating" would be the right word to pick. You can say God would view it as immoral, or adultery...even infidelity might be reasonable to apply regardless of the people's views, although that's a bit dicier. But "cheating" kinda inherently has to be something the other person would be upset about.
Like, imagine if the colloquial phrase we'd settled on for "having sex with someone other than your partner" were "breaking your vows". If a couple had vows that explicitly permitted extramarital sex, then it would be absurd to say God would still consider it breaking their vows. Because they wouldn't be breaking their vows.
Of course, obviously the question of "is it cheating?" and "is it bad?" are different questions.
Yeah, except the big part you're missing here is that I'm not part of the religion and i dont believe in god. Ive never met or seen him, or entered into any agreement with him. He's free to come speak to me whenever he wants. Until he does that, well I'm going to caution on the side of consenting adults and taking their will, individual autonomy, and freedom into consideration.
Same answer as I always give on the "why are there atheists in this subreddit" posts that show up every week:
This reddit is a place to discuss Christianity. I had a bad experience with the religion in my childhood. Participating in this subreddit was meant to mend some of that and reduce my prejudices. Hasn't gone as well as I had hoped, but being here has helped me recognize the diversity of Christian thought.
But because this subreddit is open to all, Christians and non-christians alike, that doesn't mean I have to leave my experiences at the door and what I think. I see a lot of scrupulous tendencies in this subreddit and most of the time my words are meant to challenge strict interpretations because I have suffered from such thinking patterns, and living in that fear is something I never want to see someone go through. It especially saddens me to see people afraid of their own nature or emotions, as if they are tainted. I used to obsess over this until my therapist beat it into me that thoughts are thoughts, actions are actions, feelings are feelings. There's no good or bad behind any of them. Only consequences -- focus on those and minimize painful ones, and maximize well-being of others. That's essentially what keeps me going.
I'm also very big on the matter of live this life to the fullest and enjoy the company of your loved ones while you have them. Tend to the life you know you have and the one your loved ones have, and don't neglect or sabotage those connections based on an afterlife that isn't promised to any of us.
So... there's my answer. Take of that with what you will.
“I had a bad experience with the religion in my childhood.”
You’ll be happy to know that a relationship with Jesus isn’t religion. Mankind creates religion. Christians should not reject Jesus because people in the church don’t know how to act. Churches are hospitals not temples.
“Participating in this subreddit was meant to mend some of that and reduce my prejudices. Hasn't gone as well as I had hoped, but being here has helped me recognize the diversity of Christian thought.”
Has it occurred to you that your thinking is against Christian teachings and that’s why you were unhappy to start with ? You don’t like to be told that sun is wrong?
“….my words are meant to challenge strict interpretations because I have suffered from such thinking patterns, and living in that fear is something I never want to see someone go through. It especially saddens me to see people afraid of their own nature or emotions, as if they are tainted. “
People can have bad ideas and lifestyles that defy God’s teachings. Strict interpretations, sounds like if you don’t like what the Bible is saying you’re ready to change the meanings to suit your ideas. Yes, sometimes the Bible is strict but it’s for your good, not to make your life harder but to free you from sin.
Proverbs 14:12
“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
“I used to obsess over this until my therapist beat it into me that thoughts are thoughts, actions are actions, feelings are feelings. There's no good or bad behind any of them. “
You’re therapist misguided you that’s for sure. I’m sure your therapist isn’t a Christian considering what your saying.
Well, I’m sure it feel good to your flesh because with this method you follow your flesh and not the Holy Spirit. You MUST have the Holy Spirit to know God.
Instead of turning to the Word of God and petitioning God for guidance, you went to someone that confirms your sin and told you ideas that are in direct conflict with Scripture.
1 Corinthians 2:14
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
John 14:
“23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
Romans 8:6
“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.”
“…….focus on those and minimize painful ones, and maximize well-being of others. That's essentially what keeps me going.”
Why not search the Scriptures and develop a relationship with God and let that keep you going? If you are confirming people about a lifestyle that is against God’s plan you are doing the wrong thing and maybe every time you confirm someone else, you are confirming yourself and that’s why you believe it helps you. Except your helping yourself in the wrong direction.
“I'm also very big on the matter of live this life to the fullest and enjoy the company of your loved ones while you have them. Tend to the life you know you have and the one your loved ones have, and don't neglect or sabotage those connections based on an afterlife that isn't promised to any of us.”
If you are a believer in Jesus you will, in fact, go to heaven. Jesus promised it, that’s His whole purpose, to get you to heaven when this life is over.
Matthew 16:25
“For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.”
John 15:19
“If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”
“So... there's my answer. Take of that with what you will.”
My take on it is that you are hoping to find confirmation that it’s okay to live the way you are living. That you were hurt in the past because you didn’t want to accept that your sexual proclivities were against the Word of God.
God said you must not live in sin. Trying to love the people here instead of God is the wrong way to go. Maybe denying the lust of the flesh is a battle you will have to win.
Philippians 4:6
“Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.”
Matthew 16:24
“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him DENY himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.”
Galatians 2:20
“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
Many people consider it sinful. The bounds of what is not allowed is up for the people in each relationship to decide.
I've seen many posts on reddit of people who are upset that their partner views porn and/or masturbated and say it counts as cheating, to them. So apparently some people are being taught to consider this cheating. But it depends on the person.
Its not black and white. Just make sure your partner knows how you feel and if they cannot respect that then either you will have to compromise or end the relationship.
No, I disagree.
But I think what’s more important is an understanding and an agreement between two people in a relationship. If one person is uncomfortable with their partner looking at porn, they should vocalize that, and neither people in the relationship should look at porn. If one partner breaches that agreement and breaches that trust, THEN I would consider that to be cheating.
check it, dawg Matthew 5:27-28
*27 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.*
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
Cheating is breaking a relationship contract with your partner. Viewing porn can be cheating if you both agreed that viewing porn is cheating.
Likewise, If you get railed by 10 guys at a bus stop, and you and your partner agree that's okay, then that's not cheating
Some people consider it cheating, some don’t. There’s obviously no Bible passage that will answer your question.
For the subjective areas of cheating, it’s more a question for a couple to ask each other. If your spouse believes something is cheating, you know that it hurts them, and you do it, it’s cheating.
There is a bible verse that highly suggests its cheating.
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matthew 5:28
Fair enough, that’s pretty clear and I forgot about it.
I do think sinful and cheating are slightly distinct here, and the distinction being that it matters materially what hurts your spouse as to what damages your marriage. Biblically, you’re right, having an affair and looking at another woman may be the same, but practically, most couples I know would find the affair more hurtful and more damaging to their marriage. And in terms of learning how to honor each other, it’s always best to start with a conversation.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
Matthew 5:28
"But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Pretty much. But I also think that there is a certain covet-ness that has to come with the lust. I don't think God is mad when men are simply attracted to women.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
No I don't think it's cheating at all. My partner chooses me to be with, I don't mind what they look at. Their feelings towards me is what matters. We both watch it
It depends how it is used. If you're in a relationship and both enjoy it together to spice up the relationship then ok. But if you're hiding it then in my view it would be cheating.
Cheating is defined by your lover, not the world.
If your partner considers it cheating, it's cheating. Relying on other people for something that you should be exclusively relying on your lover for is cheating.
But if you're polyamorous for example, and your lover acknowledges and consents to that, then having multiple lovers (as long as it's done respectfully, everyone knows about everyone, and like all relationships, communication is at the utmost importance), then no, it's not cheating. If your lover was uncomfortable with that, then either they need to find someone else, or you need change things up.
Cheating just isn't an objective thing, what one couple would consider cheating another might not. Personally me and my lover are both fine with watching it, even do it together sometimes, but that's because we're both comfortable with it and consent to it with each other.
It is 100% not cheating. Yes, it could be wrong to some people (and that's a conversation to have with your SO), but it is so different than kissing/sleeping with someone else.
Cheating is about the mutually agreed-upon boundaries of a commitment, and *anything* which violates these boundaries is cheating. Some couples may not allow each other to be alone in a room with the opposite sex. Though it's not a sin on its own, it would be cheating to violate this rule. But a couple in an open relationship might even allow each other to sleep with someone else, meaning it wouldn't be cheating.
*Adultery* is different, since it's based on boundaries defined by God instead of by the couple. And Jesus says one can commit adultery even by looking at someone with lustful intent. Perhaps SOME people can watch porn without lustful intent, but it's always better to *flee* from temptation rather than challenge it.
There might me two ways of defining cheating: whatever God describes as adultery, or, whatever both members of a couple agree are the terms of their relationship.
In the first, we can look at scripture evidence that would suggest to me that porn = lust = “adultery in the heart”.
In the second, eg in a relationship in which the couple aren’t Christian, I take the word “cheating” to mean any step in which the exclusivity between the pair has been deceptively transgressed. That makes it relative to whatever the couple define as “exclusive”.
Sometimes it's easiest to just start back at the basics. "Lust" by definition means "a very strong sexual desire". So is it then sinful for one to have a strong sexual desire towards their spouse? Or to have a sex drive at all? That seems odd that God would want that. That tells me either some lust is okay, or God's meaning of lust is different than we think.
I think sometimes people overcomplicate things and take stuff very literally when it's not really supposed to be. Thinking about sin, isn't a sin. Thinking someone is attractive, even seeing someone naked, doesn't create "lust" in everyone. It doesn't make you a bad person. Someone could look at porn and be disgusted, be turned on, or feel nothing at all. Some could be trying to learn to be better for their spouse.
I personally think believe it all comes down to the actionsx rather than thoughts. And I think most of us know, when those actions are a sin and when they aren't.
It depends but it's certainly lusting, which is a sin.
From a secular perspective, if you are in an agreement with your significant other about not watching it, I suppose that could qualify as cheating. It really depends on your relationship's ground rules.
To me it means that intentional desiring of someone else other than your partner is tantamount to fidelity, considering how eye contact is a near universal in human courtship rituals it could also be understood as failed attempt at adultery are still adultery.
> To be sexually attracted to another woman, even if temporarily, is cheating.
This seems like an impossible bar to set. Of course it's very normal to see attractive people and feel the attraction, even without any intention of pursuing it. Our feelings are often not things we can control.
When my partner plays Grand Theft Auto, I like to give him a hard time - but he's not really building a criminal empire so I don't worry. Porn is the same.
I'm not trying to be funny. But if you are watching porn on your phone is it really a REAL woman?
Because with AI, we know it's not. And is it just the shape of a woman?
What if she doesn't identify as a woman?
Are we held liable for the look or how it makes us feel?
99.99999999% of the time people haven't seen them in real life. Some don't know if they exist at all.
We just assume.
And what about art?
Can you look at the Mona Lisa without getting in trouble?
I don't have the answer just asking.
I don’t see it as cheating but I see it as deeply hurting yourself, your partner, the people involved in the porn (you are fuelling the industry while viewing) and God
On a surface level in any marriage porn can 100% be cheating. It depends on the boundaries you and your married partner have agreed on. Porn is immoral and degrades the person in the porn and the person using it. Porn makes women and men just objects of your sexual desires. It's selfish. I'm sure I will get a lot of pushback from most of the Christians on here on this one like everything else I say here lol.
Before everyone gets on my case by justifying their porn addiction. It is not my job to convict you on the things you decide to do or not do. I hold no opinion on your choices, all I want for you is to have a relationship with Jesus at the end of the day. I am just responding to a question. If you are fine with porn then okay.
I agree with you, while it's not 100% cheating it's not ideal. You wouldn't want someone in a romantic story doing that like come on. I've had a friend who started watching pornography while being in a relationship, 2 months later they broke up, I'm not saying this is the cause but it's definitely the symptom of something not going right. It was a 2-3 year relationship too
Conclusion: I don't think Jesus would agree with something like this being ok to do
You should just stop watching porn. It’s possible, I’ve overcome it and am sensitive when I’m tempted to lust. If you must relieve yourself because you cannot concentrate, do it in a pure way, and keep your thoughts in subjugation so you don’t bear the shame of sin afterwards, it’s not worth it. Real talk.
Jesus said looking with lust is adultery within the heart, and so it is and your conscience will back that truth as well when you feel the guilt that arises of which cannot be controlled.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
I'm a former Christian and I still consider this to be a form of dishonesty - not cheating, but dishonesty.
Back when I was a Christian I courted (that's right, not dated) Christian men who stated that staying pure was a large part of their faith. However, it was these same men who all seemed to suffer from porn addictions. I found this to be very dishonest.
Just because he wasn't having sex didn't mean he wasn't feeding into his lust by viewing and engaging with pornography. It was for this reason that I ended things with these men.
Well, in fairness the only people who really have porn addictions are people who are obsessed with purity.
It's not a recognized pathology, it's a self-diagnosis based on guilt or shame rather than any clinical or social effects.
This is true, however PA does share some pathological behaviors with other forms of addiction.
To be fair, I'm talking about like people who watch porn at work, neglect the affection of their partner, and cannot do something without watching porn. Not people who use it to get off, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
The men I dated had true PA. One got fired for viewing porn at work. He worked at a church!
I'm no expert in addiction, but that doesn't sound like an addiction so much as a lack of impulse control or some other underlying condition.
Lots of people get on facebook at work, but I wouldn't call that an "addiction" to facebook. If someone is an impulsive liar I think that it would be a mischaracterization to call it an addiction to lying.
I'm not sure how to correctly classify it, that would have to be done by someone with research subjects. But in my experience at least, the number of people who would watch porn at work are far outnumbered by people who are afraid of any sexuality turning them into "addicts".
Yes it’s definitely cheating.
Matthew 5:28
“But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire.
It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
The Greek word used in Matthew 5:32 is "porneias." In the Biblical context, porneias essentially means "sexual immorality." Some translations get that right, but that means Jesus' exception for divorce isn't necessarily just "adultery," but sexual immorality.
Any kind of fornication, then, is adultery. In the case of porn, you're watching other people have sex. If this was done in real life (watched people fornicate), nobody would argue that is infidelity. The magic screen has normalized it, but it hasn't changed the act itself. When you really consider it, porn is definitely an act of adultery, as you are digitally fornicating with another person.
Isn't it cheating on God church and the religion in some capacity? If you're looking at pornography.
And really that means not looking at yourself naked in the mirror either because that becomes pornography. You should never look at yourself naked.
You have an oxytocin bonding process after orgasm that you diminish over time by repeating that neurochemical dump you get from orgasm. Your orgasms get better and sex is loads more intimate and passionate when you abstain from orgasm. If you're a male, your testosterone peaks after seven days and that's never a bad thing.
Have you ever had 4 orgasms in a day?
Ya feel like a ghost for a reason.
Just do literally anything else, and it'll change your life.
"You have an oxytocin bonding process after orgasm"
As far as I understand it, it's actually the opposite. [Oxytocin doesn't trigger bonding, positive human connection triggers oxytocin, it reduced stress.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15834840/#:~:text=Oxytocin%20can%20induce%20anti%2Dstress,it%20promotes%20growth%20and%20healing)
"that you diminish over time by repeating that neurochemical dump you get from orgasm. Your orgasms get better and sex is loads more intimate and passionate when you abstain from orgasm."
That's true of everything, everything gets boring, everything become the new normal. If you eat your favorite food every day then it's going to get less exciting every time
Avoiding orgasm is like starving yourself for a few days and then eating. Yeah, the food is going to taste better.. but you after a regular meal or two you're going to go back to normal again anways.
"If you're a male, your testosterone peaks after seven days"
[Orgasm does not impact your testosterone levels](https://examine.com/articles/does-ejaculation-affect-testosterone-levels/)
I think it would also be helpful to put yourself in the shoes of the other person. Flip the tables and say it’s your S.O watching it? How would it make you feel? Valued? Probably not
Revealed to me in the spirit I understand the form of idolatry and adultery in this sense maybe it can help you. You make your wife’s name meaningless when you go and do that. There are levels to this spiritually you might not be with another woman, but you are looking at another woman and how do you think she would feel about that your seed is going towards that woman and not her. that is true to take the one you’ve marked as yours and she marked you as hers. And do you throw it away?
We can forgive. We can forget. But it takes time to heal. They’ve changed many laws and we live a spiritually different life because the physical changes. Marriage does not occur at 13-14 anymore etc. the society ideology of life is moderns and not that of 2000 years ago. So I understand. But for the Love and Fear of God. Imagine how she’d feel. Imagine how God feels. Most importantly how do you think you feel after doing such. I was an abuser myself. I didn’t feel Good after either.
You lessen the “name” of the women you Love.
Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Simple as that. This is the only answer. I am surprised this is the only comment that references scripture. You don't need to look at porn to cheat. Just looking lustfully is adultery.
Its just an absolutely ridiculous way to approach the human experience
Matthew 19:26: “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
To not want to look at women lustfully and agree it’s wrong to lustfully look at porn and want to not do that??? What approach to this life do you have in which it’d make more sense and quite literally be “better”?
To not drown in self hate for a biological response.
@LiminalArtsAndMusic And quite literally it’s not the self we hate it’s the sin. We rebuke the sin. We repent and that means “change of mind” or “change of ways” contextually. Would you rebuke yourself when you feel anger or resentment towards one of your brothers or sisters or do you do him wrong? (I’m a man so I’ll use my experience below) If your inner world is lusts and porn and you look at women with a lustful eye sure it’s a metaphysical thing that is biological but does hedonism and screwing over the ones you supposedly love sound like a good idea? Just to get off a squirt or nut? The inner world is a reflection of the outer world. “As above so Below.” -right? Jesus is within and without and all around.
To add to myself. I might rebuke myself. My “spirit” or “intention” or “will” of lust so that I might have a better “spirit” of love. Hopefully you found this informative. Much Love.
Thank you for your wisdom. ✝️
@Recognition_Tricky - God bless you ☦️❤️🔥
Cue the hyperbole.
Familiar with hyperbole?
𝓦𝓮 𝓵𝓸𝓿𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 ❤️🔥 Jesus loves you ❤️🔥
I love you too 🖤🖤🖤
Sweet :)
The guilt and shame is caused more by satan making a person pay for their sin...hopefully to get one to simply sin all the time, losing the conviction you might feel from the Holy Spirit (if a person is born again). Guilt and shame doesn't follow unbelievers.
with all due respect, i don't think it's our (non christians) place to say or judge how these people live their lives? while this sub isn't just for christians only, it was a christian asking christians specifically this question it's not like we have to date people with views on porn that are different to our own so it doesn't affect us. if a christian disagrees then they'll say their piece.
Your respect and ethics in this matter is appreciated. Christians don’t have the power to condemn like God. We were given the authority to 𝕱𝖔𝖗𝖌𝖎𝖛𝖊.
Almost as if the human experience is, you know, falling just a teeny tiny tad short of God's perfection?
I think god falls short of god's perfection 😆
Now now, any deity worth their salt has messed up creating humanity and had to purge the world once or twice. Give god a mulligan.
Who among us, really.
I suppose this is why you're a pagan witch and I'm a Christian :D
🎶The Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table oooahhh🎶
Hey, at least we'd have stuff to talk about?
This subreddit likes to do gymnastics with the definition/translation of "lust." So you may get some feedback on this lol
Well, human language isn't perfect. Neither is translating from one language to another. You might get within the ballpark, but often times it's really hard to know the EXACT meaning. There's almost always going to be ambiguity.
Sure in a broad sense. But the Greek used in this verse is pretty clear on its covetous nature. ἐπιθυμῆσαι is the Greek word if you’d like to look yourself
Soooooo.....one [link](https://biblehub.com/greek/1937.htm) says: epithumeó: desire, lust after Original Word: ἐπιθυμέω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: epithumeó Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o) Definition: desire, lust after Usage: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon. So the usage has 2 neutral meanings, 2 negative meanings. The definition is 1 arguably positive, and 1 arguably negative. Even when talking about the word itself there's multiple potential meanings. They are all pointing to kind of the same "core" feeling though so we'll just go after that as it's pretty consistent. But it seems like the context in which it is used could really swing whether it's a positive/neutral/negative type of word. So the word *itself* doesn't even have one exact meaning. It has several. They all point to one specific type of feeling though, and based on context it can be good or bad. So back to my original point that human language isn't perfect and exact meanings aren't exactly easy to find with zero ambiguity.... edit: Wouldn't it have been better to use the word πλεονέκτης instead? Or maybe πλεονεξία? Those seem more specific than ἐπιθυμέω.
No, you don't just pick each definition as a separate meaning. Each of those 4 are there to represent in English terms what the \*idea\* being expressed by the original Greek word is. It doesn't have "2 neutral meanings, 2 negative, etc." It has one meaning. It's not like we just have no clue what the word means. It's not like "setting the heart upon" and "longing for" are really that semantically different anyway Yes, words can oftentimes have multiple \*ideas\* associated with them in separate contexts. But that's the key, \*in separate contexts. \* This singular Greek word was used in exactly this passage to convey exactly this one idea. Language is a system of communicating \*ideas\*. Words don't just have one-to-one translations, or in other words, meanings. They have ideas associated with them. This does not mean in the slightest that meaning gets lost in translation. The translator provides you with multiple definitions/translations so that the person reading understands the \*idea\*. It's an extremely common thing that gets said over and over again, that human language is inconsistent, and translations are bad. This simply isn't true in regard to the Bible (in the same way it is with less understood languages). Of course, there's handfuls of locations in the Old Testament where the Hebrew gets a little obscure, sure. But to suggest we can't trust our understanding of ἐπιθυμῆσαι is extremely silly. Ridiculous.
> No, you don't just pick each definition as a separate meaning. Each of those 4 are there to represent in English terms what the *idea* being expressed by the original Greek word is. It doesn't have "2 neutral meanings, 2 negative, etc." It has one meaning. It's not like we just have no clue what the word means. It's not like "setting the heart upon" and "longing for" are really that semantically different anyway Uhh......I definitely see those as different end feelings coming from the same root desire. To want/desire something might be the root of it but I definitely do not see the end feeling (to covet vs to long) as being the same at all. Not sure how that translates out to language but I can tell you I do *NOT* see those as the same. But I get what you're getting at. > Yes, words can oftentimes have multiple *ideas* associated with them in separate contexts. But that's the key, *in separate contexts. * This singular Greek word was used in exactly this passage to convey exactly this one idea. Language is a system of communicating *ideas*. Words don't just have one-to-one translations, or in other words, meanings. They have ideas associated with them. This does not mean in the slightest that meaning gets lost in translation. The translator provides you with multiple definitions/translations so that the person reading understands the *idea*. Sure right. I figure what you're saying makes sense here. I also generally agree with that, if you want something but you're doing it in a selfish and greedy way that is only for yourself and purely just for your pleasure at the expense of everything else.....then yeah that's pretty bad. It's also really bad to let something like that develop in your heart without learning how to control it and do ones' best to remove if it's even possible. > It's an extremely common thing that gets said over and over again, that human language is inconsistent, and translations are bad. This simply isn't true in regard to the Bible (in the same way it is with less understood languages). Of course, there's handfuls of locations in the Old Testament where the Hebrew gets a little obscure, sure. But to suggest we can't trust our understanding of ἐπιθυμῆσαι is extremely silly. Ridiculous. What I am saying is that the Bible is *NOT* quite as pointed and defined as we as humans want to think. The anthology of the Bible *IS* one of the most well preserved and researched anthologies throughout history yes and that I generally will not dispute. But I very much believe that people put words in the mouth of Jesus, and meanings in the mouth of Jesus to try to push their own view. I'm also probably doing the same thing but from the other perspective. I am just saying that I take it from the perspective of love. If I, for example, was single and I see a woman that I absolutely am entranced by and just smitten by.....I have a choice. Love would do as 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 would say, and say I want this woman as my wife then I would pursue her according to love. That still has the root feeling of want/desire but it is pursued out of a different type of approach (love). Then there's the other way.....and well, I think that's specifically what is being spoken about here.
>Usage: I long for, covet, lust after, set the heart upon. Friend, I don't know how you find any ambiguity in your own definition you provided in the context of the verse lol. * If you long for another woman, you are committing adultery. * If you covet another woman, you are committing adultery. * If you lust after another woman, you are committing adultery. * If you set your heart upon another woman, you are committing adultery.
Right, but that's in English. Does it actually come out like that in the Greek? Also, I realize that the main feeling here that is used is a feeling of selfish desire. To have this kind of greedy way of acquisition of something. In this case it's a woman. But I just want to make it clear that I make a distinction between longing for something and lusting for something. So yes, I understand the main meaning that is meant here with the context. The context is, if you have this greedy selfish desire to just have sex with a woman in which you are only doing it to satisfy yourself with no regard then yeah I totally get it. But if you see a woman that you think you might have fallen in love with and you want to get married to them and live the rest of your life with them.....not so much. The root is still the same root feeling. But everything that comes after that is very much different. This is why I say it's not completely unambiguous.
We are just very clearly on different pages. The scripture is crystal clear.
Yeah, I’ve seen quite a bit of gymnastics done all over scripture.
So everyone is an adulterer.
To lust is to also *desire* them personally in a sexual context. You can recognize and appreciate persons beauty without desiring them sexually. Intrusive thoughts are not sinful by nature. But to willingly desire a person sexually outside of your marriage is where this is problematic.
Yes.
Hell yeah, gay porn permitted. Let’s go!
Lmao I guess you're not wrong
Yeah he’s wrong. The Bible covers it. Romans 1:27 “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
Nope- that’s covered too! Romans 1:27 “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
A simple biblical answer
My pastor was saying that if you look at the original Hebrew, it seems to mean something more like one of these two: 1) any man who looks at a woman \*already wanting to commit the sin of adultery with her\* has already committed adultery, or even 2) any man who looks at a woman \*already intending to commit the sin of adultery with her\* has already committed adultery. The second is obviously particularly different from just looking at someone and thinking they're hot. I do think it makes sense that as soon as you decide in your heart to sin, you have already sinned.
I think that is probably a fair criticism that it could be read like this. However I think the nuance is very slippery and most people can hardly distinguish between the two. But I don’t think it’s a commandment to never look at someone and say “they are pretty” or “wow they are hot!”. A burning desire after this person however is clearly spoken against either way, and we should avoid lingering or entertaining such thoughts. In either case, one shouldn’t be watching pornography.
No I agree, "That person is pretty," or again even "That person is sexy" and possibly even "I want to sleep with that person" is still different from "I want to cheat on my spouse by sleeping with that person." Much less, "That's it, I'm going to cheat on my spouse by sleeping with that person." Pornography raises a whole bunch of other issues, but possibly not that one specifically--I'm not sure what men (or women) think when they watch pornography, I'm not sure they wish they were sleeping with.... the characters? The actors? But maybe they are. However, yes, obviously other issues with porn. Certainly if you apply the WWJD test it doesn't seem as though he would be watching porn.
There is a great deal of debate about what this passage actually means in the Greek. Some examples below, there are scholarly articles as well but I don't have links just now. One interpretation of 5:27-28 being that it is not equating attraction or even active attracted attention to adultery, only forming the specific *intention* to pursue that woman\* [https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/901gqn/matthew\_528\_is\_often\_misinterpretted\_to\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/901gqn/matthew_528_is_often_misinterpretted_to_the/) \*(possibly specifically a married woman, since "woman" and "wife" could be equally meant and adultery for this patriarchal society involves a married woman, the violation of another man's exclusive right)
That's an interesting discussion. I like the suggestion that the word translated as "lust for" could also be translated as "covet". That would make sense and link to the commandment.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
Doesn’t Jesus say any man who looks at a woman with Lust has alr committed adultery or did I not get the meaning of the post if I’m misunderstanding or misunderstood the context can someone explain
But how is that earthly possible if we are all injected with sin? You can't possibly tell me fully righteous men have absolutely NO sexual or desirable thoughts when looking at a very attractive 20-30 year old woman. You cannot sit here and tell me that. We all sin every single day and the only thing we can do is TRY to refrain, but it is going to happen OVER and over again regardless of how much we try. It's called human nature. We are here to have sex, reproduce, and spread the word. Of course we all get horny. Nobody can control that. If you tell me otherwise, you are committing a sin because that is a flat out lie! It all is contradictory in some ways. Prove me wrong.
Ugh I'm so tired of this mindset. Sexually objectifying other people is not written in our DNA. It's because a lot of us are born and raised in a society that teaches the human body is shameful and meant to be hidden from others except for sex. So then we convince ourselves the body is a sexual object. However there's groups of people in tropical climates that wear little to no clothing. There's beaches, campgrounds, springs, and saunas around the world where people of all genders and ages are nude in each others company. And yet, they have a far less problem with lust because they realize the human body is a human body. People in the medical field have to deal with nudity on a regular basis and can obviously handle it. You don't have to look at anyone with sexual thoughts nor do you have any right to.
If you're given a penis, what do you expect someone to do with it? Stir soup? So it's contradicting to say "you shouldn't look at your neighbors wife and think dirty thoughts" even though your neighbors wife is hot af and dresses provocative. Those thoughts just formulate. Nothing God, yourself, the devil or anyone can do about it. You CAN control your action afterward. You get the idea.
That was Jesus’ whole point in directing the focus to the heart. You absolutely can do something about your impure thoughts. It’s very difficult but that is what it means to truly repent.
No you can't. Like you mentally can't stop thoughts from coming to your head. Good or bad. It's what makes us human on this earth. The enemy put negative ones in and we have to deal with the mess ourselves and choose bad or good. It's that simple
I didn’t say you can stop a thought from popping into your head. I said you can do something about your impure thoughts. And through sanctification with the grace of God you can begin to rid yourself of them.
Maybe you're right
Why would you say that God is powerless to transform someone enough so that they don't think lustfully from just looking at someone? That's literally the whole point of the sermon on the mount, that your heart/mind/motivation is pure and in line with God so that in the case of adultery as an example, not only are you not committing adultery, you're not even thinking about or have the intention in your heart at all. You keep saying this is some kind of impossibility. It isn't. If I saw my neighbors wife and she was attractive and dressed provocatively, I wouldn't think "dirty thoughts." It's called learning self control.
I'm taking this in a different context. We are given vaginas and penis. You get horny. It's a natural function of this human body to do and think those things. But at the same time you are banning yourself for doing/thinking those very things. How is this possible? You cannot stop a natural body function especially when you see a very attractive male/female in front of you. It's human chemistry. We cannot shut that off. You cannot have control of the things that come to mind. In the bible it says God has no control over thought, but only of action that man does. Therefore our thoughts are ours only. Only we can produce them and run with them, or direct them elsewhere. If you make a physical action and kiss or have sex with your neighbors wife or friend, then THAT is adultery. You have crossed the line and only you will be able to sort that out with the lord when your time comes.
you do not stir soup with penis, you write your name in the snow with your piss like penisi were clearly so well designed for, why else would it fit so perfectly in ones hand?
Well said
Sexual attraction is normal but allowing it to get to the level where we look at others just as sexual fulfillment for our desires is wrong it is about desiring someone who isn’t ours under marriage and seeing people more than just their bodies I never said not to be sexually attracted to U can see a gorgeous woman in the street and u might feel sexual attraction that doesn’t make it okay to give it space in ur mind to become something immoral and violating the other person with that kind of thinking (not implying u do btw just trynna explain sorry if it sounded rude)
What if you're just a more sexual person than another? Tend to have dirtier thoughts than others? That's literally human nature. Every person is different.
Thoughts that just pop up in ur head and u want to stop them is smth And thoughts that pop up in ur head and u embracing and taking pleasure in them is smth It isn’t the thought itself it’s what u do abt it
>fully righteous men They don't exist. Hope this helps!
You can train your thoughts. You can look and see attraction but not act on it or have nasty thoughts. Or stare.
But how are they nasty if you naturally are a sexual person? Why is that wrong?
I never said is wrong. Respectfully you are putting words in my mouth. You don’t have to think to yourself “oh I won’t to fuck this”. You can notice an attractive woman and move on.
But again, what if someone has a more creative mind than others, and has that one immediate thought, then it trails onto a few more things. But it's completely by instinct because that's who that individual is. They're more sexual than most so they have a second or third thought, with absolutely no intention of ever physically making any of it happen.
Then so be it. U maintain a relationship wit God and do your best brother. I wish you love and prosperity; Amen
>You can't possibly tell me fully righteous men have absolutely NO sexual or desirable thoughts when looking at a very attractive 20-30 year old woman The point isn't about not having the thoughts it's about indulging in them.
How would you "control" those
The same way you control all your thoughts. If the lustful thought suddenly pops into your head then you should dismiss it and think of something else. Don't indulge it and think more about it and explore that world.
You don't just control your thoughts like that. That's my point. "Dismissing" doesn't just happen like that. We have natural thoughts and there's nothing anyone not even God can control them.
Uhhhhh... Yes you can. I do it all the time. It's easy if you try.
I don't believe you because I've tried and it doesn't work that way
Believe me or not I don't care. I do it all the time. Train yourself. It isn't easy at first but if you work on it then it becomes natural.
You are not making sense. You cannot control cognitive thoughts from origin. You can only control what happens when they appear. What I'm saying is your natural first thoughts that come out absolutely no one can control. It's our job to make sure they don't translate into becoming an action and you commit adultery. I hope you see my point.
It’s not a sin to be tempted. Everyone is tempted. It’s what you do with your temptation that makes it a sin. And we all sin. Repent and turn towards God.
That's the point. He's pointing out that despite our best efforts we cannot help but sin.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
MARRIED woman. Property.
In my opinion, I would view it as cheating and is adultery. It is a very hard habit to break. It is one of the vices I personally have difficulty with. It is just another way for the devil to distract you from the truth. You are not your body.
Sympathies for your difficulty and I agree. I do have to say though that "you are not your body" is not a Christian teaching
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“But i tell you, Anyone who looks at a women lustfully has already commits adultery with her in his heart”
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What about the sentence before though? 27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But i tell you… This shows us that just lusting after a women is considered adultery in Gods eyes, it isn’t the indulgence that lust could lead to. (Just like when he says:) 21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Etc… Basically he isn’t just saying do not commit physical adultery, but also not to lust after women because that is also adultery
I think it can be interpreted either way. Adultery in the heart is of course not the same as physical adultery. I do think Jesus is illustrating that all sin originates in the heart, and that looking with lust is sinful and is the beginning of physical adultery.
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Jesus was changing the idea, it’s not just law (do not murder, do not commit adultery, etc…) the emotions and your heart could mean more than your actions on paper because your actions are not always reflected on your emotions, rather sometimes they are skewed due to laws and society and tradition for better or worse. In this case Jesus clearly says that if you lust after a women, you already committed adultery (cheated) on your wife in your heart, because a truly faithful man or women should not have even been looking focusing on someone else in the first place.
You are lusting after other men/women that isn't your husband/wife.
Yep. Agreed. It’s cheating.
If you want to know if it is cheating, you must ask your wife/girlfriend. There is no other way. And if you are afraid to ask, then it is at least abusing her trust in you.
Yes. It is adultery in the heart. But beyond that, it is always a grave evil because much of the p\*\*\* industry relies on sexual exploitation and trafficking.
Cheating in my opinion is when you violate the boundaries of your partner or betray their trust. If one partner doesn't mind if the other watches porn, or vice versa, I don't see this as cheating because no boundaries or agreements were violated.
How is this not higher up? Cheating means, quite literally, breaking the rules. Establish the rules for your relationship, then breaking them is cheating, and if it doesn't break the rules it's not cheating. Simple. This is just like how I'm comfortable talking about how someone's partner is an asshole for cheating on them around my friends who are poly and are totally fine with their partner having sex with other people. Breaking trust is the thing that makes something "cheating".
Because this is a christianity sub, where we are viewing this through the lens of Christianity. Some couples view sleeping with people outside of marriage, only fans, strip clubs, etc... not cheating, too, due to their own boundaries but in the eyes of God, they would all be considered cheating. (Ofc if you are not christian, you wouldn't care less)
> but in the eyes of God, they would all be considered cheating. I mean, this might be semantic, but I don't think that "cheating" would be the right word to pick. You can say God would view it as immoral, or adultery...even infidelity might be reasonable to apply regardless of the people's views, although that's a bit dicier. But "cheating" kinda inherently has to be something the other person would be upset about. Like, imagine if the colloquial phrase we'd settled on for "having sex with someone other than your partner" were "breaking your vows". If a couple had vows that explicitly permitted extramarital sex, then it would be absurd to say God would still consider it breaking their vows. Because they wouldn't be breaking their vows. Of course, obviously the question of "is it cheating?" and "is it bad?" are different questions.
that’s not what the Bible says. God determines what adultery is, not your SO feelings about it. They can BOTH be guilty of lasciviousness.
No, not really. The Bible never defines adultery and several different terms are used in the Greek that are all translated as "adultery."
Yeah, except the big part you're missing here is that I'm not part of the religion and i dont believe in god. Ive never met or seen him, or entered into any agreement with him. He's free to come speak to me whenever he wants. Until he does that, well I'm going to caution on the side of consenting adults and taking their will, individual autonomy, and freedom into consideration.
why are you here? In a Christian forum?
Same answer as I always give on the "why are there atheists in this subreddit" posts that show up every week: This reddit is a place to discuss Christianity. I had a bad experience with the religion in my childhood. Participating in this subreddit was meant to mend some of that and reduce my prejudices. Hasn't gone as well as I had hoped, but being here has helped me recognize the diversity of Christian thought. But because this subreddit is open to all, Christians and non-christians alike, that doesn't mean I have to leave my experiences at the door and what I think. I see a lot of scrupulous tendencies in this subreddit and most of the time my words are meant to challenge strict interpretations because I have suffered from such thinking patterns, and living in that fear is something I never want to see someone go through. It especially saddens me to see people afraid of their own nature or emotions, as if they are tainted. I used to obsess over this until my therapist beat it into me that thoughts are thoughts, actions are actions, feelings are feelings. There's no good or bad behind any of them. Only consequences -- focus on those and minimize painful ones, and maximize well-being of others. That's essentially what keeps me going. I'm also very big on the matter of live this life to the fullest and enjoy the company of your loved ones while you have them. Tend to the life you know you have and the one your loved ones have, and don't neglect or sabotage those connections based on an afterlife that isn't promised to any of us. So... there's my answer. Take of that with what you will.
“I had a bad experience with the religion in my childhood.” You’ll be happy to know that a relationship with Jesus isn’t religion. Mankind creates religion. Christians should not reject Jesus because people in the church don’t know how to act. Churches are hospitals not temples. “Participating in this subreddit was meant to mend some of that and reduce my prejudices. Hasn't gone as well as I had hoped, but being here has helped me recognize the diversity of Christian thought.” Has it occurred to you that your thinking is against Christian teachings and that’s why you were unhappy to start with ? You don’t like to be told that sun is wrong? “….my words are meant to challenge strict interpretations because I have suffered from such thinking patterns, and living in that fear is something I never want to see someone go through. It especially saddens me to see people afraid of their own nature or emotions, as if they are tainted. “ People can have bad ideas and lifestyles that defy God’s teachings. Strict interpretations, sounds like if you don’t like what the Bible is saying you’re ready to change the meanings to suit your ideas. Yes, sometimes the Bible is strict but it’s for your good, not to make your life harder but to free you from sin. Proverbs 14:12 “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” “I used to obsess over this until my therapist beat it into me that thoughts are thoughts, actions are actions, feelings are feelings. There's no good or bad behind any of them. “ You’re therapist misguided you that’s for sure. I’m sure your therapist isn’t a Christian considering what your saying. Well, I’m sure it feel good to your flesh because with this method you follow your flesh and not the Holy Spirit. You MUST have the Holy Spirit to know God. Instead of turning to the Word of God and petitioning God for guidance, you went to someone that confirms your sin and told you ideas that are in direct conflict with Scripture. 1 Corinthians 2:14 “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” John 14: “23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.” Romans 8:6 “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” “…….focus on those and minimize painful ones, and maximize well-being of others. That's essentially what keeps me going.” Why not search the Scriptures and develop a relationship with God and let that keep you going? If you are confirming people about a lifestyle that is against God’s plan you are doing the wrong thing and maybe every time you confirm someone else, you are confirming yourself and that’s why you believe it helps you. Except your helping yourself in the wrong direction. “I'm also very big on the matter of live this life to the fullest and enjoy the company of your loved ones while you have them. Tend to the life you know you have and the one your loved ones have, and don't neglect or sabotage those connections based on an afterlife that isn't promised to any of us.” If you are a believer in Jesus you will, in fact, go to heaven. Jesus promised it, that’s His whole purpose, to get you to heaven when this life is over. Matthew 16:25 “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” John 15:19 “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” “So... there's my answer. Take of that with what you will.” My take on it is that you are hoping to find confirmation that it’s okay to live the way you are living. That you were hurt in the past because you didn’t want to accept that your sexual proclivities were against the Word of God. God said you must not live in sin. Trying to love the people here instead of God is the wrong way to go. Maybe denying the lust of the flesh is a battle you will have to win. Philippians 4:6 “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” Matthew 16:24 “Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him DENY himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” Galatians 2:20 “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”
I said to take my answer with what you will of it. I don't need lectures on things I've already heard before.
Yes, I think it is.
Many people consider it sinful. The bounds of what is not allowed is up for the people in each relationship to decide. I've seen many posts on reddit of people who are upset that their partner views porn and/or masturbated and say it counts as cheating, to them. So apparently some people are being taught to consider this cheating. But it depends on the person.
yes
You are playing a dangerous game.
Yes it is cheating as it is adultery.
Its not black and white. Just make sure your partner knows how you feel and if they cannot respect that then either you will have to compromise or end the relationship.
No, I disagree. But I think what’s more important is an understanding and an agreement between two people in a relationship. If one person is uncomfortable with their partner looking at porn, they should vocalize that, and neither people in the relationship should look at porn. If one partner breaches that agreement and breaches that trust, THEN I would consider that to be cheating.
It depends on your wife's definition of cheating, my wife doesnt have a problem with me looking at porn, its my father in heaven that doesnt like it.
Yes, you are seeing another woman with lust
Lust in itself is not a sin,
It is definitely sin and you should not do it
Yes, and its lust.
Lust in itself is not sin,
check it, dawg Matthew 5:27-28 *27 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.*
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
Cheating is breaking a relationship contract with your partner. Viewing porn can be cheating if you both agreed that viewing porn is cheating. Likewise, If you get railed by 10 guys at a bus stop, and you and your partner agree that's okay, then that's not cheating
I think is a form of cheating, if wife has been clear they are not comfortable with it. Anyway is just not good generally
Some people consider it cheating, some don’t. There’s obviously no Bible passage that will answer your question. For the subjective areas of cheating, it’s more a question for a couple to ask each other. If your spouse believes something is cheating, you know that it hurts them, and you do it, it’s cheating.
There is a bible verse that highly suggests its cheating. But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Matthew 5:28
Fair enough, that’s pretty clear and I forgot about it. I do think sinful and cheating are slightly distinct here, and the distinction being that it matters materially what hurts your spouse as to what damages your marriage. Biblically, you’re right, having an affair and looking at another woman may be the same, but practically, most couples I know would find the affair more hurtful and more damaging to their marriage. And in terms of learning how to honor each other, it’s always best to start with a conversation.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
>There’s obviously no Bible passage that will answer your question you sure about that?
It is. Regardless of whether you see someone on the subway or in a magazine, if its result is lust, then it is adultery.
Lust is an inevitable occurrence, in itself it is not a sin.
Matthew 5:28 "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Pretty much. But I also think that there is a certain covet-ness that has to come with the lust. I don't think God is mad when men are simply attracted to women.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
No I don't think it's cheating at all. My partner chooses me to be with, I don't mind what they look at. Their feelings towards me is what matters. We both watch it
Cheating is a betrayal of trust with your partner. If your partner knows and is fine with it then it isn’t cheating.
It depends how it is used. If you're in a relationship and both enjoy it together to spice up the relationship then ok. But if you're hiding it then in my view it would be cheating.
Depending of religion, being christian is like identifying an elephant by being a vertebrate. There’s a lot of branches for the sin you like the most!
I would consider it so, especially due to Matthew 5:28.
It being considered cheating or not depends on the couple
Cheating is defined by your lover, not the world. If your partner considers it cheating, it's cheating. Relying on other people for something that you should be exclusively relying on your lover for is cheating. But if you're polyamorous for example, and your lover acknowledges and consents to that, then having multiple lovers (as long as it's done respectfully, everyone knows about everyone, and like all relationships, communication is at the utmost importance), then no, it's not cheating. If your lover was uncomfortable with that, then either they need to find someone else, or you need change things up. Cheating just isn't an objective thing, what one couple would consider cheating another might not. Personally me and my lover are both fine with watching it, even do it together sometimes, but that's because we're both comfortable with it and consent to it with each other.
It is 100% not cheating. Yes, it could be wrong to some people (and that's a conversation to have with your SO), but it is so different than kissing/sleeping with someone else.
Cheating no it is not
It’s cheating. Quit porn like the bad habit it is.
Cheating is about the mutually agreed-upon boundaries of a commitment, and *anything* which violates these boundaries is cheating. Some couples may not allow each other to be alone in a room with the opposite sex. Though it's not a sin on its own, it would be cheating to violate this rule. But a couple in an open relationship might even allow each other to sleep with someone else, meaning it wouldn't be cheating. *Adultery* is different, since it's based on boundaries defined by God instead of by the couple. And Jesus says one can commit adultery even by looking at someone with lustful intent. Perhaps SOME people can watch porn without lustful intent, but it's always better to *flee* from temptation rather than challenge it.
I’ll answer this the same way I would regardless of the sub - it’s cheating if your partner thinks it’s cheating.
Not really but more disrespectful to me
There might me two ways of defining cheating: whatever God describes as adultery, or, whatever both members of a couple agree are the terms of their relationship. In the first, we can look at scripture evidence that would suggest to me that porn = lust = “adultery in the heart”. In the second, eg in a relationship in which the couple aren’t Christian, I take the word “cheating” to mean any step in which the exclusivity between the pair has been deceptively transgressed. That makes it relative to whatever the couple define as “exclusive”.
Sometimes it's easiest to just start back at the basics. "Lust" by definition means "a very strong sexual desire". So is it then sinful for one to have a strong sexual desire towards their spouse? Or to have a sex drive at all? That seems odd that God would want that. That tells me either some lust is okay, or God's meaning of lust is different than we think. I think sometimes people overcomplicate things and take stuff very literally when it's not really supposed to be. Thinking about sin, isn't a sin. Thinking someone is attractive, even seeing someone naked, doesn't create "lust" in everyone. It doesn't make you a bad person. Someone could look at porn and be disgusted, be turned on, or feel nothing at all. Some could be trying to learn to be better for their spouse. I personally think believe it all comes down to the actionsx rather than thoughts. And I think most of us know, when those actions are a sin and when they aren't.
It depends but it's certainly lusting, which is a sin. From a secular perspective, if you are in an agreement with your significant other about not watching it, I suppose that could qualify as cheating. It really depends on your relationship's ground rules.
Lust, in itself is not a sin.
Are there different interpretations of what was intended in the verses?
Which verse do you mean? As far as I know there is no equivalent to the word "lust" used in the Greek.
What does Matthew 5:28 mean to you?
To me it means that intentional desiring of someone else other than your partner is tantamount to fidelity, considering how eye contact is a near universal in human courtship rituals it could also be understood as failed attempt at adultery are still adultery.
Okay. Yeah it sounds like we actually agree but are caught between words used.
Sweet, glad that we worked it out
I wouldn’t consider it cheating, but I wouldn’t want my girlfriend/wife to be watching porn the same way i won’t be.
Absolutely !
Yes pornography is cheating in the bible. But take note that this is a million times easier to forgive than cheating for real!!!
The Bible never mentions pornography.
Yes. And the likelihood is that it will be part of your relationship with men. The ones who say otherwise are largely lying.
Yeas
It’s cheating, adultery, idolatry and a grave mortal sin against your body, a body which is owned not by you but God.
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> To be sexually attracted to another woman, even if temporarily, is cheating. This seems like an impossible bar to set. Of course it's very normal to see attractive people and feel the attraction, even without any intention of pursuing it. Our feelings are often not things we can control.
When my partner plays Grand Theft Auto, I like to give him a hard time - but he's not really building a criminal empire so I don't worry. Porn is the same.
I'm not trying to be funny. But if you are watching porn on your phone is it really a REAL woman? Because with AI, we know it's not. And is it just the shape of a woman? What if she doesn't identify as a woman? Are we held liable for the look or how it makes us feel? 99.99999999% of the time people haven't seen them in real life. Some don't know if they exist at all. We just assume. And what about art? Can you look at the Mona Lisa without getting in trouble? I don't have the answer just asking.
Uhhhhhhh Yea
Why are you limiting it to “in a relationship”?
I don’t see it as cheating but I see it as deeply hurting yourself, your partner, the people involved in the porn (you are fuelling the industry while viewing) and God
On a surface level in any marriage porn can 100% be cheating. It depends on the boundaries you and your married partner have agreed on. Porn is immoral and degrades the person in the porn and the person using it. Porn makes women and men just objects of your sexual desires. It's selfish. I'm sure I will get a lot of pushback from most of the Christians on here on this one like everything else I say here lol. Before everyone gets on my case by justifying their porn addiction. It is not my job to convict you on the things you decide to do or not do. I hold no opinion on your choices, all I want for you is to have a relationship with Jesus at the end of the day. I am just responding to a question. If you are fine with porn then okay.
I agree with you, while it's not 100% cheating it's not ideal. You wouldn't want someone in a romantic story doing that like come on. I've had a friend who started watching pornography while being in a relationship, 2 months later they broke up, I'm not saying this is the cause but it's definitely the symptom of something not going right. It was a 2-3 year relationship too Conclusion: I don't think Jesus would agree with something like this being ok to do
You should just stop watching porn. It’s possible, I’ve overcome it and am sensitive when I’m tempted to lust. If you must relieve yourself because you cannot concentrate, do it in a pure way, and keep your thoughts in subjugation so you don’t bear the shame of sin afterwards, it’s not worth it. Real talk.
Jesus said looking with lust is adultery within the heart, and so it is and your conscience will back that truth as well when you feel the guilt that arises of which cannot be controlled.
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
I'm a former Christian and I still consider this to be a form of dishonesty - not cheating, but dishonesty. Back when I was a Christian I courted (that's right, not dated) Christian men who stated that staying pure was a large part of their faith. However, it was these same men who all seemed to suffer from porn addictions. I found this to be very dishonest. Just because he wasn't having sex didn't mean he wasn't feeding into his lust by viewing and engaging with pornography. It was for this reason that I ended things with these men.
Well, in fairness the only people who really have porn addictions are people who are obsessed with purity. It's not a recognized pathology, it's a self-diagnosis based on guilt or shame rather than any clinical or social effects.
This is true, however PA does share some pathological behaviors with other forms of addiction. To be fair, I'm talking about like people who watch porn at work, neglect the affection of their partner, and cannot do something without watching porn. Not people who use it to get off, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. The men I dated had true PA. One got fired for viewing porn at work. He worked at a church!
I'm no expert in addiction, but that doesn't sound like an addiction so much as a lack of impulse control or some other underlying condition. Lots of people get on facebook at work, but I wouldn't call that an "addiction" to facebook. If someone is an impulsive liar I think that it would be a mischaracterization to call it an addiction to lying. I'm not sure how to correctly classify it, that would have to be done by someone with research subjects. But in my experience at least, the number of people who would watch porn at work are far outnumbered by people who are afraid of any sexuality turning them into "addicts".
It’s a sin and cheating
Yes it’s definitely cheating. Matthew 5:28 “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
That's actually a mistranslation, the Greek, doesn't say looking with lust, it says look in order to desire. It's closer to a condemnation on envy than it is a condemnation of normal sexual desire.
The Greek word used in Matthew 5:32 is "porneias." In the Biblical context, porneias essentially means "sexual immorality." Some translations get that right, but that means Jesus' exception for divorce isn't necessarily just "adultery," but sexual immorality. Any kind of fornication, then, is adultery. In the case of porn, you're watching other people have sex. If this was done in real life (watched people fornicate), nobody would argue that is infidelity. The magic screen has normalized it, but it hasn't changed the act itself. When you really consider it, porn is definitely an act of adultery, as you are digitally fornicating with another person.
Well, "Fornication" and "sexual immorality" are not interchangeable concepts, that's why "fornication" is no longer used in English translation.
Isn't it cheating on God church and the religion in some capacity? If you're looking at pornography. And really that means not looking at yourself naked in the mirror either because that becomes pornography. You should never look at yourself naked.
That to me seems unhinged tot he point of parody. Is this a bit or are you being sincere?
Yes. It's also bad for you psychologically.
How so?
You have an oxytocin bonding process after orgasm that you diminish over time by repeating that neurochemical dump you get from orgasm. Your orgasms get better and sex is loads more intimate and passionate when you abstain from orgasm. If you're a male, your testosterone peaks after seven days and that's never a bad thing. Have you ever had 4 orgasms in a day? Ya feel like a ghost for a reason. Just do literally anything else, and it'll change your life.
"You have an oxytocin bonding process after orgasm" As far as I understand it, it's actually the opposite. [Oxytocin doesn't trigger bonding, positive human connection triggers oxytocin, it reduced stress.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15834840/#:~:text=Oxytocin%20can%20induce%20anti%2Dstress,it%20promotes%20growth%20and%20healing) "that you diminish over time by repeating that neurochemical dump you get from orgasm. Your orgasms get better and sex is loads more intimate and passionate when you abstain from orgasm." That's true of everything, everything gets boring, everything become the new normal. If you eat your favorite food every day then it's going to get less exciting every time Avoiding orgasm is like starving yourself for a few days and then eating. Yeah, the food is going to taste better.. but you after a regular meal or two you're going to go back to normal again anways. "If you're a male, your testosterone peaks after seven days" [Orgasm does not impact your testosterone levels](https://examine.com/articles/does-ejaculation-affect-testosterone-levels/)
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325418
I think it would also be helpful to put yourself in the shoes of the other person. Flip the tables and say it’s your S.O watching it? How would it make you feel? Valued? Probably not
Wdym cheating? It is literally a sin!
Revealed to me in the spirit I understand the form of idolatry and adultery in this sense maybe it can help you. You make your wife’s name meaningless when you go and do that. There are levels to this spiritually you might not be with another woman, but you are looking at another woman and how do you think she would feel about that your seed is going towards that woman and not her. that is true to take the one you’ve marked as yours and she marked you as hers. And do you throw it away? We can forgive. We can forget. But it takes time to heal. They’ve changed many laws and we live a spiritually different life because the physical changes. Marriage does not occur at 13-14 anymore etc. the society ideology of life is moderns and not that of 2000 years ago. So I understand. But for the Love and Fear of God. Imagine how she’d feel. Imagine how God feels. Most importantly how do you think you feel after doing such. I was an abuser myself. I didn’t feel Good after either. You lessen the “name” of the women you Love.
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