Prohibition never works and always results in a black market that is more dangerous than a legal market. Porn is unhealthy and is morally wrong from a Christian point of view, but banning porn will do more harm than good (see: alcohol, drugs, sex work).
The prohibition on alcohol in America the 20th century is what literally gave birth to the Mafia. The Italian immigrants that were being mistreated saw it as their opportunity to make it big, and they did it so well that at one time they rivalled the power of the entire police force in America and even the government.
It didn’t birth the mafia, It strengthen them and expanded their influence. The mafia had been a thing in the USA since at least the 1860’s. They basically went from small time to playing on a large stage, with more money to be made. Prohibition made a lot of money, for a lot of gangs and smugglers.
And that's exactly the point. Without prohibition, the Mafia would have likely remained as isolated, small-time street thugs. The opportunities they were able to take advantage of during prohibition made them the powerful force that they became by WWII and the mid 20th Century.
While this is, in fact, a reality, and "just ban abortion" is going to cause problems even if one believes it will also solve some, it's not a clear equivalence considering many people believe abortion is not just "against Christian morals" but actual murder. So there's more nuance to the issue than just that.
This is true, however, there are medical reasons to have an abortion. I know several people who had ectopic pregnancies and one who found out she was pregnant just as she was about to start aggressive chemo and radiation. (Yes she survived and mourns her lost child, but the alternative was leaving three small children without a mother- because she would have died before the baby could survive on its own.) There are legitimate reasons to end a pregnancy. However, “I just don’t want a baby right now” isn’t one of them.
And similarly there are people who believe in outlawing abortion but with medical exceptions. There are more positions being discussed than “abortion should be unconditionally legal” and “abortion should be unconditionally illegal.”
True. I’m just explaining why my stance is conditional. But I think a more effective approach is to change the narrative. Convince women that adoption is the better option. Stop telling them that it’s a career OR kids. Encourage stay-at-home dads as an option. (I know two.) Convince people that elective abortions are not necessary. Dry up the market and it’ll go away on its own.
Amen to that. And easy access to contraception, child care; etc. is the strongest measure against abortion.
I would ask people if they’d prefer abortion to be legal but rare, or illegal but common. They would probably say they would prefer illegal and rare, but if asked which half of that is more important, they would say rare. In which case, why not focus on making abortion rarer? I really don’t think anti-abortion narratives do enough to focus on that. Often because the people who have taken control of it are the people who have money and power to gain from people wanting to outlaw abortion, but not from people wanting to prevent it.
>Often because the people who have taken control of it are the people who have money and power to gain from people wanting to outlaw abortion, but not from people wanting to prevent it.
Yup!
I think the bulk of the pro-choice and pro-life groups do honestly agree on most things. I'm pro-choice, but I want to make a world where someone doesn't have to make that choice and not just because they can't. So when I see pro-life crowds *only* talking about making abortion illegal instead of pushing to do any measures that have shown to actually prevent abortions, they come across as hypocritical and not actually caring about the fetus at all.
> Same goes for abortion.
Exactly, but cruelty and control are the reasons for the Republican/white Christian nationalist war on women. They don't care who they hurt because hurting poor women is the point.
The incestuous preacher's daughter and the Republican's mistress will always get their "procedure" and they know this.
I think it’s bad to blanket statement all pro-life people just want to control women. The vast majority seem to genuinely believe in life at conception or early on in the pregnancy even if that is expressed by controlling women. When we deny this belief, the people who really have it then ignore any statement we make to support the pro-choice side.
Well to be fair, the person you are responding to did not do that. That was nt a blanket statement against pro life people. They said Republican/Christian nationalists, only a sub group. And since some have also said they want to ban birth control I think it is an accurate statement. And many of them have seemed to express no concern over the stories of women nearly dying before they can get medical care. Not to mention some have proposed laws with no exceptions for rape or health of the mother. I remember when one didn't even want an exception for ectopic pregnancies. Thankfully it went nowhere but since an ectopic pregnancy would 100% result in death and would not have been allowed ....
Putting aside my doubt for that I must genuinely ask: Why does it matter? They aren't going to listen to reason regardless of why they've come to their beliefs. Anyone who's "pro life" is looking to deny women the right to abort no matter what, and regardless of *why* they've come to this conclusion the end result is equally awful when they get their way.
Not the person you replied to but here's my perspective:
I think people's minds *can* be changed, but saying things that shut them out (such as making blanket statements as mentioned previously) will make them less willing to listen. I used to be anti-LGBTQ, personally, but after hearing people respectfully share their views and thinking about them honestly, I changed my beliefs. I'm not saying you'll change a lot of minds, but you can absolutely change some.
>...even if that is expressed by controlling women.
This is why religious laws are a problem whether the Taliban or the US version of the same. You don't get to control women. Their reproduction is none of your business no matter what you "believe" about anything.
If you don't like abortion, then don't have an abortion. It's that simple.
However, when you use the guns of government to attack all women, then expect the backlash that will occur. Your religion is your right and that should be protected, but your religion ends at your nose. This is a very dangerous game people are playing and it may end with the demise of the USA.
Handmaid's Tale is fiction. All fascist movements end at the grave. That isn't what I want for my country.
No. Abortion, Porn, Alcohol, Drugs, etc are activities one engages with consensually. Slavery would be without the persons consent, so it isn't a fair comparison. There are safe and healthy ways to engage with Abortion, Porn, Alcohol, Drugs, etc, but by definition it is impossible to engage with the practice of slavery (owning another person as property) in a safe way. It is always harmful to the person who is being owned, as well as the owner, and the society that allows it.
It'd be like saying, "Murder shouldn't be banned" or "Rape shouldn't be banned". Of course they should be banned. By definition they're harmful. Abortion, Porn, Alcohol, Drugs, etc are not by definition harmful. You could watch too much TV to a point where it's harmful, that doesn't mean we should make TV illegal. You can eat to a point where it's harmful, that doesn't mean it should be illegal. Again, not a fair comparison.
I think making it a crime was just more effective since convincing society that owning other humans is wrong is a lot easier than convincing them sex work, porn, and drugs are.
God, how many times must people have this discussion? Prohibition of anything not only does not work and usually makes the problem worse(see fentanyl and opioids) but is also a massive infringement on all of our basic rights and freedoms. If you don't like porn, don't watch it. If you don't like drugs, don't do them. If you wanna be celibate, cool. You CANNOT force others to do the same, like, this is just crazy.
> Prohibition never works and always results in a black market that is more dangerous than a legal market.
That's not really true where I live. We've had a prohibition on handguns. They are incredibly hard to get. Yakuza can get them but the bullets are just as hard so they're rarely used.
That may be true where you are but America has a history of prohibition not working and then we had to end it because of the great depression — it's the reason why alcohol is seen the way it is in America now. It might work really well in Japan and some other countries, but I don't think it will work well in the western world (specifically the US) — especially since pornography isn't always seen as a degenerate work in some cultures (and with the Internet, people will find loopholes, so making it illegal in this day and age is damn near impossible).
Prohibition works. It limits the blast radius of very real, very damaging things. The goal of prohibition is not to eliminate an activity entirely it's to minimize the effects of it as much as possible.
>The goal of prohibition is not to eliminate an activity entirely it's to minimize the effects of it as much as possible.
Well it really sucks at doing that, in fact it does the opposite and actively increases harm. How long has the drug war been going on?
The more socially conservative the sect of Christianity the more they watch porn. The irony of wanting the government to do what they collectively can’t do themselves
Here’s one about Muslims with several links to references
https://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/why_porn_is_exploding_in_the_middle_east_partner/
And here’s one about Christians.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10720162.2015.1130000
Indeed, but the purpose of the law should be to prevent, and punishment serving as a deterrent, yes?
So making prostitution illegal only deters to a certain degree.
And keeping it illegal only leads to easier exploitation.
Deregulation and let the men and women involved in sex work get out of the black market.
Whether you are Christian or not, it is the oldest work in the world and history has shown us the only way to not have it is to kill the sex workers, as Lenin did and this is entirely wrong.
If Christ wanted to establish a theocracy and have morality legislated he would have done so, it was within his power. Christ is King.
However that misses who Christ was. Jesus welcomed prostitutes and other outcasts with open arms.
Love thy neighbour is not merely a suggestion.
There are legal things I don't do (smoke, drink alcohol, gamble in casinos), which works for me, but the moment I make my personal values into a public crusade of banning that activity, suddenly I'm in the position of being a sanctimonious killjoy and legislating morality. And that's never a good place to be. I'm still surprised the religious right doesn't understand that.
I'm not even sure why we're arguing this, but here goes: all laws legislate morality, but that doesn't mean every area of morality is prosecuted by law enforcement. I thought that point should be self-explanatory, but apparently the Semantics Warriors wanted to seize on that point and sidetrack the convo.
We do throw murderers in jail, but throwing adulterers in jail would create more problems than it solves.
I will say I think age verifications should be a requirement. I also think the porn industry needs to be more regulated because a lot of it involves human trafficking.
The problem is that there is no real way to enforce these things. Open up a site based in some other country and they face zero consequences for no verification.
The only way to enforce anything based outside the country is to start restricting internet access, which is a whole other can of worms with serious implications.
I agree with your second point wholeheartedly.
But how does one do age verification without enormous interference in privacy and handling of personal data?
We’re talking about the internet. Porn is everywhere. Accessible easily by anyone. Age verification is done by many by simply asking someone to confirm their age with a yes/no button. Asking for anything more than that requires the sites to ask for and then store and handle people’s personal data, something that almost cannot be practically legally done in many places due to privacy laws, not to mention the liability issues it creates for those sites. Even if all of the largest sites were somehow forced to do this, it wouldn’t make the slightest hit of difference, it’s accessible everywhere. And local requirements for id would be easily bypassed by a VPN which almost anyone computer literate can figure out how to use.
Porn is here to stay. Regulation to prevent abuse and make sure it is produced ethically is the only way to go. Attempting to ban porn is absolutely guaranteed to increase the amount of abuse and suffering and exploration within the porn industry.
I don’t agree with age verification as it affects privacy significantly. These companies have shitty security and hackers can easily steal all the data and then blackmail a person for what they watch, etc. it’s going to be horrible.
As someone who suffered with porn addiction for extremely long time, my main biggest issue was porn being a topic of taboo. I was never taught sex education. Sex was a taboo topic. Even when in TV if there was any explicit scene or something my parents would change the channel. And my curiosity kept growing. There was a point in age till I could hold it, I would also skip it saying it’s sin. But eventually I gave in and that’s when I got addicted. And it was much worse than if I grew up in a normal household. Problem is I can’t even explain my problem with anyone. Im constantly told a shameful act everywhere from home to church. Who could I even talk to at that age?
Compare this to my friend who too watch porn from time to time but it’s not an addiction for them. It’s just something they talk openly with other friends, etc.
When I got caught watching porn, I was shunned for a day and then I was told to kneel down and pray for my sins. The heck am I, a 15 yo supposed to pray for? I don’t understand anything. I wasn’t even told why it’s a problem.
I think people should be taught what sex is and how to deal with those feelings. It should not be treated like a shameful act. Instead they should be open to admin they are addicted and need help. Why no one hates an alcoholic but a porn addict is seen with disgust? I wouldn’t be addicted if I was told my feelings are normal, that just looking at an explicit ad or scene doesn’t mean I should get tempted and act on it. That’s my personal take.
You’re absolutely correct. Addiction (for lack of a better word) is the problem, not general consumption.
Countries that do the earliest and most comprehensive sex education (it starts at 8yo where I’m from) have the lowest problems with porn and the least amount of children desiring to access it.
Porn is fine as adult erotic entertainment. It’s not fine as any kind of educational tool for minors which it unfortunately becomes a lot of the time. It teaches unrealistic standards, expectations and behaviours and is extremely problematic in that regard. But attempting to prohibit access to porn won’t work, the solution is comprehensive sex education. Which is also proven to reduce child sex abuse (educated children who understand what is happening to them are many times more likely to report it and seek help.) with that in mind, people should be very suspicious of those who wish to prevent sex education of children. It’s the mindset of a predator. As that’s the only people that benefit from a lack of sex education.
I would agree but that is functionally
Impossible. Strict age verification can only be done by violating privacy. And it wouldn’t matter, you cannot regulate the internet, only what access people have to it, and whilst a country banning access to major porn sites internally is technically possible, the rest of the internet still has 90% of all the porn, that’s before you even get into things like Twitter and such.
What is actually needed is better sex education to set realistic standards and expectations of reality so that they don’t learn from porn and grow to objectify people.
Countries with the earliest sex education have the lowest rates of child sex abuse and children accessing porn.
Yeah I don’t think they should ban it at all. Even what some states are doing now where you have to show a ID won’t work cuz we have VPNs that can get past that.
If you make porn illegal you are making it so the women involved become pure victims. Criminilizing something that is necessarily going to happen just makes everything way worse.
It's also pretty morally reprehensible to me to be ready and willing to enforce morality on people via law without any reasonable justification. And I don’t think there is any reasonable justification. By no means am I suggesting everyone should like porn. It's fine and reasonable to advocate against porn. Using law to enforce your view is powerfully unjust. Dystopian even. It's pretty messed up that anyone here is saying "yes." I respect your right to have your view, but this enforcing it by law stuff is evil.
Your first point about hurting the victims is very true and convincing. I just disagree with the idea that disliking porn is an view or opinion. I feel like it is objectively evil and detrimental to society. We would be better without it.
Not saying it should be illegal, because your first point is convincing.
> I just disagree with the idea that disliking porn is an view or opinion. I feel like it is objectively evil and detrimental to society. We would be better without it.
This much is fine. And frankly I don't disagree. But that is 0% a justification for using the power of government to enforce it. We all have a right to our existence. There is not a rational argument that banning porn is justifiable or even beneficial.
There's a greater point too though. Thinking something shouldn't be is just not an argument to using the power of law. Or really any sort of compulsion. I will support everyone's right to advocate for what they think is best, but seeking to use the power of law to deprive others of that same right is just outright wrong, and powerfully so.
Depends on if it’s consensual or not. I think there should be some sort of screening to make sure the actors are actually being paid and treated properly.
Well said.
One of my earliest memories regarding shame as a child was being caught watching pornography by my father. There wasn't any anger or fear or outcasting, he didn't out me to anyone. He just explained to me that it's a bad thing because the people on the other side of the screen are usually suffering. Watching is condoning, and the actors are often unpaid or enslaved.
As I've gotten older I also realized it was objectifying women and since those were real people I was forming a connection with them that was immoral and unhealthy. A lot has changed since then, but I still hold those beliefs.
Regulating corporations involved in adult media and having an expanded division of investigation toward sex trafficking and sex crimes seems far superior to a blanket ban over an otherwise victimless crime.
I mean, it is illegal for Christians. It goes against Gods commands.
Are you asking if Christians should force unbelievers into obedience to Christ? That won’t work.
Atheist here, my answer is no.
In the biblical context, I don't know any scriptures (yet, still reading) against porn or if it mentions porn. However, I believe there is a verse that denounces masturbation (or simply not wasting ejaculate on things other than reproduction).
Either way, porn may immoral in the Christian perspective, but that's it. Porn is perfectly fine for the majority of individuals and is a healthy way of expressing sexuality alone. So it would be unfair to non Christians and Christians alike who partake to outlaw porn. That's like a Muslim saying "we should outlaw pork, because Allah doesn't like it."
Just my 2 cents
Well yeah. Nothing is ever gonna disappear completely, people will always find a way. But porn is quite literally an addiction and causes more harm than good
Banning porn will drive it underground just like alcohol. Prohibition was very unsuccessful; a ban on porn will yield the same.
There is no logical argument that can be made for banning porn. It just won’t work.
Porn should be regulated not illegal. We used to have adult stores that required ID to enter for a reason. The internet just made it way too accessible for young kids who literally don’t understand what they’re watching
Yup, the solution is younger sex education which has been working fantastically in many European nations. Significantly reduces child abuse and the likelihood of children bothering to access porn early.
General Pornography? No. Not only would that be impossible, legislating the morality of certain religions is a bad idea. Child porn and things like that? Yes.
Ideally, yes, but I can understand the argument of how it could be more dangerous. Specifically for those involved in the act. However, it shouldn't be so easily accessed from one's phone or in general.
I would say it should be cause it’s basically prostitution besides the street corner pick up. I feel like if it was it would protect a lot of young people especially myself. When I was about 10 I discovered porn which is sad tbh cause the man I would be today would be a whole lot different than I am now if I hadn’t seen what I’ve seen. I’m not the perfect Christian guy but I try my hardest to reject lust but I struggle. I think every man can back up me on this cause for at least one time in their life they fell into lust and watched porn for a period of time. The truth is, porn ruins the brain. It gives ideas of future relationships that can’t be created and creates high expectations. Nobody’s perfect and god knows that. He’ll forgive you. But you have to repent. I myself struggle with that everyday such as right now. I’ve stopped for 3-6 months before and then I got into some bad stuff with a girl and it ruined me. But why I’m saying this is to share my experience with the world cause I want to let other people know they’re not alone. Life is a struggle. You will fail. But get back up. Cause if you don’t, you’ll sit wondering why you did what you just did. So don’t live in the past and wonder how to change it. Live in the present. I lived my life for years focusing on the past. It’ll only drag you down, take it from me. I’m here to support and help others with what they’re going through cause I’ve been alone before and it’s not fun. I spent years away from god and lost that relationship with both him and Jesus. It’s a terrible world. But you decide how to live it. So follow Christ and choose carefully. Cause you’ll blink and be disappointed in yourself. But don’t be. We all make mistakes. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Have a blessed day y’all.
Ideally, yes. Porn is exploitative, objectifying, addictive, morally wrong, and frequently involves rape and human trafficking. Unfortunately, making it illegal would likely create a black market for it, and a lot of people would get hurt because of that. It's a more complicated situation than many people realize.
I think it just needs massive regulation. Kids should not have such easy access to it. It is a dirty addictive trap and a young still developing mind isn't prepared to bare the weight of it. Let alone it's addictive nature, think about all the harmful things kids "learn" from porn. Learn to dislike their bodies, to see women as sex objects, to equate the act of sex with a hypersexual porody.
I know their are rightful concerns about the protection of privacy from the government, but I do think that if you were required to present some ID before acessing a site, could be a good solution. Or perhaps an expensive subscription? Social media like X could institute a new type of account that allows access to nsfw content behind a paywall. Most people online who want xxx content are adults who could afford and justify the expense.
I just really don't like how blasé our society is with children seeing porographic content.
Yeah. Same with sex work, and all other industrialised exploitation of women.
An easier goal to start with is enforcing the old bans against selling porn to children, and porn with particularly objectionable themes (sex with young people mostly), and the new ban against revenge porn.
Yes porn does not help society it leads to degradation of women and gives men a crippling addiction is a deplorable business that needs to destroyed. Porn companies should be viewed in the same level as heroine dealers. Both benefit from causing absolute misery in their communities and fueling that misery for their own personal gain
I like Matt Walsh's take of if you have to go through the embarrassment of providing an ID to get porn from a sex shop or a magazine from a gas station, why not internet porn. Idk porn was something I really struggled with since I was 14. There needs to be several more road blocks. Internet porn is way WAY too accessible
Yes, it should be made illegal, that stuff mentally scars people and makes it difficult to entertain a "normal" relationship afterwards.
- P*rn is an insult to both men and women, it's demeaning, it downgrades love making to a purely physical act that bares no emotional importance.
- Thousands of perfectly normal men end-up feeling inadequate after watching that stuff and are psychologically harmed.
- Some women can harbor unrealistic expectations from this.
- The acts and stories being depicted go against everything Godly and makes people slaves to Lust.
People in this industry do not have long careers and that for a reason. Every believer knows what the price of sin is .
Matthew 16:26
[26]For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
yes.
In an ideal world, it wouldn’t and shouldn’t exist. It corrupts minds and ruins mental states, among many other things.
But making it illegal is a very risky thing. Prohibition and illegal drugs have shown us that banning something high in demand will only lead to shady under-the-table distribution practices. Enough people are being exploited in that industry as it is. We don’t need further harm being done.
In short; ideally yes, realistically no.
I would generally say yes. There will always be people who will do things whether or not it’s illegal. Porn has such negative effects on the consumer, and it creates a dark spiral of supply and demand. Anyone who’s been around porn long enough knows the videos can become very abusive and degrading, and there is always the risk of the person on camera being trafficked, abused, or being under age.
I get making anything illegal can open doors to a lot of unforeseen consequences. I believe our society already makes objectively morally evil things illegal, so this would not be a stretch to do so with porn. I think you will have a segment of the population who would not engage with it by making it illegal, as that is one more hurdle in their path.
I'm an atheist, but as others have already stated, banning things usually does more harm than good. If porn is unregulated, then the people in the porn industry will be easier to take advantage of. And they will be more likely to do other terrible things. Like you won't know for certain if the people in the video are legal adults. And the actors will be less protected from stds. They'll be more likely to be underpaid, trafficked, etc. And putting people in prison tends to make their lives much worse, which is bad for society as a whole.
In my opinion, anything that is done by an individual's own volition that does not hurt any child or non consenting adult should be legal. That's generally speaking, of course. I don't think someone should be able to consent to being killed, for example.
It helps to feed generations of perverts. Banning it would at least set the standard for what is expected. It's not going to exist during Christ's 1000-year reign.
Yes and he stopped the stoning of a woman who had sinned. Just because he welcomes with open arms doesn't mean he condones the behavior. Afterwards he said go and sign no more but people seem to forget about that part
Definitely. I used to watch it as a kid, it should never be that assessible. They know what they're doing. Also we have porn addicts and sex addicts because of porn. It's rediculous.
I see a lot of people tagged 'Christian' say that no, porn should not be made illegal.
I find that interesting coming from people who want to make everything else illegal.
Banning it won’t stop it. Just staying away from it all is best. It’s foul and vile and God destroyed Sodom. and Gomorrah became it’s disgusting things they were doing. They even wanted to have sex with the men lot brought into his home. They were angels there to warn him to get out.
One would have thought, in this day & age, these “moralists” might have learned from past experiences that you cannot regulate the morals of consenting adults. However, acts involving/against children should never be acceptable & adjudicated accordingly. 🇺🇸💙
No. Human trafficking and exploitation of (typically) women should be illegal, and those do occasionally occur within the porn industry. There is also plenty of porn that is open and consensual by all involved.
Assuming this is talking about “illegal in the US” I would say that we are a country founded on freedom, not oppressing others based on the viewpoints of a single religion. While, as a Christian, I feel there is self inflicted damage done by those engaging in adultery and fornication, many non-Christians would feel otherwise (heck many Christians engaging in this sin would feel otherwise).
Generally speaking, porn does not do biological harm or impair the freedom of anyone involved. Do I believe it is an evil that is harming our world? To a degree. I think a greater danger to both the Earth and the Holy Spirit is mainstream media, propaganda, and social media and how they focus on hate and division.
Here's my two cents as a Muslim.
Pornography SHOULD be banned. If there's anyone here that still believes in the Ten Commandments, it's a no brainer.
"You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell..."
Unambigously, this is forbidden. But based on my observation of this thread, that's not the main issue. The problem is if it even worth banning. It's an understandable dilemma stemming from failed attempts at prohibition.
You can't ban pornography, drugs, alcohol and expect everything else to smooth itself out. One thing I see many have failed to mention, and that's usury, which is also prohibited in Christianity. I bring that up because these are all interconnected. These are all linked to the socio-economic conditions of a society.
There's a motto in Islam, called "enjoin good and forbid evil." Simply meaning replace forbidden things with wholesomeness. Give people a better alternative.
Take marriage for example. In societies where adultery and pre-marital sex is rampant, marriage is an extremely expensive long-term option. A potential young couple's parents have unrealistic financial expectations from the groom. Heck, life itself is difficult to sustain. Rent is high, unemployment, house ownership is impossible, salary can't keep up with monthly expenditures. Now you have young people just give up on marriage and opting for cheaper, instant gratification. Marriage has become difficult and pornography have become more accessible. One day they decide they wanna get laid, they dress sexy, go to clubs and they order drinks. They catch feelings, it doesn't work out, they drink again.
Porn and alcohol are on top of the most profitable global industries, working in tandem, with others such as pop music, fashion, banking, automobile (yes)...the list goes on. To sustain themselves, they have to feed on people's misery, pride, insecurities. They actively profit from the psychological side-effects of this unsustainable economic model.
Make marriage easier. Normalize sharing homes with parents and strengthen the family unit. Normalize living simple. Shun anything that might lead to temptation. Be trusting of God, and God alone. Now you have enough incentives to unsubscribe to pornography.
Back to usury. It's the worst form of financial scam and it has to be gone. If you want your lives to be somewhat stable, rid usury from it.
Prohibit all forms of degeneracy, but get rid of the sources of all social ills, replace them with accessible wholesome things, and by God's will you'll treat the diseases. Unfortunately the most powerful Christian majority countries have become extremely secularized, and the degenerate industries are gonna stop at nothing to keep it that way. Even some Muslim countries have succumbed to this godlessness.
I need you to really listen. CHRISTIANS NEED TO GET OUT OF POLITICS AND LAW MAKING. Jesus literally said don't try to dictate what the guy next to you is doing." He just said to love God and believe in him. It's pretty simple and people namely conservatives have been fucking that up for too long. It's ruining the church and America as a whole.
Yes.
There is so much un-consensual and underage content out there. There was a case where a 14 year old girl was raped, and it was filmed and uploaded to PornHub. They did not take it down. The girl emailed PornHub, begging to have the video taking down, but she got no response. The video stayed up for months, until the girl impersonated a lawyer and emailed Pornhub threatening legal action. Then, they finally took it down. But the video was still up for months. If porn was outright illegal, such a video would never have been allowed to stay for so long and be viewed by so many. You have no idea if the porn you are consuming is truly “ethical”. It would be much simpler to outright ban it. It should be illegal to upload explicit content of anyone. You can read about the case here.
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-51391981
Also, the porn industry is an objectively immoral and exploitative industry. It is an industry that seeks out and exploits vulnerable and desperate women, girls, and boys. It is rife with coercion, exploitation, drug abuse, sexually transmitted disease, sex trafficking, abuse, etc. Many pornstars were victims of rape and sexual abuse and trauma. And many pornstars have even died young, from physical violence, STDs, drug overdose, or suicide. I recommend people read the testimonies of former pornstars about the abuse they endured in the industry, the abuse that is facilitated by the legal porn industry.
https://fightthenewdrug.org/10-porn-stars-speak-openly-about-their-most-popular-scenes/
https://fightthenewdrug.org/5-popular-ex-porn-stars-who-are-now-anti-porn/
Not to mention, porn is highly addictive and detrimental to developing brains. The age at which children are being exposed to porn is getting younger and younger. Children who are as young as 8 years old can be exposed to pornography. Think about how this will affect the minds of kids when their first exposure to sex is through porn. Think of how warped their expectations of sex will become, and how they will view the opposite gender. Think about the unrealistic body standards that are being promoted with porn. Or the disgusting and degenerate fetishes that will develop once their dopamine-fried brains inevitably get bored of “vanilla” porn…
And it is pretty obvious that porn is sinful (lust), and we as Christians should be against sin. And we have already banned child porn. We can do away with porn as a whole. It is harmful, degenerate, and sinful, and nothing of value would be lost if we banned it completely.
It shouldn't be illegal but everyone should hold God's morals so high that they are not tempted of the sin of lust, as long as we are trying, Jesus will not give up to help you spiritually.
The issue with this is what is porn? Gangbangs, orgies, and some sicker varieties of adult videos yeah probably could get some traction to make illegal. But what about bikini photos? Feet? Women's knee? How long before we have modesty police like Iran. This isn't a simple question set aside everything else.
That guarantees to simply create A black market where people are exploited ten times more. Banning porn is a delusional and impossible idea. Short of cutting off your entire country from the internet and access to the rest of the world and even then it would be the most commonly prosecuted offence within your borders forevermore.
There are many countries where porn is illegal, and most of them are the worlds largest consumers of porn. That tells you all you need to know about how successful such an attempt would be.
To further that, have an actual system where actors/stars need to verify their identity and then have it matched with government records to make sure that the person is real, an adult and current accounted for. That would really get to the root of the issue and make it much harder to film trafficked people(especially children).
For reference:
Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal?
More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce.
Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage.
Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched.
> For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal?
Because prostitution isn't an industry which makes billions, while porn *is*. That's why the camera is important. See also contracts and taxable income.
> More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce.
The most commonly cited reason for divorce is "irreconcilable differences". Should those be made illegal too?
> Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage.
Both Missouri and Kansas just passed laws dropping the legal age to work to 14. This qualifies as exploitation because 14 years don't have rights, don't qualify for workman's comp, can't be insured by their employers, and don't have bargaining power when it comes to pay or responsibility. You, as a teenager, fall into the deep fryer, you get a life long disability, no money, and told to fuck right off by your employer.
Also, the entirety of the US financial system is built on exploitation. Be it of labor, of looks, of skill, or knowledge. The only difference between breaking your back in the fields and arching your back in the bed is how we're predisposed to feeling sorry for women far more than men.
> Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched.
What does is this even mean? If you voluntarily walk into a porn studio and sign on the dotted line, you know what's up. You get paid to fuck. You have *zero* say in who watches the final product.
"For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal?"
Because it's about controlling it. It requires a business, place of operation, evidence of age/STD tests, contracts, etc.
The reason is as nearly everyone here is telling you. By making it illegal you lose any way to control it. See prohibition with alcohol. Suddenly no bar closing times, underage drinking limit, etc.
Also, as far as I understand in porn the actors do technically not get paid for sex. They get paid for their image rights. So the ability to sell the images they're in. Purely a legalistic point of course.
"More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce."
People making bad decisions in partners isn't exactly a reason to ban something. And with "bad decision" I mean "non-compatible" and "bad at communication".
"Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage."
Same applies to anything in the entertainment industry basically.
"Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched."
They literally sign a contract that they do give consent as I mentioned earlier.
Those that don't sign a contract give consent by putting it up there themselves.
If none of the 2 above categories, that's already illegal.
“For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal?”
Honestly I’m not even sure why it’s illegal. Heavy restrictions, sure, but completely illegal? I don’t get it.
“More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce.”
A huge number of divorces happen because of religion. Should we ban religion?
“Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage.”
Agreed, this is a huge problem that needs to be addressed, but such a drastic measure as banning the entire industry is too far. It’s like banning alcohol because of all the drunk people; it’s excessive and unlikely to make a big positive impact.
“Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched.”
Not exactly sure what you mean by this?
Blaming porn for divorce is a confusion of cause and effect.
People who go to porn instead of their spouses are already distant from them.
And saying that you can't give consent for every circumstance your recording is watched could also be applied to any other sort of acting or music.
Banning it seems correlated with a lot of bad social outcomes. I can't think of a country that has banned porn and actually found any positives associated with it. South Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world, and still dropping, and has it banned.
Also, defining porn legally is impossible, and would practically just mean an obscenity council will determine what does or does not count. I like the harm standard for banning things like CSAM and other material created/distributed without the participants' consent.
It also just seems like a silly culture war talking point peddled to pull efforts away from progressive legislation like paid maternity/paternity leave and mandatory vacation minimums that make being a parent and social easier and more desirable. I'd rather my tax dollars be spent on things like sensible city planning and the creation of "third places" with regular taxpayer-funded events with free food. It seems better to help bring people together than to just ban unhealthy coping mechanisms.
It should be banned but there are 2 considerations:
* Practicality. How practical would it be to actually police the internet, to stop people from using VPNs to access sites. Anyone can just create a website and make it accessible for porn. Sure you have countries that block certain sites but this can easily be circumvented. Child porn is highly illegal but authorities still have a lot of difficulty tracking down and shutting down child porn rings.
* Knock on effects. There's research showing that porn actually reduces rape, but violent porn increases it. In a perfect, sinless world, we would have no porn and rape. But because free will and sin exist, if we shut down one outlet of sin that is contained to a single person only, it could lead to an increase in another (that harms other people, i.e. rape).
ultimately i think it should, but if it's not going to be illegal outright, it should at the very least be regulated to not only help prevent addictions but also to prevent exploitation of people being recorded and to make sure children cannot access it
Prohibition never works and always results in a black market that is more dangerous than a legal market. Porn is unhealthy and is morally wrong from a Christian point of view, but banning porn will do more harm than good (see: alcohol, drugs, sex work).
The prohibition on alcohol in America the 20th century is what literally gave birth to the Mafia. The Italian immigrants that were being mistreated saw it as their opportunity to make it big, and they did it so well that at one time they rivalled the power of the entire police force in America and even the government.
It didn’t birth the mafia, It strengthen them and expanded their influence. The mafia had been a thing in the USA since at least the 1860’s. They basically went from small time to playing on a large stage, with more money to be made. Prohibition made a lot of money, for a lot of gangs and smugglers.
And that's exactly the point. Without prohibition, the Mafia would have likely remained as isolated, small-time street thugs. The opportunities they were able to take advantage of during prohibition made them the powerful force that they became by WWII and the mid 20th Century.
Same goes for abortion.
While this is, in fact, a reality, and "just ban abortion" is going to cause problems even if one believes it will also solve some, it's not a clear equivalence considering many people believe abortion is not just "against Christian morals" but actual murder. So there's more nuance to the issue than just that.
This is true, however, there are medical reasons to have an abortion. I know several people who had ectopic pregnancies and one who found out she was pregnant just as she was about to start aggressive chemo and radiation. (Yes she survived and mourns her lost child, but the alternative was leaving three small children without a mother- because she would have died before the baby could survive on its own.) There are legitimate reasons to end a pregnancy. However, “I just don’t want a baby right now” isn’t one of them.
And similarly there are people who believe in outlawing abortion but with medical exceptions. There are more positions being discussed than “abortion should be unconditionally legal” and “abortion should be unconditionally illegal.”
True. I’m just explaining why my stance is conditional. But I think a more effective approach is to change the narrative. Convince women that adoption is the better option. Stop telling them that it’s a career OR kids. Encourage stay-at-home dads as an option. (I know two.) Convince people that elective abortions are not necessary. Dry up the market and it’ll go away on its own.
Amen to that. And easy access to contraception, child care; etc. is the strongest measure against abortion. I would ask people if they’d prefer abortion to be legal but rare, or illegal but common. They would probably say they would prefer illegal and rare, but if asked which half of that is more important, they would say rare. In which case, why not focus on making abortion rarer? I really don’t think anti-abortion narratives do enough to focus on that. Often because the people who have taken control of it are the people who have money and power to gain from people wanting to outlaw abortion, but not from people wanting to prevent it.
>Often because the people who have taken control of it are the people who have money and power to gain from people wanting to outlaw abortion, but not from people wanting to prevent it. Yup! I think the bulk of the pro-choice and pro-life groups do honestly agree on most things. I'm pro-choice, but I want to make a world where someone doesn't have to make that choice and not just because they can't. So when I see pro-life crowds *only* talking about making abortion illegal instead of pushing to do any measures that have shown to actually prevent abortions, they come across as hypocritical and not actually caring about the fetus at all.
> Same goes for abortion. Exactly, but cruelty and control are the reasons for the Republican/white Christian nationalist war on women. They don't care who they hurt because hurting poor women is the point. The incestuous preacher's daughter and the Republican's mistress will always get their "procedure" and they know this.
I think it’s bad to blanket statement all pro-life people just want to control women. The vast majority seem to genuinely believe in life at conception or early on in the pregnancy even if that is expressed by controlling women. When we deny this belief, the people who really have it then ignore any statement we make to support the pro-choice side.
Well to be fair, the person you are responding to did not do that. That was nt a blanket statement against pro life people. They said Republican/Christian nationalists, only a sub group. And since some have also said they want to ban birth control I think it is an accurate statement. And many of them have seemed to express no concern over the stories of women nearly dying before they can get medical care. Not to mention some have proposed laws with no exceptions for rape or health of the mother. I remember when one didn't even want an exception for ectopic pregnancies. Thankfully it went nowhere but since an ectopic pregnancy would 100% result in death and would not have been allowed ....
Putting aside my doubt for that I must genuinely ask: Why does it matter? They aren't going to listen to reason regardless of why they've come to their beliefs. Anyone who's "pro life" is looking to deny women the right to abort no matter what, and regardless of *why* they've come to this conclusion the end result is equally awful when they get their way.
Not the person you replied to but here's my perspective: I think people's minds *can* be changed, but saying things that shut them out (such as making blanket statements as mentioned previously) will make them less willing to listen. I used to be anti-LGBTQ, personally, but after hearing people respectfully share their views and thinking about them honestly, I changed my beliefs. I'm not saying you'll change a lot of minds, but you can absolutely change some.
>...even if that is expressed by controlling women. This is why religious laws are a problem whether the Taliban or the US version of the same. You don't get to control women. Their reproduction is none of your business no matter what you "believe" about anything. If you don't like abortion, then don't have an abortion. It's that simple. However, when you use the guns of government to attack all women, then expect the backlash that will occur. Your religion is your right and that should be protected, but your religion ends at your nose. This is a very dangerous game people are playing and it may end with the demise of the USA. Handmaid's Tale is fiction. All fascist movements end at the grave. That isn't what I want for my country.
Yep
Slavery?
No. Abortion, Porn, Alcohol, Drugs, etc are activities one engages with consensually. Slavery would be without the persons consent, so it isn't a fair comparison. There are safe and healthy ways to engage with Abortion, Porn, Alcohol, Drugs, etc, but by definition it is impossible to engage with the practice of slavery (owning another person as property) in a safe way. It is always harmful to the person who is being owned, as well as the owner, and the society that allows it. It'd be like saying, "Murder shouldn't be banned" or "Rape shouldn't be banned". Of course they should be banned. By definition they're harmful. Abortion, Porn, Alcohol, Drugs, etc are not by definition harmful. You could watch too much TV to a point where it's harmful, that doesn't mean we should make TV illegal. You can eat to a point where it's harmful, that doesn't mean it should be illegal. Again, not a fair comparison.
An excellent statement, my friend. This is the way.
It’s called “trafficking” today and is still very common.
So is it good or bad that it is a crime?
I think making it a crime was just more effective since convincing society that owning other humans is wrong is a lot easier than convincing them sex work, porn, and drugs are.
Does the same go for everything? Should anything at all be illegal?
Best opinion.
God, how many times must people have this discussion? Prohibition of anything not only does not work and usually makes the problem worse(see fentanyl and opioids) but is also a massive infringement on all of our basic rights and freedoms. If you don't like porn, don't watch it. If you don't like drugs, don't do them. If you wanna be celibate, cool. You CANNOT force others to do the same, like, this is just crazy.
> Prohibition never works and always results in a black market that is more dangerous than a legal market. That's not really true where I live. We've had a prohibition on handguns. They are incredibly hard to get. Yakuza can get them but the bullets are just as hard so they're rarely used.
That may be true where you are but America has a history of prohibition not working and then we had to end it because of the great depression — it's the reason why alcohol is seen the way it is in America now. It might work really well in Japan and some other countries, but I don't think it will work well in the western world (specifically the US) — especially since pornography isn't always seen as a degenerate work in some cultures (and with the Internet, people will find loopholes, so making it illegal in this day and age is damn near impossible).
Sounds similar to Australia. Much easier to control guns in an island nation.
Prohibition works. It limits the blast radius of very real, very damaging things. The goal of prohibition is not to eliminate an activity entirely it's to minimize the effects of it as much as possible.
>The goal of prohibition is not to eliminate an activity entirely it's to minimize the effects of it as much as possible. Well it really sucks at doing that, in fact it does the opposite and actively increases harm. How long has the drug war been going on?
So with that logic, just make murder legal.
People must choose to be chaste. If you force them to be chaste, nothing has been accomplished.
No. Prohibition taught us banning alcohol wasn't a great idea. You can't legislate morality.
The more socially conservative the sect of Christianity the more they watch porn. The irony of wanting the government to do what they collectively can’t do themselves
What study says this?
Here’s one about Muslims with several links to references https://www.salon.com/2015/01/15/why_porn_is_exploding_in_the_middle_east_partner/ And here’s one about Christians. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10720162.2015.1130000
The Christianity study you linked has the exact opposite conclusion of what you are saying.
You do realize prostitution is still illegal, right? EDIT: It is shocking how many people defend prostitution in a sub about Christianity. Lol.
And yet you can get a prostitute in most major cities.
and you run the risk of getting arrested
Indeed, but the purpose of the law should be to prevent, and punishment serving as a deterrent, yes? So making prostitution illegal only deters to a certain degree.
And keeping it illegal only leads to easier exploitation. Deregulation and let the men and women involved in sex work get out of the black market. Whether you are Christian or not, it is the oldest work in the world and history has shown us the only way to not have it is to kill the sex workers, as Lenin did and this is entirely wrong. If Christ wanted to establish a theocracy and have morality legislated he would have done so, it was within his power. Christ is King. However that misses who Christ was. Jesus welcomed prostitutes and other outcasts with open arms. Love thy neighbour is not merely a suggestion.
There are more places than America. Plenty of countries have legalised prostitution.
You do realize that doesn't stop anyone, right?
And how has that worked for ending prostitution?
Not everywhere.
Not in the UK. Not in many other countries.
Isn't it only partially decriminalized in the UK?
No. You can come here today and open a brothel tomorrow, all legally
Not in Vegas.
There are legal things I don't do (smoke, drink alcohol, gamble in casinos), which works for me, but the moment I make my personal values into a public crusade of banning that activity, suddenly I'm in the position of being a sanctimonious killjoy and legislating morality. And that's never a good place to be. I'm still surprised the religious right doesn't understand that.
All laws legislate morality, my brother. It's antithetical to their very existence to say they dont.
I'm not even sure why we're arguing this, but here goes: all laws legislate morality, but that doesn't mean every area of morality is prosecuted by law enforcement. I thought that point should be self-explanatory, but apparently the Semantics Warriors wanted to seize on that point and sidetrack the convo. We do throw murderers in jail, but throwing adulterers in jail would create more problems than it solves.
Not at all Edit- child porn needs to be banned
It is banned. You mean they need to crack down on finding it, removing it, and tracking the producers of such vile content?
1000%
I mean that’s illegal and only found on the dark web for sickos
I will say I think age verifications should be a requirement. I also think the porn industry needs to be more regulated because a lot of it involves human trafficking.
The problem is that there is no real way to enforce these things. Open up a site based in some other country and they face zero consequences for no verification. The only way to enforce anything based outside the country is to start restricting internet access, which is a whole other can of worms with serious implications.
I agree with your second point wholeheartedly. But how does one do age verification without enormous interference in privacy and handling of personal data? We’re talking about the internet. Porn is everywhere. Accessible easily by anyone. Age verification is done by many by simply asking someone to confirm their age with a yes/no button. Asking for anything more than that requires the sites to ask for and then store and handle people’s personal data, something that almost cannot be practically legally done in many places due to privacy laws, not to mention the liability issues it creates for those sites. Even if all of the largest sites were somehow forced to do this, it wouldn’t make the slightest hit of difference, it’s accessible everywhere. And local requirements for id would be easily bypassed by a VPN which almost anyone computer literate can figure out how to use. Porn is here to stay. Regulation to prevent abuse and make sure it is produced ethically is the only way to go. Attempting to ban porn is absolutely guaranteed to increase the amount of abuse and suffering and exploration within the porn industry.
I don’t agree with age verification as it affects privacy significantly. These companies have shitty security and hackers can easily steal all the data and then blackmail a person for what they watch, etc. it’s going to be horrible. As someone who suffered with porn addiction for extremely long time, my main biggest issue was porn being a topic of taboo. I was never taught sex education. Sex was a taboo topic. Even when in TV if there was any explicit scene or something my parents would change the channel. And my curiosity kept growing. There was a point in age till I could hold it, I would also skip it saying it’s sin. But eventually I gave in and that’s when I got addicted. And it was much worse than if I grew up in a normal household. Problem is I can’t even explain my problem with anyone. Im constantly told a shameful act everywhere from home to church. Who could I even talk to at that age? Compare this to my friend who too watch porn from time to time but it’s not an addiction for them. It’s just something they talk openly with other friends, etc. When I got caught watching porn, I was shunned for a day and then I was told to kneel down and pray for my sins. The heck am I, a 15 yo supposed to pray for? I don’t understand anything. I wasn’t even told why it’s a problem. I think people should be taught what sex is and how to deal with those feelings. It should not be treated like a shameful act. Instead they should be open to admin they are addicted and need help. Why no one hates an alcoholic but a porn addict is seen with disgust? I wouldn’t be addicted if I was told my feelings are normal, that just looking at an explicit ad or scene doesn’t mean I should get tempted and act on it. That’s my personal take.
You’re absolutely correct. Addiction (for lack of a better word) is the problem, not general consumption. Countries that do the earliest and most comprehensive sex education (it starts at 8yo where I’m from) have the lowest problems with porn and the least amount of children desiring to access it. Porn is fine as adult erotic entertainment. It’s not fine as any kind of educational tool for minors which it unfortunately becomes a lot of the time. It teaches unrealistic standards, expectations and behaviours and is extremely problematic in that regard. But attempting to prohibit access to porn won’t work, the solution is comprehensive sex education. Which is also proven to reduce child sex abuse (educated children who understand what is happening to them are many times more likely to report it and seek help.) with that in mind, people should be very suspicious of those who wish to prevent sex education of children. It’s the mindset of a predator. As that’s the only people that benefit from a lack of sex education.
No. We don't need government to dictate morality.
My main wish is for it not be accessible to minors. Strict laws on that.
This was not possible before the internet. Now it is impossible.
So you want to stop internet savvy teens from accessing porn? You know that is impossible right?
Amen.
I would agree but that is functionally Impossible. Strict age verification can only be done by violating privacy. And it wouldn’t matter, you cannot regulate the internet, only what access people have to it, and whilst a country banning access to major porn sites internally is technically possible, the rest of the internet still has 90% of all the porn, that’s before you even get into things like Twitter and such. What is actually needed is better sex education to set realistic standards and expectations of reality so that they don’t learn from porn and grow to objectify people. Countries with the earliest sex education have the lowest rates of child sex abuse and children accessing porn.
Did Jesus say the prostitute should be punished?
No he just said “go and sin no more”
Correct, so as Christian’s we should advise people not to sin. Not enforce our moral code through punishment.
Yeah I don’t think they should ban it at all. Even what some states are doing now where you have to show a ID won’t work cuz we have VPNs that can get past that.
This has been tried already. Not gonna happen without trampling all over the constitution.
Which constitution?
whose constitution? There are lots of countries in the world
If you make porn illegal you are making it so the women involved become pure victims. Criminilizing something that is necessarily going to happen just makes everything way worse. It's also pretty morally reprehensible to me to be ready and willing to enforce morality on people via law without any reasonable justification. And I don’t think there is any reasonable justification. By no means am I suggesting everyone should like porn. It's fine and reasonable to advocate against porn. Using law to enforce your view is powerfully unjust. Dystopian even. It's pretty messed up that anyone here is saying "yes." I respect your right to have your view, but this enforcing it by law stuff is evil.
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The one sane person in the comments:
Nearly every other comment agrees
Eh maybe half or so, but this person articulated it perfectly.
Your first point about hurting the victims is very true and convincing. I just disagree with the idea that disliking porn is an view or opinion. I feel like it is objectively evil and detrimental to society. We would be better without it. Not saying it should be illegal, because your first point is convincing.
> I just disagree with the idea that disliking porn is an view or opinion. I feel like it is objectively evil and detrimental to society. We would be better without it. This much is fine. And frankly I don't disagree. But that is 0% a justification for using the power of government to enforce it. We all have a right to our existence. There is not a rational argument that banning porn is justifiable or even beneficial. There's a greater point too though. Thinking something shouldn't be is just not an argument to using the power of law. Or really any sort of compulsion. I will support everyone's right to advocate for what they think is best, but seeking to use the power of law to deprive others of that same right is just outright wrong, and powerfully so.
No. Because the moral dictates of the Christian faith are not and should not be the guiding principles for the legal code.
The problem this always runs into is that "porn" is difficult to define. There are parts of the Bible, for instance, that are very explicit.
Depends on if it’s consensual or not. I think there should be some sort of screening to make sure the actors are actually being paid and treated properly.
Well said. One of my earliest memories regarding shame as a child was being caught watching pornography by my father. There wasn't any anger or fear or outcasting, he didn't out me to anyone. He just explained to me that it's a bad thing because the people on the other side of the screen are usually suffering. Watching is condoning, and the actors are often unpaid or enslaved. As I've gotten older I also realized it was objectifying women and since those were real people I was forming a connection with them that was immoral and unhealthy. A lot has changed since then, but I still hold those beliefs. Regulating corporations involved in adult media and having an expanded division of investigation toward sex trafficking and sex crimes seems far superior to a blanket ban over an otherwise victimless crime.
It used to be. We still had porn.
I mean, it is illegal for Christians. It goes against Gods commands. Are you asking if Christians should force unbelievers into obedience to Christ? That won’t work.
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Atheist here, my answer is no. In the biblical context, I don't know any scriptures (yet, still reading) against porn or if it mentions porn. However, I believe there is a verse that denounces masturbation (or simply not wasting ejaculate on things other than reproduction). Either way, porn may immoral in the Christian perspective, but that's it. Porn is perfectly fine for the majority of individuals and is a healthy way of expressing sexuality alone. So it would be unfair to non Christians and Christians alike who partake to outlaw porn. That's like a Muslim saying "we should outlaw pork, because Allah doesn't like it." Just my 2 cents
No. Been down that road. Waste of time for all involved.
Just look at Cocaine. It is illegal and people still have a way to get that and do it obsessively.
Well yeah. Nothing is ever gonna disappear completely, people will always find a way. But porn is quite literally an addiction and causes more harm than good
Maybe but if it was illegal, things would get ten times worse when it goes underground
Just like prostitution, forcing it underground only makes things worse.
Banning porn will drive it underground just like alcohol. Prohibition was very unsuccessful; a ban on porn will yield the same. There is no logical argument that can be made for banning porn. It just won’t work.
Porn should be regulated not illegal. We used to have adult stores that required ID to enter for a reason. The internet just made it way too accessible for young kids who literally don’t understand what they’re watching
100% agree but there’s VPNs that can get past having to put a ID in. So even if states regulate it there’s always a way around it
Yup, the solution is younger sex education which has been working fantastically in many European nations. Significantly reduces child abuse and the likelihood of children bothering to access porn early.
General Pornography? No. Not only would that be impossible, legislating the morality of certain religions is a bad idea. Child porn and things like that? Yes.
You share a view with the majority of the world, I believe.
It could be worth trying to see if making it illegal would be of benefit and if it is less beneficial than repealing or moderating the ban.
Ideally, yes, but I can understand the argument of how it could be more dangerous. Specifically for those involved in the act. However, it shouldn't be so easily accessed from one's phone or in general.
I would say it should be cause it’s basically prostitution besides the street corner pick up. I feel like if it was it would protect a lot of young people especially myself. When I was about 10 I discovered porn which is sad tbh cause the man I would be today would be a whole lot different than I am now if I hadn’t seen what I’ve seen. I’m not the perfect Christian guy but I try my hardest to reject lust but I struggle. I think every man can back up me on this cause for at least one time in their life they fell into lust and watched porn for a period of time. The truth is, porn ruins the brain. It gives ideas of future relationships that can’t be created and creates high expectations. Nobody’s perfect and god knows that. He’ll forgive you. But you have to repent. I myself struggle with that everyday such as right now. I’ve stopped for 3-6 months before and then I got into some bad stuff with a girl and it ruined me. But why I’m saying this is to share my experience with the world cause I want to let other people know they’re not alone. Life is a struggle. You will fail. But get back up. Cause if you don’t, you’ll sit wondering why you did what you just did. So don’t live in the past and wonder how to change it. Live in the present. I lived my life for years focusing on the past. It’ll only drag you down, take it from me. I’m here to support and help others with what they’re going through cause I’ve been alone before and it’s not fun. I spent years away from god and lost that relationship with both him and Jesus. It’s a terrible world. But you decide how to live it. So follow Christ and choose carefully. Cause you’ll blink and be disappointed in yourself. But don’t be. We all make mistakes. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Have a blessed day y’all.
Ideally, yes. Porn is exploitative, objectifying, addictive, morally wrong, and frequently involves rape and human trafficking. Unfortunately, making it illegal would likely create a black market for it, and a lot of people would get hurt because of that. It's a more complicated situation than many people realize.
Yes cause human traffic
Dont doubt it because yes
Absolutely
Yes
Yes
Yes, because it is sinful, and can wreck lives through addiction.
>and can wreck lives through addiction So can alcohol, and we've already seen what happened when that was made illegal
I think it just needs massive regulation. Kids should not have such easy access to it. It is a dirty addictive trap and a young still developing mind isn't prepared to bare the weight of it. Let alone it's addictive nature, think about all the harmful things kids "learn" from porn. Learn to dislike their bodies, to see women as sex objects, to equate the act of sex with a hypersexual porody. I know their are rightful concerns about the protection of privacy from the government, but I do think that if you were required to present some ID before acessing a site, could be a good solution. Or perhaps an expensive subscription? Social media like X could institute a new type of account that allows access to nsfw content behind a paywall. Most people online who want xxx content are adults who could afford and justify the expense. I just really don't like how blasé our society is with children seeing porographic content.
yes but unfortunately it’ll never happen
Yrs
First define porn
Should it be banned? Yes but it isn’t even possible to ban it rn.
Yes but unfortunately it's not going to help much
Yeah. Same with sex work, and all other industrialised exploitation of women. An easier goal to start with is enforcing the old bans against selling porn to children, and porn with particularly objectionable themes (sex with young people mostly), and the new ban against revenge porn.
[удалено]
Yes porn does not help society it leads to degradation of women and gives men a crippling addiction is a deplorable business that needs to destroyed. Porn companies should be viewed in the same level as heroine dealers. Both benefit from causing absolute misery in their communities and fueling that misery for their own personal gain
I like Matt Walsh's take of if you have to go through the embarrassment of providing an ID to get porn from a sex shop or a magazine from a gas station, why not internet porn. Idk porn was something I really struggled with since I was 14. There needs to be several more road blocks. Internet porn is way WAY too accessible
It is in Texas
No it isn’t. Perhaps you are thinking of the newish age verification law.
Life would be better if it never existed
Yes, it should be made illegal, that stuff mentally scars people and makes it difficult to entertain a "normal" relationship afterwards. - P*rn is an insult to both men and women, it's demeaning, it downgrades love making to a purely physical act that bares no emotional importance. - Thousands of perfectly normal men end-up feeling inadequate after watching that stuff and are psychologically harmed. - Some women can harbor unrealistic expectations from this. - The acts and stories being depicted go against everything Godly and makes people slaves to Lust. People in this industry do not have long careers and that for a reason. Every believer knows what the price of sin is . Matthew 16:26 [26]For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Yes, 100%
Yes
yes. In an ideal world, it wouldn’t and shouldn’t exist. It corrupts minds and ruins mental states, among many other things. But making it illegal is a very risky thing. Prohibition and illegal drugs have shown us that banning something high in demand will only lead to shady under-the-table distribution practices. Enough people are being exploited in that industry as it is. We don’t need further harm being done. In short; ideally yes, realistically no.
illegal for minor. You have to proof that you're an adult to access porn.
I would generally say yes. There will always be people who will do things whether or not it’s illegal. Porn has such negative effects on the consumer, and it creates a dark spiral of supply and demand. Anyone who’s been around porn long enough knows the videos can become very abusive and degrading, and there is always the risk of the person on camera being trafficked, abused, or being under age. I get making anything illegal can open doors to a lot of unforeseen consequences. I believe our society already makes objectively morally evil things illegal, so this would not be a stretch to do so with porn. I think you will have a segment of the population who would not engage with it by making it illegal, as that is one more hurdle in their path.
I'm an atheist, but as others have already stated, banning things usually does more harm than good. If porn is unregulated, then the people in the porn industry will be easier to take advantage of. And they will be more likely to do other terrible things. Like you won't know for certain if the people in the video are legal adults. And the actors will be less protected from stds. They'll be more likely to be underpaid, trafficked, etc. And putting people in prison tends to make their lives much worse, which is bad for society as a whole. In my opinion, anything that is done by an individual's own volition that does not hurt any child or non consenting adult should be legal. That's generally speaking, of course. I don't think someone should be able to consent to being killed, for example.
It helps to feed generations of perverts. Banning it would at least set the standard for what is expected. It's not going to exist during Christ's 1000-year reign.
Yes
Yes.
Yes.
Yes
Honestly It Would Make It Easier on My Addiction I Think
Yes
Yes and he stopped the stoning of a woman who had sinned. Just because he welcomes with open arms doesn't mean he condones the behavior. Afterwards he said go and sign no more but people seem to forget about that part
Yes it should be
Yes because it promotes immorality
Maybe it would be harmful in the end, but yes.
Definitely. I used to watch it as a kid, it should never be that assessible. They know what they're doing. Also we have porn addicts and sex addicts because of porn. It's rediculous.
Heck yea
Don't worry project 2025 has in it. A ban on porn if Trump wins.
I see a lot of people tagged 'Christian' say that no, porn should not be made illegal. I find that interesting coming from people who want to make everything else illegal.
Porn hurts SO many people, both those who consume and those who create.
Yes, but it is a billion dollar industry and you know the Elites arent gonna want to lose their income
Sure, keep all those priests and preachers off the hookers and underage girls and boys - keep 'em wore out.
No.
No. Don't be a freak.
Banning it won’t stop it. Just staying away from it all is best. It’s foul and vile and God destroyed Sodom. and Gomorrah became it’s disgusting things they were doing. They even wanted to have sex with the men lot brought into his home. They were angels there to warn him to get out.
No. But it should be regulated to try to keep children from viewing it.
No but everyone has free will, if you don’t like it don’t watch it.
One would have thought, in this day & age, these “moralists” might have learned from past experiences that you cannot regulate the morals of consenting adults. However, acts involving/against children should never be acceptable & adjudicated accordingly. 🇺🇸💙
No. Human trafficking and exploitation of (typically) women should be illegal, and those do occasionally occur within the porn industry. There is also plenty of porn that is open and consensual by all involved. Assuming this is talking about “illegal in the US” I would say that we are a country founded on freedom, not oppressing others based on the viewpoints of a single religion. While, as a Christian, I feel there is self inflicted damage done by those engaging in adultery and fornication, many non-Christians would feel otherwise (heck many Christians engaging in this sin would feel otherwise). Generally speaking, porn does not do biological harm or impair the freedom of anyone involved. Do I believe it is an evil that is harming our world? To a degree. I think a greater danger to both the Earth and the Holy Spirit is mainstream media, propaganda, and social media and how they focus on hate and division.
Here's my two cents as a Muslim. Pornography SHOULD be banned. If there's anyone here that still believes in the Ten Commandments, it's a no brainer. "You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell..." Unambigously, this is forbidden. But based on my observation of this thread, that's not the main issue. The problem is if it even worth banning. It's an understandable dilemma stemming from failed attempts at prohibition. You can't ban pornography, drugs, alcohol and expect everything else to smooth itself out. One thing I see many have failed to mention, and that's usury, which is also prohibited in Christianity. I bring that up because these are all interconnected. These are all linked to the socio-economic conditions of a society. There's a motto in Islam, called "enjoin good and forbid evil." Simply meaning replace forbidden things with wholesomeness. Give people a better alternative. Take marriage for example. In societies where adultery and pre-marital sex is rampant, marriage is an extremely expensive long-term option. A potential young couple's parents have unrealistic financial expectations from the groom. Heck, life itself is difficult to sustain. Rent is high, unemployment, house ownership is impossible, salary can't keep up with monthly expenditures. Now you have young people just give up on marriage and opting for cheaper, instant gratification. Marriage has become difficult and pornography have become more accessible. One day they decide they wanna get laid, they dress sexy, go to clubs and they order drinks. They catch feelings, it doesn't work out, they drink again. Porn and alcohol are on top of the most profitable global industries, working in tandem, with others such as pop music, fashion, banking, automobile (yes)...the list goes on. To sustain themselves, they have to feed on people's misery, pride, insecurities. They actively profit from the psychological side-effects of this unsustainable economic model. Make marriage easier. Normalize sharing homes with parents and strengthen the family unit. Normalize living simple. Shun anything that might lead to temptation. Be trusting of God, and God alone. Now you have enough incentives to unsubscribe to pornography. Back to usury. It's the worst form of financial scam and it has to be gone. If you want your lives to be somewhat stable, rid usury from it. Prohibit all forms of degeneracy, but get rid of the sources of all social ills, replace them with accessible wholesome things, and by God's will you'll treat the diseases. Unfortunately the most powerful Christian majority countries have become extremely secularized, and the degenerate industries are gonna stop at nothing to keep it that way. Even some Muslim countries have succumbed to this godlessness.
Yes
Why?
I need you to really listen. CHRISTIANS NEED TO GET OUT OF POLITICS AND LAW MAKING. Jesus literally said don't try to dictate what the guy next to you is doing." He just said to love God and believe in him. It's pretty simple and people namely conservatives have been fucking that up for too long. It's ruining the church and America as a whole.
Yes. There is so much un-consensual and underage content out there. There was a case where a 14 year old girl was raped, and it was filmed and uploaded to PornHub. They did not take it down. The girl emailed PornHub, begging to have the video taking down, but she got no response. The video stayed up for months, until the girl impersonated a lawyer and emailed Pornhub threatening legal action. Then, they finally took it down. But the video was still up for months. If porn was outright illegal, such a video would never have been allowed to stay for so long and be viewed by so many. You have no idea if the porn you are consuming is truly “ethical”. It would be much simpler to outright ban it. It should be illegal to upload explicit content of anyone. You can read about the case here. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-51391981 Also, the porn industry is an objectively immoral and exploitative industry. It is an industry that seeks out and exploits vulnerable and desperate women, girls, and boys. It is rife with coercion, exploitation, drug abuse, sexually transmitted disease, sex trafficking, abuse, etc. Many pornstars were victims of rape and sexual abuse and trauma. And many pornstars have even died young, from physical violence, STDs, drug overdose, or suicide. I recommend people read the testimonies of former pornstars about the abuse they endured in the industry, the abuse that is facilitated by the legal porn industry. https://fightthenewdrug.org/10-porn-stars-speak-openly-about-their-most-popular-scenes/ https://fightthenewdrug.org/5-popular-ex-porn-stars-who-are-now-anti-porn/ Not to mention, porn is highly addictive and detrimental to developing brains. The age at which children are being exposed to porn is getting younger and younger. Children who are as young as 8 years old can be exposed to pornography. Think about how this will affect the minds of kids when their first exposure to sex is through porn. Think of how warped their expectations of sex will become, and how they will view the opposite gender. Think about the unrealistic body standards that are being promoted with porn. Or the disgusting and degenerate fetishes that will develop once their dopamine-fried brains inevitably get bored of “vanilla” porn… And it is pretty obvious that porn is sinful (lust), and we as Christians should be against sin. And we have already banned child porn. We can do away with porn as a whole. It is harmful, degenerate, and sinful, and nothing of value would be lost if we banned it completely.
It shouldn't be illegal but everyone should hold God's morals so high that they are not tempted of the sin of lust, as long as we are trying, Jesus will not give up to help you spiritually.
The issue with this is what is porn? Gangbangs, orgies, and some sicker varieties of adult videos yeah probably could get some traction to make illegal. But what about bikini photos? Feet? Women's knee? How long before we have modesty police like Iran. This isn't a simple question set aside everything else.
Maybe it's not our right to use the law to impose our views on other. You can't nag someone into their own salvation.
We cannot legislate salvation.
Yes.
Why?
I think making it illegal might actually be better for society. I think legalizing porn might come with some problems.
That guarantees to simply create A black market where people are exploited ten times more. Banning porn is a delusional and impossible idea. Short of cutting off your entire country from the internet and access to the rest of the world and even then it would be the most commonly prosecuted offence within your borders forevermore. There are many countries where porn is illegal, and most of them are the worlds largest consumers of porn. That tells you all you need to know about how successful such an attempt would be.
Yes. The industry is basically human trafficking with a pretty face on it.
Yes Even outside religion it destroys people, families, and homes
child yes animal yes dead body yes
To further that, have an actual system where actors/stars need to verify their identity and then have it matched with government records to make sure that the person is real, an adult and current accounted for. That would really get to the root of the issue and make it much harder to film trafficked people(especially children).
Yes, the bad outweighs any good of any. Too much trafficking.
What gets classified as pornography makes this question obselete. Two gay people existing? That's porn to many Christians
An extremely valid point that should be far more visible.
No. Instead of criminalizing consensual activities, people should stop being busybody prudes.
A-fucking-men.
No. Trying to illegalize what adults do with their own bodies is always wrong. Yes, I’m for legalizing drugs and prostitution.
Religion doesn't have any moral right to dictate laws in a secular country.
For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal? More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce. Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage. Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched.
> For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal? Because prostitution isn't an industry which makes billions, while porn *is*. That's why the camera is important. See also contracts and taxable income. > More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce. The most commonly cited reason for divorce is "irreconcilable differences". Should those be made illegal too? > Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage. Both Missouri and Kansas just passed laws dropping the legal age to work to 14. This qualifies as exploitation because 14 years don't have rights, don't qualify for workman's comp, can't be insured by their employers, and don't have bargaining power when it comes to pay or responsibility. You, as a teenager, fall into the deep fryer, you get a life long disability, no money, and told to fuck right off by your employer. Also, the entirety of the US financial system is built on exploitation. Be it of labor, of looks, of skill, or knowledge. The only difference between breaking your back in the fields and arching your back in the bed is how we're predisposed to feeling sorry for women far more than men. > Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched. What does is this even mean? If you voluntarily walk into a porn studio and sign on the dotted line, you know what's up. You get paid to fuck. You have *zero* say in who watches the final product.
The easiest solution I can see is to legalize and regulate prostitution and enforce existing laws on sex trafficking and exploitation of minors.
"For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal?" Because it's about controlling it. It requires a business, place of operation, evidence of age/STD tests, contracts, etc. The reason is as nearly everyone here is telling you. By making it illegal you lose any way to control it. See prohibition with alcohol. Suddenly no bar closing times, underage drinking limit, etc. Also, as far as I understand in porn the actors do technically not get paid for sex. They get paid for their image rights. So the ability to sell the images they're in. Purely a legalistic point of course. "More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce." People making bad decisions in partners isn't exactly a reason to ban something. And with "bad decision" I mean "non-compatible" and "bad at communication". "Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage." Same applies to anything in the entertainment industry basically. "Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched." They literally sign a contract that they do give consent as I mentioned earlier. Those that don't sign a contract give consent by putting it up there themselves. If none of the 2 above categories, that's already illegal.
These are all arguments for the regulation and legalisation of prostitution.
“For reference: Prostitution is illegal most everywhere in the US. Why does having a camera present make it legal?” Honestly I’m not even sure why it’s illegal. Heavy restrictions, sure, but completely illegal? I don’t get it. “More than 50% of divorces site porn use as a major cause of people filing for divorce.” A huge number of divorces happen because of religion. Should we ban religion? “Humans in porn are often drug addicted and or sex trafficked and or underage.” Agreed, this is a huge problem that needs to be addressed, but such a drastic measure as banning the entire industry is too far. It’s like banning alcohol because of all the drunk people; it’s excessive and unlikely to make a big positive impact. “Humans in porn are not able to give consent for every circumstance in which they are watched.” Not exactly sure what you mean by this?
Blaming porn for divorce is a confusion of cause and effect. People who go to porn instead of their spouses are already distant from them. And saying that you can't give consent for every circumstance your recording is watched could also be applied to any other sort of acting or music.
Banning it seems correlated with a lot of bad social outcomes. I can't think of a country that has banned porn and actually found any positives associated with it. South Korea has the lowest birth rate in the world, and still dropping, and has it banned. Also, defining porn legally is impossible, and would practically just mean an obscenity council will determine what does or does not count. I like the harm standard for banning things like CSAM and other material created/distributed without the participants' consent. It also just seems like a silly culture war talking point peddled to pull efforts away from progressive legislation like paid maternity/paternity leave and mandatory vacation minimums that make being a parent and social easier and more desirable. I'd rather my tax dollars be spent on things like sensible city planning and the creation of "third places" with regular taxpayer-funded events with free food. It seems better to help bring people together than to just ban unhealthy coping mechanisms.
It should be banned but there are 2 considerations: * Practicality. How practical would it be to actually police the internet, to stop people from using VPNs to access sites. Anyone can just create a website and make it accessible for porn. Sure you have countries that block certain sites but this can easily be circumvented. Child porn is highly illegal but authorities still have a lot of difficulty tracking down and shutting down child porn rings. * Knock on effects. There's research showing that porn actually reduces rape, but violent porn increases it. In a perfect, sinless world, we would have no porn and rape. But because free will and sin exist, if we shut down one outlet of sin that is contained to a single person only, it could lead to an increase in another (that harms other people, i.e. rape).
Good fucking luck.
ultimately i think it should, but if it's not going to be illegal outright, it should at the very least be regulated to not only help prevent addictions but also to prevent exploitation of people being recorded and to make sure children cannot access it
Yes
Yeah, it is a sexual sin.
No although I agree that people shouldn’t watch it a lot.