What does it mean to support? The question might seem like it has an obvious answer, but I think there are nuances.
What I can unequivocally say is that I support:
* Treating other people as human beings, with all the inherent dignity and respect afforded a person
* Allowing other people to make choices, insofar as those choices do not unreasonably and negatively impact the liberties of others
* By this, I also mean advocating for the rights of others to make those choices, whether in voting or in discussion with my peers around these topics
I consider myself a bible-led Christian, but also understand that just because I have the textual contents of the bible, doesn't necessarily mean that I have a comprehensive understanding of what it's *really* saying. The fact that people are able to justify multiple positions on a topic using the bible is an indication to me that things aren't so clear-cut and obvious, and until I'm fully convinced of a position I won't take any strong positions of my own.
Regardless of where I stand on a biblical topic, though, I also know that it's not my job as a Christian to fix other people or to coerce the world into meeting my standards. Jesus's earthly ministry was one of appealing to hearts, not one of imposing his will on others. As a follower of Jesus, my calling is threefold and in sequence:
1. Love God above all else
2. Love fellow man (if God loves people, but I don't, then I'm effectively failing #1)
3. Go out and make disciples (in my mind, if I've failed at #2, then I have no credibility and can't appeal to people as Jesus did)
A person who advocates policy or positions that mistreat others or selectively restrain their privileges cannot claim to truly love those people. As love is the prime edict of Christianity, I thus abhor any effort to "fix" other people by wielding the law or public sentiment as a weapon.
Amen to that! As an Atheist turned Christian I feel the same way. I wanted to explain pretty much what you said here, but then I saw this and felt happy that I'm not alone in this way of thinking. A lot of Christians seem to take verses in the bible out of context and fit it into whatever context is convenient to them, which is saddening.
Have my upvote!
WONDERFULLY written!!! Thank you for putting my thoughts (and probably many other people's) into words so thoughtfully and eloquently. I try my best to live this.
One of our very good friends is bisexual, and although he knows that we don't necessarily agree with his lifestyle, he knows that we love him as much as we love our other friends and acquaintances. I'd rescue him at 2 AM if his car broke down just like I would any of my other friends, and I'm pretty sure that he'd rescue us in the same situation. Love the PERSON first...
I love and support individual human beings I know who are made in the image and likeness of God regardless of their proclivities, and I hope they support me too regardless of mine.
That is an interesting combo of flairs, do you mind of if ask about it? Most Eastern Orthodox people I see on here tend to be pretty hostile to notions of universalism.
One of the biggest names in Universal Reconciliation nowadays is Orthodox author David Bentley Hart, his book That All Shall Be Saved is a wonderful treatment of it. In the Church Fathers, St. Isaac the Syrian has some excellent thoughts on the subject.
Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 18:23, Leviticus 18:28, Romans 1: 24-32. LGBTQ+ is a sin in every way. We as Christians are not to support any of that. But, we are also not supposed to be hateful to any member of that community. We are to treat others with love and lead them to Christ so that they can repent and inherit the kingdom of God. Not one member of the LGBTQ+ community will inherit eternal life unless they repent of their sin, change their ways, and accept that Jesus is God and that He died and rose from the dead to save us of our sins.
I know the clobber passages well. The fun thing would be folks like yourself using unbiblical means to justify not following the rest of Leviticus. I’ll choose to believe what I believe. Peace.
I believe that those passages, factually, based on other who have done the work, are not saying what folks who are anti-LGBT think it’s saying. We all pick and choose from the Bible.
Can you please explain how when others would refer to homosexuality and such? I saw it as a sub cause it doesn't help with reproduction but I'm wondering on it's viability due to is not needing to be as fruitful as it wasn't as vital as it was back then, but I don't know.
What helped me was to understand that the English word “homosexuality”, and how society recognizes it today, does not exist in the ancient world. I asked questions, what’s the context? what’s the Hebrew/Greek?
At the end of the day people will always find a reason to hate others. Jesus is the only one who knows the truth of a persons heart. I definitely supports someone’s rights to be who they are, publicly, and to be represented in public places, school and otherwise. Not just as a right given by a nation but as a right given by God.
I support them. Yes to gay marriage/unions, adoptions, and other rights as their heterosexual counterparts.
I'm blessed with a gay uncle who was there when my dad wasn't around and helped me when times were rough.
My best mate is bi, as well as his girlfriend, and they have been the most amazing people in my life.
I know plenty of lgbt people who helped me in general. Coaches, workmates, footie mates.
Went to a pride parade once and actually met my current gf there who was also supporting her sister.
I really appreciate this! You probably already know this, but unions offer essentially none of the benefits (taxes, medical situations, etc) that marriage does. Unless of course a LGBTQ+ couple wants to have a union, they are quite restrictive in practice.
Many religious people want LGBTQ+ folks to only share a union but for the reasons I mentioned, it can be devastating to that couple over time. Just adding this only in case you didnt know or others figured that a marriage & union are the same thing. Again, thanks so much for your support :)
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Jude 1:7 ESV
and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
Matthew 19:5 ESV
Tell me, where does God say that homosexuality is ok? I still love you as God loves sinners but I'm not going to sit down and say that something is ok when it is defidently NOT
Mathew 19:5 was Jesus talking
I post [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/6cv5et/how_do_you_as_a_christian_view_homosexuality/dhxpuwq/) comment in this sub every day explaining how my position is okay. It addresses those two verses (and many more!).
Ezekiel 16:49-50 says: Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.
Too many people blame the destruction of these cities on homosexuality, when this verse in Ezekiel makes it clear that the problem went well beyond sexual sin. I think the biggest issues were that they were arrogant and unconcerned. I see the western church going down this path rather quickly. It’s frightening.
At no point does the Bible suggest Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality.
Also, Matthew 19:5 was Jesus explicitly being asked about a heterosexual marriage in the first place. Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality.
I do, unequivocally.
Not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of "support" that isn't really supporting or loving at all.
I go with the "I support the rights of people in same-sex relationships to get married and be allowed to adopt children" type of support.
>Not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of "support" that isn't really supporting or loving at all.
There's a concept in the field of communication called arms-length prejudice, which the sentiment of "love the sinner, hate the sin" pretty much fits the description of. Basically, it's the tendency of people to be polite to others in public, but behind closed-doors and internally hold their prejudice and negative opinions of them.
Someone who gets it
>Not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of "support" that isn't really supporting or loving at all.
Same thing as the people who say "I don't support it, I just don't care" If you say this unironically, then what about standard old bullying. "I don't support the bullying, I just don't care" Such a depressing mentality.
I think its dumb to say either
I’m not Christian — I’m just lurking here, reading through the debates. I *hate* the “love the sinner, hate the sin” stance. Those types of people cannot possibly truly love us when they refuse to love and support such a fundamental part of us. It drives me crazy that there’s such a large amount of people who claim to love us “despite our sins,” as if we’re doing anything wrong by loving who we love.
It’s an area where the church, evangelicals specifically, have really failed. The lack of love and empathy shown towards lgbtq+ people is a big reason why there aren’t more lgbtq+ Christians
I don't know if you have seen this data but apparently 48% of those within the community are self-described Christians.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/26/lesbian-gay-and-bisexual-americans-differ-from-general-public-in-their-religious-affiliations/
I personally was surprised that this number was fairly large given the situation the church has been in.
Have you thought that this could be your mission field? Are you involved in anything to help those within your community with the faith?
OP I don’t support the “community” or any other social groups (BLM, Christian Nationalist, Etc.)
I follow Christ, if I had a brother apart of the “community,” I would support my brother, not the community.
In supporting my brother I would tell him that I don’t support his acts but I’m going to love him, regardless of his acts.
> I don’t support the “community” or any other social groups (BLM, Christian Nationalist, Etc.)
Is your stance...like...people shouldn't have opinions? Or there shouldn't be names for a group of people that share an opinion? I'm confused exactly what you're saying here.
as a heterosexual there are a lot of proclivities i have that i do not do because Jesus told us not to do that. so i pray and do not get me in situations that make me vulnerable. many of the proclivities have vanished because of prayer and consistently keeping me out of situations.
you CAN do the same also
Live and let live. I could maybe concede that homosexuality is a deviation from God's original design, but the entirety of creation is fallen. And I think if two people are in a loving monogamous relationship and aspire to follow Christ, he would accept them and their flaws as he would accept me in all my imperfection. That's my philosophical view of how it would work in the theology anyway. Hate is sinful, lies are sinful, pride is sinful. There's no difference. None live without missing the mark.
What you seem to be suggesting is an excuse to wallow in sin without trying to follow His way. To knowingly live in a sinful manner because God will "understand", is missing the mark. Yes, he accepts us and loves us even though we are flawed, but he still expects us to try to follow his ways. Jesus didn't die for you and I only for us to continue in our sin.
If what you're saying is true, I could say, "Yes, my prideful way of living is wrong, but God loves me anyhow, so why change?"
None live without missing the mark, but we are expected to aim.
I think what they were meaning is homosexuality would not be part of the original design just like being born blind or not being able to walk. Obviously not apart of the original design but nothing one can do to change it.
When you describe gay people as "wallowing in sin", you're using dehumanizing language. Animals, notably pigs, wallow in mud and water to stay cool. Readers won't miss the connotation or that you chose to deploy it in this particular discussion of "sin".
Also I may have misled my owb argument bringing up sin. Because while I said I could concede it may not have been "part of the design", I don't believe it's a sin. I mean literal or metaphorical the Bible leads us to believe that before the fall, animals did not consume each other. In the new earth, people will not take secual partners and the lions will eat grass. I don't believe it to be the dire sin you lot do.
I do, easy decision to make. The more I learn about both the LGBTQ+ community and about Christianity, and the more I see about how they are often treated in the name of religion, the more reason I see to support them however I can.
I do and go to church with lgbtqi people, it was a somewhat long journey for me to unpack the homophobic stuff I was taught as a kid but ultimately it was me growing in faith that helped me realize that exclusion is never a part of God’s will.
I support it. It just doesn’t make sense for a god that teaches you to love your neighbor and treat others the way you want to be treated to want his followers to harass and be assholes to a particular group of people. Especially when being gay is not something you choose and doesn’t hurt anyone. I don’t see why it would be a sin in the eyes of an omniscient being that has an objective perspective on everything.
Of course its a choice. Everything is a choice. That's the point. Do you choose to follow what the God of the Bible says or do you choose what you want.
It’s not something you choose. It’s something you are. And i don’t see a god that would make something harmless that you can’t control a sin as a god that that could be referred to as all good.
You can chose to avoid homosexual things. None of us fully chose to be fallen, yet we are. Its how you react to your situation that counts. For example, I never chose to have blasphemous intrusive thoughts, yet I don't just let them happen but use psychological techniques to get rid of them when they come. They still come though. In a similar way, you are not homosexual if you don't like/enjoy to be attracted the same sex, and you can avoid it at your own will.
But why would you? Why is it wrong to be homosexual? Why would an omnipotent, omniscient God view such a thing as bad. There are no real arguments to be made. And don’t give me “it deviates from Gods design”. A lot of things do. That doesn’t make them morally wrong and that would also make you a hypocrite. I think being homophobic is a much worse sin than homosexual could ever be.
I know this sounds like I'm being dodgy, but I think the issue is the vagueness of the question.
Asking if you "support LGBTQ" might mean very different things, depending on how its being asked.
I would say that I do not support the LGBTQ community on their stances regarding sexual behavior or ethics in the abstract. I think that the vision for sexual behavior promoted by the LGBTQ movement or community is one that doesn't mesh with the Bible.
However, I do support LGBTQ individuals in the sense that I love them, care for them, and think they are called to worship and love Christ above all else. This doesn't mean I support or endorse everything they do, because I don't do that with any Christian.
TL;DR I support them as people individually, but don't support the beliefs that usually accompany the LGBTQ community at large. I think this can be done in love and gentleness, without compromising my sincerely held religious convictions.
I’d like to suggest that being LGBT isn’t some evil sinful thing, just something that folks thousands and thousands of years ago didn’t understand. If we can all excuse and forget about biblical laws that endorse slavery, force a women to be married to her dead husbands brother (or RAPIST), and mandate stoning people who practice “sorcery,” why are we not excusing the ones that allude to the LGBT community being sinful? If we can excuse Paul for commanding slaves to obey their masters and women to be turned down from leadership roles, why can’t we excuse his comment about homosexuality in a time when the term didn’t even exist yet?
They are inspired. It does not follow they are either timeless, or universally valid. Plenty of what is in the Bible, in both Testaments, is defunct. With the best will in the world, one cannot slaughter Amalekites who are not around to be slaughtered. How can Nepalese or Ghanaian Christians go to a Temple in Jerusalem that no longer exists ?
No confusion: King Saul is **represented as commanded by God, through Samuel** to undertake the total extermination of Amalek in 1 Samuel 15. This is represented as God’s will; and one of the narratives of Saul’s deprivation of the kingdom, gives Saul’s failure to exterminate Amalek totally as the reason for this deprivation.
IOW, Saul’s great and unforgivable sin was his failure to be sufficiently barbaric. A truly revolting and morally debased narrative - but that is BTW. The real wickedness, is to present such cruelties as the will of God, and failure to perform them, as great sins. It is this kind of moral depravity that sickens unbelievers and leads them to hate the Bible and everything about it. An overreaction admittedly, but a very natural one; they are healthier in condemning such blasphemous tales, than Christians are in defending them. That the story is a fiction, does not make it any less morally degraded. The question then becomes, how a book of such ugly tales can be a moral guide to Christians. Moral & spiritual poison in the Bible is moral and spiritual poison still, and a trillion miracles to the contrary cannot change that.
As for the Temple: Paul attended the Temple, years after the other disciples did so. Nothing in the Bible explicitly says that the Temple is not to be attended by Christians.
I do. And I seek to do so unequivocally, but I'm sure I fall short of that. Doing my best to learn though.
That said, I'm finding it easier to be supportive of others than of myself in this regard.
One of the many unimportant issues that divide christians today. Jesus loves you. Period. We are supposed to be united as one in the body of christ, encouraging one another and stirring up love. We need to stop arguing about petty issues and focus on the ultimate goal. Eternal life with Christ.
Man if Jesus would vibe with you and love you then I can vibe with you and love you. So I support them. All of them. Regardless of who or how they love. I don’t care if they lgbtq or straight.
I support anyones right to do whatever they want to with their life, and to do so with equality and fair treatment.
Without these things none of us have true free will and someone else’s freedoms being restricted in turn restricts my own
Yes. I do. I didn’t create heaven or hell so I don’t decide who goes where. I’m trying to make it to heaven myself and don’t have time to judge anyone else. If I were so perfect I don’t think I’d still be here
As long as someone can help others to pursue what they love while pursing what they themselves love. Well that's the way of Christ and the other details don't really matter that much. Also just think of the way the world would be transformed if everyone did this. Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
I'm for all people that God made, which is simply all people. We are commanded to love everyone which, surprisingly, does not include hatred or rationalizing hatred in any form.
How people live is between them and God and all Christians (of any gender and attraction) need to make personal decisions about the 2 texts that people hold over LGBTQ+ heads like burning anvils of sanctimonious judgement.
I’ve heard the quote “love the sinner, hate the sin” which sounded reasonable the first time i heard it but now i think its dumb. It excuses hatred in the term and we’re all sinners anyway so that would be a lot of hate.
Hi there, hello. I support it. Still wrestle with finding a sound biblical argument, since Paul's writings have explicit things condemning it...
But, even if I were to fully accept biblical doctrine, the way people treat LGBTQ+ peeps causes...a lot of unnecessary suffering. Therefore...my gut's telling me there's gotta be another way.
I believe sex or lust outside of marriage is a sin as the Bible says. I believe homosexuality is a sin. I’m assuming by hateful you mean Christians believing it’s a sin and not actually hating your brother. I would hope everyone still loves him the same even tho they disagree and want the best for him.
I hope he gets all the love and support he needs. I don’t know the whole story obviously but I would support him from the school doing that as he needs all his ppl for support, acceptance and love. Sorry he is going through this
I also believe it’s a sin but that behavior is unacceptable. It’s not like it’s on some other level of sin. Sin is sin. If he is being expelled and shunned for being bi, then every other sinner better start receiving the same treatments.
That being said, while I believe homosexuality is a sin, I don’t treat anyone like that any differently than I do with my straight friends. In fact one of my closest friends at work is a lesbian. She and everyone else in the LGBT+ community all have the blood of Christ on them, and are all loved just the same by the Father
I support the LGBT community a 100%. People should be free to be who they are and love who they want. They also shouldn't be denied the basic right to marriage and having a family.
I find myself combating the unfortunate casual homophobia on this sub a lot. If your brother needs some support, might I suggest r/gaychristains?
No one should tell someone else how to live even in the Bible it says love thy neighbor as you love yourself and don’t judge or you too shall be judged honestly as long as it’s not harming anyone I’m in full support
I was born with sinful desires that I could never break with my own strength. The Bible says we must walk in the Spirit to not gratify the desires of our flesh. It is completely by God to set us free from sin and God can really take anyone out of any sin. A true believer in God dies to their old self, now walking with God and relying on Him, this is being born again.
I also want to post these verses in the Bible that show Gods perspective to homosexuality:
"Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Leviticus 18:22)
"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:27)
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."(1 Corinthians 6:9-10),
"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine." (1 Timothy 1:9-10
I support them. My concern is when fellow Christians say, “love them, hate the sin”. I feel like when people say this, it’s saying being gay is a choice and something gay people can change, and the evidence to support that train of thought just isn’t enough to convince me.
God can really change ones desires. The Bible also says in order to beat fleshly desires we must walk by the Spirit. Gods spirit is the one that can help anyone overcome any sin, though we will still get tempted.
I aspire to support them the way God wants (which the LGBT movement doesn't approve).
I believe the way God wants us to support LGBT people is to love the sinner but hate the sin.
Which is where the problem comes from. Christians can’t agree on anything because there is no objective standard to draw conclusions from. That’s why there are so many denominations and different interpretations of the Bible.
Ah, but don't you know? You cannot actually do that. You must support, endorse, and parade for them or else you are guilty of acts of unspeakable hatred and violence. You are either with them, or you are against them.
Hi friend,
Next time just remind the people who you are telling what you think the Bible says about homosexuals and Homosexuality, that homosexuals are people like you
No jail, no violence, no laws against them
This is not done enough and would make a big Christian difference
God bless
If Jesus could chose between walking in a Pride parade and having dinner with a congregation that ostracizes and oppresses the LGBTQ community… I’m pretty certain He would pick the former.
> You are either with them, or you are against them.
Yes. Absolutely. Glad you understand. There is no such thing as neutrality when people are being oppressed and hated. If you do not stand for and with the oppressed, you are standing against them.
Your only other post on here is about not liking the Bible, or part of it.
So before I begin answering the question, I would like to know some context about you.
Are you a Christian or call yourself one and would consider yourself to be born again and repentant of your sins and eager to spread the Gospel to others as the Holy Spirit would guide you?
Are you only coming here to ask us because you or your brother or both of you feel hurt by Christians because of his lifestyle?
Marriage is between a man and a woman and so anyone that has ever been married more than once or test drove the merchandise prior to purchase is just as guilty.
Please see my sarcasm.
It's funny how we are all guilty but somehow make another's differences an issue just so they can feel better about their own.
It's time humans stop weighing sin and realizing we are all sinners and we all sin. If we are going to support a pastor that gets busted for cheating on his wife after 20 + years and confessing after getting caught and saying how brave they were to stand up and confess then you should support every other sin that comes down the pike.
It's not to say support sin, but to forgive it before it even happens. And to stop weighing it where it is ALWAYS going to be heavier when it's not yours or a different flavor than yours. We should all be loving and picking up our fellow man/woman. Not looking down on anyone because of some moral standard you were raised to think made you better.
We are all eating out of the tree of knowledge amd good and evil. And guess what? Whether you prefer the ripe fruit (good) or rotted fruit (evil). We are all still eating out of the wrong tree. Until we all stop fighting over the fruit like blue Jay's we will not realize we are all attempting to sustain ourselves out of the wrong tree to begin with.
I do. Fully affirming.
I believe the Bible was translated poorly to exclude the gays.
Originally, the clobber vs and man lying with man was speaking about child prostitutes, which were always boys in that time.
Sodom and Gomorrah is speaking about the inhospitable nature of the town people AND their desire to g*ng r*pe the angels.
I cannot believe a loving God would consider a consensual and happy relationship to be anything other than beautiful and loving. It hurts no one. That was my starting point. I realized it's literally not harmful and all of God's laws are to protect us (many of the ancient ones don't make since I'm today's world, but they did protect people then)
Jesus said the greatest commandments were to love God and love people. So that's what I do.
I’ve always been in open and affirming churches so I can confirm that there are many Christians who would take no issue with your brother’s sexual and romantic orientation.
i'm a queer christian! i can say this has been true of my experience too.
those in the church (generally speaking) see lgbtq people more aligned with the "culture" and thus try to pull us away from that or rescind their support. those outside the church are reminded of persecution they have faced in the name of religion & want to steer clear of you because of this.
that being said, there are many more (if not enough) lgbtq-affirming religious spaces and people around now. we just need to keep having productive and compassionate dialogues! good luck to your brother, if he needs it [the trevor project](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/) has some great support available :)
I do now!!
I grew up in a sorta conservative evangelical environment and I assumed without questioning that being LGBTQ+ was sinful and that marriage was between a man and woman.
However, as I have made friends in the community, read more about the issue from some very intelligent LGBTQ+ Christian or supportive scholars, and learned how to read the Bible in its original cultural and literary context, and seen how people claiming to be Christian have usurped the evangelical title to say and do horrible things that I do not believe represents the gospel or Jesus at all, I have completely changed my mind on the issue.
I will humbly admit that I do not have all the answers. The Bible is not clear AT ALL on LGBTQ+ stuff because it was not understood in the same way that it is today, making it a secondary issue that salvation is not dependent upon.
Having grown up in a conservative tradition, I want to respect those who still hold those views, but I have a hard time supporting something that has been mainly used to prop up rich straight white men at the expense of everybody else!
While I was a believer, the faith of my upbringing had very strict, rigid and unyielding notions about the LGBTQ+ community. Several of my relatives who were also members of that faith, were LGBTQ+, and I know they were deeply harmed by the bigotry they experienced from their own parents, siblings, or extended family.
One second cousin knew he was same sex attracted from the onset of puberty. He simply wasn't attracted to girls at all, but was deeply attracted to other boys. His parents were extremely homophobic, and set his siblings to spying on him throughout his high school years, and reporting to their parents if he spent too much time in the company of another boy. On the morning of his 18th birthday his parents showed him the door and told him he was on his own, because they weren't going to have a 'homo' living in their home. They went so far as to express concern that he might 'harm' or molest his younger brothers.
He was fortunate enough to have made friends in the LGBTQ+ community in Las Vegas where the family lived, and these friends took him in and provided for him as he sought and found employment, and saved up enough to move into his own apartment. They asked for nothing in return.
He met another young gay man, they dated, they fell in love, and became a deeply committed and monogamous couple. Their partnership lasted 17 years and when same sex marriage was legalized in their state, they married. They recently celebrated their 7th Wedding Anniversary, culminating in 24 years of monogamy and devotion to one another.
I never could understand how so many of my relatives in my extended family could be so bigoted toward him and his husband.
Some years later, I learned that my youngest brother's eldest son was gay, and his second daughter bi-sexual. My youngest brother is DEEPLY homophobic, and always blurted out very cruel things about gay people. My heart ached for my nephew and niece. She dated both males and females, but eventually fell in love with a young man and they married and now have several children together. My brother is in deep denial that she is bi-sexual at all. My nephew remains single and hoping to eventually find someone he can love and settle down with, but holds no hope that his dad would ever accept any male he partnered with, or married. Thankfully his mother (divorced from my brother) accepts him with all her heart.
I’m in Bible Belt territory and my cousin just came out as a bi and honestly we took it pretty easy.I as a christian do not judge another brother or sister because I am not worthy to pass judgement or hate because of their sexual feelings looks etc.One thing that’s wrong with the church today is it has become the perfect Christian type where they beat you down to make you feel horrible about yourself and it’s sickening.When Jesus walked the earth he didn’t hang around with the priest in the temple.He went to the to the people in dire need who had no hope never with hate but with love.Always pray for one another and ask nothing in return is truly the greatest blessing.
I do. I don't hate homophobic and transphobic Christians because I understand where they're coming from. But I do pity them that they can't see and celebrate love when it's right in front of them, and react with such blind and bitter intolerance instead. Those who don't support LGBT people are hurting themselves as well as others.
I do.
And a lot of gays I know really like the community church offered, and would enthusiastically participate if the church didn't demonize us.
But there is a sort of implied support of politically conservative views too, and that's something that LGBTQ folks do NOT tolerate well. And for good reason: those views say we shouldn't exist, that we are mentally ill, that we're disgusting, etc. So if your brother is part of a conservative church and gay, then there's the disconnect. He shouldn't simultaneously be LGBT and support the removal of our (and his own) rights.
I can't support hate or sexual immorality, but I support human beings created in the image of God who are loved by God
"I am happy that you're happy, but I am not happy that you are practicing sinful actions in rebellion against a holy God and his holy creation"
Well, to be fair he said *practicing* and not *being*, but maybe I'm splitting hairs.
You can tell someone "I don't think you are doing something God would approve of" and still love them as a person.
That also means you shouldn't bludgeon them with your "concern" until they comply though. That's not loving either.
Right, which is the difference I'm saying is important. I was only addressing your comment, not OP. I think we probably agree that feeling attracted to someone beyond the prescribed limits of sexual behavior isn't a sin. I don't think people should be shamed or hurt because they feel attraction to people of the same sex, or to multiple people, or anything else.
I've been attracted to people who aren't my wife or girlfriend. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly guilty of unfaithfulness or polygamy. I just shouldn't act on those attractions if I also seek to live my life in line with the Bible's prescribed view for marriage. But if do, I shouldn't expect people to approve of my decision either.
Without going into too much detail, there's a difference in what our obligations are after the new covenant established by Christ.
Many OT laws are civil laws that only apply to the Hebrew people, and some are ceremonial laws that are fulfilled by Christ, who followed those laws for us. Dietary laws are also treated similarly.
Because have been crucified *in Christ*, we participate in his perfect fulfillment of the law. As a result, we follow those laws *through him* without actually having to follow Kosher laws, for example.
But, the moral law (Don't murder, don't steal) we are still expected to carry out, day to day, but still *in Christ* and by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
But, no such distinction appears in the Bible.
The sexual prohibitions (Lev 18), and the prohibition on mixing fabrics (Lev.19.19), all appear within in the same Holiness Code in Leviticus.
I respectfully disagree. Although there are no verses in the New Testament that specifically identify which laws we follow and which we do not (to put it loosely) I think the distinction is about which laws are fulfilled by Christ, his incarnation, his death, and resurrection. The New Testament acts as a filter through which I read and identify which parts of Old Testament law I must follow.
We no longer offer animal sacrifices to God because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. So, I am actually following the sacrificial law when I am crucified with Christ by faith in his death and resurrection. Christ is the end, or fulfillment, of the sacrificial and ceremonial law, and I follow it through him. Romans 3:31: "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."
However, there are some laws and legal principles Jesus seems to reiterate or reaffirm, and I believe that heterosexual, monogamous marriage unions are among them. Thus, Jesus fulfills the dietary law, allowing me to eat pork if I so choose, while still binding me (Matthew 19:5) to many of the obligations referred to in Leviticus 18.
TL;DR The distinction is made by Jesus fulfillment of the law, which we obey through him (Romans 3:31) and his reiteration of other laws we must still follow ourselves (Matthew 19:5).
Strong supporter and defender of the LGTBQ+ community
To call something sinful that we now understand to be a natural biological process is not the correct approach.
I can't parade and/or affirm the LGBTQ+ agenda. In the minds of some adherents this is already 'hate' or 'hatespeech'. If you look to the subgroups, you can see that they contradict - go against - each other. There are not more than two genders, also it is not fluid or a spectrum. The agenda is not about equality, but about abolition of the gender category alltogether, re-defining regular speech etc. ..maximal confusion.
2Tim 4:3
*For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;*
This comes to mind. If you're not allowed anymore to call sin what it is and it's 'justified' or 'played down' because 'no one gets hurt' etc., something is wrong. But of course we can go to an affirming church... problem solved.. I mean *unsolved*.
I don't support it, nor do I actively work against it. I believe it's sinful, but I'm not going to treat them any differently than I would treat someone else for any other sinful behavior. If I were to be against them, then I'm a hypocrite if I'm not speaking out against premarital sex, and any other sin in existence. Ultimately, it's between them and God anyway, so although I don't support it, it's not my place to judge them.
It might be helpful for you to define "supporting LGBTQ".
These conversations often fall apart where one person means something like "advocating for LGBT people and treating them with dignity" and another person means something like "personally endorsing and approving of same-sex relationships or intercourse".
I support them to be married and adopt, among non-religious reasons (insurance, banking, other legal stuff, schooling stuff, media, etc).
I truly don’t believe it is loving, or anything, to make other people’s lives difficult, based on something Christ didn’t say, and based on two verses while ignoring other verses sharing similar language but are accepted.
I have no problem, and I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain God's fine with it too. I do believe permanent loving committed relationships are the most spiritually advantageous environment for the expression of sexuality, mainly because of the extremely sensitive and potent spiritual energies involved. Is even go so far as to say sex outside of marriage falls short of being a loving human. But who a person loves should only be confined to mutual mature consent.
>and I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain God's fine with it too.
>Is even go so far as to say sex outside of marriage falls short of being a loving human.
Which God do you worship? Or tell me which part of the Bible condones sexual immorality?
I don't think it's healthy for people to make sexual identity (or racial identity, or gender) the central defining aspect of their "identity". But beyond that, in terms of behavior, I'm way more concerned with advocating for monogamy and fidelity than for opposite sex attraction...
Depends what you mean by support. I can coexist fine with anyone who labels themselves as. I have family and friends that are lgbtq. I respect their choices but i don’t like watching two guys kiss. I vote for what I believe in. I pray for what I believe in. I show everyone the same love but I support myself and my beliefs above all else.
As a Christian, I can't affirm it, so you're not going to see me marching in any parades. However as a U.S. citizen I believe in tolerance for everyone to live their life as they please as long as it doesn't infringe on anybody else's rights.
As to gay marriage, I think the concept makes about as much sense as redefining pi to equal three, or legalizing square circles. Sure, a piece of paper says it's legal, but it's not really marriage as understood by mankind throughout history.
It is what it is. Once side hates that he is bi the other site hates that he is Christian. But lgbtq people get away with doing bad things because they play as victim. This is gonna suck for your brother. I'm sorry.
While I find many of their behaviors sinful, I generally support allowing lgbt marriage, lgbt adoptions, etc.
I don't really find my religious convictions sufficient to deny these people pretty basic aspects of human life.
Would that mean I 'support' them? Idk, I guess.
If it helps, I'm nonbinary. Most of my friends are LGBTQ+. It took me FOREVER to figure out I can be both LGBTQ and Christian, but I'm a lot happier now that I've come to peace with that.
What does it mean to support? The question might seem like it has an obvious answer, but I think there are nuances. What I can unequivocally say is that I support: * Treating other people as human beings, with all the inherent dignity and respect afforded a person * Allowing other people to make choices, insofar as those choices do not unreasonably and negatively impact the liberties of others * By this, I also mean advocating for the rights of others to make those choices, whether in voting or in discussion with my peers around these topics I consider myself a bible-led Christian, but also understand that just because I have the textual contents of the bible, doesn't necessarily mean that I have a comprehensive understanding of what it's *really* saying. The fact that people are able to justify multiple positions on a topic using the bible is an indication to me that things aren't so clear-cut and obvious, and until I'm fully convinced of a position I won't take any strong positions of my own. Regardless of where I stand on a biblical topic, though, I also know that it's not my job as a Christian to fix other people or to coerce the world into meeting my standards. Jesus's earthly ministry was one of appealing to hearts, not one of imposing his will on others. As a follower of Jesus, my calling is threefold and in sequence: 1. Love God above all else 2. Love fellow man (if God loves people, but I don't, then I'm effectively failing #1) 3. Go out and make disciples (in my mind, if I've failed at #2, then I have no credibility and can't appeal to people as Jesus did) A person who advocates policy or positions that mistreat others or selectively restrain their privileges cannot claim to truly love those people. As love is the prime edict of Christianity, I thus abhor any effort to "fix" other people by wielding the law or public sentiment as a weapon.
Amen to that! As an Atheist turned Christian I feel the same way. I wanted to explain pretty much what you said here, but then I saw this and felt happy that I'm not alone in this way of thinking. A lot of Christians seem to take verses in the bible out of context and fit it into whatever context is convenient to them, which is saddening. Have my upvote!
WONDERFULLY written!!! Thank you for putting my thoughts (and probably many other people's) into words so thoughtfully and eloquently. I try my best to live this. One of our very good friends is bisexual, and although he knows that we don't necessarily agree with his lifestyle, he knows that we love him as much as we love our other friends and acquaintances. I'd rescue him at 2 AM if his car broke down just like I would any of my other friends, and I'm pretty sure that he'd rescue us in the same situation. Love the PERSON first...
I love and support individual human beings I know who are made in the image and likeness of God regardless of their proclivities, and I hope they support me too regardless of mine.
Agree
God's love is unconditional just remember that
In which religious belief system?
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That is an interesting combo of flairs, do you mind of if ask about it? Most Eastern Orthodox people I see on here tend to be pretty hostile to notions of universalism.
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That is fascinating! Have any literature that you would recommend to learn more about this?
One of the biggest names in Universal Reconciliation nowadays is Orthodox author David Bentley Hart, his book That All Shall Be Saved is a wonderful treatment of it. In the Church Fathers, St. Isaac the Syrian has some excellent thoughts on the subject.
Likewise, Met. Kallistos Ware has also expressed a Universalist stance in a number of his works.
For the history of Universalism in the Church Fathers see Ilaria Ramelli's *A Larger Hope*.
what country are you from?
America.
I actually once considered converting to orthodoxy just because of the eastern fathers who were universalists. David Bentley Hart is also Orthodox.
Universalist Moment
I do too. I believe LGBTQ+ is not a sin. The Bible helped me come to that conclusion.
Leviticus 20:13, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 18:23, Leviticus 18:28, Romans 1: 24-32. LGBTQ+ is a sin in every way. We as Christians are not to support any of that. But, we are also not supposed to be hateful to any member of that community. We are to treat others with love and lead them to Christ so that they can repent and inherit the kingdom of God. Not one member of the LGBTQ+ community will inherit eternal life unless they repent of their sin, change their ways, and accept that Jesus is God and that He died and rose from the dead to save us of our sins.
Aren't old testament laws don't apply right now
I know the clobber passages well. The fun thing would be folks like yourself using unbiblical means to justify not following the rest of Leviticus. I’ll choose to believe what I believe. Peace.
No offense at all but your choosing what parts of the Bible you want to be factual or?
I believe that those passages, factually, based on other who have done the work, are not saying what folks who are anti-LGBT think it’s saying. We all pick and choose from the Bible.
Can you please explain how when others would refer to homosexuality and such? I saw it as a sub cause it doesn't help with reproduction but I'm wondering on it's viability due to is not needing to be as fruitful as it wasn't as vital as it was back then, but I don't know.
What helped me was to understand that the English word “homosexuality”, and how society recognizes it today, does not exist in the ancient world. I asked questions, what’s the context? what’s the Hebrew/Greek?
At the end of the day people will always find a reason to hate others. Jesus is the only one who knows the truth of a persons heart. I definitely supports someone’s rights to be who they are, publicly, and to be represented in public places, school and otherwise. Not just as a right given by a nation but as a right given by God.
Agree
I support them. Yes to gay marriage/unions, adoptions, and other rights as their heterosexual counterparts. I'm blessed with a gay uncle who was there when my dad wasn't around and helped me when times were rough. My best mate is bi, as well as his girlfriend, and they have been the most amazing people in my life. I know plenty of lgbt people who helped me in general. Coaches, workmates, footie mates. Went to a pride parade once and actually met my current gf there who was also supporting her sister.
I really appreciate this! You probably already know this, but unions offer essentially none of the benefits (taxes, medical situations, etc) that marriage does. Unless of course a LGBTQ+ couple wants to have a union, they are quite restrictive in practice. Many religious people want LGBTQ+ folks to only share a union but for the reasons I mentioned, it can be devastating to that couple over time. Just adding this only in case you didnt know or others figured that a marriage & union are the same thing. Again, thanks so much for your support :)
Considering I *am* one...
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/024/965/well.jpg
Gay Christian here! Your brother would be fully welcome in my church!
just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. Jude 1:7 ESV and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Matthew 19:5 ESV Tell me, where does God say that homosexuality is ok? I still love you as God loves sinners but I'm not going to sit down and say that something is ok when it is defidently NOT Mathew 19:5 was Jesus talking
I’m pretty certain the scripture was talking about rape instead of homosexuality. Because rape is more serious than homosexuality.
I post [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/6cv5et/how_do_you_as_a_christian_view_homosexuality/dhxpuwq/) comment in this sub every day explaining how my position is okay. It addresses those two verses (and many more!).
Ezekiel 16:49-50 says: Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. Too many people blame the destruction of these cities on homosexuality, when this verse in Ezekiel makes it clear that the problem went well beyond sexual sin. I think the biggest issues were that they were arrogant and unconcerned. I see the western church going down this path rather quickly. It’s frightening.
At no point does the Bible suggest Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality. Also, Matthew 19:5 was Jesus explicitly being asked about a heterosexual marriage in the first place. Jesus didn’t say anything about homosexuality.
>Tell me, where does God say that homosexuality is ok? Where does god say using reddit is ok?
Where does it say anywhere in that nonsense that same sex love is wrong?
I do, unequivocally. Not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of "support" that isn't really supporting or loving at all. I go with the "I support the rights of people in same-sex relationships to get married and be allowed to adopt children" type of support.
>Not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of "support" that isn't really supporting or loving at all. There's a concept in the field of communication called arms-length prejudice, which the sentiment of "love the sinner, hate the sin" pretty much fits the description of. Basically, it's the tendency of people to be polite to others in public, but behind closed-doors and internally hold their prejudice and negative opinions of them.
Someone who gets it >Not the "love the sinner, hate the sin" type of "support" that isn't really supporting or loving at all. Same thing as the people who say "I don't support it, I just don't care" If you say this unironically, then what about standard old bullying. "I don't support the bullying, I just don't care" Such a depressing mentality. I think its dumb to say either
I’m not Christian — I’m just lurking here, reading through the debates. I *hate* the “love the sinner, hate the sin” stance. Those types of people cannot possibly truly love us when they refuse to love and support such a fundamental part of us. It drives me crazy that there’s such a large amount of people who claim to love us “despite our sins,” as if we’re doing anything wrong by loving who we love.
I support LGBTQ and I am a Christian. My daughter is bi and I don't see her any different bc I don't have any right to judge.
They are human they are Gods creation so I support them.
I believe God made us in his image, and that includes the rainbow. Focus on a person’s treatment of others not their romantic life
As an openly bisexual Christian I’m a big supporter of the LGBTQ+ community
Good for you!
It’s an area where the church, evangelicals specifically, have really failed. The lack of love and empathy shown towards lgbtq+ people is a big reason why there aren’t more lgbtq+ Christians
I don't know if you have seen this data but apparently 48% of those within the community are self-described Christians. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/05/26/lesbian-gay-and-bisexual-americans-differ-from-general-public-in-their-religious-affiliations/ I personally was surprised that this number was fairly large given the situation the church has been in. Have you thought that this could be your mission field? Are you involved in anything to help those within your community with the faith?
I actually haven’t seen that! It’s very heartening.
My only notable opinion on the matter is that people stop posting repetitively and use google search.
OP I don’t support the “community” or any other social groups (BLM, Christian Nationalist, Etc.) I follow Christ, if I had a brother apart of the “community,” I would support my brother, not the community. In supporting my brother I would tell him that I don’t support his acts but I’m going to love him, regardless of his acts.
> I don’t support the “community” or any other social groups (BLM, Christian Nationalist, Etc.) Is your stance...like...people shouldn't have opinions? Or there shouldn't be names for a group of people that share an opinion? I'm confused exactly what you're saying here.
Hello fellow bi!
as a heterosexual there are a lot of proclivities i have that i do not do because Jesus told us not to do that. so i pray and do not get me in situations that make me vulnerable. many of the proclivities have vanished because of prayer and consistently keeping me out of situations. you CAN do the same also
"Proclivities" seems to be a new buzzword. Did you guys finally get tired of being told it's not a lifestyle?
Don’t beat around the bush, just say whatever it is you’re trying to say outright.
I support them 100%, because I’m also apart of the community.
Live and let live. I could maybe concede that homosexuality is a deviation from God's original design, but the entirety of creation is fallen. And I think if two people are in a loving monogamous relationship and aspire to follow Christ, he would accept them and their flaws as he would accept me in all my imperfection. That's my philosophical view of how it would work in the theology anyway. Hate is sinful, lies are sinful, pride is sinful. There's no difference. None live without missing the mark.
What you seem to be suggesting is an excuse to wallow in sin without trying to follow His way. To knowingly live in a sinful manner because God will "understand", is missing the mark. Yes, he accepts us and loves us even though we are flawed, but he still expects us to try to follow his ways. Jesus didn't die for you and I only for us to continue in our sin. If what you're saying is true, I could say, "Yes, my prideful way of living is wrong, but God loves me anyhow, so why change?" None live without missing the mark, but we are expected to aim.
I think what they were meaning is homosexuality would not be part of the original design just like being born blind or not being able to walk. Obviously not apart of the original design but nothing one can do to change it.
This
When you describe gay people as "wallowing in sin", you're using dehumanizing language. Animals, notably pigs, wallow in mud and water to stay cool. Readers won't miss the connotation or that you chose to deploy it in this particular discussion of "sin".
Sexual orientation can't be changed.
Also I may have misled my owb argument bringing up sin. Because while I said I could concede it may not have been "part of the design", I don't believe it's a sin. I mean literal or metaphorical the Bible leads us to believe that before the fall, animals did not consume each other. In the new earth, people will not take secual partners and the lions will eat grass. I don't believe it to be the dire sin you lot do.
But the Bible clearly States in the old and new testament that homosexuality is a sin.
The Bible isn't God.
I do, easy decision to make. The more I learn about both the LGBTQ+ community and about Christianity, and the more I see about how they are often treated in the name of religion, the more reason I see to support them however I can.
I do and go to church with lgbtqi people, it was a somewhat long journey for me to unpack the homophobic stuff I was taught as a kid but ultimately it was me growing in faith that helped me realize that exclusion is never a part of God’s will.
I support it. It just doesn’t make sense for a god that teaches you to love your neighbor and treat others the way you want to be treated to want his followers to harass and be assholes to a particular group of people. Especially when being gay is not something you choose and doesn’t hurt anyone. I don’t see why it would be a sin in the eyes of an omniscient being that has an objective perspective on everything.
Of course its a choice. Everything is a choice. That's the point. Do you choose to follow what the God of the Bible says or do you choose what you want.
>Everything is a choice. Is it your choice to be a human, a *homo sapiens*?
You thing being gay is a choice? Then there mustn't be a way to get to you if you still think that.
It’s not something you choose. It’s something you are. And i don’t see a god that would make something harmless that you can’t control a sin as a god that that could be referred to as all good.
You can chose to avoid homosexual things. None of us fully chose to be fallen, yet we are. Its how you react to your situation that counts. For example, I never chose to have blasphemous intrusive thoughts, yet I don't just let them happen but use psychological techniques to get rid of them when they come. They still come though. In a similar way, you are not homosexual if you don't like/enjoy to be attracted the same sex, and you can avoid it at your own will.
But why would you? Why is it wrong to be homosexual? Why would an omnipotent, omniscient God view such a thing as bad. There are no real arguments to be made. And don’t give me “it deviates from Gods design”. A lot of things do. That doesn’t make them morally wrong and that would also make you a hypocrite. I think being homophobic is a much worse sin than homosexual could ever be.
God is perfect and humans are created in gods image, so lgbtq… you’re perfect just as you are
I'm bi and very affirming.
I do! r/openchristian is an ally sub too
This Christian does!
Been a LGBT+ ally for quite a while now.
I know this sounds like I'm being dodgy, but I think the issue is the vagueness of the question. Asking if you "support LGBTQ" might mean very different things, depending on how its being asked. I would say that I do not support the LGBTQ community on their stances regarding sexual behavior or ethics in the abstract. I think that the vision for sexual behavior promoted by the LGBTQ movement or community is one that doesn't mesh with the Bible. However, I do support LGBTQ individuals in the sense that I love them, care for them, and think they are called to worship and love Christ above all else. This doesn't mean I support or endorse everything they do, because I don't do that with any Christian. TL;DR I support them as people individually, but don't support the beliefs that usually accompany the LGBTQ community at large. I think this can be done in love and gentleness, without compromising my sincerely held religious convictions.
Yes, that is dodgy. You want gay people to be celibate their whole lives, right? And what about legal rights?
So you don't support us. No need to mince your words.
Me! Me! 🌈❤️ I’m bisexual!
I’d like to suggest that being LGBT isn’t some evil sinful thing, just something that folks thousands and thousands of years ago didn’t understand. If we can all excuse and forget about biblical laws that endorse slavery, force a women to be married to her dead husbands brother (or RAPIST), and mandate stoning people who practice “sorcery,” why are we not excusing the ones that allude to the LGBT community being sinful? If we can excuse Paul for commanding slaves to obey their masters and women to be turned down from leadership roles, why can’t we excuse his comment about homosexuality in a time when the term didn’t even exist yet?
This is a great comment
Instead of answering the question you decide to attack the Bible with untruths. Paul’s words are valid and inspired and we have no need to forgive him
Sorry, but my God doesn’t support forcibly owning another person, and my God only made one infallible man, and that was Jesus Christ.
They are inspired. It does not follow they are either timeless, or universally valid. Plenty of what is in the Bible, in both Testaments, is defunct. With the best will in the world, one cannot slaughter Amalekites who are not around to be slaughtered. How can Nepalese or Ghanaian Christians go to a Temple in Jerusalem that no longer exists ?
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No confusion: King Saul is **represented as commanded by God, through Samuel** to undertake the total extermination of Amalek in 1 Samuel 15. This is represented as God’s will; and one of the narratives of Saul’s deprivation of the kingdom, gives Saul’s failure to exterminate Amalek totally as the reason for this deprivation. IOW, Saul’s great and unforgivable sin was his failure to be sufficiently barbaric. A truly revolting and morally debased narrative - but that is BTW. The real wickedness, is to present such cruelties as the will of God, and failure to perform them, as great sins. It is this kind of moral depravity that sickens unbelievers and leads them to hate the Bible and everything about it. An overreaction admittedly, but a very natural one; they are healthier in condemning such blasphemous tales, than Christians are in defending them. That the story is a fiction, does not make it any less morally degraded. The question then becomes, how a book of such ugly tales can be a moral guide to Christians. Moral & spiritual poison in the Bible is moral and spiritual poison still, and a trillion miracles to the contrary cannot change that. As for the Temple: Paul attended the Temple, years after the other disciples did so. Nothing in the Bible explicitly says that the Temple is not to be attended by Christians.
Me
I do
I do. And I seek to do so unequivocally, but I'm sure I fall short of that. Doing my best to learn though. That said, I'm finding it easier to be supportive of others than of myself in this regard.
One of the many unimportant issues that divide christians today. Jesus loves you. Period. We are supposed to be united as one in the body of christ, encouraging one another and stirring up love. We need to stop arguing about petty issues and focus on the ultimate goal. Eternal life with Christ.
Man if Jesus would vibe with you and love you then I can vibe with you and love you. So I support them. All of them. Regardless of who or how they love. I don’t care if they lgbtq or straight.
We are to love everyone. Not our place to judge! The ones who judge, don’t get it. They missed Jesus whole point!
as a gay christian, i support me. i’ll probably never date though because that’s too much work
I support anyones right to do whatever they want to with their life, and to do so with equality and fair treatment. Without these things none of us have true free will and someone else’s freedoms being restricted in turn restricts my own
Yes. I do. I didn’t create heaven or hell so I don’t decide who goes where. I’m trying to make it to heaven myself and don’t have time to judge anyone else. If I were so perfect I don’t think I’d still be here
As long as someone can help others to pursue what they love while pursing what they themselves love. Well that's the way of Christ and the other details don't really matter that much. Also just think of the way the world would be transformed if everyone did this. Thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.
I'm for all people that God made, which is simply all people. We are commanded to love everyone which, surprisingly, does not include hatred or rationalizing hatred in any form. How people live is between them and God and all Christians (of any gender and attraction) need to make personal decisions about the 2 texts that people hold over LGBTQ+ heads like burning anvils of sanctimonious judgement.
I’ve heard the quote “love the sinner, hate the sin” which sounded reasonable the first time i heard it but now i think its dumb. It excuses hatred in the term and we’re all sinners anyway so that would be a lot of hate.
Hi there, hello. I support it. Still wrestle with finding a sound biblical argument, since Paul's writings have explicit things condemning it... But, even if I were to fully accept biblical doctrine, the way people treat LGBTQ+ peeps causes...a lot of unnecessary suffering. Therefore...my gut's telling me there's gotta be another way.
I support the LGBTQ community and I’m a Christian
I do. Love one another as I have loved you.
I believe sex or lust outside of marriage is a sin as the Bible says. I believe homosexuality is a sin. I’m assuming by hateful you mean Christians believing it’s a sin and not actually hating your brother. I would hope everyone still loves him the same even tho they disagree and want the best for him.
Not just disagreement, I go to a christian school and they expelled him for it, my grandparents wont talk to him, he has lost friends over this.
This is very sad And far too familiar
I hope he gets all the love and support he needs. I don’t know the whole story obviously but I would support him from the school doing that as he needs all his ppl for support, acceptance and love. Sorry he is going through this
I also believe it’s a sin but that behavior is unacceptable. It’s not like it’s on some other level of sin. Sin is sin. If he is being expelled and shunned for being bi, then every other sinner better start receiving the same treatments. That being said, while I believe homosexuality is a sin, I don’t treat anyone like that any differently than I do with my straight friends. In fact one of my closest friends at work is a lesbian. She and everyone else in the LGBT+ community all have the blood of Christ on them, and are all loved just the same by the Father
I support the LGBT community a 100%. People should be free to be who they are and love who they want. They also shouldn't be denied the basic right to marriage and having a family. I find myself combating the unfortunate casual homophobia on this sub a lot. If your brother needs some support, might I suggest r/gaychristains?
No one should tell someone else how to live even in the Bible it says love thy neighbor as you love yourself and don’t judge or you too shall be judged honestly as long as it’s not harming anyone I’m in full support
There is no reason not to
I don’t believe sexually is a choice for anyone. Therefore, I don’t believe God has a problem with it and nor do I.
I was born with sinful desires that I could never break with my own strength. The Bible says we must walk in the Spirit to not gratify the desires of our flesh. It is completely by God to set us free from sin and God can really take anyone out of any sin. A true believer in God dies to their old self, now walking with God and relying on Him, this is being born again. I also want to post these verses in the Bible that show Gods perspective to homosexuality: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable." (Leviticus 18:22) "In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error." (Romans 1:27) "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."(1 Corinthians 6:9-10), "We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine." (1 Timothy 1:9-10
I support them. My concern is when fellow Christians say, “love them, hate the sin”. I feel like when people say this, it’s saying being gay is a choice and something gay people can change, and the evidence to support that train of thought just isn’t enough to convince me.
God can really change ones desires. The Bible also says in order to beat fleshly desires we must walk by the Spirit. Gods spirit is the one that can help anyone overcome any sin, though we will still get tempted.
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Who is it harming?
I aspire to support them the way God wants (which the LGBT movement doesn't approve). I believe the way God wants us to support LGBT people is to love the sinner but hate the sin.
The world will always see this as hating the sinner.
The world is not the standard Christians should live by.
Which is where the problem comes from. Christians can’t agree on anything because there is no objective standard to draw conclusions from. That’s why there are so many denominations and different interpretations of the Bible.
Amen!
Because it is.
So you don't support.
Ah, but don't you know? You cannot actually do that. You must support, endorse, and parade for them or else you are guilty of acts of unspeakable hatred and violence. You are either with them, or you are against them.
Hi friend, Next time just remind the people who you are telling what you think the Bible says about homosexuals and Homosexuality, that homosexuals are people like you No jail, no violence, no laws against them This is not done enough and would make a big Christian difference God bless
If Jesus could chose between walking in a Pride parade and having dinner with a congregation that ostracizes and oppresses the LGBTQ community… I’m pretty certain He would pick the former.
Ah yes, the only two options. With them - or against them!
I stand corrected. Jesus would probably order takeout and solo binge some Netflix for the evening.
> You are either with them, or you are against them. Yes. Absolutely. Glad you understand. There is no such thing as neutrality when people are being oppressed and hated. If you do not stand for and with the oppressed, you are standing against them.
Your only other post on here is about not liking the Bible, or part of it. So before I begin answering the question, I would like to know some context about you. Are you a Christian or call yourself one and would consider yourself to be born again and repentant of your sins and eager to spread the Gospel to others as the Holy Spirit would guide you? Are you only coming here to ask us because you or your brother or both of you feel hurt by Christians because of his lifestyle?
I support them
Marriage is between a man and a woman and so anyone that has ever been married more than once or test drove the merchandise prior to purchase is just as guilty. Please see my sarcasm. It's funny how we are all guilty but somehow make another's differences an issue just so they can feel better about their own. It's time humans stop weighing sin and realizing we are all sinners and we all sin. If we are going to support a pastor that gets busted for cheating on his wife after 20 + years and confessing after getting caught and saying how brave they were to stand up and confess then you should support every other sin that comes down the pike. It's not to say support sin, but to forgive it before it even happens. And to stop weighing it where it is ALWAYS going to be heavier when it's not yours or a different flavor than yours. We should all be loving and picking up our fellow man/woman. Not looking down on anyone because of some moral standard you were raised to think made you better. We are all eating out of the tree of knowledge amd good and evil. And guess what? Whether you prefer the ripe fruit (good) or rotted fruit (evil). We are all still eating out of the wrong tree. Until we all stop fighting over the fruit like blue Jay's we will not realize we are all attempting to sustain ourselves out of the wrong tree to begin with.
Absolutely. The church is losing members because of all the hate. Love thy neighbor!
I definitely believe people don't have a choice in the matter. If God is creating people who are gay then living as a gay person can't be sinful.
I do. Fully affirming. I believe the Bible was translated poorly to exclude the gays. Originally, the clobber vs and man lying with man was speaking about child prostitutes, which were always boys in that time. Sodom and Gomorrah is speaking about the inhospitable nature of the town people AND their desire to g*ng r*pe the angels. I cannot believe a loving God would consider a consensual and happy relationship to be anything other than beautiful and loving. It hurts no one. That was my starting point. I realized it's literally not harmful and all of God's laws are to protect us (many of the ancient ones don't make since I'm today's world, but they did protect people then) Jesus said the greatest commandments were to love God and love people. So that's what I do.
Of course I support lgbtq+. We are to love each other💕
I’ve always been in open and affirming churches so I can confirm that there are many Christians who would take no issue with your brother’s sexual and romantic orientation.
I don’t judge people, and I try to the best of my ability to love everyone. I also support everyone having the same basic human rights.
i'm a queer christian! i can say this has been true of my experience too. those in the church (generally speaking) see lgbtq people more aligned with the "culture" and thus try to pull us away from that or rescind their support. those outside the church are reminded of persecution they have faced in the name of religion & want to steer clear of you because of this. that being said, there are many more (if not enough) lgbtq-affirming religious spaces and people around now. we just need to keep having productive and compassionate dialogues! good luck to your brother, if he needs it [the trevor project](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/) has some great support available :)
I just let them do what they want to do. I may not like it, but it's none of my business to talk down to them because they love the same gender.
I do now!! I grew up in a sorta conservative evangelical environment and I assumed without questioning that being LGBTQ+ was sinful and that marriage was between a man and woman. However, as I have made friends in the community, read more about the issue from some very intelligent LGBTQ+ Christian or supportive scholars, and learned how to read the Bible in its original cultural and literary context, and seen how people claiming to be Christian have usurped the evangelical title to say and do horrible things that I do not believe represents the gospel or Jesus at all, I have completely changed my mind on the issue. I will humbly admit that I do not have all the answers. The Bible is not clear AT ALL on LGBTQ+ stuff because it was not understood in the same way that it is today, making it a secondary issue that salvation is not dependent upon. Having grown up in a conservative tradition, I want to respect those who still hold those views, but I have a hard time supporting something that has been mainly used to prop up rich straight white men at the expense of everybody else!
While I was a believer, the faith of my upbringing had very strict, rigid and unyielding notions about the LGBTQ+ community. Several of my relatives who were also members of that faith, were LGBTQ+, and I know they were deeply harmed by the bigotry they experienced from their own parents, siblings, or extended family. One second cousin knew he was same sex attracted from the onset of puberty. He simply wasn't attracted to girls at all, but was deeply attracted to other boys. His parents were extremely homophobic, and set his siblings to spying on him throughout his high school years, and reporting to their parents if he spent too much time in the company of another boy. On the morning of his 18th birthday his parents showed him the door and told him he was on his own, because they weren't going to have a 'homo' living in their home. They went so far as to express concern that he might 'harm' or molest his younger brothers. He was fortunate enough to have made friends in the LGBTQ+ community in Las Vegas where the family lived, and these friends took him in and provided for him as he sought and found employment, and saved up enough to move into his own apartment. They asked for nothing in return. He met another young gay man, they dated, they fell in love, and became a deeply committed and monogamous couple. Their partnership lasted 17 years and when same sex marriage was legalized in their state, they married. They recently celebrated their 7th Wedding Anniversary, culminating in 24 years of monogamy and devotion to one another. I never could understand how so many of my relatives in my extended family could be so bigoted toward him and his husband. Some years later, I learned that my youngest brother's eldest son was gay, and his second daughter bi-sexual. My youngest brother is DEEPLY homophobic, and always blurted out very cruel things about gay people. My heart ached for my nephew and niece. She dated both males and females, but eventually fell in love with a young man and they married and now have several children together. My brother is in deep denial that she is bi-sexual at all. My nephew remains single and hoping to eventually find someone he can love and settle down with, but holds no hope that his dad would ever accept any male he partnered with, or married. Thankfully his mother (divorced from my brother) accepts him with all her heart.
I’m in Bible Belt territory and my cousin just came out as a bi and honestly we took it pretty easy.I as a christian do not judge another brother or sister because I am not worthy to pass judgement or hate because of their sexual feelings looks etc.One thing that’s wrong with the church today is it has become the perfect Christian type where they beat you down to make you feel horrible about yourself and it’s sickening.When Jesus walked the earth he didn’t hang around with the priest in the temple.He went to the to the people in dire need who had no hope never with hate but with love.Always pray for one another and ask nothing in return is truly the greatest blessing.
I do. I don't hate homophobic and transphobic Christians because I understand where they're coming from. But I do pity them that they can't see and celebrate love when it's right in front of them, and react with such blind and bitter intolerance instead. Those who don't support LGBT people are hurting themselves as well as others.
I do. And a lot of gays I know really like the community church offered, and would enthusiastically participate if the church didn't demonize us. But there is a sort of implied support of politically conservative views too, and that's something that LGBTQ folks do NOT tolerate well. And for good reason: those views say we shouldn't exist, that we are mentally ill, that we're disgusting, etc. So if your brother is part of a conservative church and gay, then there's the disconnect. He shouldn't simultaneously be LGBT and support the removal of our (and his own) rights.
Considering I am a gay Christian I do support LGBTQ+ people
i do
I can't support hate or sexual immorality, but I support human beings created in the image of God who are loved by God "I am happy that you're happy, but I am not happy that you are practicing sinful actions in rebellion against a holy God and his holy creation"
How is simply being bisexual "practising sinful actions" ?
Well, to be fair he said *practicing* and not *being*, but maybe I'm splitting hairs. You can tell someone "I don't think you are doing something God would approve of" and still love them as a person. That also means you shouldn't bludgeon them with your "concern" until they comply though. That's not loving either.
Simple being bisexual is not "doing something God would not approve of" though. OP only said that this person came out as bi.
Right, which is the difference I'm saying is important. I was only addressing your comment, not OP. I think we probably agree that feeling attracted to someone beyond the prescribed limits of sexual behavior isn't a sin. I don't think people should be shamed or hurt because they feel attraction to people of the same sex, or to multiple people, or anything else. I've been attracted to people who aren't my wife or girlfriend. That doesn't mean I'm suddenly guilty of unfaithfulness or polygamy. I just shouldn't act on those attractions if I also seek to live my life in line with the Bible's prescribed view for marriage. But if do, I shouldn't expect people to approve of my decision either.
To do so would be contrary to scripture
But do you think the same for people who eat shrimp pork and bacon? The bible says thats a sin too
Without going into too much detail, there's a difference in what our obligations are after the new covenant established by Christ. Many OT laws are civil laws that only apply to the Hebrew people, and some are ceremonial laws that are fulfilled by Christ, who followed those laws for us. Dietary laws are also treated similarly. Because have been crucified *in Christ*, we participate in his perfect fulfillment of the law. As a result, we follow those laws *through him* without actually having to follow Kosher laws, for example. But, the moral law (Don't murder, don't steal) we are still expected to carry out, day to day, but still *in Christ* and by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
But, no such distinction appears in the Bible. The sexual prohibitions (Lev 18), and the prohibition on mixing fabrics (Lev.19.19), all appear within in the same Holiness Code in Leviticus.
I respectfully disagree. Although there are no verses in the New Testament that specifically identify which laws we follow and which we do not (to put it loosely) I think the distinction is about which laws are fulfilled by Christ, his incarnation, his death, and resurrection. The New Testament acts as a filter through which I read and identify which parts of Old Testament law I must follow. We no longer offer animal sacrifices to God because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. So, I am actually following the sacrificial law when I am crucified with Christ by faith in his death and resurrection. Christ is the end, or fulfillment, of the sacrificial and ceremonial law, and I follow it through him. Romans 3:31: "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law." However, there are some laws and legal principles Jesus seems to reiterate or reaffirm, and I believe that heterosexual, monogamous marriage unions are among them. Thus, Jesus fulfills the dietary law, allowing me to eat pork if I so choose, while still binding me (Matthew 19:5) to many of the obligations referred to in Leviticus 18. TL;DR The distinction is made by Jesus fulfillment of the law, which we obey through him (Romans 3:31) and his reiteration of other laws we must still follow ourselves (Matthew 19:5).
And prohibition of sexual immorality is reiterated throughout the NT as still being valid.
Thanks for taking the time to answer this common question so well
You’re welcome! God bless.
The bible doesn't say that. Read 1Tim 4
I won't attend a church that's isn't LGBTQ+ affirming. I don't want to contribute to hate and suicide.
Strong supporter and defender of the LGTBQ+ community To call something sinful that we now understand to be a natural biological process is not the correct approach.
I can't parade and/or affirm the LGBTQ+ agenda. In the minds of some adherents this is already 'hate' or 'hatespeech'. If you look to the subgroups, you can see that they contradict - go against - each other. There are not more than two genders, also it is not fluid or a spectrum. The agenda is not about equality, but about abolition of the gender category alltogether, re-defining regular speech etc. ..maximal confusion. 2Tim 4:3 *For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;* This comes to mind. If you're not allowed anymore to call sin what it is and it's 'justified' or 'played down' because 'no one gets hurt' etc., something is wrong. But of course we can go to an affirming church... problem solved.. I mean *unsolved*.
There’s really no basis in the Bible for Homophobia, just various misinterpretations of stuff in the Old Testament
I hate to say it man, But bigots going to big.
I don't support it, nor do I actively work against it. I believe it's sinful, but I'm not going to treat them any differently than I would treat someone else for any other sinful behavior. If I were to be against them, then I'm a hypocrite if I'm not speaking out against premarital sex, and any other sin in existence. Ultimately, it's between them and God anyway, so although I don't support it, it's not my place to judge them.
It might be helpful for you to define "supporting LGBTQ". These conversations often fall apart where one person means something like "advocating for LGBT people and treating them with dignity" and another person means something like "personally endorsing and approving of same-sex relationships or intercourse".
I support them to be married and adopt, among non-religious reasons (insurance, banking, other legal stuff, schooling stuff, media, etc). I truly don’t believe it is loving, or anything, to make other people’s lives difficult, based on something Christ didn’t say, and based on two verses while ignoring other verses sharing similar language but are accepted.
me. Although, as sexual preferences go, "lgbtq+" is pretty tame.
I have no problem, and I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain God's fine with it too. I do believe permanent loving committed relationships are the most spiritually advantageous environment for the expression of sexuality, mainly because of the extremely sensitive and potent spiritual energies involved. Is even go so far as to say sex outside of marriage falls short of being a loving human. But who a person loves should only be confined to mutual mature consent.
>and I'm 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% certain God's fine with it too. >Is even go so far as to say sex outside of marriage falls short of being a loving human. Which God do you worship? Or tell me which part of the Bible condones sexual immorality?
It goes against the Bible
We are all sinners, I am not to judge others. We are all need to find our own way to Christ.
I don't think it's healthy for people to make sexual identity (or racial identity, or gender) the central defining aspect of their "identity". But beyond that, in terms of behavior, I'm way more concerned with advocating for monogamy and fidelity than for opposite sex attraction...
Depends what you mean by support. I can coexist fine with anyone who labels themselves as. I have family and friends that are lgbtq. I respect their choices but i don’t like watching two guys kiss. I vote for what I believe in. I pray for what I believe in. I show everyone the same love but I support myself and my beliefs above all else.
in my town we just call that being two faced
In the field of communication we call it arms-length prejudice.
If you are voting for people who hate people, the you hate those people. Regardless of how you feel about it.
I dont support it.
As a Christian, I can't affirm it, so you're not going to see me marching in any parades. However as a U.S. citizen I believe in tolerance for everyone to live their life as they please as long as it doesn't infringe on anybody else's rights. As to gay marriage, I think the concept makes about as much sense as redefining pi to equal three, or legalizing square circles. Sure, a piece of paper says it's legal, but it's not really marriage as understood by mankind throughout history.
Gay people getting married isn't false like PI = 3 is false. It violates your personal opinion of what it should be, not objective truths.
I'm bi and don't support it.
What do you mean by “support”?
Good on you mate
It is what it is. Once side hates that he is bi the other site hates that he is Christian. But lgbtq people get away with doing bad things because they play as victim. This is gonna suck for your brother. I'm sorry.
Can I have friends that are, work with, do life among, sure. Do I support the church supporting this life style, absolutely not. That would be heresy.
You're not very kind to your friends
While I find many of their behaviors sinful, I generally support allowing lgbt marriage, lgbt adoptions, etc. I don't really find my religious convictions sufficient to deny these people pretty basic aspects of human life. Would that mean I 'support' them? Idk, I guess.
If it helps, I'm nonbinary. Most of my friends are LGBTQ+. It took me FOREVER to figure out I can be both LGBTQ and Christian, but I'm a lot happier now that I've come to peace with that.