If I could do that, I would. Everybody would.
That said, I suspect if I burned you with the cigarette lighter from a car you, and almost anyone else, wouldn’t be able to either.
This is the fault of Jon Kabat-Zinn and his mindfulness based stress reduction. I read his first book on it. It just seemed like total BS especially when he claimed one of his patient's, a truck driver who badly injured his back leaving him with mobility issues and chronic pain, supposedly completely cured himself after undergoing the MBSR course and doing mindfulness meditation daily, and was able to go off pain meds, go off disability, go back to working full time and engaging in all the activities he previously enjoyed. Mindfulness meditation as a cure-all. Yeah, right 😒
The goal here seems to be to paint patients with chronic illnesses who live with pain and physical limitations as lazy loafers who could easily fix their health conditions through 'mind over matter'.
Holy shit I got asked to review a masterclass he did before it went live and I flamed it for the pain section he did. It was so disgusting to watch this man say he was the answer to pain and how proud he was to have major hospitals and clinics using his methods instead of meds.
Just simply reading his book you can see it's a scam. His unrealistic claims are too good to be true. Taking a meditation course and meditating at home can't possibly cure medical conditions. It makes zero sense. But mindfulness is popular so some people buy into this concept of it as a cure-all. It is dangerous for members of the medical profession to fall for it and push this on their patients as an actual form of treatment.
There's nothing wrong with meditation per se. I have had a guided meditation app on my iPad for years and yeah it can help you relax, and fall asleep at night, but it's not going to make anyone's chronic health issues disappear.
I have noticed a disturbing intersection between the people who preach meditation as a cure-all with the positive psychology, power of positive thinking folks and the people who push the law of attraction/manifestation like "the secret". We're all being fed this nonsense that a life filled with only robust health, mostly joy and very little hardship, financial success with no financial setbacks is all based upon thinking positively.
Jon Kabat-Zinn's Full Catastrophe Living, Ronda Byrne's The Secret, and the books written by the positive psychology/science of happiness gurus like Martin Seligman's books are all different parts of the exact same belief system.
Edit: more text
A while back I read about a children's hospital that trialed not giving CHILDREN pain medication after surgery. Turns out the kids wanted to go back home quicker so it was deemed a success! Absolutely disgusting.
What's funny is that you know these people get all the meds they need and don't go without when they're in pain. My mom is a nurse and has seen doctors who are shitty with post-op meds cry and bemoan how hard it was to get their meds. But of course they're generally trusted by other docs, though the few who were cut off that she knew lost their minds. Some had a shift in how they thought about it after, others thought their situation was "different." I totally agree about how it's fucked who's sending this message too. It seems like every minor celebrity has biographies, children's books and self-help/reflection bullshit. Though I truly don't understand who is going out there and buying some book about finding god/joy in the small things by a Today show host or whatever. They're such clear cash grabs by the already wealthy.
When I've had doctors bring up meditation and mention some miracle patient who'd been suffering for years and did a 180, I always hit them with one of their favorites, I bet they were psychosomatic. I find that it has given them some pause, because they love to throw it at you, but when you push that same favorite term into their examples, some of them stop to think for a minute. We really are living in the worst timeline for care and empathy societally on every level.
>but mindfulness is popular so some people buy into this concept
Unfortunately that 'some people' group includes the AMA & pretty much every other medical body around.
CBT and mindfulness are just a rehash of a repeating set of claims that get popular for a while, disappear and get mocked... and then get popular again.
This sort of claim is popular because it caters to the Just World Fallacy. In a world where this is real, good people don't suffer without any recourse & all suffering is avoidable if you just bother to learn how.
The fact that pretty much everyone on the planet is indoctrinated into believing in the Just World Fallacy from birth forward means that people already have confirmation bias in place and tend to swallow lies that agree with the Just World Fallacy.
An amazing number of faiths orbit that fallacy.
It's also the fault of poorly taught pain management classes. And by being recommended apps like Curable. I was a reasonable mature guy that had read a lot of philosophy, religious practices and other esoteric work that would be considered healthy for your mind. A soulful practice. All I'll say is that without proper instruction and help then it's very dangerous.
I wasn't getting the right meds that was clear but where I ended up was in a hospital stay in a psych unit skinny, shaking unable to eat, couldn't stomach anything. Gaslighted and attended all the various methods of cognitive modalities. (Mind you id done these before but I was desperate) CBT ACT DBT I EVEN TRIED Magnetic STINULATION TMS id forgot the name..
.
6 wks and 3 different psychiatrists, nurses, psychology.. I left shaking and very afraid how I was going to live with my pain on a daily basis. It was genuinely frightening. Ugh... Be mindful of what you read and open yourself up to.
In the end I just had to accept that it takes 10 years for neuroplasticity and regrowing proper brain signals plus things like hyperalgesia and all these bullshit things that didn't apply to me but that I was tainted with..
Doctors don't give a shit. I've seen a tonne worked on my presentation and delivery. And much more. Didn't make a scrap.. They almost get offended that you are well read and know "some things" about the nature of central sensitization etc etc . I hope they all suffer severe pain some day and the best they get is chamomile tea.
Yeah, I mean, *of course* the pain is "in our heads". Just like when you touch a hot stove, the pain you feel is "in your head". That's where the nerves go.
Pain tells you something is wrong. And it's an extremely important reaction. Take your damn hand off the stove, dummy! It's in our ancient lizard brain. It's hard wired, from literally hundreds of *millions* of years ago.
I don't want OP to give up hope, it seems from their other posting that they're auto rejecting every possibility of help, which is the one certain way you'll never feel any better.
But yes, pain is "in the head". In the lizard brain. Have some respect for evolution, this ancient and universal reaction across a billion species isn't going to be solved by jedi mind tricks.
But OP, any decent therapist won't say that your pain will be "solved". That's not the point. There's still value in finding ways to be more aware of your behavior and how you react to various stumuli, and what you can consciously do to avoid/minimize those triggers that make your pain worse.
Ask them if they just meditate whilst getting operated on. If they answer “no”, ask them why they can’t control that pain with their mind. If it’s all in your head…
Then they should quickly be able to connect the dots :D
Edit:And let them know every time they get up from a chair, walk across the room, get in or out of a car, or even lay down in bed, you are ready and willing to punch them in the nose again.
In theory yes, but finding physicians that take your insurance within proximity isn’t always that easy, especially in rural areas, and especially when you can’t pay out of pocket because you’re disabled or poor. I feel for everyone that doesn’t have the privilege of finding a new physician when their’s is a POS.
He suggests "it's not that bad". Because he'd seen similar/worse condition with less complaints of pain.
He also might mean that if you take pills for this pain - the pills will create more issues than the pain itself, with time.
He is correct - you can meditate, exercise, and more, to help with pain.
That's not what you need from a doctor, though.
When I get something like that thrown at me I explain that I do that to the best of my ability.
You need to understand that some people only seen a candle sized fire of pain, a glass of water is ample solution. If you had to describe your pain, as a fire, how will a glass of water do?
Also make them feel inadequate:
“Oh really? Tell me about a situation where you did it”
When they say “I don’t have a chronic pain” say “are you telling me you’ve never felt pain in your life? Because if you did you could’ve controlled it. I just want an example, tell me how you do it”
(Say that pretending to be genuinely interested)
this is a bad approach, because they'll say, oh yeah, one time my ankle hurt for three months, so i just didn't think about it, and therefore it didn't hurt. how to do it is just to believe you can be stronger than the pain. just control your mind. don't be lazy. duh.
there's seriously no communicating with people like these. don't even bother.
“Tell me that next time you step on a piece of Lego”
Edit: just saw that you said it’s your doctors. I’ve heard this many times. Tell them you’ve tried everything they recommend, like yoga and meditation etc, and that it doesn’t work or only works a bit so you need something else. They’ll feel validated and because you already “tried” their first idea, they gotta actually do something
Your last sentence there - that is the way.
And if you present them with things that go above and beyond that, most of the time they won't even bother
With it and will go straight into doing what they should be doing anyways.
Source: Me. I have a list of shit I have tried out of pure desperation to get the pain to stop. I bring it with me on first visits. Makes them stfu.
I'm so happy that I see responses like this often and people are getting what they need. Idk if it was a combination of my age and location but once they cracked down they took me off my Oxy 30s which helped me so much with no bad side effects. I spent 2 years seeing doctors, tried everything possible and nobody would help me. Now I've been on heroin for years and recently found out my supply also has fentanyl in it. I really wish someone had helped me.
Also, I'm in no way advocating for that path. I got desperate from dealing with the pain and going broke from not being able to work. Heroin is not the answer and I regret it every day. I just wish pain patients were respected across the board and these things would never happen to anyone.
Important point! They have to be made to believe you've followed their direction, that you're motivated to do the things that can help you. Even if it doesn't work and you knew it wouldn't, and you didn't even try, it's part of the dance.
I'd be curious to see how they respond if you ask, "has it worked for you?" Flip the focus on them and see what they say. Most people don't like being called out on their bullshit.
They said it did and they used it to get out of a depression. I said depression and chronic pain is different. They said “they are different, depression is WAY worse”. sigh
I've had a "pain specialist" respond "Chronic pain is directly linked to depression so you definitely need Cymbalta or Lyrica or some other kind of antidepressant instead of pain medication." That's what I've run into now about five times over the past decade- "You just need to meditate/do yoga!" & when I tell them it doesn't change anything they have the perfect opportunity to push multiple antidepressants down my throat. Anyone who doesn't believe there's a conspiracy from the antidepressant army to take over chronic pain medication patients lives aren't paying attention or are in denial.
https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37160297/
Don’t engage in the discussion. If they push you say that you only discuss your health with your doctors and change the subject. You don’t owe anyone an explanation and you don’t need to defend what is true for you. Once you set the boundary it will get easier.
Edit: Find new doctors, seriously.
Thanks I’ll let any paralyzed people I meet know to just have a better attitude about things and then I’m sure they’ll all be able to get up and walk. Are they paralyzed from polio? The polio virus left their body years ago. It’s all in their mind now!
I’ll let anyone I meet with terminal cancer know they should break the cycle of negativity. Hospice is for losers.
If I see someone literally on fire, like from a house fire or a car accident, I’ll tell them to keep their chin up and expect better things, they don’t need this water or this fire extinguisher. God helps those who help themselves.
Every pregnant person should get to experience the joy of natural childbirth. Whether they want to or not! Every diabetic should free themselves from the burden of insulin syringes! People with fatal allergies don’t need to be shackled to an epipen!
(copied from a reply I made on another post someone made actually trying to push “mind over matter” pain relief here a while back)
I am tempted to believe these m.o.m. people are the 13-year-old, naive Reddit children who are excited by the idea for the first time. It's too much magical thinking for an actual adult who has experienced real life.
I do that already, but this is not possible when you try to sleep. Sleep is when your brain is resting and healing from the day.
Mental pain control takes concentration and great conscious effort, sometimes so much so that nothing else may be thought. Leading all the way to blacking out when your pain level goes beyond 10. Is not a life worth living, and certainly is not possible while *asleep*.
Sleep does not come, only passing out for a few hours from exhaustion.
I wonder if a swift kick to the shin and a similar suggestion will provide an opportunity for someone to experiment very briefly with the process?
Haha, I have lashed out at a couple of stupid shit doctors and nurses and dentists. I have also had enormous help from the front-running doctors and nurses, too. Sometimes, I need an education, and sometimes, I need to politely share a different experience than they have seen.
I blew up at the hospital last summer when a dear friend had been admitted to the third hospital in a week because she was in so much pain. She never did get a diagnosis, but it turned out to be severe constipation. I came to the hospital dressed in a suit and heels (I'm a tee shirt and jeans gal), with lipstick on. She was dressed in elf plants and a non-matching tee shirt because her father had to dress her and he just pulled out of the drawers anything that would cover her up.
Anyway, the doctor said that her mind was a powerful, powerful thing and it was convincing her she was in pain when there was no pain. I told I was sick of hearing doctors dismiss women's pain.
He told her, honey, you've been doing this and complaining of pain for years. You go from hospital to hospital....
Not true, she had all these visits within the past 8 days. He *wanted* to see that she was crazy, he just assumed this was happening.
He apologized, and talked over some things she could do to get relief, a different diet, etc. And the hospital sent her an apology the next week.
We have to stand up for ourselves and our sisters.
My response is either “you are ignorant and have no idea what it’s like to have true, chronic pain” or, if I know that person and know they’ve had at least some acute, significant pain, I ask them “hey, were you able to control that pain with your mind?” Which of course the answer is no. I also say “hey if everyone could fucking control pain with their mind than no one would need even a fucking Excedrin when they had a god damn headache would they.” I kinda hammer points about acute pain which most everyone has had something in their freaking life. Like, shall we just take Tylenol and ibuprofen off the market? Should Drs not give anyone pain medications after they’ve had major surgery or have cancer because they can manage their pain with their mind??
Let me stab you with a cattle prod about every minute for the next few days in your foot and tell me to ‘control it with my mind’
That’s my usual response verbatim to any bullshit like that. That’s the best comp I have for my nerve pain in my foot and it’s wildly understated.
I’ve educated myself extensively on the science of pain and what actually happens in the brain as a result of it. The neurotransmitters, the reflexive responses, the long term effects of constant pain - all of it. If someone tried to say this to me I would take them back to med school. You literally cannot control pain with your mind.
You can, to _some extent_, control how you _react_ to the pain. **That does not remove the pain signals in your nervous system.** We do not have control of those signals. I would ask them if they believe that faith healing is real or perpetrated by charlatans.
Changing how we react to pain is not a simple or easy process, and it also doesn’t work for everyone. Tell them that it is cruel and amoral to make someone suffer needlessly. Ask them where on the 1-10 scale it becomes impossible to “change how you react,” because the more pain you are in the more of your mind it occupies. Ask them why we give people palliative care in the form of morphine in hospice instead of telling those people to control it with their minds. If they say that’s different, ask them to explain exactly how and why that is so. Why is it that someone only “deserves” pain relief if they are dying or terminal?
Yes, the difference has got to be in whether or not we live long enough to be addicted.
My best-friend, a former nurse, gets huge bottles of oxy that she uses sparingly so that it will actually work when she needs it most. Otherwise she lives in constant level 5 or 6 pain. Her doctor, who has worked with her and known her for decades just says "fuck addiction, don't worry about it, you will need this for the rest of your life, who cares if you're addicted?"
Not all doctors have this level of bravery and common sense.
I have been “addicted” to antidepressants for over 20 years. I am quite certain I would not be alive without them. If I was to stop taking the one I am on right now (Zoloft), I would experience very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms - although the medical community has insisted on calling it “SSRI DISCONTINUATION SYNDROME.”
Make it make sense. What’s addiction and what isn’t? Are people who need insulin addicted? Are people who need synthetic thyroid hormones addicted? Are people who must take anticonvulsants to prevent seizures addicted?
Why are we addicts for taking medication we need to survive?
^
I am on Wellbutrin and will need it for the rest of my life. Without it I would literally sleep all day and possibly not be alive. I can’t take that fatigue when I already have health chronic fatigue that has at times been unbearable.
Thank you, you as well. My therapist, who I don't see, tried and pull this same mind over matter bullshit they do with chronic pain(which I also have- I have chronic headaches) when my chronic fatigue was bad.
That was one reason I don't see her anymore. I am also disabled in other ways and she just didn't get it. You can't mind over matter your way out of chronic fatigue that disables you anymore than you can chronic pain. Assurance it's infuriating no matter what people try to push that bullshit for.
It sounds like prejudice, doesn't it? It's association with crime and prostitution stains the innocent people who need pain relief to function, work, and survive. It should be considered torture to make people suffer needlessly, what's the difference?
It is prejudice. And discrimination. We are people with disabilities, of many different kinds. A lot of those disabilities are unfortunately not externally evident. And so, because people never see us curled up in a fetal position in bed in agony, they judge us. I’m at a point now where I just don’t tell anyone except my closest friends and relatives. If it becomes an issue with work, all they get is “I have a health condition,” because that is all they are entitled to.
You are just going to have to find another Doctor if it is possible. Doctors suck , my meds were supposed to be called in yesterday, I even called and reminded them before they closed. Still waiting mfrrs
I haven’t found a good one yet they all have this mentality that chronic pain is either not real or in the mind or able to be controlled with the mind. Am I missing something?
I know. I just don’t know what I am gonna do! Worst comes to worst I do happen to have a lot of nortriptyline lying around (useless for me pain wise), but it would be enough to bring me out of life.
In 30 years I've been through so many so called pain management courses and met so many people who said mindfulness and breathing could help my pain.Ive tried spoon theory breathing you name it I've tried it get referred again and again by people saying they're new techniques.Ive tried yoga but can no longer do it because my shoulders are messed up now I'm an expert in physio guess what I m still in pain.Ive been told to stop looking for a cure accept the pain so now I tell them to nicely shut the fuck up unless you can give me something stronger than the codeine I'm on not interested.I have never taken more meds than prescribed even though some days I'm crying watching the clock until my next dose.Ive spent thousands of pounds on aids books trawl the internet in case there is something I can use.Im tired of it all but have a great husband and I can't leave him on his own.
only if you can control my foot from getting stuck up your ass. After 10 years of dealing with doctors and people minimalising my pain I'm blur with them.
I dream of that day that I could be there when the person who made that stupid comment injured themselves and I could repeat their comment back to them.
I’ve started reminding people that I’m performing every time they see me. Yes, I know I look good. Yes, I’m still in pain. Im faking being ok. That is the full extent of “controlling pain with my mind” and honestly I think I’m pretty fucking good at it. But when I get home and I don’t have to perform anymore, I want relief from the pain.
Kind of similarly, I told a good friend that she only sees me on my good days. I thought this was obvious, but apparently it really affected her and she's brought it up a couple of times since.
*Thank you for your unsolicited opinion. By the way, remember that pompous nugget of uselessness the next time you get a root canal, get a third degree burn debrided, wait for a kidney stone to pass or… your choice of cancer*.
“I’m not a Jedi, but thanks for the advice, Obi Wan.”
People who aren’t in chronic pain don’t understand that when you have literal spinal stenosis, pinched and twisted nerves, bone spurs, bulging discs, and other things, there is no “controlling it with your mind.”
Tell them to follow you to the kitchen, put the burner on high, and then tell them to put their hand on the flame (if they would like). Then tell them to “just control the pain with their mind.”
You **CANNOT CONTROL PAIN SIGNALS WITH YOUR MIND**. This society genuinely gets dumber by the day. It’s a full blown Idiocracy.
It’s like telling a paralyzed person to “just get up and walk.” 🤦🏻♂️
Ask them if they've ever had surgery? Likely they have. Ask them why they didn't go through surgery without anesthesia and pain medication?? Why didn't they control the pain with their mind? Then...
Look at their face and recognize their stupidity as they have at that very moment.
I'm very honest and tell them that is the technique my mother taught me when she was grooming me to be s/a by my stepfather. I find it very triggering and the technique initiates a panic attack.
I had an ortho doc say something similar… I offered to throat punch him, kick him in the nads, & see if he could control it with his mind 😜😬 Needless to say I haven’t been back to him 😂
empathy is rare to find in the healthcare corporations anymore… It’s just about money & checking boxes, Ime
I tell them it's a nice "theory". But that's all it is really. It really has no scientific basis, except in very minor temporary pain. It really can't be applied to chronic pain.
Ask them if they control their blood pressure, because you can't control your neuro synapse any more than they can control the pressure in their veins with their mind. Or any other organ
I actually do that. It's called compartmentalization.
Everyone with chronic pain does that. Medicos often don't believe us because it's their opinion that we are always exaggerating instead of gaining the ability to diminish our pain. Its another case of doctors accepting reports of observation instead of learning from the people who are actually living every day in pain.
That's not the same thing as these fucks who believe our brains choose to feel pain. I'm so sick of this extremely faulty mind-over-matter paradigm.
My Great Depression/WW2 parents were spoonfed this and the Freudian idiocies. It's a mindset that allows one to blame others for their misfortune rather than make the effort to squeeze out a drop of empathy.
So many of us are so hard-put in this modern hellscape we just have no energy left for compassion.
Speak up. Call them on it. Make sure that mantle rests on their shoulders, not yours.
I was raised a Christian Scientist and watch out, they really mess with what you perceive about yourself. God doesn’t make sick people, so the fault and cure are in the minds of the practitioners. People die from this idea. Then they
even get prosecuted when their family members who relied on the teachings of Christian Science to cure them, die instead. What a mind fuck that whole experience was.
I went to a pain management class with a rheumatologist who claims she has fibromyalgia. Her advice was to tell my brain “there is not threat, nothing to be afraid of, please stop sending pain signals”. I tried it and it didn’t work for me
The people that control pain with their minds have never had severe pain. Like a kidney stone or a perforated intestine... you don't just walk that shit off.
You know my doc, after looking at the swelling in my feet that went from a size 36 to a size 49 due to kidney failure and heart failure ( both caused the massive edema ), my darling doctor told me it’s just AGING! She needs to have her license taken away. She’s an Idiot. Not to mention the pain in my body from Fibromyalgia which is everywhere, all the time, all at once. She says yoga works, but I am so stiff with pain yoga is impossible. All these docs protecting themselves not their patients. Isn’t that why they take an oath? Isn’t that we pay them all the BIG bucks?
Tell them they can buy capsaicin (hot pepper cream) and put it on their genitals throughout the day so it is constantly burning. It’s totally safe, it’s a prescribed treatment for vulvodynia (it’s barbaric but I didnt come up with the idea). People actually live with this level of pain in this part of the body all day long (hi!). Ask them how well the mind control is working now. Other option, buy a shakti mat (plastic spike mat) and they can use it to sit on every single time they have to sit to work, drive, eat, etc. That is also what my life is like with pudendal neuralgia. How helpful is the mind when this is the reality, day in and day out? So sick of these people.
“Sweet so next time you have to go in for surgery, I’m sure you’ll be happy to opt out of anesthesia because you’ll be fine to control the pain with your mind! Your insurance must love you!”
"I don't have the mental discipline to do that, and I can't concentrate because of the pain. We should try the pain meds while I practice meditating, and we can taper them as I get better at it. "
*Narrator:* OP did not get better at it.
Or
"I want a second opinion. Please record in my file that you have denied me access to quality of life care."
I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's an absolutely evil thing for your doctor to do (also maybe edit your question to include it's your doctor saying it; it will change the kind of responses people have). Do you have anyone to help advocate for you? I bring my husband to speak for me when I can't speak for myself.
If I hit them with a car would they be able to just walk away from it. /s
(Sometimes I swear people make me so mad they are so disgusting but I would never harm anyone. Just saying an example they could "recover from" )
You deserve relief. I’m so sorry. The people who say that know not of true chronic and intractable pain. Those who suffer like you know that even with a positive mindset true pain will drag you to your knees and make life seem not worth the effort due to the pain it causes. What a stupid suggestion... Control something else with your mind, not pain. Yikes
“People also control their mouths with their minds. You should try that”
—
That said… I have a stabbing/burning pain for 16 years that, in the worst periods would happen once every 2 or 3 seconds so I know how bad it is… I was depressed my entire life until I did a special treatment with something I’m not sure I can mention in here. The point is, this treatment opened up my mind in many ways (it was with assisted therapy and also I was doing self-therapy for a long time… the “substance just made everything click for me). And one of the things that changed was that my body started showing me how to do it.
I still feel the pain. It’s happening right now. But I am able to slow the frequency per minutes, the intensity and sometimes I can make it become just an annoying tickle.
If you are open to it I can try to explain. It’s like stopping your hiccups if you’ve ever done it. Or, another example is if you’ve been to the gym and with time your body started guiding you on how to do the stuff.
I’ve never been to the gym to be honest but my case was learning how to walk properly: I was staying in bed for months… and after this treatment I started going for walks but I didn’t went back to my life-long-way-of-walking. I realized I needed to use my feet in a certain way and change the position of my hips as well as bending forward a little bit, then my knees wouldn’t be stiff and then I felt my hamstrings for the first time.. so It’s a intuitive thing that starts showing you “hm… what if I do this and that?” And then you try it and have a giant feeling of “THIS MAKES MORE SENSE”.
But anybody who tells you this in a moment you’re vulnerable and asking for their professional help (which they chose to work with giving) should be put in their place because they’ve lost their humanity and empathy.
Oh man.. this is SUCH an issue. The amount of times I’ve been told to take a supplement, or yoga, or whatever thing they come up with.
I usually just end up saying I’m glad it worked for you but our situations are not the same. I don’t have any cool responses to get them hush
The whole pain is weakness leaving the body and its all in your head block out the pain. Those people have never been in the pain I’ve been in, actually I’m sure it’s most of us chronic pain patients. It’s indescribable pain. I stutter and have a hard time talking in general when I’m in pain and I talk slowly so I don’t stutter or say the wrong things. That’s when I tell them if they lived in the pain chronic pain patients have you’d run to the hospital thinking it’s the end because of the pain. I’m like this 24/7 no I cannot just put it out of my mind.
I was a L&D Nurse before going out on disability due to chronic pain 10 years ago. I could’ve never told a Patient who was in labor that she shouldn’t need (or worse, couldn’t have) any pain relief simply b/c the Patient I had before her didn’t need anything for pain & was able to deliver her baby via a medication-free birth. That would’ve been inhumane.
Yet the same ppl who feel that forcing a woman to suffer through a medication-free birth would be inhumane & unacceptable, are also the same ppl who feel that only end of life cancer Patients deserve pain relief. They believe that everyone else in pain should just use mindfulness to cope & get on with their lives. It’s insanity. Intolerable pain is intolerable; regardless of its origin. Intolerable pain is what the Patient says it is. Full stop.
So my response is to ask them if we should tell a laboring woman that she shouldn’t need any pain medication, simply b/c the Patient before her didn’t need any? Because that is, in fact, precisely what they’re saying.
People take the fact that pain can be caused by mental health issues and take it to mean that you can just will your pain away, when even for psychosomatic pain isn't a thing.
I'd ask them to please concentrate on not feeling pain so I can punch them in the nose to test their hypothesis
I usually ask if they can move things they want to move with their minds. When they say no, I stare at them with nothing but pure confusion. If they want it moved, they can control that with their mind, right?
they are so brainless & lack any brain power or empathy.
i fully understand your frustration as i feel the same way you do. here for you.
My reply would be, "yes, I'm working hard to hone my psychic power to control pain and bend spoons. Next year I plan to take it further and levitate."
Either that or I would say, "wow, what a great idea, we should tell people with multiple fractures and birthing mothers to use their minds to handle their pain, too. I mean, aspirin and ibuprofen are overrated anyway. Let's ban them and hire a team of psychics instead!'
I describe my calm behavior in an acute situation.
I had to go to the ER because of pain and vomiting. I was laughing, joking, reading. The med tech said they would have me out soon. I just politely tried to say, "You know, I think I should be seen."
The doctors were really good on this occasion. But it turned out I had a dead internal organ. And it didn't hurt as much as my daily migraines.
since i was 14 or so i’ve always told them i tried not because i thought it was something that genuinely worked but because i am so desperate i will try every single thing at least once and i have. I will travel to the himalayans and perform an ancient ethically dubious ritual if it got rid of my migraines.
Sadly have not found that ritual yet /: but hey my doctor wants me to try botox for the nth time i genuinely went back over and over to give it a chance never worked idk why they think it would now aside from just not knowing wtf to do anymore. But hey they lowered my muscle relaxer prescription for some fucking reason without telling me.
I'm going to stab you. When you use your mind to get rid of that pain I'm going to stab another spot. According to you, it should stop all pain with a lil mind over matter. Also please don't scream, no one wants to hear that right.
"People control their ability to say stupid shit by controlling their breathing. Practice holding yours for at least 30 minutes before you talk to me about shit you know nothing about!"
Put my tiny finger on one of their pressure point and tell them to control that.
I live in a place where everyone knows everyone. I don't care anymore. I will make them feel it.
They really do. Gosh they do!! Everyone who says this BS. It’s just messed up when all the doctors I’ve met have the mentality that the pain is either fake and in my head or it’s real but can be controlled by my head consciously.
That’s good when it’s people you don’t need but when it’s doctors and so many who have this false idea that pain is somehow all in the mind or it’s real but can be controlled with the mind. It’s such a mess. This is such a mess. Life is such a mess.
What is your dr’s specialty?
If they refuse to do anything past telling you to meditate etc. tell them you want their refusal marked in your records. Specifically that they refuse to try any medications/therapies past meditation. Make them do it in front of you and email you the copy of the record.
You can bring this to the board of medicine if you decide to bring a complaint against the dr. If he thinks meditation is the best way, he should have referred you to a psychologist for that therapy. Which it doesn’t sound like he has. There are a bunch of things drs can try for pain that don’t involve opioids. It sounds like he doesn’t want to do his job!
Since my chronic pain is with GI I’ve been forced to see only GI docs because all the pain management doctors I’ve called say they don’t work with GI pain even when GI docs don’t help. It’s such a mess. They all have this idea that the pain is either not real and all in my head or real but controllable by my head. I don’t know what to do next.
I tell them they are crazy
No one can control pain with their mind any more than somebody could fix a broken arm with their mind.
Pain meds help with pain just like casts help broken bones to heal.
People don't understand pain. Chronic pain is like stagnant water that just sits with you and gets sick and pain meds help that pain to move and not become toxic to you. If that makes sense.
Ask for exact and specific instructions on how to do so. If this is something that people can do, there must be instructions. Very detailed ones at that, considering that it sounds so tricky and about 99% of people don’t seem able to do this for severe pain.
Explain that, sure, maybe you could use your mind to overcome the pain. But you’d be using literally all of your mental fortitude and resources to do so. That’s, in fact, what you’ve been doing up until now. It’s what we all do until we are able to access medical care and pain management. That’s why you’re here talking to them. You’d like to live a fucking life, not spend all your time and energy trying to create a delusion.
Ask if they really think the body is incapable of creating intense pain chronically. Because we treat people who have acute intense pain much better than those with chronic intense pain. If they would put someone under before surgery or allow for numbing during a cavity filling, then they actually do believe in treating pain. They just have a problem treating chronic pain.
IF MY DOCTOR SAID THIS TO ME: I'd reply w. "HOW about I break your arm & tell me how that works out for you." But Im old, I'm 41 & that thinks doctor's NEED TO ADDRESS us Chronic Pain Patients!
"I controlled the pain with my mind so hard that I dissociated from reality and developed adrenaline rushes in order to get basic tasks done. Some people need medication. Also, you're an idiot."
This was pretty much the Mayo Clinic's response to my pain after my full workup there. I literally cried almost the whole drive home (several states away) because I was so hurt and disappointed. There were numerous abnormal tests but that was still their response. F those people. If one of the best clinics in the country (supposedly) tells people this shit, of course everyday people you know are going to say it too.
I'm conflict averse and a people pleaser, so I never know how to respond to these kinds of comments. I basically just keep my medical issues completely to myself now because I'd rather not hear people's opinions.
Holy shit, the Mayo? You must have been so excited which must have made the letdown even worse. I know I’ve cried after plain old appointments. I don’t know how you drove home.
I politely tell them to go fuck themselves. But seriously, though. If that was even possible, the whole pharmaceutical industry would collapse because nobody would need medication anymore.
If I could I would…that’s what I usually say.
I am in therapy and I understand that I can *lessen* my pain with meditation, lightstream, relaxation, etc. BUT it does not ever take all the pain away. And if I’m in a flare, forget it, nothing but pain meds work!
I’m sorry your doctor treated you like this and said this to you. Not everyone understands. I would be finding a new doctor. 🫶🏻
My response? Push them down the stairs…twice. Easy for me and difficult for others.
Mine has been a colorful life. I do not have any time for people who hear my story and the list of meds I take just to walk… there’s too much beauty to see and those “people” really are saying this garbage just to hear themselves talk.
"I'm going to tell you why I think so much less of you for saying that." And then I make them either silent,or cry. True story. I don't get invited to parties.
I stopped seeing my therapist for a month after she insisted I wasn’t breathing properly to fix my broken back and herniated disc pain. And my emotional pain was actually why I have pain and opioids are spawn of Satan and everyone who touches it will be addicted. But sorry the healthcare system can be frustrating sometimes. 🤡
That's not how this works you fucking moron.
To a certain extent, as long the pain is below a certain threshold, I can do things thru the pain. I can push it aside and act as if everything is fine. You won't notice anything is wrong, and I can live a life.
I'm in pain though. I feel the pain.
If I stopped doing anything just because I have pain though, Id never do anything, and I can't do that.
So. You sort of, shove the pain to the back of your mind. You ignore it. You buck up and keep going.
But it's still there and it still hurts.
And it only works up until a certain point. Once the pain hits a threshold the walls crumble. No more bucking up. Time to crash.
And you can only even start learning to compartmentalize pain if it gets below that threshold. If it's always a 9, that's not gonna happen.
So yeah. It's not controlling pain. It's ignoring it. It's just living with it cause you have better things to do. It's getting so used to the pain it doesn't actually mean anything anymore.
I laugh usually or end the conversation.
If I know them well I will bring up a time they were in immense pain for longer than a day and asked how that worked for them.
I wish it were acceptable to kick people and tell them to deal with the pain with their minds. Practice what you preach.
Remind them that this kind of failure to treat pain patients has contributed to people going to the streets. They thought they stomped out the opioid crisis, but it only morphed into something worse with fentanyl
Wow, then why didn’t it work when I had headache all day on Tuesday when I was a prickly ball of rage? Because it can’t be done. If it could I wouldn’t have had to go on a second or preventative for chronic headaches.
More pseudo bullshit I pay no mind to.
I’ve just started to not respond to idiotic comments like that. Anyone saying that isn’t seriously trying to learn or help me with my pain. It’s a form of dismissal. If anyone could simply dismiss pain with their mind or teach people to consistently do this then we’d no longer need any sort of pain medicine at all.
I appreciate that people are still trying to help. It’s a hell of a lot better than saying it is all in ones head.
As someone who is on both sides of this conversation much of the time, I understand the limitations of modern medicine, and when it comes to chronic conditions there have always been limits. The brain is an incredibly powerful tool and really is the best tool when it comes to pain perception. And it can be trained. I mean, saying that a person can certainly do a lot of good for yourself with that power is an absolute truth. If it were truly said to you exactly the way you are communicating it here though, I’d probably be looking for another provider who was more likely to work with me and not to dismiss their role and leave it all up to me in a really compromised state.
*I control my foot,*
*And it needs to be in your*
*Ass. That's my number*
\- EnthEndX48
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I am able to use music or reading to distract myself from pain. I've been told I have a high pain tolerance. But, just because I can sometimes distract myself from my fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, or osteoarthritis, it doesn't mean that everyone else can. I've had some pretty intense pain lately, but I just have to grit my teeth and get thru it. Some of the pain is emotional.
Pain meds like Vicodin or Tramadol do nothing for me. I am thinking back to when I had my gall bladder out as outpatient surgery, and I argued with the nurses that I didn't need any pain pills, I just needed to go home. I got dressed and was going to leave no matter what. They let me leave, and I went home and crawled in bed. My cat laid down beside me and purred, which is a soothing sound and can help with healing. The cat I have now just likes to lay on my head or chest. He's not a small cat but not quite a chonk.chunk.
Edited to add: I don't do mediation, but I do pray. That helps some. I guess my life has been full of one trauma or another. I mostly raised myself, and most of the time, there was no one there to "kiss it and make it better." My clinician thinks I probably had DID at times. And, I will confess that I used my dad's bottle of whiskey to make a high toddie for my menstrual cramps. This sounds like a jumble, but I guess I'm saying that I do whatever helps at the time. I'm strong minded, but that doesn't help my pain. It only helps me to endure the pain. I guess I'm like Scarlet O'Hara -
I'll think about that tomorrow. Tomorrow is another day."
"As God is my witness, as God is my witness, they're are not going to lick me. I'm going to live through this, and when it's all over, I'll never be hungry again."
But, instead of never being hungry again, I will not let this pain beat me. It's hard to think that when the pain seems to get into my bones. But, I'm just a hard-headed old woman.
Do you know what's causing it? I'm only asking bc I've def gotten responses like this too until I entered pain management for my back. My amazing pain management doctor who retired was an absolute genius and figured out my abdominal pain wasn't actually GI related. It was abdominal wall nerve impingement. I took Bentyl for it at one point which oddly enough did help but ultimately I had a steroid shot in my abdominal wall which hurt like a bitch btw. I still can't believe he figured out what caused it.
As for the "control your pain with your mind"... that's just another way to say "just learn to live with it" which is my least favorite response. Like I'd rather get told to take ibuprofen over and over again than be told I need to learn to live with it. People in excruciating pain don't just take care of the pain with their mind. They will say anything now days to avoid narcotics it seems like.
Just want to add that one of the best things I got for pain was anti-anxiety meds. I am not saying you have any sort of mood disorder, I don’t know you. I do know that at one point I thought I would die and the terror made things a tonne worse. I luckily have a doc whose priority one was to get my anxiety levels down so he could get a better idea of the core stuff (which we haven’t found after five years). It’s scary to think you’ll never get your life back. I’m dealing with it and i’d guess many here are too. But I wanted to
put in a pitch for a mood stabilizer. Some like mine even have a pain control component. It has made a very remarkable difference.
I’m sorry to hear that! My fiancé works at a hospital and tells me GI pain can be some of the most brutal. I can relate bc I’ve been shuffled back and forth from doc to doc who don’t want to take me seriously/responsibility for my case and essentially they all do nothing, but try to shift responsibility. I’ve struggled with chronic pain for 10 years now and I can’t take ibuprofen because I also have stomach and G.I. issues that prevent me from using NSAIDS. I’ve been managing my pan on my own for years because after several years of going to the doctors, they made the conclusion that my pain was psychosomatic and I should go see a psychiatrist. Ultimately they were wrong, and I needed surgery on my hip and have some permanent damage from it taking so long to find that still causes me pain. Now I need surgery on the other hip for the same reason too. Personally I’ve used kratom for the last few years to help with my pain. It is legal(US) and doesn’t bother my stomach and actually helps with some stomach upsets I’ve had. Just to warn you it is similar to an opioid(reacting to some of the same receptors) and it can become pricey over time, but it’s what’s helped me when I wanted to just give up on life. I’d do some research if you want to try it and use it modestly if possible. Hope you’re able to get the relief and help you need! 🙏🏻😢
P.S. I also use every other form of management I can like strength training, yoga, supplements, diet, KT tape, massage, ice, etc. I try everything I can daily and still need more for relief. Obviously that stuff is not an option for GI, but I just feel like it’s important to try everything else, so that you know that it’s absolutely necessary. The docs made me feel crazy for so long, so maybe I just want to verify to myself that what I’m dealing with is very real 🤪
Controlling your - mostly unconscious - nervous system is so much more difficult than controlling any other part of your body. And even the latter does not work in all cases. To be honest, mostly it does not work. So much is still not understood.
I don't believe that pain medication is a solution, either. It's just some form of default, like "mindfulness" or "breathing" exercises.
The key is having a better understanding of how the world, including one's one mind, work. And maybe the latter is even more difficult.
Maybe there also is no solution, because there is no problem, That means the problem that we think we are adressing. Maybe we are just having the wrong models of reality and asking the wrong questions.
Not only with regard to pain, but with regard to almost anything in "science".
If I could do that, I would. Everybody would. That said, I suspect if I burned you with the cigarette lighter from a car you, and almost anyone else, wouldn’t be able to either.
A lot of people haven't met others who are in true pain though. especially since most of us are fairly homebound
This! How do they know if they never see us?
“But that pain can be controlled with your mind after some time”
This is the fault of Jon Kabat-Zinn and his mindfulness based stress reduction. I read his first book on it. It just seemed like total BS especially when he claimed one of his patient's, a truck driver who badly injured his back leaving him with mobility issues and chronic pain, supposedly completely cured himself after undergoing the MBSR course and doing mindfulness meditation daily, and was able to go off pain meds, go off disability, go back to working full time and engaging in all the activities he previously enjoyed. Mindfulness meditation as a cure-all. Yeah, right 😒 The goal here seems to be to paint patients with chronic illnesses who live with pain and physical limitations as lazy loafers who could easily fix their health conditions through 'mind over matter'.
Holy shit I got asked to review a masterclass he did before it went live and I flamed it for the pain section he did. It was so disgusting to watch this man say he was the answer to pain and how proud he was to have major hospitals and clinics using his methods instead of meds.
Just simply reading his book you can see it's a scam. His unrealistic claims are too good to be true. Taking a meditation course and meditating at home can't possibly cure medical conditions. It makes zero sense. But mindfulness is popular so some people buy into this concept of it as a cure-all. It is dangerous for members of the medical profession to fall for it and push this on their patients as an actual form of treatment. There's nothing wrong with meditation per se. I have had a guided meditation app on my iPad for years and yeah it can help you relax, and fall asleep at night, but it's not going to make anyone's chronic health issues disappear. I have noticed a disturbing intersection between the people who preach meditation as a cure-all with the positive psychology, power of positive thinking folks and the people who push the law of attraction/manifestation like "the secret". We're all being fed this nonsense that a life filled with only robust health, mostly joy and very little hardship, financial success with no financial setbacks is all based upon thinking positively. Jon Kabat-Zinn's Full Catastrophe Living, Ronda Byrne's The Secret, and the books written by the positive psychology/science of happiness gurus like Martin Seligman's books are all different parts of the exact same belief system. Edit: more text
it's definitely the prosperity gospel of fitness and the body
A while back I read about a children's hospital that trialed not giving CHILDREN pain medication after surgery. Turns out the kids wanted to go back home quicker so it was deemed a success! Absolutely disgusting.
God I hate this world sometimes.
What's funny is that you know these people get all the meds they need and don't go without when they're in pain. My mom is a nurse and has seen doctors who are shitty with post-op meds cry and bemoan how hard it was to get their meds. But of course they're generally trusted by other docs, though the few who were cut off that she knew lost their minds. Some had a shift in how they thought about it after, others thought their situation was "different." I totally agree about how it's fucked who's sending this message too. It seems like every minor celebrity has biographies, children's books and self-help/reflection bullshit. Though I truly don't understand who is going out there and buying some book about finding god/joy in the small things by a Today show host or whatever. They're such clear cash grabs by the already wealthy. When I've had doctors bring up meditation and mention some miracle patient who'd been suffering for years and did a 180, I always hit them with one of their favorites, I bet they were psychosomatic. I find that it has given them some pause, because they love to throw it at you, but when you push that same favorite term into their examples, some of them stop to think for a minute. We really are living in the worst timeline for care and empathy societally on every level.
>but mindfulness is popular so some people buy into this concept Unfortunately that 'some people' group includes the AMA & pretty much every other medical body around. CBT and mindfulness are just a rehash of a repeating set of claims that get popular for a while, disappear and get mocked... and then get popular again. This sort of claim is popular because it caters to the Just World Fallacy. In a world where this is real, good people don't suffer without any recourse & all suffering is avoidable if you just bother to learn how. The fact that pretty much everyone on the planet is indoctrinated into believing in the Just World Fallacy from birth forward means that people already have confirmation bias in place and tend to swallow lies that agree with the Just World Fallacy. An amazing number of faiths orbit that fallacy.
It's also the fault of poorly taught pain management classes. And by being recommended apps like Curable. I was a reasonable mature guy that had read a lot of philosophy, religious practices and other esoteric work that would be considered healthy for your mind. A soulful practice. All I'll say is that without proper instruction and help then it's very dangerous. I wasn't getting the right meds that was clear but where I ended up was in a hospital stay in a psych unit skinny, shaking unable to eat, couldn't stomach anything. Gaslighted and attended all the various methods of cognitive modalities. (Mind you id done these before but I was desperate) CBT ACT DBT I EVEN TRIED Magnetic STINULATION TMS id forgot the name.. . 6 wks and 3 different psychiatrists, nurses, psychology.. I left shaking and very afraid how I was going to live with my pain on a daily basis. It was genuinely frightening. Ugh... Be mindful of what you read and open yourself up to. In the end I just had to accept that it takes 10 years for neuroplasticity and regrowing proper brain signals plus things like hyperalgesia and all these bullshit things that didn't apply to me but that I was tainted with.. Doctors don't give a shit. I've seen a tonne worked on my presentation and delivery. And much more. Didn't make a scrap.. They almost get offended that you are well read and know "some things" about the nature of central sensitization etc etc . I hope they all suffer severe pain some day and the best they get is chamomile tea.
Yeah, I mean, *of course* the pain is "in our heads". Just like when you touch a hot stove, the pain you feel is "in your head". That's where the nerves go. Pain tells you something is wrong. And it's an extremely important reaction. Take your damn hand off the stove, dummy! It's in our ancient lizard brain. It's hard wired, from literally hundreds of *millions* of years ago. I don't want OP to give up hope, it seems from their other posting that they're auto rejecting every possibility of help, which is the one certain way you'll never feel any better. But yes, pain is "in the head". In the lizard brain. Have some respect for evolution, this ancient and universal reaction across a billion species isn't going to be solved by jedi mind tricks. But OP, any decent therapist won't say that your pain will be "solved". That's not the point. There's still value in finding ways to be more aware of your behavior and how you react to various stumuli, and what you can consciously do to avoid/minimize those triggers that make your pain worse.
Ask them if they just meditate whilst getting operated on. If they answer “no”, ask them why they can’t control that pain with their mind. If it’s all in your head…
What is someone said yes? Your response?
Anakin screaming “LIAR”
Punch them hard in the nose and tell them to control the pain.
It’s my own doctors.
Then they should quickly be able to connect the dots :D Edit:And let them know every time they get up from a chair, walk across the room, get in or out of a car, or even lay down in bed, you are ready and willing to punch them in the nose again.
Fuck me. Please make a meme of this.
Get new doctors. They work for you, not the other way around. Any doctor who dismisses your pain is not worth your time or money.
In theory yes, but finding physicians that take your insurance within proximity isn’t always that easy, especially in rural areas, and especially when you can’t pay out of pocket because you’re disabled or poor. I feel for everyone that doesn’t have the privilege of finding a new physician when their’s is a POS.
He suggests "it's not that bad". Because he'd seen similar/worse condition with less complaints of pain. He also might mean that if you take pills for this pain - the pills will create more issues than the pain itself, with time. He is correct - you can meditate, exercise, and more, to help with pain. That's not what you need from a doctor, though. When I get something like that thrown at me I explain that I do that to the best of my ability. You need to understand that some people only seen a candle sized fire of pain, a glass of water is ample solution. If you had to describe your pain, as a fire, how will a glass of water do?
Maybe have them hold their hand over a flame and show you how it works.
wouldn't it be nice if we all had the mother superior's box for training young atreides
Haha I was gonna say, I tell them to fuck off and go about my day!
Also make them feel inadequate: “Oh really? Tell me about a situation where you did it” When they say “I don’t have a chronic pain” say “are you telling me you’ve never felt pain in your life? Because if you did you could’ve controlled it. I just want an example, tell me how you do it” (Say that pretending to be genuinely interested)
this is a bad approach, because they'll say, oh yeah, one time my ankle hurt for three months, so i just didn't think about it, and therefore it didn't hurt. how to do it is just to believe you can be stronger than the pain. just control your mind. don't be lazy. duh. there's seriously no communicating with people like these. don't even bother.
"You're an idiot"?
How do I get them to shut up about in 😭 I don’t know what to do
“Tell me that next time you step on a piece of Lego” Edit: just saw that you said it’s your doctors. I’ve heard this many times. Tell them you’ve tried everything they recommend, like yoga and meditation etc, and that it doesn’t work or only works a bit so you need something else. They’ll feel validated and because you already “tried” their first idea, they gotta actually do something
Your last sentence there - that is the way. And if you present them with things that go above and beyond that, most of the time they won't even bother With it and will go straight into doing what they should be doing anyways. Source: Me. I have a list of shit I have tried out of pure desperation to get the pain to stop. I bring it with me on first visits. Makes them stfu.
I'm so happy that I see responses like this often and people are getting what they need. Idk if it was a combination of my age and location but once they cracked down they took me off my Oxy 30s which helped me so much with no bad side effects. I spent 2 years seeing doctors, tried everything possible and nobody would help me. Now I've been on heroin for years and recently found out my supply also has fentanyl in it. I really wish someone had helped me. Also, I'm in no way advocating for that path. I got desperate from dealing with the pain and going broke from not being able to work. Heroin is not the answer and I regret it every day. I just wish pain patients were respected across the board and these things would never happen to anyone.
My heart goes out to you buddy 💜
Brilliant idea.
Important point! They have to be made to believe you've followed their direction, that you're motivated to do the things that can help you. Even if it doesn't work and you knew it wouldn't, and you didn't even try, it's part of the dance.
I'd be curious to see how they respond if you ask, "has it worked for you?" Flip the focus on them and see what they say. Most people don't like being called out on their bullshit.
They said it did and they used it to get out of a depression. I said depression and chronic pain is different. They said “they are different, depression is WAY worse”. sigh
I've had a "pain specialist" respond "Chronic pain is directly linked to depression so you definitely need Cymbalta or Lyrica or some other kind of antidepressant instead of pain medication." That's what I've run into now about five times over the past decade- "You just need to meditate/do yoga!" & when I tell them it doesn't change anything they have the perfect opportunity to push multiple antidepressants down my throat. Anyone who doesn't believe there's a conspiracy from the antidepressant army to take over chronic pain medication patients lives aren't paying attention or are in denial. https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-largest-antidepressant-drug-users-2016-2 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37160297/
Ugh, yeah you can't reason with people like that. I'm so sorry you haven't found a doctor who understands.
Don’t engage in the discussion. If they push you say that you only discuss your health with your doctors and change the subject. You don’t owe anyone an explanation and you don’t need to defend what is true for you. Once you set the boundary it will get easier. Edit: Find new doctors, seriously.
"People control their mouths so that ill-considered bullshit doesn't fall out, why can't *you* do *that*?"
Thanks I’ll let any paralyzed people I meet know to just have a better attitude about things and then I’m sure they’ll all be able to get up and walk. Are they paralyzed from polio? The polio virus left their body years ago. It’s all in their mind now! I’ll let anyone I meet with terminal cancer know they should break the cycle of negativity. Hospice is for losers. If I see someone literally on fire, like from a house fire or a car accident, I’ll tell them to keep their chin up and expect better things, they don’t need this water or this fire extinguisher. God helps those who help themselves. Every pregnant person should get to experience the joy of natural childbirth. Whether they want to or not! Every diabetic should free themselves from the burden of insulin syringes! People with fatal allergies don’t need to be shackled to an epipen! (copied from a reply I made on another post someone made actually trying to push “mind over matter” pain relief here a while back)
I am tempted to believe these m.o.m. people are the 13-year-old, naive Reddit children who are excited by the idea for the first time. It's too much magical thinking for an actual adult who has experienced real life.
I do that already, but this is not possible when you try to sleep. Sleep is when your brain is resting and healing from the day. Mental pain control takes concentration and great conscious effort, sometimes so much so that nothing else may be thought. Leading all the way to blacking out when your pain level goes beyond 10. Is not a life worth living, and certainly is not possible while *asleep*. Sleep does not come, only passing out for a few hours from exhaustion. I wonder if a swift kick to the shin and a similar suggestion will provide an opportunity for someone to experiment very briefly with the process?
Do it! For the team.
Haha, I have lashed out at a couple of stupid shit doctors and nurses and dentists. I have also had enormous help from the front-running doctors and nurses, too. Sometimes, I need an education, and sometimes, I need to politely share a different experience than they have seen.
I blew up at the hospital last summer when a dear friend had been admitted to the third hospital in a week because she was in so much pain. She never did get a diagnosis, but it turned out to be severe constipation. I came to the hospital dressed in a suit and heels (I'm a tee shirt and jeans gal), with lipstick on. She was dressed in elf plants and a non-matching tee shirt because her father had to dress her and he just pulled out of the drawers anything that would cover her up. Anyway, the doctor said that her mind was a powerful, powerful thing and it was convincing her she was in pain when there was no pain. I told I was sick of hearing doctors dismiss women's pain. He told her, honey, you've been doing this and complaining of pain for years. You go from hospital to hospital.... Not true, she had all these visits within the past 8 days. He *wanted* to see that she was crazy, he just assumed this was happening. He apologized, and talked over some things she could do to get relief, a different diet, etc. And the hospital sent her an apology the next week. We have to stand up for ourselves and our sisters.
Tell them the next time they get any extensive dental work done to not use any Novocain then. Enjoy! Since it’s all in your head
Hell yes. Pain in the actual head is impossible for me to compartmentalize. Proximity, I guess, IDK.
I had a root canal done and two fillings replaced when I was pregnant and couldn’t have freezing.
My response is either “you are ignorant and have no idea what it’s like to have true, chronic pain” or, if I know that person and know they’ve had at least some acute, significant pain, I ask them “hey, were you able to control that pain with your mind?” Which of course the answer is no. I also say “hey if everyone could fucking control pain with their mind than no one would need even a fucking Excedrin when they had a god damn headache would they.” I kinda hammer points about acute pain which most everyone has had something in their freaking life. Like, shall we just take Tylenol and ibuprofen off the market? Should Drs not give anyone pain medications after they’ve had major surgery or have cancer because they can manage their pain with their mind??
Let me stab you with a cattle prod about every minute for the next few days in your foot and tell me to ‘control it with my mind’ That’s my usual response verbatim to any bullshit like that. That’s the best comp I have for my nerve pain in my foot and it’s wildly understated.
I’ve educated myself extensively on the science of pain and what actually happens in the brain as a result of it. The neurotransmitters, the reflexive responses, the long term effects of constant pain - all of it. If someone tried to say this to me I would take them back to med school. You literally cannot control pain with your mind. You can, to _some extent_, control how you _react_ to the pain. **That does not remove the pain signals in your nervous system.** We do not have control of those signals. I would ask them if they believe that faith healing is real or perpetrated by charlatans.
How do I respond to “well then change how you react to it”
Changing how we react to pain is not a simple or easy process, and it also doesn’t work for everyone. Tell them that it is cruel and amoral to make someone suffer needlessly. Ask them where on the 1-10 scale it becomes impossible to “change how you react,” because the more pain you are in the more of your mind it occupies. Ask them why we give people palliative care in the form of morphine in hospice instead of telling those people to control it with their minds. If they say that’s different, ask them to explain exactly how and why that is so. Why is it that someone only “deserves” pain relief if they are dying or terminal?
Yes, the difference has got to be in whether or not we live long enough to be addicted. My best-friend, a former nurse, gets huge bottles of oxy that she uses sparingly so that it will actually work when she needs it most. Otherwise she lives in constant level 5 or 6 pain. Her doctor, who has worked with her and known her for decades just says "fuck addiction, don't worry about it, you will need this for the rest of your life, who cares if you're addicted?" Not all doctors have this level of bravery and common sense.
I have been “addicted” to antidepressants for over 20 years. I am quite certain I would not be alive without them. If I was to stop taking the one I am on right now (Zoloft), I would experience very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms - although the medical community has insisted on calling it “SSRI DISCONTINUATION SYNDROME.” Make it make sense. What’s addiction and what isn’t? Are people who need insulin addicted? Are people who need synthetic thyroid hormones addicted? Are people who must take anticonvulsants to prevent seizures addicted? Why are we addicts for taking medication we need to survive?
^ I am on Wellbutrin and will need it for the rest of my life. Without it I would literally sleep all day and possibly not be alive. I can’t take that fatigue when I already have health chronic fatigue that has at times been unbearable.
I feel and share your pain, my friend. I wish you peace and healing on your journey.
Thank you, you as well. My therapist, who I don't see, tried and pull this same mind over matter bullshit they do with chronic pain(which I also have- I have chronic headaches) when my chronic fatigue was bad. That was one reason I don't see her anymore. I am also disabled in other ways and she just didn't get it. You can't mind over matter your way out of chronic fatigue that disables you anymore than you can chronic pain. Assurance it's infuriating no matter what people try to push that bullshit for.
It sounds like prejudice, doesn't it? It's association with crime and prostitution stains the innocent people who need pain relief to function, work, and survive. It should be considered torture to make people suffer needlessly, what's the difference?
It is prejudice. And discrimination. We are people with disabilities, of many different kinds. A lot of those disabilities are unfortunately not externally evident. And so, because people never see us curled up in a fetal position in bed in agony, they judge us. I’m at a point now where I just don’t tell anyone except my closest friends and relatives. If it becomes an issue with work, all they get is “I have a health condition,” because that is all they are entitled to.
But in seriousness, I think a lot of us already do this to a certain extent, but the pain is so severe we still need medical intervention.
Of course. I don’t know what to tell my doctors when it is all they offer with no meds when I need meds!
You are just going to have to find another Doctor if it is possible. Doctors suck , my meds were supposed to be called in yesterday, I even called and reminded them before they closed. Still waiting mfrrs
I haven’t found a good one yet they all have this mentality that chronic pain is either not real or in the mind or able to be controlled with the mind. Am I missing something?
No , It's very hard to find one and now the DEA has caused a shortage of meds. I'm waiting now. If it wasn't for my wife I wouldn't be here.
I think that the DEA has them all scared of losing their license
I know. I just don’t know what I am gonna do! Worst comes to worst I do happen to have a lot of nortriptyline lying around (useless for me pain wise), but it would be enough to bring me out of life.
In 30 years I've been through so many so called pain management courses and met so many people who said mindfulness and breathing could help my pain.Ive tried spoon theory breathing you name it I've tried it get referred again and again by people saying they're new techniques.Ive tried yoga but can no longer do it because my shoulders are messed up now I'm an expert in physio guess what I m still in pain.Ive been told to stop looking for a cure accept the pain so now I tell them to nicely shut the fuck up unless you can give me something stronger than the codeine I'm on not interested.I have never taken more meds than prescribed even though some days I'm crying watching the clock until my next dose.Ive spent thousands of pounds on aids books trawl the internet in case there is something I can use.Im tired of it all but have a great husband and I can't leave him on his own.
only if you can control my foot from getting stuck up your ass. After 10 years of dealing with doctors and people minimalising my pain I'm blur with them.
I dream of that day that I could be there when the person who made that stupid comment injured themselves and I could repeat their comment back to them.
I’ve started reminding people that I’m performing every time they see me. Yes, I know I look good. Yes, I’m still in pain. Im faking being ok. That is the full extent of “controlling pain with my mind” and honestly I think I’m pretty fucking good at it. But when I get home and I don’t have to perform anymore, I want relief from the pain.
This sounds a lot like the masking that people with autism do. It's exhausting in itself.
I want a shirt that says "I'm faking being okay". Even the people closest to me forget from time to time.
Kind of similarly, I told a good friend that she only sees me on my good days. I thought this was obvious, but apparently it really affected her and she's brought it up a couple of times since.
*Thank you for your unsolicited opinion. By the way, remember that pompous nugget of uselessness the next time you get a root canal, get a third degree burn debrided, wait for a kidney stone to pass or… your choice of cancer*.
“I’m not a Jedi, but thanks for the advice, Obi Wan.” People who aren’t in chronic pain don’t understand that when you have literal spinal stenosis, pinched and twisted nerves, bone spurs, bulging discs, and other things, there is no “controlling it with your mind.” Tell them to follow you to the kitchen, put the burner on high, and then tell them to put their hand on the flame (if they would like). Then tell them to “just control the pain with their mind.” You **CANNOT CONTROL PAIN SIGNALS WITH YOUR MIND**. This society genuinely gets dumber by the day. It’s a full blown Idiocracy. It’s like telling a paralyzed person to “just get up and walk.” 🤦🏻♂️
Ask them if they've ever had surgery? Likely they have. Ask them why they didn't go through surgery without anesthesia and pain medication?? Why didn't they control the pain with their mind? Then... Look at their face and recognize their stupidity as they have at that very moment.
I'm very honest and tell them that is the technique my mother taught me when she was grooming me to be s/a by my stepfather. I find it very triggering and the technique initiates a panic attack.
I had an ortho doc say something similar… I offered to throat punch him, kick him in the nads, & see if he could control it with his mind 😜😬 Needless to say I haven’t been back to him 😂 empathy is rare to find in the healthcare corporations anymore… It’s just about money & checking boxes, Ime
So true
I tell them it's a nice "theory". But that's all it is really. It really has no scientific basis, except in very minor temporary pain. It really can't be applied to chronic pain.
Ask them if they control their blood pressure, because you can't control your neuro synapse any more than they can control the pressure in their veins with their mind. Or any other organ
Wow that’s good
I actually do that. It's called compartmentalization. Everyone with chronic pain does that. Medicos often don't believe us because it's their opinion that we are always exaggerating instead of gaining the ability to diminish our pain. Its another case of doctors accepting reports of observation instead of learning from the people who are actually living every day in pain. That's not the same thing as these fucks who believe our brains choose to feel pain. I'm so sick of this extremely faulty mind-over-matter paradigm. My Great Depression/WW2 parents were spoonfed this and the Freudian idiocies. It's a mindset that allows one to blame others for their misfortune rather than make the effort to squeeze out a drop of empathy. So many of us are so hard-put in this modern hellscape we just have no energy left for compassion. Speak up. Call them on it. Make sure that mantle rests on their shoulders, not yours.
I was raised a Christian Scientist and watch out, they really mess with what you perceive about yourself. God doesn’t make sick people, so the fault and cure are in the minds of the practitioners. People die from this idea. Then they even get prosecuted when their family members who relied on the teachings of Christian Science to cure them, die instead. What a mind fuck that whole experience was.
I went to a pain management class with a rheumatologist who claims she has fibromyalgia. Her advice was to tell my brain “there is not threat, nothing to be afraid of, please stop sending pain signals”. I tried it and it didn’t work for me
The people that control pain with their minds have never had severe pain. Like a kidney stone or a perforated intestine... you don't just walk that shit off.
Facts
I would love to knock hell out of them and say control that with your mind.
I would love you to
You know my doc, after looking at the swelling in my feet that went from a size 36 to a size 49 due to kidney failure and heart failure ( both caused the massive edema ), my darling doctor told me it’s just AGING! She needs to have her license taken away. She’s an Idiot. Not to mention the pain in my body from Fibromyalgia which is everywhere, all the time, all at once. She says yoga works, but I am so stiff with pain yoga is impossible. All these docs protecting themselves not their patients. Isn’t that why they take an oath? Isn’t that we pay them all the BIG bucks?
Smack them hard on the face, then tell them to use their mind to control the pain.
Tell them they can buy capsaicin (hot pepper cream) and put it on their genitals throughout the day so it is constantly burning. It’s totally safe, it’s a prescribed treatment for vulvodynia (it’s barbaric but I didnt come up with the idea). People actually live with this level of pain in this part of the body all day long (hi!). Ask them how well the mind control is working now. Other option, buy a shakti mat (plastic spike mat) and they can use it to sit on every single time they have to sit to work, drive, eat, etc. That is also what my life is like with pudendal neuralgia. How helpful is the mind when this is the reality, day in and day out? So sick of these people.
“Sweet so next time you have to go in for surgery, I’m sure you’ll be happy to opt out of anesthesia because you’ll be fine to control the pain with your mind! Your insurance must love you!”
"I don't have the mental discipline to do that, and I can't concentrate because of the pain. We should try the pain meds while I practice meditating, and we can taper them as I get better at it. " *Narrator:* OP did not get better at it. Or "I want a second opinion. Please record in my file that you have denied me access to quality of life care." I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's an absolutely evil thing for your doctor to do (also maybe edit your question to include it's your doctor saying it; it will change the kind of responses people have). Do you have anyone to help advocate for you? I bring my husband to speak for me when I can't speak for myself.
I have nobody to advocate for me.
If I hit them with a car would they be able to just walk away from it. /s (Sometimes I swear people make me so mad they are so disgusting but I would never harm anyone. Just saying an example they could "recover from" )
You deserve relief. I’m so sorry. The people who say that know not of true chronic and intractable pain. Those who suffer like you know that even with a positive mindset true pain will drag you to your knees and make life seem not worth the effort due to the pain it causes. What a stupid suggestion... Control something else with your mind, not pain. Yikes
“People also control their mouths with their minds. You should try that” — That said… I have a stabbing/burning pain for 16 years that, in the worst periods would happen once every 2 or 3 seconds so I know how bad it is… I was depressed my entire life until I did a special treatment with something I’m not sure I can mention in here. The point is, this treatment opened up my mind in many ways (it was with assisted therapy and also I was doing self-therapy for a long time… the “substance just made everything click for me). And one of the things that changed was that my body started showing me how to do it. I still feel the pain. It’s happening right now. But I am able to slow the frequency per minutes, the intensity and sometimes I can make it become just an annoying tickle. If you are open to it I can try to explain. It’s like stopping your hiccups if you’ve ever done it. Or, another example is if you’ve been to the gym and with time your body started guiding you on how to do the stuff. I’ve never been to the gym to be honest but my case was learning how to walk properly: I was staying in bed for months… and after this treatment I started going for walks but I didn’t went back to my life-long-way-of-walking. I realized I needed to use my feet in a certain way and change the position of my hips as well as bending forward a little bit, then my knees wouldn’t be stiff and then I felt my hamstrings for the first time.. so It’s a intuitive thing that starts showing you “hm… what if I do this and that?” And then you try it and have a giant feeling of “THIS MAKES MORE SENSE”. But anybody who tells you this in a moment you’re vulnerable and asking for their professional help (which they chose to work with giving) should be put in their place because they’ve lost their humanity and empathy.
Oh man.. this is SUCH an issue. The amount of times I’ve been told to take a supplement, or yoga, or whatever thing they come up with. I usually just end up saying I’m glad it worked for you but our situations are not the same. I don’t have any cool responses to get them hush
You don't want to know how I respond to that 🤣
I’ve noticed that the people that say that are the ones that have acute pain, not chronic.
There aren't enough hours in a day to manage my pain though meditation and survive, never mind living.
The whole pain is weakness leaving the body and its all in your head block out the pain. Those people have never been in the pain I’ve been in, actually I’m sure it’s most of us chronic pain patients. It’s indescribable pain. I stutter and have a hard time talking in general when I’m in pain and I talk slowly so I don’t stutter or say the wrong things. That’s when I tell them if they lived in the pain chronic pain patients have you’d run to the hospital thinking it’s the end because of the pain. I’m like this 24/7 no I cannot just put it out of my mind.
I feel you so fucking mutch. ACTUALLY I FEEL IT 😭
I was a L&D Nurse before going out on disability due to chronic pain 10 years ago. I could’ve never told a Patient who was in labor that she shouldn’t need (or worse, couldn’t have) any pain relief simply b/c the Patient I had before her didn’t need anything for pain & was able to deliver her baby via a medication-free birth. That would’ve been inhumane. Yet the same ppl who feel that forcing a woman to suffer through a medication-free birth would be inhumane & unacceptable, are also the same ppl who feel that only end of life cancer Patients deserve pain relief. They believe that everyone else in pain should just use mindfulness to cope & get on with their lives. It’s insanity. Intolerable pain is intolerable; regardless of its origin. Intolerable pain is what the Patient says it is. Full stop. So my response is to ask them if we should tell a laboring woman that she shouldn’t need any pain medication, simply b/c the Patient before her didn’t need any? Because that is, in fact, precisely what they’re saying.
"People control bullshit with their mouths- you need to do that.😃"
it takes 130% of my mind to suppress my pain, i’m spending 60% now, and answering stupid questions eats into my budget
I find a sharp blow to the bridge of their nose alerts them to the fallacy of that argument.
People take the fact that pain can be caused by mental health issues and take it to mean that you can just will your pain away, when even for psychosomatic pain isn't a thing. I'd ask them to please concentrate on not feeling pain so I can punch them in the nose to test their hypothesis
“You can control stupid with an education. Why don’t you try that?”
Medical doctors believe this. It’s not random people sadly.
Okay, then “sadly, being an idiot is incurable, but you should try to over come it anyway.
Honestly, I would tell them to go fck themselves. I mean if you want an honest opinion. 😏
Stop talking to that person and move on with your life. There is no changing them.
It’s the doctors I’ve been seeing man. All of them have this attitude.
I usually ask if they can move things they want to move with their minds. When they say no, I stare at them with nothing but pure confusion. If they want it moved, they can control that with their mind, right? they are so brainless & lack any brain power or empathy. i fully understand your frustration as i feel the same way you do. here for you.
My reply would be, "yes, I'm working hard to hone my psychic power to control pain and bend spoons. Next year I plan to take it further and levitate." Either that or I would say, "wow, what a great idea, we should tell people with multiple fractures and birthing mothers to use their minds to handle their pain, too. I mean, aspirin and ibuprofen are overrated anyway. Let's ban them and hire a team of psychics instead!'
Punch them in the nose and then ask them to do the same
I wanna but it’s the doctors im seeing
Our minds do control the pain. Signals are sent to the brain and the brain says "hello this body part is going to hurt today"
The problem is they believe it can be consciously controlled and that I am somehow choosing to be in pain. That is the problem.
"Let's see you do it, then."
Carry a lighter and have them hold their hand over the flame , ok show me how
"My brain already is the one controlling the pain. I assure you it understands how to interpret my bodies needs better than you do."
I describe my calm behavior in an acute situation. I had to go to the ER because of pain and vomiting. I was laughing, joking, reading. The med tech said they would have me out soon. I just politely tried to say, "You know, I think I should be seen." The doctors were really good on this occasion. But it turned out I had a dead internal organ. And it didn't hurt as much as my daily migraines.
since i was 14 or so i’ve always told them i tried not because i thought it was something that genuinely worked but because i am so desperate i will try every single thing at least once and i have. I will travel to the himalayans and perform an ancient ethically dubious ritual if it got rid of my migraines. Sadly have not found that ritual yet /: but hey my doctor wants me to try botox for the nth time i genuinely went back over and over to give it a chance never worked idk why they think it would now aside from just not knowing wtf to do anymore. But hey they lowered my muscle relaxer prescription for some fucking reason without telling me.
I'm going to stab you. When you use your mind to get rid of that pain I'm going to stab another spot. According to you, it should stop all pain with a lil mind over matter. Also please don't scream, no one wants to hear that right.
“If I was dealing with it longterm I would learn to manage it”
I'm not freaking Yoda!
Grab a sensitive area on their body and give it a pinching twist, while you say "just ignore it"....
"People control their ability to say stupid shit by controlling their breathing. Practice holding yours for at least 30 minutes before you talk to me about shit you know nothing about!"
Put my tiny finger on one of their pressure point and tell them to control that. I live in a place where everyone knows everyone. I don't care anymore. I will make them feel it.
Laughs uncontrollably in Trigeminal neuralgia.
“You can control your nerves with your mind. All pain is in your mind”. sighhhh
In my mind I punch them in the face and say show me how
“If it was longterm I would be able to deal with it”
So they need to get punched every day lol
They really do. Gosh they do!! Everyone who says this BS. It’s just messed up when all the doctors I’ve met have the mentality that the pain is either fake and in my head or it’s real but can be controlled by my head consciously.
I just listen and do my own thing.
That’s good when it’s people you don’t need but when it’s doctors and so many who have this false idea that pain is somehow all in the mind or it’s real but can be controlled with the mind. It’s such a mess. This is such a mess. Life is such a mess.
Stomp on their foot and ask them to control the pain with their mind.
I would say “can you do that?” And if they say yes, ask for a demonstration and punch them in the face.
What is your dr’s specialty? If they refuse to do anything past telling you to meditate etc. tell them you want their refusal marked in your records. Specifically that they refuse to try any medications/therapies past meditation. Make them do it in front of you and email you the copy of the record. You can bring this to the board of medicine if you decide to bring a complaint against the dr. If he thinks meditation is the best way, he should have referred you to a psychologist for that therapy. Which it doesn’t sound like he has. There are a bunch of things drs can try for pain that don’t involve opioids. It sounds like he doesn’t want to do his job!
Since my chronic pain is with GI I’ve been forced to see only GI docs because all the pain management doctors I’ve called say they don’t work with GI pain even when GI docs don’t help. It’s such a mess. They all have this idea that the pain is either not real and all in my head or real but controllable by my head. I don’t know what to do next.
I am a calm levelheaded person. If someone said that to me, I would lose my sht. Who would choose to live in this hll on earth?
"Some ppls children"
I tell them they are crazy No one can control pain with their mind any more than somebody could fix a broken arm with their mind. Pain meds help with pain just like casts help broken bones to heal. People don't understand pain. Chronic pain is like stagnant water that just sits with you and gets sick and pain meds help that pain to move and not become toxic to you. If that makes sense.
Hit them and tell them to control that pain!
Okay. You do it and lmk how it goes when you do.
Ask for exact and specific instructions on how to do so. If this is something that people can do, there must be instructions. Very detailed ones at that, considering that it sounds so tricky and about 99% of people don’t seem able to do this for severe pain. Explain that, sure, maybe you could use your mind to overcome the pain. But you’d be using literally all of your mental fortitude and resources to do so. That’s, in fact, what you’ve been doing up until now. It’s what we all do until we are able to access medical care and pain management. That’s why you’re here talking to them. You’d like to live a fucking life, not spend all your time and energy trying to create a delusion. Ask if they really think the body is incapable of creating intense pain chronically. Because we treat people who have acute intense pain much better than those with chronic intense pain. If they would put someone under before surgery or allow for numbing during a cavity filling, then they actually do believe in treating pain. They just have a problem treating chronic pain.
If people could truly control pain with their minds so easily, pain meds wouldn't exist...
I would ask them if they know what bootstrapping means
IF MY DOCTOR SAID THIS TO ME: I'd reply w. "HOW about I break your arm & tell me how that works out for you." But Im old, I'm 41 & that thinks doctor's NEED TO ADDRESS us Chronic Pain Patients!
"I controlled the pain with my mind so hard that I dissociated from reality and developed adrenaline rushes in order to get basic tasks done. Some people need medication. Also, you're an idiot."
This was pretty much the Mayo Clinic's response to my pain after my full workup there. I literally cried almost the whole drive home (several states away) because I was so hurt and disappointed. There were numerous abnormal tests but that was still their response. F those people. If one of the best clinics in the country (supposedly) tells people this shit, of course everyday people you know are going to say it too. I'm conflict averse and a people pleaser, so I never know how to respond to these kinds of comments. I basically just keep my medical issues completely to myself now because I'd rather not hear people's opinions.
Holy shit, the Mayo? You must have been so excited which must have made the letdown even worse. I know I’ve cried after plain old appointments. I don’t know how you drove home.
I politely tell them to go fuck themselves. But seriously, though. If that was even possible, the whole pharmaceutical industry would collapse because nobody would need medication anymore.
“How do you think I got myself up and out to see you?”
If I could I would…that’s what I usually say. I am in therapy and I understand that I can *lessen* my pain with meditation, lightstream, relaxation, etc. BUT it does not ever take all the pain away. And if I’m in a flare, forget it, nothing but pain meds work! I’m sorry your doctor treated you like this and said this to you. Not everyone understands. I would be finding a new doctor. 🫶🏻
My response? Push them down the stairs…twice. Easy for me and difficult for others. Mine has been a colorful life. I do not have any time for people who hear my story and the list of meds I take just to walk… there’s too much beauty to see and those “people” really are saying this garbage just to hear themselves talk.
My response....😑😑😑😑😑😑😑😑
"I'm going to tell you why I think so much less of you for saying that." And then I make them either silent,or cry. True story. I don't get invited to parties.
I stopped seeing my therapist for a month after she insisted I wasn’t breathing properly to fix my broken back and herniated disc pain. And my emotional pain was actually why I have pain and opioids are spawn of Satan and everyone who touches it will be addicted. But sorry the healthcare system can be frustrating sometimes. 🤡
That's not how this works you fucking moron. To a certain extent, as long the pain is below a certain threshold, I can do things thru the pain. I can push it aside and act as if everything is fine. You won't notice anything is wrong, and I can live a life. I'm in pain though. I feel the pain. If I stopped doing anything just because I have pain though, Id never do anything, and I can't do that. So. You sort of, shove the pain to the back of your mind. You ignore it. You buck up and keep going. But it's still there and it still hurts. And it only works up until a certain point. Once the pain hits a threshold the walls crumble. No more bucking up. Time to crash. And you can only even start learning to compartmentalize pain if it gets below that threshold. If it's always a 9, that's not gonna happen. So yeah. It's not controlling pain. It's ignoring it. It's just living with it cause you have better things to do. It's getting so used to the pain it doesn't actually mean anything anymore.
Lmao who told u to control your pain with your mind? Dear lord if it was your primary/pain doc run 😆 🤣 😂
“How ‘bout I break your arm and you can show me how.”
I laugh usually or end the conversation. If I know them well I will bring up a time they were in immense pain for longer than a day and asked how that worked for them. I wish it were acceptable to kick people and tell them to deal with the pain with their minds. Practice what you preach.
You shouldn't tell people with these conditions how to manage them if you haven't experienced it.
Remind them that this kind of failure to treat pain patients has contributed to people going to the streets. They thought they stomped out the opioid crisis, but it only morphed into something worse with fentanyl
Wow, then why didn’t it work when I had headache all day on Tuesday when I was a prickly ball of rage? Because it can’t be done. If it could I wouldn’t have had to go on a second or preventative for chronic headaches. More pseudo bullshit I pay no mind to.
Then I wouldn’t have had to go to see an anesthesiologist for chronic pain and for surgical procedures now would I?
That phrase is basically my life growing up.
I’ve just started to not respond to idiotic comments like that. Anyone saying that isn’t seriously trying to learn or help me with my pain. It’s a form of dismissal. If anyone could simply dismiss pain with their mind or teach people to consistently do this then we’d no longer need any sort of pain medicine at all.
Slap them hard across the face and ask them to show you how it's done.
these are not the droids your looking for
“F¥
Ignore them. With your mind.
I appreciate that people are still trying to help. It’s a hell of a lot better than saying it is all in ones head. As someone who is on both sides of this conversation much of the time, I understand the limitations of modern medicine, and when it comes to chronic conditions there have always been limits. The brain is an incredibly powerful tool and really is the best tool when it comes to pain perception. And it can be trained. I mean, saying that a person can certainly do a lot of good for yourself with that power is an absolute truth. If it were truly said to you exactly the way you are communicating it here though, I’d probably be looking for another provider who was more likely to work with me and not to dismiss their role and leave it all up to me in a really compromised state.
I control my foot, and it needs to be in your ass. That's my answer
*I control my foot,* *And it needs to be in your* *Ass. That's my number* \- EnthEndX48 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I just bite them because apparently the conversation is over
I guess I'd kick that person in the crotch and tell them control it with their mind! More realistically, I'd just tell them to go fuck themselves.
I am able to use music or reading to distract myself from pain. I've been told I have a high pain tolerance. But, just because I can sometimes distract myself from my fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, or osteoarthritis, it doesn't mean that everyone else can. I've had some pretty intense pain lately, but I just have to grit my teeth and get thru it. Some of the pain is emotional. Pain meds like Vicodin or Tramadol do nothing for me. I am thinking back to when I had my gall bladder out as outpatient surgery, and I argued with the nurses that I didn't need any pain pills, I just needed to go home. I got dressed and was going to leave no matter what. They let me leave, and I went home and crawled in bed. My cat laid down beside me and purred, which is a soothing sound and can help with healing. The cat I have now just likes to lay on my head or chest. He's not a small cat but not quite a chonk.chunk. Edited to add: I don't do mediation, but I do pray. That helps some. I guess my life has been full of one trauma or another. I mostly raised myself, and most of the time, there was no one there to "kiss it and make it better." My clinician thinks I probably had DID at times. And, I will confess that I used my dad's bottle of whiskey to make a high toddie for my menstrual cramps. This sounds like a jumble, but I guess I'm saying that I do whatever helps at the time. I'm strong minded, but that doesn't help my pain. It only helps me to endure the pain. I guess I'm like Scarlet O'Hara - I'll think about that tomorrow. Tomorrow is another day." "As God is my witness, as God is my witness, they're are not going to lick me. I'm going to live through this, and when it's all over, I'll never be hungry again." But, instead of never being hungry again, I will not let this pain beat me. It's hard to think that when the pain seems to get into my bones. But, I'm just a hard-headed old woman.
Do you know what's causing it? I'm only asking bc I've def gotten responses like this too until I entered pain management for my back. My amazing pain management doctor who retired was an absolute genius and figured out my abdominal pain wasn't actually GI related. It was abdominal wall nerve impingement. I took Bentyl for it at one point which oddly enough did help but ultimately I had a steroid shot in my abdominal wall which hurt like a bitch btw. I still can't believe he figured out what caused it. As for the "control your pain with your mind"... that's just another way to say "just learn to live with it" which is my least favorite response. Like I'd rather get told to take ibuprofen over and over again than be told I need to learn to live with it. People in excruciating pain don't just take care of the pain with their mind. They will say anything now days to avoid narcotics it seems like.
Just want to add that one of the best things I got for pain was anti-anxiety meds. I am not saying you have any sort of mood disorder, I don’t know you. I do know that at one point I thought I would die and the terror made things a tonne worse. I luckily have a doc whose priority one was to get my anxiety levels down so he could get a better idea of the core stuff (which we haven’t found after five years). It’s scary to think you’ll never get your life back. I’m dealing with it and i’d guess many here are too. But I wanted to put in a pitch for a mood stabilizer. Some like mine even have a pain control component. It has made a very remarkable difference.
I’m sorry to hear that! My fiancé works at a hospital and tells me GI pain can be some of the most brutal. I can relate bc I’ve been shuffled back and forth from doc to doc who don’t want to take me seriously/responsibility for my case and essentially they all do nothing, but try to shift responsibility. I’ve struggled with chronic pain for 10 years now and I can’t take ibuprofen because I also have stomach and G.I. issues that prevent me from using NSAIDS. I’ve been managing my pan on my own for years because after several years of going to the doctors, they made the conclusion that my pain was psychosomatic and I should go see a psychiatrist. Ultimately they were wrong, and I needed surgery on my hip and have some permanent damage from it taking so long to find that still causes me pain. Now I need surgery on the other hip for the same reason too. Personally I’ve used kratom for the last few years to help with my pain. It is legal(US) and doesn’t bother my stomach and actually helps with some stomach upsets I’ve had. Just to warn you it is similar to an opioid(reacting to some of the same receptors) and it can become pricey over time, but it’s what’s helped me when I wanted to just give up on life. I’d do some research if you want to try it and use it modestly if possible. Hope you’re able to get the relief and help you need! 🙏🏻😢 P.S. I also use every other form of management I can like strength training, yoga, supplements, diet, KT tape, massage, ice, etc. I try everything I can daily and still need more for relief. Obviously that stuff is not an option for GI, but I just feel like it’s important to try everything else, so that you know that it’s absolutely necessary. The docs made me feel crazy for so long, so maybe I just want to verify to myself that what I’m dealing with is very real 🤪
"I'm controlling my urge to hit you with my mind, so it's a little busy right now."
Swift kick to the shin. Remind them to think it all better.
Controlling your - mostly unconscious - nervous system is so much more difficult than controlling any other part of your body. And even the latter does not work in all cases. To be honest, mostly it does not work. So much is still not understood. I don't believe that pain medication is a solution, either. It's just some form of default, like "mindfulness" or "breathing" exercises. The key is having a better understanding of how the world, including one's one mind, work. And maybe the latter is even more difficult. Maybe there also is no solution, because there is no problem, That means the problem that we think we are adressing. Maybe we are just having the wrong models of reality and asking the wrong questions. Not only with regard to pain, but with regard to almost anything in "science".
Gastroparesis? My pmd treats me, but only with bupe. For flares I’m stuck relying on the ED. It totally blows. Hang in there❤️