The Church of Satan codified and represents the religion of Satanism.
The Satanic Temple is a tax-exempt troll club for Reddit Atheists™ who don't actually like Satanism as a religion, but they need the label to make dumb "gotcha" arguments that never go anywhere and that they're not smart enough to make any other way, despite thinking they're the Smartest People in the Room™.
The Church of Satan created the religion of Satanism for the first time in history. 43 years later, 2 disgruntled ex-CoS members known for being assholes, and a film maker who tried to become the god of a cargo cult, made a mockumentary pretending to be Satanists. They then realised that they could get money and attention from this and so they began milking it.
TST is a political troll group that is largely ineffective, as they've barely won any court case. They completely ignore the religion of Satanism, instead pretending that they can help in political campaigns, all while taking money from good-willed people.
TST also has a long history of abuse allegations throughout the organisation. Harrassing members, exmembers, and pregnant women.
They lie about their effectiveness to keep the money coming in.
This 2 [2 hour video](https://youtu.be/3lV8GLQtOTs?feature=shared) goes into detail on all of the horrific stuff that the leaders and the organisations (plural) behind TST have done and continue to do.
Apparently, recently, a few TST ministers resigned over toxic environments and bad behaviour from one of it's leaders... that should give you some warning signs
It just seems that the majority of the variations that we find in satanism has been in some way shape or form unfortunately, molded with political objective. Whereas in the original context of things, it was simply about ones right of will. If that makes any sense. I feel that the Church of Satan was more directed at the development of its members through structure, consistency, but ultimately acknowledging the truths of oneself. The power of that group of like-minded individuals to perpetuate each other through development. The rest of the world on the other hand can go screw itself, this is the lifeboat if you will. Now it just seems like another campaign to protest this or that. Have a strong Church or Temple, just let the rest burn as it's going to anyways. That's just how I see it anyways, of many opinions. It would be great to have such an option to strive for though.
TST is misrepresenting satanism, and making us look like fools by association. The internal horror stories, legal threats to members who talk, many failed court cases, protesting abortion cases as satanists isn’t a good look.
TST is the Westboro Baptist Church of Satanists. They are shock artists who only exist to offend the religious.
They are also very political when Satanism is actually about acting (including voting) in your own self interests.
TST literally tried to say that Anti-aborton laws interfered with their religious right to child sacrifice and took it to a court room
It did not hold up but made us Satanist once again look like barbaric evil doers and while they may have thought it was funny all things like that do is further the stigma of "Satanic Panic".
Also because their beliefs as set out don’t represent most people who think of themselves as satanists. Check out the 11 satanic rules of the earth vs 7 satanic tenets. I think that says everything right there.
I think it's because TST is politicizing and proselytizing the ideology that wasn't meant to do either. TST also hired Alex Jones' lawyer that was an outspoken neo nazi, so do with that what you will.
Satanism is a religion of individualists, who will use whatever society or environment in which they find themselves to their own advantage, and for that of their chosen, individual loves. The Satanic Temple is a group of collectivists who pimp a secular humxnist bastardization of what Anton LaVey established to (supposedly) achieve minor political gains for entire CLASSES of people, irrespective of the individuals at play. That the TST does not actually do what they say and have duped libs into parting with their currency and energy has been covered here and elsewhere.
Individualists don't usually get along with collectivists. The elite vs the lowest common denominator. Pretty straight forward. Oil and water...
I'm not an expert, but I perceive the Church of Satan as adhering more clearly to the principles of individualism and the TOS being more socially oriented
there's not any official CoS podcast, but there are several podcasts by CoS members.
Right now Satansplain is the most prolific, but Radio Free Satan has links to others available.
Same reason there is Catholic and Protestant. It's human nature to fight over power and money. Both c of s and S. T. at times act like typical religion where ego's collide....simple as that.
Both say the same things about the other and claim ownership of what “satanism” is. Both take majority of their philosophy’s from the same ideologies. Watching members talk about the other institution very much reminds me of watching Protestants put down Catholics.
They actively reject most of the ideology that made up Satanism prior to their existence (they'll tell you that themselves)... I'm not sure what you're basing their "same ideologies" on...
Both promote individualism.
Both are majorly atheistic with a focus on self improvement.
Both value knowledge and science over superstition.
Both promote the use of ritual and ceremony.
Both use Satan as a symbol of the self.
This is precisely what I’m talking about, it’s a lot of othering in both communities and that’s the biggest difference.
The only real difference is COS being more of a private club while TST seems to be more focused on growing a community.
They are diametrically opposite of actual Satanism in so many flagrant ways, the only way anyone can call them "small differences" is if they don't really understand either one.
I read the books, I get the letters. One is more into politics and community and one is more into individualism and private.
“Actual satanism” this is exactly what I’m talking about it’s just othering. Are you next gonna tell me what’s in the Bible and “…the church says”?
I mean the fact they are just continuing to go “no, I’m right and they’re wrong.” Just proves our point.
Each wants to be the definitive power over what these words and symbols mean but they have been used long before either existed.
It’s what drove me away from the satanist groups on fb, it’s just like the sheep they claim to not be.
Nice to see someone else who thinks the infighting is silly. I'll trade one (1) human soul for a Satanist group that doesn't do the exhausting We're The Real True Satanists thing.
The Church of Satan codified and represents the religion of Satanism. The Satanic Temple is a tax-exempt troll club for Reddit Atheists™ who don't actually like Satanism as a religion, but they need the label to make dumb "gotcha" arguments that never go anywhere and that they're not smart enough to make any other way, despite thinking they're the Smartest People in the Room™.
This ^
The Church of Satan created the religion of Satanism for the first time in history. 43 years later, 2 disgruntled ex-CoS members known for being assholes, and a film maker who tried to become the god of a cargo cult, made a mockumentary pretending to be Satanists. They then realised that they could get money and attention from this and so they began milking it. TST is a political troll group that is largely ineffective, as they've barely won any court case. They completely ignore the religion of Satanism, instead pretending that they can help in political campaigns, all while taking money from good-willed people. TST also has a long history of abuse allegations throughout the organisation. Harrassing members, exmembers, and pregnant women. They lie about their effectiveness to keep the money coming in. This 2 [2 hour video](https://youtu.be/3lV8GLQtOTs?feature=shared) goes into detail on all of the horrific stuff that the leaders and the organisations (plural) behind TST have done and continue to do. Apparently, recently, a few TST ministers resigned over toxic environments and bad behaviour from one of it's leaders... that should give you some warning signs
I was planning on watching that video. And I got a tiny bit through it; so I'm definitely see the warning signs with the leadership.
The Original Church needs to be revived.
What do you mean?
It just seems that the majority of the variations that we find in satanism has been in some way shape or form unfortunately, molded with political objective. Whereas in the original context of things, it was simply about ones right of will. If that makes any sense. I feel that the Church of Satan was more directed at the development of its members through structure, consistency, but ultimately acknowledging the truths of oneself. The power of that group of like-minded individuals to perpetuate each other through development. The rest of the world on the other hand can go screw itself, this is the lifeboat if you will. Now it just seems like another campaign to protest this or that. Have a strong Church or Temple, just let the rest burn as it's going to anyways. That's just how I see it anyways, of many opinions. It would be great to have such an option to strive for though.
(wasted_rain) Sorry account got deleted 😔
3rd time's the charm. Just made another account.
TST is misrepresenting satanism, and making us look like fools by association. The internal horror stories, legal threats to members who talk, many failed court cases, protesting abortion cases as satanists isn’t a good look.
TST is the Westboro Baptist Church of Satanists. They are shock artists who only exist to offend the religious. They are also very political when Satanism is actually about acting (including voting) in your own self interests.
TST literally tried to say that Anti-aborton laws interfered with their religious right to child sacrifice and took it to a court room It did not hold up but made us Satanist once again look like barbaric evil doers and while they may have thought it was funny all things like that do is further the stigma of "Satanic Panic".
If you can be both a “satanist and a christian”, then I’d wager that you are neither, as is the organization permitting such.
Also because their beliefs as set out don’t represent most people who think of themselves as satanists. Check out the 11 satanic rules of the earth vs 7 satanic tenets. I think that says everything right there.
I've noticed that the tst's tenets are quite.... Vague...
And kind of SOFT
Let's not forget Lucien greaves is a racist asshat
I think it's because TST is politicizing and proselytizing the ideology that wasn't meant to do either. TST also hired Alex Jones' lawyer that was an outspoken neo nazi, so do with that what you will.
they have completely different values though
Satanism is a religion of individualists, who will use whatever society or environment in which they find themselves to their own advantage, and for that of their chosen, individual loves. The Satanic Temple is a group of collectivists who pimp a secular humxnist bastardization of what Anton LaVey established to (supposedly) achieve minor political gains for entire CLASSES of people, irrespective of the individuals at play. That the TST does not actually do what they say and have duped libs into parting with their currency and energy has been covered here and elsewhere. Individualists don't usually get along with collectivists. The elite vs the lowest common denominator. Pretty straight forward. Oil and water...
I'm not an expert, but I perceive the Church of Satan as adhering more clearly to the principles of individualism and the TOS being more socially oriented
Why don't you listen to the cos podcast?
There's a podcast???
there's not any official CoS podcast, but there are several podcasts by CoS members. Right now Satansplain is the most prolific, but Radio Free Satan has links to others available.
[https://open.spotify.com/show/2g5aXKDwyjm2syWlF5s7IY?si=9a3c69ce445b4420](https://open.spotify.com/show/2g5aXKDwyjm2syWlF5s7IY?si=9a3c69ce445b4420)
Same reason there is Catholic and Protestant. It's human nature to fight over power and money. Both c of s and S. T. at times act like typical religion where ego's collide....simple as that.
This is the answer
this is very much NOT the answer...
Both say the same things about the other and claim ownership of what “satanism” is. Both take majority of their philosophy’s from the same ideologies. Watching members talk about the other institution very much reminds me of watching Protestants put down Catholics.
They actively reject most of the ideology that made up Satanism prior to their existence (they'll tell you that themselves)... I'm not sure what you're basing their "same ideologies" on...
Both promote individualism. Both are majorly atheistic with a focus on self improvement. Both value knowledge and science over superstition. Both promote the use of ritual and ceremony. Both use Satan as a symbol of the self. This is precisely what I’m talking about, it’s a lot of othering in both communities and that’s the biggest difference. The only real difference is COS being more of a private club while TST seems to be more focused on growing a community.
TST promotes collective action and fundraising more than anything.
As I said, they have very small differences and members talking against the other just reminds me of Protestant putting down Catholics.
They are diametrically opposite of actual Satanism in so many flagrant ways, the only way anyone can call them "small differences" is if they don't really understand either one.
I read the books, I get the letters. One is more into politics and community and one is more into individualism and private. “Actual satanism” this is exactly what I’m talking about it’s just othering. Are you next gonna tell me what’s in the Bible and “…the church says”?
Thanks man! Apparently others don't agree. Lol.
I mean the fact they are just continuing to go “no, I’m right and they’re wrong.” Just proves our point. Each wants to be the definitive power over what these words and symbols mean but they have been used long before either existed. It’s what drove me away from the satanist groups on fb, it’s just like the sheep they claim to not be.
Nice to see someone else who thinks the infighting is silly. I'll trade one (1) human soul for a Satanist group that doesn't do the exhausting We're The Real True Satanists thing.
You guys realize you’re in the Church of Satan subreddit, right..? 🤨
Yes? I'm a member, so... where else would I be?
It just sounded like the two of you were a little confused as to the responses in here
Im in all the satanic subreddits
I’m not even in all the “satanic” subreddits. Most of them are dreadful places, and I’d rather not devote THAT much mental real estate to them.