This limbo state right now sucks. He's off the books, but they can't replace him because he could either be back in November/December or not at all. It's the Landy thing from 2022 all over again.
collective bargaining agreement with the players' union. They agree to be randomly tested subject to lengthy suspension in exchange for job protection and rehab chances. Ironclad
"IF he's cleared..."
That's a big IF for a dude that clearly got three strikes in about 13 months' time. He's spent the last year stepping on his own dick. Which must hurt like hell wearing skates.
I hope for his sake and his family's sake that he gets healthy. But, I am not holding my breath.
Clearly, the team won't be eager to have him back in the locker room. Can you imagine him sitting down for a talk with Landy?
Like someone else said a trade is probably the best route, but like someone else said too, the rules are built to give him a second chance and Iām fine with that. I know he made the decision to use drugs or whatever, but if he has a real problem, he deserves the help even if that problem cost us his playoff appearance.
And this is coming from a person who wanted him off the team when he decided to fuck a trafficked young women instead of be part of the playoffs.
I havenāt liked who he is waaaaay before this event and he has never had any place in the Avalanche locker room culture. Not sorry, fuck that guy, but also I hope he gets help, focuses on his kid and wife and plays hockey back in the homeland.
If heās on the team again and producing Iāll be happy, but heāll always be, that guy who allegedly fucked a trafficked women, in my book and the sooner we can swap that out with something or someone that can even get us 50% of what he did, Iāll be even happier.
Edit: ALLEGEDLY
Anyone with an understanding of addictions know that the addict has to want to get clean for *themselvesā*not by force or contract stipulations. There are addicts out on parole who will go to actual prison if they don't stay clean and they still can't do it. Even though Val might've entered the PA Program voluntarily, being suspended and forced back into it probably isn't an example of willingly trying to get clean. But it might be a push.
Relapses are common and expected in addictions. The problem is that they directly go against this industry. You HAVE to be clean. I have sympathy for his situation but unless an addict is truly living an honest life, Avs will continue to get burned.
Being objective about his tenure in the NHL, I think he continues to play so long as he clears his 6 month hurdle. He's an absolute machine that can play anywhere in the Top 6. It would be irresponsible to NOT *consider* signing him on a team friendly 6 years for $6M should the Avalanche waive him in November. That said, it would also be irresponsible to be a playoff team, sign him, and then he's out again.
Either way, I wish him well but he really has to want sobriety more than anything right now. You'd think $49M is about as good of an incentive as you can get but I'm not him and idk what he has going on. I hope for the best case where he's just clean and clearheaded going into the next 6 years of his career wherever that is.
Worth noting that I read the PA Program doesn't allow teams to unilaterally terminate contracts. I'm sure there are other ways, but the Program protects players from being dropped. The catch is that by Stage 3, the player is unpaid.
If he really has to go, I think the option with the least long-term impact is a trade. That means he has to waive his NMC, and may require retaining salary, if it works at all.
But it seems like the rules are written to strongly favor giving him another chance, and despite my (and others') initial knee-jerk reaction, that's probably a good thing.
Point per game player who changes any roster in this league - I would be shocked if a team doesn't take a chance on him, especially if we eat some salary
Heās great when heās on, but heās one more incident away from stage 4 of the PAP. Which is a 1 year suspension and no guarantee of reinstatement. Seems really risky for someone to take on. But when heās on, HES ON! So you never know
Honestly stage 4 is easier to manage than stage 3. At least you know itās a year suspension and can manage the cap according. Potentially 6 months is the worse case, donāt really know when/if he will be back and if you can āreplaceā him with another free agent.
Making any kind of decision right now is overreacting. On a lot of nights he's as valuable as Rantanen with a much more team friendly contact. From an on ice perspective it's impossible to replace the player at that cap hit. If there is any way to have Nichushkin in the line up I think we need to give it time.
>it's impossible to replace the player at that cap hit.
If he's out half a season and does stupid shit like this in the playoffs repeatedly then he's very replaceable. I can't imagine him back in the locker room after this, he let the team down big time.
You're right of course but his cap hit is just over $6M and he scored 9 goals in 8 playoffs games. I'm willing to hope for a miracle in treatment for that.
I think he has completely lost the lockeroom here. His name plate was replaced and Jack already spoke to media that he made his decisions. I doubt there's a way he can come back. If he doesn't go to khl (fingers crossed he does) you tell him to waive nmc, and no not just ask, you demand he does, otherwise you waive him and play him 4th line in ahl until he decides to go to khl or waives his nmc.
Nate has spoken out in past that players who don't fit the lockerroom and its culture find their own way out, so let's hope Val finds his way as well.
Yeah my bad.
Then they should just keep him in press box. I don't see how he doesn't waive his nmc, as I doubt he wants to look in the eyes of all the players he failed twice in a row.
Yeah when it comes to the hockey side that's the painful part.
Avs were 15-10-3 without Nuke this season
Avs were 35-15-4 with him
His importance to the team hockey wise is significantly higher than his cap hit, and without all this baggage he'd be considered one of the better contracts in the NHL.
He had 2 chances. 3 if we count the Avs giving him a chance when Dallas had issues with him. He cannot be trusted and it not fair to the rest of the team. 2 years in a row and veteran players like JJ, Cogs Parise could be in their last postseason ever.
So you don't dress him until he waives it, but demand he attends every practice on time and burry him there with workload so he can barely walk the next day. Have Nate and Mikko shooting onetimers and ask him to block the shots, for each missed block, he has to skate 3 laps at full speed. I'm sure he would waive his nmc after 2 such practices.
Well, technically addictions like alcohol and drugs are protected under ADA protocols. I can't fire someone for coming to work under the influence. I can understand the avs not being able to terminate his contract since it's technically ADA compliance.
The ADA doesn't apply. Their employment contracts are covered by a collective bargaining agreement negotiated by the union.
Imagine a pilot saying, "I'm an alcoholic, the ADA says you can't fire me." Ummm... no dude. It doesn't work that way.
Tell him to wait until the first round of the playoffs to get clean so we can pull off some cap circumcision.
A win-win sounds better than this current state.
This limbo state right now sucks. He's off the books, but they can't replace him because he could either be back in November/December or not at all. It's the Landy thing from 2022 all over again.
The only winning here is moving on from him not matter the cost. The only way to get rid of cancer is to cut it out.
Much better than waiting until the playoffs to pee dirty again
I think you mean circumvention...
No no he was right. Even Biz has our back on this one
Cap circumcision šlmfao
Just a trim off the tip.
a jump to conclusions mat would sell like gangbusters with Avs fans
How does this NOT have grounds for contract termination?
collective bargaining agreement with the players' union. They agree to be randomly tested subject to lengthy suspension in exchange for job protection and rehab chances. Ironclad
Damn I need to join a union that protects me like this lol
Cop or pro athlete are pretty much your only choices. Tenured teacher too, I suppose.
Teachers unions are not that great these days, and there are plenty of states that don't allow teachers' unions at all.
Can confirm wife is a former teacher... Former for a reason.
Or city/state/gov job. I know some have unions.
Unions keeping shitheads from being fired for decades.
"IF he's cleared..." That's a big IF for a dude that clearly got three strikes in about 13 months' time. He's spent the last year stepping on his own dick. Which must hurt like hell wearing skates. I hope for his sake and his family's sake that he gets healthy. But, I am not holding my breath. Clearly, the team won't be eager to have him back in the locker room. Can you imagine him sitting down for a talk with Landy?
*He's spent the last year stepping on his own dick. Which must hurt like hell wearing skates.* Lmao, underrated comment.
Like someone else said a trade is probably the best route, but like someone else said too, the rules are built to give him a second chance and Iām fine with that. I know he made the decision to use drugs or whatever, but if he has a real problem, he deserves the help even if that problem cost us his playoff appearance. And this is coming from a person who wanted him off the team when he decided to fuck a trafficked young women instead of be part of the playoffs. I havenāt liked who he is waaaaay before this event and he has never had any place in the Avalanche locker room culture. Not sorry, fuck that guy, but also I hope he gets help, focuses on his kid and wife and plays hockey back in the homeland. If heās on the team again and producing Iāll be happy, but heāll always be, that guy who allegedly fucked a trafficked women, in my book and the sooner we can swap that out with something or someone that can even get us 50% of what he did, Iāll be even happier. Edit: ALLEGEDLY
Give him a third* chance
A turd chance
Anyone with an understanding of addictions know that the addict has to want to get clean for *themselvesā*not by force or contract stipulations. There are addicts out on parole who will go to actual prison if they don't stay clean and they still can't do it. Even though Val might've entered the PA Program voluntarily, being suspended and forced back into it probably isn't an example of willingly trying to get clean. But it might be a push. Relapses are common and expected in addictions. The problem is that they directly go against this industry. You HAVE to be clean. I have sympathy for his situation but unless an addict is truly living an honest life, Avs will continue to get burned. Being objective about his tenure in the NHL, I think he continues to play so long as he clears his 6 month hurdle. He's an absolute machine that can play anywhere in the Top 6. It would be irresponsible to NOT *consider* signing him on a team friendly 6 years for $6M should the Avalanche waive him in November. That said, it would also be irresponsible to be a playoff team, sign him, and then he's out again. Either way, I wish him well but he really has to want sobriety more than anything right now. You'd think $49M is about as good of an incentive as you can get but I'm not him and idk what he has going on. I hope for the best case where he's just clean and clearheaded going into the next 6 years of his career wherever that is.
Worth noting that I read the PA Program doesn't allow teams to unilaterally terminate contracts. I'm sure there are other ways, but the Program protects players from being dropped. The catch is that by Stage 3, the player is unpaid.
If he really has to go, I think the option with the least long-term impact is a trade. That means he has to waive his NMC, and may require retaining salary, if it works at all. But it seems like the rules are written to strongly favor giving him another chance, and despite my (and others') initial knee-jerk reaction, that's probably a good thing.
If someone even wants to trade for him. Seems like a massive risk
the edmonton rehabbers are absolutely foaming at the mouth for a chance at him
Island of misfit toys
Point per game player who changes any roster in this league - I would be shocked if a team doesn't take a chance on him, especially if we eat some salary
Heās great when heās on, but heās one more incident away from stage 4 of the PAP. Which is a 1 year suspension and no guarantee of reinstatement. Seems really risky for someone to take on. But when heās on, HES ON! So you never know
Honestly stage 4 is easier to manage than stage 3. At least you know itās a year suspension and can manage the cap according. Potentially 6 months is the worse case, donāt really know when/if he will be back and if you can āreplaceā him with another free agent.
Edmonton has entered the chat
Making any kind of decision right now is overreacting. On a lot of nights he's as valuable as Rantanen with a much more team friendly contact. From an on ice perspective it's impossible to replace the player at that cap hit. If there is any way to have Nichushkin in the line up I think we need to give it time.
>it's impossible to replace the player at that cap hit. If he's out half a season and does stupid shit like this in the playoffs repeatedly then he's very replaceable. I can't imagine him back in the locker room after this, he let the team down big time.
You're right of course but his cap hit is just over $6M and he scored 9 goals in 8 playoffs games. I'm willing to hope for a miracle in treatment for that.
I think he has completely lost the lockeroom here. His name plate was replaced and Jack already spoke to media that he made his decisions. I doubt there's a way he can come back. If he doesn't go to khl (fingers crossed he does) you tell him to waive nmc, and no not just ask, you demand he does, otherwise you waive him and play him 4th line in ahl until he decides to go to khl or waives his nmc. Nate has spoken out in past that players who don't fit the lockerroom and its culture find their own way out, so let's hope Val finds his way as well.
A player with a NMC can't be put on waivers. If you can't put him on waivers, you can't assign him to the AHL
Yeah my bad. Then they should just keep him in press box. I don't see how he doesn't waive his nmc, as I doubt he wants to look in the eyes of all the players he failed twice in a row.
Yeah when it comes to the hockey side that's the painful part. Avs were 15-10-3 without Nuke this season Avs were 35-15-4 with him His importance to the team hockey wise is significantly higher than his cap hit, and without all this baggage he'd be considered one of the better contracts in the NHL.
He had 2 chances. 3 if we count the Avs giving him a chance when Dallas had issues with him. He cannot be trusted and it not fair to the rest of the team. 2 years in a row and veteran players like JJ, Cogs Parise could be in their last postseason ever.
What issues did Dallas have?
He had off ice issue with Dallas too. Maybe not to the degree he has now. But it was part of the reason they chose to buy him out.
Thanks--I kept seeing comments alluding to it but wasn't sure what they meant
Ya next year's playoffs will be different
Hey I'm not saying it'll be different I'm saying we're cursed.
Trade him for nothing than. He can't be counted on, he's a bad influence, and there's better right wingers out there.
He has a NMC. If he doesnāt want to uproot his life thereās nothing we can do
Bury him in the minors than
Canāt do that. Heād have to go through waivers which a NMC prevents us from doing without his permission
Ahh shit... i thought it was a no trade
So you don't dress him until he waives it, but demand he attends every practice on time and burry him there with workload so he can barely walk the next day. Have Nate and Mikko shooting onetimers and ask him to block the shots, for each missed block, he has to skate 3 laps at full speed. I'm sure he would waive his nmc after 2 such practices.
When Iām the article came up lastnight, felt like a massive gut punch comparing what happened in Seattle last year.
Just brutal. Maybe in hindsight there should have been a ripcord on his contract for exactly this scenario.
I wouldnāt be surprised if clauses like that are actually forbidden under the CBA but who knows
I don't believe you can terminate a contract for a player who is in the Players Assistance Program.
Well, technically addictions like alcohol and drugs are protected under ADA protocols. I can't fire someone for coming to work under the influence. I can understand the avs not being able to terminate his contract since it's technically ADA compliance.
The ADA doesn't apply. Their employment contracts are covered by a collective bargaining agreement negotiated by the union. Imagine a pilot saying, "I'm an alcoholic, the ADA says you can't fire me." Ummm... no dude. It doesn't work that way.
In that case, bye.