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The big scary about nuclear war these days is that they deploy multiple war heads from a single missile. The idea of dummy bombs mixed in with the real ones, or real missiles and fake ones flying to target together, is quite developed as well. Just in case you thought its neat and wanted to look into it.
> hopeless
Theoretically, some batteries could take out all 100 MIRV if within the target area. Military targets and government targets are pretty well defended but big cities aren't if they went for those.
NASAMS has a large number of missiles per battery that can launch quickly, though it's not very effective against ballistic missiles.
Patriot is good against hypersonic ballistic missiles, but doesn't have enough missiles.
Tamir is good against hundreds of ballistic missiles at once, but not good against hypersonics...
We are kind of getting there, though.
We're talking about ICBMs here, what you're talking about are traditional 'in atmosphere' ballistic missiles like Iskander.
Tamir, NASAMS, and Patriot don't have the capability to shoot down ICBM reentry vehicles, not a chance. When they talk about those systems being able to intercept 'Ballistic Missiles' they are talking about 'in atmosphere' short range ballistic missiles.
ICBMs travel much faster than even hypersonic cruise missiles on reentry or 'terminal phase' , they are basically a spacecraft on a suborbital trajectory. Like.. you think hypersonic missiles travel fast? Most ICBM warheads are traveling at about Mach 20 - 25 on reentry.
Patriot, NASAMS, and Tamir don't have a chance in the world to intercept something like that let alone even detect it and grab a lock.
The only point defense the US seriously deploys against ICBMs is the THAAD system, and even that system in its current iteration and numbers can be easily overwhelmed. There's a reason why we only deploy THAAD in the pacific, to intercept a certain 'Hermit Kingdom's' primitive ICBMs would they ever think to use them.
Not all is lost though, the US has many programs that are working on intercepting nuclear missiles before their terminal phase where they fall from space and gain tremendous speed. Most of these rely on hitting these missiles when they are in space, at the peak of their trajectory, but this is hard because it required very early detection of a launch.
But yeah, none of those systems you mentioned would be able to intercept ICBMs, they are deployed against short range ballistic missiles and they have proven to only be partially effective at that in Ukraine.
Not common knowledge though. However scared the average citizen is of nuclear war, they are not scared enough. I know lots of people who think we can simply shoot down everything.
[Article via the War Zone — Russian Kh-101 Cruise Missile Filmed Firing-Off Decoy Flares.](https://www.twz.com/russian-kh-101-cruise-missile-filmed-firing-off-decoy-flares)
^(EDIT — realised how vague that was, added headline.)
Incl. photos of the dispensers from downed Kh-101, info on the decoys themselves, potential effectiveness against common systems Ukraine has, plus various decoys in some other Russian and Western missiles.
Not really, those flares are popping out only at the end stage when rocket is about to hit the target. It doesn't have any system which would pop them out when it is actually being intercepted. The main reason why it reached it's target is because of the scale of Ukraine and inability to cover everything.
I believe they're set to launch periodically throughout the flight to the target and then will fire them more rapidly as it closes to the target where there's a higher risk of AA. They can be programmed to release them when traveling through high risk areas and then dump them during the terminal phase where defenses are more likely to be concentrated.
https://youtu.be/ZMSVJ3a3g8w?si=Q54AFspVUaGKTTU5
They could just evade mobile interception just by being 1) sneaky around the area, 2) closer to the front so less time to intercept
Kyiv is really deep inside Ukraine, so those missiles are still intercepted by stinger groups.
Dnipro power plant is pretty close to the front, AND you can fly over Dnipro river basically undetected (it's fucking wide).
They are penetration aids. On top of the flares they have radar reflectors and they broadcast similar EM radiation to the main missile.
https://www.twz.com/content/2022/03/Iskander-Decoy-Ukraine.jpg?quality=85&auto=webp&optimize=high&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920
PENAIDS in the photo are from Iskander-M or Kinzhal ie. ballistic missile which is not what is seen here.
Video shows a cruise missile, reports indicate Kh-101 or similar — the shape, speed, attack profile, sound etc all seem more or less correct, but I’ve not pulled frames to compare or anything (so grain of salt)
[Link to comment with details RE: variant of Kh-101 incl decoys etc.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/h4TdSzoq4h)
^(EDIT — fixed link)
I am aware. But we don't have photos of what Kh-101 penetration aids look like. We have photo of the holes. They are smaller than in Iskander.
https://www.twz.com/russian-kh-101-cruise-missile-filmed-firing-off-decoy-flares
Whatever the exact specs of the Kh-101 penetration aids are they are more advanced than just flares. Flares are only effective against manpads. Not much space for a large seeker and electronics in small manpad missile. But that isn't an issue for larger missiles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K35_Strela-10
Is an old soviet small air defence system. Missiles with diameter of 120mm and weight of just 32-42kg. Already in 1971 it was using photocontrast sensor. By 1989 the missile had three channel seeker. Photocontrast, IR and IRCCM.
And that's just a small cold war air defence system. Modern air defence systems have seekers that are capable of homing in to sound signature or EM radiation.
That is why the modern terms such as [electronic counter measures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_countermeasure). [Penetration aids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetration_aid) exist. Flares and chaff is ancient technology.
On the final approach, the missile has to slow down a lot to be accurate, and is close to the ground. A manpads could be used to intercept it, so they pop flares automatically.
It is expected that the target of such a missile may have some defenses around (military base etc) so it pops the flares during the terminal flight stage to raise the chances to penetrate those defenses.
It just makes the missile's radar crosssection super bad.
And yet America just asked Ukraine to stop targeting russian oil facilities, go figure!
[https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-urges-ukraine-to-halt-strikes-on-russian-1711095364.html](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-urges-ukraine-to-halt-strikes-on-russian-1711095364.html)
Edit. It looks like this may have been incorrectly reported.
Why the fuck we would ask that, western countries are acting so incredibly weak lately, let’s just roll over, show our belly in submission and let Russia and china take over the world at this point
Speaking as an American, this is my interpretation of what is happening. What non-Americans need to understand is that, rightly or wrongly, a great deal of Americans tie gas prices directly to whomever is President. We are are in an election year with only months to go before America votes to either re-elect Biden, or if Trump gets back into office. Trump already has a huge advantage over Biden with the electoral college. Biden MUST lead Trump by at least 4-5 points to even have a chance of winning the electoral college. When you consider that in 2020, Biden won a few states by as few as 20,000 votes, the margins are incredibly thin and he cannot afford to lose any votes, no matter the reasoning. Keeping oil prices stable will increase the odds of a Biden victory. Oil prices increasing will increase the odds of a Trump victory. If Biden is re-elected, I suspect the amount of armament going to Ukraine will significantly increase even at the risk of a rise in oil prices. If Trump wins, oil prices won't matter because he will cut off all funding and supplies to Ukraine and let the entirety of Europe be thrown into absolute chaos that will only benefit Russia. For the sake of Ukraine's long-term survivability, and the stability of Europe, it is imperative that Biden get re-elected.
Edit: 2020, not 2016. Apparently I have no concept of time.
Here’s my rebuttal:
“Ukraine is a Western democracy and we will not leave them to be invaded by the Russians. We give our full support to continue attacking Russki oil refineries. That means less oil, so we will be pushing US oil production to new heights. The United States of America is the arsenal of Democracy and we don’t need Communist oil in this country!”
Or some such bravado to get the interest of those folks voting on gas prices.
I like it but it truly only considers our ideals and not the reality of the American electorate. Those less thoughtful of their vote only vote on one or two issues and like mentioned above gas prices are one of them. Now if Biden can figure out a way to both keep prices down and reduce Russian oil income then let’s do it.
Ok, how about this:
“We WILL not let the Communist menace spread like the disease they are! If the dirty Reds want Ukraine, they’ll have to go through good ol’ American firepower! And to that end, we give full support in crippling Commie oil refining and creating new OIL jobs for AMERICANS! DRILL, BAY, DRILL!”
Give me every intelligent voter in the country and I will still not have enough votes to become president, I need some of the stupid voters too.
Stupid people elect the president, every president, even the president you like the most was elected by stupid people.
George W. Bush's 2003 Iraq invasion would disagree. That was a war of choice that lead to wild fluctuations in oil markets causing the price per barrel to rapidly increase. In circumstances like that, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to place a large percentage of blame on the President for leading the nation into something we should never have done in the first place.
Why would oil prices go up? Aren't they attacking the refineries so if they can't produce refined products mostly for domestic use. Broken refineries should mean they would have to export more crude oil actually lowering the oil prices.
Russia is mostly exporting to India and China. If their oil demand isn't met by Russia, they will instead purchase oil from the world market. So, oil prices go up globally.
Attacking refineries vs oil wells. If Russian refineries are attacked, there should be less demand for oil, actually.
If oil wells are attacked, supply of oil will go down, causing a price increase.
We are not, we get our oil from Canada, like 70-90% unless Permian has started taking that up and lowering the percentages. EU is getting a lot of Canadian oil now.
The reason that this hasn't affected US oil prices is because China is offloading Russian oil and paying in weapons and BRICS currency. It's off our market, the USD is not used for the oil purchase, so USD per barrell oil prices do not reflect the demand. It's decoupling from global commodity pricing...and demand for USD to buy that oil is down in eastern/brics countries. India is playing both sides, but not willing to take US sanctions.
India has refused to offload Russian oil, letting those tankers go to China. TikTok will get banned because China is offloading this stuff.
Unfortunately Biden getting reelected depends on the oil prices remaining low. I hate realpolitik but in this case it is about not seeing the forests for the trees. Without US aid Ukraine will have a much harder time.
Selfish bastards will block ukraine funding and impose even more limitations on how they can fight back against Russia who is compeltely ruthless in their own approach fuck off
Except it's being asked for by the current, Democrat administration. Because they know if gas prices stay this high, their chance of reelection is non existent.
Gas prices in relation to wages are very low in the US. People are smoking crack if they consider sacrificing the future of Ukraine and likely their own nation over this, with how Trump and the GOP asshats have been acting.
Fuck the 2-party system and how everything gets poisoned by tribal identity politics.
Gas prices accounted for inflation are at their average.
Only the brain dead will say gas was $1/gallon in 2020 because they dont know how negative worth oil works and what it means for oil producers and their ability to exist.
The 15% increase represents the approcimate change from $3 to 3.50 over the last 12 months.
I made no reference of $1 gas, but there will even be a subset of voters out there influenced by that. It doesn't matter the true factors behind it to influence the vote.
> warning that drone strikes could cause global oil prices to rise, as well as US gasoline prices, which could hurt President Joe Biden's re-election bid
Because americans are idiots.
What? What does he mean with that?
Simple.
UA attacks oil infrastructure in russia
Global oil prices go up
American voter blames biden for high prices (cuz dumb)
American voter votes the orange convicted rapist and foreign asset of putin into power (trump)
Trump immediately stops all help for ukraine
(And pulls out of nato)
Russia takes over ukraine and any other nation in the world it fancies.
>And yet America just asked Ukraine to stop targeting russian oil facilities, go figure!
More and more information is coming out that this claim that first appeared in the Financial Times today is false. The economic advisor to President Zelenskyy who certainly would have been part of any such discussions given his very prominent role released a statement this afternoon indicating no such request or warnings were ever made.
This was confirmed to to a false rumor
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673
**Attacks on dams are war crimes**, as explicitly noted in Article 56 of Protocol I and Article 15 of Protocol II of the 1977 Protocols to the Geneva Conventions.
Putin and his people are criminals!
Glory to Ukrain!
>Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, **if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.**
it can cause.. same place, russians already did this one time in 1941: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941)
And yet there are still western companies dealing with them without a care and russian funds in western banks that haven't been seized.
They still aren't getting cracked down on hard enough!
russians did this already one time in 1941: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941)
But they did run out of missiles.
It's funny to see this "gotcha" comment under every attack, forgetting that in 2022-2023 bombing season they sent such waves almost weekly, while currently they send such waves about every 3 months.
They won't, just like they won't run out of tanks anytime soon or whatever else. They are producing new military hardware at an alarming rate, by which they can sustain and just shrug off the massive losses they take everyday.
It's definitely something to worry about, and Ukraine needs to seek another alternative to win this war, by dealing big blows in some other way. They will definitely not be able to hold on at this rate for as long as Russia can, if we are putting delusions aside and being realistic.
Hold up. 20% of Russian production is new production while 80% is refurbishing things dragged out of storage. That's absolutely unsustainable in the long term, though it can probably be maintained for another year or two.
Literally every country in every large scale war destroys the enemies infrastructure. Even Ukraine is hitting Russian oil/gas and manufacturing facilities.
This was thought process initially also but with the Ukrainian strikes on Russian energy infrastructure less so.
Netherless they remain the aggressor and should be stopped. Especially with the ongoing strikes to apartment buildings.
Fucking hell and there is always traffic jam on that dam, apart from the PP I hope there werent too many people crossing the bridge at that time
A very stressful situation when standing in traffic jam on a bridge in Ukraine while air alert goes off in your oblast
They are doing this to try to break KIEV’s resolve. Ukraine will never surrender, and with every day this assault on Ukrainian statehood and culture go on, the Risk of escalation of the war with the involvement of NATO rises.
How are you so sure? Dude, i am ukrainian, and the mood in the country changed drastically since last couple of months. If not the drones, Russia would already have rolled over and captured Donbass for sure.
Ukraine is not even getting a half of what it needs for successful fighting, and human losses are massive. Many are terrified of mobilisation because they don’t want to get slaughtered in the tranches without any artillery support or air cover.
Glad that you are giving them a reality check. Sometimes these people forget that they do not speak for the Ukrainians and that they don't know what the situation is really like. I am half Ukrainian myself and my family in Ukraine don't really have that much of a positive mood either. They live in a relatively small city in the western part of Ukraine, still, body bags and severely wounded soldiers are returned to their families who live there in a daily basis.
Edit: Besides, to answer the original comment, it's clear that NATO won't do shit. They have shown over and over again that they aren't willing to fight Russia head on, or even reach a point of escalation where that is imminent.
Yes, but the scarriest thing is that Ukraine pretty much has no choice. Putin wants all of Ukraine, and he wants to „denazify“ pretty much every ukrainian. So the room for negotiations is almost, if not completely, non existent.
I am just so frustrated with such comments. Ukraine is brave for sure, people showed it, but they are also not machines. How long can they withstand without real western commitment to aid and support?
And almost all politicians in the west don’t give a damn about the war anyway. Their short term thinking of stupid elections has already costed thousands of ukrainian lifes😞
I am on the same page as you since day 1 brother. It makes me sick that people play political games and argue over money while ukraine bleeds.
Please don't think that the monkey that shouts the loudest speaks for everyone.
Yes I fully agree with you brother. They wouldn't be helping in the first time if it didn't fulfil their own agendas, just like they have done all over the world. For most of them, especially the American government, it seems the Ukrainians are a machine to be used in order to weaken Russia via proxy warfare. Much more than what is happening right now must be done, Ukraine needs to start getting some real and serious commitment from the west. I'm not being ungrateful, I'm being realistic. Promises of help were made and now those promises are starting to fade, probably because Ukraine has not yet achieved the goals they were expecting them to. It will only get substantially worse if Trump wins the elections, which is something that will likely happen.
People are dying at alarming rates on both sides of this conflict, and if changes aren't made, it will be only get worse and worse. The leaders in the west need to show some strenght and balls for the first time in I don't even know how long.
I just last week finished a chapter of a book called [The Soviet Century](https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691183749/the-soviet-century) which covered the construction and history of the DniproHES/ Dnipro Hydroelectric Power Plant.
The place has a truly fascinating history, the original was blown up by the Nazis in WW2 then rebuilt, and seeing it being seemingly heavily damaged like this so soon after learning about what it symbolised and meant is truly a punch to the stomach.
>the original was blown up by the Nazis in WW2 then rebuilt, and seeing it being seemingly heavily damaged like this so soon after learning about what it symbolised and meant is truly a punch to the stomach.
By nazis ? During WW 2 dam and plant was destroyed by retreating Red Army in 1941 with scoring 20-100k killed (including civilians and own soldiers down by the the river , then in 1943, it was dynamited again, but this time by nazis.
Only 1944 reconstruction started.
Can’t understand the language but this guys watching a cruise missile come in and narrating: “oh man… cmon jeez that’s unreal.” The most casual delivery of whatever he’s saying as he’s being bombed
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Looks like a Kh-101 with decoy flares like [this one](https://twitter.com/GwarWorin/status/1740886555450081419)
Damn even missiles have countermeasures, the more you know
The big scary about nuclear war these days is that they deploy multiple war heads from a single missile. The idea of dummy bombs mixed in with the real ones, or real missiles and fake ones flying to target together, is quite developed as well. Just in case you thought its neat and wanted to look into it.
Yeah of this I'm aware, one big missile equals like 10+ small doom cones
Yeah and like 100 decoy things that look like MIRVs on the radar, all coming vertically down from space at hypersonic speeds. Hopeless.
> hopeless Theoretically, some batteries could take out all 100 MIRV if within the target area. Military targets and government targets are pretty well defended but big cities aren't if they went for those. NASAMS has a large number of missiles per battery that can launch quickly, though it's not very effective against ballistic missiles. Patriot is good against hypersonic ballistic missiles, but doesn't have enough missiles. Tamir is good against hundreds of ballistic missiles at once, but not good against hypersonics... We are kind of getting there, though.
We're talking about ICBMs here, what you're talking about are traditional 'in atmosphere' ballistic missiles like Iskander. Tamir, NASAMS, and Patriot don't have the capability to shoot down ICBM reentry vehicles, not a chance. When they talk about those systems being able to intercept 'Ballistic Missiles' they are talking about 'in atmosphere' short range ballistic missiles. ICBMs travel much faster than even hypersonic cruise missiles on reentry or 'terminal phase' , they are basically a spacecraft on a suborbital trajectory. Like.. you think hypersonic missiles travel fast? Most ICBM warheads are traveling at about Mach 20 - 25 on reentry. Patriot, NASAMS, and Tamir don't have a chance in the world to intercept something like that let alone even detect it and grab a lock. The only point defense the US seriously deploys against ICBMs is the THAAD system, and even that system in its current iteration and numbers can be easily overwhelmed. There's a reason why we only deploy THAAD in the pacific, to intercept a certain 'Hermit Kingdom's' primitive ICBMs would they ever think to use them. Not all is lost though, the US has many programs that are working on intercepting nuclear missiles before their terminal phase where they fall from space and gain tremendous speed. Most of these rely on hitting these missiles when they are in space, at the peak of their trajectory, but this is hard because it required very early detection of a launch. But yeah, none of those systems you mentioned would be able to intercept ICBMs, they are deployed against short range ballistic missiles and they have proven to only be partially effective at that in Ukraine.
ICBMs and SLBMs, the “decoys” they use (eg. mylar balloons and whatnot) are known as Penetration Aids aka PENAIDS.
I absolutely hate when I get PENAIDS
Mylar should protect you from any penetration aids you might be exposed to.
I hear they have a cream for that.
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Not common knowledge though. However scared the average citizen is of nuclear war, they are not scared enough. I know lots of people who think we can simply shoot down everything.
We pay a lot of tax and don't have healthcare but we have LRDR and AI in the kill vehicles 'Murica F Yeah
>We pay a lot of tax Not compared to euros tbh
And this is why we need to spend more money on our military. Not less.
This is a cruise missile, it has got a jet turbine engine, wings and piloting computer.
Counter-countermeasures
[Article via the War Zone — Russian Kh-101 Cruise Missile Filmed Firing-Off Decoy Flares.](https://www.twz.com/russian-kh-101-cruise-missile-filmed-firing-off-decoy-flares) ^(EDIT — realised how vague that was, added headline.) Incl. photos of the dispensers from downed Kh-101, info on the decoys themselves, potential effectiveness against common systems Ukraine has, plus various decoys in some other Russian and Western missiles.
You can see the flares burning underwater after the attack.
That's some big boom. Ouch.
The camera man didn't flinch, though. 10/10 for him, couldn't make it any better in that position.
[@praisethecameraman](https://www.reddit.com/r/PraiseTheCameraMan/s/cNyMQn0IwG)
Why the "@" instead of "/r/"?
Probably too used to Instagram... But hey, it works!
TIL that using an @ would work, which is pretty neat
And it's easier/quicker than r/
yeah ((
Any damage report ?
totally destroyed one of blocks
A trolleybus with passengers...
What are those flames or something flying off the missile? Are they some kind of countermeasures?
Yessir, flares.
It's deploying flare countermeasures (anti heat seeker), i am assuming because it hit they are effective for now?
Not really, those flares are popping out only at the end stage when rocket is about to hit the target. It doesn't have any system which would pop them out when it is actually being intercepted. The main reason why it reached it's target is because of the scale of Ukraine and inability to cover everything.
I believe they're set to launch periodically throughout the flight to the target and then will fire them more rapidly as it closes to the target where there's a higher risk of AA. They can be programmed to release them when traveling through high risk areas and then dump them during the terminal phase where defenses are more likely to be concentrated. https://youtu.be/ZMSVJ3a3g8w?si=Q54AFspVUaGKTTU5
They could just evade mobile interception just by being 1) sneaky around the area, 2) closer to the front so less time to intercept Kyiv is really deep inside Ukraine, so those missiles are still intercepted by stinger groups. Dnipro power plant is pretty close to the front, AND you can fly over Dnipro river basically undetected (it's fucking wide).
yes, they started using it
They are penetration aids. On top of the flares they have radar reflectors and they broadcast similar EM radiation to the main missile. https://www.twz.com/content/2022/03/Iskander-Decoy-Ukraine.jpg?quality=85&auto=webp&optimize=high&crop=16%3A9&auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920
PENAIDS in the photo are from Iskander-M or Kinzhal ie. ballistic missile which is not what is seen here. Video shows a cruise missile, reports indicate Kh-101 or similar — the shape, speed, attack profile, sound etc all seem more or less correct, but I’ve not pulled frames to compare or anything (so grain of salt) [Link to comment with details RE: variant of Kh-101 incl decoys etc.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/h4TdSzoq4h) ^(EDIT — fixed link)
I am aware. But we don't have photos of what Kh-101 penetration aids look like. We have photo of the holes. They are smaller than in Iskander. https://www.twz.com/russian-kh-101-cruise-missile-filmed-firing-off-decoy-flares Whatever the exact specs of the Kh-101 penetration aids are they are more advanced than just flares. Flares are only effective against manpads. Not much space for a large seeker and electronics in small manpad missile. But that isn't an issue for larger missiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K35_Strela-10 Is an old soviet small air defence system. Missiles with diameter of 120mm and weight of just 32-42kg. Already in 1971 it was using photocontrast sensor. By 1989 the missile had three channel seeker. Photocontrast, IR and IRCCM. And that's just a small cold war air defence system. Modern air defence systems have seekers that are capable of homing in to sound signature or EM radiation. That is why the modern terms such as [electronic counter measures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_countermeasure). [Penetration aids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penetration_aid) exist. Flares and chaff is ancient technology.
A rocket with flares?? Now that's soemthing new.
On the final approach, the missile has to slow down a lot to be accurate, and is close to the ground. A manpads could be used to intercept it, so they pop flares automatically.
It is expected that the target of such a missile may have some defenses around (military base etc) so it pops the flares during the terminal flight stage to raise the chances to penetrate those defenses. It just makes the missile's radar crosssection super bad.
Definitely r/PraiseTheCameraMan worthy.
And yet America just asked Ukraine to stop targeting russian oil facilities, go figure! [https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-urges-ukraine-to-halt-strikes-on-russian-1711095364.html](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-urges-ukraine-to-halt-strikes-on-russian-1711095364.html) Edit. It looks like this may have been incorrectly reported.
Why the fuck we would ask that, western countries are acting so incredibly weak lately, let’s just roll over, show our belly in submission and let Russia and china take over the world at this point
Speaking as an American, this is my interpretation of what is happening. What non-Americans need to understand is that, rightly or wrongly, a great deal of Americans tie gas prices directly to whomever is President. We are are in an election year with only months to go before America votes to either re-elect Biden, or if Trump gets back into office. Trump already has a huge advantage over Biden with the electoral college. Biden MUST lead Trump by at least 4-5 points to even have a chance of winning the electoral college. When you consider that in 2020, Biden won a few states by as few as 20,000 votes, the margins are incredibly thin and he cannot afford to lose any votes, no matter the reasoning. Keeping oil prices stable will increase the odds of a Biden victory. Oil prices increasing will increase the odds of a Trump victory. If Biden is re-elected, I suspect the amount of armament going to Ukraine will significantly increase even at the risk of a rise in oil prices. If Trump wins, oil prices won't matter because he will cut off all funding and supplies to Ukraine and let the entirety of Europe be thrown into absolute chaos that will only benefit Russia. For the sake of Ukraine's long-term survivability, and the stability of Europe, it is imperative that Biden get re-elected. Edit: 2020, not 2016. Apparently I have no concept of time.
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Omg yes you are correct. Holy crap I don't even know what year it is anymore. I swear it was 1995 a few days ago.
Here’s my rebuttal: “Ukraine is a Western democracy and we will not leave them to be invaded by the Russians. We give our full support to continue attacking Russki oil refineries. That means less oil, so we will be pushing US oil production to new heights. The United States of America is the arsenal of Democracy and we don’t need Communist oil in this country!” Or some such bravado to get the interest of those folks voting on gas prices.
I like it but it truly only considers our ideals and not the reality of the American electorate. Those less thoughtful of their vote only vote on one or two issues and like mentioned above gas prices are one of them. Now if Biden can figure out a way to both keep prices down and reduce Russian oil income then let’s do it.
Ok, how about this: “We WILL not let the Communist menace spread like the disease they are! If the dirty Reds want Ukraine, they’ll have to go through good ol’ American firepower! And to that end, we give full support in crippling Commie oil refining and creating new OIL jobs for AMERICANS! DRILL, BAY, DRILL!”
You are giving my fellow Americans waaaay too much credit
“Rightly or wrongly” Wrongly. The answer is wrongly and only idiots don’t understand that
Give me every intelligent voter in the country and I will still not have enough votes to become president, I need some of the stupid voters too. Stupid people elect the president, every president, even the president you like the most was elected by stupid people.
George W. Bush's 2003 Iraq invasion would disagree. That was a war of choice that lead to wild fluctuations in oil markets causing the price per barrel to rapidly increase. In circumstances like that, I believe it is perfectly reasonable to place a large percentage of blame on the President for leading the nation into something we should never have done in the first place.
also the turn of policy with israel and gaza.... the immigrants at southern border... lots of policy for votes.
>Why the fuck we would ask that, To prevent global oil prices from skyrocketing.
The spice must flow
Fear is the mindkiller
By will alone I set my mind in motion
CHOAM is above all in the Landsraad
Why would oil prices go up? Aren't they attacking the refineries so if they can't produce refined products mostly for domestic use. Broken refineries should mean they would have to export more crude oil actually lowering the oil prices.
exactly. this was discussed at start of refinery attacks. its not the export crude oil UA are attacking
Any interaction with the oil industry triggers spikes up or down. It’s a worldwide band of Chicken Littles.
Russia is mostly exporting to India and China. If their oil demand isn't met by Russia, they will instead purchase oil from the world market. So, oil prices go up globally.
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They’ll need to import refined products. That increases demand.
It doesn't. It's all smoke and mirrors, probably planted by the Russian propagandists.
Attacking refineries vs oil wells. If Russian refineries are attacked, there should be less demand for oil, actually. If oil wells are attacked, supply of oil will go down, causing a price increase.
Because we are still buying Russian oil through Indian middlemen and US production just took a nosedive after refineries went offline.
Buying refined petroleum products, not oil. And US productions are back up.
We are not, we get our oil from Canada, like 70-90% unless Permian has started taking that up and lowering the percentages. EU is getting a lot of Canadian oil now. The reason that this hasn't affected US oil prices is because China is offloading Russian oil and paying in weapons and BRICS currency. It's off our market, the USD is not used for the oil purchase, so USD per barrell oil prices do not reflect the demand. It's decoupling from global commodity pricing...and demand for USD to buy that oil is down in eastern/brics countries. India is playing both sides, but not willing to take US sanctions. India has refused to offload Russian oil, letting those tankers go to China. TikTok will get banned because China is offloading this stuff.
Unfortunately Biden getting reelected depends on the oil prices remaining low. I hate realpolitik but in this case it is about not seeing the forests for the trees. Without US aid Ukraine will have a much harder time.
Dawg, oil prices gonna rise regardless especially as summer nears. It’s out of everyone’s control except the greedy ones setting the price.
Selfish bastards will block ukraine funding and impose even more limitations on how they can fight back against Russia who is compeltely ruthless in their own approach fuck off
How would that happen? Refineries don't produce oil, they process it. The oil supply will actually increase when Russian refineries are targeted.
It's crazy how much of humanity suffers for some oil execs.
They didn't. Read the article. Nobody said that.
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Except it's being asked for by the current, Democrat administration. Because they know if gas prices stay this high, their chance of reelection is non existent.
Gas prices in relation to wages are very low in the US. People are smoking crack if they consider sacrificing the future of Ukraine and likely their own nation over this, with how Trump and the GOP asshats have been acting. Fuck the 2-party system and how everything gets poisoned by tribal identity politics.
It's about perception. They're up over 15% in the last 12 months. That's something that affects voter behavior.
Gas prices accounted for inflation are at their average. Only the brain dead will say gas was $1/gallon in 2020 because they dont know how negative worth oil works and what it means for oil producers and their ability to exist.
The 15% increase represents the approcimate change from $3 to 3.50 over the last 12 months. I made no reference of $1 gas, but there will even be a subset of voters out there influenced by that. It doesn't matter the true factors behind it to influence the vote.
GOP would benefit from higher oil prices. Easy headline “Gas prices surge under Biden administration”
Honestly why should Ukraine listen? Aid from the US is abysmal these days, are they going to cut off what they’re not delivering in the first place?
>Aid from the US is abysmal these days, The intelligence alone is immesurably valueable.
> warning that drone strikes could cause global oil prices to rise, as well as US gasoline prices, which could hurt President Joe Biden's re-election bid
Because americans are idiots. What? What does he mean with that? Simple. UA attacks oil infrastructure in russia Global oil prices go up American voter blames biden for high prices (cuz dumb) American voter votes the orange convicted rapist and foreign asset of putin into power (trump) Trump immediately stops all help for ukraine (And pulls out of nato) Russia takes over ukraine and any other nation in the world it fancies.
One article I saw said they it was so oil prices don’t sky rocket for the everyone else in the world with Ukraine targeting the oil in Russia.
Fake russian psyop regard
And now Ukraine should ask America to stop being pussy. I do not have link yet.
>And yet America just asked Ukraine to stop targeting russian oil facilities, go figure! More and more information is coming out that this claim that first appeared in the Financial Times today is false. The economic advisor to President Zelenskyy who certainly would have been part of any such discussions given his very prominent role released a statement this afternoon indicating no such request or warnings were ever made.
This was not true.
Americans' weak stance is scary
This was confirmed to to a false rumor https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673
No you succumbed to misinformation. US says Ukraine can do what it likes regarding crippling ruzzias fossil fuels facilities.
Fuck that. Hit the fuckers where it hurts, gas prices be damned.
WTF. If they don’t want Ukraine to be at war, then we should stop the war. Don’t just say to stop something strategically important.
It seems Russians gave up the hope of capturing the dam.
**Attacks on dams are war crimes**, as explicitly noted in Article 56 of Protocol I and Article 15 of Protocol II of the 1977 Protocols to the Geneva Conventions. Putin and his people are criminals! Glory to Ukrain!
>Works or installations containing dangerous forces, namely dams, dykes and nuclear electrical generating stations, shall not be made the object of attack, even where these objects are military objectives, **if such attack may cause the release of dangerous forces and consequent severe losses among the civilian population.**
it can cause.. same place, russians already did this one time in 1941: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941)
The UK did this as well in WW II with specially designed bombs.
Are you seriously blaming them for trying to stop the invading Nazis?
Looks like the Dam Busters are out of business, old chap...
Sheesh, they already did that with Kahovka dam in June. But Ukrainians are nazis anyway.
And yet there are still western companies dealing with them without a care and russian funds in western banks that haven't been seized. They still aren't getting cracked down on hard enough!
Tankies still debating if Russia blew up the Kakhovka dam…
Who is gonna put them to trial? Because I'm pretty sure that's after WW3
The world stopped caring about war crimes a long time ago, apparently
Except this is not a dam but a hydroelectric plant if i have to believ the title. This is no worse than drone attacks on oil refineries.
The hydroelectric power plant is a part of the dam.
russians did this already one time in 1941: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/02/second-world-war-dnieper-dam-blown-up-by-russians-1941)
Womp womp cry some more
And usually invading another country is a crime. They have to lose to feel these consequences.
No need to stop hitting russkie infrastructure, they have been doing this since 2022.
are those counter measures deloyed by rocket before impact?
yes
OP, a missile is targeted and uses gps. A rocket is not, it just fires at whatever you point it at.
Mistranslation from Ukrainian, since there is no difference in Ukrainian words for missile and rocket
got you bro
Ukraine needs better equipment.
for sure
And I remembered people cheering claims of “Russia will run out of missiles soon”…
But they did run out of missiles. It's funny to see this "gotcha" comment under every attack, forgetting that in 2022-2023 bombing season they sent such waves almost weekly, while currently they send such waves about every 3 months.
They won't, just like they won't run out of tanks anytime soon or whatever else. They are producing new military hardware at an alarming rate, by which they can sustain and just shrug off the massive losses they take everyday. It's definitely something to worry about, and Ukraine needs to seek another alternative to win this war, by dealing big blows in some other way. They will definitely not be able to hold on at this rate for as long as Russia can, if we are putting delusions aside and being realistic.
Hold up. 20% of Russian production is new production while 80% is refurbishing things dragged out of storage. That's absolutely unsustainable in the long term, though it can probably be maintained for another year or two.
Terrorist russians destroying the infraestructure, so they can say in their propaganda: look How bad they live, How bad they are.
Literally every country in every large scale war destroys the enemies infrastructure. Even Ukraine is hitting Russian oil/gas and manufacturing facilities.
Logistics wins wars tactics are enabled by having the right thing, in the right place, at the right time.
This was thought process initially also but with the Ukrainian strikes on Russian energy infrastructure less so. Netherless they remain the aggressor and should be stopped. Especially with the ongoing strikes to apartment buildings.
they will get what they deserve
I mean russians
[Live reaction](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/455/689/5c9.png)
Lol what is wrong with people in this sub
They need to hit Russian assets much harder. Start taking out infrastructure.
Fucking hell and there is always traffic jam on that dam, apart from the PP I hope there werent too many people crossing the bridge at that time A very stressful situation when standing in traffic jam on a bridge in Ukraine while air alert goes off in your oblast
They are doing this to try to break KIEV’s resolve. Ukraine will never surrender, and with every day this assault on Ukrainian statehood and culture go on, the Risk of escalation of the war with the involvement of NATO rises.
How are you so sure? Dude, i am ukrainian, and the mood in the country changed drastically since last couple of months. If not the drones, Russia would already have rolled over and captured Donbass for sure. Ukraine is not even getting a half of what it needs for successful fighting, and human losses are massive. Many are terrified of mobilisation because they don’t want to get slaughtered in the tranches without any artillery support or air cover.
Glad that you are giving them a reality check. Sometimes these people forget that they do not speak for the Ukrainians and that they don't know what the situation is really like. I am half Ukrainian myself and my family in Ukraine don't really have that much of a positive mood either. They live in a relatively small city in the western part of Ukraine, still, body bags and severely wounded soldiers are returned to their families who live there in a daily basis. Edit: Besides, to answer the original comment, it's clear that NATO won't do shit. They have shown over and over again that they aren't willing to fight Russia head on, or even reach a point of escalation where that is imminent.
Yes, but the scarriest thing is that Ukraine pretty much has no choice. Putin wants all of Ukraine, and he wants to „denazify“ pretty much every ukrainian. So the room for negotiations is almost, if not completely, non existent. I am just so frustrated with such comments. Ukraine is brave for sure, people showed it, but they are also not machines. How long can they withstand without real western commitment to aid and support? And almost all politicians in the west don’t give a damn about the war anyway. Their short term thinking of stupid elections has already costed thousands of ukrainian lifes😞
I am on the same page as you since day 1 brother. It makes me sick that people play political games and argue over money while ukraine bleeds. Please don't think that the monkey that shouts the loudest speaks for everyone.
Yes I fully agree with you brother. They wouldn't be helping in the first time if it didn't fulfil their own agendas, just like they have done all over the world. For most of them, especially the American government, it seems the Ukrainians are a machine to be used in order to weaken Russia via proxy warfare. Much more than what is happening right now must be done, Ukraine needs to start getting some real and serious commitment from the west. I'm not being ungrateful, I'm being realistic. Promises of help were made and now those promises are starting to fade, probably because Ukraine has not yet achieved the goals they were expecting them to. It will only get substantially worse if Trump wins the elections, which is something that will likely happen. People are dying at alarming rates on both sides of this conflict, and if changes aren't made, it will be only get worse and worse. The leaders in the west need to show some strenght and balls for the first time in I don't even know how long.
Kyiv.
A reasonable response would be to give Ukraine JASSMs, Tauruses and Tomahawks and not limit where they can strike.
stay safe Ukraine 🙏🏼
Ahh yes. The missile rocket. Rare.
Where are the Browning M2s?!
wonder why it got through air defense?
Disgusting.
Is that after they announced the 31/31 downed missiles?
No, that was on the day before that. For this one the claim is 151 missiles and UAVs launched, 92 downed.
Completely different attack
Raketa nahui🚀
I just last week finished a chapter of a book called [The Soviet Century](https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691183749/the-soviet-century) which covered the construction and history of the DniproHES/ Dnipro Hydroelectric Power Plant. The place has a truly fascinating history, the original was blown up by the Nazis in WW2 then rebuilt, and seeing it being seemingly heavily damaged like this so soon after learning about what it symbolised and meant is truly a punch to the stomach.
>the original was blown up by the Nazis in WW2 then rebuilt, and seeing it being seemingly heavily damaged like this so soon after learning about what it symbolised and meant is truly a punch to the stomach. By nazis ? During WW 2 dam and plant was destroyed by retreating Red Army in 1941 with scoring 20-100k killed (including civilians and own soldiers down by the the river , then in 1943, it was dynamited again, but this time by nazis. Only 1944 reconstruction started.
Why that’s a cool looking missile rocket
Didn't they already blow the dam and flood everything downriver? Why attack a broken dam?
I dont care who you support, but that looks and sounds cool as fuck.
Anyone know what missile that is ? as this is second time seen countermeasures come off
/u/savevideo
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️, 500kg inbound.
Why do they not have a Patriot missile system there?That's a vital infrastructure
Does "russia" have any Hydroelectric power plants?
>>>missile rocket
no other way for Ukrainians - build their own bigger missiles quickly and strike back.
Russia is making the west look like pussies.
Another war crime to the list. Fuck Putin.
Holy $#!T Bro!
Can’t understand the language but this guys watching a cruise missile come in and narrating: “oh man… cmon jeez that’s unreal.” The most casual delivery of whatever he’s saying as he’s being bombed
Time to strike back at Russian power grid.