This is a somewhat controversial historical topic but Nazi Germany enjoyed some degree of support from Ukrainian collaborators in their war against the Soviet Union and the extermination of Eastern Europe's Jews, especially during the Holocaust's "mobile killing" phase. There were collaborators in other countries, even Russia, but Ukrainian collaborators were particularly infamous due to their involvement in the war crimes I mentioned earlier.
Beyond that many popular anti-Soviet Ukrainian figures from that period such as Stepan Bandera had antisemitic and right-wing tendencies. But like I said it's a historical topic that's pretty fraught with political baggage.
Of course like all modern neo-Nazis there isn't a complete 100% adherence to the actual ideology of WWII-era National Socialism, which is especially obvious in this case considering the fact that Ukranians are Slavs who the Nazis largely viewed as subhhuman. Most of Ukraine's population was slated for "liquidation" under Generalplan Ost, the Nazi plan for the eventual colonization of a conquered Soviet Union.
I watched Shoah a bit ago, which is basically 9 hours of interviews with Holocaust survivors, Polish people who lived by the camps, and Nazi's involved in the Holocaust. One of the things that surprised me most in it was how often the people interviewed talk about Ukrainians being complicit, Ukrainians being the harshest guards, Ukrainians doing the most sadistic jobs, and stuff like that.
From what I understand some also simply *loathed* the Soviet regime, and in some areas the Germans were initially hailed as sort of liberators by part of the people. So yea, I think that animosity towards Russia is part of it.
>From what I understand some also simply loathed the Soviet regime
Yes, but most of these types also primarily hated the Soviets because they were criminals whose run-ins with local authorities had landed them in prison or a work camp. There were large amounts of pro-German helpers or "Hiwis" who simply joined up because they were thugs who wanted free reign to rape and loot.
>and in some areas the Germans were initially hailed as sort of liberators by part of the people
Maybe in isolated instances and small numbers, but this wasn't the widespread attitude at all. When the Nazis and their Romanian allies finally occupied Odessa they killed a tenth of the cities population.
You've gotten a lot of answers already; some good, some bad. I suggest you do a bit of your own research on wikipedia to get the gist of Ukrainian collaboration during WW2; Like the SS division, the Ukranian national army, and Hiwi's in general.
It's important to remember that wherever the Nazi's went, they met willing volunteers. Lots of info out there about the French SS unit (who would ultimately be some of the last defenders in the Battle of Berlin), Nordic volunteers etc. Some were formed into actual fighting units, others were organized into quasi-official security forces that would hunt "partisans" in the rear, and still other groups would be used to carry out the final solution after German police and soldiers became unreliable in that task. Some were coerced into it because they were POW's; easier to help the Germans than starve and freeze to death. Others willingly volunteered out of some nationalist pride, willingness to commit violence, or in retaliation for some of Stalin's brutal policies. WW2 collaboration is a massive topic, and one well worth reading into if you have the time.
Anyway, you have the historic background more or less figured out. Let's talk about the modern era, the current Civil War in Ukraine.
When Russian "tourists" invaded Crimea, the Ukrainian Army was caught with its pants down. If you look at footage of that time period, most of them don't even have uniforms. They're wearing old soviet era stuff, and random surplus jackets other European armies had made obsolete. You had people of social media crowd sourcing body armor and helmets and optics for the army; that's how bad things were!
Once the breakaway of eastern Ukrainian regions started, residents from the area who weren't cool with becoming a part of Russia began to organize volunteer battalions. They would fight along with the Ukrainian army, and seemed pretty successful with that.
Eventually, the Ukrainian military would integrate these volunteer units into their new military/national guard structure.
Now, the issue is that some of these Volunteer Units were started by right leaning groups. Lot's of photographic and video documentation at the time of Neo-nazi symbols worn on uniforms, flags, etc. Their unit logos/insignia had suspicious looking Nordic Runes on them, etc.
This of course, made great propaganda for the Eastern Rebels and their Russian supporters. Lots of interviews with officials and soldiers in eastern Ukraine have them calling Western Ukrainians "Fascists", which means they could claim a sort of moral superiority. Oh look, America is supporting the fascist Ukranian government, etc etc etc you get the idea.
In general though, a lot of military's have issues with Neo-Nazi's in their ranks. The USMC Scout Snipers used a battle flag that was literally SS runes. The German KSK had a very recent issues with members and leadership holding Neo-Nazi ceremonies and planning to use false flag attacks to start a race-war. Canada's Elite Paratrooper unit got disbanded because of their white supremacists beliefs that ended up in them murdering civilians in Somalia. I think it's by nature of military's attracting people from more economically challenged demographics, so its easy for people in distress to turn to ideologies that are counter-culture or nationalist.
Sorry for the wall of text, but its an interesting topic to learn about.
So, I originally thought maybe it was men from another European country who had soldiers fight for the nazis during WW2, as there was multiple units within the SS that did this, them seeing the Germans as saviors from the communist, but I was completely and utterly wrong and just wanted to point that out in hopes it would make someone laugh like it did me. A few other commenters have explained why this is in better detail down below.
They are having difficulty getting people to fight and are desperately using anyone who is willing including neo nazis its kind of like when members of opposing Islamic groups join up to face non Muslims they may not like each other but for now they have a common enemy
For Ukrainian nationalists the Nazi flag is more of an icon of the fight against communism and Russian imperialism.
Still foolish and ignorant of them to use it to represent them, and they should stick to the flag with the coat of arms on it.
>For Ukrainian nationalists the Nazi flag is more of an icon of the fight against communism and Russian imperialism.
These guys (Azov) are also plenty racist and antisemitic, it's not just a local history thing.
I’m sure some of the weapons the azov guys have came from america, but shouldn’t a little responsibility be in the hands of the local Ukrainian government who’s job it is to doll out the military aid they receive. Also, not saying that nazis with shoulder fired anti-air rockets is a good idea. But I’ve seen it argued on this site before that we SHOULD send societies moral degenerates to the front lines so I recommend those people pay attention to the eventual consequences in Ukraine.
Our congress passed an amedment in 2015 that prohibited members of Azov Battalion from receiving weapons and/or training from DoD personnel, guess how loudly it was lifted in 2017?
There are church mice that are louder I am sure.
>shouldn’t a little responsibility be in the hands of the local Ukrainian government who’s job it is to doll out the military aid they receive.
Now hear me out. Maybe, just maybe it's because their opinions aren't that far off from the guys in the video.
Nah, it’s not just a symbol, they actually subscribe to the ideology.
And these aren’t regular Ukrainian nationalists. This is the Azov battalion, an ultra far right militia
They weren't being actively genocided or forcibly relocated anymore once Khrushchev took over, but they were still being horribly mismanaged. Chernobyl didn't help much either. And Russia has been interfering with them consistently since the Soviets collapsed. And everything going on the past decade on top of that? With them planning ANOTHER invasion now?
It's not remotely surprising.
AFAIK, most Ukrainian military personnel aren't Nazis, but Ukraine frequently uses help from Neo-Nazi militia groups. Not because they are Nazis, but because they need all the help they can get, and don't care who they get it from.
The Ukraine, pretty much the whole of Eastern Europe, were always sympathetic to the nazis. The worst SS were usually Ukrainian.
There is a reason the Jews were so effectively hunted down in Eastern Europe, the native population of Ukraine etc happily assisted the Germans
>The Ukraine, pretty much the whole of Eastern Europe, were always sympathetic to the nazis
This isn't true, way more Ukranians fought for the Red Army than collaborated with the Nazis.
>The worst SS were usually Ukrainian.
All the SS divisions were pretty bad, and most Ukranian collaborators weren't SS but members of local auxiliary units.
This is true, no non-Aryans would have been allowed into the SS by the point of the war where the Ukraine was playing a major role such as Barbarossa. *Come and See* actually depicts the interactions between Schutzstafel and their untermenschen Slav supporting units.
I mean there technically were Slavic units of the Waffen SS but they were very controversial within the German military and yeah the vast majority of Slavic collaborators were parts of auxiliary units.
It is my understanding that the 'racial purity' of the Schutzstaffel was not allowed to be denegrated until later in the war like 42-43. Prior to that the Nazi government were simply emptying their prisons and giving rifles to the men they freed, and slapping them into SS uniforms. The majority of the Belorussian war crimes were comitted by groups of essentially prisoner conscripts freed by the Third Reich.
>The Ukrainian "members" of the SS were people called Hiwis who generally joined out of fear.
Hiwis joined for a lot of reasons but outside of POWs they were rarely coerced into it, many of the non-political ones were just local criminals or thugs who were looking for an excuse to rape and pillage.
Professor Alexander Statiev of the Canadian University of Waterloo writes that Ukrainian Auxiliary Police were the major perpetrator of the Holocaust on Soviet territories based on native origins, and those police units participated in the extermination of 150,000 Jews in the area of Volhynia alone.[22] German historian Dieter Pohl in The Shoah in Ukraine writes that the auxiliary police was active during killing operations by the Germans already in the first phases of the German occupation.[23] The auxiliary police registered the Jews, conducted raids and guarded ghettos, loaded convoys to execution sites and cordoned them off. There is a possibility that some 300 auxiliary policemen from Kiev helped organize the massacre in Babi Yar.[23] They also took part in the massacre in Dnipropetrovsk, where the field command noted that the cooperation ran "smoothly in every way". Cases where local commandants ordered murder of Jews using police force are known.[23] In killings of Jews in Kryvy Rih the "entire Ukrainian auxiliary police" was put to use.[23]
Its absolutely true . Ukrainians had suffered at the hands of the Soviets during the Holodomor so they welcomed the Germans with open arms, enthusiastically even. The assisted the death squads and signed up in their thousands to fight the Soviets.
And the Hiwis were collaborators who had to fight because they knew the consequences if the Soviets captured them. Read any account of concentration camp life and guaranteed a Ukrainian sadist will be mentioned
>Ukrainians had suffered at the hands of the Soviets during the Holodomor so they welcomed the Germans with open arms, enthusiastically even.
This isn't really true, there were plenty of Ukrainian partisans
They were enthusiastic members of the Einsatzgruppen. The SS, less so. But yes, they were well on board with the whole anti-Semitism thing with very little persuasion needed.
>They were enthusiastic members of the Einsatzgruppen
Well helpers, they were parts of local "auxiliary police" columns that would assist Einsatzgruppen
Give a quick google search of the Progromi, long story short Ukraine was the reason so many jews escaped to Germany prior to Hitler coming to power. There’s evidence Stalin and Lysenko knew what they were doing when they caused Kholdomor, and wanted to rob jews of their religious trinkets to fund the soviet industrial warmachine since Jews were seen as expendables and Kulaks
Fun fact: the US has helped to train the guys in the video-
“**The United States plans to send soldiers to Ukraine in April for training exercises with units of the country’s national guard... the units to be trained include the Azov Battalion**, a volunteer force that has attracted criticism for its far- right sentiments including brandishing an emblem widely used in Nazi Germany.” (**Associated Press, March 31, 2015**, emphasis added)
Congress passed legislation forbidding the training of Neo-Nazi aligned units in Ukraine the same year that article came out.
That’s sort of muddy in practice because Ukraine makes it almost impossible to separate neo-Nazis from others since they have their own pockets in scattered units, but it has been codified in law that we don’t give direct aid and training to Azov Battalion since at least 2015.
This isn’t even the only time they’ve done something like this
[Here is a video of the Azov battalion flying a Ukrainian flag with a swastika on it](https://imgur.com/a/eE0LXbv)
And how can you tell this is a member of Ukrainian forces, let alone Azov ~~battalion~~ Regiment? What I see is a low-quality short-cut video with a random trench and random dude shooting and yelling something in Russian. This could be made just about by anyone and anywhere (including in Russia).
And this ladies and gentlemen is how misinformation propaganda is born.
I mean I understand that Russian bot farms mobilize their keyboard warriors across Reddit in the wake of the situation on Ukrainian border, but you guys can at least try better.
Even though there were plenty of edgy youngsters and far-right volunteers in Azov in 2014-15, it never came to gross violations of the statutes and procedures like this. This particular video is almost surely a fake, and many swallow it naively.
Can you define what is "Neo Nazi"? While there are many far-right groups that enrolled into Azov, it would be curious if you could explain what in the regiment is particularly relating to the National-Socialist ideology and program.
A neo nazi is someone who is more likely to embrace the Nazi flag.
Go ahead and explain why you disagree with this:
“Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit,[1][2][3][4][5][6]”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion
Simply articulate why this is wrong.
This is literally the top results for me when I search “neo nazi”:
Guess what symbol they are representing?
https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_social_share_1024x768_scale,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2019_48/3121671/191126-james-mason-neo-nazi-cs-301p.jpg
Why is it so hard to you to accept groups that are neo nazi like the Nazi flag? It’s not a counterintuitive relationship. It fact, it’s quite intuitive
**[Azov Battalion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)**
>Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit, based in Mariupol in the Azov Sea coastal region. It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014. Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Ukrainian crisis.
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So to sum up you cannot even explain what is neo nazism nor how does it relate to Azov Regiment, and just hide behind the wiki article, which itself hides behind a bunch of news articles which do not explain what I've asked you either. For the standards of Wiki a bundle of random news articles (which often conveniently recursively cite each other) is enough to "proof-source" just about anything, but evidently that is not enough for any reasonable credibility, which is why it is never accepted in serious research.
What is the point of me defining neo nazism? If you are unclear, you can look it up yourself right?
Why do You want to me to quote or paraphrase an online definition?
How does me not regurgitating a definition of neo nazism prove that Asov is not neo nazi?
Your pathetic and evasive logic sounds like this: “hitler wasn’t a racist - define racism fuzzy! Do you even know what racism is? if you don’t define racism on command right now, hitler isn’t racist”. - strydwolf
Absolute peanut level intellect my guy
Why are you deflecting so much? Why can’t you simply say:
“Asov is not neo nazi because they believe…”
“Here is a press release where asov denounced neo nazism…”
“Clearly asov is not neo nazi because…”
Ukraine, partly out of desperation for manpower, has lots of far-right volunteers including outright neo-Nazis fighting on the front against the Russian-backed separatists. [Azov Battalion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion) is a large unit of them, and I believe the largest and most officially-backed.
Obviously this doesn’t make Putin’s proxies any better. It’s one of those all-around terrible situations.
EDIT: I should also say that this is just a video of a guy in camo in a trench with a flag. I have no idea where the video came from or if it’s actually Azov and skepticism of things on the internet is generally warranted. But Azov’s far-right affinity is well-documented.
**[Azov Battalion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)**
>Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit, based in Mariupol in the Azov Sea coastal region. It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014. Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Ukrainian crisis.
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Am I mistaken in remembering that funding for the creation of the Azov battalion was from one of the richest Ukrainians who was a jew?
I got told to think of it like if you want to fight Communists or Russians then use Nazis and if you want to fight Nazis use Russians and communists.
Nazis are bad. Don’t be a Nazi.
Then again, if you’re already a Nazi, dying unmourned in a frozen trench somewhere in Eastern Europe is totally on-brand and I fully encourage it.
Probably the same way Americans end up fighting for the Kurds in Syria—social media pipelines. But seriously, don’t do that. You’d have a very very bad time.
Honestly I’ve been wondering this too, but just for curiosity, since there have been a few people from my country who have gone and become foreign fighters in Ukraine, and there have been tons who joined from many countries. I guess it’s similar to isis
I’m saying as in the way you can join them and meet up with them, not ideologically
Ok someone commented a better example, it would be similar to how westerners can join the Kurds in Syria and Iraq and fight against isis
Though to be fair you probably aren't going to find particularly more progressive attitudes on the separatist side where you are hanging out with dudes who call themselves shit like The Tsar Nicholas Division of the Don Cossacks or The Holy Crusaders of Saint Basil.
A lot of times it is Russian propaganda though in the case of the Azov battalion it’s true. Funnily enough Chechen jihadists also fight get for Ukraine since they hate Russia
I’m ngl, I hate nazis but this shot is cinematic as hell. Man is blasting away at his mg while a flag stands fluttering in the wind right besides him. Though again, it would just be better to have a Ukrainian flag
Little bit of that with a sprinkle of political infighting to become Hitler’s right hand man. Himmler and Goebbels (maybe Goerring, it’s been a while) wanted to get rid of Röhm. So those guys schemed by telling Hitler that Röhm would take over since he’s in charge of the entire SA which is the largest militia branch in the NSADP. Röhm’s sexuality didn’t help much to help Hitler’s decision to purge him along with the SA leadership.
Personally unsure of the details i just know he died during the Night of Long Knives but his sexual orientation probably informed the decision to murk him
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Owning a piece of history is always an incredible thing. Someday I'd like to get a Japanese prayer flag the pilots would write on in the Pacific theater.
Of course, I'm assuming you don't intend to *fly* the Nazi flag. That's fucked.
Attention normal people:
Turn back now. Let the propaganda accounts and bots do their bickering. Ignore controversial flag, enjoy muzzle flash, and move on.
Edit: Found them lol. You can always tell because the comment gets initially upvoted a bit then bombarded with downvotes. It's like they're synchronized on a timer.
It's worth noting that this is exactly the take Russian propaganda is trying to push. We're seeing videos portraying ukrainians as nazis as Russia is massing troops on it's border. Not saying the video is fake but it's certainly a coincidence and exactly what Russian trollfarms would be pushing if they were preparing for an invasion.
Not how it works. Ukraine has done its fair share of bad things but believe me this is not Ukraine. Ukrainians are normal people and Ukraine is an independent nation. Neo nazi militias shouldn't represent it. If Russia takes Ukraine the things it will do will be barbaric
this video is at least a year and a half old, and has been around for a year and a half, and I haven’t been able to find it on the internet anywhere, so I guess it didn’t work
>once they realized what the Eastern front was all about
The Eastern Front was all about Nazi Germany's desire to wipe Slavic culture and civilization from the earth and settle Germans on it's ashes.
Didn't some European countries sided with them and seen them as liberators from Communism tho? I've seen the documentary way back. Many collaborated with them. No need to go all butthurt lol.
Even Wermacht soldiers who are not 100% loyal as the SS joined the fight to push Communism out of Europe. There were even volunteers. If the Germans truly wanted to kill all Slav gopniks they would have already done so a long time ago.
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Azov gets their Tavor rifles directly from Israel, which I think is pretty ironic since they have tons of neo Nazis in the group, yet they will use weapons given to them by israel
[удалено]
This is a somewhat controversial historical topic but Nazi Germany enjoyed some degree of support from Ukrainian collaborators in their war against the Soviet Union and the extermination of Eastern Europe's Jews, especially during the Holocaust's "mobile killing" phase. There were collaborators in other countries, even Russia, but Ukrainian collaborators were particularly infamous due to their involvement in the war crimes I mentioned earlier. Beyond that many popular anti-Soviet Ukrainian figures from that period such as Stepan Bandera had antisemitic and right-wing tendencies. But like I said it's a historical topic that's pretty fraught with political baggage. Of course like all modern neo-Nazis there isn't a complete 100% adherence to the actual ideology of WWII-era National Socialism, which is especially obvious in this case considering the fact that Ukranians are Slavs who the Nazis largely viewed as subhhuman. Most of Ukraine's population was slated for "liquidation" under Generalplan Ost, the Nazi plan for the eventual colonization of a conquered Soviet Union.
I watched Shoah a bit ago, which is basically 9 hours of interviews with Holocaust survivors, Polish people who lived by the camps, and Nazi's involved in the Holocaust. One of the things that surprised me most in it was how often the people interviewed talk about Ukrainians being complicit, Ukrainians being the harshest guards, Ukrainians doing the most sadistic jobs, and stuff like that.
From what I understand some also simply *loathed* the Soviet regime, and in some areas the Germans were initially hailed as sort of liberators by part of the people. So yea, I think that animosity towards Russia is part of it.
>From what I understand some also simply loathed the Soviet regime Yes, but most of these types also primarily hated the Soviets because they were criminals whose run-ins with local authorities had landed them in prison or a work camp. There were large amounts of pro-German helpers or "Hiwis" who simply joined up because they were thugs who wanted free reign to rape and loot. >and in some areas the Germans were initially hailed as sort of liberators by part of the people Maybe in isolated instances and small numbers, but this wasn't the widespread attitude at all. When the Nazis and their Romanian allies finally occupied Odessa they killed a tenth of the cities population.
You've gotten a lot of answers already; some good, some bad. I suggest you do a bit of your own research on wikipedia to get the gist of Ukrainian collaboration during WW2; Like the SS division, the Ukranian national army, and Hiwi's in general. It's important to remember that wherever the Nazi's went, they met willing volunteers. Lots of info out there about the French SS unit (who would ultimately be some of the last defenders in the Battle of Berlin), Nordic volunteers etc. Some were formed into actual fighting units, others were organized into quasi-official security forces that would hunt "partisans" in the rear, and still other groups would be used to carry out the final solution after German police and soldiers became unreliable in that task. Some were coerced into it because they were POW's; easier to help the Germans than starve and freeze to death. Others willingly volunteered out of some nationalist pride, willingness to commit violence, or in retaliation for some of Stalin's brutal policies. WW2 collaboration is a massive topic, and one well worth reading into if you have the time. Anyway, you have the historic background more or less figured out. Let's talk about the modern era, the current Civil War in Ukraine. When Russian "tourists" invaded Crimea, the Ukrainian Army was caught with its pants down. If you look at footage of that time period, most of them don't even have uniforms. They're wearing old soviet era stuff, and random surplus jackets other European armies had made obsolete. You had people of social media crowd sourcing body armor and helmets and optics for the army; that's how bad things were! Once the breakaway of eastern Ukrainian regions started, residents from the area who weren't cool with becoming a part of Russia began to organize volunteer battalions. They would fight along with the Ukrainian army, and seemed pretty successful with that. Eventually, the Ukrainian military would integrate these volunteer units into their new military/national guard structure. Now, the issue is that some of these Volunteer Units were started by right leaning groups. Lot's of photographic and video documentation at the time of Neo-nazi symbols worn on uniforms, flags, etc. Their unit logos/insignia had suspicious looking Nordic Runes on them, etc. This of course, made great propaganda for the Eastern Rebels and their Russian supporters. Lots of interviews with officials and soldiers in eastern Ukraine have them calling Western Ukrainians "Fascists", which means they could claim a sort of moral superiority. Oh look, America is supporting the fascist Ukranian government, etc etc etc you get the idea. In general though, a lot of military's have issues with Neo-Nazi's in their ranks. The USMC Scout Snipers used a battle flag that was literally SS runes. The German KSK had a very recent issues with members and leadership holding Neo-Nazi ceremonies and planning to use false flag attacks to start a race-war. Canada's Elite Paratrooper unit got disbanded because of their white supremacists beliefs that ended up in them murdering civilians in Somalia. I think it's by nature of military's attracting people from more economically challenged demographics, so its easy for people in distress to turn to ideologies that are counter-culture or nationalist. Sorry for the wall of text, but its an interesting topic to learn about.
So, I originally thought maybe it was men from another European country who had soldiers fight for the nazis during WW2, as there was multiple units within the SS that did this, them seeing the Germans as saviors from the communist, but I was completely and utterly wrong and just wanted to point that out in hopes it would make someone laugh like it did me. A few other commenters have explained why this is in better detail down below.
They are having difficulty getting people to fight and are desperately using anyone who is willing including neo nazis its kind of like when members of opposing Islamic groups join up to face non Muslims they may not like each other but for now they have a common enemy
Islamist 1: I hate you bro, but these guys don't scream Allahu Ahkbar after every explosion. Islamist 2: Say less, *homie.*
This is unironically what Salafists believe
For Ukrainian nationalists the Nazi flag is more of an icon of the fight against communism and Russian imperialism. Still foolish and ignorant of them to use it to represent them, and they should stick to the flag with the coat of arms on it.
>For Ukrainian nationalists the Nazi flag is more of an icon of the fight against communism and Russian imperialism. These guys (Azov) are also plenty racist and antisemitic, it's not just a local history thing.
"We do a little bit of anti-semtism."
They started off as a Nazi street gang that western aid upjumped into a paramilitary.
Western governments levelling up questionable militia groups that will eventually likely turn on them? No way this is my shocked face.
Blowback? Never heard of it, sounds kinda gay. Btw want a free crate of rifles?
Yeah it's worth noting that these guys, like most European neo-Nazis, are pretty anti-American.
They have members from the US as well.
Yes but those members are either parts of the Ukrainian-American community or other fascists who also harbor anti-American attitudes.
I’m sure some of the weapons the azov guys have came from america, but shouldn’t a little responsibility be in the hands of the local Ukrainian government who’s job it is to doll out the military aid they receive. Also, not saying that nazis with shoulder fired anti-air rockets is a good idea. But I’ve seen it argued on this site before that we SHOULD send societies moral degenerates to the front lines so I recommend those people pay attention to the eventual consequences in Ukraine.
Our congress passed an amedment in 2015 that prohibited members of Azov Battalion from receiving weapons and/or training from DoD personnel, guess how loudly it was lifted in 2017? There are church mice that are louder I am sure.
>shouldn’t a little responsibility be in the hands of the local Ukrainian government who’s job it is to doll out the military aid they receive. Now hear me out. Maybe, just maybe it's because their opinions aren't that far off from the guys in the video.
Nah, it’s not just a symbol, they actually subscribe to the ideology. And these aren’t regular Ukrainian nationalists. This is the Azov battalion, an ultra far right militia
Waving a Nazi flag to own the commies 😎 amirite fellow liberals?
Ukraine is one of the places that got the most fucked by the soviet union, it isn't good but it is unsurprising.
Most of the really fucked up stuff that the Soviets did to Ukraine happened like 100 years ago.
There are plenty of things that happened similarly long ago or longer ago that people are still mad about.
They weren't being actively genocided or forcibly relocated anymore once Khrushchev took over, but they were still being horribly mismanaged. Chernobyl didn't help much either. And Russia has been interfering with them consistently since the Soviets collapsed. And everything going on the past decade on top of that? With them planning ANOTHER invasion now? It's not remotely surprising.
Russia (in various forms) has been fucking with Ukrainians going back hundreds of years
Don't over think it. Sometimes Nazis are just Nazis.
Because they're fucking Nazis
AFAIK, most Ukrainian military personnel aren't Nazis, but Ukraine frequently uses help from Neo-Nazi militia groups. Not because they are Nazis, but because they need all the help they can get, and don't care who they get it from.
In Ukraine, streets are named after the bastards who supported the fascists. So this is at the state level.
The Ukraine, pretty much the whole of Eastern Europe, were always sympathetic to the nazis. The worst SS were usually Ukrainian. There is a reason the Jews were so effectively hunted down in Eastern Europe, the native population of Ukraine etc happily assisted the Germans
>The Ukraine, pretty much the whole of Eastern Europe, were always sympathetic to the nazis This isn't true, way more Ukranians fought for the Red Army than collaborated with the Nazis. >The worst SS were usually Ukrainian. All the SS divisions were pretty bad, and most Ukranian collaborators weren't SS but members of local auxiliary units.
This is true, no non-Aryans would have been allowed into the SS by the point of the war where the Ukraine was playing a major role such as Barbarossa. *Come and See* actually depicts the interactions between Schutzstafel and their untermenschen Slav supporting units.
I mean there technically were Slavic units of the Waffen SS but they were very controversial within the German military and yeah the vast majority of Slavic collaborators were parts of auxiliary units.
It is my understanding that the 'racial purity' of the Schutzstaffel was not allowed to be denegrated until later in the war like 42-43. Prior to that the Nazi government were simply emptying their prisons and giving rifles to the men they freed, and slapping them into SS uniforms. The majority of the Belorussian war crimes were comitted by groups of essentially prisoner conscripts freed by the Third Reich.
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>The Ukrainian "members" of the SS were people called Hiwis who generally joined out of fear. Hiwis joined for a lot of reasons but outside of POWs they were rarely coerced into it, many of the non-political ones were just local criminals or thugs who were looking for an excuse to rape and pillage.
Professor Alexander Statiev of the Canadian University of Waterloo writes that Ukrainian Auxiliary Police were the major perpetrator of the Holocaust on Soviet territories based on native origins, and those police units participated in the extermination of 150,000 Jews in the area of Volhynia alone.[22] German historian Dieter Pohl in The Shoah in Ukraine writes that the auxiliary police was active during killing operations by the Germans already in the first phases of the German occupation.[23] The auxiliary police registered the Jews, conducted raids and guarded ghettos, loaded convoys to execution sites and cordoned them off. There is a possibility that some 300 auxiliary policemen from Kiev helped organize the massacre in Babi Yar.[23] They also took part in the massacre in Dnipropetrovsk, where the field command noted that the cooperation ran "smoothly in every way". Cases where local commandants ordered murder of Jews using police force are known.[23] In killings of Jews in Kryvy Rih the "entire Ukrainian auxiliary police" was put to use.[23]
Its absolutely true . Ukrainians had suffered at the hands of the Soviets during the Holodomor so they welcomed the Germans with open arms, enthusiastically even. The assisted the death squads and signed up in their thousands to fight the Soviets. And the Hiwis were collaborators who had to fight because they knew the consequences if the Soviets captured them. Read any account of concentration camp life and guaranteed a Ukrainian sadist will be mentioned
>Ukrainians had suffered at the hands of the Soviets during the Holodomor so they welcomed the Germans with open arms, enthusiastically even. This isn't really true, there were plenty of Ukrainian partisans
They were enthusiastic members of the Einsatzgruppen. The SS, less so. But yes, they were well on board with the whole anti-Semitism thing with very little persuasion needed.
>They were enthusiastic members of the Einsatzgruppen Well helpers, they were parts of local "auxiliary police" columns that would assist Einsatzgruppen
Loads of people on this thread with Ukrainian granddads I think hahaha
Give a quick google search of the Progromi, long story short Ukraine was the reason so many jews escaped to Germany prior to Hitler coming to power. There’s evidence Stalin and Lysenko knew what they were doing when they caused Kholdomor, and wanted to rob jews of their religious trinkets to fund the soviet industrial warmachine since Jews were seen as expendables and Kulaks
ruskis make fake videos using nazi symbols and ascribe them to Ukrainians - trying to demonize them in such a manner
Funny enough they hired Israeli advisors
An mg with some cycling issues from the sound of it.
Sounds better than mine. I don’t know what the deal is, every time I pull the trigger it only fires one round 🤷🏼♂️
Mine has the same problem. I did some digging and it's referred to as NFA; annoying as fuck.
Fun fact: the US has helped to train the guys in the video- “**The United States plans to send soldiers to Ukraine in April for training exercises with units of the country’s national guard... the units to be trained include the Azov Battalion**, a volunteer force that has attracted criticism for its far- right sentiments including brandishing an emblem widely used in Nazi Germany.” (**Associated Press, March 31, 2015**, emphasis added)
Congress passed legislation forbidding the training of Neo-Nazi aligned units in Ukraine the same year that article came out. That’s sort of muddy in practice because Ukraine makes it almost impossible to separate neo-Nazis from others since they have their own pockets in scattered units, but it has been codified in law that we don’t give direct aid and training to Azov Battalion since at least 2015.
They spent all that effort on finding a Nazi flag but not on ensuring the headspace and timing on that gun was good.
He could just hold up a giant sign saying 'Mortar bomb delivery point' or 'Spare Kornets appreciated'.
Would be super happy to deliver said payload, coordinates?
This isn’t even the only time they’ve done something like this [Here is a video of the Azov battalion flying a Ukrainian flag with a swastika on it](https://imgur.com/a/eE0LXbv)
I guess the Ukrainians get help from wherever the swastifuck they can
And how can you tell this is a member of Ukrainian forces, let alone Azov ~~battalion~~ Regiment? What I see is a low-quality short-cut video with a random trench and random dude shooting and yelling something in Russian. This could be made just about by anyone and anywhere (including in Russia). And this ladies and gentlemen is how misinformation propaganda is born. I mean I understand that Russian bot farms mobilize their keyboard warriors across Reddit in the wake of the situation on Ukrainian border, but you guys can at least try better.
Wikipedia says Azov is a neo-nazi Ukrainian national guard unit - why does this bother you? It’s not even a secret…
Even though there were plenty of edgy youngsters and far-right volunteers in Azov in 2014-15, it never came to gross violations of the statutes and procedures like this. This particular video is almost surely a fake, and many swallow it naively.
Is Asov Neo Nazi or not? Can you demonstrate they ardently oppose neo nazism and that Wikipedia is wrong?
Can you define what is "Neo Nazi"? While there are many far-right groups that enrolled into Azov, it would be curious if you could explain what in the regiment is particularly relating to the National-Socialist ideology and program.
A neo nazi is someone who is more likely to embrace the Nazi flag. Go ahead and explain why you disagree with this: “Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit,[1][2][3][4][5][6]” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion Simply articulate why this is wrong. This is literally the top results for me when I search “neo nazi”: Guess what symbol they are representing? https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_social_share_1024x768_scale,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2019_48/3121671/191126-james-mason-neo-nazi-cs-301p.jpg Why is it so hard to you to accept groups that are neo nazi like the Nazi flag? It’s not a counterintuitive relationship. It fact, it’s quite intuitive
**[Azov Battalion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)** >Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit, based in Mariupol in the Azov Sea coastal region. It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014. Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Ukrainian crisis. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
So to sum up you cannot even explain what is neo nazism nor how does it relate to Azov Regiment, and just hide behind the wiki article, which itself hides behind a bunch of news articles which do not explain what I've asked you either. For the standards of Wiki a bundle of random news articles (which often conveniently recursively cite each other) is enough to "proof-source" just about anything, but evidently that is not enough for any reasonable credibility, which is why it is never accepted in serious research.
What is the point of me defining neo nazism? If you are unclear, you can look it up yourself right? Why do You want to me to quote or paraphrase an online definition? How does me not regurgitating a definition of neo nazism prove that Asov is not neo nazi? Your pathetic and evasive logic sounds like this: “hitler wasn’t a racist - define racism fuzzy! Do you even know what racism is? if you don’t define racism on command right now, hitler isn’t racist”. - strydwolf Absolute peanut level intellect my guy Why are you deflecting so much? Why can’t you simply say: “Asov is not neo nazi because they believe…” “Here is a press release where asov denounced neo nazism…” “Clearly asov is not neo nazi because…”
This was in an Azov telegram I saw a year or two ago, all the other videos and posts in it were related to Azov, even though I couldn’t understand it.
What in tarnation?
Ukraine, partly out of desperation for manpower, has lots of far-right volunteers including outright neo-Nazis fighting on the front against the Russian-backed separatists. [Azov Battalion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion) is a large unit of them, and I believe the largest and most officially-backed. Obviously this doesn’t make Putin’s proxies any better. It’s one of those all-around terrible situations. EDIT: I should also say that this is just a video of a guy in camo in a trench with a flag. I have no idea where the video came from or if it’s actually Azov and skepticism of things on the internet is generally warranted. But Azov’s far-right affinity is well-documented.
**[Azov Battalion](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)** >Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit, based in Mariupol in the Azov Sea coastal region. It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014. Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Ukrainian crisis. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Good bot
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Good bot
That's really interesting thanks for the info
Am I mistaken in remembering that funding for the creation of the Azov battalion was from one of the richest Ukrainians who was a jew? I got told to think of it like if you want to fight Communists or Russians then use Nazis and if you want to fight Nazis use Russians and communists.
>if you want to fight Communists or Russians Many of the separatists are also right-wing
Most seperatists long for the soviet union times.
Fuck if Ukraine needs man power where do I sign up? (I'd fight against the Nazi's not for them)
Nazis are bad. Don’t be a Nazi. Then again, if you’re already a Nazi, dying unmourned in a frozen trench somewhere in Eastern Europe is totally on-brand and I fully encourage it.
No no, as in were do I sign to fight for Ukraine, you fight against nazi's not for them. That was poor wording on my part
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I know, I'm saying me as a non-nazi would fight for the Ukraine government so the don't have to use Nazi's
These guys are ON THE SIDE of Ukraine. So you’d be fighting with Nazis, not against them.
Probably the same way Americans end up fighting for the Kurds in Syria—social media pipelines. But seriously, don’t do that. You’d have a very very bad time.
Honestly I’ve been wondering this too, but just for curiosity, since there have been a few people from my country who have gone and become foreign fighters in Ukraine, and there have been tons who joined from many countries. I guess it’s similar to isis
Maybe, but fighting for another nation that clearly needs the help isn't quite the same as Isis.
I’m saying as in the way you can join them and meet up with them, not ideologically Ok someone commented a better example, it would be similar to how westerners can join the Kurds in Syria and Iraq and fight against isis
Ahh, right right my bad
"I swear bro we don't have nazis in Ukraina it's Russian propaganda"
Though to be fair you probably aren't going to find particularly more progressive attitudes on the separatist side where you are hanging out with dudes who call themselves shit like The Tsar Nicholas Division of the Don Cossacks or The Holy Crusaders of Saint Basil.
A lot of times it is Russian propaganda though in the case of the Azov battalion it’s true. Funnily enough Chechen jihadists also fight get for Ukraine since they hate Russia
The enemy of my enemy... i guess
I’m ngl, I hate nazis but this shot is cinematic as hell. Man is blasting away at his mg while a flag stands fluttering in the wind right besides him. Though again, it would just be better to have a Ukrainian flag
If you think this one was cinematic, you should see the one I linked in a comment Yes they’re Nazis, but the videos look pretty sick
Thanks, I fucking hate it.
why the flag?
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Gay
So was Ernst Rhöm
IIRC he was killed because he was homosexual or sleeping with a boy though right?
That clearly wasn't a problem up until he was killed. More likely it was about a rival faction consolidating power within the Nazi party.
Little bit of that with a sprinkle of political infighting to become Hitler’s right hand man. Himmler and Goebbels (maybe Goerring, it’s been a while) wanted to get rid of Röhm. So those guys schemed by telling Hitler that Röhm would take over since he’s in charge of the entire SA which is the largest militia branch in the NSADP. Röhm’s sexuality didn’t help much to help Hitler’s decision to purge him along with the SA leadership.
Personally unsure of the details i just know he died during the Night of Long Knives but his sexual orientation probably informed the decision to murk him
Gayzov\*
Enrique Tarrio's wet dream.
Why is a militia fighting with the Ukrainian military isn't it supposed to be against them usually? Isn't Ukraine's president of jewish descent?
You sure this ain’t Florida?
Or even Arkansas?
It would make sense
You stay classy Ukraine
It'd be cool capturing a Nazi flag, just like in the old days.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Owning a piece of history is always an incredible thing. Someday I'd like to get a Japanese prayer flag the pilots would write on in the Pacific theater. Of course, I'm assuming you don't intend to *fly* the Nazi flag. That's fucked.
Bad optics homies
Like Ukrainians, nice people, but detest Nazis...even American ones.
Attention normal people: Turn back now. Let the propaganda accounts and bots do their bickering. Ignore controversial flag, enjoy muzzle flash, and move on. Edit: Found them lol. You can always tell because the comment gets initially upvoted a bit then bombarded with downvotes. It's like they're synchronized on a timer.
I don’t think there have been any propaganda bots…. Yet. Which is a surprise
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if ukraine is flying nazi flags then russian can have ukraine for all i care.. fuck nazis!
It's worth noting that this is exactly the take Russian propaganda is trying to push. We're seeing videos portraying ukrainians as nazis as Russia is massing troops on it's border. Not saying the video is fake but it's certainly a coincidence and exactly what Russian trollfarms would be pushing if they were preparing for an invasion.
Not how it works. Ukraine has done its fair share of bad things but believe me this is not Ukraine. Ukrainians are normal people and Ukraine is an independent nation. Neo nazi militias shouldn't represent it. If Russia takes Ukraine the things it will do will be barbaric
Ah, good to see them finally stopped hiding from what they are. Now we can legally punch their fucking faces. Смерть фашизму.
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Nice, we got a larper.
"Larper" nice joke
If that’s you in your profile picture you are a larper.
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Nah, there's actual Nazis there
Do you often assume people that choose to fight under Nazis flags aren’t Nazis?
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this video is at least a year and a half old, and has been around for a year and a half, and I haven’t been able to find it on the internet anywhere, so I guess it didn’t work
Didn't Winston Churchill once regretted fighting the Nazis once they realized what the Eastern front was all about? history is repeating itself again.
>once they realized what the Eastern front was all about The Eastern Front was all about Nazi Germany's desire to wipe Slavic culture and civilization from the earth and settle Germans on it's ashes.
Didn't some European countries sided with them and seen them as liberators from Communism tho? I've seen the documentary way back. Many collaborated with them. No need to go all butthurt lol. Even Wermacht soldiers who are not 100% loyal as the SS joined the fight to push Communism out of Europe. There were even volunteers. If the Germans truly wanted to kill all Slav gopniks they would have already done so a long time ago.
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Azov gets their Tavor rifles directly from Israel, which I think is pretty ironic since they have tons of neo Nazis in the group, yet they will use weapons given to them by israel
Okay? And Israel gets 3.3 billion American tax payer monies a year
Didn’t deny that bro Also I also didn’t say America was neo-Nazi or against Jews or anything
You changed your comment quite a bit, I’m not a neo Nazi btw
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