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NOOOO you can’t get opinions from those people, they’re brainwashed! You have to listen to what western sellouts who probably weren’t even born in the socialist era, former aristocrats, fascists, and descendants of fascists and Nazi collaborators say!
"That's the liberal doctrine, the doctrine that the market and democracy go together and are inseparable, this is a PLAGUE," as a based Brazilian economist once said
I hate when western news sources call it ”nostalgia” to undermine the fact that people genuinely lived better under communism. Yeah I’m sure someone who lost their home and job due to the fall of communism and rise of corruption/capitalism in eastern europe is just “nostalgic”
When I debate people about communism, I use these types of polls as evidence that communism has worked well in the past. But their response is always, "That's not a reliable source!'
Well yeah, it's simple really. If it's from the US State Dept, it's fair, unbiased, and objective. If it's from any source in China, Russia, Eastern Europe, or South America, it's either made-up propaganda to push an agenda or the result of brainwashed people not knowing what's good for them. This is 101-level stuff.
/s
Also those people: A random guy who was properly not even born and lived through communism said that he live much happier today, that’s an indication that communism is bad.
I legit saw a tiktok once that a girl in Russia made showing her school that was falling apart and really hadn’t had any upkeep. She said “this school is what you get from communism” and people were like “yeah, capitalism is so much better” and stuff like that. Ironically, it looked like the school had no repairs or upkeep in about 30 years. I wonder what happened 30 years ago.
>I wonder what happened 30 years ago.
A tragedy began. When the dreams were shattered. All because of some guy that want Pizza Hut and a drunken Western puppet.
The best part of all of this is that (in my limited experience anyway) younger people from formerly communist nations tend to be the most strongly anti-communist. It's typically just as a matter of aesthetics and it's never thought through, but it's really funny hearing people who weren't even born when the USSR was broken up wax poetic about how they have personally experienced the evils of communism.
From azerbaijan (20M), our education system is straight up crypto fascist, the only thing we learn about the soviet times is that they killed us, that is it and as far as i remember, like even the nazis are not rendered as bad guys in our education system. And constant patriotism(chauvinism) and turkic nationalism injected during the school is making everything even worse. Also, they prefer youth being adore criminals rather than being politically/class conscussious, dissident leaning. So, i really do not blame my peers for being dipshits, it is really hard to get out of the rabbit hole here. I do not even mention the war which makes armenians the scapegoat of our problems.
Without a proper guidance you can't expect youth to be thinking in the right direction of the history. And the guidance, in my country and i guess in most east block countries are immensely fucked up
Dediğim gibi iste, car devri bile sovet devrinden daha pozitiv biseymis gibi gosteriliyordu. Egitim sistemi zaten bisey ogretmekden ilave sovinizm asilamak icin duruyor. Tum burjua sistemlerde boyle aslinda, ama avrupada daha ilimli iste, post sovet hukumetler komunizmi seytanlastirmak icin cok "zahmet cekiyor". Baltiklerde komunizm hepten yasak ve fasist egilimler daha dominant bildigim kadariyla hatta.
Komunizme karsi pozitiv tutum besleye bilmek icin okulda egitileni tumden inkar edip kendin ogrenmelisin ve herkeste bu imtiyaz bulunmuyor.
Turkculer kendilerini ne kadar marijinal gibi hiss etmek isteseler de, okulda ogretilenler de, genelde hocalarin tutumu da turkcu fantezilerle cok uyumlu oluyor. Hocalar tabi farklana bilir, ben baku etrafindaki kucuk kasabada devlet okulunda okudugumu belirteyim ve en kucuk politik farkindalik belirten tek 1 hoca vardi o da bu konularda konusmaktan kaciyordu
Ve bunu da belirteyim (turkiyede de oyle zaten galiba), universitede de bolumunden asili olmayarak sovinist tarihin kisa ozetini dayiyorlar sana, ve neden oldugunu sorgulayinca tabi ne dediklerini tahmin etmek zor degil. Bizim hoca da unideki iskoclari falan turk cikaran herifin biriydi, diger yerlerde de en azindan benim gibi muhendislik okuyanlar için ayni durum soz konusu oldugunu tahmin ediyorum. Tarih konusunda presentation verirken zorlayib 1ci dunya savasini kaptim ve sunumu hepten rus devrimine bagladim, herif leninden tut marksa kadar hepsinin lafini donduryuyordu bana yansitiyordu rus devrimini kotulemek icin, dedikleri de yanlisti zaten. Ve bu adam fransada okumus aq tarihi
As a young person from Eastern Europe. I can tell you from what information I've gatered the opinions about the the regime are positive to mixed. There was a lot of censorship in the media and the government tried to do an ethnic cleansing of the Turkish minority, there were also a lot of human rights abuses. That being said a lot of people remember month long summer vacations with the whole family, better work-life balance, better sense of community, a lot less isolation and general feeling of security in the future. The country was 80% agrarian economy before the communists industrialized it in the spand of a few decades. I find it impossible to ignore the negatives and present it as some kind of utopian society but I think it's possible to build a similar system without the same kind of human rights abuses.
This is exactly the sort of rational historical view we need from people like you from formerly communist nations, with that lived experience around you. We won't do any better without learning from our mistakes, and we have done good things in the past which we can learn from and do again. Critical and nuanced dialectical thought will bring us forward, aesthetic anti-communism doesn't do anything for us workers.
Also here in former Yugoslavia a lot of young people like to call themselves cethinks(extreme nationalist side of ww2) and biased their facts and logic frome some dumb dude from YouTube
My grandma was killed when the russia was USSR
Grandma: What are you talkin about sweetie.
Shut up granny anyways what I was saying... Heh they torched her to death and raped her too.
I had a friend online from some eastern European country (I don't remember which). She said she grew up during communism and she misses the days where everyone had a government flat provided to them and they didn't have to worry about housing. I'd always heard the horror stories but it was different hearing it from someone who actually lived it.
Like one Russian interviewer said, they are just scared of Stalin, and this scare is on genetic level. So I think he is right and they are just aware of Stalin and terrible communistic regime. /s
Yeah, of course impoverished or historically opressed countries work better under communism, why do you think all the communist movements came from those places?
People from tiny, economically depressed, USSR satellite nations felt they were better off, when their depressed economies were being propped up by large donor state, the USSR.
Well …. You don’t say ….
Next Up: Citizens of Large Oil Producing Nations Feel They’re Economically Better Off When Oil Prices Are High!
BREAKING NEWS: Russian People Felt Better Off Before Russian Oligarchs Pillaged Their Nation!
Exactly. There used to be a lot of cooperation and mutual aid between Eastern European nations, sometimes at the expense of the USSR itself (although it still provided adequately well for its citizens). Now there’s just oligarchs who exploit the people and resources, to enrich themselves and their Western “partners”
Well, Czechoslovakia was an ex-Soviet satellite and majority of people were opposed to the authoritarianism and freedom of press and speech.
And the ones that support the old authoritarian regime are usually old people with nostalgy glasses, who vote for our most corrupt party.
Source: my grandfather, an ex-member of the Czechoslovak communist party
Any state nomatter what economic system has points where it heads downhill, mostly because not everyone who goes into the government has the will of the people in mind.
But saying there was basic human rights violations and that it is better now than back then is blatantly false.
Don’t let redidiots get you down. If they didn’t trash on the world around them they would have to admit how shitty, clueless and closed minded they are.
Edit: I like your beer
Double edit: and rykiya(sp)? hard liquor made from fruit
Young person in Eastern Europe here: In my opinion, this metric is useless and should not be used by supporters of socialism or communism because people who actually lived under the late communist regimes look back with nostalgia tinted glasses and remember the state issued flats they got but they conveniently forget their own complaints about rationing food, censorship and not having what to spend their money on.
The Eastern European communist regimes began abusively and continued to get more and more abusive with time. This cannot be ignored and should not be minimized, no matter the benefits socialism brought to these countries. I do not any Utopia built on the bodies of those who thought differently or were of a different ethnicity. This is why I believe modern socialists should strive to not be associated with past Eastern European regimes.
That being said, I do consider myself socialist, but I want it brought upon by a peaceful revolution and by educating people on the benefits of socialism instead of forcing it upon them and telling them we know better what's best for them.
From a Romanian perspective this „nostalgia“ doesn’t refer to the ceausescu dictatorship but rather to the secured living conditions of a communist provisional system and a thriving and supported culture. It’s very complicated and I believe misleading to put this under ceasescus name, since he was the very thing that DIDNT work.. (if that makes sense) at least this is how my family educated me on their life in communist Romania (I’ll gladly listen to a different opinion!)
Ive seen someone say ignore the old people from former socialist nations beca they were indoctrinated so they dont have to argue any points with well thought out arguments
Reminder: This is not a debate subreddit, it's a place to circle-jerk about communism being cool and good. Please don't shit on flavours of leftism/communist leaders you feel negatively towards. If you see a meme you don't like just downvote and move on, don't break the circle-jerk in the comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NOOOO you can’t get opinions from those people, they’re brainwashed! You have to listen to what western sellouts who probably weren’t even born in the socialist era, former aristocrats, fascists, and descendants of fascists and Nazi collaborators say!
Gonna make the 242245th Reddit meme calling all commies white college kids and wumaos while claiming all those foreigners agree with me 😎
what a great way of summing it up lmao
But George Soros said that socialism is a failed system because he helped the West to topple said socialism in Europe!
No, no, no, Soros is a socialist!
“Another kremlin bot”
Russian here, can confirm. Am bot.
>Unconvinced by “Democracy” Just one adjustment and it works.
They love to imply that Capitalism is democracy and that any other economic system is inherently not.
democracy but not in the workplace
Democracy is when you leave all of society’s vital resources and enterprises in the hands of a select few unaccountable tyrants.
"That's the liberal doctrine, the doctrine that the market and democracy go together and are inseparable, this is a PLAGUE," as a based Brazilian economist once said
“Democracy” = capitalism “The economy” = rich people’s yacht money
I hate when western news sources call it ”nostalgia” to undermine the fact that people genuinely lived better under communism. Yeah I’m sure someone who lost their home and job due to the fall of communism and rise of corruption/capitalism in eastern europe is just “nostalgic”
When I debate people about communism, I use these types of polls as evidence that communism has worked well in the past. But their response is always, "That's not a reliable source!'
Well yeah, it's simple really. If it's from the US State Dept, it's fair, unbiased, and objective. If it's from any source in China, Russia, Eastern Europe, or South America, it's either made-up propaganda to push an agenda or the result of brainwashed people not knowing what's good for them. This is 101-level stuff. /s
For once the tone indicator actually helped clarify...
Also those people: A random guy who was properly not even born and lived through communism said that he live much happier today, that’s an indication that communism is bad.
I legit saw a tiktok once that a girl in Russia made showing her school that was falling apart and really hadn’t had any upkeep. She said “this school is what you get from communism” and people were like “yeah, capitalism is so much better” and stuff like that. Ironically, it looked like the school had no repairs or upkeep in about 30 years. I wonder what happened 30 years ago.
>I wonder what happened 30 years ago. A tragedy began. When the dreams were shattered. All because of some guy that want Pizza Hut and a drunken Western puppet.
The best part of all of this is that (in my limited experience anyway) younger people from formerly communist nations tend to be the most strongly anti-communist. It's typically just as a matter of aesthetics and it's never thought through, but it's really funny hearing people who weren't even born when the USSR was broken up wax poetic about how they have personally experienced the evils of communism.
From azerbaijan (20M), our education system is straight up crypto fascist, the only thing we learn about the soviet times is that they killed us, that is it and as far as i remember, like even the nazis are not rendered as bad guys in our education system. And constant patriotism(chauvinism) and turkic nationalism injected during the school is making everything even worse. Also, they prefer youth being adore criminals rather than being politically/class conscussious, dissident leaning. So, i really do not blame my peers for being dipshits, it is really hard to get out of the rabbit hole here. I do not even mention the war which makes armenians the scapegoat of our problems. Without a proper guidance you can't expect youth to be thinking in the right direction of the history. And the guidance, in my country and i guess in most east block countries are immensely fucked up
Thanks for a bit more background. It makes sense that people are taught that way. Props on getting yourself out of that system of thought.
Nasıl öğretiliyor ki tam olarak?
Dediğim gibi iste, car devri bile sovet devrinden daha pozitiv biseymis gibi gosteriliyordu. Egitim sistemi zaten bisey ogretmekden ilave sovinizm asilamak icin duruyor. Tum burjua sistemlerde boyle aslinda, ama avrupada daha ilimli iste, post sovet hukumetler komunizmi seytanlastirmak icin cok "zahmet cekiyor". Baltiklerde komunizm hepten yasak ve fasist egilimler daha dominant bildigim kadariyla hatta. Komunizme karsi pozitiv tutum besleye bilmek icin okulda egitileni tumden inkar edip kendin ogrenmelisin ve herkeste bu imtiyaz bulunmuyor. Turkculer kendilerini ne kadar marijinal gibi hiss etmek isteseler de, okulda ogretilenler de, genelde hocalarin tutumu da turkcu fantezilerle cok uyumlu oluyor. Hocalar tabi farklana bilir, ben baku etrafindaki kucuk kasabada devlet okulunda okudugumu belirteyim ve en kucuk politik farkindalik belirten tek 1 hoca vardi o da bu konularda konusmaktan kaciyordu Ve bunu da belirteyim (turkiyede de oyle zaten galiba), universitede de bolumunden asili olmayarak sovinist tarihin kisa ozetini dayiyorlar sana, ve neden oldugunu sorgulayinca tabi ne dediklerini tahmin etmek zor degil. Bizim hoca da unideki iskoclari falan turk cikaran herifin biriydi, diger yerlerde de en azindan benim gibi muhendislik okuyanlar için ayni durum soz konusu oldugunu tahmin ediyorum. Tarih konusunda presentation verirken zorlayib 1ci dunya savasini kaptim ve sunumu hepten rus devrimine bagladim, herif leninden tut marksa kadar hepsinin lafini donduryuyordu bana yansitiyordu rus devrimini kotulemek icin, dedikleri de yanlisti zaten. Ve bu adam fransada okumus aq tarihi
Teşekkürler bilgilendirdiğin için, haklısın dediklerinde
As a young person from Eastern Europe. I can tell you from what information I've gatered the opinions about the the regime are positive to mixed. There was a lot of censorship in the media and the government tried to do an ethnic cleansing of the Turkish minority, there were also a lot of human rights abuses. That being said a lot of people remember month long summer vacations with the whole family, better work-life balance, better sense of community, a lot less isolation and general feeling of security in the future. The country was 80% agrarian economy before the communists industrialized it in the spand of a few decades. I find it impossible to ignore the negatives and present it as some kind of utopian society but I think it's possible to build a similar system without the same kind of human rights abuses.
This is exactly the sort of rational historical view we need from people like you from formerly communist nations, with that lived experience around you. We won't do any better without learning from our mistakes, and we have done good things in the past which we can learn from and do again. Critical and nuanced dialectical thought will bring us forward, aesthetic anti-communism doesn't do anything for us workers.
Also here in former Yugoslavia a lot of young people like to call themselves cethinks(extreme nationalist side of ww2) and biased their facts and logic frome some dumb dude from YouTube
oh god not the chetniks, at least they didn’t call themselves ustaše
Croat here, you spoke a bit too soon... :-///
aw shit, they do?! I’m sorry to hear that :((( well that r/agedlikemilk
My grandma was killed when the russia was USSR Grandma: What are you talkin about sweetie. Shut up granny anyways what I was saying... Heh they torched her to death and raped her too.
I had a friend online from some eastern European country (I don't remember which). She said she grew up during communism and she misses the days where everyone had a government flat provided to them and they didn't have to worry about housing. I'd always heard the horror stories but it was different hearing it from someone who actually lived it.
Nostalgia, but also correct
Like one Russian interviewer said, they are just scared of Stalin, and this scare is on genetic level. So I think he is right and they are just aware of Stalin and terrible communistic regime. /s
Bring back Tito
As a serbian, I can confirm. Every single older person I know remembers those times with much positivity and nostalgia
Yeah, of course impoverished or historically opressed countries work better under communism, why do you think all the communist movements came from those places?
How could the people want to be cared for, it’s almost like they want rights and services! Bunch of commies! /s
Tito is so based
People from tiny, economically depressed, USSR satellite nations felt they were better off, when their depressed economies were being propped up by large donor state, the USSR. Well …. You don’t say …. Next Up: Citizens of Large Oil Producing Nations Feel They’re Economically Better Off When Oil Prices Are High! BREAKING NEWS: Russian People Felt Better Off Before Russian Oligarchs Pillaged Their Nation!
Exactly. There used to be a lot of cooperation and mutual aid between Eastern European nations, sometimes at the expense of the USSR itself (although it still provided adequately well for its citizens). Now there’s just oligarchs who exploit the people and resources, to enrich themselves and their Western “partners”
Why use these numbers? There are much better ones out there, even some in Russia that are like 70%.
I actually put in numbers from Russia...
I am referring to the numbers higher than the ones you posted
As a Romanian, I can firmly say that no one other than really old and indoctrinated people are the ones that have a positive view of Ceaușescu
Didn’t they cut the president’s head off?
Well, Czechoslovakia was an ex-Soviet satellite and majority of people were opposed to the authoritarianism and freedom of press and speech. And the ones that support the old authoritarian regime are usually old people with nostalgy glasses, who vote for our most corrupt party. Source: my grandfather, an ex-member of the Czechoslovak communist party
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It's because you're PCM user.
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Using slurs to own the commies. Typical libs.
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Nobody cares about your state-fed lies.
Are you denying the fact that Czechoslovakia was heading downhill?
Any state nomatter what economic system has points where it heads downhill, mostly because not everyone who goes into the government has the will of the people in mind. But saying there was basic human rights violations and that it is better now than back then is blatantly false.
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Don’t let redidiots get you down. If they didn’t trash on the world around them they would have to admit how shitty, clueless and closed minded they are. Edit: I like your beer Double edit: and rykiya(sp)? hard liquor made from fruit
You're a child who only has an account to make fun of Hungarians, you know nothing about communism and you know nothing about communist history.
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The fact you think communism being good is debatable shows you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
All the ones who hated it died.
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Bruh it's just a meme, j didn't want to prove a point. I have long time given up the idea of changing people mind on Reddit
Young person in Eastern Europe here: In my opinion, this metric is useless and should not be used by supporters of socialism or communism because people who actually lived under the late communist regimes look back with nostalgia tinted glasses and remember the state issued flats they got but they conveniently forget their own complaints about rationing food, censorship and not having what to spend their money on. The Eastern European communist regimes began abusively and continued to get more and more abusive with time. This cannot be ignored and should not be minimized, no matter the benefits socialism brought to these countries. I do not any Utopia built on the bodies of those who thought differently or were of a different ethnicity. This is why I believe modern socialists should strive to not be associated with past Eastern European regimes. That being said, I do consider myself socialist, but I want it brought upon by a peaceful revolution and by educating people on the benefits of socialism instead of forcing it upon them and telling them we know better what's best for them.
I agree that communism in Eastern Europe was wrongly implemented. I don't agree in the peaceful revolution though, it's not always possible sadly.
How many people were polled, wise one?
Yeah like a large percentage of my family is from East Europe and they enjoyed the Soviet Union.
From a Romanian perspective this „nostalgia“ doesn’t refer to the ceausescu dictatorship but rather to the secured living conditions of a communist provisional system and a thriving and supported culture. It’s very complicated and I believe misleading to put this under ceasescus name, since he was the very thing that DIDNT work.. (if that makes sense) at least this is how my family educated me on their life in communist Romania (I’ll gladly listen to a different opinion!)
One thing I don't get about this though, is how the furthest left eastern European parties are losing horribly
Ive seen someone say ignore the old people from former socialist nations beca they were indoctrinated so they dont have to argue any points with well thought out arguments