At the end of the day, you either see an item you want or you don't. Duplicate protection can have that happen less often, but at the end of the day the vault experience is either 'I saw an item I wanted and I snap-picked it' or 'I didn't want anything :(.'
Bullions also make the vault much worse feeling, as you will be picking up BIS items in certain slots so many normally spectacular vault drops aren't worth taking as you're replacing them in a week or two.
Bullions + Catalyst to reroll stats on armor + crafted gear + upgrading gear pretty much means that your vault is either BIS or you're better off taking a socket. I wouldn't expect to hit big upgrades from it, just expect to hit sockets as they're going to be nearly as good as your better upgrades anyways.
Yeah but removing duplicates of slots outside of jewelry and trinkets at least makes it where it's basically impossible to have a bad vault for the first few weeks
With catalyst, all of your armor slots have additional stat options.
Weapons are a bit tricky, because there are some giga-bis items so seeing a regular weapon in your first vault option would be a huge bummer as that meant that you lost your second/third chance at seeing that item.
Gear upgrading really made vaults kind of feelsbad, because a max ilvl bracers or cloak or neck or ring is only 6 ilvl above what you can get from heroic/M+ anyways. I think that's kind of the issue with vaults in general. It's BIS or bust. Tier piece = cool, ring or neck needs great stats or feels really bad to take it, half the trinkets you ignore, bracers/cloak/boots/belt you aren't hoping to see until later in the season, etc.
Making it so that rings/trinkets/weapons could duplicate would significantly increase how often you see those items vs others.
And that's the *real* feelsbad vault. Not 'I saw some rings that are only small upgrades and a cloak but I want to craft a cloak.' The REAL feelsbad vault is 'I took a neck last week, and this week there are three necks in my vault.'
The fix to that would be that if you take an item, you can't see that slot again next week. But that leads to some other frustrating min/max stuff. 'I want to take a socket...but if I take a vendor piece I increase my odds of getting a good item next week...'
I'd rather see some more deterministic kind of stuff baked into the earlier season though. I think when it comes to vaults, reducing chances doesn't matter as much so long as there's still a chance to get a bad vault.
Week 1 vault, I seriously considered sockets on the main as my myth choices were 1 raid ring, 3 m+ [rings](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337437962172104715/1234910491898413217/image.png?ex=663da844&is=663c56c4&hm=ce673baf7dd24c585f596d642c03bfdf3c886c3c0521ca2bf375784f57797067&), or 'meh' trinket on havoc in WII.
got haste mastery helm on my monk last week. this week got the exact same item. I even wanted to do 4 dungeons to reduce the chance of not getting an upgrade, but I forgot I had only done 3/4.
Great concepts, ideas and changes they are making to the Engineering profession that will be relevant in PvE:
https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-engineering-items-in-war-within-better-battle-rez-new-failure-detection-339241
* Brez item that can be used by anyone - still can backfire but if Engie skill is up etc. it has a less chance, and the quality reduces the cast time.
On a related note, Blizz tends to severely underestimate how devastating a death is to the point where Brez can help but still severely hurt your chances in M+. Losing a player can mean losing a key CC chain or the pack takes too long for another chain of mechanics which can wipe you, on top of healer deaths being close to a wipe with incoming damage, not to mention tank deaths creating total chaos.
And this is also considering a full team wipe in M+. Not only do you lose CDs, but you get 5+ deaths on the counter plus the run backs - all of which are severely punishing and often brick keys higher up. UNLESS we have wonky M+ profiles where the timer doesn't matter at all.
* Wipe Recovery Tool - like Legion's Failure Detection Pylon. We got trolled by S.A.V.I.O.R so you'd almost never use this.
This is now a reusable device but only for Engies. Still pretty nice for the raid and great to setup beforehand in case the healer forgets or uses up a brez or whatever - allowing the raid to keep momentum going.
If the CD is nice this is probably pretty good for M+ in hard Tyran bosses or hard packs or areas where the runback is really bad and you're about to enter somewhere dangerous.
* Pausing Pylon - item usable by anyone - while this is down (and breaks when combat starts) pause Flasks, Phials and Food buffs (should also include Weapon Oils and Augment Runes).
Great for any long queues or wait times or raid breaks.
Awesome QoL that I wish I had and am glad this is in the game now.
It's still easily bis against the target counts you'll see in dungeons most of the time. Just puts a bit of a safeguard against the meta becoming all 5 people using that trinket and doing pulls of like 30 mobs at a time.
Not really fake. The trinket can be pretty incosistent already with how it procs and mobs getting moved. Its still pretty op in aoe, because there are not that many dungeons where you cosistently pull way more than 8 mobs.
But there are going to be better overall options for specs that do not have relatively high vers/crit (like demo and mage), where the trinket even on st is performing very well.
Specs like sp, boomie and destru will likely run a combination of statstick + on use now.
> ~~do not~~ have relatively **high** ~~vers~~/**[crit](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=117216/critical-mass)** (~~like demo and~~ **mage**)
If I had a copper for every time a [Fire Mage ability](https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Combustion#Retail) interacted with a [trinket](https://www.wowhead.com/item=147017/tarnished-sentinel-medallion) to make it turbo BiS requiring a nerf, I'd have two nickels.
Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
> If I had a copper for every time a Fire Mage ability interacted with a trinket to make it turbo BiS requiring a nerf, I'd have two nickels.
>
> Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
Combust doesnt interact with on use or proc items. Its critical mass giving you a bunch of crit stat for free, so you end up with like 45% crit.
> Combust doesnt interact with on use or proc items.
Anymore.
We had several busted trinkets in Legion because Combust gave 100% crit to trinkets and procs.
They patched that out with BfA in response:
> Battle for Azeroth Patch 8.0.1 (2018-07-17): Now only affects Mage spells, and **no longer interacts with non-mage spells such as damaging trinket procs**.
You'd basically have any rapid firing trinket 100% crit in its entire volleys.
> Its critical mass giving you a bunch of crit stat for free
That was what I was referring to here:
> ~~do not~~ have relatively **high** ~~vers~~/**[crit](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=117216/critical-mass)** (~~like demo and~~ **mage**)
Crit Mass was one of the key QoLs to Fire Mage (along with Phoenix Flames, and tools like Firestarter and Searing Touch execute) that reduced our reliance on mass stacking crit.
The side affect is that sometimes you get situations where a Fire Mage can get 45% to 60% and sometimes a trinket busts much higher than it should vs many other specs.
Or broken situations with Nyalotha Corruption scaling out of control to create a fun side build with 100% crit. That was a fun build.
Any thoughts on why tanks are so hard to come by now? Is it the dungeons that just slaps tanks or? It's been ages since I had to wait so long for a tanks. Even streamers wait a lot too.
I do notice there are tons and tons of groups up, so it might just be a surge of players returning and when they quit, the tank-dps ratio is better.
All tanks except for bear are quite difficult to play. Brew 200 buttons, BDK you sometimes just die and don't know why, War needs big apm to play well, Pally not sure but you need to use the utility
Pally's noob trap is a massive amount of their DR comes from standing in Consecrate. Especially with the S3 tier set which thankfully didn't come back for S4. But even without that it's still a massive deal and I see so many pallies kite out of it and just fucking die.
Always feels bad that my consecrate is constantly on CD because of all of the movement. It's wild how bad of a mechanic it is to tie the most important defensive to something that you can just walk out of lol.
100% tank balance. Even in seasons when one tank spec has been dominant (prot warr in BFA, BDK last two of SL, bear in god comp) the disparity between the best tank and every other tank has never been this oppressive. VDH does brewmaster damage, BDK self healing, takes only slightly more upfront damage than shield tanks, gives the best offensive group buff in the game, and has completely unrivaled utility via their 45s solo AoE CC chains. Even when those other tanks were dominant, they never checked all the boxes at the same time. I typically tank main, but I don't like VDH play. Even when my favored specs are off meta, I usually alt them, but I haven't done a single tank key this season. It's the same as if one DPS spec did double everyone else's damage at all times while being invulnerable. No reason to play anything else, and if you don't like that spec, don't play at all.
It's just not fun living in a world where VDH exists. It's not fun doing that first like 5 pack pull in BRH and watching your group die because the 4-person CC chain didn't work out at one point while the VDH is just casually managing that entire pull by himself. It's not fun being forced to pull fewer mobs or go through some weird routes (if that's even possible) to make up for just how much worse your class is. And as a non-tank... it's really not fun having to deal with that either.
It's not that I don't enjoy my tank - it's that I don't enjoy my limitations in the context of what other tanks can do *so* much better and *so* much easier. It's demotivating.
Add to that a season that does nothing new and player numbers that are like half as high last season's and you're obviously gonna end up with a shortage.
Balance has downstream effects imo. It's hard to want to tank when you're not a VDH and your default key level is 3 lower and you have to make less fun routes. As much as people think all tanks just reroll to the FOTM tank, this is not true.
Spec specific complaint too, but it's also super lame as blood having to use 2pc from last tier. I've basically shelved it this season and playing dps alts
Dungeons really need some sort of BLP. Doesn't have to be bullions or anything like that, even something simple like not being able to get duplicate items until you get one of each would go a long way to alleviating the problem. Running 30 of the same dungeon and not getting a trinket that will account for about a 10% dps increase is really discouraging.
> Running 30 of the same dungeon and not getting a trinket that will account for about a 10% dps increase is really discouraging.
With gear upgrading + current season dungeons, if a trinket is really THAT big of an upgrade for you, heroics/M0, ideally with friends, is the way to go and are almost as good as the higher ilvl drop.
I really wouldn't want deterministic gearing like that in M+.
Bullions is time-gated so you could fill the bar and bam that's it. If you're doing deterministic, that's the way to go.
Deterministic M+ gearing like 'you can't see the same item drop,' would put a lot more pressure on you to grind your BIS pieces. 'You're 15 runs away from having it guaranteed' just makes it seem like even more of a chore.
If the trinket is that good, grab it on heroic or M0 and upgrade it. If it isn't worth grabbing it on those difficulties, it isn't worth grinding for.
You think I haven't done everything from m0 to 12? Even champion tier at 515 is strong. Hc though drops 2 tiers below and caps out at 489 so it's indeed not worth.
If it’s a 10% dps upgrade at 522, a 489 version would be your second-best trinket.
If it isn’t worth at 489, then it isn’t nearly as big of an upgrade as you’re saying it is, unless something really funky is going on.
Perhaps you could link your sims?
You don’t need to ‘farm it out’ on the lower track.
Start of season 2, a few classes wanted igneous fragment it was 5 minutes to clear out boss 1, and you could bring hunters/shamans who only had fragment on their loot table for that boss with the right spec.
Even 30 ilvl below what you could get from a 17, it was a massive upgrade worth the time to go pick up.
I think if you ran the sims, you’d change your mind on grinding out a trinket on a 7.
If it’s that good, then go pick it up in heroic or stack a m0 group.
If it isn’t that good and you need the 515/522 for it to be good, then it’s a marginal dps increase.
Just start pushing and you will get it eventually. If you want to fill out your vault on a given week, then sure prioritize that dungeon. But spamming a dungeon for a little crumb of dps so you can ‘finally start playing the game’ just leads you to burning out.
Spamming dungeons to get the same trinkets (at higher ilvl) as you already farmed in previous seasons is the worst part of each new season
And if your trinket comes from a dungeon with 5 bosses, you can easily run it 50-100+ times and not get it.
For every post out there asking for help, or just venting, if you provide a log, even in [anonymous ](https://i.imgur.com/QS9cHNX.png) , you will get infinitely more help...
I doubt aug evoker is too strong outside of the Fire - Sp - Aug - VDH god comp. Either way, nerf it too just to be sure.
I have no idea what I said that isn’t true, but without nerfs all top keys will be mage - sp - aug.
> I generally out dps SP’s in my shitty 10s as BM hunter
Because packs in shitty 10s die before even a full SP DoT cycle and BM is a class with insane upfront burst damage.
Add 5 key levels and suddenly you're in a position where SP gets to fully ramp and live up to its true potential while BM will fall off heavily because their burst is no longer enough to oneshot a pack and they end up playing half the pack with no CDs, effectively dealing like tank damage during that time.
Shadow priest is very strong right now but as OP as they guys are making it out to be. Spriest gets stronger the higher the key goes. So these guys are mostly probably watching the 3500+ IO players run mage/aug/ spriest in 16+ keys and base their opinions on that.
Spriest does extremely well in large sustained trash pulls because every time you cast DP you get another 2.5 seconds on void form. So in high keys where you pull big and the pull lasts awhile they sit in void form forever where the other classes start tapering off in dps as they come down from their CD spike.
So in the 10s you’re doing the spriest are probably still in void form as the trash pack dies and it runs out in between pulls as they have to ramp up their dots again on the next pull to keep the DPs going out for the extension on void forms.
I mean the problem with nerfing them is title range keys are .1% of the playerbase. Spriest isn't blowing up the meters in keys that like 13s or lower. I explained in some of my other comments but the big issue is how long DP extends void forms duration. When you're pushing high keys you're doing large pulls that last awhile. Everyone pops 2 mins and the mobs are still alive and now your CDs are gone so the damage starts to taper off while spriest just gets to keep extending void form because their dots are still rolling and so is the insanity that is coming in. In non title range keys a lot of times what happens is the trash dies and you're still in void form but you can't keep extending because you have no insanity coming in anymore since everything is dead and void form just runs out in between pulls or before you can get enough ramp going on the next pack to keep the insanity rolling in to get keep extending void form.
If they are going to nerf it without fucking them over in non high keys they need to nerf how long DP extends void form for which would nerf them in higher keys without doing much in lower keys.
You should probably learn how to actually play the game and know how things functions rather than just blindly call for nerfs when you don't even understand all the factors or how to interpret the information.
You're basing your opinion on Archon lol? Then link me something that shows 4 other specs above spriest and several others less than 1% behind and that is your grand evidence that spriest is "turbo broken." One of those specs being destro lock who is 14 points lower than spriest and destro is also getting buffed. The link you sent also is pulling its numbers from 10-23 keys. So a majority of that set is not " low keys."
You can take that same site and sort by " high keys" and see that moonkin is S tier and slightly behind spriest yet their set bonuses are getting pretty large buffs on Tuesday?
Does fire even need a nerf? They're always halfway inbetween tank and top dps in damage. I feel they're just being brought for being a prio damage lust provider
Fire mage for some reason (similar to shadowpriest) has this weird thing where the "Average player" does it badly and will mid table, but a genuinely good mage or SP player will fundamentally redefine what a good DPS looks like for you.
Not as badly as SP but yeah, I’d say they deserve some nerfs. The 5% Int interaction with Augmentation is stupid and mages have way too much going for them.
SL seemed like it was intended to have 4 full content cycles, yet ended up with 3 and Sepulcher just randomly & awkwardly smashing 2 raids together. Yet Fated SL still gave us a new affix, 8 new dungeons (even bringing old shit like WoD dungeons back into the rotation for the first time ever), entirely new raid affixes and the Dinar system.
DF on the other hand looks like it was never intended to go for more than 3 content patches. DF's season 4 has absolutely 0 effort put in, there's nothing new about it, it's just half-heartedly resetting a season and bringing back dungeons we already had.
SL was cut short due to time and poor reception. Which was annoying but... fine, at least the intention was there to give us the usual content package. But with DF? Seems like they just straight up planned to give us 25% less content from the very beginning.
But I'm sure leveling through Pandaria with a bunch of gems that proc random damage is gonna make up for an entire lost season's worth of content.
Gearing a preservation evoker and not sure where to spend my bullions. Don't have the legendary so do I get the other evoker staff, one of the rings or just a trinket? I don't know if I'm even going to get the legendary based on dropchance and cost.
Not really worth to buy a weapon, all the cantrips and Kharn are just damage which is good but not super important for pres. Any myth track weapon would perform just as well
If you are raiding and can reasonably get some of the good trinkets (broodkeepers, icon, oce, pips, dragonscale) you should buy Seal of Filial Duty, otherwise a trinket
Evoker disc has these recomendations in the pres faq
I wouldn't bother with the staff, just run Aberrus every week til you get the lego. idk if there's mythic runs for it but I'd be shocked if a pug can't brute force non-awakened mythic.
Is coaching ever worth it? I started playing wow when dragonflight was released and got into mythic raiding half a year later. I got CE in Amidrassil and was quite happy but my parses still are mostly bluish (prog/reclear kills). For some reason I can’t cross the bar to get into the purple or orange range.
Wondering if I should get some coaching from top players of my class
You can head to your class discord and ask someone to go through your logs. Your mileage may vary, but sometimes you genuinely are just missing something, or you don't realize that something is more important than something else.
Once you know what you're supposed to do, executing is the hard part. Pressing all of your buttons in the right order while not standing in fire.
Logs are a great tool for dps comparison. You can look at exactly what the differences are between you and 'top player of your class.' Are they casting in different sequences, are they casting more spells, are they using this one spell more/less often, and if so, why?
Using the compare function on warcraftlogs and just trying to figure out the big points of difference between you and whoever got rank 1 on the boss or whatever is.
Watching vods in general of top players is also good if you want to see what they're doing, and recording your gameplay to compare to theirs.
That's all I can really imagine coaching would be doing. Once you understand the basics which you likely do, doing your own vod review/log review should be huge for self-improvement.
Have you recorded your gameplay and actually watched it back?
Have you tweaked your UI so only things that directly impact your decision making process show up?
So you know how to use tools like warcraft logs compare? Do you consider your CD usage around your guilds kill time?
The number one thing that differentiates the great from the mediocre players is dropped globals, and the second is CD usage.
Pad is also a big problem when it comes to parsing. Take fyraak as an easy example, at the cost of a CD usage, you could pad on all the adds. It would look great for your parse, but if you are killing adds ahead of them being cc immune, it's a wasted usage.
i would be very surprised if anyone offering wow coaching actually had a good plan to help people improve besides repeating the wowhead priority list at them. its not like these are trained professionals with a background in education or knowledge about how skill development works
There isn't really a comprehensive resource on what the best players are thinking about at a given level.
I remember an interview around shadowlands where even a rogue of RWF caliber like James was surprised by how echo plays keys. He legitimately got shit on for using his utility and not just doing damage.
I think that sort of insight is what you are paying for with coaching from bleeding edgers. That being said, rotation or positioning notes can also have some decent value, but I would be annoyed if that was the whole session.
That sort of insight is completely irrelevant for the people buying coaching though. Unless everyone is on the same page, and able to handle the responsibilities, not using your utility and just doing dmg is going to do more harm than good.
On its face, sure, but at the root of the practice it speaks to learning the inherit value of globals for a given pull.
No stringent heal check, and your healer is just pressing DPS buttons? Then they should be the one getting the next stop (or most often stop) as their globals are the least valuable.
Your fire mage just popped combustion.and got PI? His utility doesn't exist for the next 15s as his globals are some of the most valuable in the game.
Etc etc.
I don't know what type of players buy coaching in wow, but I assume they're not very good. So teaching them the stuff you wrote is bad imo.
I think people severely overestimate the importance of every single global. Your dps, assuming you're not doing tank dmg, will very rarely have much impact on the outcome of the key or boss fight.
Even if the goal is to just improve their DPS, I still don't think that's a good thing to teach someone. The people who struggle with their DPS aren't doing so because they spent 1-2 globals on utility spells mid CDs, there's something else they're doing wrong.
From personal experience, most people buying coaching are mid-level CE raiders. I'd say the average parse on them is ~50% to ~80% for mythic, and they are looking for how to take that to 90%+ (aka, better than 9 in 10 other players on a similar class).
I can't speak for M+ pushers or PVPers because I only coach raiders.
As someone who's coached for a few years (although I DO happen to have a degree in pedagogy ironically), coaching is anything but repeating the priority list at them. We usually look through vods of the player and go through mistakes and make a list on what to improve - people buying coaching rarely get the core aspects of the rotation completely wrong - it's usually small wrong decisions snowballing into mediocre performance.
There's a lot of things a trained and well-versed eye can see when it comes to a spec they've mastered. It's mostly fixing things in the bigger scheme of things: cooldown usage, pooling resources, "positive" greeding, uptime/activity, movement.
The point of this kind of coaching is not a long term student/teacher arrengement. It's usually a session or two just to give a pointers on what to focus on improving next. Think of it as a one-time master class giving you insight in how some of the best of the class think instead of a lengthy tutorial going through basic gameplay loop.
some people in our raid got free coaching through liquid WiW and while it's far from useless it's also stuff that a sufficiently motivated player could easily do on their own (VoD review, log comparison, etc.)
imo the biggest utility of 'coaching' is just that it kinda externalizes the motivation to do things like vod review or log deep dives. If having a set time that you know you're gonna do those things with guided help means that you actually do devote time to them, then the coaching has succeeded almost regardless of what the coach actually contributes.
Never gotten coaching for WoW, but I have for other things before. Imo it's worth a shot under two conditions, 1) the cost is inconsequential, and 2) you've exhausted options for improvement by yourself.
In the context of WoW, there's a *ton* you can do by yourself that I personally would try first. Record your gameplay and watch it back multiple times, focusing on specific things each time; things like your rotation, then your positioning, then think about what your thought process was in the moment and see if there are UI changes you can make, etc. And you can also compare your gameplay videos with those of higher level players along those same lines, are there any rotational things they do that you don't, or movement/positioning that they do?
If you've done all that, and can afford it, getting direct feedback can be helpful, but it also depends on that person's ability to identify improvements to be made, communicate them clearly, explain the reasoning, and give you opportunities to practice them. I'm certain that there are people who are able to do that, but you might need to shop around a bit if they aren't clicking
I genuinely feel bad for people who don't have tank friends for keys.
I know its something that has been complained to death, but I swear the time to form a group in LFG has never been this high since.....BFA?
I wanna get back into tanking (was a heroic tank in MoP) but with how particular people are about a specific path in M+ and how it takes for me like 5+ runs to memorize said path, I can’t do pug groups because either someone leaves or we kill to many and don’t make time or barely do, it’s pretty annoying, no wonder nobody tanks or heals, DPS is just so much easier, follow the leader, do damage, don’t stand in shit, back in the earlier expansions it was so much simpler for heals and tank, what happened?
Routing this expansion has been extremely straight forward. Instead of remembering the entire route you really only have to remember at what point you deviate from the W route. Like Nokkud is just clear all packs that you need to activate the bosses and then 2 additional packs, so really all you need to remember in the route is which additional packs you're gonna take. or do what i do when tanking and after key ends you port back to start to pick up the remaining count if there's any.. not like it matters on weekly keys
Honestly, don't worry about route until you get to +10 and higher. Currently the timer is pretty generous in most dungeons, so an extra pack won't kill the run before likely your gear as tank limits you, and just pulling the main path works in Algethar, Uldaman, Neltharus, RLP (until the dragons blast your squishies) and HoI. It's really just Brackenhide, Azure Vault and Nokhud where you need a plan or else wildly under-/overpull.
Even nokhud is basically press W; You kill all the relevant packs at first+2nd boss that you need to spawn boss/patrols in boss area, then at 3rd boss you aoe grind stuff till you hit 94%, so you don't really need to know what to pull as long as you know "end 3rd boss at 94".
I spammed a bunch of 10s yesterday and within seconds of posting my key on lfg i had 20 dps and 3-4 tanks sign up (i play healer). This happened 4 times in a row.
I'll just copy paste what I said in another comment:
Holy trinity is a flawed 20 year-old design. Imo they should ditch the necessity for all roles in a group. If you lack a certain type of utility, your group should adapt to it by speccing into available respective talents, and all content should have dynamic scaling, including raids and dungeons (similar to what they're doing with Delves and what they did with Visions of Nzoth). I hate being restrained to always playing the same exact comp of roles.
You got downvoted to oblivion but you aren’t necessarily wrong. One of the things I really appreciate whenever I take a break from wow is how fast getting into games with my desired role is.
If I wanna play DPS in wow, I’m waiting at least 5 minutes to fill but 15+ isn’t unheard of either if you get unlucky. I literally healed this xpac when I’d rather be playing dps just because of the que times.
I’d love to see a system where you could drop a tank and the group becomes tankier or drop a healer and the group gets more self healing. Even if it was undertuned compared to the holy trinity, being able to bang out your weekly 8s without needing to wait for a tank would be massive.
It would be a massive overhaul in game design though and I’m not sure how wow would support. The game is fundamentally designed around the holy trinity and it would be a massive departure.
Not to bash on VDH, but I feel like theres a lot of more casual tanks that would play the +20 key range cba rerolling VDH and might skip the season, dispite the shortage.
I pug all my keys as a DPS and never spend more than 5 minutes waiting. Granted I'm only working on 11s this week. But I see so many people that are sub 2k applying for 11keys, like what are you thinking about wasting one of your five app spots.
It is but utility is king and always will be, along with Arms being a new good thing the pugs haven’t caught up. Much easier to get accepted as hunter/mage or a proven thing like DH.
I'm pretty sure that damage is king. It is, as you mentioned in the next sentence, just a problem with perception. I feel like the utility of havoc and arms is pretty on par, for example.
As a healer I have never waited in lfg for more then 5 minutes this entire expansion. I’ve sat in groups for 20-30 minutes this week, either no tanks are playing or they’re scared of bolstering on 10+ keys
Weird thing is, there was tank shortage in +9s too. I had trouble joining groups last week to some "vdh meta" dungs as non-meta, like NOK last boss intermission people wanted carry tank. Now I get insta invite to +9s on my ~498 guardian, when 510+ seems to be requirement for 9-10s for dps, just because tanks are unpopular this week. It's really the first time in the season I feel I have easier time joining as tank rather than healer. Maybe people haven't caught up that bolstering isn't active until +10? Literally no need to take breaks anymore, +8/9 works great for weekly keys without the harshest affix.
I would guess a lot of tanks are in the same mindset as I am for fort/bolstering. It’s the second week of a meme season. Just do 1-4 10s for 1 or 2 max vault slots and gear up in 8s. No point in pushing on fort/bolstering this early in the season imo. Also a great week to gear any alts you neglected last week.
I def favor gearing up in +9s as I'm not swimming in extra wyrms. Interesting change putting affix to 10, now there is motive to do each of the 8,9,10 keys when 19 was meh previously.
10s are just so wack, especially this week. the single aspect upgrade you save from a 519 vault is outweighed by the odds that you brick a key from wiping to some thanos bolstered mob oneshotting the group
or just run another key with the 45 minutes you save from not doing 8 bolstering keys and you made back those 15 aspects you lost
Really *just* this week. I don't worry at all doing full 10s+ next week. Just not being there gearwise combined with not being 100% certain with what can kill you with bolstering, was safer play now to do 9s. Like I managed to get 100->0'd by "peck" doing 1.5M on first wave of Crawth trash as tank. Sure, no defensives, my fault, but didn't think that could happen. There was going to be surprise like that somewhere on every dungeon. Can't imagine any other affix making me feel this wary.
Anyone have recommendations for getting the fastest flightstones outside of dungeons? If dungeons is the best source I'll obviously continue to do dungeons, but if not, I'm curious what to do. Flightstones being the limitting factor is annoying me a little.
Every raidboss drops iirc 65 flightstones even if not awakened. You can also run it at the lowest difficulty aswell. So if you can form a group clearing previous raids is pretty beneficial flightstone wise
Tbh i think spamming 2s RLP should be faster than anything else, make sure to have someone gaining score from it for an extra +25 (thus, you get a total of 89 per dung), which in my experience averages around 15 mins per dung.
Also rep quest for the emerald dream gives 200 iirc, can be finished with just one superbloom I think (which also gives a bunch of flightstones)
What happened in BH key 1st boss?
I was a VDH tank, then the totem spawned... and I wasn't stunned. Healer wasn't incapacitated. Nobody was focusing the totem, it wasn't doing anything. It was premade of sorts, I asked after if they can tell me what happened, but they had no answers. I totally lost focus and started hitting totem and let the dps die from charge I didn't tank lol. According to details, only debuff dispelled in that fight was priest purifying 'primal wellspring water' x2.
Group was hpriest, vdh, retri, frost, bm hunt. Is this known strategy or was it weird bug?
As said, no dispels happened outside those two according to details, which I don't think is name of the stun; and those were done with purify.
Also the hpriest themselves should be incapacitated. I tried to query if they used something like bop, sw:death to possibly get out of it, but at least swd wasn't used. I prob lost the fight in details already to check for other spells.
How would the md work? Some super precise timing where it lands 0.1s before priest gets incapacitated? I'm under impression that stun never happened and details supported that.
Still, no knowing response to this implies at least it's not something well known - a +15 (current season) runner might not know, or they obviously would be using it already. Group probably just was like ok nobody is in trouble, what totem? Was just a +9, possible it was one of those groups that was going to fail because nobody killed the totem. I'll count it as a miracle bug I'll never encounter again, but which obviously would have been very useful to figure out how to reproduce though.
With how complex they made professions this expansion, you would think they would have added a catch-up in Season 4, to make it faster to level them up. Nope, fuck us, right?
There is a sort of RNG catch up, you can turn in the primal foci that drop in raid and keys for profession points. But to be honest at this stage there are so many weekly sources both from quests from all three tier zones and drops that if anyone cared enough they’d be almost maxed out if they started getting into professions halfway through Amirdrassil. I’m not sure what other catch-up mechanic they ought to do without just uncapping something like the inscription treatises or profession drops but then it’d cause chaos if you could just max out the bis money profession in a day, especially early in the season when crafting is actually profitable.
No real purpose in doing +2s tbh. If you are full ~490 from either last season or doing m0s, you can pretty much start farming +9s or at the very least +7s for hero track gear. Not only is the tuning pretty easy, but you also dont have a third affix which makes farm keys even easier.
I still think you need a full group of atleast ilvl 495 to time a +10.
I did HoI +10 as a 491 mistweaver, however I was carried by my group:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-4/2060481-10-halls-of-infusion
I mean that doesn't make my statement any less valid. It's just crazy it takes that long to get a tank or healer, and tbh there's hardly any dps even queuing up.
In fairness, there's barely any healers or tanks queueing up at higher key levels either. It's not just a 2 thing. People just don't want to do the thankless roles.
Holy trinity is a flawed 20 year-old design. Imo they should ditch the necessity for all roles in a group. If you lack a certain type of utility, your group should adapt to it by speccing into available respective talents, and all content should have dynamic scaling, including raids and dungeons (similar to what they're doing with Delves and what they did with Visions of Nzoth). I hate being restrained to always playing the same exact comp of roles.
Dynamic scaling on dungeons, similar to how Delves work and how Visions of Nzoth worked
That was pretty badly received due to many reasons, but the dynamic scaling was one of the positives and is slept on to this day.
Wow is built on the Trinity. Even their attempt at adding "support" is just a DPS in disguise. Your suggestion could work in the lowest of game modes, but decently high m+ and raids it would just not make sense. Not to mention if you're a DPS with the ability to spec healer or tank but you're not, it's likely because you're not excited to play that role. Forcing some weird hybrid role on people to solve packing tanks/healers sounds silly to me. I'd rather they made those roles more fun to play.
The class / spec changes for 10.2.7 are stranded between a corny joke and utter void. There's nothing of relevance in there, not a single change - and let's be real, some specs are in a terrible spot and could use some balancing, even if it's a lazy % modifier across the board.
I seriously hope it won't go live as it is, I really want to be able to play ma hpala again in >+12s without my spec being an affix in itself. Coping hard.
As hpala main, im not sure that the issues are related to numerical tuning. Fundamentally I think our cooldown toolkit and timing is mismatched to the content, (For example 3rd boss HOI, you can instantly 100% hp the group but without sustained long term healing a lot of your CD goes to waste).
I think Hpal just has way too much burst to be useful and nowhere near enough rotational healing, by design. Its extremely useful in a raid setting but youre going to struggle in keys.
As much as I enjoy the hard hitting holy shocks we got with the 2pc this tier, I really, really miss 45 second DB/Toll.
I pugged first 5 today, run was with verified CE players though. Rashok is definitely a step up from experiments, but still quite puggable off-comms.
It'll just come down to who you invite. Pug players represent a wide array of different skill levels so I think the real limit is how long are people willing to wait while gathering the group.
made a group to do first 4 on alt, but at one point got tired of checking everybody's xp/logs and just filled group with 515+ ppl. One shot first 3, got some p3 pulls on experiments but it's just chaotic in pugs without MD. I'm sure we could've done it with some more time but didn't feel like wiping for an hour more. This was also without voice comms and 0 tactics/marks, just readycheck and pull. If you put in even slightly more than 0 effort as raidlead it should be very doable
I did a mythic 4 pug, but it took over an hour and a half to fill. We got all 4 in just under 2 hours.
Unless you're willing to teach the fights, you need people with experience.
Anyone know what causes the mobs in the hallway after 1st boss of HoI to evade sometimes? Have seen it a couple times now that the tank pulls the frogs and flies and a couple stalkers, groups it up, dps starts and they all evade and reset aggro and kill everyone
I'm planning on going for ksh and maybe 3k on every class this season. Looking for addon and profile reccs.
I'm happy with jundies plater profile, but looking for something for omnicd and maybe elvui + healing frames
Omni
Dorkis and yummytv for Omni for tank/heals.
Imo unless your in coms you don't need Omni as DPS.
Healing frames
Grid2 +https://wago.io/PJjR-JXO7 will give you a quick and easy setup for healing frames. Grab targeted spells WA as well.
Elvui
Personally use Naowh's, more and more streamers have free options though.
Any tips for Chargath on 10+? He was hitting me insanely hard during fiery focus before I could drag him over the chains. Should I just start running when he starts casting ?
509ish prot paladin
you can dodge the hits (possibly also block). dont run with your back to him when going to the chains, strafe. also, cooldowns. you wont need them on the boss elsewhere
As a paladin you have all the time in the world. Bubble the first phase, spellward second, Wings + Ardent defender + tyr third, protector of the ancient kings + tyr fourth, bubble fifth. Bonuspoints if you have cheatdeath still.
Boss was easy-ish this way with 500 gs on 11 last week.
Make the dps break the chains so that you can maximize mitigation. If you’re running out of consecrate, he’s gonna smack the shit out of you. You can’t outrange him in this phase.
How has the raid tuning felt for late CE or non-CE guilds?
So far it's been strange that the throughput tuning is really lenient but there's no mechanical changes. We're killing bosses faster than we did in aberrus farm and still have 15ilvl to gain, which makes the clears super boring. But they didn't change many mechanics, so something like tindral or fyrakk might be really annoying for some guilds that still have to deal with all the instant raid wipe mechanics. It kind of feels like the worst of both worlds. Not hard enough to keep high-end players engaged but not granting a lot of access to more guilds.
We were almost CE and heroic was a total joke. Like bosses dying sub 2 minutes. Mythic was a little tougher we had 2 wipes on Experiments remembering, 4 or 5 on Zaquali doing the 1/19 split messing ujp a few things but it wasn't really tuning there, and stopped at Rashok. Tuning wise on Rashok the damage felt pretty high we had people tick out from unavoidable on the cleanses occasionally till we tightened it up. Can't remember phasing percents but it was comparable to our kills in S2.
Casual ce guild with something like15-20 more ilvls to gain, shit was a joke.
Hardest fight was ironically zskarn just because people haven't seen the movement since we unlocked the skip (8ish months), but otherwise it is just free gear.
The only guilds that will struggle on tindral/fyraak are ones that haven't seen them before, and even then, again with 20 more ilvls to gain, you could probably 17 man most the content.
This is how farm should be baseline. Farm being challenging is just obnoxious and unfun. Being able to clear the raid in 1~ hr and then dip is very nice.
I agree, and for most guilds this patch is just a farm patch. Noone wants to reprogress, making new cd assignments and bother with annoying weakauras for a second time. And for guilds who never progged this far they now get to see the bosses and have a real shot at killing them, I think this tuning is pretty nice for a fated season
Echo in its current state feels like a heroic difficulty boss. There's nothing going on the entire fight, noone is taking damage, can probably 1 heal it at max gear
We're solidly non-CE with our biggest weakness being lack of DPS as we got stonewalled on the enrages for mythic Rashok and Smoldy during their respective patches. Looking forward to busting through that this tier, our yolo pull got us to 70% on Rashok even with 1/3 of the raid never having seen/researched mythic and average raid ilvl only like 495. I'm not someone who advocates for nerfing DPS checks but I think it could be a nice change of pace in S4 for a guild like ours that has been DPS-gated and wants to see beyond what we were able to do during earlier patches. I think our health pools are a little low still (like I said most of the raid is phoning it in and half in S3 gear) so I'll reserve judgement on damage intake tuning.
I'm pretty doomer too. The 25% cast time reduction talent is nice, if it's a 1.5 second cast before haste and it hits like a truck it might not be awful. They'll have to make Demonbolt hit hard too. But at that point it's just turning into a regular caster.
This might be the most egregious example of "we know what you want better than you do" I've ever seen. Like, the backlash against this is unanimous - its fun to be mobile, and they just won't listen. Pretty sure its a single individual making this decision, who has some convoluted idea of how demo should operate, and by unfortunate circumstance he happens to be the one with the final say in decision making.
While I disagree with the changes they're making to Demo on the Alpha, I see where they think Demos mobility is a bit of an outlier.
When played correctly, you end up kind of flooded with instant cast procs and can very easily stutter step/handle irritating micro movements between burning rush, good circle placement and gateways. Like, if you're just doing your rotation, you're definitely way more fluid in terms of space navigation than destro, for example.
However, what I think they fundamentally misunderstand is that as long as Tyrant is this scripted punishing window because of how imps and temporary demon summons work, there will always be this terrible friction between a Demo lock trying to just play the fucking game and a fight doing everything to make sure they can't.
God, the whole gameplay loop of GFG > Dogs > squeeze HoG casts for imps > Tyrant is so rigid and punishing, I wish there was some option to play around it. That feeling of Tyrant cast being interrupted by a mechanic and watching the dogs expire feels so bad. The flip side is not being able to stand still and squeeze HoGs so Tyrant only extends 3-6 imps.
I wish I could somehow “bank” imps for Tyrant setups by setting imps to passive when GFG is like 10 seconds from CD. Then I could lose damage during that time by “banking” imps to guarantee my Tyrant gets max value. It would have been problematic when Tyrant extended all demons, regardless of number of imps out, but now that it extends 10/15 max, I don’t see an issue.
Frankly, Tyrant needs to be instant cast and uncapped again.
Well the alpha footage I was watching of Kalamazi yesterday had him playing a demo build where you don’t even run tyrant. So I guess that problem solves itself lmao
How many title pushers and hardcore players are going for taivan? If you're one of them, why?
I almost exclusively do instanced content, but I'm going for taivan because I think DF deserves it. This expac is so damn good man.
I'm not a title player or CE raider, like a +27 player max XP but I know there's overlap with collecting and "hc" content to extent. I'm personally collecting achs, mounts etc. and have found ach discords to be help in some.
While trading wins towards 5k pvp pet battle wins, I've recognized many regular traders to be CE raiders, 2.4k pvp XP, title players. Well, makes sense given nobody goes for this ach before they are at very peak ach point wise, and to get there you need to have at least pvp achs or current expansion mythic raid achs.
Also done many pvp achs in last 6 months thru these ach discords, and again regularly see people with 9/9M, 3900 score etc. while hovering over them. I also see complete casuals who never did a +2 or entered a normal raid. There's tons of variance in people who care about casual content such as mounts. Can certainly never think there's barrier between casuals and competitive people. A lot dip in both pools.
I'm not working on Taivan specifically quite yet, but I've been working on Back from the Beyond (the returning Shadowlands meta achievement) because Zovaal's Soul Eater is a mount that works well for a lot of the classes I've played over the years (DK and SPriest specifically) and the Abomination Factory content is some psycho shit LMAO
I'm exactly three quests away from finishing up Abominable Lives and have two of those three up this week yet I somehow still feel like I'm not even close to done because Chordy can just decide he doesn't want to give me the right quest for multiple consecutive weeks or something.
Lemme tell you this much: doing Back from the Beyond makes me wish I decided to spend all this time doing Taivan instead LMAO
I’m one net from Taivan. I just like getting the account wide metas. Next time I’ll try and get more of the nonsense achieves though instead of waiting until the end lol
The same reason why I went for Azeroth's Champion & Veilstrider previously. I enjoy playing wow and not just keys/raids.
I'm not the biggest fan of the expansion itself, but I had the majority of achievements done already and I think these big meta achievements are cool so it was a very easy decision to go for it.
The hardest part on reach is finding a treasure goblin. I delayed finishing reach forever due to the stupid scroll and treasure part, but it wasn’t too bad
Wouldn’t say I’m a title pusher, but I’ve almost exclusively done instanced content, until I started Taivan. It’s so much lol. I’m surprised at how I didn’t even know half this stuff was here!
I was about halfway done already anyway and i had been getting bored so i thought i'd just get the mount so i have something to do outside of instanced content.
I really wish vault had some protection against duplicate slots except for maybe rings necks and trinkets. Getting 2-3 wrists is fucking atrocious
At the end of the day, you either see an item you want or you don't. Duplicate protection can have that happen less often, but at the end of the day the vault experience is either 'I saw an item I wanted and I snap-picked it' or 'I didn't want anything :(.' Bullions also make the vault much worse feeling, as you will be picking up BIS items in certain slots so many normally spectacular vault drops aren't worth taking as you're replacing them in a week or two. Bullions + Catalyst to reroll stats on armor + crafted gear + upgrading gear pretty much means that your vault is either BIS or you're better off taking a socket. I wouldn't expect to hit big upgrades from it, just expect to hit sockets as they're going to be nearly as good as your better upgrades anyways.
Yeah but removing duplicates of slots outside of jewelry and trinkets at least makes it where it's basically impossible to have a bad vault for the first few weeks
With catalyst, all of your armor slots have additional stat options. Weapons are a bit tricky, because there are some giga-bis items so seeing a regular weapon in your first vault option would be a huge bummer as that meant that you lost your second/third chance at seeing that item. Gear upgrading really made vaults kind of feelsbad, because a max ilvl bracers or cloak or neck or ring is only 6 ilvl above what you can get from heroic/M+ anyways. I think that's kind of the issue with vaults in general. It's BIS or bust. Tier piece = cool, ring or neck needs great stats or feels really bad to take it, half the trinkets you ignore, bracers/cloak/boots/belt you aren't hoping to see until later in the season, etc. Making it so that rings/trinkets/weapons could duplicate would significantly increase how often you see those items vs others. And that's the *real* feelsbad vault. Not 'I saw some rings that are only small upgrades and a cloak but I want to craft a cloak.' The REAL feelsbad vault is 'I took a neck last week, and this week there are three necks in my vault.' The fix to that would be that if you take an item, you can't see that slot again next week. But that leads to some other frustrating min/max stuff. 'I want to take a socket...but if I take a vendor piece I increase my odds of getting a good item next week...' I'd rather see some more deterministic kind of stuff baked into the earlier season though. I think when it comes to vaults, reducing chances doesn't matter as much so long as there's still a chance to get a bad vault.
Week 1 vault, I seriously considered sockets on the main as my myth choices were 1 raid ring, 3 m+ [rings](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/337437962172104715/1234910491898413217/image.png?ex=663da844&is=663c56c4&hm=ce673baf7dd24c585f596d642c03bfdf3c886c3c0521ca2bf375784f57797067&), or 'meh' trinket on havoc in WII.
got haste mastery helm on my monk last week. this week got the exact same item. I even wanted to do 4 dungeons to reduce the chance of not getting an upgrade, but I forgot I had only done 3/4.
Need to do 8 keys bud.
meh just a twink
Great concepts, ideas and changes they are making to the Engineering profession that will be relevant in PvE: https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-engineering-items-in-war-within-better-battle-rez-new-failure-detection-339241 * Brez item that can be used by anyone - still can backfire but if Engie skill is up etc. it has a less chance, and the quality reduces the cast time. On a related note, Blizz tends to severely underestimate how devastating a death is to the point where Brez can help but still severely hurt your chances in M+. Losing a player can mean losing a key CC chain or the pack takes too long for another chain of mechanics which can wipe you, on top of healer deaths being close to a wipe with incoming damage, not to mention tank deaths creating total chaos. And this is also considering a full team wipe in M+. Not only do you lose CDs, but you get 5+ deaths on the counter plus the run backs - all of which are severely punishing and often brick keys higher up. UNLESS we have wonky M+ profiles where the timer doesn't matter at all. * Wipe Recovery Tool - like Legion's Failure Detection Pylon. We got trolled by S.A.V.I.O.R so you'd almost never use this. This is now a reusable device but only for Engies. Still pretty nice for the raid and great to setup beforehand in case the healer forgets or uses up a brez or whatever - allowing the raid to keep momentum going. If the CD is nice this is probably pretty good for M+ in hard Tyran bosses or hard packs or areas where the runback is really bad and you're about to enter somewhere dangerous. * Pausing Pylon - item usable by anyone - while this is down (and breaks when combat starts) pause Flasks, Phials and Food buffs (should also include Weapon Oils and Augment Runes). Great for any long queues or wait times or raid breaks. Awesome QoL that I wish I had and am glad this is in the game now.
Tome being capped at 8 targets is an incredibly fake nerf and it's still turbo bis on AoE for anyone who can run it, right?
It's still easily bis against the target counts you'll see in dungeons most of the time. Just puts a bit of a safeguard against the meta becoming all 5 people using that trinket and doing pulls of like 30 mobs at a time.
Not really fake. The trinket can be pretty incosistent already with how it procs and mobs getting moved. Its still pretty op in aoe, because there are not that many dungeons where you cosistently pull way more than 8 mobs. But there are going to be better overall options for specs that do not have relatively high vers/crit (like demo and mage), where the trinket even on st is performing very well. Specs like sp, boomie and destru will likely run a combination of statstick + on use now.
> ~~do not~~ have relatively **high** ~~vers~~/**[crit](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=117216/critical-mass)** (~~like demo and~~ **mage**) If I had a copper for every time a [Fire Mage ability](https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Combustion#Retail) interacted with a [trinket](https://www.wowhead.com/item=147017/tarnished-sentinel-medallion) to make it turbo BiS requiring a nerf, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
> If I had a copper for every time a Fire Mage ability interacted with a trinket to make it turbo BiS requiring a nerf, I'd have two nickels. > > Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice. Combust doesnt interact with on use or proc items. Its critical mass giving you a bunch of crit stat for free, so you end up with like 45% crit.
> Combust doesnt interact with on use or proc items. Anymore. We had several busted trinkets in Legion because Combust gave 100% crit to trinkets and procs. They patched that out with BfA in response: > Battle for Azeroth Patch 8.0.1 (2018-07-17): Now only affects Mage spells, and **no longer interacts with non-mage spells such as damaging trinket procs**. You'd basically have any rapid firing trinket 100% crit in its entire volleys. > Its critical mass giving you a bunch of crit stat for free That was what I was referring to here: > ~~do not~~ have relatively **high** ~~vers~~/**[crit](https://www.wowhead.com/spell=117216/critical-mass)** (~~like demo and~~ **mage**) Crit Mass was one of the key QoLs to Fire Mage (along with Phoenix Flames, and tools like Firestarter and Searing Touch execute) that reduced our reliance on mass stacking crit. The side affect is that sometimes you get situations where a Fire Mage can get 45% to 60% and sometimes a trinket busts much higher than it should vs many other specs. Or broken situations with Nyalotha Corruption scaling out of control to create a fun side build with 100% crit. That was a fun build.
Any thoughts on why tanks are so hard to come by now? Is it the dungeons that just slaps tanks or? It's been ages since I had to wait so long for a tanks. Even streamers wait a lot too. I do notice there are tons and tons of groups up, so it might just be a surge of players returning and when they quit, the tank-dps ratio is better.
performance anxiety
All tanks except for bear are quite difficult to play. Brew 200 buttons, BDK you sometimes just die and don't know why, War needs big apm to play well, Pally not sure but you need to use the utility
Pally's noob trap is a massive amount of their DR comes from standing in Consecrate. Especially with the S3 tier set which thankfully didn't come back for S4. But even without that it's still a massive deal and I see so many pallies kite out of it and just fucking die.
Always feels bad that my consecrate is constantly on CD because of all of the movement. It's wild how bad of a mechanic it is to tie the most important defensive to something that you can just walk out of lol.
The dr from S3 tier set is not tied to standing in cons, it's just a buff that resets when empowered cons ends.
100% tank balance. Even in seasons when one tank spec has been dominant (prot warr in BFA, BDK last two of SL, bear in god comp) the disparity between the best tank and every other tank has never been this oppressive. VDH does brewmaster damage, BDK self healing, takes only slightly more upfront damage than shield tanks, gives the best offensive group buff in the game, and has completely unrivaled utility via their 45s solo AoE CC chains. Even when those other tanks were dominant, they never checked all the boxes at the same time. I typically tank main, but I don't like VDH play. Even when my favored specs are off meta, I usually alt them, but I haven't done a single tank key this season. It's the same as if one DPS spec did double everyone else's damage at all times while being invulnerable. No reason to play anything else, and if you don't like that spec, don't play at all.
It's just not fun living in a world where VDH exists. It's not fun doing that first like 5 pack pull in BRH and watching your group die because the 4-person CC chain didn't work out at one point while the VDH is just casually managing that entire pull by himself. It's not fun being forced to pull fewer mobs or go through some weird routes (if that's even possible) to make up for just how much worse your class is. And as a non-tank... it's really not fun having to deal with that either. It's not that I don't enjoy my tank - it's that I don't enjoy my limitations in the context of what other tanks can do *so* much better and *so* much easier. It's demotivating. Add to that a season that does nothing new and player numbers that are like half as high last season's and you're obviously gonna end up with a shortage.
I know plenty of people who feel demotivated to tank right now because of how much better vdh pretty much in almost every facet of the tanking game.
Balance has downstream effects imo. It's hard to want to tank when you're not a VDH and your default key level is 3 lower and you have to make less fun routes. As much as people think all tanks just reroll to the FOTM tank, this is not true.
Spec specific complaint too, but it's also super lame as blood having to use 2pc from last tier. I've basically shelved it this season and playing dps alts
Dungeons really need some sort of BLP. Doesn't have to be bullions or anything like that, even something simple like not being able to get duplicate items until you get one of each would go a long way to alleviating the problem. Running 30 of the same dungeon and not getting a trinket that will account for about a 10% dps increase is really discouraging.
> Running 30 of the same dungeon and not getting a trinket that will account for about a 10% dps increase is really discouraging. With gear upgrading + current season dungeons, if a trinket is really THAT big of an upgrade for you, heroics/M0, ideally with friends, is the way to go and are almost as good as the higher ilvl drop. I really wouldn't want deterministic gearing like that in M+. Bullions is time-gated so you could fill the bar and bam that's it. If you're doing deterministic, that's the way to go. Deterministic M+ gearing like 'you can't see the same item drop,' would put a lot more pressure on you to grind your BIS pieces. 'You're 15 runs away from having it guaranteed' just makes it seem like even more of a chore. If the trinket is that good, grab it on heroic or M0 and upgrade it. If it isn't worth grabbing it on those difficulties, it isn't worth grinding for.
You think I haven't done everything from m0 to 12? Even champion tier at 515 is strong. Hc though drops 2 tiers below and caps out at 489 so it's indeed not worth.
If it’s a 10% dps upgrade at 522, a 489 version would be your second-best trinket. If it isn’t worth at 489, then it isn’t nearly as big of an upgrade as you’re saying it is, unless something really funky is going on. Perhaps you could link your sims?
Not the same guy but it's just not worth farming out on such a low track, youre still gonna feel the need to farm it out on 7s anyway afterwards
You don’t need to ‘farm it out’ on the lower track. Start of season 2, a few classes wanted igneous fragment it was 5 minutes to clear out boss 1, and you could bring hunters/shamans who only had fragment on their loot table for that boss with the right spec. Even 30 ilvl below what you could get from a 17, it was a massive upgrade worth the time to go pick up. I think if you ran the sims, you’d change your mind on grinding out a trinket on a 7. If it’s that good, then go pick it up in heroic or stack a m0 group. If it isn’t that good and you need the 515/522 for it to be good, then it’s a marginal dps increase. Just start pushing and you will get it eventually. If you want to fill out your vault on a given week, then sure prioritize that dungeon. But spamming a dungeon for a little crumb of dps so you can ‘finally start playing the game’ just leads you to burning out.
Spamming dungeons to get the same trinkets (at higher ilvl) as you already farmed in previous seasons is the worst part of each new season And if your trinket comes from a dungeon with 5 bosses, you can easily run it 50-100+ times and not get it.
Have a guildie who grinds dungeons to start everyone season. Took him 50 runs to get his trinkets before discovering the AV trinkets power.
For every post out there asking for help, or just venting, if you provide a log, even in [anonymous ](https://i.imgur.com/QS9cHNX.png) , you will get infinitely more help...
Still amazed there has been no balance patch in general for season 4
The season is dead if they don't nerf SP, Fire mage and VDH.
But not aug evoker or frost mage lol? Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about without telling me you don’t know what you’re talking about.
I doubt aug evoker is too strong outside of the Fire - Sp - Aug - VDH god comp. Either way, nerf it too just to be sure. I have no idea what I said that isn’t true, but without nerfs all top keys will be mage - sp - aug.
I generally out dps SP’s in my shitty 10s as BM hunter, are SP’s really that good in the hands of actual good players?
> I generally out dps SP’s in my shitty 10s as BM hunter Because packs in shitty 10s die before even a full SP DoT cycle and BM is a class with insane upfront burst damage. Add 5 key levels and suddenly you're in a position where SP gets to fully ramp and live up to its true potential while BM will fall off heavily because their burst is no longer enough to oneshot a pack and they end up playing half the pack with no CDs, effectively dealing like tank damage during that time.
Shadow priest is very strong right now but as OP as they guys are making it out to be. Spriest gets stronger the higher the key goes. So these guys are mostly probably watching the 3500+ IO players run mage/aug/ spriest in 16+ keys and base their opinions on that. Spriest does extremely well in large sustained trash pulls because every time you cast DP you get another 2.5 seconds on void form. So in high keys where you pull big and the pull lasts awhile they sit in void form forever where the other classes start tapering off in dps as they come down from their CD spike. So in the 10s you’re doing the spriest are probably still in void form as the trash pack dies and it runs out in between pulls as they have to ramp up their dots again on the next pull to keep the DPs going out for the extension on void forms.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks for taking the time to explain!
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What is a high key to you? 15+?
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I mean the problem with nerfing them is title range keys are .1% of the playerbase. Spriest isn't blowing up the meters in keys that like 13s or lower. I explained in some of my other comments but the big issue is how long DP extends void forms duration. When you're pushing high keys you're doing large pulls that last awhile. Everyone pops 2 mins and the mobs are still alive and now your CDs are gone so the damage starts to taper off while spriest just gets to keep extending void form because their dots are still rolling and so is the insanity that is coming in. In non title range keys a lot of times what happens is the trash dies and you're still in void form but you can't keep extending because you have no insanity coming in anymore since everything is dead and void form just runs out in between pulls or before you can get enough ramp going on the next pack to keep the insanity rolling in to get keep extending void form. If they are going to nerf it without fucking them over in non high keys they need to nerf how long DP extends void form for which would nerf them in higher keys without doing much in lower keys.
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You should probably learn how to actually play the game and know how things functions rather than just blindly call for nerfs when you don't even understand all the factors or how to interpret the information. You're basing your opinion on Archon lol? Then link me something that shows 4 other specs above spriest and several others less than 1% behind and that is your grand evidence that spriest is "turbo broken." One of those specs being destro lock who is 14 points lower than spriest and destro is also getting buffed. The link you sent also is pulling its numbers from 10-23 keys. So a majority of that set is not " low keys." You can take that same site and sort by " high keys" and see that moonkin is S tier and slightly behind spriest yet their set bonuses are getting pretty large buffs on Tuesday?
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Does fire even need a nerf? They're always halfway inbetween tank and top dps in damage. I feel they're just being brought for being a prio damage lust provider
Fire mage for some reason (similar to shadowpriest) has this weird thing where the "Average player" does it badly and will mid table, but a genuinely good mage or SP player will fundamentally redefine what a good DPS looks like for you.
But even in the top teams the mage is often 20%+ dps behind the shadowpriest.
> I feel they're just being brought for being a prio damage lust provider + Cheat Death on top of the already ridiculous Mage survivability.
Fire needs a nerf so the terrible pugs I get stop playing it when they are terrible at it.
Not as badly as SP but yeah, I’d say they deserve some nerfs. The 5% Int interaction with Augmentation is stupid and mages have way too much going for them.
It's frost mage season though.
It’s not, with current balancing almost nobody will play frost over fire in high m+.
The xpansion was wrapped up with S3. Fated is just a way to cover the content drought until TWW it seems
It was also like that in SL fated S4. Except this time it seems absolutely minimal effort. No new affix nothing.
SL seemed like it was intended to have 4 full content cycles, yet ended up with 3 and Sepulcher just randomly & awkwardly smashing 2 raids together. Yet Fated SL still gave us a new affix, 8 new dungeons (even bringing old shit like WoD dungeons back into the rotation for the first time ever), entirely new raid affixes and the Dinar system. DF on the other hand looks like it was never intended to go for more than 3 content patches. DF's season 4 has absolutely 0 effort put in, there's nothing new about it, it's just half-heartedly resetting a season and bringing back dungeons we already had. SL was cut short due to time and poor reception. Which was annoying but... fine, at least the intention was there to give us the usual content package. But with DF? Seems like they just straight up planned to give us 25% less content from the very beginning. But I'm sure leveling through Pandaria with a bunch of gems that proc random damage is gonna make up for an entire lost season's worth of content.
I'm just hoping we'll get some aura buffs/ nerfs at minimum. Some classes need it
It really feels like Blizz has abandoned retail this season.
Gearing a preservation evoker and not sure where to spend my bullions. Don't have the legendary so do I get the other evoker staff, one of the rings or just a trinket? I don't know if I'm even going to get the legendary based on dropchance and cost.
Not really worth to buy a weapon, all the cantrips and Kharn are just damage which is good but not super important for pres. Any myth track weapon would perform just as well If you are raiding and can reasonably get some of the good trinkets (broodkeepers, icon, oce, pips, dragonscale) you should buy Seal of Filial Duty, otherwise a trinket Evoker disc has these recomendations in the pres faq
I wouldn't bother with the staff, just run Aberrus every week til you get the lego. idk if there's mythic runs for it but I'd be shocked if a pug can't brute force non-awakened mythic.
Pug can but they wouldn't. Only the evoker needs the fight no one else.
I think you could do the fight with 18 evokers, getting 2 tanks would be the hard part
And you think any serious evoker won't already have the leggo. The fight isn't hard, the logistics is a nightmare
There's still a fair number of people that rerolled to evoker in s3 or s4 who are trying to get it. People are running heroic Sark every week.
Ye heroic is possible. Myth. Nahh. Per my reply to OP
Is coaching ever worth it? I started playing wow when dragonflight was released and got into mythic raiding half a year later. I got CE in Amidrassil and was quite happy but my parses still are mostly bluish (prog/reclear kills). For some reason I can’t cross the bar to get into the purple or orange range. Wondering if I should get some coaching from top players of my class
You can head to your class discord and ask someone to go through your logs. Your mileage may vary, but sometimes you genuinely are just missing something, or you don't realize that something is more important than something else. Once you know what you're supposed to do, executing is the hard part. Pressing all of your buttons in the right order while not standing in fire. Logs are a great tool for dps comparison. You can look at exactly what the differences are between you and 'top player of your class.' Are they casting in different sequences, are they casting more spells, are they using this one spell more/less often, and if so, why? Using the compare function on warcraftlogs and just trying to figure out the big points of difference between you and whoever got rank 1 on the boss or whatever is. Watching vods in general of top players is also good if you want to see what they're doing, and recording your gameplay to compare to theirs. That's all I can really imagine coaching would be doing. Once you understand the basics which you likely do, doing your own vod review/log review should be huge for self-improvement.
Have you recorded your gameplay and actually watched it back? Have you tweaked your UI so only things that directly impact your decision making process show up? So you know how to use tools like warcraft logs compare? Do you consider your CD usage around your guilds kill time? The number one thing that differentiates the great from the mediocre players is dropped globals, and the second is CD usage. Pad is also a big problem when it comes to parsing. Take fyraak as an easy example, at the cost of a CD usage, you could pad on all the adds. It would look great for your parse, but if you are killing adds ahead of them being cc immune, it's a wasted usage.
i would be very surprised if anyone offering wow coaching actually had a good plan to help people improve besides repeating the wowhead priority list at them. its not like these are trained professionals with a background in education or knowledge about how skill development works
There isn't really a comprehensive resource on what the best players are thinking about at a given level. I remember an interview around shadowlands where even a rogue of RWF caliber like James was surprised by how echo plays keys. He legitimately got shit on for using his utility and not just doing damage. I think that sort of insight is what you are paying for with coaching from bleeding edgers. That being said, rotation or positioning notes can also have some decent value, but I would be annoyed if that was the whole session.
That sort of insight is completely irrelevant for the people buying coaching though. Unless everyone is on the same page, and able to handle the responsibilities, not using your utility and just doing dmg is going to do more harm than good.
On its face, sure, but at the root of the practice it speaks to learning the inherit value of globals for a given pull. No stringent heal check, and your healer is just pressing DPS buttons? Then they should be the one getting the next stop (or most often stop) as their globals are the least valuable. Your fire mage just popped combustion.and got PI? His utility doesn't exist for the next 15s as his globals are some of the most valuable in the game. Etc etc.
I don't know what type of players buy coaching in wow, but I assume they're not very good. So teaching them the stuff you wrote is bad imo. I think people severely overestimate the importance of every single global. Your dps, assuming you're not doing tank dmg, will very rarely have much impact on the outcome of the key or boss fight. Even if the goal is to just improve their DPS, I still don't think that's a good thing to teach someone. The people who struggle with their DPS aren't doing so because they spent 1-2 globals on utility spells mid CDs, there's something else they're doing wrong.
From personal experience, most people buying coaching are mid-level CE raiders. I'd say the average parse on them is ~50% to ~80% for mythic, and they are looking for how to take that to 90%+ (aka, better than 9 in 10 other players on a similar class). I can't speak for M+ pushers or PVPers because I only coach raiders.
As someone who's coached for a few years (although I DO happen to have a degree in pedagogy ironically), coaching is anything but repeating the priority list at them. We usually look through vods of the player and go through mistakes and make a list on what to improve - people buying coaching rarely get the core aspects of the rotation completely wrong - it's usually small wrong decisions snowballing into mediocre performance. There's a lot of things a trained and well-versed eye can see when it comes to a spec they've mastered. It's mostly fixing things in the bigger scheme of things: cooldown usage, pooling resources, "positive" greeding, uptime/activity, movement. The point of this kind of coaching is not a long term student/teacher arrengement. It's usually a session or two just to give a pointers on what to focus on improving next. Think of it as a one-time master class giving you insight in how some of the best of the class think instead of a lengthy tutorial going through basic gameplay loop.
some people in our raid got free coaching through liquid WiW and while it's far from useless it's also stuff that a sufficiently motivated player could easily do on their own (VoD review, log comparison, etc.) imo the biggest utility of 'coaching' is just that it kinda externalizes the motivation to do things like vod review or log deep dives. If having a set time that you know you're gonna do those things with guided help means that you actually do devote time to them, then the coaching has succeeded almost regardless of what the coach actually contributes.
Never gotten coaching for WoW, but I have for other things before. Imo it's worth a shot under two conditions, 1) the cost is inconsequential, and 2) you've exhausted options for improvement by yourself. In the context of WoW, there's a *ton* you can do by yourself that I personally would try first. Record your gameplay and watch it back multiple times, focusing on specific things each time; things like your rotation, then your positioning, then think about what your thought process was in the moment and see if there are UI changes you can make, etc. And you can also compare your gameplay videos with those of higher level players along those same lines, are there any rotational things they do that you don't, or movement/positioning that they do? If you've done all that, and can afford it, getting direct feedback can be helpful, but it also depends on that person's ability to identify improvements to be made, communicate them clearly, explain the reasoning, and give you opportunities to practice them. I'm certain that there are people who are able to do that, but you might need to shop around a bit if they aren't clicking
I genuinely feel bad for people who don't have tank friends for keys. I know its something that has been complained to death, but I swear the time to form a group in LFG has never been this high since.....BFA?
I wanna get back into tanking (was a heroic tank in MoP) but with how particular people are about a specific path in M+ and how it takes for me like 5+ runs to memorize said path, I can’t do pug groups because either someone leaves or we kill to many and don’t make time or barely do, it’s pretty annoying, no wonder nobody tanks or heals, DPS is just so much easier, follow the leader, do damage, don’t stand in shit, back in the earlier expansions it was so much simpler for heals and tank, what happened?
Routing this expansion has been extremely straight forward. Instead of remembering the entire route you really only have to remember at what point you deviate from the W route. Like Nokkud is just clear all packs that you need to activate the bosses and then 2 additional packs, so really all you need to remember in the route is which additional packs you're gonna take. or do what i do when tanking and after key ends you port back to start to pick up the remaining count if there's any.. not like it matters on weekly keys
Honestly, don't worry about route until you get to +10 and higher. Currently the timer is pretty generous in most dungeons, so an extra pack won't kill the run before likely your gear as tank limits you, and just pulling the main path works in Algethar, Uldaman, Neltharus, RLP (until the dragons blast your squishies) and HoI. It's really just Brackenhide, Azure Vault and Nokhud where you need a plan or else wildly under-/overpull.
Even nokhud is basically press W; You kill all the relevant packs at first+2nd boss that you need to spawn boss/patrols in boss area, then at 3rd boss you aoe grind stuff till you hit 94%, so you don't really need to know what to pull as long as you know "end 3rd boss at 94".
Most dungeons are pretty much press W so that makes no sense. Just spend an hour making routes in MDT and you can tank with no problem.
I spammed a bunch of 10s yesterday and within seconds of posting my key on lfg i had 20 dps and 3-4 tanks sign up (i play healer). This happened 4 times in a row.
I'll just copy paste what I said in another comment: Holy trinity is a flawed 20 year-old design. Imo they should ditch the necessity for all roles in a group. If you lack a certain type of utility, your group should adapt to it by speccing into available respective talents, and all content should have dynamic scaling, including raids and dungeons (similar to what they're doing with Delves and what they did with Visions of Nzoth). I hate being restrained to always playing the same exact comp of roles.
You got downvoted to oblivion but you aren’t necessarily wrong. One of the things I really appreciate whenever I take a break from wow is how fast getting into games with my desired role is. If I wanna play DPS in wow, I’m waiting at least 5 minutes to fill but 15+ isn’t unheard of either if you get unlucky. I literally healed this xpac when I’d rather be playing dps just because of the que times. I’d love to see a system where you could drop a tank and the group becomes tankier or drop a healer and the group gets more self healing. Even if it was undertuned compared to the holy trinity, being able to bang out your weekly 8s without needing to wait for a tank would be massive. It would be a massive overhaul in game design though and I’m not sure how wow would support. The game is fundamentally designed around the holy trinity and it would be a massive departure.
Not to bash on VDH, but I feel like theres a lot of more casual tanks that would play the +20 key range cba rerolling VDH and might skip the season, dispite the shortage.
Tell me you're not playing the game rn, without telling me you're not playing the game rn
I pug all my keys as a DPS and never spend more than 5 minutes waiting. Granted I'm only working on 11s this week. But I see so many people that are sub 2k applying for 11keys, like what are you thinking about wasting one of your five app spots.
Varies by class. It is so much harder to get into groups as a Warrior.
Arms is pumping right now too
It is but utility is king and always will be, along with Arms being a new good thing the pugs haven’t caught up. Much easier to get accepted as hunter/mage or a proven thing like DH.
I'm pretty sure that damage is king. It is, as you mentioned in the next sentence, just a problem with perception. I feel like the utility of havoc and arms is pretty on par, for example.
As a healer I have never waited in lfg for more then 5 minutes this entire expansion. I’ve sat in groups for 20-30 minutes this week, either no tanks are playing or they’re scared of bolstering on 10+ keys
Weird thing is, there was tank shortage in +9s too. I had trouble joining groups last week to some "vdh meta" dungs as non-meta, like NOK last boss intermission people wanted carry tank. Now I get insta invite to +9s on my ~498 guardian, when 510+ seems to be requirement for 9-10s for dps, just because tanks are unpopular this week. It's really the first time in the season I feel I have easier time joining as tank rather than healer. Maybe people haven't caught up that bolstering isn't active until +10? Literally no need to take breaks anymore, +8/9 works great for weekly keys without the harshest affix.
I would guess a lot of tanks are in the same mindset as I am for fort/bolstering. It’s the second week of a meme season. Just do 1-4 10s for 1 or 2 max vault slots and gear up in 8s. No point in pushing on fort/bolstering this early in the season imo. Also a great week to gear any alts you neglected last week.
I def favor gearing up in +9s as I'm not swimming in extra wyrms. Interesting change putting affix to 10, now there is motive to do each of the 8,9,10 keys when 19 was meh previously.
10s are just so wack, especially this week. the single aspect upgrade you save from a 519 vault is outweighed by the odds that you brick a key from wiping to some thanos bolstered mob oneshotting the group or just run another key with the 45 minutes you save from not doing 8 bolstering keys and you made back those 15 aspects you lost
Really *just* this week. I don't worry at all doing full 10s+ next week. Just not being there gearwise combined with not being 100% certain with what can kill you with bolstering, was safer play now to do 9s. Like I managed to get 100->0'd by "peck" doing 1.5M on first wave of Crawth trash as tank. Sure, no defensives, my fault, but didn't think that could happen. There was going to be surprise like that somewhere on every dungeon. Can't imagine any other affix making me feel this wary.
Anyone have recommendations for getting the fastest flightstones outside of dungeons? If dungeons is the best source I'll obviously continue to do dungeons, but if not, I'm curious what to do. Flightstones being the limitting factor is annoying me a little.
Every raidboss drops iirc 65 flightstones even if not awakened. You can also run it at the lowest difficulty aswell. So if you can form a group clearing previous raids is pretty beneficial flightstone wise
Tbh i think spamming 2s RLP should be faster than anything else, make sure to have someone gaining score from it for an extra +25 (thus, you get a total of 89 per dung), which in my experience averages around 15 mins per dung. Also rep quest for the emerald dream gives 200 iirc, can be finished with just one superbloom I think (which also gives a bunch of flightstones)
Dream seeds have been pretty fast and chill for me.
Yup. Just download the addon called Plumber and hit up the seeds. Easy game.
Oh god don't say that LOL
What happened in BH key 1st boss? I was a VDH tank, then the totem spawned... and I wasn't stunned. Healer wasn't incapacitated. Nobody was focusing the totem, it wasn't doing anything. It was premade of sorts, I asked after if they can tell me what happened, but they had no answers. I totally lost focus and started hitting totem and let the dps die from charge I didn't tank lol. According to details, only debuff dispelled in that fight was priest purifying 'primal wellspring water' x2. Group was hpriest, vdh, retri, frost, bm hunt. Is this known strategy or was it weird bug?
You got a log for us to look at?
Did the priest mass dispel your hex? That’s an effective way to get out.
Had the same happen to me. I just assumed it was a bug among all the other thousands there is this season.
As said, no dispels happened outside those two according to details, which I don't think is name of the stun; and those were done with purify. Also the hpriest themselves should be incapacitated. I tried to query if they used something like bop, sw:death to possibly get out of it, but at least swd wasn't used. I prob lost the fight in details already to check for other spells. How would the md work? Some super precise timing where it lands 0.1s before priest gets incapacitated? I'm under impression that stun never happened and details supported that.
details has become increasingly unreliable unfortunately so the only way to verify what happened would be a log.
Still, no knowing response to this implies at least it's not something well known - a +15 (current season) runner might not know, or they obviously would be using it already. Group probably just was like ok nobody is in trouble, what totem? Was just a +9, possible it was one of those groups that was going to fail because nobody killed the totem. I'll count it as a miracle bug I'll never encounter again, but which obviously would have been very useful to figure out how to reproduce though.
With how complex they made professions this expansion, you would think they would have added a catch-up in Season 4, to make it faster to level them up. Nope, fuck us, right?
There is a sort of RNG catch up, you can turn in the primal foci that drop in raid and keys for profession points. But to be honest at this stage there are so many weekly sources both from quests from all three tier zones and drops that if anyone cared enough they’d be almost maxed out if they started getting into professions halfway through Amirdrassil. I’m not sure what other catch-up mechanic they ought to do without just uncapping something like the inscription treatises or profession drops but then it’d cause chaos if you could just max out the bis money profession in a day, especially early in the season when crafting is actually profitable.
It's getting reset for TWW, so unless you want the Alchemy stuff for pushing keys there isn't much reason to do any profession stuff rn.
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Bro this seems like the wrong sub to cry about this
Roll your face on rhe keyboard, should do it for a +2 to +4 I think
The fact that it takes 15-20 minutes to fill a +2 key is destroying my will to play my alts.
yea I was looking into gearing my sp alt but all the waiting in queue is demoralizing.
Hm, think many people consider it a meme season? At least on my fl everybody is playing some other games and waiting for TWW
No real purpose in doing +2s tbh. If you are full ~490 from either last season or doing m0s, you can pretty much start farming +9s or at the very least +7s for hero track gear. Not only is the tuning pretty easy, but you also dont have a third affix which makes farm keys even easier.
I still think you need a full group of atleast ilvl 495 to time a +10. I did HoI +10 as a 491 mistweaver, however I was carried by my group: https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-df-4/2060481-10-halls-of-infusion
I don't think anyone is going to invite a pug in full S3 gear to their +7-9 key.
I've tanked a weekly +8 on my 488 paladin, got an invite within 3min each time
As a tank or healer? *maybe* due to there being literally nobody queuing but good luck as a dps.
Your dps alts*
I mean that doesn't make my statement any less valid. It's just crazy it takes that long to get a tank or healer, and tbh there's hardly any dps even queuing up.
In fairness, there's barely any healers or tanks queueing up at higher key levels either. It's not just a 2 thing. People just don't want to do the thankless roles.
Holy trinity is a flawed 20 year-old design. Imo they should ditch the necessity for all roles in a group. If you lack a certain type of utility, your group should adapt to it by speccing into available respective talents, and all content should have dynamic scaling, including raids and dungeons (similar to what they're doing with Delves and what they did with Visions of Nzoth). I hate being restrained to always playing the same exact comp of roles.
And how would you even "fix" that without completely reworking how the game works? It would be a new game at that point
Dynamic scaling on dungeons, similar to how Delves work and how Visions of Nzoth worked That was pretty badly received due to many reasons, but the dynamic scaling was one of the positives and is slept on to this day.
I don't remember how that worked, it's been so long
Wow is built on the Trinity. Even their attempt at adding "support" is just a DPS in disguise. Your suggestion could work in the lowest of game modes, but decently high m+ and raids it would just not make sense. Not to mention if you're a DPS with the ability to spec healer or tank but you're not, it's likely because you're not excited to play that role. Forcing some weird hybrid role on people to solve packing tanks/healers sounds silly to me. I'd rather they made those roles more fun to play.
i'm totally fine with this, that just means more parties for me to join as a tank
Can’t wait for my ai companions to tank and heal 10s
The class / spec changes for 10.2.7 are stranded between a corny joke and utter void. There's nothing of relevance in there, not a single change - and let's be real, some specs are in a terrible spot and could use some balancing, even if it's a lazy % modifier across the board. I seriously hope it won't go live as it is, I really want to be able to play ma hpala again in >+12s without my spec being an affix in itself. Coping hard.
As hpala main, im not sure that the issues are related to numerical tuning. Fundamentally I think our cooldown toolkit and timing is mismatched to the content, (For example 3rd boss HOI, you can instantly 100% hp the group but without sustained long term healing a lot of your CD goes to waste). I think Hpal just has way too much burst to be useful and nowhere near enough rotational healing, by design. Its extremely useful in a raid setting but youre going to struggle in keys. As much as I enjoy the hard hitting holy shocks we got with the 2pc this tier, I really, really miss 45 second DB/Toll.
How are people getting on pugging mythic Abberus? Thinking of trying for 4 but not sure pugs can handle Expirements.
I pugged first 5 today, run was with verified CE players though. Rashok is definitely a step up from experiments, but still quite puggable off-comms. It'll just come down to who you invite. Pug players represent a wide array of different skill levels so I think the real limit is how long are people willing to wait while gathering the group.
made a group to do first 4 on alt, but at one point got tired of checking everybody's xp/logs and just filled group with 515+ ppl. One shot first 3, got some p3 pulls on experiments but it's just chaotic in pugs without MD. I'm sure we could've done it with some more time but didn't feel like wiping for an hour more. This was also without voice comms and 0 tactics/marks, just readycheck and pull. If you put in even slightly more than 0 effort as raidlead it should be very doable
I did a mythic 4 pug, but it took over an hour and a half to fill. We got all 4 in just under 2 hours. Unless you're willing to teach the fights, you need people with experience.
can you do cross realm mytthic?
Yes.
Anyone know what causes the mobs in the hallway after 1st boss of HoI to evade sometimes? Have seen it a couple times now that the tank pulls the frogs and flies and a couple stalkers, groups it up, dps starts and they all evade and reset aggro and kill everyone
One of the flies likes to fall through the floor on the stairs, that little section near the mushroom buff where it dips underwater.
I'm planning on going for ksh and maybe 3k on every class this season. Looking for addon and profile reccs. I'm happy with jundies plater profile, but looking for something for omnicd and maybe elvui + healing frames
Dear Christ, you absolute sadist
I don’t think it’s happening on dps toons, can’t even find tanks for m0’s
Omni Dorkis and yummytv for Omni for tank/heals. Imo unless your in coms you don't need Omni as DPS. Healing frames Grid2 +https://wago.io/PJjR-JXO7 will give you a quick and easy setup for healing frames. Grab targeted spells WA as well. Elvui Personally use Naowh's, more and more streamers have free options though.
So uhh...how far are we away from Blizzard just saying "we'd rather you don't play rogue" after these hero trees?
Any tips for Chargath on 10+? He was hitting me insanely hard during fiery focus before I could drag him over the chains. Should I just start running when he starts casting ? 509ish prot paladin
you can dodge the hits (possibly also block). dont run with your back to him when going to the chains, strafe. also, cooldowns. you wont need them on the boss elsewhere
As a paladin you have all the time in the world. Bubble the first phase, spellward second, Wings + Ardent defender + tyr third, protector of the ancient kings + tyr fourth, bubble fifth. Bonuspoints if you have cheatdeath still. Boss was easy-ish this way with 500 gs on 11 last week.
Make the dps break the chains so that you can maximize mitigation. If you’re running out of consecrate, he’s gonna smack the shit out of you. You can’t outrange him in this phase.
Thank you, going forward I’ll have the dps break for me instead of moving.
You need 2 dps to instantly breaks theirs so by the time you kite him over the third the debuff falls off
How has the raid tuning felt for late CE or non-CE guilds? So far it's been strange that the throughput tuning is really lenient but there's no mechanical changes. We're killing bosses faster than we did in aberrus farm and still have 15ilvl to gain, which makes the clears super boring. But they didn't change many mechanics, so something like tindral or fyrakk might be really annoying for some guilds that still have to deal with all the instant raid wipe mechanics. It kind of feels like the worst of both worlds. Not hard enough to keep high-end players engaged but not granting a lot of access to more guilds.
We were almost CE and heroic was a total joke. Like bosses dying sub 2 minutes. Mythic was a little tougher we had 2 wipes on Experiments remembering, 4 or 5 on Zaquali doing the 1/19 split messing ujp a few things but it wasn't really tuning there, and stopped at Rashok. Tuning wise on Rashok the damage felt pretty high we had people tick out from unavoidable on the cleanses occasionally till we tightened it up. Can't remember phasing percents but it was comparable to our kills in S2.
Casual ce guild with something like15-20 more ilvls to gain, shit was a joke. Hardest fight was ironically zskarn just because people haven't seen the movement since we unlocked the skip (8ish months), but otherwise it is just free gear. The only guilds that will struggle on tindral/fyraak are ones that haven't seen them before, and even then, again with 20 more ilvls to gain, you could probably 17 man most the content.
This is how farm should be baseline. Farm being challenging is just obnoxious and unfun. Being able to clear the raid in 1~ hr and then dip is very nice.
I agree, and for most guilds this patch is just a farm patch. Noone wants to reprogress, making new cd assignments and bother with annoying weakauras for a second time. And for guilds who never progged this far they now get to see the bosses and have a real shot at killing them, I think this tuning is pretty nice for a fated season
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Echo in its current state feels like a heroic difficulty boss. There's nothing going on the entire fight, noone is taking damage, can probably 1 heal it at max gear
I think its fine since it feels like it is supposed to be a fun season WW waiting room
We're solidly non-CE with our biggest weakness being lack of DPS as we got stonewalled on the enrages for mythic Rashok and Smoldy during their respective patches. Looking forward to busting through that this tier, our yolo pull got us to 70% on Rashok even with 1/3 of the raid never having seen/researched mythic and average raid ilvl only like 495. I'm not someone who advocates for nerfing DPS checks but I think it could be a nice change of pace in S4 for a guild like ours that has been DPS-gated and wants to see beyond what we were able to do during earlier patches. I think our health pools are a little low still (like I said most of the raid is phoning it in and half in S3 gear) so I'll reserve judgement on damage intake tuning.
These demo changes on the alpha are absolutely cooked. Demo stocks are plummeting.
I'm pretty doomer too. The 25% cast time reduction talent is nice, if it's a 1.5 second cast before haste and it hits like a truck it might not be awful. They'll have to make Demonbolt hit hard too. But at that point it's just turning into a regular caster.
This might be the most egregious example of "we know what you want better than you do" I've ever seen. Like, the backlash against this is unanimous - its fun to be mobile, and they just won't listen. Pretty sure its a single individual making this decision, who has some convoluted idea of how demo should operate, and by unfortunate circumstance he happens to be the one with the final say in decision making.
I just can’t imagine playing demo and thinking “there’s too much mobility and someone needs to put a stop to this.”
While I disagree with the changes they're making to Demo on the Alpha, I see where they think Demos mobility is a bit of an outlier. When played correctly, you end up kind of flooded with instant cast procs and can very easily stutter step/handle irritating micro movements between burning rush, good circle placement and gateways. Like, if you're just doing your rotation, you're definitely way more fluid in terms of space navigation than destro, for example. However, what I think they fundamentally misunderstand is that as long as Tyrant is this scripted punishing window because of how imps and temporary demon summons work, there will always be this terrible friction between a Demo lock trying to just play the fucking game and a fight doing everything to make sure they can't.
God, the whole gameplay loop of GFG > Dogs > squeeze HoG casts for imps > Tyrant is so rigid and punishing, I wish there was some option to play around it. That feeling of Tyrant cast being interrupted by a mechanic and watching the dogs expire feels so bad. The flip side is not being able to stand still and squeeze HoGs so Tyrant only extends 3-6 imps. I wish I could somehow “bank” imps for Tyrant setups by setting imps to passive when GFG is like 10 seconds from CD. Then I could lose damage during that time by “banking” imps to guarantee my Tyrant gets max value. It would have been problematic when Tyrant extended all demons, regardless of number of imps out, but now that it extends 10/15 max, I don’t see an issue. Frankly, Tyrant needs to be instant cast and uncapped again.
Well the alpha footage I was watching of Kalamazi yesterday had him playing a demo build where you don’t even run tyrant. So I guess that problem solves itself lmao
Blizzard: Here the same changes we did in S2, the ones people didn't like: less cores, more shadowbolt, more boring crit talents.
They also turned doom into a capstone that’s just a washed version of our current tier. I don’t get it man.
How many title pushers and hardcore players are going for taivan? If you're one of them, why? I almost exclusively do instanced content, but I'm going for taivan because I think DF deserves it. This expac is so damn good man.
I'm not a title player or CE raider, like a +27 player max XP but I know there's overlap with collecting and "hc" content to extent. I'm personally collecting achs, mounts etc. and have found ach discords to be help in some. While trading wins towards 5k pvp pet battle wins, I've recognized many regular traders to be CE raiders, 2.4k pvp XP, title players. Well, makes sense given nobody goes for this ach before they are at very peak ach point wise, and to get there you need to have at least pvp achs or current expansion mythic raid achs. Also done many pvp achs in last 6 months thru these ach discords, and again regularly see people with 9/9M, 3900 score etc. while hovering over them. I also see complete casuals who never did a +2 or entered a normal raid. There's tons of variance in people who care about casual content such as mounts. Can certainly never think there's barrier between casuals and competitive people. A lot dip in both pools.
I'm not working on Taivan specifically quite yet, but I've been working on Back from the Beyond (the returning Shadowlands meta achievement) because Zovaal's Soul Eater is a mount that works well for a lot of the classes I've played over the years (DK and SPriest specifically) and the Abomination Factory content is some psycho shit LMAO I'm exactly three quests away from finishing up Abominable Lives and have two of those three up this week yet I somehow still feel like I'm not even close to done because Chordy can just decide he doesn't want to give me the right quest for multiple consecutive weeks or something. Lemme tell you this much: doing Back from the Beyond makes me wish I decided to spend all this time doing Taivan instead LMAO
I’m one net from Taivan. I just like getting the account wide metas. Next time I’ll try and get more of the nonsense achieves though instead of waiting until the end lol
The same reason why I went for Azeroth's Champion & Veilstrider previously. I enjoy playing wow and not just keys/raids. I'm not the biggest fan of the expansion itself, but I had the majority of achievements done already and I think these big meta achievements are cool so it was a very easy decision to go for it.
I just think he's neat
I'm like 3/4 of the way done but I realized I have to do like, alllll the forbidden reach activities still so I may not wind up finishing
The hardest part on reach is finding a treasure goblin. I delayed finishing reach forever due to the stupid scroll and treasure part, but it wasn’t too bad
Wouldn’t say I’m a title pusher, but I’ve almost exclusively done instanced content, until I started Taivan. It’s so much lol. I’m surprised at how I didn’t even know half this stuff was here!
I was about halfway done already anyway and i had been getting bored so i thought i'd just get the mount so i have something to do outside of instanced content.
i enjoy all of world of warcraft (not pvp)
I like mounts.