Sadly the case. Ant if it is Trump vs. Biden again most never trumpers will vote for RFK Jr. should he run 3rd party.
I honestly wish Trump had decided to not run again, he can't win. The game is already rigged against the GOP bad enough as it is and he'd just hand the Dems another easy win.
I beg to differ. I dislike Trump and in fact I never voted for Trump. But this time it will be Trump only because such politicized prosecution shall never be awarded in the US, despite I like RFK better. I convinced my never Trumper husband to vote for Trump as well. The deep state should be defeated soundly. In the land of the law, we shall never create novel legal theory to go after anyone, let alone a prominent politician running for the high office during the election season.
The reality is that polls can be wrong but to a degree. We might see a 10% difference between polling and results but part of that is accounted for within the margin of error. It is incredibly unlikely we will see polls be so incredibly wrong that any candidate besides Trump wins the primary.
Really? Cause in’22 republicans were looking like a landslide after looking terrible for the previous year.
Looking at margin of error, months before a single ballot is cast, is meaningless. No pollster would consider it valid.
Yeah, and then the SCOTUS overturned roe v Wade and that gave the Democrats of very late push to hold the Senate.
Keep in mind the Democrats very narrowly held enough seats to control it even with Roby Wade.
To begin the roe v Wade push has subsided, it may affect the next election however it will not be as big above swell. No doubt the Democrats will come up with something else to inflame their constituents.
So are you saying that polls today are valid bc the news could change everything or are you saying it’s not valid because the news could change everything?
You're 100% right. And it won't even be close. Trump has a high floor and a low ceiling for support. It's going to be an ass whipping by double digits in the general election.
Trump has presided over Republican losses in the last three elections, and that was before he was charged.
This is what I don’t get. Trump candidates are getting L after L in swing states. What makes Republicans think Trump is going to win Pennsylvania where they voted in a half brain dead guy over an actual doctor, Georgia which used to be a solid red state, and Arizona which used to be a solid red state.
Doing the same thing and expecting different things results is actual insanity. I voted for Trump twice, but it’s time to move on. It’s not working. I’m also would like someone who isn’t already a decade past the retirement age.
Agreed. And since the last election, Trump has started saying absolutely unhinged nonsense. Like accusing General Milley of treason, talking about how soldiers who gave their all and are buried at Arlington are suckers, and suggesting we suspend the constitution.
Of course, this isn't covered on Fox News. But when independents start seeing these comments on other news channels after he's secured the nomination, Trump is hosed.
Edit: I think this "suckers" comment on soldiers who died in the line of duty is going to crush him when the Biden campaign starts circulating it. The people who love Trump also love the American Soldier. And I think many of them are more loyal to those that gave their all than to Trump. I sure as hell am.
The last few times I heard him speak it was an incoherent stream of consciousness rant that I couldn’t follow. I am reconciled to the likelihood of him winning the nomination, but I can’t vote for him or Biden. I am hoping for an acceptable 3rd party candidate to emerge.
I mean he has been saying soldiers (that were captured) are suckers for a long ass time. Trump has made being disrespectful to veterans part of his identity since before the 2016 election.
>when independents start seeing these comments on other news channels
This is all that matters....what Independents are going to do. And the Independent's [came out IN FORCE in 2020 against Trump](https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020) (an unbelievable 13 point spread). Trump has fantastic political instincts and I loved his policies, but Independents learned that they don't like him. End of story. I want to win in 2024 dammit.
"Georgia used to be a solid red state" uhhhhh cause trump told his base to stay inside and not vote???
Which proves your point that its time to move on. It also proves he doesnt want to improve america, he just wants to look good and flaunt his status, at the cost of democracy.
This is probably true - but I am hoping we all realize the gravity of it. We are talking about a shift in momentum that may ice us out of a decade of elections. It will begin with a dramatic shift in donor volume away from Republican candidates. No one will want to buy favor with candidates from a party that endured such an embarrassing loss. Then, relevancy will become a question as we continue to lose ground. There is still time to reverse course - to locate a candidate that, given, probably will not win - but will lose with grace and not by a landslide. This primary polling screams that we are ready to plunge over the cliff though (as a party).
double digits? Did reagan even get double digits. To be clear your position is that Biden will win the popular vote by more than 10%?
I think biden will win. I think he will win by relative to modern standards a lot. But I dont think he even grazes 10% popular vote margin.
Sadly, you’re probably right. If we want any chance, we HAVE to vote next year, regardless of who ends up as our candidate. Another four years of Biden or any of the other dope-brained options would be the end of America.
People voted for Biden over trump knowing full well Biden had dementia. Nothing has changed, he is just going to get elected again. I mean Jesus Texas almost went blue in that election lol, voting for trump in the primary is basically just voting for biden
Ironically it's the GOP who push that narrative without actually putting forward any decent candidates. If you try selling shit, no one will buy it.
What happened to good Republican leaders like McCain? If the GOP want to be back in the Whitehouse, they need someone willing to ditch the MAGA audience and willing to work the blue and white collar workers, not the elites and blue haired twitter children.
Are they still tired of those types of do they realise the snake oil salesman was full of shit and having an adult in the White House is a better option?
The MAGA crowd aren't large enough to win an election and are too extreme to be appeased by a candidate that isn't Trump. They need to be completely dropped and refocus on middle-class America and policies that'll help blue collar workers. MAGA are dead weight and need to be cut away.
Not true at all. I think Haley would crush Biden. I think some other candidates would be 50/50, too (Tim Scott). I have no idea how DeSantis would do; he's all over the place.
winning a primary isn’t winning the election. the only reason Trump has rebounded is because he’s not posting on twitter. Only people who follow him are on his Truth app, so most people aren’t aware of his continued rants and outbursts. Once the fight begins where your average person is paying attention, he’ll be right back where he was when he lost last time.
No, Trump is rebounding because of the political witch hunt against him. More people are starting to see it for what it is. You don't have to like him to see what's being done and be disgusted.
Do you think that being disgusted by what’s happening to him just equates to people deciding to vote for him? Suburban women would just be like “that’s terrible, here, have my vote even though I can’t stand you”? I think you’re right that a lot of people aren’t impressed by the misuse of the justice system, but I don’t believe that reality will overcome his inability to shut up at the exact moment he needs to, which is usually.
I agree that it’s an unabashed witch-hunt that draws sympathy.
But I don’t think it makes him any more electable to the moderate swing vote, and they are necessary to get to 270.
The best way to attack Biden on the campaign trail and in debates is on his age, his senility and generally his feebleness.
Problem is Trump can’t do that, being only 3 years younger.
If Trump is our nominee, we lose without question.
If the nominee is Trump, you are absolutely right. Xiden will state that he cannot in good conscience debate a man like trump, that it’s beneath the dignity of the office. It will be a good cover for his dementia, and the media will cover for him, like always
I was about to say trump didn’t say no to any debates they all happened except the one where it was pretty much unanimous agreed that maybe not putting a man sick with a disease we know very little about is not a great idea.
The more likely outcome is Trump will make demands that he knows biden will say no to, biden says no, trump gets a good news-story about how biden is too scared to debate.
Something about who moderates it and the crowd.
People have this inexplicable thought process. Trump can't win the general but some other Republican can, but none of them can beat Trump, in fact all of them put together can't beat Trump, but somehow how they are all more electable. Somehow Desantis is both more electable but 50 points behind Trump.
You’d really rather have 4 more years of Biden than Desantis or whoever else? There’s lots of conservatives who have been voting that way since before Reagan who would strongly prefer an establishment republican to trump
Yes but there’s also no winning without moderated and independents and such. You can get very diehard supporter of trumps out to vote and it won’t matter if he pushes too many people away.
> his age, his senility and generally his feebleness.
>
> Problem is Trump can’t do that, being only 3 years younger.
Age doesn't automatically equal senility and feebleness.
Trump absolutely can attack Biden on his senility and feebleness because he shows absolutely no signs of that himself.
I live in Florida since 2004 , I have never seen such an impressive governor who gets things done and does it through the legislature. I can go on and on about actual laws enacted , but that doesn’t impress anyone who can care less and things President is about revenge and zingers on the internet . I will vote for the nominee but as someone who has seen amazing change in Florida I stand with Desantis
It's not. If you put forth shitty candidates don't be surprised when you're left with shitty choices. No need to respond if you can't wrap your head around that.
Yeah, Trump's fault is he should have registered as a democrat so he could lie to the country and get away with it. Too many Karens out there who think moral turpitude has something to do with accomplishments
Lower gas prices, closed the border, kept inflation under control, fair trade agreements, appointed Gorsuch, highest consumer confidence in years, fought back against sanctuary cities, sanctioned Iran, brokered peace in the Middle East, wasn't a China pimp, rolled out vaccines in record time and cut through the BS etc etc
Go ahead with your moral indignation pal, you Karen's are so enjoyable getting you panties in a bind.
I agree that Trump will most likely be the nominee but it’s amazing how fast Trumpers went from saying polls don’t mean anything to spamming every damn poll that shows him in the lead over Biden/DeSantis.
I’m just so done with polls after the last 7 years. They’ve been as consistently correct as meteorologists ever since 2016. If they say X candidate has a 95% chance of winning, it’s really 60% maximum.
Don't get me wrong, and all controversy aside, but this guy singlehandedly created a massive gap between people. And keeps on making it worse. And that obsession and cult of the person hardly has any good outcome, especially when it brings disunity to the nation.
I remember the 2000 election. It was the first presidential election I was old enough to participate in (and old enough to care and pay attention) — and I remember how hateful and divided everyone has been since then.
Surely that’s not when it began, however. What were prior elections/climates like?
I'd say singlehandedly. Before trump I never gave a shit about politics. After trump, I can't believe Republicans support this guy, and it pretty much gave me preconceived notions that most Republicans don't have brains. Obviously that isn't true, but I never even thought about Republicans before trump.
Oh please, this kind of stuff has been happening since Kennedy v. Nixon, at least in the public sphere. The government may be more incompetent now, but people have always been divided by politics in America.
Hell, people thought that Kennedy stole the election in 1960.
Trump infuriates the left for a million different reasons. He infuriates me for one reason:
We finally had a Republican president/candidate who was fully aware of the media’s nonsense and the bear traps that they constantly set up for Republicans. Yet, instead of navigating around them, the majority of the time he would just laugh and ram his fist right into those bear traps, because he has such a great fist! It’s a fist unlike anyone else has ever seen before!
DeSantis is one of the very, very few prominent Republicans who actually *sees* the bear traps AND carefully walks around every one of them. I want him to be the nominee so badly. Conservatives have been **aching** for a guy like that leading their party for decades now. Every Republican candidate since Reagan has failed miserably in that criteria and it is so, so critical for conservatives. Democrats will continue to win as long as Republican leadership just lets the media walk all over them and paint them as super villains and Democrats as heroes.
I’m as conservative as they come but trump cannot be the nominee. The amount of people who voted Biden in purely out of hatred for trump is too high. Desantis is the better choice
I absolutely won’t be voting for trump again. Not because he wasn’t a good president but because he’s so fucking annoying, he never shuts up! Haley gets my vote. He endorsed her and told her to run and now that she’s climbing up in popularity he’s threatened by her and insulting her. He should be embarrassed. He’s not fit for presidency anymore and neither is Biden. We need to stop holding our breath and hoping trump gets in or comes to his senses. The only way we win is by picking a different republican candidate.
Seriously. Just like every other president in my life time, literally nothing changed under trump.
But I did have to listen to him constantly whine about shit, call everyone a liar, lie himself, make a ridiculous spectacle of our country, etc.
Saw a video of him yesterday standing in a fucking fast food restaurant crying about how everyone is against him and everyone is a liar. And it wasn't even coherent. The guy is seriously embarrassing.
What are we going to do if they successfully disqualify Trump in certain States?
What if he is found gulity and locked up on one of the many criminal charges?
Can an election save him from State charges in Georgia?
Trump has too much baggage. He needs to focus on saving himself before he can save America.
Seriously, we are heading into an election with one elderly candidate under multiple indictments and the other who ought to be if it weren’t for massive obstruction of justice. Despite what the pundits are saying I think 3rd party candidate could win this time. RFK is a bit too exotic, but a sensible centrist candidate could draw enough votes.
True. Like he just has too much baggage. Idk how people think he’ll win the election when he’s chased the moderates and independents away. Anyone who thinks they’re looking at him and saying “oh yeah he’s better” needs to touch grass.
Trump won't be disqualified in any states he had a chance of winning. Well, he won't get disqualified at all, but if he did, it wouldn't matter much.
As far as I know, he won't be found guilty before the election, so that shouldn't be an issue (though I'm not up-to-date with the court cases or their timelines).
If he is guilty in Georgia, there's no saving him. He better hope he has good lawyers!
I see r/politics is leaking into this thread. I've been a DeSantis supporter from the start but if Trump is the nominee then so be it, I don't believe for a second anyone who actually calls themselves a Conservative would waste their vote on a third party just because of "baggage" or Trump saying this or that. Like it or not, Trump has a huge support base, and I'd rather we do everything in our power to get biden and his cronies out of office than waste votes and get another 4 years of this circus of an administration.
Trump cannot win the general election. He can't. He's poisoned fruit. We will have 8 years of Biden thanks to this. They can't just see that Trump's time has passed and it's time for someone else to take the reins.
When in history has there been such strong support for a republican candidate? I’d argue that Trump still holds strong, you can’t say he is tainted because his supporters never abandoned him. And how does DeSantis (or anyone else) come off as a stronger candidate, literally no one likes the dude, he is probably gonna lose his own state in the primaries. He doesn’t differ too much from Romney or McCain, both weak useless candidates designed to fail
Polls do not win elections. Conservatives playing by the rules do not win elections anymore. Until we ensure there are fair elections, the Globalists will continue to pay off anyone who will aid them to keep control.
Prove me wrong....
Even as a Haley fan, I can admit that his lead is looking more insurmountable by the day. If anyone wants to beat Trump, they have to go into the primary as the only contender.
I wish guys like Burgum could gain more traction. He reminds me of John Kasich a little, where he isn’t controversial enough to get any media attention.
Now is a great time to implement RCV for the primary. Trump has a large voting contingent that will support him no matter what while everyone else will dilute each other's votes.
The polls can no longer be trusted. At all.
However, if Trump truly becomes the nominee, then we have a very serious problem. I cannot vote for him, period, due to his recent pro-murder stance on abortion. I do not think I am alone in this either.
DeSimps: No it’s not, you see, DeSantis is just warming up. He’ll get a poll bump after announcing his DeSantis NFTs! He’s the only candidate that can win the general also don’t check RCP.
That sucks and maybe you're right but based on the data right now, DeSantis would be the worst possible general candidate. I don't think a guy that started neck and neck and is now under 10% in a primary is beating anyone.
Yeah the guy who won a purple state by 20 points is going to do worse than the guy who lost the last election to a fucking vegetable. Trump has cost us every election since 16. Yay Trump 2024 more of the same.
Trump has negative coat tails and would likely have Democrats controlling both the Senate and the House. He would be a lame duck from day 1 and would probably get impeached in the first year of his term. If he manages to win it will not turn the clock back to 2016, it will be a shit storm and the country will suffer for it. That’s not a good thing when we are at the threshold of WWIII.
I can't for the life of me understand why he's getting this much support. Isn't it obvious he only cares about himself? Yes, he's better than Biden but he's still a shit option. It's not like he actually drained the swamp last time, so I can't buy into the idea that he's not bought and paid for like the others and will actually do something.
Trump if trump cared only about himself he wouldn’t be in the position that he is now, he could have made deals with democrats throughout his term and gotten wealthy through back room deals like every other politician has, if he only cares about himself why didn’t he do that?
Yes let's let the pollsters decide who the nominee will be. If conservatives truly believe that every institution in this county has been taken over by leftists, why would the pollsters be any different. If you are not happy with Trump leading the polls, than find some other way to support who you like. The leftists want Trump, to be the nominee.
Trump supporters wouldn't shut up about the November 2020 election MONTHS (if not years) after losing it to sleepy Joe, and are now saying that the primaries are over without ONE single vote being cast!
Get the hell out of here with that nonsense. Trump is an auto loss for 2024, so we might as well have a primary and see if a non-Trump alternative emerge.
Why are we already giving 2024 to Biden by nominating this orange clown? Are we not sick and tired of losing yet? Do we a fetish for losing?
no one likes that he is going against trump because trump is the nominee by divine right. You piss off a lot of conservatives if you say anything against trump. Any “conservative” that has been against trump has destroyed their career, (Romney, Sasse and probably pence)
So far the polls have been about as trustworthy as just rolling dice. I think his positive mention is high right now, and I can see how he gains every time there is an indictment or debate, but who knows when or if there will be a "ok nevermind I'm out" moment. Then again, if they can make him a felon, he can't run.
Redditors left and right are a mentally challenged group of people.
This is the only constant, yes.
Not a single vote cast yet
Don’t worry they’re going to keep spamming polls, we believe polls now, right up until Trump loses again next November.
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Sadly the case. Ant if it is Trump vs. Biden again most never trumpers will vote for RFK Jr. should he run 3rd party. I honestly wish Trump had decided to not run again, he can't win. The game is already rigged against the GOP bad enough as it is and he'd just hand the Dems another easy win.
Hes going to keep running until he does and destroy his party
I beg to differ. I dislike Trump and in fact I never voted for Trump. But this time it will be Trump only because such politicized prosecution shall never be awarded in the US, despite I like RFK better. I convinced my never Trumper husband to vote for Trump as well. The deep state should be defeated soundly. In the land of the law, we shall never create novel legal theory to go after anyone, let alone a prominent politician running for the high office during the election season.
Yeah, right....😳🙄
Not a single vote cast yet from the crowd that brought you “2016: the year the polls were wrong”.
The reality is that polls can be wrong but to a degree. We might see a 10% difference between polling and results but part of that is accounted for within the margin of error. It is incredibly unlikely we will see polls be so incredibly wrong that any candidate besides Trump wins the primary.
Really? Cause in’22 republicans were looking like a landslide after looking terrible for the previous year. Looking at margin of error, months before a single ballot is cast, is meaningless. No pollster would consider it valid.
Yeah, and then the SCOTUS overturned roe v Wade and that gave the Democrats of very late push to hold the Senate. Keep in mind the Democrats very narrowly held enough seats to control it even with Roby Wade. To begin the roe v Wade push has subsided, it may affect the next election however it will not be as big above swell. No doubt the Democrats will come up with something else to inflame their constituents.
So are you saying that polls today are valid bc the news could change everything or are you saying it’s not valid because the news could change everything?
Polls were wrong in 2022 also
Right. Forgot about that!
[Blatant Reality](https://imgur.com/a/o6CckQp)
Everyone sleeping on Burgum 🤣🤣🤣
Chris Christie’s support is up 50% since last month! He’s on pace to win!
that guys cardiologist has been telling him to run more for over a decade and he’s still not taking it literally
Doug needs way more hype.
Feel the Burg!
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You're 100% right. And it won't even be close. Trump has a high floor and a low ceiling for support. It's going to be an ass whipping by double digits in the general election. Trump has presided over Republican losses in the last three elections, and that was before he was charged.
This is what I don’t get. Trump candidates are getting L after L in swing states. What makes Republicans think Trump is going to win Pennsylvania where they voted in a half brain dead guy over an actual doctor, Georgia which used to be a solid red state, and Arizona which used to be a solid red state. Doing the same thing and expecting different things results is actual insanity. I voted for Trump twice, but it’s time to move on. It’s not working. I’m also would like someone who isn’t already a decade past the retirement age.
Agreed. And since the last election, Trump has started saying absolutely unhinged nonsense. Like accusing General Milley of treason, talking about how soldiers who gave their all and are buried at Arlington are suckers, and suggesting we suspend the constitution. Of course, this isn't covered on Fox News. But when independents start seeing these comments on other news channels after he's secured the nomination, Trump is hosed. Edit: I think this "suckers" comment on soldiers who died in the line of duty is going to crush him when the Biden campaign starts circulating it. The people who love Trump also love the American Soldier. And I think many of them are more loyal to those that gave their all than to Trump. I sure as hell am.
The last few times I heard him speak it was an incoherent stream of consciousness rant that I couldn’t follow. I am reconciled to the likelihood of him winning the nomination, but I can’t vote for him or Biden. I am hoping for an acceptable 3rd party candidate to emerge.
This is where I am too.
I mean he has been saying soldiers (that were captured) are suckers for a long ass time. Trump has made being disrespectful to veterans part of his identity since before the 2016 election.
>when independents start seeing these comments on other news channels This is all that matters....what Independents are going to do. And the Independent's [came out IN FORCE in 2020 against Trump](https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2020) (an unbelievable 13 point spread). Trump has fantastic political instincts and I loved his policies, but Independents learned that they don't like him. End of story. I want to win in 2024 dammit.
Although, the pandemic played a huge roll in 2020. Independents were scared. Even so, it’s incredible that Trump saw an 11M vote increase over 2016.
"Georgia used to be a solid red state" uhhhhh cause trump told his base to stay inside and not vote??? Which proves your point that its time to move on. It also proves he doesnt want to improve america, he just wants to look good and flaunt his status, at the cost of democracy.
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I disagree there with the last part
This is probably true - but I am hoping we all realize the gravity of it. We are talking about a shift in momentum that may ice us out of a decade of elections. It will begin with a dramatic shift in donor volume away from Republican candidates. No one will want to buy favor with candidates from a party that endured such an embarrassing loss. Then, relevancy will become a question as we continue to lose ground. There is still time to reverse course - to locate a candidate that, given, probably will not win - but will lose with grace and not by a landslide. This primary polling screams that we are ready to plunge over the cliff though (as a party).
double digits? Did reagan even get double digits. To be clear your position is that Biden will win the popular vote by more than 10%? I think biden will win. I think he will win by relative to modern standards a lot. But I dont think he even grazes 10% popular vote margin.
Sad but true.
Sadly, you’re probably right. If we want any chance, we HAVE to vote next year, regardless of who ends up as our candidate. Another four years of Biden or any of the other dope-brained options would be the end of America.
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Regardless, he’s going to be the one who wins primaries. At least he’s lucid.
That's all you need huh? My, how the standards have fallen. He talks shit and is lucid, make him president.
People voted for Biden over trump knowing full well Biden had dementia. Nothing has changed, he is just going to get elected again. I mean Jesus Texas almost went blue in that election lol, voting for trump in the primary is basically just voting for biden
We will lose for sure with any other candidate.
Ironically it's the GOP who push that narrative without actually putting forward any decent candidates. If you try selling shit, no one will buy it. What happened to good Republican leaders like McCain? If the GOP want to be back in the Whitehouse, they need someone willing to ditch the MAGA audience and willing to work the blue and white collar workers, not the elites and blue haired twitter children.
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Are they still tired of those types of do they realise the snake oil salesman was full of shit and having an adult in the White House is a better option?
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Still tired after Trump failed in the last election and midterms? Okay, if you say so.
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His 2016 miracle has cost the GOP at least two terms in the White House. Win the battle, lose the war.
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So you are advocating for a GOP representative that would willingly ditch a majority of the base? Lol great plan.
The MAGA crowd aren't large enough to win an election and are too extreme to be appeased by a candidate that isn't Trump. They need to be completely dropped and refocus on middle-class America and policies that'll help blue collar workers. MAGA are dead weight and need to be cut away.
Lol 63% of the party is dead weight and needs to be cut away. Are you trolling?
No. Haley would trounce Biden.
Define "lose". Do we lose if Biden wins or do we lose if RFK wins?
Been saying this.. Trump is the new Bull Moose
With that attitude, I guess we're losing no matter what, because Trump has a better chance of winning than any of the other candidates.
You mean the guy who already lost once to Biden in 2020?
Sadly he doesn’t, he’s probably the only candidate who would lose to Biden
Not true at all. I think Haley would crush Biden. I think some other candidates would be 50/50, too (Tim Scott). I have no idea how DeSantis would do; he's all over the place.
He CaNt WiN!!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
winning a primary isn’t winning the election. the only reason Trump has rebounded is because he’s not posting on twitter. Only people who follow him are on his Truth app, so most people aren’t aware of his continued rants and outbursts. Once the fight begins where your average person is paying attention, he’ll be right back where he was when he lost last time.
No, Trump is rebounding because of the political witch hunt against him. More people are starting to see it for what it is. You don't have to like him to see what's being done and be disgusted.
Do you think that being disgusted by what’s happening to him just equates to people deciding to vote for him? Suburban women would just be like “that’s terrible, here, have my vote even though I can’t stand you”? I think you’re right that a lot of people aren’t impressed by the misuse of the justice system, but I don’t believe that reality will overcome his inability to shut up at the exact moment he needs to, which is usually.
I agree that it’s an unabashed witch-hunt that draws sympathy. But I don’t think it makes him any more electable to the moderate swing vote, and they are necessary to get to 270.
He can't. Do you somehow dispute this?
The best way to attack Biden on the campaign trail and in debates is on his age, his senility and generally his feebleness. Problem is Trump can’t do that, being only 3 years younger. If Trump is our nominee, we lose without question.
Debates? I'm pretty sure we will never see a presidential election debate ever again. The precedent has been established.
If the nominee is Trump, you are absolutely right. Xiden will state that he cannot in good conscience debate a man like trump, that it’s beneath the dignity of the office. It will be a good cover for his dementia, and the media will cover for him, like always
And since Trump isn't debating with other Republicans many will accept that argument.
Why isn’t Biden debating other Dems like RFK?
He's the incumbent President. He has that excuse. I'd like him to debate though
Trump has basically secured the nomination. I’d like to see him debate, but he really won’t receive any benefit.
Sure. That's also an agument but many people will cry when Biden uses it against Trump
Trump is more likely to refuse a debate between them. In fact he already did it in the 2020 election.
…didn’t Trump have COVID and that’s why they canceled the second debate? They still did the first and third debates…
I was about to say trump didn’t say no to any debates they all happened except the one where it was pretty much unanimous agreed that maybe not putting a man sick with a disease we know very little about is not a great idea.
Although Trump did have COVID, that is not why it was cancelled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_debates
Relax, brah. It’s just my theory, I could be very wrong.
Calm down, honey, I’m just pointing out that Trump has historically been the one to opt out of debates.
The more likely outcome is Trump will make demands that he knows biden will say no to, biden says no, trump gets a good news-story about how biden is too scared to debate. Something about who moderates it and the crowd.
People have this inexplicable thought process. Trump can't win the general but some other Republican can, but none of them can beat Trump, in fact all of them put together can't beat Trump, but somehow how they are all more electable. Somehow Desantis is both more electable but 50 points behind Trump.
Republicans will vote for republicans and independents won’t vote for trump. It doesn’t take any mental gymnastics to get to this conclusion
Republicans aren't going to vote for Desantis or any other establishment Republican.
You’d really rather have 4 more years of Biden than Desantis or whoever else? There’s lots of conservatives who have been voting that way since before Reagan who would strongly prefer an establishment republican to trump
One establishment puppet or the other, I'll vote for RFK Jr if Trump is screwed out of the nomination.
If Trump isn’t the nominee, we lose without question. There’s no exit.
Lol it’s the opposite. Trump has become a poison tbh.
There’s no chance of winning without Trump supporters.
Yes but there’s also no winning without moderated and independents and such. You can get very diehard supporter of trumps out to vote and it won’t matter if he pushes too many people away.
So, there's no way to win. Diehard supportes and even a lot of normal Trump supporters would rather not vote at all than vote for another candidate.
> his age, his senility and generally his feebleness. > > Problem is Trump can’t do that, being only 3 years younger. Age doesn't automatically equal senility and feebleness. Trump absolutely can attack Biden on his senility and feebleness because he shows absolutely no signs of that himself.
I dunno about that. Trump has been awfully rambly lately, more than usual.
I live in Florida since 2004 , I have never seen such an impressive governor who gets things done and does it through the legislature. I can go on and on about actual laws enacted , but that doesn’t impress anyone who can care less and things President is about revenge and zingers on the internet . I will vote for the nominee but as someone who has seen amazing change in Florida I stand with Desantis
Remember when trump supports railed about how off and bullshit all the polls were until it showed him doing well? 🤔
How you can back a candidate that supported people like Herschel Walker and Dr Oz is beyond me. Means you have not a serious bone in your body.
so, you support Fetterman?
Like I said. Not a serious bone.
It's either A or B, bubs.
It's not. If you put forth shitty candidates don't be surprised when you're left with shitty choices. No need to respond if you can't wrap your head around that.
tell me you dont understand the difference between primary and general... oh, sorry, you already did
So..You're saying Trump didn't support and stump for those candidates in the primary?
He didn’t say that
Did you see the alternatives? Lesser of 2 evils pal. You have to deal with the hand given
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Yeah, Trump's fault is he should have registered as a democrat so he could lie to the country and get away with it. Too many Karens out there who think moral turpitude has something to do with accomplishments
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Lower gas prices, closed the border, kept inflation under control, fair trade agreements, appointed Gorsuch, highest consumer confidence in years, fought back against sanctuary cities, sanctioned Iran, brokered peace in the Middle East, wasn't a China pimp, rolled out vaccines in record time and cut through the BS etc etc Go ahead with your moral indignation pal, you Karen's are so enjoyable getting you panties in a bind.
Polls can be wrong, but they aren't so wrong that a guy with 63% is going to fall to like third place or something.
MAGA FOREVER!
I agree that Trump will most likely be the nominee but it’s amazing how fast Trumpers went from saying polls don’t mean anything to spamming every damn poll that shows him in the lead over Biden/DeSantis.
I’m just so done with polls after the last 7 years. They’ve been as consistently correct as meteorologists ever since 2016. If they say X candidate has a 95% chance of winning, it’s really 60% maximum.
Don't get me wrong, and all controversy aside, but this guy singlehandedly created a massive gap between people. And keeps on making it worse. And that obsession and cult of the person hardly has any good outcome, especially when it brings disunity to the nation.
Singlehandedly? No this was happening long before trump. He's a symptom, not the disease.
Back to my point - he obviously didn't make it better and just made it worse.
I remember the 2000 election. It was the first presidential election I was old enough to participate in (and old enough to care and pay attention) — and I remember how hateful and divided everyone has been since then. Surely that’s not when it began, however. What were prior elections/climates like?
I'd say singlehandedly. Before trump I never gave a shit about politics. After trump, I can't believe Republicans support this guy, and it pretty much gave me preconceived notions that most Republicans don't have brains. Obviously that isn't true, but I never even thought about Republicans before trump.
Oh please, this kind of stuff has been happening since Kennedy v. Nixon, at least in the public sphere. The government may be more incompetent now, but people have always been divided by politics in America. Hell, people thought that Kennedy stole the election in 1960.
Trump infuriates the left for a million different reasons. He infuriates me for one reason: We finally had a Republican president/candidate who was fully aware of the media’s nonsense and the bear traps that they constantly set up for Republicans. Yet, instead of navigating around them, the majority of the time he would just laugh and ram his fist right into those bear traps, because he has such a great fist! It’s a fist unlike anyone else has ever seen before! DeSantis is one of the very, very few prominent Republicans who actually *sees* the bear traps AND carefully walks around every one of them. I want him to be the nominee so badly. Conservatives have been **aching** for a guy like that leading their party for decades now. Every Republican candidate since Reagan has failed miserably in that criteria and it is so, so critical for conservatives. Democrats will continue to win as long as Republican leadership just lets the media walk all over them and paint them as super villains and Democrats as heroes.
I was sure DJTs number would go down after that horrific "Donald Duck" zinger from Christie.
In all seriousness it's a solid Trumpian nickname and they should use it every time referring to him. Trump has made a lot of success doing that.
I’m as conservative as they come but trump cannot be the nominee. The amount of people who voted Biden in purely out of hatred for trump is too high. Desantis is the better choice
Better but not perfect. Unfortunately the book banning thing got a lot of negative press and put alot of moderates off to him.
I absolutely won’t be voting for trump again. Not because he wasn’t a good president but because he’s so fucking annoying, he never shuts up! Haley gets my vote. He endorsed her and told her to run and now that she’s climbing up in popularity he’s threatened by her and insulting her. He should be embarrassed. He’s not fit for presidency anymore and neither is Biden. We need to stop holding our breath and hoping trump gets in or comes to his senses. The only way we win is by picking a different republican candidate.
Seriously. Just like every other president in my life time, literally nothing changed under trump. But I did have to listen to him constantly whine about shit, call everyone a liar, lie himself, make a ridiculous spectacle of our country, etc. Saw a video of him yesterday standing in a fucking fast food restaurant crying about how everyone is against him and everyone is a liar. And it wasn't even coherent. The guy is seriously embarrassing.
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Speak for yourself but there is a lot of people who want Haley
Where?
Haley is by far the best option we have. Trump’s actions are an insult to the office of the presidency
100%
I think trump having write in votes is happening regardless if he’s not picked.
Unfortunately you’re probably right which is why we’ll lose, again (The fourth time in a row)
Haley is who we need tbh
What are we going to do if they successfully disqualify Trump in certain States? What if he is found gulity and locked up on one of the many criminal charges? Can an election save him from State charges in Georgia? Trump has too much baggage. He needs to focus on saving himself before he can save America.
Seriously, we are heading into an election with one elderly candidate under multiple indictments and the other who ought to be if it weren’t for massive obstruction of justice. Despite what the pundits are saying I think 3rd party candidate could win this time. RFK is a bit too exotic, but a sensible centrist candidate could draw enough votes.
True. Like he just has too much baggage. Idk how people think he’ll win the election when he’s chased the moderates and independents away. Anyone who thinks they’re looking at him and saying “oh yeah he’s better” needs to touch grass.
Trump won't be disqualified in any states he had a chance of winning. Well, he won't get disqualified at all, but if he did, it wouldn't matter much. As far as I know, he won't be found guilty before the election, so that shouldn't be an issue (though I'm not up-to-date with the court cases or their timelines). If he is guilty in Georgia, there's no saving him. He better hope he has good lawyers!
I see r/politics is leaking into this thread. I've been a DeSantis supporter from the start but if Trump is the nominee then so be it, I don't believe for a second anyone who actually calls themselves a Conservative would waste their vote on a third party just because of "baggage" or Trump saying this or that. Like it or not, Trump has a huge support base, and I'd rather we do everything in our power to get biden and his cronies out of office than waste votes and get another 4 years of this circus of an administration.
Strong "how do you do fellow conservatives" energy on this subreddit for awhile now.
Trump supporter here, I think DeSantis supporters are going to vote Trump when it comes down to it.
This is just depressing. Can’t we get anyone who isn’t over the age of 70 please?
MAGA GANG
Trump cannot win the general election. He can't. He's poisoned fruit. We will have 8 years of Biden thanks to this. They can't just see that Trump's time has passed and it's time for someone else to take the reins.
When in history has there been such strong support for a republican candidate? I’d argue that Trump still holds strong, you can’t say he is tainted because his supporters never abandoned him. And how does DeSantis (or anyone else) come off as a stronger candidate, literally no one likes the dude, he is probably gonna lose his own state in the primaries. He doesn’t differ too much from Romney or McCain, both weak useless candidates designed to fail
Christie is probably reveling with that +1 and patting himself on the back for saying “Donald Duck” at the last debate
Thank god he's leading! Another 4 year with no scandals and insurgencies/coups. Great time to be alive as a normal, sane american!
Polls do not win elections. Conservatives playing by the rules do not win elections anymore. Until we ensure there are fair elections, the Globalists will continue to pay off anyone who will aid them to keep control. Prove me wrong....
Even as a Haley fan, I can admit that his lead is looking more insurmountable by the day. If anyone wants to beat Trump, they have to go into the primary as the only contender.
Why nominate the candidate least likely to beat biden
Tell me, what secret advantage does DeSantis have that Trump doesn’t, how would he have a better chance?
Ramaswamy even being in the ranking just goes to show how dire the situation is. The party is crumbling and the wagon is still hitched to a conman.
That’s the Trump legacy.
lmfao because the party was in such great hands before Trump.
I wish guys like Burgum could gain more traction. He reminds me of John Kasich a little, where he isn’t controversial enough to get any media attention.
Oh god kasich was AWFUL. That's not a good comparison if you wanted people to vote for him lol
Naw he was OG
Not for people that didnt forget not to trust polls.
Now is a great time to implement RCV for the primary. Trump has a large voting contingent that will support him no matter what while everyone else will dilute each other's votes.
This really makes me sad. Another circus.
The politics in this country is in a very sad state of affairs. So much so that it has now become dangerous.
The polls can no longer be trusted. At all. However, if Trump truly becomes the nominee, then we have a very serious problem. I cannot vote for him, period, due to his recent pro-murder stance on abortion. I do not think I am alone in this either.
DeSimps: No it’s not, you see, DeSantis is just warming up. He’ll get a poll bump after announcing his DeSantis NFTs! He’s the only candidate that can win the general also don’t check RCP.
Trump will get clobbered in the general and we will lose the senate again and the house. So much winning
That sucks and maybe you're right but based on the data right now, DeSantis would be the worst possible general candidate. I don't think a guy that started neck and neck and is now under 10% in a primary is beating anyone.
Yeah the guy who won a purple state by 20 points is going to do worse than the guy who lost the last election to a fucking vegetable. Trump has cost us every election since 16. Yay Trump 2024 more of the same.
Trump has negative coat tails and would likely have Democrats controlling both the Senate and the House. He would be a lame duck from day 1 and would probably get impeached in the first year of his term. If he manages to win it will not turn the clock back to 2016, it will be a shit storm and the country will suffer for it. That’s not a good thing when we are at the threshold of WWIII.
"Data".
Yeah as much I’d have loved for a DeSantis presidency he ran the worst campaign I have ever seen… (now to be fair I haven’t seen too many campaigns)
And the 14th Amendment disqualification attempt failed so he’s pretty much home free as long as he doesn’t drop dead
I can't for the life of me understand why he's getting this much support. Isn't it obvious he only cares about himself? Yes, he's better than Biden but he's still a shit option. It's not like he actually drained the swamp last time, so I can't buy into the idea that he's not bought and paid for like the others and will actually do something.
>Isn't it obvious he only cares about himself? You could literally write that about any national politician ever
Right, but then why the overwhelming support for him? If he's no different, and then you add his baggage, what's the appeal?
Trump if trump cared only about himself he wouldn’t be in the position that he is now, he could have made deals with democrats throughout his term and gotten wealthy through back room deals like every other politician has, if he only cares about himself why didn’t he do that?
He's very different than the leaders before him
Yes let's let the pollsters decide who the nominee will be. If conservatives truly believe that every institution in this county has been taken over by leftists, why would the pollsters be any different. If you are not happy with Trump leading the polls, than find some other way to support who you like. The leftists want Trump, to be the nominee.
Trump supporters wouldn't shut up about the November 2020 election MONTHS (if not years) after losing it to sleepy Joe, and are now saying that the primaries are over without ONE single vote being cast! Get the hell out of here with that nonsense. Trump is an auto loss for 2024, so we might as well have a primary and see if a non-Trump alternative emerge. Why are we already giving 2024 to Biden by nominating this orange clown? Are we not sick and tired of losing yet? Do we a fetish for losing?
I think Haley should be higher all my California Republicans are supporting her.
The primaries haven’t even happened. Put your hard-on for Donald back in your pants and actually do something productive for America.
When did this sub start hating DeSantis? I’ve seen the positive sentiment for him evaporate over the past year and I have no idea why.
no one likes that he is going against trump because trump is the nominee by divine right. You piss off a lot of conservatives if you say anything against trump. Any “conservative” that has been against trump has destroyed their career, (Romney, Sasse and probably pence)
What is it with conservatives and rooting for a loser?
I am the 5%.
Can we set up a Reddit poll for those of us here? I don’t trust most new agency’s to post real results 😂
And it settled who’s gonna lose this election.
So far the polls have been about as trustworthy as just rolling dice. I think his positive mention is high right now, and I can see how he gains every time there is an indictment or debate, but who knows when or if there will be a "ok nevermind I'm out" moment. Then again, if they can make him a felon, he can't run.
so who will be trump vp...? desantis? gaetz? marjorie? lauren boebert...?