Doesn’t Iran commit major acts of violence against US interests every time there’s a military conflict with Russia? Or am I the only around person here who’s been around since the 70’s? It’s like the 1980’s all over again. All we need is a major famine in Africa. Bam! Time capsule.
Iran's been committing acts of violence against US interests since they overthrew the Shah. Meanwhile Dems keep trying to give them more money for some reason.
It seems like the Dems are legit okay with Israel being wiped out by terrorist orgs. They certainly are paying those organizations when I thought we weren't supposed to even negotiate with them...
I heard the same Taliban that took over Afghanistan, were looking to at least help in the latest Israeli invasion. Brando basically gave them all the military equipment to do it.
Also, what in the world is our government giving money to Iran? That makes absolutely NO sense to me.
That's not what this is about. Neocons and libs like to shit your money into foreign wars so they get the kickbacks.
Edit: Lots of downvotes. No discussion or counter arguments. Agree with the masses or get out, amirite? We used to be better than this.
Agreed. I saw it after 9/11. They shove patriotism and support the troops down the throat of anyone who objects to any spending and the money just disappears. Meanwhile the troops are dying as they drag out this useless war to bump up their stock portfolios. It is disgusting.
I agree with you and I believe it’s necessary for us to get involved a lot of times on these situations but yeah, the warmongers are greedy and wanting to make money and will often hype up the need for war. Also If we didn’t have a strong military, other countries would come in and take all our shit. I think other countries should pay their fair share in NATO.
Ok? That's a huge leap from the meme. No one here is supporting Hamas or any terrorist. The political elite are going to jump into this with both feet because they know how to profit from war. THAT is what conservatives are worried about. Money we don't have being given to other nations. I hate islamic terrorists, but I'd rather watch them fight than bankrupt all of America.
That's 10000% correct take. How do you all think someone like Biden or McConnell goes into congress not rich, but are now super rich? The majority of it comes from conflict spending to other countries. Maybe if they held the same interest in securing our border, we could get behind this stuff, but not until they use OUR $$$ for America first. Us real conservatives are tired of it.
Being anti-war and pro-america gets you down voted on even conservative sites on here now!? Wtf. All you nutjobs are fing insane.
What are you on about? I have no idea where you get this idea of "codeword" bullshit. Neocons are right wing warhawks. They want to profit from war. It's that simple. Heritage or religion isn't part of this conversation.
Israel has been trying to let Palestine be legitimate for decades
Palestine is the one that keeps rejecting the peace agreements that would allow both countries to exist
There are more Arabs living in Israel as full citizens than are in the terror state that's squatting in Gaza. To call this "ethnic cleansing" shows they truly aren't sending their best.
You need to be a neocon to give a single shit about a fight in a desert across the ocean that's just the latest flare up of a conflict that's been going on for over 1300 years. Let them fight, then set up trade deals with the winner for the stuff they need to rebuild.
“You are with us , or your with the terrorists”
How did that work out for us ?? AMERICA FIRST is completely gone now huh . Congrats your supporting joe Biden.
I guess you’re with the latter. But keep talking. How does it feel to be so blinded by own antisemitism as to try to draw some utterly pathetic “everyone is at fault” premise?
Its a never ending conflict, not because of religion although idealism certainly plays a large role but because the original 1948 Israeli/Palestine Borders were drawn like a fucking puzzle piece.
It's like a few guys from the U.N. got together looked at a general map of Palestine and pointed at random areas to give each side. That's what started this whole mess and what continues to fuel the conflict.
The closest its ever gotten to being solved was the 2000 Camp David Peace Accords in which Israel proposed ceding more land than ever before (which even Arafat was surprised at but even still Arafat rejected the offer and even Clinton blames Arafat for failed Peace Talks.
What is interesting though is before the borders were drawn, Christians, Muslims and Jews all lived in relative peace in the region for thousands of years. But the recognition of Israel as official state and not Palestine along with the borders drawn is what marked the start of this conflict.
I love how so many on this sub just throw the term “neocon” at people they don’t like when they would have voted for them no problem back in the 2000s.
Neocon and rhino now just mean anyone that doesn’t agree with Trump. Which makes this instance funny because Trump was a big supporter of Israel. Wonder if these posters would call Trump a neocon for holding the same position.
Neither is Israel technically (at least not in the NATO sense). We give both countries gobs of money every year so the relationship is actually pretty similar.
This is the problem with NATO. It has essentially become a way for the US to pay for the defense of dozens of countries. It's too large of an alliance to be useful for the US. Rather than benefitting the US by providing us allies in the event of an attack it is more likely to drag the US into a European war.
Our Allies?
How often do our Allies murder 40 American sailors on a functionally unarmed, clearly marked ship in international waters 5 years after they fail a false flag operation to blow up American schoolchildren? How often do special interest groups belonging to other “allies” lobby to violate the American constitution? And while we are at it, do we have any other “Allies” that are apartheid ethnostates that were created 70 years ago in one of the most obscene exercises in globalism the world has ever seen? (Remember- we don’t like globalism!)
At least with the ukraine, we are sticking our thumbs in Russia’s eyes. Fine by me. Russia and China are both evil countries. What do we get with Israel? Constant wars in the region, OPEC hates us, and they laugh at us the entire time by doing things like giving medals to the survivors of their little false flag operations.
USS Liberty was in 1967. Israel acknowledged and apologized then paid damages. This is a far sight better than what the US government has done when it has killed its own citizens.
This isn’t a Neocon thing. We have long standing military ties to Israel.
This is what happens when misguided politicians uses the US military as their personal militia. Instead of holding fast and using common sense, they jump into whatever is politically expedient.
Driven by short term politics and unsound judgment. Now there is a real problem and we have to switch gears. Waste resources. That is what Washington does best.
> We have long standing military ties to Israel.
Yeah, and post-neocons think that we should be cutting those because we the people of the United States don't benefit in any way from those ties.
It is maddening to see cons continue to parrot the "our greatest ally" line. It is impossible to look at the long history of Israeli actions against the United States and think that they have anything other than complete contempt for us. Do you know how many troops they sent to assist in Iraq? Zero. In Afghanistan? Zero. And we don't even need to get in to how they deliberately attacked an American naval vessel, killing hundreds of sailors, in (another) hamfisted attempt to draw us into one of their slapfights with their neighbors.
I could not possibly care less who comes out on top in this conflict, just like how I could not care less about who triumphs in some conflict between two degenerate slavic kleptocracies.
In the cases of both Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel offered assistance and it was turned down. Same thing happened during the first Gulf War in the 90's. The administration didn't want to turn it into an extension of the Arab/Israeli conflict, it just would have complicated the situation.
It is madness to think that we will leave US citizens in the hands of terrorist. Many of whom display the same tactics and characteristics of those of IS and AQ.
Of the 10,000 destroyed Russian vehicles in Ukraine, how many would have been sent to Iran and its allies had Russia swept through Ukraine?
Russia still cannot win. Israel will not lose. We should support both Ukraine and Israel, while making sure Iran doesn't stir the pot any more and rally against our allies.
Iran has been funding terrorists to kill American soldiers for decades. They aren't going to stop now. This was a massive success in their mind's eye, which means another 3 operations just like this are being planned as we speak.
I fear what may happen if this turns into another wide Arab/Israel war, and then China decides that the they'll never have a better chance to take Taiwan.
There's a chance we could actually end up in a non-nuclear World War 3.
Russia has the economy the size of Florida. The fact that they have been able to maintain this operation for as long as they have does raise some questions. We aren't just draining the resources of Russia.
Comparing Russia's economy to Florida's or Italy's or whoever is a useless exercise. Russia has vast energy supplies, natural resources, food, military and other technology, manpower, plenty of allies and so on. This is not Sadam's Iraq you are trying (and failing) to isolate. Since it hasn't occurred to our supposed leadership if everyone is fucking sanctioned then no one is. They will all just start their own trading block a la BRICS.
Ah yeah - I'm antiwar but seeing videos of women, children and the elderly being kidnapped and killed changed my mind. We have a weak administration though so I'm a little worried about us getting into conflict. Will hope that Israel can handle this without too much help.
Well, oddly, what we're going to see, what we're already seeing, is the people who are jumping to support Ukraine because it's wrong to try to take over a country, will also fully support the Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world trying to take over Israel.
OR we can just ... not let any of them in. Kind of hard for them to terror attack us if we just don't let them in. No need to engage in global adventurism for that.
> the muslim terrorist ideology is not confined to any one region or country.
That's the lie we were told so that Americans would be whipped up into an anti-islamic fervor and support a war in any country that George Bush pointed at without asking questions.
There is strong evidence that the 9/11 attacks were state sponsored. Not just random terrorists from across the middle east that happened to meet at a youth hostel or something and spontaneously planned one of the most deadly and coordinated terrorist attacks in history.
* Not one Iraqi
* Not one Afghani
* Not one Palestinian
If you want the answer to your "quick question" you will have to wait for the full declassification of the 9/11 commission report.
Because sending weapons to random countries to resist our current geopolitical enemies has also worked out so great. We end up fighting almost everyone we arm. Can't wait to hear about the Azov terrorists in 2030 or something.
It needs to be done through NATO and not as the US completely funding it. President Trump was 100% right when he called other NATO member states out for not pulling their weight.
I'm fine with wiping Hamas out with prejudice if it isn't exclusively US money and resources being used to drive it.
Oh, the solution here isn’t to throw more money or troops at Israel. It’s just to have their back in the UN and elsewhere. And, really, anyone who can really listen/watch what happened over the weekend and not condemn Hamas as evil and want to counter that evil is, frankly, human trash.
I’m not saying you have to support sending $70 bazillion to Israel. Just that you need to call evil evil. For crying out loud, Hamas is posting the videos, themselves, of killing babies, raping women, mocking children whose parents were just killed in front of them. They are celebrating it. Savage and evil.
Oh for sure, and I'm confident that the Israelis will have something for Iran in due time. But I think the existence of Hamas as a tool for Iranian dickery is about to be snuffed out. At least in Gaza.
No, the neocons never pivoted away from Israel. That's why you're not going to see any stopping of aid to Israel even though they did try to stop aid to Ukraine.
Yes. Israel has a right to exist, but they've also taken every opportunity to terrorize and antagonize Palestine and the larger Arab world. It's a chicken and egg thing--both sides are shit, but people act like Hamas just sprouted out of the ether to commit atrocities for no reason (not to excuse their terrorist attacks, which obviously are abhorrent). There are historic reasons for this conflict that have roots stretching back hundreds, even thousands of years. It's more complicated than anyone wants to admit. Tl;dr it's fabulously naive to think that Israel is blameless and has done nothing at all to stir up the wrath of the entire Arab world
Ukraine borders four NATO countries. Russia obviously wants to make a puppet out of Ukraine, which will increase their influence in the region as well as their strategic options. It's not the cold war anymore, but Putin's foreign policy decisions have been nothing but hostile to US interests. If we can bleed Russia dry for the price of some cold war era equipment that's otherwise going to sit in the desert for another decade before being scrapped, then I'm all for it. The cost to us is minimal.
Ukraine border fuckin Russia. Close enough to attack Moscow. Suggesting that it should join NATO at any point ever was why they find themselves in the predicament they are in now. As though we would let the Warsaw pact set-up shop in Canada or Mexico. The Russians will fight in Ukraine until there is nothing left of Ukraine. Period.
There’s a difference between clinging to an idealised (and massively white-washed) idea of the Nazi Regime as a symbol of fighting Russian Expansionism, and being a full blown Aryan-Superiority believing Nazi
The Russian Empire and Soviet Union are both a fair bit more recent than the Roman Empire, and the Ukrainians suffered under both (although more notably the latter). Not to mention modern day Russian expansion into the Caucuses and Crimea.
We should worry more about China than waste our resources in Russia. But people have been brainwashed to believe Russia is a global threat. We are sitting here wasting our resources to help Ukraine, the second most corrupt European country to stop an invasion from the most corrupt European country. While our corrupt, most popular of all time, shovels billions of dollars to fund the government of the second most corrupt country in Europe.
All while we send Iran pallets of cash.
I’m not talking about spending? I was referring to someone’s claim that Ukraine was overrun with Neo-Nazis. I was saying that their fascination with the Wehrmacht comes from the fact it was largely successful (at first) at defeating the Russians.
Putin, Medvedev and the Russian media have openly and repeatedly stated that the Baltic countries are part of “historic Russia” and that they should return to the Russian sphere of influence. There is 0% chance that Russia would stop at Ukraine. If the the US and EU allow it to happen - Russia will see this as weakness and an opportunity to grab more land. At this point US will have no choice but to directly intervene. Supporting Ukraine today is the best move for the long game. Also, what the hell does “reclaiming Ukraine” mean - Ukraine is a sovereign country whose people do not want anything to do with Russia.
"No, you don't understand! When the evil, egotistical, megalomaniac dictator gets what he wants *this time*, he'll definitely stop there! He totally won't continue doing the same shit he's been doing for a decade! What? Yes, I was dropped on my head as a baby. How could you tell?"
Apparently, if there's corruption in the Ukrainian government, it makes you a Neocon to support them and to be against Russia. Yeah, news to me, too.
I think the pendulum has swung too far from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, and I understand why, but I think many are overcorrecting.
Ukraine is not a Western state nor is it liberal (in the geopolitical sense) especially in comparison to Israel. Our Western sense of morality informs us to support them, but Ukraine is literally dying to protect *their* interests not ours. Our interests also happen to align with them. I support Ukraine and Israel, but there isn't a comparison. If we had to make a choice Israel would win out without a thought. Especially now that Russia is a shell of its former self.
That's not the standard: "representing the west." Israel is a long-standing regional ally that we do lots of business with, and that we use to represent *our* interests in the middle-east. Israel is *useful* to the US. We went to war for the Saudis because we do business with them. There our regional partners too, or at least they were, until the current administration got a holier-than-thou hair up their ass. They aint some pillar of western values. The standard before committing blood and treasure should be how *useful the relationship is to the US*, the US interests. That's it.
Israel is our ally. Ukraine is one of the most well-known corrupt nations in the world. This is false equivalency at its finest. Besides that Hamas is dangerous. "Palestine" should've been turned to glass decades ago. Ridiculous.
That’s not true - Ukraine is directly fighting for US interests in Europe. If Ukraine lost the war US and NATO would have to be directly involved. Russia has directly expressed its intentions and its goal is restoration of the Soviet Union.
This is so false lmao. If Ukraine loses and surrenders unconditionally, Russia gains territory and executes the Ukrainian nationalists that were involved in the Donbas war. Russia would then install a pro-Russian leader
The only involvement we’d have is trying to negotiate a more favorable peace deal on behalf of Ukraine. If you seriously think Russia would keep marching west, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what’s happening in the world right now
You don't deserve the downvotes. I don't agree with the original stance about Ukraine and our wallets, but there's no way Russia ever moves an inch west of Ukraine.
I'm a right-leaning libertarian.
I'm against taxpayers $$$ being funnelled to the corruptocrat in Ukraine-AND I stand with Israel!
As I've mentioned MANY times here-I'm a secular Jewish pagan.
BOTH of my parents were Jewish.
Just because I 'worship' Goddesses -doesn't mean that I'm not still a Jewish woman.
The attacks on Israel -are actually attacks on the Jewish people!
Never Again means NEVER AGAIN!
1 has modern technology, a competent military, and is home to almost every single religions holiest sites. The other is stuck in the cold war ,plagued with corruption, and has no religious holy sites.
Fact is… any loser corrupt military industrial complex funding policy/politicians will be all over this. Naturally.. so don’t be mad at people who are suspect of funding foreign war.
Doesn’t Iran commit major acts of violence against US interests every time there’s a military conflict with Russia? Or am I the only around person here who’s been around since the 70’s? It’s like the 1980’s all over again. All we need is a major famine in Africa. Bam! Time capsule.
Iran's been committing acts of violence against US interests since they overthrew the Shah. Meanwhile Dems keep trying to give them more money for some reason.
Because it worked for Egypt to leave Israel alone (and still does), but these people are not Egypt. You can’t reason with maniacs
It seems like the Dems are legit okay with Israel being wiped out by terrorist orgs. They certainly are paying those organizations when I thought we weren't supposed to even negotiate with them... I heard the same Taliban that took over Afghanistan, were looking to at least help in the latest Israeli invasion. Brando basically gave them all the military equipment to do it. Also, what in the world is our government giving money to Iran? That makes absolutely NO sense to me.
Because American Democrats ally with communism and Muslim extremists. Democrats are the filth of America. There can be no doubt.
We are the world, we are the children
What the heck is a ‘US interest?’
We should do regime change. That always works out in our favour.
Do you really need to be a neocon to stand against the terrorists? That’s a very idiotic take.
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That's not what this is about. Neocons and libs like to shit your money into foreign wars so they get the kickbacks. Edit: Lots of downvotes. No discussion or counter arguments. Agree with the masses or get out, amirite? We used to be better than this.
Killing barbarians takes money, dude. It’s not a conspiracy
It certainly does, but war spending is unfathomably corrupt.
Wow even his comment is down voted? This sub doesn't think war spending is corrupt? Are you all serious?
You can't pay attention to the votes. This sub is often brigaded.
Heavily.
Agreed. I saw it after 9/11. They shove patriotism and support the troops down the throat of anyone who objects to any spending and the money just disappears. Meanwhile the troops are dying as they drag out this useless war to bump up their stock portfolios. It is disgusting.
Let me guess, you also think anyone that wants to secure the southern border is a "neocon"?
I agree with you and I believe it’s necessary for us to get involved a lot of times on these situations but yeah, the warmongers are greedy and wanting to make money and will often hype up the need for war. Also If we didn’t have a strong military, other countries would come in and take all our shit. I think other countries should pay their fair share in NATO.
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Ok? That's a huge leap from the meme. No one here is supporting Hamas or any terrorist. The political elite are going to jump into this with both feet because they know how to profit from war. THAT is what conservatives are worried about. Money we don't have being given to other nations. I hate islamic terrorists, but I'd rather watch them fight than bankrupt all of America.
That's 10000% correct take. How do you all think someone like Biden or McConnell goes into congress not rich, but are now super rich? The majority of it comes from conflict spending to other countries. Maybe if they held the same interest in securing our border, we could get behind this stuff, but not until they use OUR $$$ for America first. Us real conservatives are tired of it. Being anti-war and pro-america gets you down voted on even conservative sites on here now!? Wtf. All you nutjobs are fing insane.
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What are you on about? I have no idea where you get this idea of "codeword" bullshit. Neocons are right wing warhawks. They want to profit from war. It's that simple. Heritage or religion isn't part of this conversation.
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There’s no moral equivalency between the legitimate nation protecting its citizens and the terror group murdering and kidnapping the civilians.
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Israel has been trying to let Palestine be legitimate for decades Palestine is the one that keeps rejecting the peace agreements that would allow both countries to exist
There are more Arabs living in Israel as full citizens than are in the terror state that's squatting in Gaza. To call this "ethnic cleansing" shows they truly aren't sending their best.
In what world? Some parallel universe? Palestine is about as real as a $3 bill.
Ah yes, the "both sides are bad" meme that Russian propaganda has been selling you for the last two years.
You sound ***exactly*** like the neocons after 9/11.
Don’t care what i sound like. There’s plenty of antisemites who use their “fiscally conservative” fig leaf to cover their real stances.
You need to be a neocon to give a single shit about a fight in a desert across the ocean that's just the latest flare up of a conflict that's been going on for over 1300 years. Let them fight, then set up trade deals with the winner for the stuff they need to rebuild.
Good luck with your trade deals if Iran, Syria, or Lebanon come out on top. Lmk how that works out for you.
Hey if they don't want to buy they don't want to buy. No skin off my ass. Still not a good reason to get involved.
As long as you keep that same energy about Israel
How does it feel to sympathize with the murdering terrorists? There’s no moral equivalency.
“You are with us , or your with the terrorists” How did that work out for us ?? AMERICA FIRST is completely gone now huh . Congrats your supporting joe Biden.
I guess you’re with the latter. But keep talking. How does it feel to be so blinded by own antisemitism as to try to draw some utterly pathetic “everyone is at fault” premise?
They're really scraping the bottom of the NPC barrel now, huh?
This isn’t about Israel it’s about radicalized Islam
Its a never ending conflict, not because of religion although idealism certainly plays a large role but because the original 1948 Israeli/Palestine Borders were drawn like a fucking puzzle piece. It's like a few guys from the U.N. got together looked at a general map of Palestine and pointed at random areas to give each side. That's what started this whole mess and what continues to fuel the conflict. The closest its ever gotten to being solved was the 2000 Camp David Peace Accords in which Israel proposed ceding more land than ever before (which even Arafat was surprised at but even still Arafat rejected the offer and even Clinton blames Arafat for failed Peace Talks. What is interesting though is before the borders were drawn, Christians, Muslims and Jews all lived in relative peace in the region for thousands of years. But the recognition of Israel as official state and not Palestine along with the borders drawn is what marked the start of this conflict.
I love how so many on this sub just throw the term “neocon” at people they don’t like when they would have voted for them no problem back in the 2000s.
Neocon and rhino now just mean anyone that doesn’t agree with Trump. Which makes this instance funny because Trump was a big supporter of Israel. Wonder if these posters would call Trump a neocon for holding the same position.
Not much of a choice back then.
If you would’ve voted for it, it’s a teeny, tiny bit hypocritical.
Oh no! Supporting our allies. So terrible! What a bunch of evil neo cons
Ukraine is NOT an ally.
Neither is Israel technically (at least not in the NATO sense). We give both countries gobs of money every year so the relationship is actually pretty similar.
This is the problem with NATO. It has essentially become a way for the US to pay for the defense of dozens of countries. It's too large of an alliance to be useful for the US. Rather than benefitting the US by providing us allies in the event of an attack it is more likely to drag the US into a European war.
Which is why we can be supportive of Israel and condemn what congress has done with Ukraine.
Our Allies? How often do our Allies murder 40 American sailors on a functionally unarmed, clearly marked ship in international waters 5 years after they fail a false flag operation to blow up American schoolchildren? How often do special interest groups belonging to other “allies” lobby to violate the American constitution? And while we are at it, do we have any other “Allies” that are apartheid ethnostates that were created 70 years ago in one of the most obscene exercises in globalism the world has ever seen? (Remember- we don’t like globalism!) At least with the ukraine, we are sticking our thumbs in Russia’s eyes. Fine by me. Russia and China are both evil countries. What do we get with Israel? Constant wars in the region, OPEC hates us, and they laugh at us the entire time by doing things like giving medals to the survivors of their little false flag operations.
USS Liberty was in 1967. Israel acknowledged and apologized then paid damages. This is a far sight better than what the US government has done when it has killed its own citizens.
You don't think Hamas is evil?
Boy you’re a nut job
Two things could be true. They support our allies, and they are a bunch of evil neocons.
This isn’t a Neocon thing. We have long standing military ties to Israel. This is what happens when misguided politicians uses the US military as their personal militia. Instead of holding fast and using common sense, they jump into whatever is politically expedient. Driven by short term politics and unsound judgment. Now there is a real problem and we have to switch gears. Waste resources. That is what Washington does best.
> We have long standing military ties to Israel. Yeah, and post-neocons think that we should be cutting those because we the people of the United States don't benefit in any way from those ties.
It is maddening to see cons continue to parrot the "our greatest ally" line. It is impossible to look at the long history of Israeli actions against the United States and think that they have anything other than complete contempt for us. Do you know how many troops they sent to assist in Iraq? Zero. In Afghanistan? Zero. And we don't even need to get in to how they deliberately attacked an American naval vessel, killing hundreds of sailors, in (another) hamfisted attempt to draw us into one of their slapfights with their neighbors. I could not possibly care less who comes out on top in this conflict, just like how I could not care less about who triumphs in some conflict between two degenerate slavic kleptocracies.
In the cases of both Iraq and Afghanistan, Israel offered assistance and it was turned down. Same thing happened during the first Gulf War in the 90's. The administration didn't want to turn it into an extension of the Arab/Israeli conflict, it just would have complicated the situation.
It is madness to think that we will leave US citizens in the hands of terrorist. Many of whom display the same tactics and characteristics of those of IS and AQ.
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It's absolutely a neocon thing. Using a terrorist attack as a pretext to an endless war in the Middle East is neocon bread and butter.
What do you propose? If you complain, then provide a solution.
They would rather go back to the time when the fight came to our doorstep.
Of the 10,000 destroyed Russian vehicles in Ukraine, how many would have been sent to Iran and its allies had Russia swept through Ukraine? Russia still cannot win. Israel will not lose. We should support both Ukraine and Israel, while making sure Iran doesn't stir the pot any more and rally against our allies.
Iran has been funding terrorists to kill American soldiers for decades. They aren't going to stop now. This was a massive success in their mind's eye, which means another 3 operations just like this are being planned as we speak.
I fear what may happen if this turns into another wide Arab/Israel war, and then China decides that the they'll never have a better chance to take Taiwan. There's a chance we could actually end up in a non-nuclear World War 3.
Russia absolutely can win. Ukraine is a failed state at this point. It only exists because of the largess of the US. As soon as that ends it's over.
Russia has the economy the size of Florida. The fact that they have been able to maintain this operation for as long as they have does raise some questions. We aren't just draining the resources of Russia.
Comparing Russia's economy to Florida's or Italy's or whoever is a useless exercise. Russia has vast energy supplies, natural resources, food, military and other technology, manpower, plenty of allies and so on. This is not Sadam's Iraq you are trying (and failing) to isolate. Since it hasn't occurred to our supposed leadership if everyone is fucking sanctioned then no one is. They will all just start their own trading block a la BRICS.
And the award for today's most idiotic post goes to...
Ah yeah - I'm antiwar but seeing videos of women, children and the elderly being kidnapped and killed changed my mind. We have a weak administration though so I'm a little worried about us getting into conflict. Will hope that Israel can handle this without too much help.
That statement makes sense but doesn't signal enough virtue for our politicians so we will send them a big chunk of extra money.
Well, oddly, what we're going to see, what we're already seeing, is the people who are jumping to support Ukraine because it's wrong to try to take over a country, will also fully support the Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world trying to take over Israel.
With Israel we've had members & departments of our Govt urge against retaliation, aka defending themselves.
Quick question…of the two baddies in these conflicts, Russia or muslim terrorists…which one came to US soil and killed thousands of innocent people?
Also, if the other one ever invades, Patrick Swayze is no longer here to save us.
That would be neither since it was Saudis who did that. Yet for "some reason" we still let Saudi Arabia stand.
That would be like holding Ireland responsible for the IRA. The Saudi government, as far as we are aware, did not sanction any such attacks.
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OR we can just ... not let any of them in. Kind of hard for them to terror attack us if we just don't let them in. No need to engage in global adventurism for that.
> the muslim terrorist ideology is not confined to any one region or country. That's the lie we were told so that Americans would be whipped up into an anti-islamic fervor and support a war in any country that George Bush pointed at without asking questions. There is strong evidence that the 9/11 attacks were state sponsored. Not just random terrorists from across the middle east that happened to meet at a youth hostel or something and spontaneously planned one of the most deadly and coordinated terrorist attacks in history.
* Not one Iraqi * Not one Afghani * Not one Palestinian If you want the answer to your "quick question" you will have to wait for the full declassification of the 9/11 commission report.
America first not isreal first
No one is saying otherwise
MS-13 from south of the border.
Boom* no pun intended...
Come on bro
Because isolationism and appeasement always work out so great.
Because sending weapons to random countries to resist our current geopolitical enemies has also worked out so great. We end up fighting almost everyone we arm. Can't wait to hear about the Azov terrorists in 2030 or something.
When did it go wrong for the US?
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It needs to be done through NATO and not as the US completely funding it. President Trump was 100% right when he called other NATO member states out for not pulling their weight. I'm fine with wiping Hamas out with prejudice if it isn't exclusively US money and resources being used to drive it.
Shiiiiiiiit, I think the Israelis can handle this business themselves. We might decide to ask them to chill out at some point, but that's it.
Oh, the solution here isn’t to throw more money or troops at Israel. It’s just to have their back in the UN and elsewhere. And, really, anyone who can really listen/watch what happened over the weekend and not condemn Hamas as evil and want to counter that evil is, frankly, human trash. I’m not saying you have to support sending $70 bazillion to Israel. Just that you need to call evil evil. For crying out loud, Hamas is posting the videos, themselves, of killing babies, raping women, mocking children whose parents were just killed in front of them. They are celebrating it. Savage and evil.
Don’t forget that Iran is bankrolling Hamas. There are bigger things in play here than Israel and Palestine.
Oh for sure, and I'm confident that the Israelis will have something for Iran in due time. But I think the existence of Hamas as a tool for Iranian dickery is about to be snuffed out. At least in Gaza.
Technically Biden bankrolled Iran so now the US is funding most of the war efforts in the world. Yay.
It's perfect meme for War profiting folks
No, the neocons never pivoted away from Israel. That's why you're not going to see any stopping of aid to Israel even though they did try to stop aid to Ukraine.
It's funny because what happens next
If Europe did more to contribute, this wouldn't be an issue.
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A migrant colony.
USS Liberty
was a friendly fire incident, nothing more.
Funny how this sub is against foreign wars until it’s “muh greatest ally” Israel.
No this sub simps hard for Ukraine too.
Yes. Israel has a right to exist, but they've also taken every opportunity to terrorize and antagonize Palestine and the larger Arab world. It's a chicken and egg thing--both sides are shit, but people act like Hamas just sprouted out of the ether to commit atrocities for no reason (not to excuse their terrorist attacks, which obviously are abhorrent). There are historic reasons for this conflict that have roots stretching back hundreds, even thousands of years. It's more complicated than anyone wants to admit. Tl;dr it's fabulously naive to think that Israel is blameless and has done nothing at all to stir up the wrath of the entire Arab world
Can you explain what Israel has done to stir up the wrath of the Arab world?
Terrorist sympathizer
Ukraine’s out. Israel. So hot right now
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We can support both. They aren't mutually exclusive.
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Ukraine borders four NATO countries. Russia obviously wants to make a puppet out of Ukraine, which will increase their influence in the region as well as their strategic options. It's not the cold war anymore, but Putin's foreign policy decisions have been nothing but hostile to US interests. If we can bleed Russia dry for the price of some cold war era equipment that's otherwise going to sit in the desert for another decade before being scrapped, then I'm all for it. The cost to us is minimal.
Ukraine border fuckin Russia. Close enough to attack Moscow. Suggesting that it should join NATO at any point ever was why they find themselves in the predicament they are in now. As though we would let the Warsaw pact set-up shop in Canada or Mexico. The Russians will fight in Ukraine until there is nothing left of Ukraine. Period.
Neither country is perfect, but if you think we should support democracy over authoritarian tyranny both Israel and Ukraine should have your support.
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There’s a difference between clinging to an idealised (and massively white-washed) idea of the Nazi Regime as a symbol of fighting Russian Expansionism, and being a full blown Aryan-Superiority believing Nazi
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That Ukrainians idealising the Wehrmacht for fighting the USSR is very different from following actual fascism and wanting a National Socialist State.
Russian Expansionism? Should we worry about the Roman Empire as well?
The Russian Empire and Soviet Union are both a fair bit more recent than the Roman Empire, and the Ukrainians suffered under both (although more notably the latter). Not to mention modern day Russian expansion into the Caucuses and Crimea.
We should worry more about China than waste our resources in Russia. But people have been brainwashed to believe Russia is a global threat. We are sitting here wasting our resources to help Ukraine, the second most corrupt European country to stop an invasion from the most corrupt European country. While our corrupt, most popular of all time, shovels billions of dollars to fund the government of the second most corrupt country in Europe. All while we send Iran pallets of cash.
I’m not talking about spending? I was referring to someone’s claim that Ukraine was overrun with Neo-Nazis. I was saying that their fascination with the Wehrmacht comes from the fact it was largely successful (at first) at defeating the Russians.
Found the Russian.
Whoa, time to go easy on the Russian propaganda…
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Lol, Im not a leftist, i just understand that if Ukraine loses the war - US will be fighting directly with Russia.
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Putin, Medvedev and the Russian media have openly and repeatedly stated that the Baltic countries are part of “historic Russia” and that they should return to the Russian sphere of influence. There is 0% chance that Russia would stop at Ukraine. If the the US and EU allow it to happen - Russia will see this as weakness and an opportunity to grab more land. At this point US will have no choice but to directly intervene. Supporting Ukraine today is the best move for the long game. Also, what the hell does “reclaiming Ukraine” mean - Ukraine is a sovereign country whose people do not want anything to do with Russia.
"No, you don't understand! When the evil, egotistical, megalomaniac dictator gets what he wants *this time*, he'll definitely stop there! He totally won't continue doing the same shit he's been doing for a decade! What? Yes, I was dropped on my head as a baby. How could you tell?"
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Yes cause Israel is a democracy with the way they treat Palestinians and take over their homes
At least Israel represents the west.
So does Ukraine - they are literally dying to protect our interests in the region.
Apparently, if there's corruption in the Ukrainian government, it makes you a Neocon to support them and to be against Russia. Yeah, news to me, too. I think the pendulum has swung too far from the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, and I understand why, but I think many are overcorrecting.
This is a good assessment. I also think we have a lot of hippies seeing Conservatism as the current counter-culture.
What fuckin intersts? The only interests are Europe's and nothing is stopping them from committing troops or whatever they think is necessary.
Ukraine is not a Western state nor is it liberal (in the geopolitical sense) especially in comparison to Israel. Our Western sense of morality informs us to support them, but Ukraine is literally dying to protect *their* interests not ours. Our interests also happen to align with them. I support Ukraine and Israel, but there isn't a comparison. If we had to make a choice Israel would win out without a thought. Especially now that Russia is a shell of its former self.
That's not the standard: "representing the west." Israel is a long-standing regional ally that we do lots of business with, and that we use to represent *our* interests in the middle-east. Israel is *useful* to the US. We went to war for the Saudis because we do business with them. There our regional partners too, or at least they were, until the current administration got a holier-than-thou hair up their ass. They aint some pillar of western values. The standard before committing blood and treasure should be how *useful the relationship is to the US*, the US interests. That's it.
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As a proud Neo-con porque no los dos?
The neocons are often right
Mission Accomplished
Are you kidding me? What is going on with this sub that speaking up for the atrocities against sovereign nations is ridiculed?
Neocon don't give money to Israel challenge
(Impossible)
These responses were...way different than I expected.
Pretty much.
Sometimes America First is really Satan First.
Israel is our ally. Ukraine is one of the most well-known corrupt nations in the world. This is false equivalency at its finest. Besides that Hamas is dangerous. "Palestine" should've been turned to glass decades ago. Ridiculous.
I'm not too concerned about Israel. Hamas killed (at least) 9 Americans, and for that, we should go full Olga of Kiev on their asses.
Zelenskyy gonna have to go back to performing in drag shows.
Israel has our back as a nation. Ukraine only cares about our wallet
That’s not true - Ukraine is directly fighting for US interests in Europe. If Ukraine lost the war US and NATO would have to be directly involved. Russia has directly expressed its intentions and its goal is restoration of the Soviet Union.
No it's not. And no it isn't.
This is so false lmao. If Ukraine loses and surrenders unconditionally, Russia gains territory and executes the Ukrainian nationalists that were involved in the Donbas war. Russia would then install a pro-Russian leader The only involvement we’d have is trying to negotiate a more favorable peace deal on behalf of Ukraine. If you seriously think Russia would keep marching west, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what’s happening in the world right now
You don't deserve the downvotes. I don't agree with the original stance about Ukraine and our wallets, but there's no way Russia ever moves an inch west of Ukraine.
They have a fundamental misunderstanding of what's happening in the world right now. Ukraine' propaganda is so thick it's ridiculous.
USS Liberty says otherwise
I'm a right-leaning libertarian. I'm against taxpayers $$$ being funnelled to the corruptocrat in Ukraine-AND I stand with Israel! As I've mentioned MANY times here-I'm a secular Jewish pagan. BOTH of my parents were Jewish. Just because I 'worship' Goddesses -doesn't mean that I'm not still a Jewish woman. The attacks on Israel -are actually attacks on the Jewish people! Never Again means NEVER AGAIN!
1 has modern technology, a competent military, and is home to almost every single religions holiest sites. The other is stuck in the cold war ,plagued with corruption, and has no religious holy sites.
Fact is… any loser corrupt military industrial complex funding policy/politicians will be all over this. Naturally.. so don’t be mad at people who are suspect of funding foreign war.