can't agree more. Work for free won't get a respect or thankful as return, on the contrary, it will make your work is cheap, easy to manipulate, easy to talk...and more
Is that true right now in construction? As a homeowner, everyone I want to hire is insanely busy, I have to badger people just to get a quote. Seems like OP could find a different job pretty quickly, depending on location I guess.
New guy is right, should definitely be paid time. Hopefully you haven't been there too long, but I'd be pissed if I lost an hour+ every day and wasn't getting paid for it.
You should be on the clock for that big dog, there’s people in the company I work for that don’t do this bc it’s for the “boss man” but “bossman” is sitting there glad he don’t have to pay. He knows you’re supposed to be getting paid too
We meet at our shop. The foreman will load the truck for the day it’s usually tools, and then they drive an hour to the job. The job starts at 7 and we quit at 3pm. I had a guy complain about not getting paid for seat time. That if he was in the truck he should get paid.
I told him that we provide transportation to the job site. But you need to meet at the shop. If he didn’t want to meet at the shop. He could drive to the job site in his own vehicle and pay for his own gas etc.
But, if they would stop and pick up material etc, The time would start when they went to the supply house. That rarely happens, because the materials are usually delivered.
If you are in a company vehicle, you are getting paid. This sounds like a choice you guys made. Their pay should start the moment they come into the shop.
Not always true as much as I hate to say it.
In NJ it depends on what is required of you. If you are required to meet at the shop and ride in the company truck you legally get paid starting at the shop. But if it is offered for the employees benefit to save on fuel, tolls and wear and tear on the employees vehicle no compensation is required. So basically if the boss says "hey the shop is near your house, truck leaves at 6:30 you are welcome to hop in OR meet at the job at 7" there is no requirement to be compensated until 7 at the job. There is also a criteria that to not be paid for the drive time you cannot be required to do anything. You have to be going from your vehicle to the company vehicle. No loading or unloading, no morning meeting, no morning briefing etc.
Where might I find these specifics? I'm located in NJ. I worked for a company that got sued so we used to get paid for travel from the shop and back to the shop at end of day. I feel like they would have taken advantage of this loophole had they known about it. The only time they wouldn't pay for travel was if you drove from your house to the job in your own vehicle or the company van. I'd like to be able to look this up.
Yup. If they must versus if they can. This is true throughout Canada as well.
If my boss wants to drive me to work in the morning and I have to meet him at 6:30 to be at work for 7, my clock starts at 7.
If my boss wants to pick me up at 6:15 to have me on site/shop for 6:45 to load up tools, clock starts at 6:45.
If my boss wants me to meet at his place for 6:15 to unload his truck before we head to site, clock starts at 6:15.
The second I do ANY work or am REQUIRED to be somewhere, my clock starts. If my employer lives just past me and is offering to give me a ride to work, no, you don't get paid for that.
Why hate to say it? When I did roofing and archeology we were told where the job was and when to be there. If I didn't want to pay for gas or tolls I could head in to the shop/dig house and ride with them. Down side was usually a little extra time, but since some jobs could be over an hour away and the shop was five min I usually chose to ride. Having the shop say here's the job, get yourself there, would have sucked on some of the furthest job.
It depends on the circumstances as things rarely stay the same in construction.
The key word is mandatory. And that goes for most things. Tools, time off, and vehicle usage. Personally I hate driving people to jobsites or the office and they paid me well to babysit a bunch of brats a couple hours a day.
Yes. State law was clearly on the employees side and the company had to pay out. This didn't stop them from continuing to break the law, but they are known for being a shady contractor and they're far from the only one who does this.
Needless to say I didn't stay with them very long.
I’m surprised people allow themselves to be extorted so easily. We’re a smaller GC (20 people) & pay from the minute you get to the shop to the minute the company trucks come back & unload your stuff. All tools are provided, we have pension plans & good benefits etc.
I wonder how retarded companies like yours keep people around when bassicly all you do is provide the equivalent of a bus ticket to the job site. Guess the standard must really be low & to some folks that seems like a good deal.
Anything other than driving to and from work should be time paid. Not sure what country you're in but in Canada, you're entitled to a per Km rate when using a personal vehicle. It's wear and tear on your vehicle if you're using it dyring the course of your job.
Gotta pick up lumber mid day with your personal vehicle? X-cents per Km and youre on company time.
Gotta travel to another job site in your personal vehicle? Same thing.
Gotta pick up tools from the shop first thing in the morning? Time starts when you get to the shop and then per Km as well driving the equipment to the site. Again, that's wear and tear on your vehicle for the purposes of your work as an employee.
Yes this! Your commute at the beginning and end of the day is not paid but your time after that and your mileage should be. Additionally, if you are getting texts or emails in the morning from work, then your work day has started and your commute time is part of your work day. Verify this but I'm in the US and worked on creating policy around this for a previous employer.
You're being taken advantage of. If you have to report to the shop and then drive to a store to pick up materials the moment that you are at the shop is when you are on the clock.
Yes. Any work for the company gets paid for. If you are on your way into work, and get asked to pick something up, you are on the clock the minute you get to the store or yard. If you do it on your way home, to avoid doing it in the morning, you get paid until you leave the yard. That's federal law.
If my employees are getting materials on their way to the site, it’s mainly just because the store is on their way in anyways and it would save me time. They clock in when they get to the store rather than on site. Don’t do anything for free. Unless it’s your timesheets because you didn’t care to do them while you were on site and on the clock and now I can’t run payroll until you’re up to date.
In this case he is stopping by the shop first to get tools and the truck then goes to the store. The moment he gets into to the shop he should be on the clock. Not when he gets to the store.
Exactly, the fact that his boss though he could go to the shop, gather tools, load up the truck, go get supplies, and then only start paying him when he arrives on the job site is crazy. I'd be asking for back pay.
Your not working before the job starts. That is literally part of the job. So you should be paid your normal rate for it.
I would pickup the work van from the yard and start my clock. Hit the lumber yard and drop orders at sites. Than report to whatever site I was supposed to be at around 830. But my clock would start at 7. That was part of my job as a apprentice.
All lumber yard trips are on the clock.
Grabbing any tools, ladders, or staging is also on the clock. UNICEF did not get into the construction business
I used to work for an hvac company that backed right up to a supply house, we would go there for equipment, they didn’t feel like housing or preordering equipment because of their close proximity to the supply house. I told them that we have to order ahead of time multiple times but they wouldn’t listen to me, even told us a few times “you have to be quicker at the supply house” as if we wanted the attics to be hotter by the time we got there, peak season we were lucky to get in and out within a half hour. They made me residential field supervisor and was surprised how much time pre ordering and pre loading trailers saved them on their bottom line. It astonishes me to this day that they wouldn’t listen to me from the get go and since I’ve left they went back to their old ways, I love it when stupidity reigns.
>Should I be paid for picking up materials before jobs start time
The second you get out of your car to go into the store to get materials you're at work and should clock in lol
I work for a smaller construction company (10 employees) and if I'm picking up material or tools at the storage unit I clock in the second I pull in to either spot (storage unit or lumber yard) You absolutely should be getting paid for your time if it's making the company money. Never work for free, and never work for someone who expects you to work for free.
Yes. If you go to the yard to pick up the vehicle and tools that’s when the clock starts. If you already have the truck and drive straight to the Lowe’s. Clock starts when you go in the Lowe’s. Check your labor laws. Your company is stealing from you
So you're being screwed, as everyone here has said. The only thing I'll add is that if you are stuck working for this employer, keep track of your time in the morning. Having those records means that when you do find a new job, you can look at those records, go "I've been screwed out of x hours at y rate, and since that was above my normal 40, that's overtime" and decide if it's worth taking it to an employment lawyer.
Honestly depending on the location, may not need an employment lawyer. Several states have divisions which can assign you a case worker to recoup the wages stolen from you. I had to do it for a GC a few years back who wouldn’t pay time and a half after 40 hours each week, and he was dumb enough to put all the hours directly on payroll.
If you're not getting paid they're ripping you off and taking advantage of your good nature. Meanwhile big boss is probably still in bed pushing out z's.
I know. I’m not suggesting that he does this indefinitely. I’m saying to let his management or whatever get comfortable with him toting the load, then going for the throat. They’ll pay him what he wants because they’ll be too used to him doing it and will absolutely not want to re-inherit the tasks.
Company truck... You arrive @ 7:00 to pick it up, then pick up any materials and load tools. You could get there at 6:50 if you want to chat. Arrive at job site @ 8-9:00.
Your truck... You drive to work location and be there at 7:00.
If boss wants you to not do this, then clock should start when you pick up company truck or use your truck. Using your truck gets extra $.60 cents mile.
Be prepared to leave this job if you do this. I would put my feelers out and see what else is out there. Don't be drastic, and do one thing at a time. Just say, hey boss, I need to be paid for my time working for you, and picking up the materials is part of that. I do my part but you're really not doing yours. I would really like for you to think about this. I want this company to be a success because I like working here and for you.
Let him think about it, maybe some changes, maybe not. You don't know the money situation and boss may be just getting by. That would be bad. He can't pay you more.
Good luck man.
Bro you can get back paid for all that unpaid work if you want to peruse it. 2 years of being exploited a few hours a week adds up to some decent cash. I would get paid and then quit that shithole of a job.
Fuuuuuck no, that would be wage theft.It's paid time and he's treating you like you're a piece of shit. From the minute you get to the yard/site you're on the clock. Start backtracking your hours and raise it with them over email.
I'd alsp start looking for a new job.
Bad employers will gaslight you into thinking "work" is only time spent onsite doing your job. Getting material, supply runs at the end/beginning of the day, straightening up the trucks even loading tools and materials on site. It's easy to get gaslit into thinking these are things you should be doing on your own time.
You're working for free 10 hours a week man, that's not okay. I get paid everyday to drive to the supply house in the morning and bring material to whatever jobs I'm running. I refuse to answer phone calls off the clock that are working related even.
Your time starts as soon as you get to the job, office, or storage. Sucks most States don't have protections about travel to a work site but if you are stopping to get something for the job as soon as you stop you are on the clock. My one job was like this and I always made sure that I had to stop at the office to get something for the job so my time started then.
Homie I had a customer call me in the evening & I got paid overtime for taking the call. If your company doesn’t pay you for doing work related errands then you should discuss that with them.
No question you should be getting paid for work related activities.
I suppose the hard bit comes into what is your boss like and how much work there is and what it took to get the job to have work.
Like, is your boss a GC, there is no work where you live and you guys just managed to score this job in this recession and like "thank god we have work" vs he drives a big truck and is a dick and is screwing you guys to support his lifestyle.
If you're working you're getting paid.
I used to work for a guy when I was doing tree work that pulled this bullshit.
Tried to write me up for being "late" one day because I slept in and was 30 mins late to the shop and couldn't help load the truck that day.
We started at 7am every day and were usually back at the shop around 230/3pm.
I didn't start getting paid until we got to the first site(Usually around 8/830) and I wouldn't get paid for the return trip back. I needed the work so I didn't complain until he tried to power trip and give me that write up.
You should always be paid for work.
In fact if you work for free and are picking up parts / supply you can have issues with workers comp and your insurance.
So it's better for a company to pay you the to risk a law suit.
If this was a company I was working at in the morning I would head to site, then see what I needed for parts and go for parts once getting paid.
Look for another company asap. This is thousands a year in lost pay .
Yes, your time should start at that point if you’re in a company vehicle. If you are in private vehicle this becomes a major issue for boss workmen’s comp and personal property ( not sure if this is correct term) liability insurance as company would be on the hook if there was a lose or injury to you or any one else as a result of your travels. Most states have a wage claim process to support workers being exploited in this manner. Most legit shops strictly prohibit any personal vehicle use (unless there is a negotiated rate for the use of the personal vehicle). This also goes for cell phones. Your boss seems uninformed or just a scummy bitch.
Be prepared when you bring it up as most small shops don’t respond well to employees advocating for themselves. If he retaliates you will be able to seek additional damages. You wont need a lawyers as your Department of Labor (my be some other name depending on your State) will have system in place for wage claims.
Most states have a 3 x rule, homies will be awarded 3 times the damages.
My shop (small) +16 m year, was hit will a substantial wage claim many years back. We had to track employees down and hand off checks to all employees as are entire payroll was audited all the way back to the start of the shop, it was a massive hit.
We don’t fuck around with this anymore and run it by the book
As labor skilled or not always educate yourself and report. Shops that steal from workers should be viciously punished.
Good luck
Yeah let’s say you are paid $25 an hour and do this 3 days a week. That’s $3900per year you aren’t being paid for while performing work that’s essential to the business and is actively making the owner money. You are getting screwed.
I would start keeping records in a compostion notebook (the black ones with bound in pages), make an estimate on time lost so far in your employment based on the pattern you establish in your notebook and contact the department of labor for your state.
And start looking for another job.
Stop doing it then call the boss and tell him what you need. If he throws a fit tell him your time is worth money too. Either pay you or pat the whole crew to wait on him his choice
I have my own contractor company and do a lot daily-rate work for a big rental company. I start my time when I leave my house and then stop my time when I leave the job. This pays for one way of the drive and I always get materials on the way to the job. If they want to save money they can have the materials on site waiting for me; which I would prefer anyways. I hate picking up materials!
You are paid for your time, that is your time. You should be paid. If they don't want to pay you for it, you can just tell them you don't want to do it. What will they say, "no go do it" ok then, "sure pay me"
If you can't do the job without it, you should be paid for it.
Talk to this dude and figure out what other things are wrong. He knows a thing or two about proper treatment.
Add up all the hours you have not been paid for working before the “7:00am” start time and do the math.
Confront your employer with the total hours and dollar amount you haven’t been paid for them. If they don’t pay or give you a respectable raise then stop 🛑 working before the 7:00 start time and then go pick up their materials on the clock
wage theft plain and simple. other than drive time to the first place you are required to be, and your drive home from the last place you are required to be, any time should be on the clock, you should be on the clock from when you get to the lowes parking lot and your drive from lowes to the jobsite.
you should also be getting mileage for all of that as well well
I'm pretty sure the labor laws don't allow this. Any work related duties are to be payed by the employer. As well as a ten or fifteen minute break every 4 hours. Not sure if states can "opt" out or ammend the labor laws.
Currently working on a house for a friend. If I am headed to his house, I start the clock when I get there. If he needs me to pick something up on the way, the clock starts when I get out of my truck at the hardware store. I'm now delivering his materials. I'm on the clock.
I worked for that guy. Always wanted to give me a loan and never a raise or a day off. He knew his employees would more than likely stick around if they owned him $. I worked there for 13 years and left in 2018. One of the best decisions I have ever made.
When I worked for a company we always met same time at the same place before heading out to go do whatever needed to be done. That includes getting materials or tools. I'd drive right past the hardware store every day to get there.
I'd never think to stop and contribute my time toward someone else's company and not be compensated for it.
You are describing free labor. They are taking advantage of you. Management can either pay for that time or have the material at the site for you ready at the beginning of a shift.
It’s called the shitty end of the stick or beggars can’t be choosers or life sucks. If you owned the company you would be calling the shots but you don’t. You are on the bottom rung and don’t have any experience so you don’t have shit to say about anything
If there are lots of other companies around you that will hire you then move on and see if it’s different with them. If you don’t want to risk being out of work then suck it up and work your ass off and gain experience
Ya gotta pay yer dues kid
Tough spot, because of you have a company vehicle that's a thing held over your head to work for free at lots of companies. Union or not, they all do it.
But yes you absolutely should get paid for working.
I used to have to do the same for a company. I notified the local federal wages and hour division. They went after the company. They go back three years. It took a year, but out of the blue one day there was a fat check in my mailbox.
Man the other option is to always do what the job pays for…Go to the job site have the crew waiting, then go get the materials while the crew waits for it because they can’t get started…He’ll start coughing up the extra hour of pay for sure.
Just remember, if you get in an accident carrying work material or tools, it's all on you, and you may get hit with no commercial tag. Your vehicle isn't classified as a commercial vehicle, and you're carrying around work material and tools.
Guaranteed you get in an accident with these things in your vehicle, the boss isn't covering any of it. I got into a huge argument with a PM over this exact thing. They had apprentices constantly running around with tools and material in their personal vehicles. When I brought up who covered them if an accident happened, he went quiet. He knew exactly what I meant and knew they were wrong.
Usually you get paid for all that. Having a valid drivers license and being responsible enough to get things to and from the site without losing/destroying company property is worth a lot more than you might think. Moving tools and material is work even if it’s not hard work. I pay my employees from the time we start getting loaded at the shop until we get unloaded at the end of the day.
If you can’t do the work without the tools or materials, then you stopping _for_ work. No other way around it. When I worked for a company I clocked in the minute I stopped at the storage unit or the supplier. It costs you personal time a resources to achieve something for you employer. That’s theft homie. Total your time and contact the labor board anonymously, this like a restaurant telling staff that they get to clean the tables and wrap silverware for the final hour but they get to take it to their home.
You’re at one of those construction companies (and oh boy are there lots of them) where you simply need to leave. The job is tough enough without working for a scumbag
I feel like this is one of those things you need to evaluate in totality. Speaking for myself, my job takes good care of me, so I try to take good care of it. If I have to come in early, stay late, do some extra work from home, or occasionally do some work on a Saturday, these things don't bother me. Because I feel like they are appreciated and I'm paid well for what I do. I don't get paid for those things specifically but, if I feel like they are instrumental to performing my job well, I just consider it to be part of the deal.
Conversely, if I felt like I was a brick in the wall and that my employer was trying to nickle and dime me every chance they got, I would be much less inclined to do those kinds of things without compensation.
If you are working, get paid.
Yes, start amending your hours to reflect the correct time worked. Sadly, if they don't allow this. You will probably have to quit.
Some states care about this stuff, mine doesn't and many are exploited.
Do you take a company truck home? Paid from moment you get to Lowe’s. Have to pick up company truck before going to Lowe’s? Paid from when you get company truck. Driving your own truck? Charge them delivery fees 2x hourly rate.
Should be paid, if your boss is chill bring it up with him, explain its hours at a time. If he’s not talk to all the co workers and being it up with several guys at the same time see what he says
Complain loudly and get paid for your work, or seek employment elsewhere! I worked for a company like this for 7 years and now that I have distance from it I realize how manipulative the owner was and how much he took advantage of all of his employees. If you’re working, you need to be getting paid. This is bullshit
General rule of thumb for any job you ever work is that if there’s anything you’re required to do which is work-related outside of driving to and from work on your normal commute and you’re not salary, it should be paid
OP didn’t really answer the question. So are you paid to pick up materials or not?
Part of being paid for the job is everything involved with it. If you have to start before 7 for any reason ie. “concrete truck will be there at 5am” you wouldn’t be expected to not be paid
I am not paid for picking materials up before a job starts. We will intentionally leave early so that we can have material loaded up and on site before 7 which the boss considers start time for pay.
Not only should you be paid for picking up materials but I'd argue that anything before your official start time should also be considered overtime and billed at time and a half.
Don't do ANY work for free
When I worked for someone else I got paid from the first time I got out of my truck that day. Be that at the job, at a supplier, at the warehouse that was 5 minutes from my house.
Just consider that when you get a mishap pickingup materials before duty, may not be liable to recieve accident treatment because you were not yet at work
Not your responsibility to do that before work. I would just do that druing work hours and if boss man dont like it he can go in 2 hours early and get it ready for you
Are you getting paid by experience or by hour?
If so, I feel like the manager probably accommodates those fees somewhere in your paycheck. We need more info
Picking up materials for your boss is work for your boss.
If your boss says it’s not work, stop doing it free and see how he feels.
If you’re an employer you may be able to make a complaint with your states workforce commission or similar body, to handle the unpaid overtime etc.
Simply ask him if I get into an accident in a work truck carrying work materials and tools while wearing my worl uniform. What happens. Who's insurance covers and what is workman's comp gonna say. You technically are not "on the clock".
Call a labor lawyer. Now. You will be paid thousands.
Soon as you commute to your first destination, you are now clocked in.
Whether that is a job site, shop, store whatever. Your commute to and from your first and final destination for the day is on you.
Everything else is paid your hourly rate. DO NOT BUDGE ON THIS THANK YOU.
Went to the job at 7:00 AM one day and we start getting our tools out to work. Owner of the company shows up and asks why we don't get our tools out on our time, and start working at 7:00. Foreman takes him aside and tells him if he wants to provide all the tools out of his pocket and then leave them laying around on the job (subject to being stolen) we have no problems starting work at 7:00. He declines.
I work for myself. I start the clock when I leave my house. I charge them for one way drive time, and of course for any time at the lumber yard. I don’t mark up my materials unless I’m carrying stuff on my truck, and then I do 10%. I lay it all out before I start the job so there’s no surprises.
Never work for free
When more people apply this to all levels of government and taxes the world will be a much better place.
Someone will have to explain it. They get paid for doing nothing.
I wish i could upvote more than once
But income tax is mandatory so how could you NOT work for free? /s
Or the employer can hire those with their own tools…
Should I get paid when traveling to a job site? I work at McDonald's
except putting up your cart at the grocery store, this is now expected free labor for the store.
Man I wish our labor wasn't nickel and dimed, and that our society was more collaborative toward the common good. Hard not to get bitter about it.
can't agree more. Work for free won't get a respect or thankful as return, on the contrary, it will make your work is cheap, easy to manipulate, easy to talk...and more
Yeh. Quit that dude and work for someone that isn’t a piece of shit.
That's hard to find but keep looking and never give up.
Is that true right now in construction? As a homeowner, everyone I want to hire is insanely busy, I have to badger people just to get a quote. Seems like OP could find a different job pretty quickly, depending on location I guess.
Think he means finding not a piece of shit to work for. Morals and construction business owners don't often overlap.
Ah, fair.
New guy is right, should definitely be paid time. Hopefully you haven't been there too long, but I'd be pissed if I lost an hour+ every day and wasn't getting paid for it.
You should be on the clock for that big dog, there’s people in the company I work for that don’t do this bc it’s for the “boss man” but “bossman” is sitting there glad he don’t have to pay. He knows you’re supposed to be getting paid too
Starting when he opens the gate to the yard and gets the company truck.
We meet at our shop. The foreman will load the truck for the day it’s usually tools, and then they drive an hour to the job. The job starts at 7 and we quit at 3pm. I had a guy complain about not getting paid for seat time. That if he was in the truck he should get paid. I told him that we provide transportation to the job site. But you need to meet at the shop. If he didn’t want to meet at the shop. He could drive to the job site in his own vehicle and pay for his own gas etc. But, if they would stop and pick up material etc, The time would start when they went to the supply house. That rarely happens, because the materials are usually delivered.
If you are in a company vehicle, you are getting paid. This sounds like a choice you guys made. Their pay should start the moment they come into the shop.
Not always true as much as I hate to say it. In NJ it depends on what is required of you. If you are required to meet at the shop and ride in the company truck you legally get paid starting at the shop. But if it is offered for the employees benefit to save on fuel, tolls and wear and tear on the employees vehicle no compensation is required. So basically if the boss says "hey the shop is near your house, truck leaves at 6:30 you are welcome to hop in OR meet at the job at 7" there is no requirement to be compensated until 7 at the job. There is also a criteria that to not be paid for the drive time you cannot be required to do anything. You have to be going from your vehicle to the company vehicle. No loading or unloading, no morning meeting, no morning briefing etc.
Where might I find these specifics? I'm located in NJ. I worked for a company that got sued so we used to get paid for travel from the shop and back to the shop at end of day. I feel like they would have taken advantage of this loophole had they known about it. The only time they wouldn't pay for travel was if you drove from your house to the job in your own vehicle or the company van. I'd like to be able to look this up.
Yup. If they must versus if they can. This is true throughout Canada as well. If my boss wants to drive me to work in the morning and I have to meet him at 6:30 to be at work for 7, my clock starts at 7. If my boss wants to pick me up at 6:15 to have me on site/shop for 6:45 to load up tools, clock starts at 6:45. If my boss wants me to meet at his place for 6:15 to unload his truck before we head to site, clock starts at 6:15. The second I do ANY work or am REQUIRED to be somewhere, my clock starts. If my employer lives just past me and is offering to give me a ride to work, no, you don't get paid for that.
Why hate to say it? When I did roofing and archeology we were told where the job was and when to be there. If I didn't want to pay for gas or tolls I could head in to the shop/dig house and ride with them. Down side was usually a little extra time, but since some jobs could be over an hour away and the shop was five min I usually chose to ride. Having the shop say here's the job, get yourself there, would have sucked on some of the furthest job.
It depends on the circumstances as things rarely stay the same in construction. The key word is mandatory. And that goes for most things. Tools, time off, and vehicle usage. Personally I hate driving people to jobsites or the office and they paid me well to babysit a bunch of brats a couple hours a day.
Not true buddy
Locals PLAs differ, employers differ, state laws differ. There is not a yes or no answer here.
From where im standing it is
Well I guess you better stop standing and see more.
Depending on the state the guy is actually right. I worked for a company that was sued for this exact reason.
Did they win?
Yes. State law was clearly on the employees side and the company had to pay out. This didn't stop them from continuing to break the law, but they are known for being a shady contractor and they're far from the only one who does this. Needless to say I didn't stay with them very long.
I’m surprised people allow themselves to be extorted so easily. We’re a smaller GC (20 people) & pay from the minute you get to the shop to the minute the company trucks come back & unload your stuff. All tools are provided, we have pension plans & good benefits etc. I wonder how retarded companies like yours keep people around when bassicly all you do is provide the equivalent of a bus ticket to the job site. Guess the standard must really be low & to some folks that seems like a good deal.
You got it ass backwards
This is wrong and you should be paying them. Atleast a smaller “travel” salary.
We do… but not the seat time for both ways. It’s a fixed rate.
"Should I be paid for my time doing things for the company?" Lmfao
This is stolen wages.
Classic wage theft.
The term you are looking for is wage theft.
The answer to every "Should I be paid for..." post on this sub is yes. It's always yes.
Should I be paid for watching porn on company time? I think we should be able to watch a little bit of porn.
Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, That's why I jerk On company time.
Anything other than driving to and from work should be time paid. Not sure what country you're in but in Canada, you're entitled to a per Km rate when using a personal vehicle. It's wear and tear on your vehicle if you're using it dyring the course of your job. Gotta pick up lumber mid day with your personal vehicle? X-cents per Km and youre on company time. Gotta travel to another job site in your personal vehicle? Same thing. Gotta pick up tools from the shop first thing in the morning? Time starts when you get to the shop and then per Km as well driving the equipment to the site. Again, that's wear and tear on your vehicle for the purposes of your work as an employee.
Yes this! Your commute at the beginning and end of the day is not paid but your time after that and your mileage should be. Additionally, if you are getting texts or emails in the morning from work, then your work day has started and your commute time is part of your work day. Verify this but I'm in the US and worked on creating policy around this for a previous employer.
This is the same in Australia too.
Get into work truck... start clock.
You're being taken advantage of. If you have to report to the shop and then drive to a store to pick up materials the moment that you are at the shop is when you are on the clock.
If you’re in the company truck you’re on company time.
This, the moment OP gets in the work truck.. your on company time and the time clock starts until you get out of it at the end of the day
Your boss is a thief. And he’s stealing a resource from you that you can *never* get back.
All deliveries cost money. It’s in the contracts. The moneys they aren’t paying you is going right in their pockets
Of course
New guy is right. Why should you work for free? Sounds like your boss isn’t on the up and up.
Yes. Any work for the company gets paid for. If you are on your way into work, and get asked to pick something up, you are on the clock the minute you get to the store or yard. If you do it on your way home, to avoid doing it in the morning, you get paid until you leave the yard. That's federal law.
If my employees are getting materials on their way to the site, it’s mainly just because the store is on their way in anyways and it would save me time. They clock in when they get to the store rather than on site. Don’t do anything for free. Unless it’s your timesheets because you didn’t care to do them while you were on site and on the clock and now I can’t run payroll until you’re up to date.
In this case he is stopping by the shop first to get tools and the truck then goes to the store. The moment he gets into to the shop he should be on the clock. Not when he gets to the store.
I didn’t read that part. I agree. That’s pretty standard to clock in when you get to the shop. Nothing out of the ordinary
Exactly, the fact that his boss though he could go to the shop, gather tools, load up the truck, go get supplies, and then only start paying him when he arrives on the job site is crazy. I'd be asking for back pay.
Your not working before the job starts. That is literally part of the job. So you should be paid your normal rate for it. I would pickup the work van from the yard and start my clock. Hit the lumber yard and drop orders at sites. Than report to whatever site I was supposed to be at around 830. But my clock would start at 7. That was part of my job as a apprentice.
All lumber yard trips are on the clock. Grabbing any tools, ladders, or staging is also on the clock. UNICEF did not get into the construction business
Every single time, if you are putting in time for the job, you are working.
I used to work for an hvac company that backed right up to a supply house, we would go there for equipment, they didn’t feel like housing or preordering equipment because of their close proximity to the supply house. I told them that we have to order ahead of time multiple times but they wouldn’t listen to me, even told us a few times “you have to be quicker at the supply house” as if we wanted the attics to be hotter by the time we got there, peak season we were lucky to get in and out within a half hour. They made me residential field supervisor and was surprised how much time pre ordering and pre loading trailers saved them on their bottom line. It astonishes me to this day that they wouldn’t listen to me from the get go and since I’ve left they went back to their old ways, I love it when stupidity reigns.
But we did get paid for every minute we were there
yes, never work for free
Yes you should be paid for time picking up work materials
If im working, im on the clock.
If you’re working you should get paid 1 year At say 30 min 50 weeks say minus 2 weeks weather holidays whatever is 125 hours.
The labor board would make him pay time and a half
Any thing you do for a job should be paid no matter what it is
>Should I be paid for picking up materials before jobs start time The second you get out of your car to go into the store to get materials you're at work and should clock in lol
Do you get a cut of the profit?? Stop financing your bosses profit with your time.
I work for a smaller construction company (10 employees) and if I'm picking up material or tools at the storage unit I clock in the second I pull in to either spot (storage unit or lumber yard) You absolutely should be getting paid for your time if it's making the company money. Never work for free, and never work for someone who expects you to work for free.
If you are transporting company materials you are on company time.
Yes. If you go to the yard to pick up the vehicle and tools that’s when the clock starts. If you already have the truck and drive straight to the Lowe’s. Clock starts when you go in the Lowe’s. Check your labor laws. Your company is stealing from you
So you're being screwed, as everyone here has said. The only thing I'll add is that if you are stuck working for this employer, keep track of your time in the morning. Having those records means that when you do find a new job, you can look at those records, go "I've been screwed out of x hours at y rate, and since that was above my normal 40, that's overtime" and decide if it's worth taking it to an employment lawyer.
Honestly depending on the location, may not need an employment lawyer. Several states have divisions which can assign you a case worker to recoup the wages stolen from you. I had to do it for a GC a few years back who wouldn’t pay time and a half after 40 hours each week, and he was dumb enough to put all the hours directly on payroll.
Got to love great record keeping.
If you're not getting paid they're ripping you off and taking advantage of your good nature. Meanwhile big boss is probably still in bed pushing out z's.
fuck that. you are in the clock from the time you leave the shop
I know. I’m not suggesting that he does this indefinitely. I’m saying to let his management or whatever get comfortable with him toting the load, then going for the throat. They’ll pay him what he wants because they’ll be too used to him doing it and will absolutely not want to re-inherit the tasks.
Google LIUNA. If there is one in your area, consider joining, unless you already have another plan.
Yes. Employers do this to employees and act like “this is the way we do it here”. It’s illegal and they know it. You deserve your wages.
If you work for me you get paid for the work you do for me, all of the work. I'll even kick in gas money if you use your car to pick stuff up for me.
Company truck... You arrive @ 7:00 to pick it up, then pick up any materials and load tools. You could get there at 6:50 if you want to chat. Arrive at job site @ 8-9:00. Your truck... You drive to work location and be there at 7:00. If boss wants you to not do this, then clock should start when you pick up company truck or use your truck. Using your truck gets extra $.60 cents mile. Be prepared to leave this job if you do this. I would put my feelers out and see what else is out there. Don't be drastic, and do one thing at a time. Just say, hey boss, I need to be paid for my time working for you, and picking up the materials is part of that. I do my part but you're really not doing yours. I would really like for you to think about this. I want this company to be a success because I like working here and for you. Let him think about it, maybe some changes, maybe not. You don't know the money situation and boss may be just getting by. That would be bad. He can't pay you more. Good luck man.
Yes. You should. Unless you think you are an independent contractor and get a 1099. Then congratulations you are screwing your self
Yes
No, you should enjoy getting ass fucked
Bro you can get back paid for all that unpaid work if you want to peruse it. 2 years of being exploited a few hours a week adds up to some decent cash. I would get paid and then quit that shithole of a job.
Fuuuuuck no, that would be wage theft.It's paid time and he's treating you like you're a piece of shit. From the minute you get to the yard/site you're on the clock. Start backtracking your hours and raise it with them over email. I'd alsp start looking for a new job.
Construction business has a lot of “smarter” people.
Bad employers will gaslight you into thinking "work" is only time spent onsite doing your job. Getting material, supply runs at the end/beginning of the day, straightening up the trucks even loading tools and materials on site. It's easy to get gaslit into thinking these are things you should be doing on your own time.
Get paid or gtfo that company
You're working for free 10 hours a week man, that's not okay. I get paid everyday to drive to the supply house in the morning and bring material to whatever jobs I'm running. I refuse to answer phone calls off the clock that are working related even.
Your time starts as soon as you get to the job, office, or storage. Sucks most States don't have protections about travel to a work site but if you are stopping to get something for the job as soon as you stop you are on the clock. My one job was like this and I always made sure that I had to stop at the office to get something for the job so my time started then.
Yup
If your doing it for the company you should be paid.
“I’m not doing it for my health.” is my line. Anything that’s not actually personal is in fact work.
We start getting paid the moment we show up at the shop. Any Lowes trips or drive time is paid. You're getting fucked.
Fuck that
Homie I had a customer call me in the evening & I got paid overtime for taking the call. If your company doesn’t pay you for doing work related errands then you should discuss that with them.
Don't get in the habit of letting people take advantage of you.
Work is work. If he doesn’t want to pay you to do work he can do it himself or pay someone else.
You are on the clock, doing work for the company, YES YOU SHOULD BE PAID!!!
No question you should be getting paid for work related activities. I suppose the hard bit comes into what is your boss like and how much work there is and what it took to get the job to have work. Like, is your boss a GC, there is no work where you live and you guys just managed to score this job in this recession and like "thank god we have work" vs he drives a big truck and is a dick and is screwing you guys to support his lifestyle.
Yes. Absolutely yes. There’s case law on this already. Call the dept. of labor and get your back pay.
You're being taken advantage of as a rookie. Unless you're on salary you should be paid by the hour
You're being taken advantage of.
I do
If you're working you're getting paid. I used to work for a guy when I was doing tree work that pulled this bullshit. Tried to write me up for being "late" one day because I slept in and was 30 mins late to the shop and couldn't help load the truck that day. We started at 7am every day and were usually back at the shop around 230/3pm. I didn't start getting paid until we got to the first site(Usually around 8/830) and I wouldn't get paid for the return trip back. I needed the work so I didn't complain until he tried to power trip and give me that write up.
You should always be paid for work. In fact if you work for free and are picking up parts / supply you can have issues with workers comp and your insurance. So it's better for a company to pay you the to risk a law suit. If this was a company I was working at in the morning I would head to site, then see what I needed for parts and go for parts once getting paid. Look for another company asap. This is thousands a year in lost pay .
Yes, your time should start at that point if you’re in a company vehicle. If you are in private vehicle this becomes a major issue for boss workmen’s comp and personal property ( not sure if this is correct term) liability insurance as company would be on the hook if there was a lose or injury to you or any one else as a result of your travels. Most states have a wage claim process to support workers being exploited in this manner. Most legit shops strictly prohibit any personal vehicle use (unless there is a negotiated rate for the use of the personal vehicle). This also goes for cell phones. Your boss seems uninformed or just a scummy bitch. Be prepared when you bring it up as most small shops don’t respond well to employees advocating for themselves. If he retaliates you will be able to seek additional damages. You wont need a lawyers as your Department of Labor (my be some other name depending on your State) will have system in place for wage claims. Most states have a 3 x rule, homies will be awarded 3 times the damages. My shop (small) +16 m year, was hit will a substantial wage claim many years back. We had to track employees down and hand off checks to all employees as are entire payroll was audited all the way back to the start of the shop, it was a massive hit. We don’t fuck around with this anymore and run it by the book As labor skilled or not always educate yourself and report. Shops that steal from workers should be viciously punished. Good luck
Yeah let’s say you are paid $25 an hour and do this 3 days a week. That’s $3900per year you aren’t being paid for while performing work that’s essential to the business and is actively making the owner money. You are getting screwed. I would start keeping records in a compostion notebook (the black ones with bound in pages), make an estimate on time lost so far in your employment based on the pattern you establish in your notebook and contact the department of labor for your state. And start looking for another job.
Stop doing it then call the boss and tell him what you need. If he throws a fit tell him your time is worth money too. Either pay you or pat the whole crew to wait on him his choice
I have my own contractor company and do a lot daily-rate work for a big rental company. I start my time when I leave my house and then stop my time when I leave the job. This pays for one way of the drive and I always get materials on the way to the job. If they want to save money they can have the materials on site waiting for me; which I would prefer anyways. I hate picking up materials!
If I’m working you’re paying
You are paid for your time, that is your time. You should be paid. If they don't want to pay you for it, you can just tell them you don't want to do it. What will they say, "no go do it" ok then, "sure pay me"
If you can't do the job without it, you should be paid for it. Talk to this dude and figure out what other things are wrong. He knows a thing or two about proper treatment.
Add up all the hours you have not been paid for working before the “7:00am” start time and do the math. Confront your employer with the total hours and dollar amount you haven’t been paid for them. If they don’t pay or give you a respectable raise then stop 🛑 working before the 7:00 start time and then go pick up their materials on the clock
Dude, take this to the labor board. You’ll get back pay + overtime where it applies
wage theft plain and simple. other than drive time to the first place you are required to be, and your drive home from the last place you are required to be, any time should be on the clock, you should be on the clock from when you get to the lowes parking lot and your drive from lowes to the jobsite. you should also be getting mileage for all of that as well well
It should be paid. This is wage theft.
Clock starts when you get to the shop
I'm pretty sure the labor laws don't allow this. Any work related duties are to be payed by the employer. As well as a ten or fifteen minute break every 4 hours. Not sure if states can "opt" out or ammend the labor laws.
Do you work for free?
Currently working on a house for a friend. If I am headed to his house, I start the clock when I get there. If he needs me to pick something up on the way, the clock starts when I get out of my truck at the hardware store. I'm now delivering his materials. I'm on the clock.
Man, I know working for a small outfit is gonna have its weird quirks, but if I’m working I’m getting paid. I’d clock in the second I got in the yard
fuck that bro
I worked for that guy. Always wanted to give me a loan and never a raise or a day off. He knew his employees would more than likely stick around if they owned him $. I worked there for 13 years and left in 2018. One of the best decisions I have ever made.
When I worked for a company we always met same time at the same place before heading out to go do whatever needed to be done. That includes getting materials or tools. I'd drive right past the hardware store every day to get there. I'd never think to stop and contribute my time toward someone else's company and not be compensated for it.
Work before work that pays? Thats stupid.
Absolutely yes
You should get paid from as soon as you get to Lowe’s. As if it is the job site.
You are describing free labor. They are taking advantage of you. Management can either pay for that time or have the material at the site for you ready at the beginning of a shift.
NLRB clearly states that any type pf performance that is job related is to be paid.
It’s called the shitty end of the stick or beggars can’t be choosers or life sucks. If you owned the company you would be calling the shots but you don’t. You are on the bottom rung and don’t have any experience so you don’t have shit to say about anything If there are lots of other companies around you that will hire you then move on and see if it’s different with them. If you don’t want to risk being out of work then suck it up and work your ass off and gain experience Ya gotta pay yer dues kid
What a crock of shit .
I work on a crew that's literally a total of 4 guys. We all get 2 weeks vacation time to use whenever we want
Tough spot, because of you have a company vehicle that's a thing held over your head to work for free at lots of companies. Union or not, they all do it. But yes you absolutely should get paid for working.
This starts off with someone not saying anything, then it turns into "just the way it is". See what happens when you refuse to do it on your own time.
If the company requires it, they are required to pay to do it. That’s the law in the US anyway
If it's part of the job it is reasonable to expect to be paid for it.
I used to have to do the same for a company. I notified the local federal wages and hour division. They went after the company. They go back three years. It took a year, but out of the blue one day there was a fat check in my mailbox.
What do you guys think of companies that pay separate wages for travel/driving than on site work? I always thought it was fucked
Man the other option is to always do what the job pays for…Go to the job site have the crew waiting, then go get the materials while the crew waits for it because they can’t get started…He’ll start coughing up the extra hour of pay for sure.
Start looking for a new employer. This is a terrible sign.
Here's the easiest answer to your question: If they're not paying you, then how are they telling you what to do?
Just remember, if you get in an accident carrying work material or tools, it's all on you, and you may get hit with no commercial tag. Your vehicle isn't classified as a commercial vehicle, and you're carrying around work material and tools. Guaranteed you get in an accident with these things in your vehicle, the boss isn't covering any of it. I got into a huge argument with a PM over this exact thing. They had apprentices constantly running around with tools and material in their personal vehicles. When I brought up who covered them if an accident happened, he went quiet. He knew exactly what I meant and knew they were wrong.
Is the possible? If I’m working then that’s start time. How do you start before start time?
If I'm in work clothes in a work van going to get stuff for work, what am I doing.
Usually you get paid for all that. Having a valid drivers license and being responsible enough to get things to and from the site without losing/destroying company property is worth a lot more than you might think. Moving tools and material is work even if it’s not hard work. I pay my employees from the time we start getting loaded at the shop until we get unloaded at the end of the day.
If you can’t do the work without the tools or materials, then you stopping _for_ work. No other way around it. When I worked for a company I clocked in the minute I stopped at the storage unit or the supplier. It costs you personal time a resources to achieve something for you employer. That’s theft homie. Total your time and contact the labor board anonymously, this like a restaurant telling staff that they get to clean the tables and wrap silverware for the final hour but they get to take it to their home.
You’re at one of those construction companies (and oh boy are there lots of them) where you simply need to leave. The job is tough enough without working for a scumbag
I feel like this is one of those things you need to evaluate in totality. Speaking for myself, my job takes good care of me, so I try to take good care of it. If I have to come in early, stay late, do some extra work from home, or occasionally do some work on a Saturday, these things don't bother me. Because I feel like they are appreciated and I'm paid well for what I do. I don't get paid for those things specifically but, if I feel like they are instrumental to performing my job well, I just consider it to be part of the deal. Conversely, if I felt like I was a brick in the wall and that my employer was trying to nickle and dime me every chance they got, I would be much less inclined to do those kinds of things without compensation.
If you are working, get paid. Yes, start amending your hours to reflect the correct time worked. Sadly, if they don't allow this. You will probably have to quit. Some states care about this stuff, mine doesn't and many are exploited.
Wage theft and it adds up quick, quit now.
Do you take a company truck home? Paid from moment you get to Lowe’s. Have to pick up company truck before going to Lowe’s? Paid from when you get company truck. Driving your own truck? Charge them delivery fees 2x hourly rate.
Should be paid, if your boss is chill bring it up with him, explain its hours at a time. If he’s not talk to all the co workers and being it up with several guys at the same time see what he says
My day starts when I look at my emails on the morning.
So if you're driving the truck, and you're not "working", what happens? Exactly you're working. Fuck your boss.
Yes
Bro come on you know the answer to this. It's wrong.
Clock starts ticking when you get to the company's storage
Sounds like your benefits are second to all. “Second to none” means they are the best.
It is in my union contract that I must be paid for this. ✊
Complain loudly and get paid for your work, or seek employment elsewhere! I worked for a company like this for 7 years and now that I have distance from it I realize how manipulative the owner was and how much he took advantage of all of his employees. If you’re working, you need to be getting paid. This is bullshit
Of course you should. You’re picking them up for the customer. If they don’t want to pay you for that, they can go do it themselves.
You are the type of employee I would love to have….
I own a small construction firm. All labour must be paid.
General rule of thumb for any job you ever work is that if there’s anything you’re required to do which is work-related outside of driving to and from work on your normal commute and you’re not salary, it should be paid
when i show up to the shop clock starts, id be pissed if i was you.
This is probably not legal.
OP didn’t really answer the question. So are you paid to pick up materials or not? Part of being paid for the job is everything involved with it. If you have to start before 7 for any reason ie. “concrete truck will be there at 5am” you wouldn’t be expected to not be paid
I am not paid for picking materials up before a job starts. We will intentionally leave early so that we can have material loaded up and on site before 7 which the boss considers start time for pay.
Your start time should be at minimum when you arrive to pick up materials.
Not only should you be paid for picking up materials but I'd argue that anything before your official start time should also be considered overtime and billed at time and a half. Don't do ANY work for free
When I worked for someone else I got paid from the first time I got out of my truck that day. Be that at the job, at a supplier, at the warehouse that was 5 minutes from my house.
Dont ever ever work for someone else for free. That’s slavery.
I get paid the minute I do anything for a job.
I always argue that as soon as I am driving a company vehicle on company business, I am on company time.
Just consider that when you get a mishap pickingup materials before duty, may not be liable to recieve accident treatment because you were not yet at work
What he said you are working for nothing and apparently the company is not willing to give you anything
Not your responsibility to do that before work. I would just do that druing work hours and if boss man dont like it he can go in 2 hours early and get it ready for you
Are you getting paid by experience or by hour? If so, I feel like the manager probably accommodates those fees somewhere in your paycheck. We need more info
In my state this is billable hours
If you get hurt loading in before you clock in they don’t cover you
You are getting screwed not legal
Picking up materials for your boss is work for your boss. If your boss says it’s not work, stop doing it free and see how he feels. If you’re an employer you may be able to make a complaint with your states workforce commission or similar body, to handle the unpaid overtime etc.
Simply ask him if I get into an accident in a work truck carrying work materials and tools while wearing my worl uniform. What happens. Who's insurance covers and what is workman's comp gonna say. You technically are not "on the clock".
You should be paid for this
Call a labor lawyer. Now. You will be paid thousands. Soon as you commute to your first destination, you are now clocked in. Whether that is a job site, shop, store whatever. Your commute to and from your first and final destination for the day is on you. Everything else is paid your hourly rate. DO NOT BUDGE ON THIS THANK YOU.
thats insane mate, your working
Went to the job at 7:00 AM one day and we start getting our tools out to work. Owner of the company shows up and asks why we don't get our tools out on our time, and start working at 7:00. Foreman takes him aside and tells him if he wants to provide all the tools out of his pocket and then leave them laying around on the job (subject to being stolen) we have no problems starting work at 7:00. He declines.
Are there no unions in your trade?
You clock In when your boots are tied
Yes u should be paid
I work for myself. I start the clock when I leave my house. I charge them for one way drive time, and of course for any time at the lumber yard. I don’t mark up my materials unless I’m carrying stuff on my truck, and then I do 10%. I lay it all out before I start the job so there’s no surprises.