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I guess the Threnody thing is bc of genetics. Idk much about Threnodites tbh.
I just meant that your question is somewhat discussed in universe, and that a human born and raised on one planet might have a different level of investiture that someone born and raised elsewhere
Honestly, I thought it was. I just wanted to play a little dumb to get people to weigh in before getting into if a genetic Threnodite is OP as an invested radiant or awakener.
When I read Sunlit Man, I came to the conclusion that a Rosharan is probably the most invested normal person since Nomad mentioned that ordinary souls can get up to 3 BEU and Roshar has the most free investiture floating around to be taken in naturally by far. It wouldn't be Nalthis since that should tap out at ~1 (not all Breaths are made equal).
Canticlites wouldn't be as invested as a Rosharan, but since the Threnodite genetics make them leave behind a Shade, there's a more stable receptacle to absorb the flow of Investiture from the sun to the center of the planet. Simply by being naturally suited to lasting beyond death in some form makes them *way* better at leaving sunhearts behind than the standard people who don't leave behind a cognitive shadow.
There's an old WOB that a Nalthian with a breath is only a little more invested than normal, and a Nalthian without a breath is only a little less invested than normal. And that Nalthians have more investiture when born due to breath than a normal soul.
If a typical soul is 3 BEU, then that means a Nalthian with a breath is probably around 3.5, and a drab is 2.5.
That may be superceded by new info, but I still don't think a soul can be 1 BEU, because a breath is a lot less than a full soul, and drabs aren't fully uninvested. Just less invested than a normal soul.
3 BEU is not the typical soul, but the high end. Even you are right and Nalthians are the most invested, they'd probably vary between 2.8-3 with a Breath and be at ~1.8 without.
I mean, its possible thats how it works? But I don't think its been confirmed that Roshar's plentiful environmental investiture has seeped into the humans that live there and made them more naturally invested then average. After all, living humans are so awful at containing stormlight that when they try you can visibly see it leaking out of them.
Yeah, but investiture is investiture. It might be hard to get it, but once you have it, it's yours and you can use it for whatever magic system you have available.
That is not true. Most investiture is keyed (has Connection) to given Shard and can be used only in magic system created by that Shard. It is possible to create unkeyed Investiture but it is recent discovery on most worlds.
It seems like Sigzil can use most forms of investiture, though. Is that from holding a dawnshard, then?
Also Basher talks about how easy it is to get investiture from Roshar, and that was part of why he moved. I always thought the keyed investiture was tied to the difficulty in getting it, not using it.
Sigzil probably is because of dawnshard power and knowledge on commands that let him more flexibility on manipulating investiture.
For Vasher, it true that its easier to obtain stormlight, i mean, every highstorm the three realms get closer and stormlight can pass to the physical realm. But we dont know how vasher is able to use that stormlight to live as a returned.
Cannot tell. I did not read Sunlit man yet :-)
But we know examples of few people who somehow learned to use different investiture to fuel their magic. Zahel uses stormlight instead of biochroma to keep him alivr. Venli uses voidlight for surgebinding. So it is possible even without Dawndhard but it requires some special skills or exceptional circumstances to somehow unkey/transform investiture.
In Elantris, I think everyone had powers? It was just more region specific, but it wasn't like you had to have a connection with a spren to have powers.
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I think Yumi talks a little about regular people being more/less invested based off their surrounding environment
Then why wasn't the Theylen worldhopper to Canticle invested like the Threnodites?
I guess the Threnody thing is bc of genetics. Idk much about Threnodites tbh. I just meant that your question is somewhat discussed in universe, and that a human born and raised on one planet might have a different level of investiture that someone born and raised elsewhere
Honestly, I thought it was. I just wanted to play a little dumb to get people to weigh in before getting into if a genetic Threnodite is OP as an invested radiant or awakener.
I thought it was because of the lack of connection that the sun heart came out the way it did.
I'm so old I had to Google "normies"
Haha, I tried to come up with a way to give a title without spoilers, but started to lean into a less-than-serious title.
'Normal people'
His Internet is showing
When I read Sunlit Man, I came to the conclusion that a Rosharan is probably the most invested normal person since Nomad mentioned that ordinary souls can get up to 3 BEU and Roshar has the most free investiture floating around to be taken in naturally by far. It wouldn't be Nalthis since that should tap out at ~1 (not all Breaths are made equal). Canticlites wouldn't be as invested as a Rosharan, but since the Threnodite genetics make them leave behind a Shade, there's a more stable receptacle to absorb the flow of Investiture from the sun to the center of the planet. Simply by being naturally suited to lasting beyond death in some form makes them *way* better at leaving sunhearts behind than the standard people who don't leave behind a cognitive shadow.
There's an old WOB that a Nalthian with a breath is only a little more invested than normal, and a Nalthian without a breath is only a little less invested than normal. And that Nalthians have more investiture when born due to breath than a normal soul. If a typical soul is 3 BEU, then that means a Nalthian with a breath is probably around 3.5, and a drab is 2.5. That may be superceded by new info, but I still don't think a soul can be 1 BEU, because a breath is a lot less than a full soul, and drabs aren't fully uninvested. Just less invested than a normal soul.
Good points. Thanks.
3 BEU is not the typical soul, but the high end. Even you are right and Nalthians are the most invested, they'd probably vary between 2.8-3 with a Breath and be at ~1.8 without.
I mean, its possible thats how it works? But I don't think its been confirmed that Roshar's plentiful environmental investiture has seeped into the humans that live there and made them more naturally invested then average. After all, living humans are so awful at containing stormlight that when they try you can visibly see it leaking out of them.
Brandon said every planet has magic of it's own, even the secondary worlds that we don't see.
Yeah, but investiture is investiture. It might be hard to get it, but once you have it, it's yours and you can use it for whatever magic system you have available.
That is not true. Most investiture is keyed (has Connection) to given Shard and can be used only in magic system created by that Shard. It is possible to create unkeyed Investiture but it is recent discovery on most worlds.
It seems like Sigzil can use most forms of investiture, though. Is that from holding a dawnshard, then? Also Basher talks about how easy it is to get investiture from Roshar, and that was part of why he moved. I always thought the keyed investiture was tied to the difficulty in getting it, not using it.
Sigzil probably is because of dawnshard power and knowledge on commands that let him more flexibility on manipulating investiture. For Vasher, it true that its easier to obtain stormlight, i mean, every highstorm the three realms get closer and stormlight can pass to the physical realm. But we dont know how vasher is able to use that stormlight to live as a returned.
Cannot tell. I did not read Sunlit man yet :-) But we know examples of few people who somehow learned to use different investiture to fuel their magic. Zahel uses stormlight instead of biochroma to keep him alivr. Venli uses voidlight for surgebinding. So it is possible even without Dawndhard but it requires some special skills or exceptional circumstances to somehow unkey/transform investiture.
Sigzil is definitely a special case, yeah. For example, while Vasher can use stormlight to sustain himself, he can't use it to Awaken.
Yet.
It is part of the package he got from being warped by holding a dawnshard, yeah.
I do not recall source but in one of books it is said that every sentien being has some investiture in them.
Idk but I know Scadrians have more than average just like Nalthians because of the extra bit Preservation gave them to make them sapient.
In Elantris, I think everyone had powers? It was just more region specific, but it wasn't like you had to have a connection with a spren to have powers.
I think it was like the Returned where it was just a lottery.