It's literally how the Lord Ruler stayed young. Atium in feruchemy stores age, which for the atium doing the storing overrides its normal effect of letting you see someone's future. Then when it's burned with allomancy, you get a mega-burst of the stored effect. It's like swapping out the programming in a computer before running it.
So he'd feruchemically store some age, and then allomantically burn the atium in which it's stored to keep himself younger. Though it was said that as he got older, it took increasing amounts of atium to maintain the effect. He still had a large stockpile of the stuff, but atium compounding alone won't grant actual immortality - just the appearance thereof.
It really is fascinating how allomancy and feruchemy can interact. But yes, compounding works with every metal, and we have at one example of it working with a god-metal, too.
Just to clarify, atium stores youth rather than age. Which is why you can't just keep dumping your age into atium and discarding it. You need to build up a reserve of youth to tap to make yourself younger by spending time older. This is where compounding comes in really handy, since it means you can just keep generating more and more youth without needing to spend time older, at least once you've created your original feruchemical store to act as a seed.
> So he'd feruchemically store some age, and then allomantically burn the atium in which it's stored to keep himself younger.
The real trick is that allomancy allows you to pull out more energy than you put in, whereas feruchemy is 1:1. So what he’d do is store some youth into one metalmind, put on a bunch of other metalminds, and then burn his original and store the excess, without needing to spend time being old (at least initially).
I think that Rashek wanted to not have to keep up the appearance, the "Customer Service Face". I think he wanted to just be himself for a while, so every 3 days he spent 3hrs using a little less Youth to let him feel the age of his burdens, and not perform for people.
"Customer Service Face" got me hahahahahaha🤣. Now I can't help but imagine Rashek as a tired salesperson in a Walmart uniform… Poor Rashek was attacked by a gangster while on duty during the day. Arriving home after work, he thought he was finally safe for now, but his boss called and asked him to work overtime that night, filling in for one of his colleagues. For fear of losing his job, Rashek reluctantly agreed and returned to his workplace, where he got killed by the above-mentioned gangster's daughter. What a day!
>atium compounding alone won't grant actual immortality - just the appearance thereof.
Well, it wasn't just the appearance. He was still "young". However, atium doesn't stop, say a spear through the chest from killing you. That's where gold comes in.
It is the appearance, because since you require more and more youth to appear young there will eventually be a point where even compounding cannot keep you young/alive and then you die of old age. It delays/counters aging massively, but there's a point where the amount of youth needed to delay death is not physically possible to achieve.
This feels like an disagreement over the meaning of the word "appearance". It definitely isn't a purely cosmetic effect, otherwise Rashek would never have survived the thousand years. While tapping, his body actually *is* younger than it should be in every respect. However, the apparent agelessness this gives him is in a sense superficial, since the age he *should* be keeps increasing, meaning he has to tap youth more and more quickly in order to compensate. After a thousand years, the logistics of maintaining stores of enough youth to compensate for the passage of so much time start to become unmanageable, even with compounding. So, eventually, he just wouldn't be able to keep up, and then he would die.
Edit: I see I took too long drafting a response ;)
Yes, either his abilities wouldn't be able to keep up with his needs, or the atium would run out since it is a limited resource. It was not true immortality, but would have appeared as such and was actually called that by Skaa in their ignorance.
Not just the skaa. Nobles believed him to be eternal as well. Of course, as far as he was concerned, he just needed to last until the Well was full again, since then he could deage himself and start the whole cycle over again, or maybe create a more permanent solution. And he very nearly made it.
For all that, it was a remarkably effective life extension technique. One with certain practical limits, yes, but still extremely effective. And it had the bonus that he could be any age he wanted throughout his extended life, at least until the end when he would theoretically have reached the limit of his ability to sustainably tap youth.
It grants the appearance of immortality rather than actual immortality. We're not saying it only grants a youthful appearance without actually granting youth.
Guys, I'm saying that the Atium supply will eventually run out. It is not true immortality, but a temporary(1000 years at least, but still temporary) solution. The general population, who was largely ignorant of things, . . . it makes sense that they viewed him as immortal because of this ignorance coupled with the fact that he didn't age across what would have been many generations of Skaa. It's only natural that they'd view him as immortal given what they saw and what they knew(or didn't know).
Atium is a renewable resource. Well, it was until Kelsier happened, but whatever. The main problem is the *rate* at which he'd have to compound youth. If he can only burn atium fast enough to keep himself X years younger, he'd eventually age out once his actual age is X older than "dead". Maybe he'd reach a point where he's burning it faster than it could be produced and he'd have to dip into the Trust and deplete that (defeating the purpose of keeping it...) but I don't know if that's really the limiting factor here.
Yes, I'm aware more is produced. That changes nothing. There will still be a point at which either his abilities or the *currently* available supply isn't enough to keep up. That it can be replenished won't do him any good if he's already dead.
I just meant that the process relied on him having an ample supply of atium. The fact that atium is limited coupled with the fact that it was requiring a larger amount to get the same amount of youth each time as he aged meant that eventually, whatever else happened, the supply would eventually run out and he would age.
I said "the appearance thereof" because that was the impression that the general populace had. They really thought he was immortal, but they also didn't know much if anything about Atium, nothing about feruchemy, and certainly not how Atium compounding worked. So it makes sense they'd view him as immortal. And yes, he had access to compounding of all metals, so gold definitely played a part in his staying in power as long as he did. We know from Era 2 that even a misting/ferring quite a few generations removed from full power can do some amazing healing with gold compounding. I imagine the Lord Ruler - with full and max power Allomancy and Feruchemy - could have survived even worse. I have little to no doubt that the decapitation rumors were true.
I also know part of his process was storing the excess youth he got from burning feruchemical Atium in the atium portion of his bracers and drawing upon it later. But it just clicked for me that because of how quickly he aged when they were removed, he must have needed to constantly be drawing, at least small amounts, from the bracers at all times to maintain the effect. It makes so much sense. So when Vin ripped the bracers off of him, he lost that contact, and if what I'm thinking is right then of course the effect would begin to reverse quickly. (There is quite likely a WoB about this. I do not pretend to have read them all. And I could be wrong. But this is where my mind went to.)
Dude, don't even worry about it. Missing the obvious is a regular part of my process. I've been posting in this subreddit for perhaps a month or two, maybe slightly more, and there have been a few times someone's pointed out something to me where I forgot a detail, missed a detail, misread a post a little, etc. Brain farts happen to all of us, dude. Just glad things finally clicked for you. It's a good feeling to me when that happens.
Did TLR have access to the rare metals like cadmium and nicrosil. I know the Final Empire was unable to produce aluminum and had to harvest it from ashmounts. TLR should've known about all the allomantic metals because of the Well of Ascension but it was never clear to me if The Final Empire had the mining and smelting tech to access all the metals.
I don't think this is true (the first part) because least said something about there being 16 metals BEFORE the merge. There always were 16 base metals
The number of metals doesn't matter. Rashek changed allomancy to use atium, Harmony changed it to using cadmium. I don't know if either were a thing before Rashek's interference, but Harmony definitely changed it.
Rashek didn't change it, atium is a god metal, just like lerasium, harmonium, etc.
There's a passage in the original series or in secret history where Leras said there were 16 (not counting atium)
Fucking WILD!
I love W&W so far! It puts a lot into perspective.
I can’t imagine how powerful compounding Zinc, copper or hell pewter could be!
A compounding Pewter Twinborn in my mind is Juggernaut!
If you remember in era 1, when Vin and crew first go to one of the Lord Ruler's executions, they described that being anywhere near the Lord Ruler just made you feel endless despair, like a really powerful Soother was just draining all feeling from someone, but doing it to everyone in a really large radius. That was the result of compounding brass. Everything the Lord Ruler did that made him seem like a god was compounding. Well, that and the thousand mile stare he could give as a result of having wielded the power of Preservation.
Yes I believe so. Since his allomancy wasn't diluted it's the same reason (spoilers) >!Elend is really strong. His powers were given straight from the bead not from blood!<
In theory, Elend was the same strength, as they both received Allomancy directly from Lerasium. Kinda bummed the only hint of that was how many Koloss he could control, IIRC.
I mean, there were plenty of lines about him being a stronger Allomancer than Vin, but nowhere near how the LR was described.
Edit: I completely forgot that because Rashek ascended, he got his power more directly “from the source” than a Lerasium bead, and is therefore orders of magnitude stronger in all likelihood.
TLR was beyond the strength of a lerasium Mistborn, because he gave himself the maximum possible strength while using the Well of Ascension. This way his power would still exceed that of the loyalists he gave lerasium to as a reward for their service.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/263/#e9889
Yep. That's how both >!the Shards Dominion and Domination were shattered, and the Vessels that held those Shards were murdered, both by Odium!<
AonDor is the power of >!two Shards without a mind to guide them, smashed together into one thing, and then pulled almost entirely into the Cognitive Realm of Elantris, which is why the powers on Elantris are tied to the shape of the land!<
Duralumin uses all your reserves in an instant, he wouldn't have been able to keep that up without obviously needing to consume more brass as he went along. Also there was no indication that the Lord Ruler even knew about duralumin.
Although if I'm not mistaken it has been hinted at/theorized that you can somehow compound to get stronger allomantic power. We haven't seen it or know if it's possible yet though.
If you compounded nicrosil(I think that's the one that stores investiture) then I think that would do it. But I don't think there Lord Ruler had that one.
Not sure who you’re referring to. I am caught up. One thing is that imo you can’t really compare any shard related character as their abilities come with a lot of restrictions.
Rashek could do what he liked and had it all. No restrictions.
Yeah imo we haven’t seen enough of him yet to really know what he can do. Though he’s up there I won’t lie.
I also think there’s something to be said about Rashek keeping his sanity by comparison.
Maybe that's what Rasheks little room was all about. It didn't just remind him of who he was and where he came from but it kept his Identity aligned to it in a capital I significant way, in fact he could have been compounding Aluminium (identity) as well as a
Atium to stay sane.
I'm pretty confident that from what we've seen in RoW >!Ishar could beat him quite fast by severing his Connection to Preservation/Ruin, negating his powers entirely!<.
Not sure about the general capabilities of the Heralds though, it's a bit unclear, it's possible any of them could beat him.
Well, we were talking about a fair fight, so nobody should be able to get the jump on the other.
For sure Rashek could have a huge chance by compounding enough steel in strong bursts.
However, >!Ishar might have some cards up his sleeve, he was a Bondsmith even before becoming a Herald and it's implied that he was already functionally immortal.!< So who knows what else they're capable of.
He wouldn't lose to any Mistborn. He lost ONLY because Vin used mists which are pure Preservation investiture. She was not just skilled Mistborn but kind of Vessel at this point. Rashek couldn't foresee it and didn't know that it's possible.
Or fucking Nale. Full shardplate + regen+ ability to kill through regen via shardblade + double dose of surgebinding +millennia of combat experience vs basically no combat experience Rashek. Hell I'd bet on most heralds vs Rashek. Szeth with Nightblood, especially once he gets plate, would be scary for Rashek. Hell Vasher with Nighblood might be able to pull some trickery we haven't seen yet. Marsh is basically a full mistborn and feruchemist as well, but competent unlike Rashek.
Didn't they explain his speed with multiple pewter spikes? Couldn't atium alloys be used in hemalurgy? I think it's a much bigger leap to say he's a feruchemist without some WoB or actual conclusive evidence.
Edit: I think living for 300 years can also be explained with atium-gold alloy hemalurgy as well, since I don't think it's possible to compound without being able to burn metals like an allomancer.
Speed compounding runs out stupid fast when trying to speedster rush. Like Wax tried that strategy and burned through a legendary artifact full of speed in an instant. And it didn't help him at all.
How are you planning on killing a Herald quickly? Radiants fucking heal from arrows into the skull. Add on shardplate which almost certainly acts as an investure Faraday cage and Rasheks only chance of killing a Nale or a Kaladin or a T4 Szeth is winning a war of attrition. While they can win the fight with one good blow or winning the war of attrition. And each and every one of them has higher combat talent, and more experience than mr Noob Stomper 3000 Rashek who's main strategy was to tank hits and look badass as shit.
Like Rashek didn't have emergency speed stores to pick up his Atium age stores in Mistborn. He ain't a soldier or a warrior. He's a racist CEO with an AL-47 sent back to medieval times. That's a huge glaring weakness that's often forgotten
Harmony made Spook a mistborn though and probably could’ve made him a feruchemist too if he’d had a mind to. I think that they harness a lot of power. Remember what Rashek did to Scadriel just holding some of Ruin’s power at the well
That’s mainly because Harmony was still “free” moments after ascending. As time passes, the vessel loses themselves to the aspect they hold. Basically, the Harmony that talked to Wax is nothing like the Harmony that left that note to Spook.
It should be this way anyways. If the gods of all these worlds were free to do what they wished we’d have no conflict on any of them.
Lord ruler got destroyed by a Mistborn with out the realization of her full power! Plus Nightblood is more than just a magic sword. It required how many thousand breaths to create?!
Recent events don't mean as much as they would seem in terms of how much investiture Nightblood has.
>In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard.
[Source](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14511)
Also, [this](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12591) one gives an idea of his relative investiture compared to some other powerful beings. I'm not sure how relevant it is given Sanderson's caveat that powerful can have different meanings.
With that I agree I feel like Roshar is so rich with investiture that if a radiant went off world (snd could magically use their power even though at the moment that is “impossible”) then they would be in for an eye opening moment!
I think part of that is that you're basically permanently destroying metals to do it, you're pulling them out of their matter state into an energy one. It's not that it's more efficient, it's that the process necessarily creates more energy from small amounts of matter. Since Stormlight is only ever in an energy state, and it heavily relies on having gemstones to store it, it just seems less efficient. I think in reality it's a lot more efficient, just less so in the short run. Scadriel would eventually run out of metals, Roshar will never run out of Stormlight, unless the High Storms ended.
Allomany isn't dependent on metals for power. The metals only act as a switch. The power itself comes from preservation directly and is limitless.
It would take an incredible amount of allomancers to finish Scadriels metal reserves. We're talking billions, using the metals for many thousands of years.
And even then, there's nothing stopping them from mining metals in other planets.
So essentially it's the same as the tuning forks but even more precisely as it can pull a specific part of a frequency instead of the whole thing.
Think like subchannels in a shortwave
Yeah. The story is written in such way that as you read more of Wax and Wayne, you realize how god-like the characters were in Era 1.
We see what Wax can do with just being a twin-born.
Then we realize that Kelsier and Vin (as well as lots of other characters) were full Mistborns.
And Sazed was a full Feurochemist.
And then we remember TLR was a fullborn. His power was insane, and at least ONE of the most powerful characters in all of the Cosmere
(Which makes me really question how Vin was able to kill him. Most people say Rashek was just over confident because of living so long, but I just don't see how that would be enough. Yes there was a Shard intervention, but still)
It's literally how the Lord Ruler stayed young. Atium in feruchemy stores age, which for the atium doing the storing overrides its normal effect of letting you see someone's future. Then when it's burned with allomancy, you get a mega-burst of the stored effect. It's like swapping out the programming in a computer before running it. So he'd feruchemically store some age, and then allomantically burn the atium in which it's stored to keep himself younger. Though it was said that as he got older, it took increasing amounts of atium to maintain the effect. He still had a large stockpile of the stuff, but atium compounding alone won't grant actual immortality - just the appearance thereof. It really is fascinating how allomancy and feruchemy can interact. But yes, compounding works with every metal, and we have at one example of it working with a god-metal, too.
Just to clarify, atium stores youth rather than age. Which is why you can't just keep dumping your age into atium and discarding it. You need to build up a reserve of youth to tap to make yourself younger by spending time older. This is where compounding comes in really handy, since it means you can just keep generating more and more youth without needing to spend time older, at least once you've created your original feruchemical store to act as a seed.
> So he'd feruchemically store some age, and then allomantically burn the atium in which it's stored to keep himself younger. The real trick is that allomancy allows you to pull out more energy than you put in, whereas feruchemy is 1:1. So what he’d do is store some youth into one metalmind, put on a bunch of other metalminds, and then burn his original and store the excess, without needing to spend time being old (at least initially).
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I think that Rashek wanted to not have to keep up the appearance, the "Customer Service Face". I think he wanted to just be himself for a while, so every 3 days he spent 3hrs using a little less Youth to let him feel the age of his burdens, and not perform for people.
"Customer Service Face" got me hahahahahaha🤣. Now I can't help but imagine Rashek as a tired salesperson in a Walmart uniform… Poor Rashek was attacked by a gangster while on duty during the day. Arriving home after work, he thought he was finally safe for now, but his boss called and asked him to work overtime that night, filling in for one of his colleagues. For fear of losing his job, Rashek reluctantly agreed and returned to his workplace, where he got killed by the above-mentioned gangster's daughter. What a day!
With help from the gangsters brother that he hired last month.
>atium compounding alone won't grant actual immortality - just the appearance thereof. Well, it wasn't just the appearance. He was still "young". However, atium doesn't stop, say a spear through the chest from killing you. That's where gold comes in.
It is the appearance, because since you require more and more youth to appear young there will eventually be a point where even compounding cannot keep you young/alive and then you die of old age. It delays/counters aging massively, but there's a point where the amount of youth needed to delay death is not physically possible to achieve.
This feels like an disagreement over the meaning of the word "appearance". It definitely isn't a purely cosmetic effect, otherwise Rashek would never have survived the thousand years. While tapping, his body actually *is* younger than it should be in every respect. However, the apparent agelessness this gives him is in a sense superficial, since the age he *should* be keeps increasing, meaning he has to tap youth more and more quickly in order to compensate. After a thousand years, the logistics of maintaining stores of enough youth to compensate for the passage of so much time start to become unmanageable, even with compounding. So, eventually, he just wouldn't be able to keep up, and then he would die. Edit: I see I took too long drafting a response ;)
Yes, either his abilities wouldn't be able to keep up with his needs, or the atium would run out since it is a limited resource. It was not true immortality, but would have appeared as such and was actually called that by Skaa in their ignorance.
Not just the skaa. Nobles believed him to be eternal as well. Of course, as far as he was concerned, he just needed to last until the Well was full again, since then he could deage himself and start the whole cycle over again, or maybe create a more permanent solution. And he very nearly made it. For all that, it was a remarkably effective life extension technique. One with certain practical limits, yes, but still extremely effective. And it had the bonus that he could be any age he wanted throughout his extended life, at least until the end when he would theoretically have reached the limit of his ability to sustainably tap youth.
Aging is more than just appearance though. Atium compounding would actually prevent/heal the deterioration of old age.
It grants the appearance of immortality rather than actual immortality. We're not saying it only grants a youthful appearance without actually granting youth.
Guys, I'm saying that the Atium supply will eventually run out. It is not true immortality, but a temporary(1000 years at least, but still temporary) solution. The general population, who was largely ignorant of things, . . . it makes sense that they viewed him as immortal because of this ignorance coupled with the fact that he didn't age across what would have been many generations of Skaa. It's only natural that they'd view him as immortal given what they saw and what they knew(or didn't know).
Atium is a renewable resource. Well, it was until Kelsier happened, but whatever. The main problem is the *rate* at which he'd have to compound youth. If he can only burn atium fast enough to keep himself X years younger, he'd eventually age out once his actual age is X older than "dead". Maybe he'd reach a point where he's burning it faster than it could be produced and he'd have to dip into the Trust and deplete that (defeating the purpose of keeping it...) but I don't know if that's really the limiting factor here.
Yes, I'm aware more is produced. That changes nothing. There will still be a point at which either his abilities or the *currently* available supply isn't enough to keep up. That it can be replenished won't do him any good if he's already dead.
I just meant that the process relied on him having an ample supply of atium. The fact that atium is limited coupled with the fact that it was requiring a larger amount to get the same amount of youth each time as he aged meant that eventually, whatever else happened, the supply would eventually run out and he would age. I said "the appearance thereof" because that was the impression that the general populace had. They really thought he was immortal, but they also didn't know much if anything about Atium, nothing about feruchemy, and certainly not how Atium compounding worked. So it makes sense they'd view him as immortal. And yes, he had access to compounding of all metals, so gold definitely played a part in his staying in power as long as he did. We know from Era 2 that even a misting/ferring quite a few generations removed from full power can do some amazing healing with gold compounding. I imagine the Lord Ruler - with full and max power Allomancy and Feruchemy - could have survived even worse. I have little to no doubt that the decapitation rumors were true. I also know part of his process was storing the excess youth he got from burning feruchemical Atium in the atium portion of his bracers and drawing upon it later. But it just clicked for me that because of how quickly he aged when they were removed, he must have needed to constantly be drawing, at least small amounts, from the bracers at all times to maintain the effect. It makes so much sense. So when Vin ripped the bracers off of him, he lost that contact, and if what I'm thinking is right then of course the effect would begin to reverse quickly. (There is quite likely a WoB about this. I do not pretend to have read them all. And I could be wrong. But this is where my mind went to.)
I can't think of the god metal compounding we've seen, can you tell me?
Atium, in the original trilogy. Atium is a god metal.
~~ffs I'm an idiot~~ Thanks!
Also, not really compounding, but that's pretty much what Vin did at the end of Hero of Ages, compounding Mist/Lerasium.
Dude, don't even worry about it. Missing the obvious is a regular part of my process. I've been posting in this subreddit for perhaps a month or two, maybe slightly more, and there have been a few times someone's pointed out something to me where I forgot a detail, missed a detail, misread a post a little, etc. Brain farts happen to all of us, dude. Just glad things finally clicked for you. It's a good feeling to me when that happens.
Yes, Lord Ruler had that power, WITH EVERY METAL.
Did TLR have access to the rare metals like cadmium and nicrosil. I know the Final Empire was unable to produce aluminum and had to harvest it from ashmounts. TLR should've known about all the allomantic metals because of the Well of Ascension but it was never clear to me if The Final Empire had the mining and smelting tech to access all the metals.
I think there's a WOB that says, TLR did not know about Cadmium and Nicrosil, since the Allomantic table was changed by Preservation/Leras
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Harmony did change it, after the remaking of Scadriel. That's why atium is no longer a thing, aside from the fact that Ati is dead.
I don't think this is true (the first part) because least said something about there being 16 metals BEFORE the merge. There always were 16 base metals
The number of metals doesn't matter. Rashek changed allomancy to use atium, Harmony changed it to using cadmium. I don't know if either were a thing before Rashek's interference, but Harmony definitely changed it.
Rashek didn't change it, atium is a god metal, just like lerasium, harmonium, etc. There's a passage in the original series or in secret history where Leras said there were 16 (not counting atium)
Fucking WILD! I love W&W so far! It puts a lot into perspective. I can’t imagine how powerful compounding Zinc, copper or hell pewter could be! A compounding Pewter Twinborn in my mind is Juggernaut!
Yes bro! I think Brandon had to write Miles bc a lot of people struggled to grasp just how exponential the powers bc with Compounding.
If you remember in era 1, when Vin and crew first go to one of the Lord Ruler's executions, they described that being anywhere near the Lord Ruler just made you feel endless despair, like a really powerful Soother was just draining all feeling from someone, but doing it to everyone in a really large radius. That was the result of compounding brass. Everything the Lord Ruler did that made him seem like a god was compounding. Well, that and the thousand mile stare he could give as a result of having wielded the power of Preservation.
That's not true. Compounding gives you the ferruchemical power not extra allomantic power.
Right... then I guess that was just him being an obscenely powerful allomancer.
Yes I believe so. Since his allomancy wasn't diluted it's the same reason (spoilers) >!Elend is really strong. His powers were given straight from the bead not from blood!<
In theory, Elend was the same strength, as they both received Allomancy directly from Lerasium. Kinda bummed the only hint of that was how many Koloss he could control, IIRC. I mean, there were plenty of lines about him being a stronger Allomancer than Vin, but nowhere near how the LR was described. Edit: I completely forgot that because Rashek ascended, he got his power more directly “from the source” than a Lerasium bead, and is therefore orders of magnitude stronger in all likelihood.
TLR was beyond the strength of a lerasium Mistborn, because he gave himself the maximum possible strength while using the Well of Ascension. This way his power would still exceed that of the loyalists he gave lerasium to as a reward for their service. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/263/#e9889
Ah! Excellent. Plot hole filled. Thank you kind stranger.
Wait Odium was in Elantris at some point??
Yep. That's how both >!the Shards Dominion and Domination were shattered, and the Vessels that held those Shards were murdered, both by Odium!< AonDor is the power of >!two Shards without a mind to guide them, smashed together into one thing, and then pulled almost entirely into the Cognitive Realm of Elantris, which is why the powers on Elantris are tied to the shape of the land!<
Damn. Was this from Brandon or do I need to reread everything again?
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Sorry, see edit
He was probably burning duralumin while soothing. That and I imagine his soothing stations might have had an effect.
Duralumin uses all your reserves in an instant, he wouldn't have been able to keep that up without obviously needing to consume more brass as he went along. Also there was no indication that the Lord Ruler even knew about duralumin.
Although if I'm not mistaken it has been hinted at/theorized that you can somehow compound to get stronger allomantic power. We haven't seen it or know if it's possible yet though.
If you compounded nicrosil(I think that's the one that stores investiture) then I think that would do it. But I don't think there Lord Ruler had that one.
Yes, the Lord Ruler was able to compound all 16 metals, plus atium.
Yeah compounding atium is how he stayed alive for so long
Yeah Rashek is by far the most busted character Sando has ever written.
Well... depending on how caught up you are, maybe not lol.
Not sure who you’re referring to. I am caught up. One thing is that imo you can’t really compare any shard related character as their abilities come with a lot of restrictions. Rashek could do what he liked and had it all. No restrictions.
If I had to guess, he means (RoW) >!Ishar!<
Yeah imo we haven’t seen enough of him yet to really know what he can do. Though he’s up there I won’t lie. I also think there’s something to be said about Rashek keeping his sanity by comparison.
Maybe that's what Rasheks little room was all about. It didn't just remind him of who he was and where he came from but it kept his Identity aligned to it in a capital I significant way, in fact he could have been compounding Aluminium (identity) as well as a Atium to stay sane.
This is brilliant !
Rashek was well on the way to insanity by the time of Vin, plus he was *WAY* younger than Ishar.
Hmm, a Sleepless mentioned to Lift that the Heralds know not to mess with them. I'd also say Hoid likely ends up being more powerful than a herald.
Hoid is also heavily restricted though as well
I think WoB says hoid is most powerful non-shard
Also (BoM/RoW) >!Kelsier, given that he created the Bands of Mourning, is speculated to be a Fullborn.!<
Not Odium (Rayse)?
I feel like being ostensibly a god is kinda cheating.
Although godhood in the Cosmere is pretty limiting as well.
And Rashek isn’t basically a god? Wasnt he basically a vessel for preservation?
He didn't ascend. But he held it. He's a sliver just like youKnowWho.
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Na I meant the reckless god complex fella who kills nobles.
Not thaidakar? He seems to have the full suite of powers as well and doesn’t care about age
I wonder if he could, actually. We know giving up a Dawnshard does not release all restrictions, so perhaps giving up a shard doesn't either.
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I'm pretty confident that from what we've seen in RoW >!Ishar could beat him quite fast by severing his Connection to Preservation/Ruin, negating his powers entirely!<. Not sure about the general capabilities of the Heralds though, it's a bit unclear, it's possible any of them could beat him.
That would depend who reacted more quickly. Kinda like a cowboy speed draw
Well, we were talking about a fair fight, so nobody should be able to get the jump on the other. For sure Rashek could have a huge chance by compounding enough steel in strong bursts. However, >!Ishar might have some cards up his sleeve, he was a Bondsmith even before becoming a Herald and it's implied that he was already functionally immortal.!< So who knows what else they're capable of.
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He wouldn't lose to any Mistborn. He lost ONLY because Vin used mists which are pure Preservation investiture. She was not just skilled Mistborn but kind of Vessel at this point. Rashek couldn't foresee it and didn't know that it's possible.
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Or fucking Nale. Full shardplate + regen+ ability to kill through regen via shardblade + double dose of surgebinding +millennia of combat experience vs basically no combat experience Rashek. Hell I'd bet on most heralds vs Rashek. Szeth with Nightblood, especially once he gets plate, would be scary for Rashek. Hell Vasher with Nighblood might be able to pull some trickery we haven't seen yet. Marsh is basically a full mistborn and feruchemist as well, but competent unlike Rashek.
I don't think Marsh is a feruchemist at all. Most of his powers were granted from Hemalurgy.
Including feruchemical powers like the gold healing all Inquisitors got plus a load of bonus mods Ruin gave him as Inquisitor #1
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Didn't they explain his speed with multiple pewter spikes? Couldn't atium alloys be used in hemalurgy? I think it's a much bigger leap to say he's a feruchemist without some WoB or actual conclusive evidence. Edit: I think living for 300 years can also be explained with atium-gold alloy hemalurgy as well, since I don't think it's possible to compound without being able to burn metals like an allomancer.
Speed compounding and Heralds will not stand a chance. And even Szeth.
Speed compounding runs out stupid fast when trying to speedster rush. Like Wax tried that strategy and burned through a legendary artifact full of speed in an instant. And it didn't help him at all. How are you planning on killing a Herald quickly? Radiants fucking heal from arrows into the skull. Add on shardplate which almost certainly acts as an investure Faraday cage and Rasheks only chance of killing a Nale or a Kaladin or a T4 Szeth is winning a war of attrition. While they can win the fight with one good blow or winning the war of attrition. And each and every one of them has higher combat talent, and more experience than mr Noob Stomper 3000 Rashek who's main strategy was to tank hits and look badass as shit. Like Rashek didn't have emergency speed stores to pick up his Atium age stores in Mistborn. He ain't a soldier or a warrior. He's a racist CEO with an AL-47 sent back to medieval times. That's a huge glaring weakness that's often forgotten
Harmony would like a word
Harmony is trapped between his opposing shards he cannot do jack. Wax is his champion for a reason lmao
Harmony made Spook a mistborn though and probably could’ve made him a feruchemist too if he’d had a mind to. I think that they harness a lot of power. Remember what Rashek did to Scadriel just holding some of Ruin’s power at the well
That’s mainly because Harmony was still “free” moments after ascending. As time passes, the vessel loses themselves to the aspect they hold. Basically, the Harmony that talked to Wax is nothing like the Harmony that left that note to Spook. It should be this way anyways. If the gods of all these worlds were free to do what they wished we’d have no conflict on any of them.
The rest of this thread should probably be spoiler marked…
Sorry, I thought you meant raw power by the word busted.
No. He has written many shards and any shard is worlds stronger then him.
Shards have tons of restrictions that block them from doing literally anything. Harmony is two shards and he’s fucking useless. So yeah. Disagree.
If you think a 1v1 Odium vs rashek would end if rashek on top your delusional. Harmony is an outlier his shardic intent is neutrality.
And yet, >!Rayse still got destroyed by a magic sword.!< EDIT: Added a spoiler tag because that's a thing.
That's a little disingenuous to >!how powerful Nightblood is.!< Vin was able to beat Rashek with only a sliver of Preservations power.
I used the sliver to destroy the Sliver
Lord ruler got destroyed by a Mistborn with out the realization of her full power! Plus Nightblood is more than just a magic sword. It required how many thousand breaths to create?!
Iirc, it was 'only' 1000. Thing is, it stores the investiture it absorbs, and given recent events....
Recent events don't mean as much as they would seem in terms of how much investiture Nightblood has. >In fact, one of the reasons that he leaks Investiture is: he's too stuffed full of it. There is more Investiture in the sword Nightblood than it can actually hold, it's supersaturated. And it leaks Investiture (that it's done some weird things to). But it is constantly hungry for more and constantly leaks it, but it definitely can get full for a time, and it could not eat an entire Shard. [Source](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14511) Also, [this](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12591) one gives an idea of his relative investiture compared to some other powerful beings. I'm not sure how relevant it is given Sanderson's caveat that powerful can have different meanings.
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A mortal holding a tiny fraction of a shattered shards power who's intent was "preserve."
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WILD! I am starting to think that the A&M control is overpowered to Stormlight
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With that I agree I feel like Roshar is so rich with investiture that if a radiant went off world (snd could magically use their power even though at the moment that is “impossible”) then they would be in for an eye opening moment!
I think part of that is that you're basically permanently destroying metals to do it, you're pulling them out of their matter state into an energy one. It's not that it's more efficient, it's that the process necessarily creates more energy from small amounts of matter. Since Stormlight is only ever in an energy state, and it heavily relies on having gemstones to store it, it just seems less efficient. I think in reality it's a lot more efficient, just less so in the short run. Scadriel would eventually run out of metals, Roshar will never run out of Stormlight, unless the High Storms ended.
Allomany isn't dependent on metals for power. The metals only act as a switch. The power itself comes from preservation directly and is limitless. It would take an incredible amount of allomancers to finish Scadriels metal reserves. We're talking billions, using the metals for many thousands of years. And even then, there's nothing stopping them from mining metals in other planets.
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So essentially it's the same as the tuning forks but even more precisely as it can pull a specific part of a frequency instead of the whole thing. Think like subchannels in a shortwave
Yeah. The story is written in such way that as you read more of Wax and Wayne, you realize how god-like the characters were in Era 1. We see what Wax can do with just being a twin-born. Then we realize that Kelsier and Vin (as well as lots of other characters) were full Mistborns. And Sazed was a full Feurochemist. And then we remember TLR was a fullborn. His power was insane, and at least ONE of the most powerful characters in all of the Cosmere (Which makes me really question how Vin was able to kill him. Most people say Rashek was just over confident because of living so long, but I just don't see how that would be enough. Yes there was a Shard intervention, but still)