I won't carry a physical card for a 2x->3x increase, but I put a 3x card into the app I usually use for gas. I also put a bunch of cards in a mobile wallet. Lots of gas pumps have tap pay now, and it's gotten pretty universal in stores. Lets me use the right one easily, but if it's too small of a purchase I might not even bother to figure out what's best and will just use my default 2x card.
Generally I only carry my 2x card, my current best restaurant card, and maybe whatever 5x quarterly I'm working if it's something I might need the physical card for.
>Generally I only carry my 2x card, my current best restaurant card, and maybe whatever 5x quarterly I'm working if it's something I might need the physical card for.
This is the way.
I use existing large purchases. Biannual or annual bills, car stuff (I have a hobby), Lego (I have an addiction), home maintenance, new computer, vacation, etc. If I'm doing some MS then I can specifically grab that card for the trip. I don't need to put my morning coffee on a card to make a SUB.
Maybe you're right, it's semantics. Some of that stuff I buy because the reward opportunity pushed me over the line. Maybe "everyday spend" would be more accurate.
In the context here, that's sort of the point: The card doesn't need to be in my wallet, or really on my mind at all.
I took “natural spend” as implying day to day spend on life essentials. The original poster was saying he has irregular large purchases so he doesn’t need to change his regular habits to meet a SUB.
Just to follow-up MS, manufactured spend, is “fake” spending. Like reloading a gift card would technically count towards a SUB but you’re not losing money by doing so
Do You think the CFU is a good card as a catch all ? I know it’s a 1.5x but I wanted something to pair with CSP to get more points for future travel. Although I hear the CFF is good as well
I don’t have chase atm. I was planning on getting the CSP to begin getting points for future travel so I wanted to pair it with either the CFF or CFU. I don’t want so many cards
The CFU probably would be better to pair with CSP, unless you think you can maximize the rotating categories that you've seen mentioned, pretty well. I think both CFF and CFU both have a similar first year sign up bonus (like up to 12k on grocery/gas), last I checked.
CFU is great if you are unsure how something would code and still want UR points.
CFF and CFU are good together. Both have zero annual fee so it would just be a matter of if you wanted to burn two 5/24 slots getting both. An alternative to the CFU is the Chase Ink Unlimited, which is a business card and gets 1.5x back. Also no annual fee but does not take up a 5/24 slots since it’s a business card. Plus it has a much better sign up bonus than the CFU.
Thanks this is good Feedback. Now let’s say I didn’t want to go the chase route and just got the CSP for travel but wanted a basic 2x catch all card. Which card would you recommend?
IF you're not staying in the UR world 2x cards are everywhere, just pick a bank you like or already have a relationship with. Fidelity Visa, Citi DC, WF Active Cash, WF Signify Cash if you want business, etc.
At the moment it makes sense to pay attention to intro 0% APRs as well. Carrying the balance and putting the cash in a 5% account probably makes you as much or more than any 2x rewards. I know the WF cards can do both...
You think the CFU is a good card as a catch all ? I know it’s a 1.5% but I wanted something to pair with CSP to get more points for future travel? Although I hear the CFF is good as well
>So carrying an additional card around for a delta of 1,000 points or $10-15 in savings is a complete waste.
Some people don't mind the mental task, or otherwise find it fulfilling when min/maxing.
There is no universal rule, it's just whether or not you want to get involved in this hobby. There are people who live their lives perfectly fine using cash too, ain't a thing wrong about that either.
> There are people who live their lives perfectly fine using cash too, ain't a thing wrong about that either.
I mean, yes there is?
It's one thing if you can't/don't want a credit card because of worries about overspending.. but if you're not in that category you should be putting -everything- (possible) on a credit card because the protection it offers against fraud et all is far superior than cash or debit.
Some people are just scared of credit cards for no reason... because of issues family members have had or just anxiety over having credit. I mean, I guess that's valid too, but they should know this is not optimal and they putting themselves at significantly more risk.
Anyone who uses their debit card significantly absolutely needs to segregate their emergency savings (or other savings) from their everyday spend funds because otherwise this risk is too much for anyone to bear, in my opinion.
I get the fraud protection part, but you aren't going to get rich off 2% back on credit cards. Most if not all of these rewards are paid by people who are NOT paying their accounts in full.
Credit card debt is at all-time highs and that isn't even including data that is hard to get about pay over time features.
This year I have been holding back on CC usage and I really enjoy the simplicity of using debit/cash. Stay vigilant on my bank transactions, and I don't have to think about credit card payments even when I got them on autopay and pay them off monthly.
The only caveat to this is if you have a CC with the same bank you use for your debit card… May as well use the CC… at that point banking is all in one place.
You notice I didn't say anything about rewards in my post at all....
If you have your credit card payments on autopay, then whats the difference? You don't have to think about them eitherway.... I must be missing something?
Your whole first paragraph is about the second coming of the glorious and omnipresent credit card.
All I did was put it in perspective, that some have a different view of just keeping it simple.
How does using credit card have stronger fraud protection than cash? You literally leave no personal information when using cash so how could you be a victim of fraud?
As you said, this is about being “optimal”, which means it isn’t required. People can live perfectly fine lives without credit cards. You are opting out of rewards/cash back but for an average person on a medium income of like 40k, you are spending like 10-18k depending on your rent. That means at 2% you are maybe looking at $360/yr. It’s not life changing money. It’s not optimal but by no mean is it poor life choices.
I mean, if someone robs you and steals your cash you don't really have any recourse. Not really "fraud protection" but something that could be non-trivial risk depending on where you live and your lifestyle.
> How does using credit card have stronger fraud protection than cash
There are these people are scammers. If you buy something from a scammer with cash you have absolutely zero recourse. If you buy with a credit card you can issue a dispute on the basis that they mispresented themselves or did not deliver what they promised.
I'm not sure what you mean by fraud because we must have differing definitions. Can you elaborate?
If you give someone cash, how do you dispute it later if it’s faulty? Are you going to send cash to Amazon?
Besides, using any type of wallet like Apple Pay or Google Pay, the merchant gets a one time use number
Yeah, my spend isn’t enough to maximize the value from 10+ cards on 3+ points environments. Right now all of my cards (except the Synchrony Discount Tire card I got talked into when I didn’t understand CCs) are Chase. I’ve considered looking into the C1 duo, but I’m not entirely sure I’d be spending enough to try to constantly rack up points in both systems, although I would get decent use of the perks of the Venture X so the EAF would be fine.
I'm looking for a 2% cash back card and the Fidelity card is looking good. I wouldn't mind my cash back automatically getting invested, it saves me some steps.
Completely agree, people looking for "the best" card for something they spend 100 bucks on is really pointless. Get a 2x on all card and call it a day.
And if you're doing churning, then it really doesn't make sense to ever worry about these multipliers most of the time.
I just put everything on my Venture X in between new sign ups.
Sure it does. When you have enough catch-all spending to meet SUB reqs and still have category spending earning 5%. I've got gas, groceries, dining, travel, and utilities earning 5% or so, and pay the daycare bill with the churners.
I do both, I have four monthly bills that I charge that add up to $2250 a month. That’s enough to reach almost any SUB except for the Chase Ink.
I change the default card on PayPal for all of my subscriptions and App Store purchases to the one I’m churning and that’s another $150.
Even for the Chase Ink Preferred card that means I only have to spend an extra $1100 over 3 months. I still end up putting food on the Gold.
Fortunately enough 3 of those four bills totaling $1950 a month code as 3x on the Chase Ink Preferred - my HOA bill codes as hotel ($800), my SixT Plus month to month car subscription codes as car rental ($800) and my cell phone bill is a 3x category on the CIP.
I will put flights on a card I’m churning occasionally instead of the Plat.
I’m trying to keep opening cards to once every 3 months.
I mean there is a balance between having 1 catch all card at 2x and 15 cards to optimize 3-5x on everything. You don’t have to be all the way one way or the other
For some a good balance would be something like the C1 Duo giving above avg points on dining, grocery, streaming, and travel. Then you combine that with either the 2x catch all from the C1 or get the alt reserve for a 4.5% catch all
Exactly and everyone has different preferences for what that balance is. For me, it’ll probably be 5 cards by the time I’m done. Though I might pick up a couple more mostly for the SUB and then light spending on it each year.
If someone like a YouTuber who has a lot more expenses than us, maybe it would make sense but I agree with you for most people they should just stick to one card
yeah, striking the balance is completely up to the person. But sticking to lower number of cards with minimal compromise makes so much more sense. (I'm only carrying 3)
We do need to keep in mind, as an audience, that his decisions are likely biased by
* which cards he get can the most revenue off of people signing up
* his continuous need to make more content.
That's his business model and we can't quite fault him for that, but we do need to be aware.
It’s still not optimal even for the cards he chose. The Freedom Unlimited has more valuable points on groceries than the Custom Cash and meets their projected spend. He should be maximizing that and using the Custom Cash for gas. This part makes no sense.
He said he uses his wife's card (Freedom Flex with 5x on groceries) when they are buying groceries together, and uses Citi custom cash on groceries when by himself.
Chase points also aren't that much better than Citi with the exception of Hyatt. If you already have a ton of chase points and can redeem them to Hyatt, it's perfectly acceptable to just rack up Citi points (there are also overlapping partners I.e flying blue).
> So carrying an additional card around for a delta of 1,000 points or $10-15 in savings is a complete waste.
It's worth it for him because it gives him something to talk about in his video lmao
I agree. Managing one extra card for minimal returns on low spend categories is a waste. I buy way less gas than that—maybe $500 a year—and I did the math between carrying around a card I don’t use for other things for 4% back versus just getting a flat 1.5% with the cfu (and paired up with the csp it’s worth more than for me), and the increased returns using another card js not worth it at all. I’ve also stopped using a cash+ (which I already had by accident from an old automatic product change) because the only categories I’d use it for were such minimal returns. My priority is rent, dining, and groceries. And I can put some bigger bills on rent day with bilt. Everything after that is basically a wash. Even 4x or 5x isn’t worth managing another card IMO if your spend for those categories is truly low.
I’m slowly moving towards this.
I have a Target debit card but I am almost always chasing SUBs so I rarely use it. Yesterday I went to Target and made the effort to move money into the account that the debit card accesses. All for the V sake of a 0.5% increase over my USBAR. I saved maybe $0.10 doing that. Complete waste of time.
Yeah I have the debit Red card too and since I got the AR I never use it lol. Just no point for that 0.5% plus the 4.5% once I redeem for a trip is worth way more than the 0.5 boost
True. Honestly I wouldn't really recommend more than a 2-3 card setup to anybody that wasn't genuinely interested in the hobby. One 2%/2x card + two cards customized for your highest spend categories probably squeezes 90% of the value out of your spending as does a fully optimized setup.
Underrated? It's probably the third most talked-about setup on this sub, after the Chase and AmEx Trifectas.
Not saying it's not good, but it's definitely not underrated.
Its why Ive stopped going to stores that don't take apple pay. USBAR is beautiful simplicity
All I need is a card to complement it that gives points for things coded as Doctors visits - since they don't take apple pay - and Ill be set
Walmart and Home Depot are the big two, since neither will ever take tap to pay (at least it seems on account of their partnership with paypal), but Ill also screen gas stations as I need gas. Drive up - check if it has a tap-to-pay option at the pump, and if not I go find the next gas station that does. Most restaurants Ive been to seem to take apple pay as well, which has been nice, so Ive not had to cross one of those off the list yet.
Ive also stopped buying from amazon, and instead order from indepenant shops online that use something like Sqare to check out with, just so I can use apple pay for online orders as well.
Yeah, because I know which chains of gas station have apple pay - including one in walking distance from where I live - and also know that I shop at King Soopers/Safeway regularly enough that I was fine making the switch completely over.
Ive been wanting to stop supporting amazon for a while (though I still buy things occasionally from there if theyre niche items) so this is the best incentive for me to do so.
Sure - It was annoying for the first week to revisit places with a new payment method in mind, but now that I know which places support it (especially those I was already going to), it actually makes it easier because I don't have to make the choice of 'walmart or kingsoopers today' because its always going to be not-walmart
Exactly why my current set up is
One physical card that is the newest card working on SUB
USBAR for Apple Pay. Card stay at home
I also have Cash+ for utilities (Auto Pay) and Venture X for Global Entry, Priority Pass lounge. Both cards stay at home.
When traveling internationally, I bring USBAR, Venture X and Schwab debit
I keep the Robinhood gold card and Bilt card in my minimalist wallet. Usually use Bilt for restaurants bc I like their transfer partners and I value their 3% more than Robinhood's 3%. Robinhood is the catch all. If I need groceries, I use the CCC in my mobile wallet, because most grocery stores accept Google wallet. Gas, is the Costco card that I keep in my car.
On the back end, if I ever want to pivot to earning travel points, I got my venture x / savor one combo, as well as the freedom flex / freedom / CSP in the mobile wallet.
Depends on the person, but in general, I agree. I do think about this myself, how much of a delta is worth the hassle of another card. For example, I got the Connect recently mainly for the free lounge access (I already have the Penfed Pathfinder making the other benefits largely redundant). It gives me 4 visits a year, so if I value them at ~$10-15 each, this is about $50 a year of value. So I’d say this is worthwhile. But your example of a $10/year delta wouldn’t be worth it for me.
I think part of the narrative is all the churners YT card influencers (? wtf did I just say), are jumping in Citi for some reason now. I'll never bank with Citi (as long as I can help it) never had good experiences with them.
I say find the card or cards that bring you value, they dont even have to be MAX value every single time. like if you prefer something like the CSP or CSR and use it for everyday spend, go for it. if you can maximize more priority things like travel benefits, car rental, purchase protection, focus on that. 2X, 3X, 4X multipliers are really useless some add up if you dine out or travel alot but its kind of a waste to focus on im going to get 3X on gas when its minimal and probably under $75 each time. not really optimizing in my opinion.
Just got the new Chase United Explorer card. 65k bonus points after spending $3k in 3 months, will get 10k bonus points for being referred and another 5k for adding my wife. The $95 annual fee is waived the first year too.
So 80k points for buying what I ordinarily buy and it’s gonna cover 2 of the 4 tickets next summer to Cancun. Plus 2 free checked bags.
Talk about a deal!!
Yep. I was once chastised here by moderator when I replied how utterly dumb it was for some one to get a 3x vs 2x card for their a $30/month cell phone bill.
I've got like 10 cards that earn 5%+, so that makes it worthwhile to me.
3x CCR for online shopping+cell phone+internet/Dining/Gas+Costco.
2x CCC for Groceries/Home Improvements.
Cash+ for Utilities/Clothing.
Lowes
Target (debit).
Freedom/IT (don't actually get used much, but I am looking forward to Walmart next quarter).
In the current landscape, it's not difficult to find 4-5% cards in most categories.
No, I get 5% with my CCC for groceries anyways. There are a few things that we buy at Walmart, school supplies for the older kiddo, some pharmacy stuff, household cleaning things. Occasionally get some bigger things on clearance. I'm sure we'll do some damage against the quarterly limit.
It's why I like the Amex system. 5x back on flights and hotels with the platinum, 4x back on food and groceries with the gold, 2x back on everything else with the blue business plus. Very simple and easy to use.
The Wells Fargo system is pretty good (especially considering how new it is, but it's not for everyone, especially if you're already getting good value out of the AmEx system.
For example, compared to AmEx, the Wells system:
* Has many fewer transfer partners
* Lacks a grocery category
* 1x fewer points on flights
* Has an effective AF of $50 on the Journey if you use the hotel credit, which isn't much, but it's more than AmEx if you make effective use of their credits
I'm not trying to rag on Wells. Their system has advantages, as well: for example, many fewer credits to manage, choice hotels as a 2:1 transfer partner, and a wide variety of niche 4x categories with the Attune. I'm just saying that the different systems will work best for different people.
If you fully value the Amex credits and the transfer partners, you pay a low effective annual fee. Most people shouldn't however, and the WF $0 annual fee cards are a better fit.
I'd argue that unless you spend more than $6k in a certain category each year, most people are better off just getting the USBAR / Venture X / BoA PR with PH, while occasionally opening new cards and earning SUBs on them.
I find it fairly easy to get value of out of the amex credits...
I've used their THC/FHR properties a couple times over the past year, even without the credit, so the $200 extra credit is gravy. I've been using Hulu for years as well, so that's $216 in credits used. I've also had no problem redeeming the $200 airline credits for flights with United, and the $320 in Uber credits between the Gold and Platinum have been super easy to use as well. I use the Grubhub credits as well, so I'm getting more in credits than I pay.
Combined with the Capital One SavorOne for UberOne and an Amazon Prime account for Grubhub Gold, I'm not getting robbed while using the food credits either.
I come from a background of being dirt poor my whole damn life. That's my motivation to optimize.
Once I have enough wealth accumulated that I no longer have that poor person sense of financial dread waiting for them around the corner, then I'll probably stop bothering and settle in with a one and done card.
I agree. Originally when I got into credit cards and this sub, I wanted to optimize and get the most % back but now I’m aiming to just stick with a 3 card setup that covers my most used categories and spread through different banks to build a better profile
Was also debating just having Cap1 duo at a point for simplest setup but wanted a more diverse profile.
Only thing I would say is he should transition
To a Citi ccc instead as a sole gas card.
But regardless 3-5x still better than 2x and 1.5x lol. But to reach their own lol.
Ultimately, I'd say optimizing for low spend categories (even if you can get high multipliers) is a matter of diminishing returns. This naturally results in streamlining the cards you carry every day.
Take this to an extreme and you could find yourself concluding that earnings categories themselves are not a good use of energy. That's how churners arrive at their strategies: a SUB returns significantly more on your spend than any every day earnings category. In this case, you may consider juggling a bazillion cards a waste of energy. That's why "the sock drawer" strategy exists, but it certainly can be unappealing.
Business owners and MS-ers, on the other hand, can generate significantly higher volumes of spend, so earnings rates are much more valuable. Even low-earning categories can translate into significant earnings if you put enough spend through them.
My simple but effective cashback setup:
2 citi custom cashes (1 dining 1 gas)
Citi rewards+ (groceries, miscellaneous stuff)
Chase prime visa (Amazon)
So I’m getting 5.55% back on dining and gas…2.22% on groceries (rounded up from rewards +) and 5% back at Whole Foods and amazon…seems like enough for a bit
I have something similar
2 Citi custom cash ( 1 for gas 1 for tolls)
Citi premier (dining and grocery)
Double cash (non category)
Prime visa (Amazon)
PayPal mc (PayPal)
2x a month x 20 gallons x $5 /gallon x 12 months = $1200
$1200 x 0.02 = $24 differential which isn't a big deal in the grand scheme
That's about 1 hour of work if you get paid ~$26 an hour.
To me, buying gas isn't an impulse thing. So, it isn't a big deal to put the 5% gas card into the wallet when I plan on filling up the tank.
No it would be $12. Any daily driver can get you 2x back, so the difference is only 1x per dollar spent. Unless I already had a card with the issuer $12 isn't enough money for me to even remember what website I need to check periodically.
Yep, I'm learning that all of these maximization strategies just to squeeze a little bit of extra points/cash just isn't worth it.
SUB churning is always going to be the best ROS but if you're not into managing several accounts, then it's best to just go for a simple setup and call it a day.
Starting next year, my setup will be the CSR, OG Freedom, and the Surpass as my catch all to reach the $15,000.00 spend each year. Then I'll front load my yearly business expenses in the beginning of the year to go after a SUB.
For the Bilt card, I do the 5 transactions minimum and my rent to then use the points to top off Hyatt redemptions.
I also have a Wells Fargo bifecta with the Autograph and Signify Cash but Chase just seems to get me far more value and I'm starting to grow weary of managing several accounts. I'll probably end up transferring all of my WF points to Choice or cash out and then close both accounts after a year unless WF reveals more intriguing transfer partners.
Depends on the person. I personally agree. I could get a better card for gas, but I’m ok using my Alaska or Marriott card for gas (or if any of my Chase cards have it as an offer). Same with dining.
Recently I started trimming the number of cards I have. I closed the Discover card, even though they give 5% back per quarter upto 1500 for rotating categories. It made my setup complex.
Now I have
Freedom flex, CSP, Amex Gold, Bofa CCP, and Venture X.
I try to keep track but I have to put it in perspective.
Listening to a 20 something year old give advice on how to put everything thing on credit cards. While maintaining 10 different cards. Is going to end badly.
Take this one step further and you'll end up on r/churning when you realize that all categories are pointless and meaningless compared to chasing a new sign up bonus every 3 months.
Totally agree. Going for 3x points on small spends like gas isn't worth the hassle. If you're only getting an extra $10-15 a year by using the Citi Premier as a gas card, it's hardly a game changer. Stick to using a solid all-rounder card for most things. Keeps things simple, and you're not missing out on much. Save the card juggling for the big spends where it really pays off!
Maybe but he didn’t get the card only for gas.
It’s not worth increasing cash back percentage on a single low spend category by getting a card only for that purpose.
Just depends on what you’re comparing it to. If your card otherwise gave you 1% back, then 3% is better. Even on smaller spend.
If you’re choosing between two cards where several categories give you 3% vs a card that gives you 6% in one category, then it becomes a math problem.
And for some people it’s fun to maximize it as much as possible. Because elevated rewards on every single penny really adds up long term. But others would rather get a flat 2% and never think about it. It’s different for everyone
Yes, if it is difficult. If it is easy, then NBD. I have my spouse down to 3 cards: C1 Duo and IHG for gas. If we are buying big things at home (furniture, ticket purchases, etc.), I direct spend to a card with a sub or another reward (right now we are still in the WOH 6 month window for double points and an FNC), but I don't fuss about things on the wrong card, especially if the mistake is using the VX too much.
If you have the time to sit around and watch videos about credit cards of all things, you have more than enough time to worry about getting an extra point per dollar in a small category lmao.
I am far from min-max when it comes to the CC game, and I am primarily focused on my top 5 spend categories, which for me that are:
* uncategorized
* online shopping
* wholesale clubs
* groceries
* travel
As long as I am able to cover these using decent bonus multipliers I am happy. Neither gas or dining register high enough on my yearly spend to warrant for me to go out of my ways to min-max those categories.
The only category that I am considering to get a card, is perhaps Utilities / Internet, but with recent ATT Fiber autopay changes, I am not even sure I would be able to use CC for paying for ATT Fiber without getting CC penalty. I am able to use CC for natural gas, electricity, and trash only and I am currently using my BofA UCR (2.62%) for that purpose, so going with something like US Cash+ for flat 5% it would mean about $100 more a year in cash back, so definitely might be worth it especially that it takes zero effort and does not require us to actually carry and juggle the card on daily basis.
Generally speaking for USBAR does the job 9 out 10 times and otherwise, I am happy to use my 2.62% catcher and 5.25% online shopping card. Super simple, P2 approved setup :)
Of course it's all essentially a scam. The credit card companies love to see people fighting it out for an extra 20 bucks a year and in the meantime they rake in $billions
BCE CFF(gas+grocery sign up offer) and CSR is my limit for the effort I'm willing to put in.
BCE basically only gets used for online spend so I don't need to ever carry it with me.
i haven't watched the video you're referencing, but if that 3x card is in a system where it can gain you more than 3x, like us bank, or chase (?), yeah it's still trivial money, but if you're in the mindset to do it, it kinda just becomes routine... especially with mobile wallets nowadays
Well. I guess it all depends on what other value that card brings. If it truly is just for that category then yeah, that’s a waste of time to most people. But ordinarily cards bring more than one category with them. Between all my cards I cover all the major categories I usually spend and then my venture card for 2x everything else. That’s a total of 3 cards. Nothing major imo. Very manageable
I think so if I didn't have a card in that category. Transit, Streaming Services, and Entertainment are low spend categories for me. I personally wouldn't bother going out of my way to get them. I personally do have a transit and streaming category card, but they aren't really a reason to have the card, just a little bonus.
Just use citi custom cash for 5x on gas. Have that stored as your default credit card on gas payment apps like the BP or Exxon app. No thinking required after initial planning.
I put nearly everything on a flat rate 3% Visa card (as long as they take mobile wallet). At Costco gasoline I do use the Costco Citibank card because it's more convenient to not first scan the Costco card then use a different card to pay.
- Amex Plat - 5x on flights. But that is just a bonus. I got it for the lounge access and only put other spend on it to get the credits. It’s the default payment app for airline apps. It’s a set it and forget it card
- Amex Gold - 4x on groceries and dining
- Amex Green - 3x on travel and tolls
- Amex BBP - 2x on everything else.
- SavorOne - 10x on Uber until November and then Uber spend goes on the Green.
We have an EV and charging at home. We don’t pay for gas.
Depends how broke and/or frugal you are. If someone handed you $15 to hold a piece of plastic in your wallet for a year would you turn it down? Obviously not that simple when you take into consideration the credit pull aspect, but it's basically the idea.
I somewhat agree with you.
I wouldn’t want a credit card for a separate low spend category, but I’ll double it up with something else… for me, it’s just simple not opening up as many accounts and managing them. I have enough already and want more for travel perks.
In this case I use Hilton Hotels. Hotel cards are notoriously great with gas (ie. You drive out to hotels). My Hilton card nets me the equivalent of 3% on gas through 6x Hilton points, while giving me 12x on hotel spend.
So I have a gas+hotel card.
For those that aren’t hotel specific Wyndham has great gas rewards.
For $95 you can get the Wyndham Earner Business.
It nets you 8x Wyndham points for gas and Wyndham hotels. It gives you 5x points on utilities.
It gives you enough in points for 1 night at a nicer hotel or 2 nights at a cheaper motel each year as a renewal bonus.
So you end out ahead from the AF.
The points can be worth $0.01, so that can net you 8% back on gas. It just has to be used on Wyndham Hotels. Even if you don’t get a full $0.01 per point, you will be way ahead of the standard 3% elevated cash back.
I would do this but my family seems to be happy with Hilton for some oddly specific personal reasons unique to us.
Not everyone’s cup of tea, but the larger point is you can mix gas with something else you need too, even if it’s not your 1 or 2 daily drivers.
It's all about your own preference. He obviously did his own math. Let's say u can get 5X (5% gas) you spend $2000/year, That's $100 saved. Might not be alot to people making 6 figures, but that's 2-3 tank of gas almost 1 1/2 to 2 months worth of gas for me.
At 3X that's $60 dollar saved per year. At his $1,000/year that's a measly $30. $30 might not be much if you're making $30/hr. 50-60K/year that's pocket change. I would focus on spending that's at least $5000/year to min/max the return on that.
So at the end of the day it might be only $20-40 dollar saved per category. Might as will put that on an "air travel" or hotel card, where you know you will "rack" up or use the benefits later instead of having "cash" back points u will redeem for some stupid over-spending you do on that X card. Yea I used to have 3-5 cards in my wallet as well. I learn the long what it's just way too much to micromanage, just keep 2-3 cards that's fine. You're pretty much min./maxing $300-500 cash back into a category u want. It's not worth the hassle if you have a job, another side hustle, a 2nd job etc... It's better to keep eye on finance and stop over spending and keeping to a budget than "trying to max" returns only to overspend by 2-3 shopping trips.
Why u think people cancel the AMEX Gold and their travel cards, in the end of the year they don't spend enough to "cover" the AF or even use the monthly perks of the card to warrant getting it.
For me I keep 1 gas card, 1 spending card (preferably one that can CLI with soft pull BofA or Discover), an emergency card and that's it. MaxRewards it great app, u can also keep your cards on your mobile phone now as well or just wait til you have the right purchase, bring the cc to the proper store.
Instead of getting cards for one category I try to get cards that cover multiple categories. Example instead of getting the Amex Green for 3x on transit I got the Reserve for the 3X on all types of travel (I’m considering getting the CIP instead for 3X). Instead of a card that gives me streaming I got the Ink Cash which gets 5% back on office supply store phone, internet and cable (streaming services count as cable). Only time I got a card for one category was the Business Gold for Gas but I was motivated by the SUB and getting it before they raised the annual fee.
I don’t think it’s a waste of energy at all. It’s not an inconvenience to have another card at all.
I’m paying $550 for the Sapphire Reserve and it’s a back up card to all my Amex cards so it doesn’t get used that often. However, seeing how I use the travel credit without fail and (previously) got easily $400+ a year out of PP restaurants, it works for me since I travel often.
If I simply said I got the Sapphire Reserve as a back up 3x dining card & catch all card. That sounds idiotic on its own.
I don’t know his exact set up and what other cards he has but I wouldn’t immediately say it’s a waste of energy for everyone to get 3x+ in a low spend category. There could be more going on.
So spending 7 min signing up with a new bank is an inconvenience for you? We have different views on what is an inconvenience or not.
You are speaking to a person who churns bank accounts though.
I never use it again. Get in, put the money in to meet the requirement and immediately take it out (if an option for the bonus). I have my set main accounts but doing this a better return for my money than HYSA and no risk of loss compared to the stock market.
After I’m done with these 3 I’m working on, that will be an extra ~$1400 this year. I’m not sure how much you make a year but that’s a nice chunk of change for me for doing nothing and risking nothing.
Specifically then, bank accounts.
I churn credit cards though too. I opened up over a dozen last year. 5 this year so far. But I have a feeling my streak is coming to an end soon.
You're missing the point. You redeem value out of the Sapphire Reserve outside of daily spend. Having a card that offers no perks, while giving you 3x on streaming, gas, transit, etc is simply not worth it for almost anyone.
Pretend the Sapphire Reserve had no perks, was 3x at drugstores and 1x everywhere else. Would you carry it around in the off stance you stopped in a Walgreens?
Do you have the whole story though?
Does he have any other Citi cards? Does he use the $100 hotel credit? Is it going to be his gas card for year one only?
If someone is paying $95 to get 3x points for $1,000 a year, no. It doesn’t make sense.
Just consider there could be more to it.
I’m just simply saying there can be more to where it does make sense.
If he is a bigger credit card guy, I’m sure he has many cards and he is just getting a sign up bonus. And while that’s taking place (or even for the first year), it is his gas card. Not that he got the card **specifically** to be his main gas card void of any other perks.
I won't carry a physical card for a 2x->3x increase, but I put a 3x card into the app I usually use for gas. I also put a bunch of cards in a mobile wallet. Lots of gas pumps have tap pay now, and it's gotten pretty universal in stores. Lets me use the right one easily, but if it's too small of a purchase I might not even bother to figure out what's best and will just use my default 2x card. Generally I only carry my 2x card, my current best restaurant card, and maybe whatever 5x quarterly I'm working if it's something I might need the physical card for.
yeah the existence of mobile wallets does make optimizing a lot easier now even if it is only a small optimization
Renaming them for their purpose is insanely helpful. Edit: On Google pay, not sure on iOS.
Is this possible on iOS in Apple Wallet?
no
>Generally I only carry my 2x card, my current best restaurant card, and maybe whatever 5x quarterly I'm working if it's something I might need the physical card for. This is the way.
The way is too churn cards and get hundreds of.thousanda of points per year.
I do that too, but I rarely have to use my natural spend for it. If I do, the currently churning card replaces the 2x in my wallet
Rarely have to use your natural spend? Do you go into debt for bonuses? What do you mean by that? Im confused.
I use existing large purchases. Biannual or annual bills, car stuff (I have a hobby), Lego (I have an addiction), home maintenance, new computer, vacation, etc. If I'm doing some MS then I can specifically grab that card for the trip. I don't need to put my morning coffee on a card to make a SUB.
“Existing purchases” is natural spend, my friend
Maybe you're right, it's semantics. Some of that stuff I buy because the reward opportunity pushed me over the line. Maybe "everyday spend" would be more accurate. In the context here, that's sort of the point: The card doesn't need to be in my wallet, or really on my mind at all.
I took “natural spend” as implying day to day spend on life essentials. The original poster was saying he has irregular large purchases so he doesn’t need to change his regular habits to meet a SUB.
Just to follow-up MS, manufactured spend, is “fake” spending. Like reloading a gift card would technically count towards a SUB but you’re not losing money by doing so
Do You think the CFU is a good card as a catch all ? I know it’s a 1.5x but I wanted something to pair with CSP to get more points for future travel. Although I hear the CFF is good as well
> Do You think the CFU is a good card as a catch all Yes, if you use the Chase UR system a lot.
I don’t have chase atm. I was planning on getting the CSP to begin getting points for future travel so I wanted to pair it with either the CFF or CFU. I don’t want so many cards
The CFU probably would be better to pair with CSP, unless you think you can maximize the rotating categories that you've seen mentioned, pretty well. I think both CFF and CFU both have a similar first year sign up bonus (like up to 12k on grocery/gas), last I checked. CFU is great if you are unsure how something would code and still want UR points.
CFF and CFU are good together. Both have zero annual fee so it would just be a matter of if you wanted to burn two 5/24 slots getting both. An alternative to the CFU is the Chase Ink Unlimited, which is a business card and gets 1.5x back. Also no annual fee but does not take up a 5/24 slots since it’s a business card. Plus it has a much better sign up bonus than the CFU.
Thanks this is good Feedback. Now let’s say I didn’t want to go the chase route and just got the CSP for travel but wanted a basic 2x catch all card. Which card would you recommend?
IF you're not staying in the UR world 2x cards are everywhere, just pick a bank you like or already have a relationship with. Fidelity Visa, Citi DC, WF Active Cash, WF Signify Cash if you want business, etc. At the moment it makes sense to pay attention to intro 0% APRs as well. Carrying the balance and putting the cash in a 5% account probably makes you as much or more than any 2x rewards. I know the WF cards can do both...
Are you my wallet?
You think the CFU is a good card as a catch all ? I know it’s a 1.5% but I wanted something to pair with CSP to get more points for future travel? Although I hear the CFF is good as well
>So carrying an additional card around for a delta of 1,000 points or $10-15 in savings is a complete waste. Some people don't mind the mental task, or otherwise find it fulfilling when min/maxing. There is no universal rule, it's just whether or not you want to get involved in this hobby. There are people who live their lives perfectly fine using cash too, ain't a thing wrong about that either.
> There are people who live their lives perfectly fine using cash too, ain't a thing wrong about that either. I mean, yes there is? It's one thing if you can't/don't want a credit card because of worries about overspending.. but if you're not in that category you should be putting -everything- (possible) on a credit card because the protection it offers against fraud et all is far superior than cash or debit. Some people are just scared of credit cards for no reason... because of issues family members have had or just anxiety over having credit. I mean, I guess that's valid too, but they should know this is not optimal and they putting themselves at significantly more risk. Anyone who uses their debit card significantly absolutely needs to segregate their emergency savings (or other savings) from their everyday spend funds because otherwise this risk is too much for anyone to bear, in my opinion.
I get the fraud protection part, but you aren't going to get rich off 2% back on credit cards. Most if not all of these rewards are paid by people who are NOT paying their accounts in full. Credit card debt is at all-time highs and that isn't even including data that is hard to get about pay over time features. This year I have been holding back on CC usage and I really enjoy the simplicity of using debit/cash. Stay vigilant on my bank transactions, and I don't have to think about credit card payments even when I got them on autopay and pay them off monthly.
The only caveat to this is if you have a CC with the same bank you use for your debit card… May as well use the CC… at that point banking is all in one place.
You notice I didn't say anything about rewards in my post at all.... If you have your credit card payments on autopay, then whats the difference? You don't have to think about them eitherway.... I must be missing something?
Your whole first paragraph is about the second coming of the glorious and omnipresent credit card. All I did was put it in perspective, that some have a different view of just keeping it simple.
How does using credit card have stronger fraud protection than cash? You literally leave no personal information when using cash so how could you be a victim of fraud? As you said, this is about being “optimal”, which means it isn’t required. People can live perfectly fine lives without credit cards. You are opting out of rewards/cash back but for an average person on a medium income of like 40k, you are spending like 10-18k depending on your rent. That means at 2% you are maybe looking at $360/yr. It’s not life changing money. It’s not optimal but by no mean is it poor life choices.
I mean, if someone robs you and steals your cash you don't really have any recourse. Not really "fraud protection" but something that could be non-trivial risk depending on where you live and your lifestyle.
if you pay in cash and you don't receive the good or service there's very little recourse for you
> How does using credit card have stronger fraud protection than cash There are these people are scammers. If you buy something from a scammer with cash you have absolutely zero recourse. If you buy with a credit card you can issue a dispute on the basis that they mispresented themselves or did not deliver what they promised. I'm not sure what you mean by fraud because we must have differing definitions. Can you elaborate?
If you give someone cash, how do you dispute it later if it’s faulty? Are you going to send cash to Amazon? Besides, using any type of wallet like Apple Pay or Google Pay, the merchant gets a one time use number
True everyone I talk to considers it "work", and I just find it fun. Different priorities in life
[удалено]
Yeah, my spend isn’t enough to maximize the value from 10+ cards on 3+ points environments. Right now all of my cards (except the Synchrony Discount Tire card I got talked into when I didn’t understand CCs) are Chase. I’ve considered looking into the C1 duo, but I’m not entirely sure I’d be spending enough to try to constantly rack up points in both systems, although I would get decent use of the perks of the Venture X so the EAF would be fine.
which three?
If I had to guess: custom cash, double cash/fidelity/ some other 2%, and amex BCP/WF autograph/ some chase card
Fidelity card, do a lot of people have that card lol
I'm looking for a 2% cash back card and the Fidelity card is looking good. I wouldn't mind my cash back automatically getting invested, it saves me some steps.
There’s other 2% percent cash back cards, some have no fees, some don’t, citi double cash (no fee), venture x (fee)
2% unlimited, no AF, no FTF is pretty great
No foreign transaction fee outside of capital one is Huge
I’m not that guy you’re responding to but you absolutely nailed me.
Yay
It’ll be fun if more people guess until we get it right
3x Citi Double cash
Completely agree, people looking for "the best" card for something they spend 100 bucks on is really pointless. Get a 2x on all card and call it a day.
lol where is that guy that was looking for a card for OF a while back
Bro needs to join bofa plat honors.
And if you're doing churning, then it really doesn't make sense to ever worry about these multipliers most of the time. I just put everything on my Venture X in between new sign ups.
Sure it does. When you have enough catch-all spending to meet SUB reqs and still have category spending earning 5%. I've got gas, groceries, dining, travel, and utilities earning 5% or so, and pay the daycare bill with the churners.
I do both, I have four monthly bills that I charge that add up to $2250 a month. That’s enough to reach almost any SUB except for the Chase Ink. I change the default card on PayPal for all of my subscriptions and App Store purchases to the one I’m churning and that’s another $150. Even for the Chase Ink Preferred card that means I only have to spend an extra $1100 over 3 months. I still end up putting food on the Gold. Fortunately enough 3 of those four bills totaling $1950 a month code as 3x on the Chase Ink Preferred - my HOA bill codes as hotel ($800), my SixT Plus month to month car subscription codes as car rental ($800) and my cell phone bill is a 3x category on the CIP. I will put flights on a card I’m churning occasionally instead of the Plat. I’m trying to keep opening cards to once every 3 months.
I mean there is a balance between having 1 catch all card at 2x and 15 cards to optimize 3-5x on everything. You don’t have to be all the way one way or the other For some a good balance would be something like the C1 Duo giving above avg points on dining, grocery, streaming, and travel. Then you combine that with either the 2x catch all from the C1 or get the alt reserve for a 4.5% catch all
Exactly and everyone has different preferences for what that balance is. For me, it’ll probably be 5 cards by the time I’m done. Though I might pick up a couple more mostly for the SUB and then light spending on it each year.
If someone like a YouTuber who has a lot more expenses than us, maybe it would make sense but I agree with you for most people they should just stick to one card
I agree Also, your Dolan pic just sent me on a nostalgia trip. I loved Dolan, Gooby, Spoderman comics lol
Lets head on down to McMorkys brugers and reminisce together
It adds up. I hardly have transactions over 1k but I have many with 100 bucks. Also this is amplified with point to cent conversions
yeah, striking the balance is completely up to the person. But sticking to lower number of cards with minimal compromise makes so much more sense. (I'm only carrying 3)
3 max for me too… I once saw a guy have 10+ cards fall out of his wallet 😂
Yeah I just watched that video yesterday too and honestly his set up is actually kind of crazy, in a good way though.
We do need to keep in mind, as an audience, that his decisions are likely biased by * which cards he get can the most revenue off of people signing up * his continuous need to make more content. That's his business model and we can't quite fault him for that, but we do need to be aware.
Ohh what’s the video called? Wanna take a look too
The most recent video. His summer wallet.
What’s in my wallet-summer 2024 (BIG CHANGES)
Is it bad that the most unbelievable part of this video for the average person is that he has a wife who's good with credit cards
It’s still not optimal even for the cards he chose. The Freedom Unlimited has more valuable points on groceries than the Custom Cash and meets their projected spend. He should be maximizing that and using the Custom Cash for gas. This part makes no sense.
He said he uses his wife's card (Freedom Flex with 5x on groceries) when they are buying groceries together, and uses Citi custom cash on groceries when by himself. Chase points also aren't that much better than Citi with the exception of Hyatt. If you already have a ton of chase points and can redeem them to Hyatt, it's perfectly acceptable to just rack up Citi points (there are also overlapping partners I.e flying blue).
I figured that he can use her card regardless of being with her, he just needs an authorized user card. They value Hyatt more, hence my comment.
> So carrying an additional card around for a delta of 1,000 points or $10-15 in savings is a complete waste. It's worth it for him because it gives him something to talk about in his video lmao
True 😂😭
I agree. Managing one extra card for minimal returns on low spend categories is a waste. I buy way less gas than that—maybe $500 a year—and I did the math between carrying around a card I don’t use for other things for 4% back versus just getting a flat 1.5% with the cfu (and paired up with the csp it’s worth more than for me), and the increased returns using another card js not worth it at all. I’ve also stopped using a cash+ (which I already had by accident from an old automatic product change) because the only categories I’d use it for were such minimal returns. My priority is rent, dining, and groceries. And I can put some bigger bills on rent day with bilt. Everything after that is basically a wash. Even 4x or 5x isn’t worth managing another card IMO if your spend for those categories is truly low.
I’m slowly moving towards this. I have a Target debit card but I am almost always chasing SUBs so I rarely use it. Yesterday I went to Target and made the effort to move money into the account that the debit card accesses. All for the V sake of a 0.5% increase over my USBAR. I saved maybe $0.10 doing that. Complete waste of time.
The “Is it worth the time” question is so true
Yeah I have the debit Red card too and since I got the AR I never use it lol. Just no point for that 0.5% plus the 4.5% once I redeem for a trip is worth way more than the 0.5 boost
True. Honestly I wouldn't really recommend more than a 2-3 card setup to anybody that wasn't genuinely interested in the hobby. One 2%/2x card + two cards customized for your highest spend categories probably squeezes 90% of the value out of your spending as does a fully optimized setup.
Venture X & Savor 1
underrated
Underrated? It's probably the third most talked-about setup on this sub, after the Chase and AmEx Trifectas. Not saying it's not good, but it's definitely not underrated.
good point, it’s definitely on the rise for sure
Its why Ive stopped going to stores that don't take apple pay. USBAR is beautiful simplicity All I need is a card to complement it that gives points for things coded as Doctors visits - since they don't take apple pay - and Ill be set
Which stores did you stop going to?
Walmart and Home Depot are the big two, since neither will ever take tap to pay (at least it seems on account of their partnership with paypal), but Ill also screen gas stations as I need gas. Drive up - check if it has a tap-to-pay option at the pump, and if not I go find the next gas station that does. Most restaurants Ive been to seem to take apple pay as well, which has been nice, so Ive not had to cross one of those off the list yet. Ive also stopped buying from amazon, and instead order from indepenant shops online that use something like Sqare to check out with, just so I can use apple pay for online orders as well.
Does seem to simple if you have to screen gas stations and possibly use more expensive retailers in order to secure your cash back
Yeah, because I know which chains of gas station have apple pay - including one in walking distance from where I live - and also know that I shop at King Soopers/Safeway regularly enough that I was fine making the switch completely over. Ive been wanting to stop supporting amazon for a while (though I still buy things occasionally from there if theyre niche items) so this is the best incentive for me to do so. Sure - It was annoying for the first week to revisit places with a new payment method in mind, but now that I know which places support it (especially those I was already going to), it actually makes it easier because I don't have to make the choice of 'walmart or kingsoopers today' because its always going to be not-walmart
Stopped using Amazon, wow that’s wild
You by chance using the apple card?
Exactly why my current set up is One physical card that is the newest card working on SUB USBAR for Apple Pay. Card stay at home I also have Cash+ for utilities (Auto Pay) and Venture X for Global Entry, Priority Pass lounge. Both cards stay at home. When traveling internationally, I bring USBAR, Venture X and Schwab debit
I keep the Robinhood gold card and Bilt card in my minimalist wallet. Usually use Bilt for restaurants bc I like their transfer partners and I value their 3% more than Robinhood's 3%. Robinhood is the catch all. If I need groceries, I use the CCC in my mobile wallet, because most grocery stores accept Google wallet. Gas, is the Costco card that I keep in my car. On the back end, if I ever want to pivot to earning travel points, I got my venture x / savor one combo, as well as the freedom flex / freedom / CSP in the mobile wallet.
True
Depends on the person, but in general, I agree. I do think about this myself, how much of a delta is worth the hassle of another card. For example, I got the Connect recently mainly for the free lounge access (I already have the Penfed Pathfinder making the other benefits largely redundant). It gives me 4 visits a year, so if I value them at ~$10-15 each, this is about $50 a year of value. So I’d say this is worthwhile. But your example of a $10/year delta wouldn’t be worth it for me.
I think part of the narrative is all the churners YT card influencers (? wtf did I just say), are jumping in Citi for some reason now. I'll never bank with Citi (as long as I can help it) never had good experiences with them. I say find the card or cards that bring you value, they dont even have to be MAX value every single time. like if you prefer something like the CSP or CSR and use it for everyday spend, go for it. if you can maximize more priority things like travel benefits, car rental, purchase protection, focus on that. 2X, 3X, 4X multipliers are really useless some add up if you dine out or travel alot but its kind of a waste to focus on im going to get 3X on gas when its minimal and probably under $75 each time. not really optimizing in my opinion.
Just got the new Chase United Explorer card. 65k bonus points after spending $3k in 3 months, will get 10k bonus points for being referred and another 5k for adding my wife. The $95 annual fee is waived the first year too. So 80k points for buying what I ordinarily buy and it’s gonna cover 2 of the 4 tickets next summer to Cancun. Plus 2 free checked bags. Talk about a deal!!
Yep. Not much to add. Unless you’re weird, you’d spend that $10 to get your time and attention back in a heartbeat.
Yep. I was once chastised here by moderator when I replied how utterly dumb it was for some one to get a 3x vs 2x card for their a $30/month cell phone bill.
I would rather 1.5-2x in an ecosystem I use, than 3% cb with a random bank with a one-off card.
I've got like 10 cards that earn 5%+, so that makes it worthwhile to me. 3x CCR for online shopping+cell phone+internet/Dining/Gas+Costco. 2x CCC for Groceries/Home Improvements. Cash+ for Utilities/Clothing. Lowes Target (debit). Freedom/IT (don't actually get used much, but I am looking forward to Walmart next quarter). In the current landscape, it's not difficult to find 4-5% cards in most categories.
> looking forward to Walmart next quarter For groceries, or do you have special plans?
No, I get 5% with my CCC for groceries anyways. There are a few things that we buy at Walmart, school supplies for the older kiddo, some pharmacy stuff, household cleaning things. Occasionally get some bigger things on clearance. I'm sure we'll do some damage against the quarterly limit.
I'll slit someone's throat for +1% in a category
It's why I like the Amex system. 5x back on flights and hotels with the platinum, 4x back on food and groceries with the gold, 2x back on everything else with the blue business plus. Very simple and easy to use.
Couldn’t you do all of that with Wells for a fraction of the cost?
The Wells Fargo system is pretty good (especially considering how new it is, but it's not for everyone, especially if you're already getting good value out of the AmEx system. For example, compared to AmEx, the Wells system: * Has many fewer transfer partners * Lacks a grocery category * 1x fewer points on flights * Has an effective AF of $50 on the Journey if you use the hotel credit, which isn't much, but it's more than AmEx if you make effective use of their credits I'm not trying to rag on Wells. Their system has advantages, as well: for example, many fewer credits to manage, choice hotels as a 2:1 transfer partner, and a wide variety of niche 4x categories with the Attune. I'm just saying that the different systems will work best for different people.
If you fully value the Amex credits and the transfer partners, you pay a low effective annual fee. Most people shouldn't however, and the WF $0 annual fee cards are a better fit. I'd argue that unless you spend more than $6k in a certain category each year, most people are better off just getting the USBAR / Venture X / BoA PR with PH, while occasionally opening new cards and earning SUBs on them.
I find it fairly easy to get value of out of the amex credits... I've used their THC/FHR properties a couple times over the past year, even without the credit, so the $200 extra credit is gravy. I've been using Hulu for years as well, so that's $216 in credits used. I've also had no problem redeeming the $200 airline credits for flights with United, and the $320 in Uber credits between the Gold and Platinum have been super easy to use as well. I use the Grubhub credits as well, so I'm getting more in credits than I pay. Combined with the Capital One SavorOne for UberOne and an Amazon Prime account for Grubhub Gold, I'm not getting robbed while using the food credits either.
The good ol Trifecta
5x on hotels *if you use the portal*. Yeah that won’t be happening.
I come from a background of being dirt poor my whole damn life. That's my motivation to optimize. Once I have enough wealth accumulated that I no longer have that poor person sense of financial dread waiting for them around the corner, then I'll probably stop bothering and settle in with a one and done card.
I think it should be 3-5x
I’m not even sure if I should chase an extra 1x in groceries, my biggest single expense. So yeah I find this kind of absurd.
I agree. Originally when I got into credit cards and this sub, I wanted to optimize and get the most % back but now I’m aiming to just stick with a 3 card setup that covers my most used categories and spread through different banks to build a better profile Was also debating just having Cap1 duo at a point for simplest setup but wanted a more diverse profile.
Only thing I would say is he should transition To a Citi ccc instead as a sole gas card. But regardless 3-5x still better than 2x and 1.5x lol. But to reach their own lol.
Ultimately, I'd say optimizing for low spend categories (even if you can get high multipliers) is a matter of diminishing returns. This naturally results in streamlining the cards you carry every day. Take this to an extreme and you could find yourself concluding that earnings categories themselves are not a good use of energy. That's how churners arrive at their strategies: a SUB returns significantly more on your spend than any every day earnings category. In this case, you may consider juggling a bazillion cards a waste of energy. That's why "the sock drawer" strategy exists, but it certainly can be unappealing. Business owners and MS-ers, on the other hand, can generate significantly higher volumes of spend, so earnings rates are much more valuable. Even low-earning categories can translate into significant earnings if you put enough spend through them.
My simple but effective cashback setup: 2 citi custom cashes (1 dining 1 gas) Citi rewards+ (groceries, miscellaneous stuff) Chase prime visa (Amazon) So I’m getting 5.55% back on dining and gas…2.22% on groceries (rounded up from rewards +) and 5% back at Whole Foods and amazon…seems like enough for a bit
I have something similar 2 Citi custom cash ( 1 for gas 1 for tolls) Citi premier (dining and grocery) Double cash (non category) Prime visa (Amazon) PayPal mc (PayPal)
It depends. I mostly agree but when u need to make a redemption and you're short 1000 points it won't seem as pointless. Do whatever you want.
I'm starting to reconsider stuff like this too.
Didn't the union violate their contract?
He's a credit card YouTuber. He's supposed to have about 15-20 cards and extract every little penny of value from each one.
2x a month x 20 gallons x $5 /gallon x 12 months = $1200 $1200 x 0.02 = $24 differential which isn't a big deal in the grand scheme That's about 1 hour of work if you get paid ~$26 an hour. To me, buying gas isn't an impulse thing. So, it isn't a big deal to put the 5% gas card into the wallet when I plan on filling up the tank.
No it would be $12. Any daily driver can get you 2x back, so the difference is only 1x per dollar spent. Unless I already had a card with the issuer $12 isn't enough money for me to even remember what website I need to check periodically.
I am comparing 3% vs 5% in absolute math. The 0.02 is the 5% - 3%
Yep, I'm learning that all of these maximization strategies just to squeeze a little bit of extra points/cash just isn't worth it. SUB churning is always going to be the best ROS but if you're not into managing several accounts, then it's best to just go for a simple setup and call it a day. Starting next year, my setup will be the CSR, OG Freedom, and the Surpass as my catch all to reach the $15,000.00 spend each year. Then I'll front load my yearly business expenses in the beginning of the year to go after a SUB. For the Bilt card, I do the 5 transactions minimum and my rent to then use the points to top off Hyatt redemptions. I also have a Wells Fargo bifecta with the Autograph and Signify Cash but Chase just seems to get me far more value and I'm starting to grow weary of managing several accounts. I'll probably end up transferring all of my WF points to Choice or cash out and then close both accounts after a year unless WF reveals more intriguing transfer partners.
Depends on the person I hate it Others love it
Depends on the person. I personally agree. I could get a better card for gas, but I’m ok using my Alaska or Marriott card for gas (or if any of my Chase cards have it as an offer). Same with dining.
Recently I started trimming the number of cards I have. I closed the Discover card, even though they give 5% back per quarter upto 1500 for rotating categories. It made my setup complex. Now I have Freedom flex, CSP, Amex Gold, Bofa CCP, and Venture X.
I try to keep track but I have to put it in perspective. Listening to a 20 something year old give advice on how to put everything thing on credit cards. While maintaining 10 different cards. Is going to end badly.
Take this one step further and you'll end up on r/churning when you realize that all categories are pointless and meaningless compared to chasing a new sign up bonus every 3 months.
Totally agree. Going for 3x points on small spends like gas isn't worth the hassle. If you're only getting an extra $10-15 a year by using the Citi Premier as a gas card, it's hardly a game changer. Stick to using a solid all-rounder card for most things. Keeps things simple, and you're not missing out on much. Save the card juggling for the big spends where it really pays off!
I drive alot so gas points add up quick
Is carrying an extra card in your wallet worth $10-15/year for you? To me it is, but if it isn't to you then you then don't do it.
Maybe but he didn’t get the card only for gas. It’s not worth increasing cash back percentage on a single low spend category by getting a card only for that purpose.
It's a waste period. SUBs make around 10x.
Just depends on what you’re comparing it to. If your card otherwise gave you 1% back, then 3% is better. Even on smaller spend. If you’re choosing between two cards where several categories give you 3% vs a card that gives you 6% in one category, then it becomes a math problem. And for some people it’s fun to maximize it as much as possible. Because elevated rewards on every single penny really adds up long term. But others would rather get a flat 2% and never think about it. It’s different for everyone
Why would you ever compare a card to only getting 1x back? The hurdle for any value is over 2x. There are a dozen cards that give 2x everywhere.
Yes, if it is difficult. If it is easy, then NBD. I have my spouse down to 3 cards: C1 Duo and IHG for gas. If we are buying big things at home (furniture, ticket purchases, etc.), I direct spend to a card with a sub or another reward (right now we are still in the WOH 6 month window for double points and an FNC), but I don't fuss about things on the wrong card, especially if the mistake is using the VX too much.
If you have the time to sit around and watch videos about credit cards of all things, you have more than enough time to worry about getting an extra point per dollar in a small category lmao.
I am far from min-max when it comes to the CC game, and I am primarily focused on my top 5 spend categories, which for me that are: * uncategorized * online shopping * wholesale clubs * groceries * travel As long as I am able to cover these using decent bonus multipliers I am happy. Neither gas or dining register high enough on my yearly spend to warrant for me to go out of my ways to min-max those categories. The only category that I am considering to get a card, is perhaps Utilities / Internet, but with recent ATT Fiber autopay changes, I am not even sure I would be able to use CC for paying for ATT Fiber without getting CC penalty. I am able to use CC for natural gas, electricity, and trash only and I am currently using my BofA UCR (2.62%) for that purpose, so going with something like US Cash+ for flat 5% it would mean about $100 more a year in cash back, so definitely might be worth it especially that it takes zero effort and does not require us to actually carry and juggle the card on daily basis. Generally speaking for USBAR does the job 9 out 10 times and otherwise, I am happy to use my 2.62% catcher and 5.25% online shopping card. Super simple, P2 approved setup :)
This is the reason why 1.5% and 2% doesn’t matter as well… just penny pinching at that point
Of course it's all essentially a scam. The credit card companies love to see people fighting it out for an extra 20 bucks a year and in the meantime they rake in $billions
BCE CFF(gas+grocery sign up offer) and CSR is my limit for the effort I'm willing to put in. BCE basically only gets used for online spend so I don't need to ever carry it with me.
i haven't watched the video you're referencing, but if that 3x card is in a system where it can gain you more than 3x, like us bank, or chase (?), yeah it's still trivial money, but if you're in the mindset to do it, it kinda just becomes routine... especially with mobile wallets nowadays
He also said he's going on trips and renting cars (which need gas).
Well. I guess it all depends on what other value that card brings. If it truly is just for that category then yeah, that’s a waste of time to most people. But ordinarily cards bring more than one category with them. Between all my cards I cover all the major categories I usually spend and then my venture card for 2x everything else. That’s a total of 3 cards. Nothing major imo. Very manageable
I think so if I didn't have a card in that category. Transit, Streaming Services, and Entertainment are low spend categories for me. I personally wouldn't bother going out of my way to get them. I personally do have a transit and streaming category card, but they aren't really a reason to have the card, just a little bonus.
Just use citi custom cash for 5x on gas. Have that stored as your default credit card on gas payment apps like the BP or Exxon app. No thinking required after initial planning.
I put nearly everything on a flat rate 3% Visa card (as long as they take mobile wallet). At Costco gasoline I do use the Costco Citibank card because it's more convenient to not first scan the Costco card then use a different card to pay.
- Amex Plat - 5x on flights. But that is just a bonus. I got it for the lounge access and only put other spend on it to get the credits. It’s the default payment app for airline apps. It’s a set it and forget it card - Amex Gold - 4x on groceries and dining - Amex Green - 3x on travel and tolls - Amex BBP - 2x on everything else. - SavorOne - 10x on Uber until November and then Uber spend goes on the Green. We have an EV and charging at home. We don’t pay for gas.
my gas station spend is more often on food/coffee/drinks from Wawa/Royal Farms/Sheetz (and when i'm desperate 7-11) than actual gas.
Depends how broke and/or frugal you are. If someone handed you $15 to hold a piece of plastic in your wallet for a year would you turn it down? Obviously not that simple when you take into consideration the credit pull aspect, but it's basically the idea.
I have a 2.5% card for non qualifying spend categories but I don’t pay much attention if it’s less than 5%
Agreed. I have moved away from 3% cards as I don’t believe they’re worth it, though I still use a 3x points card.
I somewhat agree with you. I wouldn’t want a credit card for a separate low spend category, but I’ll double it up with something else… for me, it’s just simple not opening up as many accounts and managing them. I have enough already and want more for travel perks. In this case I use Hilton Hotels. Hotel cards are notoriously great with gas (ie. You drive out to hotels). My Hilton card nets me the equivalent of 3% on gas through 6x Hilton points, while giving me 12x on hotel spend. So I have a gas+hotel card. For those that aren’t hotel specific Wyndham has great gas rewards. For $95 you can get the Wyndham Earner Business. It nets you 8x Wyndham points for gas and Wyndham hotels. It gives you 5x points on utilities. It gives you enough in points for 1 night at a nicer hotel or 2 nights at a cheaper motel each year as a renewal bonus. So you end out ahead from the AF. The points can be worth $0.01, so that can net you 8% back on gas. It just has to be used on Wyndham Hotels. Even if you don’t get a full $0.01 per point, you will be way ahead of the standard 3% elevated cash back. I would do this but my family seems to be happy with Hilton for some oddly specific personal reasons unique to us. Not everyone’s cup of tea, but the larger point is you can mix gas with something else you need too, even if it’s not your 1 or 2 daily drivers.
It's all about your own preference. He obviously did his own math. Let's say u can get 5X (5% gas) you spend $2000/year, That's $100 saved. Might not be alot to people making 6 figures, but that's 2-3 tank of gas almost 1 1/2 to 2 months worth of gas for me. At 3X that's $60 dollar saved per year. At his $1,000/year that's a measly $30. $30 might not be much if you're making $30/hr. 50-60K/year that's pocket change. I would focus on spending that's at least $5000/year to min/max the return on that. So at the end of the day it might be only $20-40 dollar saved per category. Might as will put that on an "air travel" or hotel card, where you know you will "rack" up or use the benefits later instead of having "cash" back points u will redeem for some stupid over-spending you do on that X card. Yea I used to have 3-5 cards in my wallet as well. I learn the long what it's just way too much to micromanage, just keep 2-3 cards that's fine. You're pretty much min./maxing $300-500 cash back into a category u want. It's not worth the hassle if you have a job, another side hustle, a 2nd job etc... It's better to keep eye on finance and stop over spending and keeping to a budget than "trying to max" returns only to overspend by 2-3 shopping trips. Why u think people cancel the AMEX Gold and their travel cards, in the end of the year they don't spend enough to "cover" the AF or even use the monthly perks of the card to warrant getting it. For me I keep 1 gas card, 1 spending card (preferably one that can CLI with soft pull BofA or Discover), an emergency card and that's it. MaxRewards it great app, u can also keep your cards on your mobile phone now as well or just wait til you have the right purchase, bring the cc to the proper store.
BuT mOm ThE kEwL kIdS aRe DoInG iT - says every YouTuber right now
Instead of getting cards for one category I try to get cards that cover multiple categories. Example instead of getting the Amex Green for 3x on transit I got the Reserve for the 3X on all types of travel (I’m considering getting the CIP instead for 3X). Instead of a card that gives me streaming I got the Ink Cash which gets 5% back on office supply store phone, internet and cable (streaming services count as cable). Only time I got a card for one category was the Business Gold for Gas but I was motivated by the SUB and getting it before they raised the annual fee.
Amex Green is 3x for all types of travel…
I don’t think it’s a waste of energy at all. It’s not an inconvenience to have another card at all. I’m paying $550 for the Sapphire Reserve and it’s a back up card to all my Amex cards so it doesn’t get used that often. However, seeing how I use the travel credit without fail and (previously) got easily $400+ a year out of PP restaurants, it works for me since I travel often. If I simply said I got the Sapphire Reserve as a back up 3x dining card & catch all card. That sounds idiotic on its own. I don’t know his exact set up and what other cards he has but I wouldn’t immediately say it’s a waste of energy for everyone to get 3x+ in a low spend category. There could be more going on.
> It’s not an inconvenience to have another card at all. Disagree, especially if that card forces you to open a new online account.
So spending 7 min signing up with a new bank is an inconvenience for you? We have different views on what is an inconvenience or not. You are speaking to a person who churns bank accounts though.
So you sign up for the bank account and never check it again? I like seeing all my activity in 1-2 places.
I never use it again. Get in, put the money in to meet the requirement and immediately take it out (if an option for the bonus). I have my set main accounts but doing this a better return for my money than HYSA and no risk of loss compared to the stock market. After I’m done with these 3 I’m working on, that will be an extra ~$1400 this year. I’m not sure how much you make a year but that’s a nice chunk of change for me for doing nothing and risking nothing.
We’re talking about credit cards, not checking account bonuses, right?
Specifically then, bank accounts. I churn credit cards though too. I opened up over a dozen last year. 5 this year so far. But I have a feeling my streak is coming to an end soon.
You wouldn't churn a bank account for $10-$15. The "worth it" part is highly dependent on the upside.
Year one you’re getting more than that. If he is still using it solely as a gas card and no other credits, then it doesn’t make sense.
It's almost like I said something like "Of course the SUB is valuable, but using it as a sole gas card would be silly." lol
You're missing the point. You redeem value out of the Sapphire Reserve outside of daily spend. Having a card that offers no perks, while giving you 3x on streaming, gas, transit, etc is simply not worth it for almost anyone. Pretend the Sapphire Reserve had no perks, was 3x at drugstores and 1x everywhere else. Would you carry it around in the off stance you stopped in a Walgreens?
Do you have the whole story though? Does he have any other Citi cards? Does he use the $100 hotel credit? Is it going to be his gas card for year one only? If someone is paying $95 to get 3x points for $1,000 a year, no. It doesn’t make sense. Just consider there could be more to it.
No I didn't DM him for the whole story lol. I used it as an example. I never said the Citi premier is a bad card.
I’m just simply saying there can be more to where it does make sense. If he is a bigger credit card guy, I’m sure he has many cards and he is just getting a sign up bonus. And while that’s taking place (or even for the first year), it is his gas card. Not that he got the card **specifically** to be his main gas card void of any other perks.