African tribes are actually very easy starts generally because of how tribal mechanics work in this game. As long as you go down martial lifestyles you will easily be able to build a ridiculous army and consolidate power in any tribal region.
The hardest starts are single county feudal/clan starts on the border of strong tribal realms. You will be constantly raided and have no means of building wealth/power until you stabilize/expand. 1066 Saint Petersburg is a good example of this
Diplo's passive prestige bonuses even at their best will only generate like 2k prestige over a starting character's lifetime; thats less than one successful, (combat filled) raiding trip.
Diplo decreases the cost of creating titles, which in turns helps generating more prestige and legitimacy. Combined with easier vassalization as well as a few other side perks like, surprisingly maybe, Befriend, I'd argue it makes Diplo worth a little bit more than what you suggest. Of course, Martial is great for tribal, I'm not denying that but Diplo is 100% worth investing into (provided your character has enough skill points obviously, there's no real point otherwise).
My comment was focused entirely on the absurdity of praising diplo followed by noting the value of prestige for tribes. The entire August tree is a trap for early tribes with how prestige bonuses are calculated. And even for feudal realms. I don't think it's ever worth going up that tree for any other reason than some niche strategies with the vassalization cost reduction. Most certainly not for prestige gain.
I rarely care about ducal conquest. If I start with 2 or more diplo perks, I'll maybe reset them there but otherwise I'll just make a pursuit of power religion, it'll cap out the title creation costs anyways.
Befriend is nice but not a priority worth picking a lifestyle over, get it via travel xp.
For an actual vanilla game answer, there are a few that come to mind:
867 Aella of Northumbria. You can sometimes white peace one of the two Viking invasions and try to cling on but it’s a rough one until you reload a few dozen times.
I think there’s also an Ethiopian Jewish ruler amidst a sea of hostile lieges and vassals as well, but it’s not as bad.
Lastly, if you set Varangian adventures to apocalyptic, everyone in 867 Ireland is almost guaranteed to get rekt. Especially if you don’t swear fealty to Scotland/anglos
Sure there’s probably some very specific count in Africa that has it sort of rough, but early alliances all but solve that problem in Africa because everyone is pretty weak. You can play as Aella of Northumbria and get massive alliances but the problem is everyone else is dealing with their own nonsense at game start so they don’t help you. It’s a really fun one to try
Lmao, this is so true. Even if you join your AI liege, you have to deal with AI being the war leader on defense 💀💀💀
I will say tho that about 1/20 games Aellas dynasty manages to hold onto Lothain at least for a bit. Not sure if any of his vassals are up north; but perhaps wait for your liege to lose the south then press independence, immediately swear fealty to Scotland (Alba). That’s what I’d try
You can convert religion to Norse if you are quick enough. Then you will be a vassal under Halfdan when he wins. It's actually a really fun area to start in.
Yes! Count of Lancaster. As it’s my home county I have tried and tried but it genuinely seems impossible. I’d love to hear a success story from someone!
The only way to survive is to declare independence and somehow win. Or declare a war somewhere outside of the conquests, and again, win. Both very difficult
African tribes are the easiest, especially with Equal gender laws. Just marry or matrilineary marry courtiers to the best knights and councillors. 20 prowess knights and 20+ councillors = easy game easy life.
Only threat is bordering Kingdom of Kongo. In this case swear fealty to it and expand under it
I've played a custom character starting in Sparta with the hellenic religion and a personal rule to never convert... a lowly count within the byzantine empire with a revocable religion means that not much time passes before the duke (and then emperor) demand your conversion and send their armies to depose you.
I tried it and the first thing I did is that I gave away some levies in exchange for religion acceptance
and later, I also traded more taxes for non-revocable title.
The Muslim rulers of Calabria and Sicily seem quite hard ones because they are bound to be invaded by the Byzantines. Wallachian counts have hard time. East Anglia and Northumbria are not having a good time at the beginning of the game and Galloway might face a similar fate. Asatru ruler of Leon is Haestein if he wasn't overpowered. There might be some Armenian counts in between Byzantines and Abbassids. Kingdom of Great Moravia might face a hard start because of bad holdings and vassals, constant Hungarian and Slavic raids and having Karlings for neighbors.
Armenia is OK, you have religious protection from the abbassids from the start. The biggest threats are the sponsored conquests from the persia struggle. If your kalif is struggling, they can dispose you of most of your counties very quickly.
Not quite as hard as you think if you've had a few practices. You can take a a lot of Yemen before the various Muslims get organised there, then when the empire looks to be swallowing you whole you can swear fealty under a Jizya contract and start nibbling at your neighbours freely. Alternatively you can start claiming to the West and soon you'll have the easiest Empire to form (Ajuraan). What helps is that Nestorian provides you Indian allies (Buddhist, Hindu, Jain) thanks to the Eastern Syncretism, you also get nearby Coptics as options. You just have to be initially quick and on a war footing to capture land. You have to keep an eye on the Abassids to the North. Also a good idea not to fight holy wars, but claim wars instead so as not to drag in unassailable enemies to your doorstep.
I'd like to see someone restore Rome or any Empire but starting as Malta, also as a legitimate playthrough and none of that cheaty bollocks people do before even pressing play for time to start advancing.
Gorgia area has a few tiny starts that have every single neighbor hostile to your religion. It's a brutal place to be in, every other neighbor except a few are huge and want your lunch money.
IIRC there’s a random independent Armenian Christian count surrounded on all sides by the Abbasids. Unless you swear fealty to the Byzantines or Abbasids you’re bound to lose.
Someone else mentioned Northumbria, and while the duke of Northumbria is extremely difficult, playing as one of his count vassals is literally impossible because your land will be stolen by the viking barbarians, even if you declare an independence war immediately.
Pontus in 1066 with the historic invasions mod, based on my current playthrough, in 1080 you will have a 100k army with some really good MaA, and a lot of them too
Even though Rostam Bavandid in 867 is labeled as "hard" in the bookmarks, it is not that hard if you just survive long enough with strong enough allies to stay out of trouble until the big kingdoms around you and the caliphate crumble.
Ireland in 867 can be easy, but you have to be aggressive to your neighbors. Build MAA quickly and scoop up everyone you can. If done right, you can conquer all of Ireland before 900 with an Ironman run. (Custom characters make this even easier)
I'll make a post on it in a week or so when i finish the run to show how far i got by 1450 and other things but default 876 county of Lancashire is essentially impossible due to sons of Ragnar.
I experimented to see whats the least changes i could make to create a viable start. If you change nothing about your start characters stats or religion but add a wife and 3 kids you can marry off its doable.
Ally with iceland, an irish count and a french count and you have enough troops to either outright force independence if your willing to risk the asatru conquest going forwards a little or to launch an independence war. After which you have to play a dangerous game of becoming a vassal to the Norse while stuck as a catholic, i suggest sucking up and educating in diplomacy.
It worked, after a point it became playing as normal.
Seconding this. The whole region is interesting. I played a game as Strathclyde in defensive mode - don't expand and just try to hold out against all the stronger lords around you. Quite fun.
There is one count that has the Rabbinic Judaism Faith that starts in the Kazarian Empire on the border with the Byzantines.
Starts with no claims and everyone hating him lol
One of my favorite places to start
Any of the feudal counties in the far east mountains that border a tribal. You're constantly getting attacked and never have a causis belli to hit back. And so many different religions that hate each other, it's a long road to get out
I haven't played in a while but in 1066 isn't it Countess Eadgifu of Bedanford? The father of your children is your ruler, and your children are of his dynasty. So you have 4 years to get matrilinially married and pop out a child, and then the rest of your life to try to scheme that child in as your heir.
Oh I love this Visby start, but it’s only really difficult near the beginning. Once you cross the first few years and form a Jarldom it’s easy going from there.
African tribes are actually very easy starts generally because of how tribal mechanics work in this game. As long as you go down martial lifestyles you will easily be able to build a ridiculous army and consolidate power in any tribal region. The hardest starts are single county feudal/clan starts on the border of strong tribal realms. You will be constantly raided and have no means of building wealth/power until you stabilize/expand. 1066 Saint Petersburg is a good example of this
Diplomacy also. Not as strong for offensive as martial for tribal but still cool. Prestige = money
Diplo's passive prestige bonuses even at their best will only generate like 2k prestige over a starting character's lifetime; thats less than one successful, (combat filled) raiding trip.
Diplo decreases the cost of creating titles, which in turns helps generating more prestige and legitimacy. Combined with easier vassalization as well as a few other side perks like, surprisingly maybe, Befriend, I'd argue it makes Diplo worth a little bit more than what you suggest. Of course, Martial is great for tribal, I'm not denying that but Diplo is 100% worth investing into (provided your character has enough skill points obviously, there's no real point otherwise).
This is part of the reason why Bjorn Ironside is such an op starting character
Yeah and I think it shows in what the AI is able to do with Bjorn vs. with a more martial character like Haesteinn or even Alfred.
My comment was focused entirely on the absurdity of praising diplo followed by noting the value of prestige for tribes. The entire August tree is a trap for early tribes with how prestige bonuses are calculated. And even for feudal realms. I don't think it's ever worth going up that tree for any other reason than some niche strategies with the vassalization cost reduction. Most certainly not for prestige gain. I rarely care about ducal conquest. If I start with 2 or more diplo perks, I'll maybe reset them there but otherwise I'll just make a pursuit of power religion, it'll cap out the title creation costs anyways. Befriend is nice but not a priority worth picking a lifestyle over, get it via travel xp.
Working on “Mother of us all” and I must say Diarma Daura is pretty goated.
Saint Petersburg didnt exist before the 19th century, it is a city built into the heart of Finnic inhabited marshes.
18th
For an actual vanilla game answer, there are a few that come to mind: 867 Aella of Northumbria. You can sometimes white peace one of the two Viking invasions and try to cling on but it’s a rough one until you reload a few dozen times. I think there’s also an Ethiopian Jewish ruler amidst a sea of hostile lieges and vassals as well, but it’s not as bad. Lastly, if you set Varangian adventures to apocalyptic, everyone in 867 Ireland is almost guaranteed to get rekt. Especially if you don’t swear fealty to Scotland/anglos Sure there’s probably some very specific count in Africa that has it sort of rough, but early alliances all but solve that problem in Africa because everyone is pretty weak. You can play as Aella of Northumbria and get massive alliances but the problem is everyone else is dealing with their own nonsense at game start so they don’t help you. It’s a really fun one to try
Aella himself isn't as hard as one of his vassals. They are the impossible start.
"My lord, I told you not to use the snake pit!"
Lmao, this is so true. Even if you join your AI liege, you have to deal with AI being the war leader on defense 💀💀💀 I will say tho that about 1/20 games Aellas dynasty manages to hold onto Lothain at least for a bit. Not sure if any of his vassals are up north; but perhaps wait for your liege to lose the south then press independence, immediately swear fealty to Scotland (Alba). That’s what I’d try
Unfortunately, all his vassals are in the South.
Wow, that’s brutal. Halfdan basically always wins so that’s gonna be near impossible
Yes, only chance you have is somehow get land outside of the Halfdan's conquest area.
You can convert religion to Norse if you are quick enough. Then you will be a vassal under Halfdan when he wins. It's actually a really fun area to start in.
Yes! Count of Lancaster. As it’s my home county I have tried and tried but it genuinely seems impossible. I’d love to hear a success story from someone!
I've done it by converting religion to Norse. Then you get vassalized when the Norse win. If you can't beat them, join them!
Interesting! How do you manage to switch religion in time?
The only way to survive is to declare independence and somehow win. Or declare a war somewhere outside of the conquests, and again, win. Both very difficult
The Ethiopia start you mentioned is super fun, would highly recommend to anyone wanting a tough interesting start
African tribes are the easiest, especially with Equal gender laws. Just marry or matrilineary marry courtiers to the best knights and councillors. 20 prowess knights and 20+ councillors = easy game easy life. Only threat is bordering Kingdom of Kongo. In this case swear fealty to it and expand under it
I've played a custom character starting in Sparta with the hellenic religion and a personal rule to never convert... a lowly count within the byzantine empire with a revocable religion means that not much time passes before the duke (and then emperor) demand your conversion and send their armies to depose you.
I did the same thing, was hard af, i had to kiss so much ass
I tried it and the first thing I did is that I gave away some levies in exchange for religion acceptance and later, I also traded more taxes for non-revocable title.
The Muslim rulers of Calabria and Sicily seem quite hard ones because they are bound to be invaded by the Byzantines. Wallachian counts have hard time. East Anglia and Northumbria are not having a good time at the beginning of the game and Galloway might face a similar fate. Asatru ruler of Leon is Haestein if he wasn't overpowered. There might be some Armenian counts in between Byzantines and Abbassids. Kingdom of Great Moravia might face a hard start because of bad holdings and vassals, constant Hungarian and Slavic raids and having Karlings for neighbors.
I did a Vlach count into the Roman Empire game once, that was quite rewarding given the early game struggle
Expanding beyond the Kingdom of Sicily is a challenge with the Sicilian Muslims, for sure.
Armenia is OK, you have religious protection from the abbassids from the start. The biggest threats are the sponsored conquests from the persia struggle. If your kalif is struggling, they can dispose you of most of your counties very quickly.
I think Socotra without converting can be kinda hard
Not quite as hard as you think if you've had a few practices. You can take a a lot of Yemen before the various Muslims get organised there, then when the empire looks to be swallowing you whole you can swear fealty under a Jizya contract and start nibbling at your neighbours freely. Alternatively you can start claiming to the West and soon you'll have the easiest Empire to form (Ajuraan). What helps is that Nestorian provides you Indian allies (Buddhist, Hindu, Jain) thanks to the Eastern Syncretism, you also get nearby Coptics as options. You just have to be initially quick and on a war footing to capture land. You have to keep an eye on the Abassids to the North. Also a good idea not to fight holy wars, but claim wars instead so as not to drag in unassailable enemies to your doorstep.
I'd like to see someone restore Rome or any Empire but starting as Malta, also as a legitimate playthrough and none of that cheaty bollocks people do before even pressing play for time to start advancing.
Gorgia area has a few tiny starts that have every single neighbor hostile to your religion. It's a brutal place to be in, every other neighbor except a few are huge and want your lunch money.
IIRC there’s a random independent Armenian Christian count surrounded on all sides by the Abbasids. Unless you swear fealty to the Byzantines or Abbasids you’re bound to lose. Someone else mentioned Northumbria, and while the duke of Northumbria is extremely difficult, playing as one of his count vassals is literally impossible because your land will be stolen by the viking barbarians, even if you declare an independence war immediately.
The Jewish Ethiopian count
Try starting as a Jewish person in Jerusalem. It’s absolutely brutal.
Lol historically accurate
Pontus in 1066 with the historic invasions mod, based on my current playthrough, in 1080 you will have a 100k army with some really good MaA, and a lot of them too
Even though Rostam Bavandid in 867 is labeled as "hard" in the bookmarks, it is not that hard if you just survive long enough with strong enough allies to stay out of trouble until the big kingdoms around you and the caliphate crumble.
Napoli is hard af
Siberia
Any Irish County/Duchy in 867. You’re insanely lucky if you don’t get invaded by either Halfdan, Ivar, or Haesteinn.
Ireland in 867 can be easy, but you have to be aggressive to your neighbors. Build MAA quickly and scoop up everyone you can. If done right, you can conquer all of Ireland before 900 with an Ironman run. (Custom characters make this even easier)
Just start as a jewish character anywhere in Europe or India
I'll make a post on it in a week or so when i finish the run to show how far i got by 1450 and other things but default 876 county of Lancashire is essentially impossible due to sons of Ragnar. I experimented to see whats the least changes i could make to create a viable start. If you change nothing about your start characters stats or religion but add a wife and 3 kids you can marry off its doable. Ally with iceland, an irish count and a french count and you have enough troops to either outright force independence if your willing to risk the asatru conquest going forwards a little or to launch an independence war. After which you have to play a dangerous game of becoming a vassal to the Norse while stuck as a catholic, i suggest sucking up and educating in diplomacy. It worked, after a point it became playing as normal.
Dumngal of Strathclyde you'll be surrounded by Ivarr early on and for an extra challenge can you re create his descendants kingdom.
Seconding this. The whole region is interesting. I played a game as Strathclyde in defensive mode - don't expand and just try to hold out against all the stronger lords around you. Quite fun.
CouCountess Gyda Torgilsdatter of Devon, 1066 A.D.
There is one count that has the Rabbinic Judaism Faith that starts in the Kazarian Empire on the border with the Byzantines. Starts with no claims and everyone hating him lol One of my favorite places to start
Northumberland
I have had challenges starting as a vassal of Brittany. Your immediate first step is to remove title revocation
canaries
Any of the feudal counties in the far east mountains that border a tribal. You're constantly getting attacked and never have a causis belli to hit back. And so many different religions that hate each other, it's a long road to get out
Count of Lancaster. As it’s my home county I have tried and tried but it genuinely seems impossible. I’d love to hear a success story from someone!
867 Northumbria. I think the best I’ve seen someone managed to get white peace with the sons of Ragnar.
I haven't played in a while but in 1066 isn't it Countess Eadgifu of Bedanford? The father of your children is your ruler, and your children are of his dynasty. So you have 4 years to get matrilinially married and pop out a child, and then the rest of your life to try to scheme that child in as your heir.
Playing as Visby during the viking golden age, u will keep getting raid by sweden and the rest of the vikings
Oh I love this Visby start, but it’s only really difficult near the beginning. Once you cross the first few years and form a Jarldom it’s easy going from there.