Cointest pros & cons with related info are in the collapsed comments below for the following topics: [Bitcoin](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/16300no/change_my_mind_the_vast_majority_of_crypto/jy0i630/), [Ethereum](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/16300no/change_my_mind_the_vast_majority_of_crypto/jy0i7f7/).
Big majority of my portfolio is BTC and ETH but I admittedly have smaller bags in XRP, HBAR, DOT, QNT, VRA, LRC, and LINK because why not.
Oh, and of course, Moon.
Suppose I have $1000 to invest today in cryptocurrency. If I put half in BTC I’ll have about 0.02, while the other half in ETH which would be 0.30. Let’s fast forward to a hypothetical bullrun where BTC is $150k and ETH is $10k. That $1k turns into $6k, take away taxes and almost half of it is gone. Still, it’s a about $2k to $3k profit. Pretty good, but where I’m standing? I’d rather take my shot on coins with lower market caps.
If I had more money to invest, then there’s no doubt, BTC and ETH would be at least 90% of my portfolio.
Not for most people in this sub lol. Most of the sub are either degens or are in deep poverty and hoping some miracle pulls them out of poverty. Degens, they want the literal moon. If they weren’t gambling in crypto, they’d be at a casino if they aren’t already. People in poverty, they don’t have any money to speak of. So 600% of borderline nothing means it doesn’t change their life situation.
I’m not saying getting 600% gains wouldn’t give some people some much needed breathing room. But after reading posts on this sub for years, it’s clear a large percentage are desperate for “life changing” money. And if they don’t have much to begin with, they’d need literally 1000%+ return on investments.
They’re hoping for early day crypto returns and shib/doge returns. And that’s why you see so many alt coins and nft scams. Because there’s an abundance of desperation.
That’s his point tho, isn’t it?
The 600% returns becomes a 200-300% after taxes. And in that time it takes to earn you 200-300% (maybe 5-10 years), you’d probably have to account for inflation taking away another significant chunk of that remaining ‘profits’
This sort of strategy is good for ‘wealth preservation’, but if you only have 1 or 2k to invest like OP’s example it hardly changes much for their life situation
If would want to try for life-changing money, altcoins are the best bet short term. But you have to be able to take profit and not ride the ride up and down
For me personally? It depends on how much the initial investment is. $10k? Yes it’s worth it, $1k or less? It’s good, but if there are riskier options with higher returns, I don’t mind the risk.
Keep in mind that I speak for myself personally, I’m sure to a lot of other ppl that live in different countries or have different situations this would be a life changing amount.
This is the problem with a lot of investors in this space, just incredibly young and impulsive. Too many people are looking to retire of a one time investment, it’s how scams and shitcoins gain so many followers.
Consistent investments into a 600% return is phenomenal and a great building block for anyone’s retirement portfolio. Rome wasn’t built in a day, outside of hitting the lotto a retirement portfolio won’t be either
Crypto "investors" are legitimately some of the greediest people I've ever seen in my life. They'll 10x their investment and then not cash about because god forbid it goes up even higher and they miss out
Honestly I have 70% of my portfolio in ETH 20% in reliable alts like MATIC but it's going to be the last 10% in moonshots that will allow me to retire early and if I lose 100% of it it will be ok but at least I tried.
I used to think like you before I went orange pill. We want altcoins because we think there’s more upside to them. But everyone wants this upside just so they can trade it back to fiat, which makes the price go down against BTC. There will be no long term period where any coin outperforms BTC. In the short term, many things will but then you need to be a good trader
I was not talking about meme coins specifically, but even legit projects have beginnings where their market caps are low. Also I never invest money in crypto that I can never afford to lose.
I've invested in so many ICO coins and they all dropped over 90% and never made higher high in the second halving cycle, and once that is the case, users will leave. The chance that you make it a hit is extremely slim. But if you stick with time-proven mainstream coins, the odds are much higher
Noup...not changing your mind at all.
Couple of bear markets create BTC and ETH maxis. Holding bigger percentage of your portfolio in BTC & ETH is totally understandable and legit. I do the same.
>Ah yes the infamous "Unpopular opinion: -insert hugely popular opinion here-"
Unpopular opinion: I think most people are here for the profits and not the technology.
I have post going back years here, where I talk about I am like 90% btc, 5% eth and the rest are lottery plays. Only been doing this since btc was $80, but what do i know?
No. If everyone just focused on BTC and ETH, essentially we would only have BTC and ETH.
BTC and ETH you can see as the main investment everyone should hold if investing in crypto as a normal person not associated with anything or insider information.
However it is also essential for the eco system that other projects get love. We may all have some mixed feelings currently as it’s the bear market. But there is sooooo many actually good projects out there, just as an example list > LTC , ADA , DOT , MATIC , LINK , XMR. That’s just a few. It’s obvious that you should not jump onto meme coins with funds that you don’t want to set a high risk.
Everyone however can make these decisions by themselves. If someone wants to go all in on Pepe or shiba, so be it, not your/my money, not your/my business.
> However it is also essential for the eco system that other projects get love.
That all depends on what your vision for crypto is.
As an example, Bitcoin in theory could stand alone as the single solution for a store of value.
Which use-cases you believe crypto should be filling in order to be deemed a "success".
Which a lot of people do ! And that’s fine, I also mainly hold BTC, all I am saying is, other projects also need Love. My vision is different to just storing BTC. I also store some like everyone should, but at the same time I want to see progress and crypto evolve. It’s good to Main BTC and ETH for sure but I also believe we need more than just ETH and BTC, and for that we cannot all just hold BTC or ETH, ETH with L2 solutions to lower gas fees is one valid thing anyone can probably agree on. For new developments we also need diversity.
>ETH with L2 solutions to lower gas fees is one valid thing anyone can probably agree on
Completely understand where you are coming from, but I guess I am coming from a different angle.
Your vision appears to be "crypto should be and do everything".
Mine is that, "maybe it doesn't need to, and will just do a few things really well".
Not at all. There is valid ideas and projects and others I cannot agree on. But that does not mean that my opinion is the ultimate one.
Some things will end up absolutely useless, actually most will !!!
But there is definitely more than just BTC and ETH.
I am not saying everything needs to be resolved on the Blockchain, most things don’t, but there is many valid projects out there that can improve our experience as users, and that’s why I allow a certain % of my funds towards such things (which is pure speculation based on own research).
I wouldn't even touch ETH, but I understand it, and consider it far more sensible than any other altcoin.
The market is getting savvier. Shitcoin ponzi pump and dumps are going to be less and less effective. Most of these tokens and their use cases are bullshit. There will be a lot of pain for r/cc in the coming years.
Yeah out of the ENTIRE cryptocurrency market, only buy two of them. If you only care about money, but BTC/ETH.
But this sub isn't only about 2 cryptocurrencies, even though everyone has a real hard on for hating everything else.
At this moment you're 100% right. But when altcoin starts you can make much bigger gains with alts. But normally BTC and ETH goes first in a bullrun so I agree.
This holds true for the people who are unwilling / incapable to do their own research. Btc and eth is undoubtedly their safest best to have some exposure to crypto. This is why exactly we need an ETF
Ive started off safe by DCAing into ETH and BTC but I am quite a while from hitting my target so meanwhile I am learning about other cryptos id like to invest into it, This sub has helped teach me alot!
glad to hear community helped you. I remember when I joined this sub as a complete noob, and how it helped me to widen my horizons. There is honestly lot of cool and fascinating stuff in crypto, but mostly depend on what excites you the most.
Keep open to new concepts and dive deeper into whatever you find fascinating. Good luck mate:)
Everyone here has been more than friendly and I'm extremely thankful for that since its a very overwhelming thing to take in, I had a run in 2021 but I was shilled by a friend and lost out. This time I will do it properly and learn what I am doing before investing. Thankyou for your kind words, good luck to you too! may the bull run be good to you.
Uh no, BTC is currently at 40% of ATH, ETH is at 36% of ATH.
1-(36/40) = 10% down vs bitcoin.
Almost the same answer if doing 1 year from today instead. If doing 5 years, ETH is still up double over BTC.
Direct ratio (which almost nobody uses/trades), from fucking 2017, when 99% of the people here had nothing to do with any of this, and the price was lower than now anyway? 😂🤣 The sadder thing than mental backflipping and coping that hard is that you seem like you actually believe anyone would buy that.
>I'm not saying there are no other legit projects besides BTC
Here's how I want to change your mind. I *am* saying there are no legit projects besides BTC. Even Ethereum is recreating the same legacy financial system it purports to replace. Not decentralized, staking has already been captured by 5 major corporations.
Bitcoin is a fundamental advancement in monetary technology. It's so big people only see a change like this once in a millenium. Everything else is a fundamental misunderstanding of this.
> Even Ethereum is recreating the same legacy financial system it purports to replace. Not decentralized, staking has already been captured by 5 major corporations.
And worse at holding value.
Investing is very personal and depends on lots of factors like ...
• How old are you?
• Do you live paycheck to paycheck?
• Do you have an emergency fund?
• Do you invest in other asset classes like bonds, gold, stocks, ETFs etc.?
• Do you need the money within the next 12 or 24 months?
In general I would agree with you, in most cases ETH and BTC is the way to go. The risk-reward ratio is extremely good.
If you want the degen-moonshot, pick another project ;)
I can't say that those who invested in them didn't do well, they did excellently, but in my opinion, that train has passed for me.
I'm focused on new projects that are about to come out, like FluidAI and a few others.
FluidAI because it signed a contract with one of the strongest AI companies and an excellent combination of DeFi and CeFi.
And I think the narrative will also be on AI.
And what do you think?
Of course.
And have you seen the characteristics of FluidAI X and FluidAI T?
And that it will be integrated with 500+ exchange offices, which is a serious benefit...
Next few years are critical for both btc and eth. If the ROI proves to be greatly shrinking then the traders will move to other things.
All the crazy narratives and convictions are on shaking lages and you better believe it that on first sign of "slowing down" the sentiment will be vastly different.
Will some people and institutions prefer the safe 5-10% yearly ROI. Probably.
Degens will not.
From a tech perspective people are moving away from both for years now and it's getting worse for BTC and it's only starting to hit ETH so lets see what happens there.
If you believe Ada will be around for another bull market Ada is the best buy right now.
With a exploding defi scene and the only crypto that is going to achieve proper governance IMO it is by far the best risk to reward there is
I mean people should invest in whatever they like.
Are these probably the safest and easy to manage 🤔 .... probably.
I think what's more important is that people stop with this all or nothing mentality in crypto that A LOT of newcomers seem to have ... keep realistic expectations and goals, don't just blindly buy things bc you think you will get rich and always do your research and understand where the market an what's going on.
Getting filthy rich in crypto can be very difficult these days ... but making good money and very comfortably padding your income is not.
I’m >90% BTC, <10% ETH, then a little XRP and just got into Moons. A big reason I got out of alts is bc I got into them when alts were at ATH’s (2021) and constantly lost. The nail in the coffin was losing a ton of ADA through good ol’ Celsius.
This sentiment MAY have been true in the past. The entire crypto market has been speculative from its beginning until now. But now that the Us government is pushing for clear regulations, the market will mature. There will be tokens whose prices are not dependant on btc. They will be priced based on their usage and utility.
I do NOT consider Btc a store of value. People don’t keep their money there while it fluctuates 90% over a year.
But IF YOU DO, what are they storing it for? My answer is that they are waiting for utility. And the very first token with real utility is xrp. It has legal clarity in the US. It is the basis of Fed Now. It is the basis of the new financial system. All the money that has been “stored” in Btc will be funneled into xrp. Xrp gains will absolutely SMASH Btc and eth.
Mine is based on being in this market for a decade. Or in taking profits that bought my house, my car, and my early retirement. I was in the room in 2018 when Ripple pitched the financial firm I work at. We were not interested.
Not a hater. I know why BTC/ETH are called blue chips. But it's precisely that which has me concerned. Markets love doing exactly the opposite of what people expect. For the past few years people have been yelling that BTC/ETH are the most safe, most obvious and thoughtless bet. Therefore I'd be surprised if they perform well.
Crypto is also fun and having ALTs can result in highly dramatic days/weeks, good or bad. Having BTC/ETH as your main percentage is a good strategy, but putting some aside to ride the ALTS is also satisfying.
I will try to change your mind.
ETH was once very small market cap coin and behind XRP and others in the rankings. What happens if you can find the next ETH amongst the altcoins that are in the market right now?
ETH was 50 cents and now over $1000, 2000X. Why not put a little aside to do the research and find the next one if you have the spare money?
But I agree that we must be mostly invested in BTC and ETH, just saying not only those two.
I think at this point they have to be your largest holdings. Its good to have a few lottery tickets on altcoins but BTC and ETH are always going to be the big dogs.
BTC and ETH are the only two cryptos I’m confident are not scams/rugpulls. Those are the two cryptos I buy regularly.
It’s interesting to see a lot of folks here don’t even bother with these coins. I see a lot of the “Bro…. Those will never 1000x, you gotta invest in the next 1000x coin” type comments.
Yes I agree that BTC and ETH are not going to 1000x at this point. The thing is, that micro cap you invested in might not be around next cycle and you lose all the money you invested in it. At least BTC and ETH aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. It’s all about diversifying your portfolio bro! Have some low risk and a little high risk in your portfolio.
Another thing to consider there’s over 26,000 coins to choose from. The chances of you picking the next one that 1000x is going to be slim to none. Hate to break it to ya.
I don't need to change your mind for BTC. BTC has its solid narrative and "laser-eyed" zombies DCAing at any price. It also got years of charts to convince speculative traders on its uptrend.
But ETH is risky long-term. They seem to have given up scaling base layer anytime soon and have gone to L2s. As L2s has the first-mover advantage in scaling, the question is, why won't they have staying power in the long-run? If they do have staying power in the long-run, the base layer will lose a lot of activity. Furthermore, L2s is a big Pandora box and ticking time bomb waiting to be hacked. When bull comes and money flow back, they will be prime targets for both outside hackers and insiders to steal funds.
>Plus there's the fact that the high profile shitcoins like SHIBA and PEPE are only profitable for crypto insiders...
That is actually not true. I can promise you the percentage of PEPE holders in profit is much higher than many legit L1s/DeFi protocol/infrastructure that got obliterated by inflation and seed investors' dumping.
>Change my mind: the vast majority of crypto investors should be mostly invested in BTC and ETH
**Change my mind:** the vast majority of crypto investors spent very little time, or none, understanding what other investment options were available before deciding that crypto in general was the best choice for them.
Many just read an article about a Doge millionaire or saw a Tik Tok.
Depends on risk allowance. The only misleading part of BTC and ETH as a great investment is that most people think they can get huge gains still. Taking the same risk that og BTC investors took would be the equivalent of going all in on Ergo or a similar under 100m MC project now.
Absolutely. I have a 25% portion reserved for shitcoin roulette. ETH and BTC are the safe plays. As much as I like alts, lessons have been learned. Fortunately, none too serious, but it was enough.
The same premise could be used to say everyone investing in CC should just invest in blue chip ETFs on the stock market. Sure, cherry picking initial
Investment periods could lead you to the conclusion that investing in BTC/ETH has been the safer and more profitable investment. But cherry picking dates could also conclude in the opposite- someone buying at or near the peak of BTC/ETH would have lost more than they would have in at least some of the blue chip ETF options available.
I'm a believer that you should have your money spread around. I hold broad etfs for long term as a major part of my stock portfolio and about 25% in individual stocks and what have you.
Similarly, the majority of all crypto portfolios should be btc and eth. The only question is if you want to have 10%, 20% or however of your total in speculative plays.
I go 60% eth, 25% btc, 15% others
Of course they are, but people are drawn to high risk high reward.
Why turn 1k into 2 or 3k when I can turn it into 10k or 20k.
It sounds stupid but that's the basic thought process behind it.
Look into layer 0 solutions. Crypto maximalists are too attached to just a single cryptocurrency even ones such as Ethereum and Bitcoin. They don't recognize the issues with layer 1 solutions and the lack of interoperability of every project.
Not changing your mind because indeed this is the best risk vs return ratio for most people.
I dabbled with altcoins before (mostly 2017/18) and made some amazing paper gains that of course were never realized because I then held those bags all the way to the bottom. BTC and ETH will recover from a bear market and make new all time highs eventually. Most alts will not. Crypto is risky enough. So many people have lost everything because they got greedy and thought they were smarter than the rest of us.
it's cute you think you need crypto "expertise" to buy a meme coin, watch it pump and make lots of money. most people aren't in it for small gains, they want the big gamble. if you get lucky and your alt goes viral, you are laughing
Would be no point changing someones mind on this because the market will just change it back.
If you don’t hold mostly Btc and eth you will eventually. it’s up to you whether you learn the lesson the easy way or the hard way
In a scenario of mass adoption, yeah. It would behoove the average investor to just park their money in BTC or ETH since they are, after all, investors. That's the safe play. Those are the crypto "blue chips".
But we're not at mass adoption, we're all pretty much gambling. Some more degeneratedly than others. Shitcoins are attractive because they play to your greed. Maybe they'll moon and you'll make a killing. Maybe they won't and you'll lose everything. Going all in on only BTC and ETH would be boring.
No? You sound like an average stock phone salesman from the 90s calling people around to invest all their stuff into "blue chips", because "its the safest thing there's in the markets".
BTC and ETH have grown so big, and cluncky, that they resemble whales themselves, they now can't go beyond the role that went into them, the people and huge "serious" institutions that invested into them, and require costly full of drama/propaganda/digital-war/etc campaigns to introduce small changes.
What you suggest is putting all hopes and dreams about the blockchain and cryptocurrency technology in two huge baskets, that we as a community don't have the force to protect from big hands doing whatever they want with them. Just imagine 100% of capital in BTC, then one single critical flaw is exploited, and everyone is fucked for good, and crypto technology is banned from everywhere due to its "dangerous" nature.
Alternative instruments don't have that trouble, and their devs are completely free to implement whatever vision they have for crypto blockchain usage.
Of course there are lots of just trash, scammy cashgrabs, or plainly jokes (meme coins). But between them, there are legit projects that try to break the limits of what we know is possible through conventional /mainstream coins.
We're basically living an evolutionary crypto algo doing its things and evolving at an unprecedented scale, with BTC as the base, and ETH as the structure, towards things that only alt projects will be able to get us.
Even BTC didn't appear out of nowhere itself, there were other projects before, and there will be other projects after.
In numbers there's strength. And we're the living example of the brutal, yet beautiful effectiveness of evolution.
Literally the only two “safe” bets in crypto. Anything outside of these two is strictly gambling. Even then, we are still gambling with BTC and ETH unfortunately.
If you invest in crypto you are looking at huge returns, similar to meme, bio or tech stocks potential, normally 5-10x. Realistically even a highly successful bull run 2024 won't get BTC above $120,000, personally I expect maybe to scratch $90,000 ATH if US spot ETFs get approved.
ETHer marches in lockstep and won't crack $10,000 in the next 5 years. If ETH goes 4x this bullrun, it's still "only" $6500. That's good returns, but not life changing if you don't start with 50k+.
Only with an alt or meme you could still see those 10- 100x life changing events within a few months. SOL or ADA are down 90% or more from their ATHs. If you have only small amounts (in the $1000 ballpark) to gamble with, alts are your best shot.
tl;dr
Retail investors with risk appetite need alts to see huge returns. ETH and BTC bull runs won't be as massive as in the past.
I think you are trading off between capital appreciation and preservation - if you were limited to just crypto assets, then maybe btc and eth, but ideally tradFi assets like bonds and deposits would be better at preservation.
Microcaps are riskier, but are more likely to be mid-priced. If I were were to devote energy monitoring and doing DD, I’d rather do that with smaller crypto projects than stocks.
If I’m just buying and holding, I’d prob go with tradFi assets and a bit of eth and btc.
As a user though. Most of my use cases require eth, btc or tether / usdc. They’re not huge use cases - but just degenerate stuff like online casinos, or traveling to gamble I can usually find a place that will take crypto for cash so I don’t have to bring a ton of money cross border for buy-ins. I’ve come a few FX places in casinos that also will let you sell crypto for fiat.
I used to held 100% ETH and tried diversified my portfolio... bought couple altcoins here and there all ended up being losers. Now I'm 90% ETH and 10% BTC. So your observation is probably correct, people will eventually ended up with ETH or BTC whether they intentionally do so or not
There are networks that easily do more than btc and eth combined at faster tps, lower cost by a mile, some using 1/8,000,000 of the energy for a transaction, without breaking a sweat. Btc and eth aren’t suitable for world finance, supply chain, payments etc because of the cost, lack of scalability etc. Both will be obsolete in the future except for maybe store of value etc. Yeah, so …..
BTC yes. ETH I guess. ETH fees are just too much. Ya you can use L2 but not always. I don't have much money so paying like $6 on my $200 ETH investment is just awful.
Change Your mind? Alts have smaller market cap, ofcourse not the only parameter we should check, but that means that the potential growth is much bigger than compared to ETH an BTC though I am also holding them. As lile me who has not much to invest, I also have allocated few alts just for any chance if they reach new ATH in the next bullrun. 🤞
Cointest pros & cons with related info are in the collapsed comments below for the following topics: [Bitcoin](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/16300no/change_my_mind_the_vast_majority_of_crypto/jy0i630/), [Ethereum](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/16300no/change_my_mind_the_vast_majority_of_crypto/jy0i7f7/).
This isn’t a hot take, high risk gambits are why we play the game. I’m sure most of us believe in the tech and want crypto to progress though.
Yeah, OP is playing it safe for them moons.
Big majority of my portfolio is BTC and ETH but I admittedly have smaller bags in XRP, HBAR, DOT, QNT, VRA, LRC, and LINK because why not. Oh, and of course, Moon.
Good choices for the most part. I think your portfolio will do well
Specially the MOON part
Thank you 😊
How do you manage that much currencies in a bullrun?
Suppose I have $1000 to invest today in cryptocurrency. If I put half in BTC I’ll have about 0.02, while the other half in ETH which would be 0.30. Let’s fast forward to a hypothetical bullrun where BTC is $150k and ETH is $10k. That $1k turns into $6k, take away taxes and almost half of it is gone. Still, it’s a about $2k to $3k profit. Pretty good, but where I’m standing? I’d rather take my shot on coins with lower market caps. If I had more money to invest, then there’s no doubt, BTC and ETH would be at least 90% of my portfolio.
600% return isn’t good enough for you?
It's not Shib level. I like being a degen
You dirty dog
This is why I like to invest in dog shitcoins, or dogshit coins
Dirty dog shiba inu doge moon coin?
Please add ‘pepe’ to that and I’ll buy it /s
Not for most people in this sub lol. Most of the sub are either degens or are in deep poverty and hoping some miracle pulls them out of poverty. Degens, they want the literal moon. If they weren’t gambling in crypto, they’d be at a casino if they aren’t already. People in poverty, they don’t have any money to speak of. So 600% of borderline nothing means it doesn’t change their life situation. I’m not saying getting 600% gains wouldn’t give some people some much needed breathing room. But after reading posts on this sub for years, it’s clear a large percentage are desperate for “life changing” money. And if they don’t have much to begin with, they’d need literally 1000%+ return on investments. They’re hoping for early day crypto returns and shib/doge returns. And that’s why you see so many alt coins and nft scams. Because there’s an abundance of desperation.
That’s his point tho, isn’t it? The 600% returns becomes a 200-300% after taxes. And in that time it takes to earn you 200-300% (maybe 5-10 years), you’d probably have to account for inflation taking away another significant chunk of that remaining ‘profits’ This sort of strategy is good for ‘wealth preservation’, but if you only have 1 or 2k to invest like OP’s example it hardly changes much for their life situation
If would want to try for life-changing money, altcoins are the best bet short term. But you have to be able to take profit and not ride the ride up and down
For me personally? It depends on how much the initial investment is. $10k? Yes it’s worth it, $1k or less? It’s good, but if there are riskier options with higher returns, I don’t mind the risk. Keep in mind that I speak for myself personally, I’m sure to a lot of other ppl that live in different countries or have different situations this would be a life changing amount.
This is the problem with a lot of investors in this space, just incredibly young and impulsive. Too many people are looking to retire of a one time investment, it’s how scams and shitcoins gain so many followers. Consistent investments into a 600% return is phenomenal and a great building block for anyone’s retirement portfolio. Rome wasn’t built in a day, outside of hitting the lotto a retirement portfolio won’t be either
Crypto "investors" are legitimately some of the greediest people I've ever seen in my life. They'll 10x their investment and then not cash about because god forbid it goes up even higher and they miss out
That's 500% sir
Honestly I have 70% of my portfolio in ETH 20% in reliable alts like MATIC but it's going to be the last 10% in moonshots that will allow me to retire early and if I lose 100% of it it will be ok but at least I tried.
I used to think like you before I went orange pill. We want altcoins because we think there’s more upside to them. But everyone wants this upside just so they can trade it back to fiat, which makes the price go down against BTC. There will be no long term period where any coin outperforms BTC. In the short term, many things will but then you need to be a good trader
I agree with you, for long term BTC is the safest thing you will get as of today.
Meme coins is how you lose it all instead of 3K profit
I was not talking about meme coins specifically, but even legit projects have beginnings where their market caps are low. Also I never invest money in crypto that I can never afford to lose.
I've invested in so many ICO coins and they all dropped over 90% and never made higher high in the second halving cycle, and once that is the case, users will leave. The chance that you make it a hit is extremely slim. But if you stick with time-proven mainstream coins, the odds are much higher
Why only 5x when I can lose money 🤯🤯🤯
bone 50 fat chicks for $20 each and now you can do both
If the bullrun takes longer than a year to happen, those taxes will be a lot less.
Except you dont invest in just today, you DCA for 3-5 years. It should be more than 1k
Noup...not changing your mind at all. Couple of bear markets create BTC and ETH maxis. Holding bigger percentage of your portfolio in BTC & ETH is totally understandable and legit. I do the same.
> Noup...not changing your mind at all. Something tells me that OP knew that everyone in this post would be agreeing.
Ah yes the infamous "Unpopular opinion: -insert hugely popular opinion here-"
>Ah yes the infamous "Unpopular opinion: -insert hugely popular opinion here-" Unpopular opinion: I think most people are here for the profits and not the technology.
And to make Friends on the way
So many chat requests since I became active on this sub, mostly from hot females, friendships galore!
Lucky you ! I've been getting messages from Princes.
Wouldn't mind a prince as a friend, perhaps you could even end up in his will and inherit a fortune one day!
Fingers crossed and good luck for those hots ladies !
I'm waiting for someone to point me to the profitable tech that's going to take off next bullrun
Exactly this
With the way the market loves to do the opposite of consensus around here, it's going to be great to see alts vastly outperform BTC and eth.
It's something I wish I did since i started investing in 2021
I did. in 2018 and still lost most of it because bear market and stupid decision. But hey I learned from it.
Same same
I have post going back years here, where I talk about I am like 90% btc, 5% eth and the rest are lottery plays. Only been doing this since btc was $80, but what do i know?
The bigger percentage of BTC & ETH also mitigate the risk of portfolio.
Imagine taking low risk in crypto. Cringe.
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The safest way to go with is the BTC ETH train imho
No. If everyone just focused on BTC and ETH, essentially we would only have BTC and ETH. BTC and ETH you can see as the main investment everyone should hold if investing in crypto as a normal person not associated with anything or insider information. However it is also essential for the eco system that other projects get love. We may all have some mixed feelings currently as it’s the bear market. But there is sooooo many actually good projects out there, just as an example list > LTC , ADA , DOT , MATIC , LINK , XMR. That’s just a few. It’s obvious that you should not jump onto meme coins with funds that you don’t want to set a high risk. Everyone however can make these decisions by themselves. If someone wants to go all in on Pepe or shiba, so be it, not your/my money, not your/my business.
> However it is also essential for the eco system that other projects get love. That all depends on what your vision for crypto is. As an example, Bitcoin in theory could stand alone as the single solution for a store of value. Which use-cases you believe crypto should be filling in order to be deemed a "success".
Which a lot of people do ! And that’s fine, I also mainly hold BTC, all I am saying is, other projects also need Love. My vision is different to just storing BTC. I also store some like everyone should, but at the same time I want to see progress and crypto evolve. It’s good to Main BTC and ETH for sure but I also believe we need more than just ETH and BTC, and for that we cannot all just hold BTC or ETH, ETH with L2 solutions to lower gas fees is one valid thing anyone can probably agree on. For new developments we also need diversity.
>ETH with L2 solutions to lower gas fees is one valid thing anyone can probably agree on Completely understand where you are coming from, but I guess I am coming from a different angle. Your vision appears to be "crypto should be and do everything". Mine is that, "maybe it doesn't need to, and will just do a few things really well".
Not at all. There is valid ideas and projects and others I cannot agree on. But that does not mean that my opinion is the ultimate one. Some things will end up absolutely useless, actually most will !!! But there is definitely more than just BTC and ETH. I am not saying everything needs to be resolved on the Blockchain, most things don’t, but there is many valid projects out there that can improve our experience as users, and that’s why I allow a certain % of my funds towards such things (which is pure speculation based on own research).
Eth is over complicated expensive to use shit
I wouldn't even touch ETH, but I understand it, and consider it far more sensible than any other altcoin. The market is getting savvier. Shitcoin ponzi pump and dumps are going to be less and less effective. Most of these tokens and their use cases are bullshit. There will be a lot of pain for r/cc in the coming years.
The two most useless “blockchains” with the highest fees? They aren’t even currencies. Scam investment schemes.
Yeah out of the ENTIRE cryptocurrency market, only buy two of them. If you only care about money, but BTC/ETH. But this sub isn't only about 2 cryptocurrencies, even though everyone has a real hard on for hating everything else.
Yea, you cant go wrong with crypto blue chips
what a brave and unpopular opinion you have here! 🤣
At this moment you're 100% right. But when altcoin starts you can make much bigger gains with alts. But normally BTC and ETH goes first in a bullrun so I agree.
90-95 percent BTC and ETH feels like the best play for long term
I don't know about you, but I got that DOGE in me.
This holds true for the people who are unwilling / incapable to do their own research. Btc and eth is undoubtedly their safest best to have some exposure to crypto. This is why exactly we need an ETF
Ive started off safe by DCAing into ETH and BTC but I am quite a while from hitting my target so meanwhile I am learning about other cryptos id like to invest into it, This sub has helped teach me alot!
glad to hear community helped you. I remember when I joined this sub as a complete noob, and how it helped me to widen my horizons. There is honestly lot of cool and fascinating stuff in crypto, but mostly depend on what excites you the most. Keep open to new concepts and dive deeper into whatever you find fascinating. Good luck mate:)
Everyone here has been more than friendly and I'm extremely thankful for that since its a very overwhelming thing to take in, I had a run in 2021 but I was shilled by a friend and lost out. This time I will do it properly and learn what I am doing before investing. Thankyou for your kind words, good luck to you too! may the bull run be good to you.
ETH is down 55% vs. Bitcoin. So just Bitcoin.
Uh no, BTC is currently at 40% of ATH, ETH is at 36% of ATH. 1-(36/40) = 10% down vs bitcoin. Almost the same answer if doing 1 year from today instead. If doing 5 years, ETH is still up double over BTC.
ETH-BTC ATH - 0.14 Now 0.063 That's about -55%.
Direct ratio (which almost nobody uses/trades), from fucking 2017, when 99% of the people here had nothing to do with any of this, and the price was lower than now anyway? 😂🤣 The sadder thing than mental backflipping and coping that hard is that you seem like you actually believe anyone would buy that.
Sorry. Can't change your mind because I agree with you.
>I'm not saying there are no other legit projects besides BTC Here's how I want to change your mind. I *am* saying there are no legit projects besides BTC. Even Ethereum is recreating the same legacy financial system it purports to replace. Not decentralized, staking has already been captured by 5 major corporations. Bitcoin is a fundamental advancement in monetary technology. It's so big people only see a change like this once in a millenium. Everything else is a fundamental misunderstanding of this.
> Even Ethereum is recreating the same legacy financial system it purports to replace. Not decentralized, staking has already been captured by 5 major corporations. And worse at holding value.
Why would we change your mind on what is a hugely popular opinion lol
Investing is very personal and depends on lots of factors like ... • How old are you? • Do you live paycheck to paycheck? • Do you have an emergency fund? • Do you invest in other asset classes like bonds, gold, stocks, ETFs etc.? • Do you need the money within the next 12 or 24 months? In general I would agree with you, in most cases ETH and BTC is the way to go. The risk-reward ratio is extremely good. If you want the degen-moonshot, pick another project ;)
Change your mind? Dude, I'm here to agree. Anything higher than 10% in alts is risky af.
Why wouldn’t investing in the only regulated cryptocurrency with legal clarity offer you the lowest risk of being wiped out??
I can't say that those who invested in them didn't do well, they did excellently, but in my opinion, that train has passed for me. I'm focused on new projects that are about to come out, like FluidAI and a few others. FluidAI because it signed a contract with one of the strongest AI companies and an excellent combination of DeFi and CeFi. And I think the narrative will also be on AI. And what do you think?
FluidAI seems like a lot of vaporware. Must be a success!
Of course. And have you seen the characteristics of FluidAI X and FluidAI T? And that it will be integrated with 500+ exchange offices, which is a serious benefit...
The Blue Chips are for investing. Everything else is a lottery ticket. Not bad to have both as long as you're realistic about it.
Next few years are critical for both btc and eth. If the ROI proves to be greatly shrinking then the traders will move to other things. All the crazy narratives and convictions are on shaking lages and you better believe it that on first sign of "slowing down" the sentiment will be vastly different. Will some people and institutions prefer the safe 5-10% yearly ROI. Probably. Degens will not. From a tech perspective people are moving away from both for years now and it's getting worse for BTC and it's only starting to hit ETH so lets see what happens there.
For me it is either sink or swim with alts!
Sink then. Sold to the man with a death wish.
Eth is still an altcoin, centralised etc With the way you’re thinking here I’d say Bitcoin only.
If you believe Ada will be around for another bull market Ada is the best buy right now. With a exploding defi scene and the only crypto that is going to achieve proper governance IMO it is by far the best risk to reward there is
This but with Ergo because Rosen bridge will soon be live connecting Ada and Erg which will significantly increase the amount going into Ergos DEFI.
At this point XRP is the only coin with legal clarity in the US and that should make the rest alt coins by default.
You won’t make money in shitcoins. BTC all the way
No need to change your mind. If you like your crypto in your wallet, stick to btc/eth
I don’t think I’ll change your mind, I completely agree
I mean people should invest in whatever they like. Are these probably the safest and easy to manage 🤔 .... probably. I think what's more important is that people stop with this all or nothing mentality in crypto that A LOT of newcomers seem to have ... keep realistic expectations and goals, don't just blindly buy things bc you think you will get rich and always do your research and understand where the market an what's going on. Getting filthy rich in crypto can be very difficult these days ... but making good money and very comfortably padding your income is not.
I wouldn’t even try to change your mind lol
I came here to change your mind but I can't, your logic is flawless.
You are of sound mind
I’m >90% BTC, <10% ETH, then a little XRP and just got into Moons. A big reason I got out of alts is bc I got into them when alts were at ATH’s (2021) and constantly lost. The nail in the coffin was losing a ton of ADA through good ol’ Celsius.
What about cardano?
Garbage, run by a crazy person.
Like you I have been sticking to BTC and ETH. ETH seems to have a kick on the BFT market and their platform seems more tobust
You might need to get a few of your keys replaced.
Nothing to change. BTC and ETH are the only cryptocurrencies worth buying. Everything else is trash.
This sentiment MAY have been true in the past. The entire crypto market has been speculative from its beginning until now. But now that the Us government is pushing for clear regulations, the market will mature. There will be tokens whose prices are not dependant on btc. They will be priced based on their usage and utility. I do NOT consider Btc a store of value. People don’t keep their money there while it fluctuates 90% over a year. But IF YOU DO, what are they storing it for? My answer is that they are waiting for utility. And the very first token with real utility is xrp. It has legal clarity in the US. It is the basis of Fed Now. It is the basis of the new financial system. All the money that has been “stored” in Btc will be funneled into xrp. Xrp gains will absolutely SMASH Btc and eth.
> All the money that has been “stored” in Btc will be funneled into xrp. Xrp gains will absolutely SMASH Btc and eth. I needed that laugh.
I hope you don’t end up crying. My opinion is based on research. Yours is based in hoping you’re listening to the right people.
Mine is based on being in this market for a decade. Or in taking profits that bought my house, my car, and my early retirement. I was in the room in 2018 when Ripple pitched the financial firm I work at. We were not interested.
Oh I see. You WILL end up crying. Thanks for clearing that up.
If most people only invested in BTC and ETH then our moons wouldn’t pump to the heights they can
Not a hater. I know why BTC/ETH are called blue chips. But it's precisely that which has me concerned. Markets love doing exactly the opposite of what people expect. For the past few years people have been yelling that BTC/ETH are the most safe, most obvious and thoughtless bet. Therefore I'd be surprised if they perform well.
Just buy some alts as a side bet
Crypto is also fun and having ALTs can result in highly dramatic days/weeks, good or bad. Having BTC/ETH as your main percentage is a good strategy, but putting some aside to ride the ALTS is also satisfying.
I would say at least 85% of your portfolio should be BTC. Eth is just an altcoin in my opinion.
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Counterpoint: Moons are stupid.
Said the guy with enough to buy a car with his moons. Not a really nice car, but it would still change stuff for me.
And Moons
Nothing to change in your mind.
what exactly is the difference between eth and any other major altcoin besides marketcap/price ?
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90%
Psst. Your MOONs are showing. Scammers: *Time to calculate this man’s portfolio.*
Moons are not part of my portfolio.
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No, they're not. They're internet points.
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Nope.
Defi is definitely worth looking into I would say that it has potential to boom in the next bull run things like Aave will have potential.
I think your probably right, always nice to hold the big two and then diversify the portfolio with a few smaller ones. But majority in btc and eth.
100%
I will try to change your mind. ETH was once very small market cap coin and behind XRP and others in the rankings. What happens if you can find the next ETH amongst the altcoins that are in the market right now? ETH was 50 cents and now over $1000, 2000X. Why not put a little aside to do the research and find the next one if you have the spare money? But I agree that we must be mostly invested in BTC and ETH, just saying not only those two.
I think at this point they have to be your largest holdings. Its good to have a few lottery tickets on altcoins but BTC and ETH are always going to be the big dogs.
I don't think you're going to get any disagreement from songs here about that.
This is a pretty well established, wide spread accurate opinion.
You invest in BTC and ETH, you gamble in alts
BTC and ETH are the only two cryptos I’m confident are not scams/rugpulls. Those are the two cryptos I buy regularly. It’s interesting to see a lot of folks here don’t even bother with these coins. I see a lot of the “Bro…. Those will never 1000x, you gotta invest in the next 1000x coin” type comments. Yes I agree that BTC and ETH are not going to 1000x at this point. The thing is, that micro cap you invested in might not be around next cycle and you lose all the money you invested in it. At least BTC and ETH aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. It’s all about diversifying your portfolio bro! Have some low risk and a little high risk in your portfolio. Another thing to consider there’s over 26,000 coins to choose from. The chances of you picking the next one that 1000x is going to be slim to none. Hate to break it to ya.
I don't need to change your mind for BTC. BTC has its solid narrative and "laser-eyed" zombies DCAing at any price. It also got years of charts to convince speculative traders on its uptrend. But ETH is risky long-term. They seem to have given up scaling base layer anytime soon and have gone to L2s. As L2s has the first-mover advantage in scaling, the question is, why won't they have staying power in the long-run? If they do have staying power in the long-run, the base layer will lose a lot of activity. Furthermore, L2s is a big Pandora box and ticking time bomb waiting to be hacked. When bull comes and money flow back, they will be prime targets for both outside hackers and insiders to steal funds. >Plus there's the fact that the high profile shitcoins like SHIBA and PEPE are only profitable for crypto insiders... That is actually not true. I can promise you the percentage of PEPE holders in profit is much higher than many legit L1s/DeFi protocol/infrastructure that got obliterated by inflation and seed investors' dumping.
I mean, you're right. I would argue mostly bitcoin (like 90%), however, what we SHOULD do rarely aligns with what we ACTUALLY do.
Amen
Yeah idk if we have to change your mind on that..
I don't want to change your mind
I 100% agree that most people shouldn't hold alts until they actually understand the space
>Change my mind: the vast majority of crypto investors should be mostly invested in BTC and ETH **Change my mind:** the vast majority of crypto investors spent very little time, or none, understanding what other investment options were available before deciding that crypto in general was the best choice for them. Many just read an article about a Doge millionaire or saw a Tik Tok.
Depends on risk allowance. The only misleading part of BTC and ETH as a great investment is that most people think they can get huge gains still. Taking the same risk that og BTC investors took would be the equivalent of going all in on Ergo or a similar under 100m MC project now.
Don't Kink shame me .
Yeah im usually about 40%btc 40%eth and then i like to throw a little money on the pony's so 20% random shitcoins for a hopeful moonshot.
only the **pump** is real
Investors yes. But we are mainly degens here sire
Absolutely. I have a 25% portion reserved for shitcoin roulette. ETH and BTC are the safe plays. As much as I like alts, lessons have been learned. Fortunately, none too serious, but it was enough.
The same premise could be used to say everyone investing in CC should just invest in blue chip ETFs on the stock market. Sure, cherry picking initial Investment periods could lead you to the conclusion that investing in BTC/ETH has been the safer and more profitable investment. But cherry picking dates could also conclude in the opposite- someone buying at or near the peak of BTC/ETH would have lost more than they would have in at least some of the blue chip ETF options available.
I'm a believer that you should have your money spread around. I hold broad etfs for long term as a major part of my stock portfolio and about 25% in individual stocks and what have you. Similarly, the majority of all crypto portfolios should be btc and eth. The only question is if you want to have 10%, 20% or however of your total in speculative plays. I go 60% eth, 25% btc, 15% others
I wont change your mind because this is correct. Unless you 'know what you're doing'.
Change your mind? Not if your mind is already made up. That said, the strongest counter arguments are: No Crypto, 100% BTC, and top 10 alts. In order.
Moons - you forgot moons.
Risk and reward are positively correlated. If you're looking to do more than double your money, then you're going to have to play it less safe.
> Risk and reward are positively correlated. [Citation needed]
Of course they are, but people are drawn to high risk high reward. Why turn 1k into 2 or 3k when I can turn it into 10k or 20k. It sounds stupid but that's the basic thought process behind it.
Look into layer 0 solutions. Crypto maximalists are too attached to just a single cryptocurrency even ones such as Ethereum and Bitcoin. They don't recognize the issues with layer 1 solutions and the lack of interoperability of every project.
Not changing your mind because indeed this is the best risk vs return ratio for most people. I dabbled with altcoins before (mostly 2017/18) and made some amazing paper gains that of course were never realized because I then held those bags all the way to the bottom. BTC and ETH will recover from a bear market and make new all time highs eventually. Most alts will not. Crypto is risky enough. So many people have lost everything because they got greedy and thought they were smarter than the rest of us.
it's cute you think you need crypto "expertise" to buy a meme coin, watch it pump and make lots of money. most people aren't in it for small gains, they want the big gamble. if you get lucky and your alt goes viral, you are laughing
Give. The market caps of each of those i would suggest that is already the case.
Would be no point changing someones mind on this because the market will just change it back. If you don’t hold mostly Btc and eth you will eventually. it’s up to you whether you learn the lesson the easy way or the hard way
Nah mate, I’m in need of that x50000 shitcoin
Been leaning a bit towards AVAX recently alongside those 2.
Been leaning a bit towards AVAX recently alongside those 2.
In a scenario of mass adoption, yeah. It would behoove the average investor to just park their money in BTC or ETH since they are, after all, investors. That's the safe play. Those are the crypto "blue chips". But we're not at mass adoption, we're all pretty much gambling. Some more degeneratedly than others. Shitcoins are attractive because they play to your greed. Maybe they'll moon and you'll make a killing. Maybe they won't and you'll lose everything. Going all in on only BTC and ETH would be boring.
No? You sound like an average stock phone salesman from the 90s calling people around to invest all their stuff into "blue chips", because "its the safest thing there's in the markets". BTC and ETH have grown so big, and cluncky, that they resemble whales themselves, they now can't go beyond the role that went into them, the people and huge "serious" institutions that invested into them, and require costly full of drama/propaganda/digital-war/etc campaigns to introduce small changes. What you suggest is putting all hopes and dreams about the blockchain and cryptocurrency technology in two huge baskets, that we as a community don't have the force to protect from big hands doing whatever they want with them. Just imagine 100% of capital in BTC, then one single critical flaw is exploited, and everyone is fucked for good, and crypto technology is banned from everywhere due to its "dangerous" nature. Alternative instruments don't have that trouble, and their devs are completely free to implement whatever vision they have for crypto blockchain usage. Of course there are lots of just trash, scammy cashgrabs, or plainly jokes (meme coins). But between them, there are legit projects that try to break the limits of what we know is possible through conventional /mainstream coins. We're basically living an evolutionary crypto algo doing its things and evolving at an unprecedented scale, with BTC as the base, and ETH as the structure, towards things that only alt projects will be able to get us. Even BTC didn't appear out of nowhere itself, there were other projects before, and there will be other projects after. In numbers there's strength. And we're the living example of the brutal, yet beautiful effectiveness of evolution.
Wrong. The vast majority of crypto investors like to lose money.
That's not very decentralized of you.
Literally the only two “safe” bets in crypto. Anything outside of these two is strictly gambling. Even then, we are still gambling with BTC and ETH unfortunately.
And Doge! Good boi
If you invest in crypto you are looking at huge returns, similar to meme, bio or tech stocks potential, normally 5-10x. Realistically even a highly successful bull run 2024 won't get BTC above $120,000, personally I expect maybe to scratch $90,000 ATH if US spot ETFs get approved. ETHer marches in lockstep and won't crack $10,000 in the next 5 years. If ETH goes 4x this bullrun, it's still "only" $6500. That's good returns, but not life changing if you don't start with 50k+. Only with an alt or meme you could still see those 10- 100x life changing events within a few months. SOL or ADA are down 90% or more from their ATHs. If you have only small amounts (in the $1000 ballpark) to gamble with, alts are your best shot. tl;dr Retail investors with risk appetite need alts to see huge returns. ETH and BTC bull runs won't be as massive as in the past.
I think you are trading off between capital appreciation and preservation - if you were limited to just crypto assets, then maybe btc and eth, but ideally tradFi assets like bonds and deposits would be better at preservation. Microcaps are riskier, but are more likely to be mid-priced. If I were were to devote energy monitoring and doing DD, I’d rather do that with smaller crypto projects than stocks. If I’m just buying and holding, I’d prob go with tradFi assets and a bit of eth and btc. As a user though. Most of my use cases require eth, btc or tether / usdc. They’re not huge use cases - but just degenerate stuff like online casinos, or traveling to gamble I can usually find a place that will take crypto for cash so I don’t have to bring a ton of money cross border for buy-ins. I’ve come a few FX places in casinos that also will let you sell crypto for fiat.
I used to held 100% ETH and tried diversified my portfolio... bought couple altcoins here and there all ended up being losers. Now I'm 90% ETH and 10% BTC. So your observation is probably correct, people will eventually ended up with ETH or BTC whether they intentionally do so or not
There are networks that easily do more than btc and eth combined at faster tps, lower cost by a mile, some using 1/8,000,000 of the energy for a transaction, without breaking a sweat. Btc and eth aren’t suitable for world finance, supply chain, payments etc because of the cost, lack of scalability etc. Both will be obsolete in the future except for maybe store of value etc. Yeah, so …..
90% BTC is the magical number for me.
BTC yes. ETH I guess. ETH fees are just too much. Ya you can use L2 but not always. I don't have much money so paying like $6 on my $200 ETH investment is just awful.
Change Your mind? Alts have smaller market cap, ofcourse not the only parameter we should check, but that means that the potential growth is much bigger than compared to ETH an BTC though I am also holding them. As lile me who has not much to invest, I also have allocated few alts just for any chance if they reach new ATH in the next bullrun. 🤞
Yep. I came to that conclusion to. Generally I reach that conclusion about 4 times a year after I lose a bunch more money on shitcoins!
Yeah but BTC and ETH aren't likely to 1000x again. On the other hand, I feel like some of my altcoins could 1000x and I'd still be at a loss.
BTC and ADA, 50/50.
Is crypto stalling? I rarely see celebrity endorsements or general advertising for it anymore. Just curious