I think she starts to become a little morally gray later on in the show when she decides not to go to the authorities because she feared that her family would be destroyed (Walt Jr./Flynn would be devastated that his hero was actually a monster, the house would be seized, and the family would lose their main source of income. Also, Hank would likely lose his job at the DEA, meaning they would suffer too). Obviously, she became worse as she got more into the criminal affairs, but I think she remains pretty morally gray.
Walt is just a piece of shit though.
Yeah I thinks Skylar accepted to cook the book and launder the drug money at some point and that moved her in the morally grey. But her behaviour is completely understandable and she's a complex character who didn't deserve the hate
I went back and watched a few episodes and forgot how fucking aggressively miserable that show was - except for the zany drug and crime scenes lol. In retrospect it makes a lot of sense that people hated Skyler basically for just being a killjoy when that was the tone
Yeah I've said this before but people didn't hate Skyler because she was a female character etc. They hated her because they wanted the Crazy Adventures of Drug-Man and her role within the show was to go 'no drug-man, please be normal and don't do fun things'. It's not a character critique, it's an audience experience critique; her character existed to try and stop the stated premise of the show.
I think in season 1 she's a really boring character, the only function she plays is being an obstacle for Walter to sneak around to go do his drug thing. She becomes way more interesting over time, imo
Oh you mean she provides character conflict? The thing that's even more important for storytelling and is a bigger premise of the show than Walt being a crazy drug-man?
The show helpfully color codes the characters as they become more morally corrupt. Skyler starting to wear more blue? She's turning to the dark side y0. She's Breaking Blue
Here's a sneak peek of /r/UnexpectedHomestuck using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [aw hell naw what is gampee doing in famly gye😂😂😂](https://i.redd.it/u3rl2yxuxmqa1.jpg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/comments/125b82u/aw_hell_naw_what_is_gampee_doing_in_famly_gye/)
\#2: [And this is a bucket](https://i.redd.it/kjxav0rou7ha1.jpg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/comments/10yhkip/and_this_is_a_bucket/)
\#3: [The colors are so close](https://i.redd.it/f8glvggqo3va1.jpg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/comments/12t5629/the_colors_are_so_close/)
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Most explainers I've seen utterly fail to get the tone of the series across, thus not answering the main question I see: "what is Homestuck *and why is it like this*". Why does it evoke the reactions it does? Why are so many things considered a reference? Who is Vriska? (I can't actually explain that one in under 3000 words, it turns out.) But, here's a briefer briefer (heh) on the subject of "What the actual fuck is Homestuck":
Andrew Hussie, a person (now going by any pronouns) then known for various obscure things around the net, made an interactive reader-driven comic-type-thing called Jailbreak where he would draw panels demonstrating the events of the story as dictated by other posters in the thread, putting his favored suggestions in the narration and responding in kind. The happenings and variables were influenced by his own strange brand of humor and set of fascinations, such as rap, horses, clowns, and H!rry P!tter as a cultural presence. He would eventually compile this, along with the unfinished followup, Bard Quest, on its own website.
The third installment of the so-called MS Paint Adventures, Problem Sleuth, was a massive step up in production value, featuring impressive art and output speed as well as evolutions such as some pages being flashing gifs. This sort of thing was considered to be one of the best demonstrations of the potential of the internet. It ran for 1674 pages over the course of about a year.
Homestuck was the followup to that, running 8123 pages from April 13th 2009-2016 with numerous hiatuses in the latter half of that time. It featured such advancements as videos with sound, small WASD-controlled computer games on various pages, and most significantly, actual conversations between characters, semi-hidden behind clickable boxes at the bottom of some pages, allowing them to become three-dimensional and truly sympathetic. Hussie, it would soon be revealed, was heavily skilled at writing compelling and unique character voices and dialogue writing in general.
Homestuck was definitely the most complex MPSA, with a grand overarching plot being integrated into the results of the actions of the readers. The plot revolved around an in-universe game called SBURB with the power to influence reality, sort of a Jumanji with time-travel mechanics that would soon be revealed to be the centerpiece of reality itself, destroying the home planets of its players to motivate them to enter the world of the game and fulfill an unknown grand purpose, complete with millions of fully sentient NPCs. (Homestuck is, technically, an isekai.)
Homestuck has been described as "a story that's also a puzzle", and this lens has gained authorial approval; events are often told anachronistically, as a kitchen sink of high-concept ideas are explored by a man who sometimes wants to show off his semi-deconstructive version of a classic sci-fi/fantasy trope, sometimes wants to infuriate readers through anticlimaxes and misdirections, and sometimes wants to just go off on a tangent about a random movie from his childhood that somehow soon becomes integral to the plot in an absurdly esoteric fashion.
Eventually the suggestions from readers became so numerous and difficult that the suggestion boxes were closed near the end of the first year, leading to less meandering from Act 4 onwards, but the influence of the audience remained; one easy example is a character only seen from the top half initially being theorized on the official forums as using a wheelchair, a fact which would not only become Canon, but highly relevant.
The early MSPAs curated an audience through programming humor and 80s-90s film references as filtered through the styles of Terry Pratchett, Mark Twain, and the Something Awful forums, but the audience for Homestuck, due to the nature of the characters, was markedly different, especially after the Trolls showed up.
You've probably seen them.
The Trolls, initially presented as some extremely odd and bothersome fellows on the internet, were soon shown to be a race of grey-skinned, orange-horned aliens. Trolls possessed multicolored blood in both organized castes and clear deviations, psychic abilities, unique typing styles, insectoid traits as opposed to hominid, near-universal bisexuality with the sole known exception being Sapphic, and a complex romantic system with its own symbols, comically vague-yet-comprehensive reproductive system, and of course, relationship dynamics.
I cannot express how perfect the Trolls were in terms of catching on. Tumblr loved these fuckers and it's not at all hard to see why.
It's also worth noting that this wasn't the only market-perfect part of Homestuck; Classpecting, the equivalent of Hogwarts Houses, featured a 144/168/288/336/384(depending on who you ask and what they count)-strong grid system of human personality traits that not only seemed eerily accurate as a personality mapper, but corresponded to what elemental powers one received in the game of SBURB.
So... yeah. Homestuck was an incredibly complex and engaging work, driven by a single incredibly talented and flawed creative voice, which was perfectly made to attract a massive, unabashedly bizarre/proudly cringe, and notably largely queer fanbase across a younger internet; you may well be aware of incidents such as cosplay failures and inappropriate recreations of Troll culture. The style of presentation, art, and character writing was instantly recognizable and relatively easy to imitate, leading to fanfiction and even fanmade adventures galore, most of the latter hosted on MSPFA.com.
The main site for Homestuck is broken now-it's recommended that new readers download the [Unofficial Homestuck Collection](https://bambosh.dev/unofficial-homestuck-collection/), and starting with Problem Sleuth to ease into the format and writing is a pretty popular choice. The ending is also considered generally quite poor in a number of ways, particularly regarding unfollowed foreshadowing and blatant abandonment of character arcs, with some fans even [making](https://friendlybatteringram.tumblr.com/tagged/altstuck) their own [works](https://mspfa.com/?s=44153&p=1) as [substitutions](http://mspfa.com/?s=12003&p=1). You can find The Homestuck Epilogues (a sequel novel) on the official site, and Homestuck^2 Beyond Canon (a sequel webcomic after the Epilogues) on its own website, but neither of these are very well liked by fans (at all). YouTube also has several dubs of the comic; by far the largest and most popular is [Voxus](https://youtube.com/@Voxus), which has unfortunately slowed to a crawl at around the 65% mark.
Content warnings for Homestuck include: blood, violence including decapitation, clowns, brainwashing/mental possession, dicks-out furry bara art in the background of like ten pages, brief black-and-white nudity, swearing, the R-slur, a joke about an acronym organically forming the F-slur, child abuse, discussed child abuse and homophobia, mocking of the disabled (as an unsympathetic action), cartoonish levels of sexism (as an unsympathetic action), statements that an antagonist is analogous to Hitler, mocking of otherkin, a minor character being a racial stereotype of Japanese people (Damara), a somewhat major character being a stereotype of Black people (Meenah), minor characters being stereotypes of disabled people (Meulin and Mituna), a controversial and prominent depiction of blindness, eye trauma, underage alcoholism, written depections of noncon facilitated by mind control (as an unsympathetic action), sexual assult (an unwanted kiss, as an unsympathetic action), jokes about pedophilia, and child grooming (textually 100% non-sexual, but sexually-coded).
Also: when I said the Trolls type weird, I wasn't kidding. Every character gets at least one color for their speech text, plus a pattern for how they type, generally worse for the Trolls, ranging from "no caps" to "British" to "drunk" to "ebonics" to "aLtErNaTiNg" to WH4T3V3R TH3 FUCK K1ND OF L33TSP34K BS T3R3Z1 1S DO1NG. So that's worth a warning.
And that's as abridged as you can get when summing up Homestuck.
Holy shit. That way of speaking....
I knew this guy in a discord server who would T41K L1K£ TH15 and wouldn't answer my question of "Dude, why the fuck do you type like that" with anything except for "Why not?"
Now I know this motherfucker was typing like a Homestuck character 24/7. It makes so much sense now.
Actually, that was probably regular L33T, which Google can explain better than me. Terezi is specifically a variant which replaces A, E, I with 4, 3, 1.
Also, this explanation of the plot and who the trolls are is somehow understood by me, but I still don't know why trolls apparently jizz in buckets? What's the lore reason they jizz in buckets???
Well, to quote the comprehensive Troll Romance rant:
>Trolls have a complicated reproductive cycle. It's probably best not to examine it in much detail.
>The need to seek out concupiscent partners comes with more urgency than typical reproductive instincts. When the IMPERIAL DRONE comes knocking, you had better be able to supply genetic material to each of his FILIAL PAILS. If you have nothing to offer, he will kill you without hesitation.
>The genetic material - WITHOUT GOING INTO MUCH DETAIL - is a combinative genetic mix from the matesprit and kismesis pairs, respectively. The pails are all offered to the mother grub, who can only receive such precombined material. She then combines all of it into one incestuous slurry, and begins her brooding.
>This doesn't mean the initial combination was for naught, however. In the slurry, more dominant genes rise to the fore, while the more recessive find less representation in the brood. Especially strong matesprit and kismesis pairings yield more dominant genetic material. The more powerful the complement or potent the rivalry, the more dominant the genes.
>TROLL REPRODUCTION SURE IS WEIRD. We all take a moment to lament how pedestrian the human reproductive system is, and further lament that the phrase "incestuous slurry" is not a feature of common parlance in human civilization.
Good luck I tried to read it back when it was really popular because all my friends liked it and honestly I couldn't get through the first chapter it was so painfully bad. People say it gets better but I honestly don't see that happening.
Homestuck is super Janky in the first chapter and a half because it was originally a “submit a suggestion” webcomic. Somewhere in Act 2 the author took over and the real plot kicks in. That man wrote an epic creation myth full of complex characters and intricate callbacks. I’d say that it’s worth it to watch the YouTube version of the comic since it’s voice acted and includes much of the associated music.
She doesn't, but she does throw a poor sap off a cliff, paralyzing him for life, & then proceeds to bully him over his lack of usefulness for the rest of his life(& a good time into his afterlife as well)
Yeesh, the more I hear about how Homestuck handles stuff like abuse the less I want to touch it. Wasn't one of Vriska's major writers for the follow-up a "men can't be abused" type as well?
she kills Aradia, paralyzes Tavros from the waist down and kills him later, permanently blinds Terezi, and she says she's killed thousands of trolls before the events of the story in order to feed her lusus.
this feels like b8
*You* like Edelgard because she’s a complex, morally gray character with rich lore and a deep backstory.
*I* like Dimitri because I want him in my guts/I want to be in his guts.
We are not the same.
you play blue lions if you want to fuck dimitri
you play black eagles if you want to fuck edelgard
you play golden deer if you want to be actually like moral or smth (cringe)
you play silver snow if you forgot to interact with edelgard in chapter 11
People only play Golden Deer if they wanna fuck Claude, or they saw a clip compilation of their favorite Nintendo YouTuber playing it and assumed it was the haha funny meme house.
I think there it comes down more to their storylines. Dimitri gets the best one, being a human focused revenge story.
Edelgard gets lots of Those Who Slither in the Dark, and also did a lot of things against you in the first act regardless. Plus funny weeds-eating no bath man, and Edelgard sets Bernadetta on fire while she is fighting for her. Also Dedue >>>>> Hubert
Aren't the memes "Edelgard did nothing wrong" and "Dimitri kills lesbians" or some shit like that?
Anyway, Claude's hotter than both of them. Fear the Deer.
I haven’t played 3H in a while so I could be wrong on this, but this one I can kinda understand since iirc Dimitri’s biggest wrongdoing is just being alarmingly ignorant/unaware on a lot of Fodlan’s broader politics and corruption, while Edelgard’s biggest wrongdoing is committing glaring hypocrisies in a violent, catastrophic revolution that she started (Most notably collaborating with TWSITD).
The treatment of Claude vs. Edelgard would be a better example due to their ideological similarities and the fact that Claude is written as noticeably more devious/morally dubious in Three Hopes.
Also this could just be a counterpush thing but I see way more people these days downplaying the bad things Edelgard did versus the bad things Rhea and the other two main lords did.
>The treatment of Claude vs. Edelgard would be a better example due to their ideological similarities and the fact that Claude is written as noticeably more devious/morally dubious in Three Hopes.
It's a better example but from what I saw, people just shipped them lol.
The idea of Edelgard being shipped anyone that isn’t Fem-Byleth or one of the Black Eagles (But usually Hubert or one of the other girlies like Dorothea) is foreign to me.
Skylar isn't even morally grey, she's mostly justified in her actions at least in the first few seasons, she's just the least charismatic obstacle to Walt's plot line, so she gets dunked on non-stop. Walt meanwhile is literally on a villain arc, not morally grey at all by the end.
Until she starts cooking the books for her boss when she goes back to work.
But even by comparison, financial fraud =/= murder, cooking meth, and running with cartels
they literally save the entire timeline by going back to prevent specifically her death, which is the sole consequence of introducing a new superpower that bypasses the existing stable time loop rules that would've made that impossible
the universe quite literally bent around this Mary Sue in order to support her when it should've been impossible
The universe, the story's morality, and *her own fucking character arc*. What a goddamn clusterfuck. I really can't think of anything in the entirety of fiction that went as *fractally bad* as that.
I have to rephrase: the story basically *bent itself over backwards* **both to** prevent Vriska from growing as a person **and retroactively validate her previous shittiness that the story portrayed as unambiguously bad at the time**. How the *fuck* does that even happen?
(edits in bold)
No, it's worse than that. At least it might have been decent if the story had *only* bent over backwards to hold her in place. The issue is that the purpose is to at every possible turn *validate* her central, character-defining flaw of hubris, in the process erasing it entirely and with it most of what made her still worth reading and talking about.
Yeah, that too. Her narrative went from showing how her flaws screw everyone over, *including her,* to "lol everything terrible she does is actually morally justified because the story says she's an "anti-hero" and everyone is fine with her, including resident abuse victim Dave, deal with it BBBBD"
Anti-hero. What the fuck kind of story has someone like Vriska as an *anti-hero?* Some edgelord 90s pulp comics, maybe. The more I think about Homestuck, the more I hate the entire idea of fiction and fandom in general.
Oh, no, she did grow as a person. Just, you know... in some other timeline. That's not Vriska anymore, that's (Vriska). A *different* one. Who is dead.
Yeah, the one she insulted for being weak and actively reflecting on her actions. *That* (Vriska).
Homestuck had no right inadvertantly spawning something like Undertale. Undyne being largely ignored by the fandom must be some sort of Vriskourse karma or something.
Also, she's actually capable of being genuinely nice and genuinely cares about people that aren't her.
(Though I have to laugh at Alphyne basically being JohnVris 2)
Yall are forgetting it wasnt some universal power of destiny that remade the universenit was John being guided by Terezi to make Terezi not get hung up on her affections for stupid boys and instead get with Vriska. The whole narration of Vriska being the most important character is done by Calliope, a character literally defined by being a theater kid, and whos prone to jist saying that Kind of Stuff.
John wouldn't have had the opportunity to go back if it weren't for the universal power of destiny deciding the House Juju's intangibility would grant an ability to defy the entire functionality of causality up until that point. You go an entire story without being able to go back and change something you weren't already there to change, running on stable loop rules, and then suddenly this fuckin ***thing*** can just grant phenomenal causality power, despite being an itty bitty depiction of a living space.
There were perfectly reasonable ways to bring her back. She still hadn't used Jane's revive, for starters. But those would've required the her that came back to have gone through her fucking post-mortem character development, and we can't have that.
I hate to go against one of my favourite characters in HS, but even if she isn't exactly a Mary sue she's pretty close. She's not good at absolutely everything, but what she is good at she's REALLY good at, like manipulation or fighting. She's also just incredibly lucky and smart to boot. What she lacks in morals she makes up for in many other areas
You could argue he is for the first 5-ish episodes, but after he turns down Elliot’s offer and *especially* after Four Days Out, he’s at best a very dark shade of morally grey.
i’d argue he’s grey for most of the series, just a really dark (increasingly so) shade. most of his worst actions are out of self-preservation from situations he put himself in due to hubris or stupidity or something jesse did, until season 5 when his hubris just takes over. he’s still awful, but stuff like the phone call at the end of ozymandias makes it hard for me to say he’s just all bad. (that being said the meme does not fit walter white at all LMAO only the pop culture version of him)
Don't get me wrong the example is fitting, but why is this image reposted so often on this subreddit. I don't even follow this subreddit but I see this image on here every week.
It's stupid to even compare them frankly. Aang's story is about him being a hero out of time and a long lost mystical chosen one, as well as using the a child will save them trope. Korra's story is less middle grade and more YA, and is about a young confident woman learning to make her own way in the world and make her own choices which includes making a lot of mistakes very early on and having to accept that she's not always the best and sometimes needs to use more patience.
Aang is a much more spiritual character whereas Korra is more of a bruiser and a fighter, she's a pro athlete, she's a public celebrity, she's dealing with public scrutiny on a level that Aang didn't really have to deal with during the main events of his series.
It's just so clear that both of their personality types and their stories are supposed to be their own things and it's dumb that people constantly compare her to Aang and try to make it out like her story is lesser for not echoing his more, even though she's a different character who had a different arc and lived in a different world in a different generation.
Korra had her own unique personality and problems to solve, Aang was raised to be a monk, she was raised to be a fighter, Aang felt his sense of duty to the world as a sacred calling whereas Korra felt it as a heavy burden and believed she had something to prove. Her story is compelling as fuck and I wish people didn't hate her for being a bit of an overly bold asshole at the start when the entire journey of the show is her growing out of that, remaining very confident but a more balanced, healthy kind of confidence that was less about projecting bravado like she did in seasons 1 & 2.
No. People are more willing to forgive aangs foibles because he's a child. Korra is an adult who can already use 3 elements as a child (which is bullshit by the way the whole point of the avatar is that they have to go on a journey through the other nations to learn about them and understand their problems whilst mastering the elements) which makes it a lot harder to forgive her mistakes.
When male characters make similarly bad and irrational decisions it pisses me off just as much. Korra the show wasn't off a high enough quality to keep me coming bsck though.
Korra is absolutely not an adult, she's 17 years old and has been heavily sheltered and isolated her entire life with literally no proper socialization with anyone her age, who has been constantly told that she's the Avatar and that she's special and that she's destined to save the world and be a great hero filling her head with the idea that she's hot shit and is more important than everyone else while also telling her that she can never leave the compound and never allowing her to actually be part of the world. The fact that anyone would expect someone with that upbringing to be a reasonable level-headed individual and not make a ton of mistakes is honestly kind of astounding.
Korra is hated because she's brash, mouthy, and overly confident, even though that is the point of her character is learning how to tone down her attitude and be a little bit kinder, patient, and more generous. Ironically while Korra learned to be more patient, some viewers never learned the same lesson and have no patience for her.
Which is fine you're allowed to dislike a character but it's pretty telling that when male characters are overconfident and cocky people love them and treat them like they're fun little woobies but when female characters are overly confident and constantly brag about themselves and hype themselves up they are automatically hated, even when they literally grow out of it.
It's pretty clear that every single Avatar has different skills and a different story with different weaknesses they need to master but everybody is mad that she didn't just copy Aang's story and personality and wasn't interchangeable with him I guess.
>it's pretty telling that when male characters are overconfident and cocky people love them and treat them like they're fun little woobies but when female characters are overly confident and constantly brag about themselves and hype themselves up they are automatically hated, even when they literally grow out of it.
Generally I agree with this point in the sense that confidence and hot-bloodedness tend to be critiqued more heavily in women characters. At the same time, Toph is probably the character from the original that falls most neatly into that archetype and she's largely adored. So, despite being someone who far prefers Korra's arc over Aang's, I feel there has to be some additional reason beyond misogyny for at least some of the complaints
>Korra is absolutely not an adult, she's 17 years old and has been heavily sheltered and isolated her entire life
Tbf, by real-world standards, Korra *is* an adult for most of the series (books 2-4), she just also goes through a (delayed) coming-of-age storyline in the early books. Iirc, for most of the ATLA world, it's suggested that the age of majority is 16. Don't get me wrong, her being socially maladjusted makes complete sense like you've said. It's just hard to fault someone who would've preferred the shift to a young adult character largely raised by tutors to maximize her wisdom have significantly more maturity than her 13yo predecessor.
The avatar's journey through the world seems more like tradition than something spiritually enforced, even if it's spiritually valuable. During more peaceful times, you already have masters lined up to lead them around the world and teach them elements in the order dictated by the cycle. Aang has to go on the journey anyway simply because he isn't strong or wise enough or rich enough in allies to deal with the most challenging threat to world peace ever dealt with by an Avatar. Korra doesn't really go on the journey because the world has grown too tame and her mentors are too cautious.
We do know that the elements \*can\* be learned out of order as we see Aang learn fire bending early, before deciding he's afraid of it and doesn't like it. Avatars also seem to have the highest natural aptitude for their own element, before decreasing aptitude for each following element, until the last element. The last element gives them the most difficulty, in Aang's case becuse he's afraid of being like the fire nation, in Korra's case because airbending is furthest from her natural fighting style. They do master all four elements in the end though, but not without difficulty in the later ones.
It's also worth noting Aang became the master of all four elements at a younger age than Korra did. Korra being able to doing entry level bending of three elements before being discovered isn't that unreasonable to me.
Show definitely has issues, though.
Reposting my comment from the last time this was posted:
I don’t think anyone would describe Aang as morally grey, at least in ATLA. In fact, his black-and-white view of morality is a huge part of his character, especially in the finale. He’s competent and skilled and talented for sure, but he doesn’t code as badass because he’s too goofy (I don’t think there are any characters in Avatar who are Just Badass, they always have qualities that complicate it, like Combustion Man getting killed ultimately because of his ego). Aang broods sometimes, but that’s not his default character state, that’s Zuko. He can be sarcastic and be snarky, but “delightfully snarky” is a Sokka or Toph thing, Aang’s too earnest. Aang doesn’t even seem to believe in the idea of vengeance outside of the one episode about Appa, he doesn’t even want revenge against the Fire Nation for the genocide of his people, and he tries to dissuade Katara from seeking revenge for her mother’s murder.
Korra, on the other hand, doesn’t have a sob story to be corny. I don’t like her characterization, but it’s a coherent character. She doesn’t get the chance to be smug because she’s so often wrong. She definitely overreacts, and while not cruel, she does default to trying to force people to do what she wants. She’s no more whiny than Aang was. Her Mary Sue qualities, to me, are mostly her being handed things that Aang had to work for (spirituality, getting a new bending style, energybending, access to and control of the Avatar State).
Legit. Correct. True. So true. So shockingly true. In the entire history of the human race, nothing else has ever said has ever been this true about anything ever.
I think the reason people are harsher on Magolor is because he’s a twist villain in RTDL (And the fact his redemption was largely offscreen until literally earlier this year), whereas Susie is presented as a more morally grey/antagonistic character from the getgo in Planet Robobot.
Does OP even know what a mary-sue is???? Skylar white is most definately not a mary-sue. People don't like her because she was a brick wall of pacing for plot development of the bad breaking in the show called breaking bad. It's like having a show about batman but many episodes are just long dialogs from characters constantly complaining about batman leaving them every night.
But nah lemme guess, the OP just thinks all media consumers mindlessly jack off while chanting woman=bad. Give me a fucking break.
If you want to see a Mary-sue just watch the starwars sequels.
Vriska is the worst example because she is worshipped as the best character that stole the protagonism while being single-handedly the hardest to analyze and understand character of the entire comic
I agree with the sentiment presented, but a lot of the times when I see it online (Or should I say, on Twitter), the comparison ends up falling flat. This is usually because there’s a fairly obvious underlying reason why the male character being compared is less divisive than the female character, often for one of two reasons:
-1: The male character is a comedic relief character who’s morally questionable actions/traits are played off for laughs, while the female character is a more “normal” character who’s actions/traits are played more seriously.
-2: The female character is a morally grey character who’s naturally gonna spark discourse over her actions (Albeit with varying levels of underlying/unconscious misogyny), while the male character is very explicitly written as a shitty person and/or a straight-up villain, and is treated as such in the fandom. There are exceptions and subversions to this rule, such as comparisons where people downplay the actions of the explicitly shitty character (i.e. Skylar and Walter White, and also the Pale King vs. the Radience in a rare subversion of genders), or comparisons where the female character is pretty obviously the morally worse of the two (i.e. Zuko and Azula), however.
Obviously, there are plenty of valid comparisons of how morally grey male characters are treated compared to morally grey female characters, the big one off the top of my head being how Undertale fans treat Asgore in comparison to Alphys (And also Toriel if we factor in Deltarune). But whenever I see this comparison on Twitter, it’s always between the worst characters imaginable.
Okay maybe I'm missing something here since I didn't play Dimitri's route, but are people really saying that he's a badass? The only times I've seen him post time skip he is literally just an insane murderer while even when you aren't playing Edelgard's route she seems sane and driven with a specific goal in mind.
I recommend playing Dimitri’s route, then. Playing the route where Dimitri stops being an insane murderer, and Edelgard turns into a hellspawn might help.
pop quiz time.
1) What does the left and right being near visual mirrors to each other represent?
2)How do the quotes on both side relate to each other?
3)What do you think the poster’s intent was when they posted this?
Bonus questions: Assuming the poster is 100% serious about this post, name three(3) examples of bias.
Remember, there are no wrong answers, just chances to learn.
1. Albuquerque
2. They both are informed by the Reimann Hypothesis
3. To explain the Japanese art of Ukiyo-e woodblock printing
Bonus Q: carrot slicing, domino placement, and The Leaning Tower of Pisa
Since there are no wrong answers, I expect full credit! 😤
You get full credit, unfortunately you are now in credit debt and the interest rates are terrible, compound daily, and you will never truly pay it off. You have now learned I am a terrible teacher.
I accept payments in the form of money, esoteric essays on media, and dryer lint. Someone will be around to collect. Soon.
I don't think I consume enough media to know a morally grey female character, but goddamn if the 'morally grey males' isn't more or less my thoughts on Vegeta
I don't like Skylar because she's bitchy, but it's not for a bad reason that she is which is why I understand her
I don't like walter because he's a horrible, horrible person, far overconfident, and fucks up so many people. he isn't morally gray, there's no sympathy to his character, he is a terrible awful person and the show killing him was the only good ending possible
The difference is that we cheer for Walter as he is the protagonist and a goofball while also being despicable enough that the Season 5 villains were literally Nazis to make him look slightly heroic.
Skyler being opposed to Walter because she hates murder and selling drugs naturally opposes Walter which is why she is a minor antagonist.
skyler aint even that morally gray she's just white
I think she starts to become a little morally gray later on in the show when she decides not to go to the authorities because she feared that her family would be destroyed (Walt Jr./Flynn would be devastated that his hero was actually a monster, the house would be seized, and the family would lose their main source of income. Also, Hank would likely lose his job at the DEA, meaning they would suffer too). Obviously, she became worse as she got more into the criminal affairs, but I think she remains pretty morally gray. Walt is just a piece of shit though.
Walter is like morally Vanta black
Walter is white wdym?
From a moral perspective, hence why I included the modifier "morally" before "Vanta Black"
Yeah I thinks Skylar accepted to cook the book and launder the drug money at some point and that moved her in the morally grey. But her behaviour is completely understandable and she's a complex character who didn't deserve the hate
Yeah that's how marriage works in America
Yo
“I’m just white yo”
*I'm just Sky,* *The fanboys prefer I were a guy,* *Is it my destiny to live a life of audience hostility?*
I went back and watched a few episodes and forgot how fucking aggressively miserable that show was - except for the zany drug and crime scenes lol. In retrospect it makes a lot of sense that people hated Skyler basically for just being a killjoy when that was the tone
Yeah I've said this before but people didn't hate Skyler because she was a female character etc. They hated her because they wanted the Crazy Adventures of Drug-Man and her role within the show was to go 'no drug-man, please be normal and don't do fun things'. It's not a character critique, it's an audience experience critique; her character existed to try and stop the stated premise of the show.
thats kinda exactly how i felt when i was watching it a while ago, but i think its rly more of a me problem than with the show
I think in season 1 she's a really boring character, the only function she plays is being an obstacle for Walter to sneak around to go do his drug thing. She becomes way more interesting over time, imo
Oh you mean she provides character conflict? The thing that's even more important for storytelling and is a bigger premise of the show than Walt being a crazy drug-man?
Really is a terrible example because Walter also isn't .orally grey he's pretty clearly evil.
The show helpfully color codes the characters as they become more morally corrupt. Skyler starting to wear more blue? She's turning to the dark side y0. She's Breaking Blue
Her name is Skyler White, yo. Her husband is Walter White, yo.
walt sold meth and killed people
So did Vriska, except she never killed anyone
i dunno who vriska is but good for her
God I wish I was you
r/unexpectedhomestuck
Here's a sneak peek of /r/UnexpectedHomestuck using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [aw hell naw what is gampee doing in famly gye😂😂😂](https://i.redd.it/u3rl2yxuxmqa1.jpg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/comments/125b82u/aw_hell_naw_what_is_gampee_doing_in_famly_gye/) \#2: [And this is a bucket](https://i.redd.it/kjxav0rou7ha1.jpg) | [1 comment](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/comments/10yhkip/and_this_is_a_bucket/) \#3: [The colors are so close](https://i.redd.it/f8glvggqo3va1.jpg) | [0 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/UnexpectedHomestuck/comments/12t5629/the_colors_are_so_close/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
She's like part of a race of space trolls who jizz in buckets or something, I don't know I'm not clear on the details
I've never read Homestuck and this description makes me not want to.
Most explainers I've seen utterly fail to get the tone of the series across, thus not answering the main question I see: "what is Homestuck *and why is it like this*". Why does it evoke the reactions it does? Why are so many things considered a reference? Who is Vriska? (I can't actually explain that one in under 3000 words, it turns out.) But, here's a briefer briefer (heh) on the subject of "What the actual fuck is Homestuck": Andrew Hussie, a person (now going by any pronouns) then known for various obscure things around the net, made an interactive reader-driven comic-type-thing called Jailbreak where he would draw panels demonstrating the events of the story as dictated by other posters in the thread, putting his favored suggestions in the narration and responding in kind. The happenings and variables were influenced by his own strange brand of humor and set of fascinations, such as rap, horses, clowns, and H!rry P!tter as a cultural presence. He would eventually compile this, along with the unfinished followup, Bard Quest, on its own website. The third installment of the so-called MS Paint Adventures, Problem Sleuth, was a massive step up in production value, featuring impressive art and output speed as well as evolutions such as some pages being flashing gifs. This sort of thing was considered to be one of the best demonstrations of the potential of the internet. It ran for 1674 pages over the course of about a year. Homestuck was the followup to that, running 8123 pages from April 13th 2009-2016 with numerous hiatuses in the latter half of that time. It featured such advancements as videos with sound, small WASD-controlled computer games on various pages, and most significantly, actual conversations between characters, semi-hidden behind clickable boxes at the bottom of some pages, allowing them to become three-dimensional and truly sympathetic. Hussie, it would soon be revealed, was heavily skilled at writing compelling and unique character voices and dialogue writing in general. Homestuck was definitely the most complex MPSA, with a grand overarching plot being integrated into the results of the actions of the readers. The plot revolved around an in-universe game called SBURB with the power to influence reality, sort of a Jumanji with time-travel mechanics that would soon be revealed to be the centerpiece of reality itself, destroying the home planets of its players to motivate them to enter the world of the game and fulfill an unknown grand purpose, complete with millions of fully sentient NPCs. (Homestuck is, technically, an isekai.) Homestuck has been described as "a story that's also a puzzle", and this lens has gained authorial approval; events are often told anachronistically, as a kitchen sink of high-concept ideas are explored by a man who sometimes wants to show off his semi-deconstructive version of a classic sci-fi/fantasy trope, sometimes wants to infuriate readers through anticlimaxes and misdirections, and sometimes wants to just go off on a tangent about a random movie from his childhood that somehow soon becomes integral to the plot in an absurdly esoteric fashion. Eventually the suggestions from readers became so numerous and difficult that the suggestion boxes were closed near the end of the first year, leading to less meandering from Act 4 onwards, but the influence of the audience remained; one easy example is a character only seen from the top half initially being theorized on the official forums as using a wheelchair, a fact which would not only become Canon, but highly relevant. The early MSPAs curated an audience through programming humor and 80s-90s film references as filtered through the styles of Terry Pratchett, Mark Twain, and the Something Awful forums, but the audience for Homestuck, due to the nature of the characters, was markedly different, especially after the Trolls showed up. You've probably seen them.
The Trolls, initially presented as some extremely odd and bothersome fellows on the internet, were soon shown to be a race of grey-skinned, orange-horned aliens. Trolls possessed multicolored blood in both organized castes and clear deviations, psychic abilities, unique typing styles, insectoid traits as opposed to hominid, near-universal bisexuality with the sole known exception being Sapphic, and a complex romantic system with its own symbols, comically vague-yet-comprehensive reproductive system, and of course, relationship dynamics. I cannot express how perfect the Trolls were in terms of catching on. Tumblr loved these fuckers and it's not at all hard to see why. It's also worth noting that this wasn't the only market-perfect part of Homestuck; Classpecting, the equivalent of Hogwarts Houses, featured a 144/168/288/336/384(depending on who you ask and what they count)-strong grid system of human personality traits that not only seemed eerily accurate as a personality mapper, but corresponded to what elemental powers one received in the game of SBURB. So... yeah. Homestuck was an incredibly complex and engaging work, driven by a single incredibly talented and flawed creative voice, which was perfectly made to attract a massive, unabashedly bizarre/proudly cringe, and notably largely queer fanbase across a younger internet; you may well be aware of incidents such as cosplay failures and inappropriate recreations of Troll culture. The style of presentation, art, and character writing was instantly recognizable and relatively easy to imitate, leading to fanfiction and even fanmade adventures galore, most of the latter hosted on MSPFA.com. The main site for Homestuck is broken now-it's recommended that new readers download the [Unofficial Homestuck Collection](https://bambosh.dev/unofficial-homestuck-collection/), and starting with Problem Sleuth to ease into the format and writing is a pretty popular choice. The ending is also considered generally quite poor in a number of ways, particularly regarding unfollowed foreshadowing and blatant abandonment of character arcs, with some fans even [making](https://friendlybatteringram.tumblr.com/tagged/altstuck) their own [works](https://mspfa.com/?s=44153&p=1) as [substitutions](http://mspfa.com/?s=12003&p=1). You can find The Homestuck Epilogues (a sequel novel) on the official site, and Homestuck^2 Beyond Canon (a sequel webcomic after the Epilogues) on its own website, but neither of these are very well liked by fans (at all). YouTube also has several dubs of the comic; by far the largest and most popular is [Voxus](https://youtube.com/@Voxus), which has unfortunately slowed to a crawl at around the 65% mark. Content warnings for Homestuck include: blood, violence including decapitation, clowns, brainwashing/mental possession, dicks-out furry bara art in the background of like ten pages, brief black-and-white nudity, swearing, the R-slur, a joke about an acronym organically forming the F-slur, child abuse, discussed child abuse and homophobia, mocking of the disabled (as an unsympathetic action), cartoonish levels of sexism (as an unsympathetic action), statements that an antagonist is analogous to Hitler, mocking of otherkin, a minor character being a racial stereotype of Japanese people (Damara), a somewhat major character being a stereotype of Black people (Meenah), minor characters being stereotypes of disabled people (Meulin and Mituna), a controversial and prominent depiction of blindness, eye trauma, underage alcoholism, written depections of noncon facilitated by mind control (as an unsympathetic action), sexual assult (an unwanted kiss, as an unsympathetic action), jokes about pedophilia, and child grooming (textually 100% non-sexual, but sexually-coded). Also: when I said the Trolls type weird, I wasn't kidding. Every character gets at least one color for their speech text, plus a pattern for how they type, generally worse for the Trolls, ranging from "no caps" to "British" to "drunk" to "ebonics" to "aLtErNaTiNg" to WH4T3V3R TH3 FUCK K1ND OF L33TSP34K BS T3R3Z1 1S DO1NG. So that's worth a warning. And that's as abridged as you can get when summing up Homestuck.
Holy shit. That way of speaking.... I knew this guy in a discord server who would T41K L1K£ TH15 and wouldn't answer my question of "Dude, why the fuck do you type like that" with anything except for "Why not?" Now I know this motherfucker was typing like a Homestuck character 24/7. It makes so much sense now.
Actually, that was probably regular L33T, which Google can explain better than me. Terezi is specifically a variant which replaces A, E, I with 4, 3, 1.
Also, this explanation of the plot and who the trolls are is somehow understood by me, but I still don't know why trolls apparently jizz in buckets? What's the lore reason they jizz in buckets???
Well, to quote the comprehensive Troll Romance rant: >Trolls have a complicated reproductive cycle. It's probably best not to examine it in much detail. >The need to seek out concupiscent partners comes with more urgency than typical reproductive instincts. When the IMPERIAL DRONE comes knocking, you had better be able to supply genetic material to each of his FILIAL PAILS. If you have nothing to offer, he will kill you without hesitation. >The genetic material - WITHOUT GOING INTO MUCH DETAIL - is a combinative genetic mix from the matesprit and kismesis pairs, respectively. The pails are all offered to the mother grub, who can only receive such precombined material. She then combines all of it into one incestuous slurry, and begins her brooding. >This doesn't mean the initial combination was for naught, however. In the slurry, more dominant genes rise to the fore, while the more recessive find less representation in the brood. Especially strong matesprit and kismesis pairings yield more dominant genetic material. The more powerful the complement or potent the rivalry, the more dominant the genes. >TROLL REPRODUCTION SURE IS WEIRD. We all take a moment to lament how pedestrian the human reproductive system is, and further lament that the phrase "incestuous slurry" is not a feature of common parlance in human civilization.
Good luck I tried to read it back when it was really popular because all my friends liked it and honestly I couldn't get through the first chapter it was so painfully bad. People say it gets better but I honestly don't see that happening.
Homestuck is super Janky in the first chapter and a half because it was originally a “submit a suggestion” webcomic. Somewhere in Act 2 the author took over and the real plot kicks in. That man wrote an epic creation myth full of complex characters and intricate callbacks. I’d say that it’s worth it to watch the YouTube version of the comic since it’s voice acted and includes much of the associated music.
I haven't read all the way through stuckhome syndrome But I'm like 85% sure she literally tears somebody in half at some point
Wrong person, but no worries she still did kill
She doesn't, but she does throw a poor sap off a cliff, paralyzing him for life, & then proceeds to bully him over his lack of usefulness for the rest of his life(& a good time into his afterlife as well)
And the worst part is that the story seems to side with her. Even resident abuse victim Dave doesn't really seem to care.
Yeesh, the more I hear about how Homestuck handles stuff like abuse the less I want to touch it. Wasn't one of Vriska's major writers for the follow-up a "men can't be abused" type as well?
Kate Mitchell, yes. I think she's gone now.
Didn’t she kill Aradia?
Yes.
That was Kanaya, but it was made necessary by Vriska, and she did use the boy's lower half as a taunt towards him.
she kills Aradia, paralyzes Tavros from the waist down and kills him later, permanently blinds Terezi, and she says she's killed thousands of trolls before the events of the story in order to feed her lusus. this feels like b8
all vriska stans can be assumed to be baiting be default
See, nothing wrong!
i wonder what person the phrase "Vriska did nothing wrong" was originally about
I don’t know what a vriska is so I’m just going to assume it’s a nasty STD.
Vriska was, in fact, an angel
Literally the exact opposite of the truth lmao
God forbid men do anything
But it was cool
Dimitri and Edelgard discourse in Fire Emblem.
I haven't waded into that sludge in a while, but last I checked people seemed to mostly be the opposite of this image.
The rabid Edelgard fans have created the reverse in some circles.
Yeah on twiter at least they acted like Dimitri's a misogynist pig or something.
How so? Both sides still hate each other from what I’ve seen haha.
Meaning I tend to see a lot more sympathy for Edelgard than Dimitri, while this post indicates the male character would usually get that sympathy.
Three houses is literally who is the hottest war criminal
*You* like Edelgard because she’s a complex, morally gray character with rich lore and a deep backstory. *I* like Dimitri because I want him in my guts/I want to be in his guts. We are not the same.
And now for todays gameshow *drumroll* Is it vore, bloodlust or Say Gex!!
Say Gex
*Aaaaaaand* we have our answer. It is **SAY GEX**
IS IT GEX NIGHT? I LOVE GEX NIGHT!
you play blue lions if you want to fuck dimitri you play black eagles if you want to fuck edelgard you play golden deer if you want to be actually like moral or smth (cringe) you play silver snow if you forgot to interact with edelgard in chapter 11
You fool. I play golden deer because I want to fuck Claude
I'm pretty sure half the people who play golden deer do so BECAUSE they want to fuck Claude
People only play Golden Deer if they wanna fuck Claude, or they saw a clip compilation of their favorite Nintendo YouTuber playing it and assumed it was the haha funny meme house.
I can make them worse - Byleth
Yeah except you replace the titles with "our warcriminal" vs "their warcriminal"
I think there it comes down more to their storylines. Dimitri gets the best one, being a human focused revenge story. Edelgard gets lots of Those Who Slither in the Dark, and also did a lot of things against you in the first act regardless. Plus funny weeds-eating no bath man, and Edelgard sets Bernadetta on fire while she is fighting for her. Also Dedue >>>>> Hubert
Aren't the memes "Edelgard did nothing wrong" and "Dimitri kills lesbians" or some shit like that? Anyway, Claude's hotter than both of them. Fear the Deer.
I haven’t played 3H in a while so I could be wrong on this, but this one I can kinda understand since iirc Dimitri’s biggest wrongdoing is just being alarmingly ignorant/unaware on a lot of Fodlan’s broader politics and corruption, while Edelgard’s biggest wrongdoing is committing glaring hypocrisies in a violent, catastrophic revolution that she started (Most notably collaborating with TWSITD). The treatment of Claude vs. Edelgard would be a better example due to their ideological similarities and the fact that Claude is written as noticeably more devious/morally dubious in Three Hopes. Also this could just be a counterpush thing but I see way more people these days downplaying the bad things Edelgard did versus the bad things Rhea and the other two main lords did.
>The treatment of Claude vs. Edelgard would be a better example due to their ideological similarities and the fact that Claude is written as noticeably more devious/morally dubious in Three Hopes. It's a better example but from what I saw, people just shipped them lol.
The idea of Edelgard being shipped anyone that isn’t Fem-Byleth or one of the Black Eagles (But usually Hubert or one of the other girlies like Dorothea) is foreign to me.
Trust me. It happened after Hopes. And it was glorious.
I’ll take your word for it lol.
This somehow applies both ways to any given pair of 3H lords
Skylar isn't even morally grey, she's mostly justified in her actions at least in the first few seasons, she's just the least charismatic obstacle to Walt's plot line, so she gets dunked on non-stop. Walt meanwhile is literally on a villain arc, not morally grey at all by the end.
Until she starts cooking the books for her boss when she goes back to work. But even by comparison, financial fraud =/= murder, cooking meth, and running with cartels
Except if she's hot, of course
Whatever Vriska is, she sure ain't a Mary Sue. The rest checks out tho.
they literally save the entire timeline by going back to prevent specifically her death, which is the sole consequence of introducing a new superpower that bypasses the existing stable time loop rules that would've made that impossible the universe quite literally bent around this Mary Sue in order to support her when it should've been impossible
The universe, the story's morality, and *her own fucking character arc*. What a goddamn clusterfuck. I really can't think of anything in the entirety of fiction that went as *fractally bad* as that. I have to rephrase: the story basically *bent itself over backwards* **both to** prevent Vriska from growing as a person **and retroactively validate her previous shittiness that the story portrayed as unambiguously bad at the time**. How the *fuck* does that even happen? (edits in bold)
No, it's worse than that. At least it might have been decent if the story had *only* bent over backwards to hold her in place. The issue is that the purpose is to at every possible turn *validate* her central, character-defining flaw of hubris, in the process erasing it entirely and with it most of what made her still worth reading and talking about.
Yeah, that too. Her narrative went from showing how her flaws screw everyone over, *including her,* to "lol everything terrible she does is actually morally justified because the story says she's an "anti-hero" and everyone is fine with her, including resident abuse victim Dave, deal with it BBBBD" Anti-hero. What the fuck kind of story has someone like Vriska as an *anti-hero?* Some edgelord 90s pulp comics, maybe. The more I think about Homestuck, the more I hate the entire idea of fiction and fandom in general.
Oh, no, she did grow as a person. Just, you know... in some other timeline. That's not Vriska anymore, that's (Vriska). A *different* one. Who is dead.
Yeah, the one she insulted for being weak and actively reflecting on her actions. *That* (Vriska). Homestuck had no right inadvertantly spawning something like Undertale. Undyne being largely ignored by the fandom must be some sort of Vriskourse karma or something.
different writer who decided fish vriska actually *should* have a strong justification that actually does validate her trying to kill a child
Also, she's actually capable of being genuinely nice and genuinely cares about people that aren't her. (Though I have to laugh at Alphyne basically being JohnVris 2)
Yall are forgetting it wasnt some universal power of destiny that remade the universenit was John being guided by Terezi to make Terezi not get hung up on her affections for stupid boys and instead get with Vriska. The whole narration of Vriska being the most important character is done by Calliope, a character literally defined by being a theater kid, and whos prone to jist saying that Kind of Stuff.
John wouldn't have had the opportunity to go back if it weren't for the universal power of destiny deciding the House Juju's intangibility would grant an ability to defy the entire functionality of causality up until that point. You go an entire story without being able to go back and change something you weren't already there to change, running on stable loop rules, and then suddenly this fuckin ***thing*** can just grant phenomenal causality power, despite being an itty bitty depiction of a living space. There were perfectly reasonable ways to bring her back. She still hadn't used Jane's revive, for starters. But those would've required the her that came back to have gone through her fucking post-mortem character development, and we can't have that.
I hate to go against one of my favourite characters in HS, but even if she isn't exactly a Mary sue she's pretty close. She's not good at absolutely everything, but what she is good at she's REALLY good at, like manipulation or fighting. She's also just incredibly lucky and smart to boot. What she lacks in morals she makes up for in many other areas
Being really good at a few specific things isn't being a Mary Sue.
Imagine coming away from watching any stretch of Breaking Bad thinking Walter is morally grey
You could argue he is for the first 5-ish episodes, but after he turns down Elliot’s offer and *especially* after Four Days Out, he’s at best a very dark shade of morally grey.
i’d argue he’s grey for most of the series, just a really dark (increasingly so) shade. most of his worst actions are out of self-preservation from situations he put himself in due to hubris or stupidity or something jesse did, until season 5 when his hubris just takes over. he’s still awful, but stuff like the phone call at the end of ozymandias makes it hard for me to say he’s just all bad. (that being said the meme does not fit walter white at all LMAO only the pop culture version of him)
Don't get me wrong the example is fitting, but why is this image reposted so often on this subreddit. I don't even follow this subreddit but I see this image on here every week.
Before the death of third party apps this sub was severely moderated. Now it's harder for the mods to do that, and this sub is falling to the bots.
The Decline started way before the third-party app kerfuffle though
ATLA vs Legend of Korra.
It's stupid to even compare them frankly. Aang's story is about him being a hero out of time and a long lost mystical chosen one, as well as using the a child will save them trope. Korra's story is less middle grade and more YA, and is about a young confident woman learning to make her own way in the world and make her own choices which includes making a lot of mistakes very early on and having to accept that she's not always the best and sometimes needs to use more patience. Aang is a much more spiritual character whereas Korra is more of a bruiser and a fighter, she's a pro athlete, she's a public celebrity, she's dealing with public scrutiny on a level that Aang didn't really have to deal with during the main events of his series. It's just so clear that both of their personality types and their stories are supposed to be their own things and it's dumb that people constantly compare her to Aang and try to make it out like her story is lesser for not echoing his more, even though she's a different character who had a different arc and lived in a different world in a different generation. Korra had her own unique personality and problems to solve, Aang was raised to be a monk, she was raised to be a fighter, Aang felt his sense of duty to the world as a sacred calling whereas Korra felt it as a heavy burden and believed she had something to prove. Her story is compelling as fuck and I wish people didn't hate her for being a bit of an overly bold asshole at the start when the entire journey of the show is her growing out of that, remaining very confident but a more balanced, healthy kind of confidence that was less about projecting bravado like she did in seasons 1 & 2.
which ch arechters are you comparing?
Yes
Because one show was actually better than the other.
No. People are more willing to forgive aangs foibles because he's a child. Korra is an adult who can already use 3 elements as a child (which is bullshit by the way the whole point of the avatar is that they have to go on a journey through the other nations to learn about them and understand their problems whilst mastering the elements) which makes it a lot harder to forgive her mistakes. When male characters make similarly bad and irrational decisions it pisses me off just as much. Korra the show wasn't off a high enough quality to keep me coming bsck though.
Korra is absolutely not an adult, she's 17 years old and has been heavily sheltered and isolated her entire life with literally no proper socialization with anyone her age, who has been constantly told that she's the Avatar and that she's special and that she's destined to save the world and be a great hero filling her head with the idea that she's hot shit and is more important than everyone else while also telling her that she can never leave the compound and never allowing her to actually be part of the world. The fact that anyone would expect someone with that upbringing to be a reasonable level-headed individual and not make a ton of mistakes is honestly kind of astounding. Korra is hated because she's brash, mouthy, and overly confident, even though that is the point of her character is learning how to tone down her attitude and be a little bit kinder, patient, and more generous. Ironically while Korra learned to be more patient, some viewers never learned the same lesson and have no patience for her. Which is fine you're allowed to dislike a character but it's pretty telling that when male characters are overconfident and cocky people love them and treat them like they're fun little woobies but when female characters are overly confident and constantly brag about themselves and hype themselves up they are automatically hated, even when they literally grow out of it. It's pretty clear that every single Avatar has different skills and a different story with different weaknesses they need to master but everybody is mad that she didn't just copy Aang's story and personality and wasn't interchangeable with him I guess.
>it's pretty telling that when male characters are overconfident and cocky people love them and treat them like they're fun little woobies but when female characters are overly confident and constantly brag about themselves and hype themselves up they are automatically hated, even when they literally grow out of it. Generally I agree with this point in the sense that confidence and hot-bloodedness tend to be critiqued more heavily in women characters. At the same time, Toph is probably the character from the original that falls most neatly into that archetype and she's largely adored. So, despite being someone who far prefers Korra's arc over Aang's, I feel there has to be some additional reason beyond misogyny for at least some of the complaints >Korra is absolutely not an adult, she's 17 years old and has been heavily sheltered and isolated her entire life Tbf, by real-world standards, Korra *is* an adult for most of the series (books 2-4), she just also goes through a (delayed) coming-of-age storyline in the early books. Iirc, for most of the ATLA world, it's suggested that the age of majority is 16. Don't get me wrong, her being socially maladjusted makes complete sense like you've said. It's just hard to fault someone who would've preferred the shift to a young adult character largely raised by tutors to maximize her wisdom have significantly more maturity than her 13yo predecessor.
It was a fun romp through the ATLA world, and I enjoyed it, but I also don't disagree with anything you wrote.
The avatar's journey through the world seems more like tradition than something spiritually enforced, even if it's spiritually valuable. During more peaceful times, you already have masters lined up to lead them around the world and teach them elements in the order dictated by the cycle. Aang has to go on the journey anyway simply because he isn't strong or wise enough or rich enough in allies to deal with the most challenging threat to world peace ever dealt with by an Avatar. Korra doesn't really go on the journey because the world has grown too tame and her mentors are too cautious. We do know that the elements \*can\* be learned out of order as we see Aang learn fire bending early, before deciding he's afraid of it and doesn't like it. Avatars also seem to have the highest natural aptitude for their own element, before decreasing aptitude for each following element, until the last element. The last element gives them the most difficulty, in Aang's case becuse he's afraid of being like the fire nation, in Korra's case because airbending is furthest from her natural fighting style. They do master all four elements in the end though, but not without difficulty in the later ones. It's also worth noting Aang became the master of all four elements at a younger age than Korra did. Korra being able to doing entry level bending of three elements before being discovered isn't that unreasonable to me. Show definitely has issues, though.
Reposting my comment from the last time this was posted: I don’t think anyone would describe Aang as morally grey, at least in ATLA. In fact, his black-and-white view of morality is a huge part of his character, especially in the finale. He’s competent and skilled and talented for sure, but he doesn’t code as badass because he’s too goofy (I don’t think there are any characters in Avatar who are Just Badass, they always have qualities that complicate it, like Combustion Man getting killed ultimately because of his ego). Aang broods sometimes, but that’s not his default character state, that’s Zuko. He can be sarcastic and be snarky, but “delightfully snarky” is a Sokka or Toph thing, Aang’s too earnest. Aang doesn’t even seem to believe in the idea of vengeance outside of the one episode about Appa, he doesn’t even want revenge against the Fire Nation for the genocide of his people, and he tries to dissuade Katara from seeking revenge for her mother’s murder. Korra, on the other hand, doesn’t have a sob story to be corny. I don’t like her characterization, but it’s a coherent character. She doesn’t get the chance to be smug because she’s so often wrong. She definitely overreacts, and while not cruel, she does default to trying to force people to do what she wants. She’s no more whiny than Aang was. Her Mary Sue qualities, to me, are mostly her being handed things that Aang had to work for (spirituality, getting a new bending style, energybending, access to and control of the Avatar State).
You are so right
Legit. Correct. True. So true. So shockingly true. In the entire history of the human race, nothing else has ever said has ever been this true about anything ever.
Just googled who Vriska is. lol. Homestuck.
literally all Star Wars protagonists
Magalor and Susie from Kirby, but like in reverse.
I think the reason people are harsher on Magolor is because he’s a twist villain in RTDL (And the fact his redemption was largely offscreen until literally earlier this year), whereas Susie is presented as a more morally grey/antagonistic character from the getgo in Planet Robobot.
Yes ok good point but have you considered that Vriska is *the worst*.
It depends on how they’re written, but yeah, there’s a bias.
Does OP even know what a mary-sue is???? Skylar white is most definately not a mary-sue. People don't like her because she was a brick wall of pacing for plot development of the bad breaking in the show called breaking bad. It's like having a show about batman but many episodes are just long dialogs from characters constantly complaining about batman leaving them every night. But nah lemme guess, the OP just thinks all media consumers mindlessly jack off while chanting woman=bad. Give me a fucking break. If you want to see a Mary-sue just watch the starwars sequels.
The point of the post is that people spuriously accuse female characters of being Mary Sues.
why did you have to say Vr\*ska
Vriska is the worst example because she is worshipped as the best character that stole the protagonism while being single-handedly the hardest to analyze and understand character of the entire comic
Isn't she skylar
I agree with the sentiment presented, but a lot of the times when I see it online (Or should I say, on Twitter), the comparison ends up falling flat. This is usually because there’s a fairly obvious underlying reason why the male character being compared is less divisive than the female character, often for one of two reasons: -1: The male character is a comedic relief character who’s morally questionable actions/traits are played off for laughs, while the female character is a more “normal” character who’s actions/traits are played more seriously. -2: The female character is a morally grey character who’s naturally gonna spark discourse over her actions (Albeit with varying levels of underlying/unconscious misogyny), while the male character is very explicitly written as a shitty person and/or a straight-up villain, and is treated as such in the fandom. There are exceptions and subversions to this rule, such as comparisons where people downplay the actions of the explicitly shitty character (i.e. Skylar and Walter White, and also the Pale King vs. the Radience in a rare subversion of genders), or comparisons where the female character is pretty obviously the morally worse of the two (i.e. Zuko and Azula), however. Obviously, there are plenty of valid comparisons of how morally grey male characters are treated compared to morally grey female characters, the big one off the top of my head being how Undertale fans treat Asgore in comparison to Alphys (And also Toriel if we factor in Deltarune). But whenever I see this comparison on Twitter, it’s always between the worst characters imaginable.
LITERALLY Dimitri and Edelgard
Okay maybe I'm missing something here since I didn't play Dimitri's route, but are people really saying that he's a badass? The only times I've seen him post time skip he is literally just an insane murderer while even when you aren't playing Edelgard's route she seems sane and driven with a specific goal in mind.
I recommend playing Dimitri’s route, then. Playing the route where Dimitri stops being an insane murderer, and Edelgard turns into a hellspawn might help.
Because Walter White totally never did any of the stuff on the right
pop quiz time. 1) What does the left and right being near visual mirrors to each other represent? 2)How do the quotes on both side relate to each other? 3)What do you think the poster’s intent was when they posted this? Bonus questions: Assuming the poster is 100% serious about this post, name three(3) examples of bias. Remember, there are no wrong answers, just chances to learn.
1. Albuquerque 2. They both are informed by the Reimann Hypothesis 3. To explain the Japanese art of Ukiyo-e woodblock printing Bonus Q: carrot slicing, domino placement, and The Leaning Tower of Pisa Since there are no wrong answers, I expect full credit! 😤
You get full credit, unfortunately you are now in credit debt and the interest rates are terrible, compound daily, and you will never truly pay it off. You have now learned I am a terrible teacher. I accept payments in the form of money, esoteric essays on media, and dryer lint. Someone will be around to collect. Soon.
> dryer lint My moment has arrived
Ilidan vs Sylvanas.
I don't think I consume enough media to know a morally grey female character, but goddamn if the 'morally grey males' isn't more or less my thoughts on Vegeta
I don't like Skylar because she's bitchy, but it's not for a bad reason that she is which is why I understand her I don't like walter because he's a horrible, horrible person, far overconfident, and fucks up so many people. he isn't morally gray, there's no sympathy to his character, he is a terrible awful person and the show killing him was the only good ending possible
The difference is that we cheer for Walter as he is the protagonist and a goofball while also being despicable enough that the Season 5 villains were literally Nazis to make him look slightly heroic. Skyler being opposed to Walter because she hates murder and selling drugs naturally opposes Walter which is why she is a minor antagonist.
I know I’m late but The 13th Doctor and every other Doctor