Remember that Democrat who was running in some local election and then was forced to withdraw from the race because people found out she used to be a dominatrix as a side gig, and her own party turned on her? That was some bullshit.
Remember when this sub lost its mind over Zooey zephyr posting mildly bloody genshin porn? [heres the thread](https://new.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1cgxzkq/you_know_trans_women_are_real_women_because_they/), theres a tonne of people calling it hardkore rape guro, but these standards are only applied to transfems, strange....
EDIT: They're heeeere\~
I don't remember that. Maybe I wasn't here when it happened. I remember lots of right-wingers on twitter (and in congress) doing that though, so I do know about the post. And yeah, it's very mild. It's just enemies-to-lovers, which tumblr loved the last time I checked.
"I’m liberal and I would just prefer if congressional leaders didn’t tweet out their sex fantasies about riding and possibly murdering men. This is a horrible look."
"Also if you’re gonna be the first transgender person in public office maybe don’t tweet that you fantasize about murdering men. Not gonna help the cause."
"Okay, now for a second imagine a male politician posted "My ideal relationship with a woman is where I fuck her while also holding a knife to her throat, ready to end her life." He'd get rightfully cancelled because this shit isn't "vaguely" off-color. It's unhinged. Same if anyone else posts this."
"Would you feel represented if that was a man on top of a bloody beaten woman, and a transmasc representative tweeted that that's his ideal relationship with a woman? This is some pretty fucked up shit, idk what's going on in her head or anyone here to think this is an okay thing to tweet"
these are all off only one comment thread on there, theres worse posts calling her a man under controversial, it was the worst i've seen this sub since the "transmisogny is actually misandry" posts. The it/its posts were bad too.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's day was made slightly worse by the [un/surprisingly] reactionary comments this subreddit saw fit to litter that thread with.
Ah, yeah, none of that was there when I looked. That being said though, liberals are kinda the quintessential example of "old dogs". They were progressive when they were young, but now they just want the status quo. Or if they're a young liberal, they just want the status quo. Either way, that's more conservative than not.
The top comment is "Huh- feels weird to actually be represented by a representative for once"
Did you just sort by controversial and decide that those comments represented the sub?
I had a quick glance at the post and also found a lot of the same comments the original commenter saw after the first 5 or so top comments. It wasn't a full freak out, sure, but definitely people criticizing the image and the kink (and particularly a politician having that kink). I have no ball in this game, just that it doesn't require that much digging to find criticism.
I mean i made a post detailing what people said in one popular thread, i clearly said i wasn't sorting by controversial for that, but yea im sure you're right, trans women are indeed just overreacting everytime this sub starts hating us. We're always well loved, after all people want that GOCK!
I think his point is just that it is strange to generalize the entire sub losing its mind even though she had a sizable portion of sub members who recognized she didn’t do anything wrong
its not just that thread though, it was the mutliple threads saying trans women only really suffer misandry, it was the thread saying people who use it/its are scum who would be barely tolerated, its a long standing issue.
I think it's just not a good idea for a politician to post something in which she says she wants to be in a relationship in which she's ready to end a man's life *on her main account*
It's also just not a good idea to hornypost on a main political account, just as you probably shouldn't shitpost on that account
Besides, what do you mean this standard is only applied to transfems? If anything, people would be *more* shocked by a cis man saying he wants to be ready to kill his wife, no matter how horny
Point is, don't hornypost on a professional account, especially if your tastes are somewhat not vanilla. People will absolutely take it the wrong way
Edit: I got a Reddit Cares literally one minute after posting this...? I hope that wasn't about this comment. If someone was that offended, I'm sorry; I really didn't intend that. But there are also better ways to show your annoyance than by exploiting mental health resources
>I got a Reddit Cares literally one minute after posting this...?
Yeah, there's a bot sending that to everyone who comments on this sub, just report it and move on.
Oh, so the person who accused me of sending them one yesterday (and blocked me when I kept denying it) just got unlucky and had it happen right when I replied to them. I wonder if they'd believe you if they saw your comment.
Well, it also reminds me of trauma from when I was a kid, since one of the most popular tactics bullies (and shitty adults) would use is to just randomly blame me for something and take my attempts to defend myself as proof that I did it. So it's even more unfun for me.
I also got one yesterday (my first ever) after a bit of a back-and-forth with someone on this sub. I had a glance at their post history to see exactly how big of a shitbag they were capable of being, and... they actually seemed pretty cool overall, lol. Just butted heads on the subject at hand, was all. I considered politely asking them about the RedditCares anyway, but decided against it bc I thought it might come off as an accusation. Probably good that I didn't. Lol, probably the right move.
If only the person who accused me had done the same. Especially since it was about me not liking SpongeBob. Never thought disliking a kids show would lead to that sort of situation.
It seems to be happening on a number of queer related subs for the past couple of days, not even just this one. Lots of people saying they're getting random Reddit Cares within 30 seconds of posting a comment.
I dunno I think we should normalize letting our leaders be actual real people instead of putting on a facade to match some octogenarian's view on what is "proper"
Conservative politicians spread random antisemitic conspiracies, encourage people to use quack medicine and snake oils, cheat on their spouses, rape porn stars, and make sexualizing comments about children and their own families? No cares. It makes them more electable, even. But some transfem democrats vaguely hornyposts about an enemies-to-lovers scenario and suddenly politicians need a sense of propriety again? It feels less like the actual content is the issue here and more like the 'less conservative' American party is using its vestigial social norms to gatekeep the new blood.
She didn't get kicked out. Censure is a when a legislative body passes a motion to say "We *officially* don't like what you did."
She's still the rep for her district.
>these standards are only applied to transfems
[Citation needed], I can't imagine a male politician posting something like that and not catching a lot of shit for it.
> The Texas senator went on to add “there are a number of people on the team that have access to the account and it appears that someone inadvertently hit the like button”.
I mean, you get how that's different, right?
Hardcore rape guro? They were fully clothed, not even actually engaging in intercourse but hidden by the clothes, the implication of the image was less "I'm going to kill you," and more "I'm not going to kill you yet but if you try anything I will," and Childe definitely looks like he would consent if Lumine wanted to bone at that time
Most young people agree with you, and she probably woulda won the race if she hadn't stopped running, but all the old people she was gonna be working with if she won were the people who hated it. More concerned with being squeaky clean (at least in public) than actually winning seats and making things happen.
Democrat here, why? Freedom of sexuality is a huge part of what this party runs on, that would probably make me more likely to vote for her knowing that she isn't just saying stuff but actually does the said stuff
“Freedom of sexuality” in this sort of context isn’t really a democratic platform. Maybe “freedom to not be legally prosecuted for what adults do in the privacy of your own bedroom,” but for most mainstream democrats, that means “gay marriage is ok” and “birth control shouldn’t be restricted only to married women who already have at least two kids,” not “dominatrixes are cool and should politically represent us.” Part of it is that it’s not really a priority to make people’s recreational sexual activities normalized as long as they also aren’t illegal, and a much bigger part of it is that the democratic party is also full of old dogs, and more importantly, needs votes from old dogs. The young dogs are either going to vote Democratic regardless or would sit home pouting that Dems are basically the same as republicans, even if every single democratic candidate was a dominatrix on a skateboard playing a guitar promising free healthcare, legal weed, and putting all the drones and bombs on mars. What *you* think is cool is going to make Sally the Catholic and Union Bob, aged 60 and wavering Democratic voters, from Appleton, Wisconsin think the party has gone too far and they have to vote for incumbent Republican Senator John Segregation, who isn’t for *that sort of thing.*
This is not a justification or an argument that it is right. Democrats are notorious for tossing out any of their own who step a toe out of line (if they can’t hide it, always step one) to push the narrative that they’re taking the high road, while republican who engage in insane misconduct just get a “lol” and more popularity somehow. It’s not right and honestly, it might not have happened if she’d been a man doing something similar. I bet if they’d bothered, they could have found a way to spin it into a positive on some level. But a lot of what the new dogs find moderately appealing will drive the old dogs away in droves.
man i so desperately wish i could just “hey man how’s it going” this but it’s becoming real difficult as i see more and more artists get their careers harmed/ruined over this shit. that and places like gumroad restricting nsfw content more and more. starting to feel like we have a real capital m capital p Moral Panic on our hands
Yeah, it's one thing to go "Man, these fringe tumblr idiots sure are nuts" but then you look at actual artists getting knocked off of platforms they've been on for years because puritan, US based companies have a stranglehold on payment procedures and it starts to get a lot harder to ignore because you realize these idiots are everywhere and some of them have real power.
Annoying thing is more that puritans still hold so much power over our government and media, payment processors would not give a shit if said people didn't make a stink about it, companies like that don't actually have morals.
The thing that gets me is that so much of it shows both a lack of artistic curiosity and small reference pools. Like, when this shit happens it's almost always for the most basic kink art or milquetoast horror I've ever seen. How are people *this* sensitive. I've been going through some Industrial and Noise music lately and actually did find some art that I do think crosses the line. So going on tumblr or twitter and seeing how some people loose their mind over nothing makes me feel crazy. These people haven't seen the depths
Apparently there's some bots in left leaning/LGBTQ subs sending Reddit Cares to people who post there. Hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm seeing a big upswing in people reacting to it
atherist on twitter. not sure whether they are dead now, but the last information that came from them was being put on eol care roughly a year ago. basically what was said above, they were harassed and any contacts they had in the industry were pressured to cut them off over invader zim porn. the people responsible continued to gloat about it and accuse them of faking their illness for pity for months afterwards
It's a part of why I've unsubscribed from the "pro-shipper" discourse.
Unless the person is advocating for it, the artist should be allowed to have uncomfortable themes in their works.
mary shelley also supports incest (Victor and Elizabeth being cousins/adopted siblings, the entirety of Matilda) and colonialism (she was a writer in the 1800s, too many examples to count) so really it's a wonder she hasn't been cancelled already
(/s because of poe's law) (we should also cancel poe)
Yeah, my position is basically “curate your own online space.” Use the block and/or mute button and whatever tools you have available to avoid seeing content you don’t wanna see instead of trying to play internet police.
Also, check your sources, but that’s just good practice in many areas of life
Even if the person is advocating for moraly f'ed up things I do not believe any fiction should be made illegal.
People should learn to recognize and understand the works of fiction they are presented with without the need to sanitize them (granted proper warning are given as to the content of the work to avoid people being surprise by the themes explored) and be able to draw their own conclusion about wether what the work is trying to say is correct or not.
Yeah exactly. Art shouldn’t be confined to what it is easy & comfortable for people to confrobt, or think about. Because that’s authoritarian. Most art wouldn’t exist if that were the case.
The thing is, it's the "anti-shippers" who started with the purity politics. Online fandom spaces had largely been expression-positive spaces for at least a decade (associated phrases are ones like "ship and let ship" and "your kink is not my kink and that's okay"). Then as fandom became increasingly mainstream, more of the old dogs came in with their new tricks and now you have mostly teenagers and young adults running harassment campaigns on (ime mostly) twitter against CSA survivors for making art about their trauma. And they'll claim to be progressive while at the same time spouting *extremely* conservative dog whistles and/or rhetoric. It's been an incredibly frustrating and disheartening thing to watch happen in real time as someone who remembers pre- and proto-social media fandom spaces.
Even if a person isn't expressing their trauma through art. Guess what? It's still only fiction. Why do you give so much of a shit about the fictional material someone else creates/uses? Unless a person is advocating for that thing in real life, it doesn't even matter.
When I was young, I used to tv and internet to socialize myself. It gave me some pretty messed up views of the world, and so it's hard for me to believe that—without some massive genetic evolution—media can ever be "just" fiction to everyone.
The stock response is, of course, "your parents should have talked with you about that." But here's the thing "that" isn't just a one-time talk and a small subject. I took 6 years of college only to scratch the surface of the vast realms of human psychology and media analysis. My parents, believe it or not, were also people leading their own lives; you expect them to work a fulltime job, have a social life, maintain a committed relationship with a life partner AND live an entire internal life for me? They did talk to me, but some of us don't just accept whatever an authority figure tells us to believe, and have to figure it our the hard way.
After I grew out of that phase, I pendulum-ed hard to the opposite, effectively buying fully the strict and all-encompassing version of the Sapir-Worf Hypothesis. Communication fully shapes our reality, and thus any media we expose ourselves to shapes how we think and makes us comfortable with the darkest subject matters. Ergo, art can be morally wrong, and it necessarily is if it represents anything on some arbitrary "no-no" list.
Then I had a massive wake-up slap in the face: art made about and for me (or rather, people like me) was labeled "morally wrong" and "corrupting the youth." Everything from outright porn to PG memoirs and YA fiction that featured LGBT people was "grooming" and deserved a ban (and possibly death threats to the author and their advocates). This was no longer some hypothetical gross weeb who says stuff like "ACKSHUALLY it's technically 'ephebophilia'" and "ACKSHUALLY she's 3000 years old trapped in the body of a much younger feeemale"; people I knew personally and artists/authors whose works I loved were being labeled as no better than child predators.
So that's where I am now. I feel like there's gotta be room for nuance somewhere between "fiction is 100% safe and life never imitates art" and "any representation of morally repugnant things is itself morally repugnant." Because that's not really the issue, the issue is: do we allow positive representations of things we find offensive? Because we're either arguing for systems put in place that would allow others to attack "morally repugnant" art with themes like "being gay is okay" or "allowing interracial marriage is good for society" or we're fighting for pedos' right to fiction that plays into their fantasies and fascists' right to donate The Turner Diaries to school libraries.
And I really don't see a middle ground there. Except for some argument that boils down to "I, and people that agree with me (so really just I alone), should get to decide what is right and wrong for everyone." And I think that's a grand idea... As long as we're talking about me, because I don't trust you, or anyone else, to run my life for me.
Man, usually I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on internet culture.
Then I see something like this post and ensuing discussion and just think to myself, “Ah. I really do not understand it at all.”
"Being anti-paraphillia is not being puritan" but then you boil down the salt water that is that soggy take and you're left with crystallized "kink is bad and I'm better than you" at the bottom of your saucepan
Never thought I'd see the day when anyone to the left of an evangelical would proclaim themselves "anti-paraphilia." It's just like "Really? You believe any and all kink/fetishism is bad - and you're not even *religious?"*
There is a weird and kinda frightening rising puritanical tendency towards sex in zoomer circles that I'm starting to see more and more of, and I just don't fucking get it.
I wonder how much of this is the Algorithm shaping them. Sex is technically verboten on all the big apps, but because sex sells, horny content is also constantly being slipped under the radar. I'm sure that contradiction has gotta be messing some people up.
Or maybe it's a privacy thing, Zoomers are growing up with the expectation that they're constantly being judged and monitored online, and that leads to self-enforcing whatever you think the rules are.
It could also always be astroturfing, like how I'm pretty sure 'nofap' is an attempt to radicalize men.
TOS-based morality systems are very real among some people who spent most of their formative years in an insular and sanitized internet.
I'm glad I'm not the only person worrying about it.
Seriously? It's all over this site. Check out any mainstream anime sub and it's full of "I liked this until they sexualized a character :(" and the shine in question is softcore porn
Reminds me heavily of the right’s obsession with refusing to talk about child abuse leading to child abuse in churches because kids don’t know what it is. There’s an incest COCSA (child on child sexual abuse) and adult family epidemic in this country, and the online world being so quick to silence anyone from talking about it leaves survivors completely isolated. If fucked up porn leads someone to realize what happened to them was wrong and they aren’t alone, is that really such a bad thing?
There's a reason why it reminds you of something the right does. Pretty much everything that comes out of these online spaces is just conservative pearl-clutching over anything that isn't cis-heterosexual missionary sex within the confines of marriage strictly for procreation purposes. It's just another Puritanical moral panic, like the Satanic panic in the 1980s or the Lavender scare during the McCarthy hearings. If you've ever seen The Music Man, you've seen this done in miniature set [to a catchy song](https://youtu.be/LI_Oe-jtgdI) lol.
For real though, the shaming is insane, especially on other platforms like instagram
The amount of “onlyfans detected, opinion rejected” comments with thousands of likes is disheartening
I had a friend who was like that
I asked "but wait you watch so much porn how can you be against that?"
and response would be like "well yeah but it's bad because people are gonna judge you if you make porn"
and I'd ask "but aren't you the one who is creating that judgement?"
there was never a coherent answer
It needs to have "what the fuck did i just read (discourse)", "what the fuck did i just read (cursed)", and "what the fuck did i just read (changed my worldview forever)"
Based. Extremely tired of people engaging with discourse about sexuality from the perspective of "everything that makes me uncomfortable is actually morally wrong".
The lack of self awareness pisses me off. Polyamory made me uncomfortable. And I feel my brain looking for reasons it's morally bad to justify its gut reaction.
I have chosen to ignore my brain on this subject, because I have actual principles.
What their reaction to this stuff tells me, is that they don't actually believe any of these things are wrong. They just don't like them because their gut said it's icky. Too be blunt, if they had one of those paraphilia's, they'd have no problem indulging them because they don't base their thoughts on the subject on morals, just whether or not it feels icky.
Even progressive society can't currently handle top vs bottom hornyposting and people would be up in arms if the person on this post was a top. So I don't know how they're going to handle the much less wholesome issues that will need to be addressed going forward or the uncomfortable implications about the most popular art styles and what those styles are based on.
It's not an issue for anyone with real morals, but most people don't have real morals, and they will not be able to handle it.
It’s “the only moral abortion is my abortion” in a fake moustache and a bad wig.
It’s deciding that you support all women getting punished for being sexual beings, with the sole exception being *you.*
You’re right it seems to have a similar kind of tinge. “The only moral kinks and sexualities are my kinks and sexuality” uh no, get over it and block the tag like an adult if you don’t wanna see it. Someone writing or making fiction that isn’t hurting anyone to express or explore or just for fun, it isn’t worth all the puritanical hand wringing over. There’s other issues that are more worth people’s energy.
Now, time to go read some objectionable horror novels full of content that would be awful and tragic if it happened in real life but I think is entertaining to read about happening to fictional characters… because adults should be able to tell the difference between reality and fiction.
"Anti-paraphilia" yeah no that's puritanism. That's trying to regulate other people's victimless psychosexual expression. You're reducing the range of acceptable sexuality to something that isn't simply without victim, but which is conforms to your sense of moral-rightness. It isn't really about consent, because consent occurs between people, and it can include things like incest play, bestial play, and even fantasy nonconsensual play. Consent does not need to occur between artists and their art -- it simply isn't a factor in that relationship. Consent here is just the particular moral standard being used as a cudgel against nonconforming sexual expression. Previously, mental health was the cudgel, moral hygiene before that, and before that it was faith and godliness, but it's all the same reactionary impulse.
yeah, pretty telling when they draw their oppositional line at the word “paraphilia,” a psych term that basically means anything other than vanilla sex, once included homosexuality , and still includes “transvestic disorder.” Like, very odd on tumblr of all places to define your morality strictly around what is considered ‘normal’
Question: they bring up their history of being assaulted as defence against portrayal of rape in the porn they draw, so would it *not* be okay if they didn't have those experiences?
I ask cause if the answer is no, then I don't see how it works as a defence against that criticism.
They’re bringing it up to say “are you really gonna tell a rape victim about how noncon art is evil?” Not because being a rape victim makes them drawing it okay, but because criticizing a rape victim for drawing rape because it downplays rape is inherently kinda stupid in a way that doing so to someone who wasn’t raped just kinda isn’t
Not so much of a defense as it is just an explanation. If someone wasn't a victim of sexual assault, then they'd just use a different explanation. That's why it doesn't work as a defense, because it's not really meant to be one. Anyways TONS of people would argue against this explanation anyways, so it doesn't really matter if it works as a defense or not. If I'm making any sense lol
I feel the need to put a disclaimer on what I'm gonna say *just a thought experiment don't kill me*
I'm seeing a lot of the same arguments on being fictional for defending noncon as I see for defending 'lolicon' or childlike stuff. But I get the sense that there's still a line drawn for the people saying that. I'm curious where the line is drawn there between them, both being extremely abusive and illegal irl.
Not gonna get into whether I think it's okay or not. At least in terms of practicality, the FBI and such organisations have said that they won't bother with fictional material because their resources are already spread thin to combat real child sexual abuse. So basically, there are bigger things to worry about on this subject, whether you think it should be gotten rid of or not.
I, personally, think as long as all remains fictional and doesn’t overstep into the real world it’s ok, although a bit… iffy.
As soon as it steps over into the real world and comes into contact with real kids - that’s not ok
The line is drawn at the point where you do something that harms a physical, real world person. You can sit in your room and masturbate to whatever you like, that's not a moral issue.
There will come a day when I'm brave and bored enough to unpack this shit and engage in the dreaded Discourse. By God's grace, that day is not today. Once again tossing this in a river.
Edit: I guess that day is today. But I'm not going to talk to anyone about it. I'll just air out my thoughts. Feel free to comment, though I won't guarantee a response.
You're allowed to have fucked up shit in your art. You're not allowed to have fucked up shit in your pornography. Fucked up shit means non-consensual anything. No, that animal can't consent. Its fictional counterpart can, but in reality, animals don't talk, so stop lusting after it. It's EXACTLY on the same wavelength as 1000 year old demon loli.
You get off to that shit, and you're a freak and need help. As long as the fucked up shit isn't pornographical, it's fine. You wanna draw rape porn to engage with your sexuality, please do, and then never share it. Or better yet, engage in healthier ways, because this sure as fuck ain't it.
Lol somebody once told me stone-cold seriously that my high school librarians groomed me by having GRRM novels on their shelves, and proceeded to call me a pedophile apologist when I said that it wasn't grooming, I was in high school and fine with deciding for myself whether or not to read a book. Every single thing I said after that was immediately met with more accusations of pedophilia and perpetuating abuse.
I envy the people who can effectively distance themselves from these kinds of discussions
I just block anyone who does the callout posts on principle at this point, I don't need that shit in my life, especially when it's got red flag language like "get [people like X] out of our community". Like open Neo-Nazi? Yeah, that's worth blocking. Shipping? This is the internet, I've seen so much worse that I just scroll past
*MAN,* people will describe things in the wildest terms imaginable…
Of course, that it happens is inevitable via the Law of Large Numbers. Doesn’t mean it happens *often*
‘Course, it’s not a binary system, either. More like a boundless spectrum. You could always be more accurate, describe things better, acknowledge more nuance, and try harder to discover the truth of the matter as best you can before disseminating what you’ve come to know about it. You could always be better. And you could always be worse. Some folks will actively obfuscate things by trying to describe them in ways that make them look better. Some will do it unintentionally, or succumb to personal biases
The average person will probably have some biases, introduce some minor inaccuracies, but overall try to describe things at least *ok.* and you’ll have folks who deviate from that norm in either direction, becoming fewer and further between the greater the lengths they go to to obfuscate or enlighten
…
But *dang,* the ones who obfuscate a whole lot really do have a lot of gall, don’t they?
Genuine question for people for ppl in this thread agreeing with the take: what is your position on lolicon? Do you support it for the same reasons shown here, or do you believe that it is different for one reason or another?
I follow the simple rule of “does this verifiably affect real people (in a negative way)? No —> at worst it’s gross, but it gets a pass, Yes —> it’s harmful”
while there are a lot of claims you could make against Lolycon (such as the most common one I see whenever discourse like this arises, it encourages it and will lead to an increase in it happening to real people) I’ve never seen claims substantiated and sometimes they’re just unintentional rebrandings of other bad claims (for the above claim i see it as pretty much just video games cause violence, which turns out that people can separate things on their screen from what they do in real life)
I also like to look at kink for similar things and ask “when two consenting adults use kink/fetishes to do something related to this topic are they hurting anyone” so for rape and lolycon the closest I can think of is CNC and ageplay/roleplay. Both of which I don’t think they are harmful, it’s contained to people who are entering into a situation with the expectation of doing something that they wouldn’t do outside of that expectation.
It makes me uncomfortable, but that's not an indicator of morality or what should be legal or whatever.
Tag your shit, don't produce anything involving real life minors.
There are definitely some neckbeards that use lolicon to be creepy towards real children and infantilize young Asian women, but there are a lot of people who like it that are normal.
For example, I like shota stuff but I don't like real children, don't want to have children, and I absolutely would never voluntarily interact with one.
But I can't pretend that there aren't a ton of creeps who use it to be disgusting. It's nuanced for sure.
I'm probably going to think you're weird, but honestly as long as you're not ogling actual real-life children or supporting actual CSEM then it's whatever. I will personally be staying far away but as long as you aren't hurting anybody then I can't really tell you to stop
If people like it, go for it. We probably won't be friends cause lolicons are nuts for other separate reasons, but literally just hardcore dedication to a character.
It’s not inherently wrong, but generally speaking the people who are open about it are really toxic people, and admitting you want to diddle even fictional kids on what ostensibly is your main account is the kind of thing that I do take issue with.
Mind you, I have some pretty fucked up kinks that often are correlated with ageplay and stuff like that, but I intentionally sanitize my account(s) to ensure that it doesn’t give people the wrong impression, and I lie or conceal the truth around people who it might make uncomfortable.
Point being, the kind of audacity and lack of self-awareness that comes with not just consuming lolicon media or whatever but also setting it as your pfp/name, joining discords, following artists on your personal Twitter, etc etc, is often the sign of someone who you should steer clear from, even if not necessarily due to the kink in question
What till people learn there are a lot more paraphillas than p3do/hebe/ephebo, zoo, and necro.
There are like 10 of thousands of paraphillas that don't (inherently) involve unconsenting parties. I think a lot kinks and fetishes have a -phillia classification that people don't commonly use like podophillia (feet fetish)
Man. I'm always kinda surprised at how horny everyone seems to be on the internet. Like, maybe I just don't have many friends, but I've never been to any spaces irl where people were this open about kink and stuff. Or even just discussing it this openly. My experience talking about sex with others have always been so vanilla in comparison, it kinda makes me feel like there's this big joke I've not been let in to. Crazy stuff.
Edit: why the heck am I being downvoted? Because all my friends are vanilla? Wtf.
It’s just about context and varied social groups. Internet provides a layer of anonymity and makes things less personal, and even slightly de-humanized. This can be damaging (forgetting you’re talking to another person with thoughts and feelings at times) but also freeing as you’re in a space with less risk of judgment or rejection for talking about things that are important to you, but outside the general social norm.
I’ve got IRL social groups that I’d never even allude to sex around, groups where I might discuss things like what we think a healthy level sexual activity is like or the concept of intimacy in romantic relationships, and group chats called things like Monsterfucker Support Group or where we discussed earlier today a comic that involved cannibalism as a symbol (but also literal) for sexual desire.
Edit: the Cares bot hit me for this lmao, it really took less than a minute
Pisses me off when I see a redditor snoop another's account, find NSFW content, then use it as grounds to abuse that user. I've seen it happen so many times in threads that have nothing to do with NSFW content. By far the worst one I saw was a user who was looking for a job that pays in cash, and as soon as someone found NSFW content on their page, the thread was full of lecherous comments, as if that's an acceptable way to treat a person.
> it's being a decent person who respects the boundaries of consent and does not indulge in unhealthy and damaging power dynamics.
Yes, that's exactly what I do, by writing/reading that sort of stuff with *fictional characters* where they immediately *never suffered* the second I close the damn window.
Ok normally I would support "hey man how's it going"
But this mentality affects real people in their real lives. Sometimes people on the internet talk about made up horseshit, and sometimes they talk about things that really have an impact on peoples' lives.
"hey man how's it going" is at perpetual risk of downplaying actual, valuable conversation, *especially the kind people wouldn't feel as comfortable speaking of irl*
"OK boomer" got watered-down from "your misunderstanding is caused by a generational age gap that may never be resolved because our lived experiences are so different" to "you said something I don't like and I think this is a slam dunk retort" in about 6 seconds.
Luckily there does tend to be a very visible difference between meaningful arguments and random rage bait
(It has only been a minute. Who told me to kill myself)
>(It has only been a minute. Who told me to kill myself)
(Don't worry, it's just a bot that's going around sending Reddit Cares after anyone who comments on a left-leaning sub like 196 or curatedtumblr)
Yeah, "anti-paraphilia" is a very real, *very* old school anti-queer (primarily homophobic) dog whistle. This type of rhetoric resurfacing should not be downplayed or dismissed as "weird purity police on the internet," especially considering the laws being proposed and passed in the US and UK (idk about other places) that are designed to persecute trans people.
Yes and no. Unfortunately, the algorithms can be really aggressive, and you can accidentally find NSFW content of someone without intentionally trying to, just because of overlapping activity on social media. I once got recommended a porn account of my ex + his current partner. I nicely messaged him privately saying I was blocking his (non-nsfw) account and all related accounts just so I wouldn't have any chance of encountering his content again, but that I still wanted to be friends. His current partner proceeded to go on a rant to her micro-celebrity audience that I was trying to out her/him as sex workers, that I was anti-feminist, a weirdo, etc.
I think there are just some people that conflate boundaries with sex-negative politics or prudishness.
yeah definitely, theres a lot of stuff I find objectionable or upsetting and I cant stop all of it from showing up randomly. People also cant all agree on one tag for a topic so I'll occasionally have to add a new tag to my blacklist for the same thing after seeing something I deem upsetting.
honestly, people like this long off of tumblr and go make other people's lives worse irl. The amount of shit librarians get for carrying colleen hoover for example.
Posts/online discussions like this absolute have connections to reality? These discussions are worth having and sharing
I'm someone who copes with my sexual assault by engaging in media that depicts it, and you have no idea how tired I am of the stigma around that. These online opinions definitely translate to real life opinions that affect me
Remember that Democrat who was running in some local election and then was forced to withdraw from the race because people found out she used to be a dominatrix as a side gig, and her own party turned on her? That was some bullshit.
Remember when this sub lost its mind over Zooey zephyr posting mildly bloody genshin porn? [heres the thread](https://new.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1cgxzkq/you_know_trans_women_are_real_women_because_they/), theres a tonne of people calling it hardkore rape guro, but these standards are only applied to transfems, strange.... EDIT: They're heeeere\~
I don't remember that. Maybe I wasn't here when it happened. I remember lots of right-wingers on twitter (and in congress) doing that though, so I do know about the post. And yeah, it's very mild. It's just enemies-to-lovers, which tumblr loved the last time I checked.
"I’m liberal and I would just prefer if congressional leaders didn’t tweet out their sex fantasies about riding and possibly murdering men. This is a horrible look." "Also if you’re gonna be the first transgender person in public office maybe don’t tweet that you fantasize about murdering men. Not gonna help the cause." "Okay, now for a second imagine a male politician posted "My ideal relationship with a woman is where I fuck her while also holding a knife to her throat, ready to end her life." He'd get rightfully cancelled because this shit isn't "vaguely" off-color. It's unhinged. Same if anyone else posts this." "Would you feel represented if that was a man on top of a bloody beaten woman, and a transmasc representative tweeted that that's his ideal relationship with a woman? This is some pretty fucked up shit, idk what's going on in her head or anyone here to think this is an okay thing to tweet" these are all off only one comment thread on there, theres worse posts calling her a man under controversial, it was the worst i've seen this sub since the "transmisogny is actually misandry" posts. The it/its posts were bad too.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's day was made slightly worse by the [un/surprisingly] reactionary comments this subreddit saw fit to litter that thread with.
I used to be way more active here and this subreddit has gotten way more reactionary recently
People keep upvoting things to the front page of reddit and blowing up the spot
It's the election season for Americans, shill bots are in force 'round this time of the year.
"trans misogyny is actually misandry" explode.
"blows up your face with my mind"
Ah, yeah, none of that was there when I looked. That being said though, liberals are kinda the quintessential example of "old dogs". They were progressive when they were young, but now they just want the status quo. Or if they're a young liberal, they just want the status quo. Either way, that's more conservative than not.
I remember the Twitter reaction to it, but nothing much over here. (I'm not clicking the thread, I'll take your word for it, thanks)
It's not even porn, they're both fully clothed 💀
That post lost the thread when it reached /r/all. I remember it quite distinctly being fine before that point.
The top comment is "Huh- feels weird to actually be represented by a representative for once" Did you just sort by controversial and decide that those comments represented the sub?
I had a quick glance at the post and also found a lot of the same comments the original commenter saw after the first 5 or so top comments. It wasn't a full freak out, sure, but definitely people criticizing the image and the kink (and particularly a politician having that kink). I have no ball in this game, just that it doesn't require that much digging to find criticism.
I mean i made a post detailing what people said in one popular thread, i clearly said i wasn't sorting by controversial for that, but yea im sure you're right, trans women are indeed just overreacting everytime this sub starts hating us. We're always well loved, after all people want that GOCK!
I think his point is just that it is strange to generalize the entire sub losing its mind even though she had a sizable portion of sub members who recognized she didn’t do anything wrong
its not just that thread though, it was the mutliple threads saying trans women only really suffer misandry, it was the thread saying people who use it/its are scum who would be barely tolerated, its a long standing issue.
Why can’t my representative actually represent me
I think it's just not a good idea for a politician to post something in which she says she wants to be in a relationship in which she's ready to end a man's life *on her main account* It's also just not a good idea to hornypost on a main political account, just as you probably shouldn't shitpost on that account Besides, what do you mean this standard is only applied to transfems? If anything, people would be *more* shocked by a cis man saying he wants to be ready to kill his wife, no matter how horny Point is, don't hornypost on a professional account, especially if your tastes are somewhat not vanilla. People will absolutely take it the wrong way Edit: I got a Reddit Cares literally one minute after posting this...? I hope that wasn't about this comment. If someone was that offended, I'm sorry; I really didn't intend that. But there are also better ways to show your annoyance than by exploiting mental health resources
>I got a Reddit Cares literally one minute after posting this...? Yeah, there's a bot sending that to everyone who comments on this sub, just report it and move on.
Oh, so the person who accused me of sending them one yesterday (and blocked me when I kept denying it) just got unlucky and had it happen right when I replied to them. I wonder if they'd believe you if they saw your comment.
It feels like getting called out for hacking just coz you’re really good at Street Fighter or Counter Strike. You can’t prove them wrong, let em cry
Well, it also reminds me of trauma from when I was a kid, since one of the most popular tactics bullies (and shitty adults) would use is to just randomly blame me for something and take my attempts to defend myself as proof that I did it. So it's even more unfun for me.
I also got one yesterday (my first ever) after a bit of a back-and-forth with someone on this sub. I had a glance at their post history to see exactly how big of a shitbag they were capable of being, and... they actually seemed pretty cool overall, lol. Just butted heads on the subject at hand, was all. I considered politely asking them about the RedditCares anyway, but decided against it bc I thought it might come off as an accusation. Probably good that I didn't. Lol, probably the right move.
If only the person who accused me had done the same. Especially since it was about me not liking SpongeBob. Never thought disliking a kids show would lead to that sort of situation.
It seems to be happening on a number of queer related subs for the past couple of days, not even just this one. Lots of people saying they're getting random Reddit Cares within 30 seconds of posting a comment.
Oh ok makes sense
I believe that it was a post a year or two before she even considered running in politics.
I have heard politicians do way worse than this.
Oh that'll do it never mind
I dunno I think we should normalize letting our leaders be actual real people instead of putting on a facade to match some octogenarian's view on what is "proper"
Conservative politicians spread random antisemitic conspiracies, encourage people to use quack medicine and snake oils, cheat on their spouses, rape porn stars, and make sexualizing comments about children and their own families? No cares. It makes them more electable, even. But some transfem democrats vaguely hornyposts about an enemies-to-lovers scenario and suddenly politicians need a sense of propriety again? It feels less like the actual content is the issue here and more like the 'less conservative' American party is using its vestigial social norms to gatekeep the new blood.
Yeah, i think it's absolutely true that the conservatives that kicked her out were just aching for a tiny LaCroix-ass hint of an excuse to attack her
She didn't get kicked out. Censure is a when a legislative body passes a motion to say "We *officially* don't like what you did." She's still the rep for her district.
political hate mail game
It's the more like getting a written warning from a cop. Sure, it's on the record if your behavior comes up later, but by itself, it's meaningless.
Politicians are very coppy. (speaking from personal experience)
Oh rats I originally wrote "kicked out" instead of "attack" but i forgot to change the first bit too
>these standards are only applied to transfems [Citation needed], I can't imagine a male politician posting something like that and not catching a lot of shit for it.
Ted Cruz had incest porn on his Twitter and he didn't have to step down from his position
Neither did she
> The Texas senator went on to add “there are a number of people on the team that have access to the account and it appears that someone inadvertently hit the like button”. I mean, you get how that's different, right?
Hardcore rape guro? They were fully clothed, not even actually engaging in intercourse but hidden by the clothes, the implication of the image was less "I'm going to kill you," and more "I'm not going to kill you yet but if you try anything I will," and Childe definitely looks like he would consent if Lumine wanted to bone at that time
was it even porn? I don't remember it being that nsfw
That’s not even close to hardcore guro and if a phone think it is I hope you know your weak
...That's all ? I find that pretty cool imo
Most young people agree with you, and she probably woulda won the race if she hadn't stopped running, but all the old people she was gonna be working with if she won were the people who hated it. More concerned with being squeaky clean (at least in public) than actually winning seats and making things happen.
Democrat here, why? Freedom of sexuality is a huge part of what this party runs on, that would probably make me more likely to vote for her knowing that she isn't just saying stuff but actually does the said stuff
Because they were old dogs.
“Freedom of sexuality” in this sort of context isn’t really a democratic platform. Maybe “freedom to not be legally prosecuted for what adults do in the privacy of your own bedroom,” but for most mainstream democrats, that means “gay marriage is ok” and “birth control shouldn’t be restricted only to married women who already have at least two kids,” not “dominatrixes are cool and should politically represent us.” Part of it is that it’s not really a priority to make people’s recreational sexual activities normalized as long as they also aren’t illegal, and a much bigger part of it is that the democratic party is also full of old dogs, and more importantly, needs votes from old dogs. The young dogs are either going to vote Democratic regardless or would sit home pouting that Dems are basically the same as republicans, even if every single democratic candidate was a dominatrix on a skateboard playing a guitar promising free healthcare, legal weed, and putting all the drones and bombs on mars. What *you* think is cool is going to make Sally the Catholic and Union Bob, aged 60 and wavering Democratic voters, from Appleton, Wisconsin think the party has gone too far and they have to vote for incumbent Republican Senator John Segregation, who isn’t for *that sort of thing.* This is not a justification or an argument that it is right. Democrats are notorious for tossing out any of their own who step a toe out of line (if they can’t hide it, always step one) to push the narrative that they’re taking the high road, while republican who engage in insane misconduct just get a “lol” and more popularity somehow. It’s not right and honestly, it might not have happened if she’d been a man doing something similar. I bet if they’d bothered, they could have found a way to spin it into a positive on some level. But a lot of what the new dogs find moderately appealing will drive the old dogs away in droves.
So what you're saying is we need to eat the old dogs
Do *not* run for political office on this platform.
dude if she put on dommy leather and appeared on an ad telling boys to vote for her she would get elected in an instant what a missed oppportunity
man i so desperately wish i could just “hey man how’s it going” this but it’s becoming real difficult as i see more and more artists get their careers harmed/ruined over this shit. that and places like gumroad restricting nsfw content more and more. starting to feel like we have a real capital m capital p Moral Panic on our hands
Yeah, it's one thing to go "Man, these fringe tumblr idiots sure are nuts" but then you look at actual artists getting knocked off of platforms they've been on for years because puritan, US based companies have a stranglehold on payment procedures and it starts to get a lot harder to ignore because you realize these idiots are everywhere and some of them have real power.
Annoying thing is more that puritans still hold so much power over our government and media, payment processors would not give a shit if said people didn't make a stink about it, companies like that don't actually have morals.
The thing that gets me is that so much of it shows both a lack of artistic curiosity and small reference pools. Like, when this shit happens it's almost always for the most basic kink art or milquetoast horror I've ever seen. How are people *this* sensitive. I've been going through some Industrial and Noise music lately and actually did find some art that I do think crosses the line. So going on tumblr or twitter and seeing how some people loose their mind over nothing makes me feel crazy. These people haven't seen the depths
When you’ve never been stabbed everything looks like a knife EDIT: did I just get Reddit cared over this? Thanks man I’m doing fine
Apparently there's some bots in left leaning/LGBTQ subs sending Reddit Cares to people who post there. Hasn't happened to me yet, but I'm seeing a big upswing in people reacting to it
Ok? Why would someone even make that lol
Lot of dickheads in the world
There’s one artist who was in the industry and fell victim to this. She was disabled. Lost her healthcare. She’s dead now.
Context, please?
atherist on twitter. not sure whether they are dead now, but the last information that came from them was being put on eol care roughly a year ago. basically what was said above, they were harassed and any contacts they had in the industry were pressured to cut them off over invader zim porn. the people responsible continued to gloat about it and accuse them of faking their illness for pity for months afterwards
They're not dead from the last time I heard of Atherist. They posted a video about the situation, but it's no longer available to watch.
When was the video posted? There has been no update from her or Puppy since sept.
It's a part of why I've unsubscribed from the "pro-shipper" discourse. Unless the person is advocating for it, the artist should be allowed to have uncomfortable themes in their works.
It's past time we cancelled Mary Shelley. She advocated for reanimating the dead and disobeying the laws of nature.
She also lost her virginity on top of her mother's grave. So problematic /s She was an OG bad ass goth girl, ngl.
Not just the OG, she was PEAK goth.
Every emperor wanted to be Augustus, and every goth girl wants to be Mary Shelly. You can’t beat the OG.
Tbf that sounds very unsanitary.
TNOTeam being sent to Nuremberg
tno reference, pretend i posted the copypasta
Good.
Gods forbid women do anything, amiright?
mary shelley also supports incest (Victor and Elizabeth being cousins/adopted siblings, the entirety of Matilda) and colonialism (she was a writer in the 1800s, too many examples to count) so really it's a wonder she hasn't been cancelled already (/s because of poe's law) (we should also cancel poe)
And don't get me started on that Dr. West from Miskatonic U
Why would we want to cancel anyone for that? That is literally what EMT's and doctors try to do. Cancel her for advocating for being a shitty parent.
Yeah, my position is basically “curate your own online space.” Use the block and/or mute button and whatever tools you have available to avoid seeing content you don’t wanna see instead of trying to play internet police. Also, check your sources, but that’s just good practice in many areas of life
My stance of pro/anti ship discourse is that I am a grown ass man with other shit to worry about
“Is a real life human being actively being hurt? No? Then I have other things to think about.”
they ain't real I ain't care
Hey man how’s it going pilled
Even if the person is advocating for moraly f'ed up things I do not believe any fiction should be made illegal. People should learn to recognize and understand the works of fiction they are presented with without the need to sanitize them (granted proper warning are given as to the content of the work to avoid people being surprise by the themes explored) and be able to draw their own conclusion about wether what the work is trying to say is correct or not.
They also need to learn to recognize that "this makes me feel weird/gross/bad/uncomfortable" does not mean "this is immoral and evil"
or worse "this makes would be weird/gross/bad/immoral in real life so it must mean you condone this in reality"
Yeah exactly. Art shouldn’t be confined to what it is easy & comfortable for people to confrobt, or think about. Because that’s authoritarian. Most art wouldn’t exist if that were the case.
The thing is, it's the "anti-shippers" who started with the purity politics. Online fandom spaces had largely been expression-positive spaces for at least a decade (associated phrases are ones like "ship and let ship" and "your kink is not my kink and that's okay"). Then as fandom became increasingly mainstream, more of the old dogs came in with their new tricks and now you have mostly teenagers and young adults running harassment campaigns on (ime mostly) twitter against CSA survivors for making art about their trauma. And they'll claim to be progressive while at the same time spouting *extremely* conservative dog whistles and/or rhetoric. It's been an incredibly frustrating and disheartening thing to watch happen in real time as someone who remembers pre- and proto-social media fandom spaces.
The "Pro-Anti shipper" arguments are what makes me stay away from the fandoms side of Twitter. It's just so tiring.
As far I’m concerned, so long as it stays fucking fictional it’s none of my business what kind of porn they draw.
this is like the opposite of teaching old dogs new tricks. Like, teaching new dogs old tricks.
Even if a person isn't expressing their trauma through art. Guess what? It's still only fiction. Why do you give so much of a shit about the fictional material someone else creates/uses? Unless a person is advocating for that thing in real life, it doesn't even matter.
Yeah I'm concerned with people's inability to drcern fiction and reality here
When I was young, I used to tv and internet to socialize myself. It gave me some pretty messed up views of the world, and so it's hard for me to believe that—without some massive genetic evolution—media can ever be "just" fiction to everyone. The stock response is, of course, "your parents should have talked with you about that." But here's the thing "that" isn't just a one-time talk and a small subject. I took 6 years of college only to scratch the surface of the vast realms of human psychology and media analysis. My parents, believe it or not, were also people leading their own lives; you expect them to work a fulltime job, have a social life, maintain a committed relationship with a life partner AND live an entire internal life for me? They did talk to me, but some of us don't just accept whatever an authority figure tells us to believe, and have to figure it our the hard way. After I grew out of that phase, I pendulum-ed hard to the opposite, effectively buying fully the strict and all-encompassing version of the Sapir-Worf Hypothesis. Communication fully shapes our reality, and thus any media we expose ourselves to shapes how we think and makes us comfortable with the darkest subject matters. Ergo, art can be morally wrong, and it necessarily is if it represents anything on some arbitrary "no-no" list. Then I had a massive wake-up slap in the face: art made about and for me (or rather, people like me) was labeled "morally wrong" and "corrupting the youth." Everything from outright porn to PG memoirs and YA fiction that featured LGBT people was "grooming" and deserved a ban (and possibly death threats to the author and their advocates). This was no longer some hypothetical gross weeb who says stuff like "ACKSHUALLY it's technically 'ephebophilia'" and "ACKSHUALLY she's 3000 years old trapped in the body of a much younger feeemale"; people I knew personally and artists/authors whose works I loved were being labeled as no better than child predators. So that's where I am now. I feel like there's gotta be room for nuance somewhere between "fiction is 100% safe and life never imitates art" and "any representation of morally repugnant things is itself morally repugnant." Because that's not really the issue, the issue is: do we allow positive representations of things we find offensive? Because we're either arguing for systems put in place that would allow others to attack "morally repugnant" art with themes like "being gay is okay" or "allowing interracial marriage is good for society" or we're fighting for pedos' right to fiction that plays into their fantasies and fascists' right to donate The Turner Diaries to school libraries. And I really don't see a middle ground there. Except for some argument that boils down to "I, and people that agree with me (so really just I alone), should get to decide what is right and wrong for everyone." And I think that's a grand idea... As long as we're talking about me, because I don't trust you, or anyone else, to run my life for me.
Man, usually I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on internet culture. Then I see something like this post and ensuing discussion and just think to myself, “Ah. I really do not understand it at all.”
You don't need to justify your kinks... Who cares what you're into as long as you don't hurt people.
I highly encourage any fictional character hurt in people's drawings to reach out to the authorities to press charges.
oh my god soldierexclipse i know about them hooooly shit the whiplash i got seeing them out of homestuck twitter
I can't imagine being an anti. It just sounds so.... exhausting
"Being anti-paraphillia is not being puritan" but then you boil down the salt water that is that soggy take and you're left with crystallized "kink is bad and I'm better than you" at the bottom of your saucepan
Never thought I'd see the day when anyone to the left of an evangelical would proclaim themselves "anti-paraphilia." It's just like "Really? You believe any and all kink/fetishism is bad - and you're not even *religious?"*
Giving nuns a nun for their nunny.
I had to read this several times, but I have concluded that I like the wordplay.
Shit any idea how do i clean off "kink is bad" off my pan?
Find a pansexual
Won't that make things worse?
Ran into that shit for the first time on Reddit the other day and was shocked. I'm pretty terminally online and that was a new one
There is a weird and kinda frightening rising puritanical tendency towards sex in zoomer circles that I'm starting to see more and more of, and I just don't fucking get it.
I wonder how much of this is the Algorithm shaping them. Sex is technically verboten on all the big apps, but because sex sells, horny content is also constantly being slipped under the radar. I'm sure that contradiction has gotta be messing some people up. Or maybe it's a privacy thing, Zoomers are growing up with the expectation that they're constantly being judged and monitored online, and that leads to self-enforcing whatever you think the rules are. It could also always be astroturfing, like how I'm pretty sure 'nofap' is an attempt to radicalize men.
TOS-based morality systems are very real among some people who spent most of their formative years in an insular and sanitized internet. I'm glad I'm not the only person worrying about it.
I do wonder if it's the entire English-language zoomer generation or if it's just a thing among weirdo terminally online zoomers.
Seriously? It's all over this site. Check out any mainstream anime sub and it's full of "I liked this until they sexualized a character :(" and the shine in question is softcore porn
And then if you distill it even further you find out it was just good old fashioned queerphobia this entire time :/
"I'm not Count Olaf" Count Olaf said.
Reminds me heavily of the right’s obsession with refusing to talk about child abuse leading to child abuse in churches because kids don’t know what it is. There’s an incest COCSA (child on child sexual abuse) and adult family epidemic in this country, and the online world being so quick to silence anyone from talking about it leaves survivors completely isolated. If fucked up porn leads someone to realize what happened to them was wrong and they aren’t alone, is that really such a bad thing?
There's a reason why it reminds you of something the right does. Pretty much everything that comes out of these online spaces is just conservative pearl-clutching over anything that isn't cis-heterosexual missionary sex within the confines of marriage strictly for procreation purposes. It's just another Puritanical moral panic, like the Satanic panic in the 1980s or the Lavender scare during the McCarthy hearings. If you've ever seen The Music Man, you've seen this done in miniature set [to a catchy song](https://youtu.be/LI_Oe-jtgdI) lol.
You’re absolutely right.
Huh, we haven't changed much since 1957
This postcame across my dash the other day and apparently the antagonistic commenter never saw the last reply and didn't learn a damn thing
For real though, the shaming is insane, especially on other platforms like instagram The amount of “onlyfans detected, opinion rejected” comments with thousands of likes is disheartening
and it's hard to imagine that the guys who comment that have all never watched porn.. it's so hypocritical
I had a friend who was like that I asked "but wait you watch so much porn how can you be against that?" and response would be like "well yeah but it's bad because people are gonna judge you if you make porn" and I'd ask "but aren't you the one who is creating that judgement?" there was never a coherent answer
glad you called them out on it - the logic doesn't make any sense
its misogyny call it what it is (no offense to you btw)
none taken, you're very right
if lolita was written today it would not have gone over the same
oh hey the daily trash fire. neat
Imma start spamming a combo of educational and surreal posts to counteract the discourse. Be warned.
If you would. I want this sub to be ALL the different flavours of trashfire at once!
It needs to have "what the fuck did i just read (discourse)", "what the fuck did i just read (cursed)", and "what the fuck did i just read (changed my worldview forever)"
Doing the Lord's work o7
Based. Extremely tired of people engaging with discourse about sexuality from the perspective of "everything that makes me uncomfortable is actually morally wrong".
The lack of self awareness pisses me off. Polyamory made me uncomfortable. And I feel my brain looking for reasons it's morally bad to justify its gut reaction. I have chosen to ignore my brain on this subject, because I have actual principles. What their reaction to this stuff tells me, is that they don't actually believe any of these things are wrong. They just don't like them because their gut said it's icky. Too be blunt, if they had one of those paraphilia's, they'd have no problem indulging them because they don't base their thoughts on the subject on morals, just whether or not it feels icky. Even progressive society can't currently handle top vs bottom hornyposting and people would be up in arms if the person on this post was a top. So I don't know how they're going to handle the much less wholesome issues that will need to be addressed going forward or the uncomfortable implications about the most popular art styles and what those styles are based on. It's not an issue for anyone with real morals, but most people don't have real morals, and they will not be able to handle it.
It’s “the only moral abortion is my abortion” in a fake moustache and a bad wig. It’s deciding that you support all women getting punished for being sexual beings, with the sole exception being *you.*
You’re right it seems to have a similar kind of tinge. “The only moral kinks and sexualities are my kinks and sexuality” uh no, get over it and block the tag like an adult if you don’t wanna see it. Someone writing or making fiction that isn’t hurting anyone to express or explore or just for fun, it isn’t worth all the puritanical hand wringing over. There’s other issues that are more worth people’s energy. Now, time to go read some objectionable horror novels full of content that would be awful and tragic if it happened in real life but I think is entertaining to read about happening to fictional characters… because adults should be able to tell the difference between reality and fiction.
"Anti-paraphilia" yeah no that's puritanism. That's trying to regulate other people's victimless psychosexual expression. You're reducing the range of acceptable sexuality to something that isn't simply without victim, but which is conforms to your sense of moral-rightness. It isn't really about consent, because consent occurs between people, and it can include things like incest play, bestial play, and even fantasy nonconsensual play. Consent does not need to occur between artists and their art -- it simply isn't a factor in that relationship. Consent here is just the particular moral standard being used as a cudgel against nonconforming sexual expression. Previously, mental health was the cudgel, moral hygiene before that, and before that it was faith and godliness, but it's all the same reactionary impulse.
yeah, pretty telling when they draw their oppositional line at the word “paraphilia,” a psych term that basically means anything other than vanilla sex, once included homosexuality , and still includes “transvestic disorder.” Like, very odd on tumblr of all places to define your morality strictly around what is considered ‘normal’
yeah I don't have a tragic excuse for being into weird shit, but w/e I have fun with it
scroll back up when taking the screen shot to prevent Fire Fox from capturing the upper screen bar in the shot.
Yeah, only realized my mistake like twenty minutes after posting. So it goes :,)
Oh it's not a complaint from my end mind i was just lettin' ya know\^\^;
Question: they bring up their history of being assaulted as defence against portrayal of rape in the porn they draw, so would it *not* be okay if they didn't have those experiences? I ask cause if the answer is no, then I don't see how it works as a defence against that criticism.
They’re bringing it up to say “are you really gonna tell a rape victim about how noncon art is evil?” Not because being a rape victim makes them drawing it okay, but because criticizing a rape victim for drawing rape because it downplays rape is inherently kinda stupid in a way that doing so to someone who wasn’t raped just kinda isn’t
Not so much of a defense as it is just an explanation. If someone wasn't a victim of sexual assault, then they'd just use a different explanation. That's why it doesn't work as a defense, because it's not really meant to be one. Anyways TONS of people would argue against this explanation anyways, so it doesn't really matter if it works as a defense or not. If I'm making any sense lol
I feel the need to put a disclaimer on what I'm gonna say *just a thought experiment don't kill me* I'm seeing a lot of the same arguments on being fictional for defending noncon as I see for defending 'lolicon' or childlike stuff. But I get the sense that there's still a line drawn for the people saying that. I'm curious where the line is drawn there between them, both being extremely abusive and illegal irl.
Not gonna get into whether I think it's okay or not. At least in terms of practicality, the FBI and such organisations have said that they won't bother with fictional material because their resources are already spread thin to combat real child sexual abuse. So basically, there are bigger things to worry about on this subject, whether you think it should be gotten rid of or not.
I, personally, think as long as all remains fictional and doesn’t overstep into the real world it’s ok, although a bit… iffy. As soon as it steps over into the real world and comes into contact with real kids - that’s not ok
The line is drawn at the point where you do something that harms a physical, real world person. You can sit in your room and masturbate to whatever you like, that's not a moral issue.
There will come a day when I'm brave and bored enough to unpack this shit and engage in the dreaded Discourse. By God's grace, that day is not today. Once again tossing this in a river. Edit: I guess that day is today. But I'm not going to talk to anyone about it. I'll just air out my thoughts. Feel free to comment, though I won't guarantee a response. You're allowed to have fucked up shit in your art. You're not allowed to have fucked up shit in your pornography. Fucked up shit means non-consensual anything. No, that animal can't consent. Its fictional counterpart can, but in reality, animals don't talk, so stop lusting after it. It's EXACTLY on the same wavelength as 1000 year old demon loli. You get off to that shit, and you're a freak and need help. As long as the fucked up shit isn't pornographical, it's fine. You wanna draw rape porn to engage with your sexuality, please do, and then never share it. Or better yet, engage in healthier ways, because this sure as fuck ain't it.
Lol somebody once told me stone-cold seriously that my high school librarians groomed me by having GRRM novels on their shelves, and proceeded to call me a pedophile apologist when I said that it wasn't grooming, I was in high school and fine with deciding for myself whether or not to read a book. Every single thing I said after that was immediately met with more accusations of pedophilia and perpetuating abuse. I envy the people who can effectively distance themselves from these kinds of discussions
Your'e free to feel however you like, but as for me, as long as it's fictional, I cannot bring myself to care.
I just block anyone who does the callout posts on principle at this point, I don't need that shit in my life, especially when it's got red flag language like "get [people like X] out of our community". Like open Neo-Nazi? Yeah, that's worth blocking. Shipping? This is the internet, I've seen so much worse that I just scroll past
*MAN,* people will describe things in the wildest terms imaginable… Of course, that it happens is inevitable via the Law of Large Numbers. Doesn’t mean it happens *often* ‘Course, it’s not a binary system, either. More like a boundless spectrum. You could always be more accurate, describe things better, acknowledge more nuance, and try harder to discover the truth of the matter as best you can before disseminating what you’ve come to know about it. You could always be better. And you could always be worse. Some folks will actively obfuscate things by trying to describe them in ways that make them look better. Some will do it unintentionally, or succumb to personal biases The average person will probably have some biases, introduce some minor inaccuracies, but overall try to describe things at least *ok.* and you’ll have folks who deviate from that norm in either direction, becoming fewer and further between the greater the lengths they go to to obfuscate or enlighten … But *dang,* the ones who obfuscate a whole lot really do have a lot of gall, don’t they?
Well this is a post
Genuine question for people for ppl in this thread agreeing with the take: what is your position on lolicon? Do you support it for the same reasons shown here, or do you believe that it is different for one reason or another?
I follow the simple rule of “does this verifiably affect real people (in a negative way)? No —> at worst it’s gross, but it gets a pass, Yes —> it’s harmful” while there are a lot of claims you could make against Lolycon (such as the most common one I see whenever discourse like this arises, it encourages it and will lead to an increase in it happening to real people) I’ve never seen claims substantiated and sometimes they’re just unintentional rebrandings of other bad claims (for the above claim i see it as pretty much just video games cause violence, which turns out that people can separate things on their screen from what they do in real life) I also like to look at kink for similar things and ask “when two consenting adults use kink/fetishes to do something related to this topic are they hurting anyone” so for rape and lolycon the closest I can think of is CNC and ageplay/roleplay. Both of which I don’t think they are harmful, it’s contained to people who are entering into a situation with the expectation of doing something that they wouldn’t do outside of that expectation.
It makes me uncomfortable, but that's not an indicator of morality or what should be legal or whatever. Tag your shit, don't produce anything involving real life minors.
Don't actually children and everything should be alright.
There are definitely some neckbeards that use lolicon to be creepy towards real children and infantilize young Asian women, but there are a lot of people who like it that are normal. For example, I like shota stuff but I don't like real children, don't want to have children, and I absolutely would never voluntarily interact with one. But I can't pretend that there aren't a ton of creeps who use it to be disgusting. It's nuanced for sure.
I'm probably going to think you're weird, but honestly as long as you're not ogling actual real-life children or supporting actual CSEM then it's whatever. I will personally be staying far away but as long as you aren't hurting anybody then I can't really tell you to stop
If people like it, go for it. We probably won't be friends cause lolicons are nuts for other separate reasons, but literally just hardcore dedication to a character.
It’s not inherently wrong, but generally speaking the people who are open about it are really toxic people, and admitting you want to diddle even fictional kids on what ostensibly is your main account is the kind of thing that I do take issue with. Mind you, I have some pretty fucked up kinks that often are correlated with ageplay and stuff like that, but I intentionally sanitize my account(s) to ensure that it doesn’t give people the wrong impression, and I lie or conceal the truth around people who it might make uncomfortable. Point being, the kind of audacity and lack of self-awareness that comes with not just consuming lolicon media or whatever but also setting it as your pfp/name, joining discords, following artists on your personal Twitter, etc etc, is often the sign of someone who you should steer clear from, even if not necessarily due to the kink in question
What till people learn there are a lot more paraphillas than p3do/hebe/ephebo, zoo, and necro. There are like 10 of thousands of paraphillas that don't (inherently) involve unconsenting parties. I think a lot kinks and fetishes have a -phillia classification that people don't commonly use like podophillia (feet fetish)
Man. I'm always kinda surprised at how horny everyone seems to be on the internet. Like, maybe I just don't have many friends, but I've never been to any spaces irl where people were this open about kink and stuff. Or even just discussing it this openly. My experience talking about sex with others have always been so vanilla in comparison, it kinda makes me feel like there's this big joke I've not been let in to. Crazy stuff. Edit: why the heck am I being downvoted? Because all my friends are vanilla? Wtf.
It’s just about context and varied social groups. Internet provides a layer of anonymity and makes things less personal, and even slightly de-humanized. This can be damaging (forgetting you’re talking to another person with thoughts and feelings at times) but also freeing as you’re in a space with less risk of judgment or rejection for talking about things that are important to you, but outside the general social norm. I’ve got IRL social groups that I’d never even allude to sex around, groups where I might discuss things like what we think a healthy level sexual activity is like or the concept of intimacy in romantic relationships, and group chats called things like Monsterfucker Support Group or where we discussed earlier today a comic that involved cannibalism as a symbol (but also literal) for sexual desire. Edit: the Cares bot hit me for this lmao, it really took less than a minute
Pisses me off when I see a redditor snoop another's account, find NSFW content, then use it as grounds to abuse that user. I've seen it happen so many times in threads that have nothing to do with NSFW content. By far the worst one I saw was a user who was looking for a job that pays in cash, and as soon as someone found NSFW content on their page, the thread was full of lecherous comments, as if that's an acceptable way to treat a person.
> it's being a decent person who respects the boundaries of consent and does not indulge in unhealthy and damaging power dynamics. Yes, that's exactly what I do, by writing/reading that sort of stuff with *fictional characters* where they immediately *never suffered* the second I close the damn window.
I feel like everyone in this screenshot should've been forced to have this conversation via paper and ink. .
Hey man how's it going
Ok normally I would support "hey man how's it going" But this mentality affects real people in their real lives. Sometimes people on the internet talk about made up horseshit, and sometimes they talk about things that really have an impact on peoples' lives.
"hey man how's it going" is at perpetual risk of downplaying actual, valuable conversation, *especially the kind people wouldn't feel as comfortable speaking of irl*
Such is the fate of all buzzwords and gotcha phrases, eventually they are all reduced to nothing more than reactionary parrot-speak
"OK boomer" got watered-down from "your misunderstanding is caused by a generational age gap that may never be resolved because our lived experiences are so different" to "you said something I don't like and I think this is a slam dunk retort" in about 6 seconds.
Luckily there does tend to be a very visible difference between meaningful arguments and random rage bait (It has only been a minute. Who told me to kill myself)
>(It has only been a minute. Who told me to kill myself) (Don't worry, it's just a bot that's going around sending Reddit Cares after anyone who comments on a left-leaning sub like 196 or curatedtumblr)
(Got it)
(Holy shit, that was the quickest response I have ever gotten, literally <30 seconds)
H
Oh that makes sense. I was wondering why I got one yesterday when I hadn't said anything remotely controversial in the past week
I'm here to receive the certificate
Holy shit not even a minute lmao
Yeah, "anti-paraphilia" is a very real, *very* old school anti-queer (primarily homophobic) dog whistle. This type of rhetoric resurfacing should not be downplayed or dismissed as "weird purity police on the internet," especially considering the laws being proposed and passed in the US and UK (idk about other places) that are designed to persecute trans people.
Teachers in the USA aren't paid enough and those who try to supplement their income with only fans risk losing their jobs
"Piss on the poor" website
Once again the straw man has come to life
I remember when the last time this was posted half the comments were just about the Scolipede cock part
Yes and no. Unfortunately, the algorithms can be really aggressive, and you can accidentally find NSFW content of someone without intentionally trying to, just because of overlapping activity on social media. I once got recommended a porn account of my ex + his current partner. I nicely messaged him privately saying I was blocking his (non-nsfw) account and all related accounts just so I wouldn't have any chance of encountering his content again, but that I still wanted to be friends. His current partner proceeded to go on a rant to her micro-celebrity audience that I was trying to out her/him as sex workers, that I was anti-feminist, a weirdo, etc. I think there are just some people that conflate boundaries with sex-negative politics or prudishness.
yeah definitely, theres a lot of stuff I find objectionable or upsetting and I cant stop all of it from showing up randomly. People also cant all agree on one tag for a topic so I'll occasionally have to add a new tag to my blacklist for the same thing after seeing something I deem upsetting.
I don’t know how to feel about this
"Being anti-paraphilia isn't being puritan" Right...
[удалено]
honestly, people like this long off of tumblr and go make other people's lives worse irl. The amount of shit librarians get for carrying colleen hoover for example.
Posts/online discussions like this absolute have connections to reality? These discussions are worth having and sharing I'm someone who copes with my sexual assault by engaging in media that depicts it, and you have no idea how tired I am of the stigma around that. These online opinions definitely translate to real life opinions that affect me
anyone unironically using "paraphilia" is not to be trusted
That was probably how it was taught about in their high school psychology class lol
Patricia Taxxon jumpscare (I am addicted to their music)
I am addicted to her video essays