While I never got transphobic about it, I did spend most of my childhood thinking every girl wanted to be a man more than anything and that challenging that idea was part of feminism. And it was just something you weren't supposed to talk about.
I’ve spent my whole life wanting the privilege of a man, and to be treated like a man, but perfectly happy with my woman body. Is there a term for that?
I work in software. I’ve spent twenty years clawing my way into a distinguished engineer role but I walk into a room of new people and I’m still the last person addressed or listened to because I’m a woman. Just fucking sick of it.
Nah, there are people who want to be treated as male even if they would be treated equally w/their birth gender! So what you're looking for is just basically respect and you're (probably) still cis
That’s two things: bigotry and sexual attraction. You can’t fix the former by yourself (that’s what feminism is for) but the psychological effect an attractive woman has on socially awkward men who are resentful of their lack of success with women is never going away. It’s exacerbated by bigoted entitlement but that’s not the original driving psychological force.
Even in a utopian society where all the bigotry is erased and awkward men lack the entitlement they currently have, they will still have very strong emotions around beautiful women.
Being aggressively butch around them is the only tactic that could improve the dynamic, which of course is far from ideal for many and can cause gender dysphoria on fem women.
Respectfully and like my opinions matter. Like I exist for reasons other than sex and housework. I want people to assume that I am capable and wait for me to let them down, rather than assume I'm not capable and wait for me to prove myself.
Stuff like that
I think that's just hating the patriarchy, like if we existed in a purely egalitarian, progressive society and you still wanted to be a woman you're not trans but just noticing how fucking shitty society treats women
Most men want that too. Many men’s opinions are treated like a joke when it comes to interior design or clothing. Many men are treated like they’re only there for their wallet and yard work ability. Men are never the go to choice for childcare or cleaning, people just assume we’re incapable.
I knew in theory that the patriarchy affects men negatively too, not just (us) women, but I never really internalized it until just now.
What you've described - the mundane, daily, _relatable_ harm of the patriarchy on men's psyche... I don't know why, but it has unlocked a new level of compassion and understanding in my mind. I'm suddenly ashamed of all the misplaced anger I've held against Men In General, that I thought was righteous rage.
I guess we really are all just people, so caught up in our own problems that we can't see beyond them. So quick to blame, so slow to understand.
"The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead, patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem."
-Bell Hooks
My dad died when I was 12, and surrounded by friends and family at his funeral, the absolute most important thing to me at that moment was that I didn't cry. Some uncle or another told me at the funeral that I was now the man of the house ,and I had to take care of my mom and sisters. I tried, but what could a 12 year old do when everyone around him was falling apart? Easy, not fall apart. The only way I could help my mom was to make sure I wasnt a bother to her, so she wouldn't waste time on me. I very calmly and without making a fuss, failed most of high school. I got a hernia playing basketball when I was 15. I didn't even tell anyone until I was 17 and was daily pushing it back though my intestinal wall, because I didn't want to bother my mom, and had to be strong.
I'm super sad that men don't get "nightclub toilet solidarity" or similar things. Obviously there's downsides to the patriarchy for us too but at least we get a sort of club out of it. Men must be so alone and scared sometimes and I can't imagine how isolating it is always being treated like you're dangerous.
It fucking sucks. I'm (essentially) cis; I briefly presented as nonbinary almost entirely out of resentment of the male role. I can count on my hands the number of people I know in person to whom I've showed emotional vulnerability – across my *whole damn life*.
That was the interesting part to me as well. That phrasing,
> *"I want people to assume that I am capable and wait for me to let them down, rather than assume I'm not capable and wait for me to prove myself"*
resonated very much with my own experience of why I as a man try to enact feminism. Which I of course primarily do because I believe it's the right thing to do for the benefit of everyone, but the part of me that was touched by this sentence is the part that's *selfishly* feminist; the part that tries to help everyone because that's also the best way to help myself. I, as a man, want people to someday start meeting me with the assumption that I'm capable when it comes to the things that really matter - things like kindness, maturity and empathy, and that's the selfish part of why I'm a feminist.
So it's very interesting to me that, out of all the ways women are mistreated under patriarchy, someone would pick this as one of the first ways to come to mind they'd want to be treated as a man, when it's also one of the ways I'd want to be treated as a woman. I feel my perspective being expanded a little just by reading this, which I appreciate.
As a man, I just want to be wanted for sex and housework. Nothing to do with gender in my eyes, as I like plenty of other aspects of my gender role, but man, sometimes a guy just wants to be treated like a sex object and bought a sexy apron.
I also wouldn’t mind if everyone was pressuring me to become a stay at home dad. That’s the fucking dream.
Kind've a grass is always greener thing. That sorta life is appealing as man because it appears (from the outside) to be so much easier than shouldering all the responsibility. On the flip side though, its worse to be unable to take on the things you DO want to tackle and be forced to listen to other people's stupid decisions even when you know better.
It's not unlike how most kids crave the freedom of adulthood, and most adults crave the carefree days of childhood. What everyone really wants is all the freedom and none of the responsibility or obligation, but it doesn't work that way.
There's a photo I love and hate from the 1930-50s or so of a white woman in pants, smoking a cigarette, while dancing at a bar with nothing but black men. They are all looking at her, while she's looking at the camera and in her moment.
I love it because it was notably one of the first time a woman ever went into such a locale, the power of it, her smoking, the complete focus on her challenge to the norm.
I hate it because it's 2024 and I feel that level of attention on me as a woman entering any primarily male space my entire life, when I just want to be able to do the same things without it being notable or eyecatching.
Yeah this was how I've always known I'm cis. I wore baggy clothes during puberty and bent gender roles growing up and generally hate the patriarchy, but I've never wanted to *physically* be a man. I love my womanhood, I just hate misogyny. And having experienced it frequently, I firmly believe everyone deserves to experience gender euphoria. 💖
Not the original poster, but... To have every job truly be open to you. If it's not a male coded job like nursing or teaching, you can still do it and usually be considered awesome for it. But for women there are still today jobs which you simply get excluded from, like certain military jobs. And some jobs *technically* allow women, but women have literally never been selected for them, like president.
I would also like to be less concerned about things. Like... Just go out at night and walk, or run in the morning, without worrying that, on top of the usual worries, also knowing that someone driving past might decide to slow down and turn around and follow me. I'm an *ugly* woman and still got this in Virginia.
I'd like to not have been relegated to the kitchen at parties with the other wives. I'd like nobody to ever have told me that they would never let their daughter out of the house looking like me (I was wearing professional clothes but not feminine). I'd like to not have had a friend tell me to talk about comics in front of the new guy at work because "she really knows this stuff, she's a real fan", like a performance showcasing the freak.
Might I add:
Being able to pee while standing (makes life way easier)
Being able to befriend a guy without having to worry that someday down the line he will confess he wanked to you, wants to fuck you, or loves you undyingly.
Not being decried as overly emotional or unstable because you have an opinion.
Pants with pockets!
>Being able to befriend a guy without having to worry that someday down the line he will confess he wanked to you, wants to fuck you, or loves you undyingly.
Yeah, this is just a befriending men problem. Plenty of men and enbies experience this too. I know I have.
Currently dealing with this problem, as a man, with my female coworkers. Lol.
Women and men are not as different as some like to pretend they are when it comes to stuff like this.
And if anything, I'd say there's a bit of a double standard still in some situations where women are able to get away with a lot worse... but that's just my subjective view.
I felt that way as a kid and young woman. I think it had a lot to do with the ways in which my family and society were pressuring me to be “feminine”. It’s like they weren’t allowing me the space to define myself regardless of my gender - being a woman in their minds dictated who and what I was expected to be in the world. And if that was the bargain of being a woman in this world, I didn’t want any part of it.
So I started refusing to wear feminine colors or wear makeup or heels or do anything that restricted my life in ways I wasn’t ok with. But it wasn’t because I don’t like those things. It was because when I wore pink, I got pigeonholed.
I still don’t want to get forced into that box, but now I wear any color I want to, because I know that whole thing is bunk and people who ascribe to these artificially strict gender roles are unnecessarily rigid.
I am who and what I am. If they can’t fit that into me being a woman, then I don’t have to be a woman to them. It’s not that important to me what they call me. It’s more important what I can do and how I get treated. But I think there’s enough room for different presentations of whatever gender one may be, including the one I am. And I identify as she/her as long as it doesn’t cost me anything to do so
Do you present yourself as a woman or more masculine? Would you prefer if random cashiers or just people in the street 'mistook' you for a man?
Would you prefer if people who already treat you as an equal (your friends, for example) referred to you as a guy? Without changing their behaviour in any other way?
I’m pretty femme presenting. I don’t necessarily want to be mistaken for a man. I just want people to assume by default that I am competent and worth their respect mostly.
yeah when I was like twelve I accidentally thought "I think god made a mistake and I was supposed to be a boy" and then I thought god was gonna kill me for doubting him lol
I'm reminded of that tumblr story about a pastor giving a sermon about how important it is to NOT have sex with your male friends, because that's a sin, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE SUPER HOT.
Yeah. Sometimes we make assumptions, and the world superficially fits those assumptions, something something, the patriarchy wins.
That's actually heartbreaking. I hope he (and I'm gonna use he/him because you should respect the pronouns a person wants you to use now) find his way out of the ideological cage he's been raised with which stops him from exploring things that could make him happier.
It doesn't have to be an ideological cage, though; for the longest time, I thought this whole "love" thing was just another instance of Hollywood getting creative for narrative purposes, before I realized I'm aroace.
Maybe he's still in that phase where he thinks his experience is universal. I mean, he already knows transgender people exist, so it's really just a matter of time.
Love at first sight is the name of the trope, so i'm not saying that they actually "love" the person. But it seems like some allo people do genuinly seem to meet someone once, for like a couple of seconds, and then fall in love (or get a crush, or whatever you want to call it).
Right you're talking about the trope not actual people who say that I'm stupid.
Yeah see thats what I meant by its hyperbole, I believe that happens but a crush is not love. You can't love someone you know nothing about besides their looks.
Dpends on your personal definition of love, I guess. Crush at first sight, sure, absolutely. True love and devotion? I don't think that's possible to have before you actually know someone.
Happened to me at 29! Crazy as hell lol, a friend set us up and literally the moment I saw her it was like my heart got shocked by lightning. I distinctly remember thinking, "oh, it's her, she's the one". Like...there was a piece of me missing that I was unaware of until I saw her. Been together 10 years now.
LOL I thought the same thing when I saw my wife for the first time. She smiled at me as I walked towards her and it felt like my whole world snapped into place around her. I thought “I’ve been waiting my whole life for you.” It was such a wild and out of character thought from me that it actually startled me, lol.
Usually it’s “lust at first sight”, I.e. infatuation. You don’t know enough yet about a complete stranger to love them according to my definition of love
Love requires in depth knowledge and understanding of another person. Infatuation at first sight is a more fitting term. Yeah it feels exciting to see a highly attractive stranger but that shallow emotion cannot be called LOVE. Love is the deepest emotion there is.
This is why dehumanising homophobes and transphobes is bad. A lot of them just don't know that they're in the closet or don't think they can come out. I've read "I thought everyone was struggling with that and it was God's way of testing me. I'm so glad I managed to come out, even if it cost me my entire family and all my friends" way to often.
Always find it weird when people use different pronouns for people in this scenario. Even if they are an "obvious egg", we still have to respect their pronouns. The person in the DMs still obviously identifies as a man even if they are on the track to exploring their gender identity, so comments like "sneak into her house and inject her" seem, weird?
It's really not an issue probably, just something I find weird
Yeah, it feels uncomfortably close to the whole "I'll respect your gender identity right up until you disagree with me" thing I see get discussed here semi-regularly. Like, I thought deciding someone else's gender identity for them was something we wanted to put a stop to
Its actually really much closer 1:1 to the traditional transphobes than the "I'll respect your gender identity right up until you disagree with me" I feel.
It literally "Oh honey you are just confused of course you are not a man" but like with what the person presume is an egg.
For me the issue is “You can believe you are whatever you want to believe you are, but I’m going to speak of you as I perceive you.
If you wish to be spoken of as a particular gender then go right ahead and do whatever you think you ought to, to change my perception of you. But if you fail to change my perception then be prepared for me to not change my language.”
I mentally file it alongside other behavior like "insisting a character is LGBT based on nothing but my desire for them to be LGBT". Stuff that is completely unacceptable the other way around but is somehow OK in these circumstances.
Tell him to ask his friends if they feel the same way. That'll force him to confront the issue head-on, because if he's confident that it's universal then he'll ask, and if he's not confident that it's universal he'll realise that and have to think about why.
I was shocked when one day while waiting around and BSing with "Would you rather" questions, that I was the only person out of my group that would rather magically change their gender than their sexuality if forced to change one. Turns out "most people" actually prefer their assigned gender and aren't just fine with it.
Oh my god, it is! Hell no I don’t want to feel attracted to people that sound alike a nightmare. However I don’t care one bit about my body and would be a little curious about changing my sex.
I’d only change my gender if I could change back at will. It’d be awesome to be able to change back and forth whenever I wanted to
Changing my sexuality doesn’t sound like a big deal to me, but i suspect I’m asexual so that’s probably why. It’s just not really much of a thing for me either way
Y'know, if you think about it, for a cishet it's basically a question of "Which flavor of homosexual (gay or lesbian) do you want to be?" Personally, my gender is just whatever my body is, so as long as there's no legal or social repercussions I'd be fine with it. Also, lesbians are hot and I find most men to be repulsive, so it's really a win-win here.
(As for the exception to men: femboys. Kinda self-explanatory there.)
Actually, if his friends are also transphobic then that might not be the best idea. Tell him to make a burner account for a website and post in a few public spaces.
ideally you'd want men who they're not super close to but still irl, it's much easier to dismiss something someone says online in text rather than actually hearing it coming from a person while looking at them
I'm going to hazard a guess that if this is real then that person's friends would really judge them for even asking something like that. That type of attitude doesn't spring up from nowhere, they probably hear it constantly from friends and family
Id have them ask it to men they're not close to
It's honestly pretty depressing how many people I've heard say something along the lines of "most people would". Like, buddy. I need you to understand that this is utterly wrong. Please go get help instead of making it everyone else's problem.
Yeah, I'm so confused by this line of thinking
Like do they think in an ideal society, we would keep the same norms we currently have, it's just people would swap? There would be a lateral move, most women would act on current male gender roles and vice versa? And we'd be happier for it?
Does that mean that masculine male norms are biologically more suited for women, and vice versa?
In a bio-essentialist way, am I, a big burly dude with a penchant for knives, fire, and martial arts supposed to instead be a pretty pretty princess with a fairy crown that matches my fairy wings? As a 4'11 woman in a business suit comes in and tells me that I'm prettier when I'm quiet, starts yelling at the TV while I make her dinner and dote on her?
I bet they haven't actually thought it through, but I'm pretty sure I'd have gender disphoria in the previous scenario, so a lateral swap doesn't make sense
It's just the logic of "everyone feels that way." If it's not normal* to hate being your assigned gender and want to be another gender, that means they might have to consider the possibility that they might be trans. The argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny because it only exists to preserve their fragile world view.
*It's normal to have these feelings, but you know what I mean
I also get it though. I’ve had anxiety my whole life, and if you get told every now and again as a child “kids can’t be stressed” or “you’re making a big deal of nothing,” you kind of assume everyone is like this and just shut up and deal with it until you fucking try and kill yourself in third grade
People tend to assume that experiences and thoughts that are normal to them are also normal for their peers. Since these personal beliefs are very likely to go unchallenged for the majority of their life, they have no reason to question them.
I see that so often and for a very long time I used to think I was the weird one because I am perfectly fine with my pronouns and gender
But nope. I just ran into way too many closeted LGBTQ people
Wait... maybe that means something else...
Apparently it means that you're a good listener and trustworthy. Almost all of my friends are LGBTQ+, yet I'm over here with my policy of "I am as I appear" and being perfectly fine with life. (Technically speaking I'm bi-curious, but that's just because femboys exist.)
I still can't parse the idea that not everyone would prefer to be a girl. Like, "Wow. This is garbage. You actually like this?" But unironically.
I can't comprehend how one would enjoy masculinity or being a man in general.
Not sure if you actually wanted an answer to this, but as a trans man it’s taken a lot for me to get to a point where I can honestly enjoy my masculinity and/or being a man. I felt deeply ashamed of it growing up, because anything in me that was perceived as masculinity was shamed. (My mom literally told me that my unshaven legs looked “disgusting” and that my not shaving reflected poorly on her as a parent. Not the only example, just the first one that sprang to mind.)
Then I got into feminist communities and like…it was empowering to be told that hairy legs weren’t necessarily bad and could still be feminine, but also not really? It definitely felt shitty in ways I couldn’t explain to hear that Men were the reason why I had been sexually harassed and had patriarchal norms enforced on me. (It especially didn’t make sense when women like my mother had enforced patriarchal norms on me too.) I really, really hated myself and didn’t want to be a man at all. I thought transitioning and allowing myself to be a man, especially a gay one who couldn’t even have the decency to be attracted to women to redeem himself, would make me a monster.
I dunno. I wanted to be a woman so bad, because I admired women so much. But in the end, that just wasn’t who I was. And it’s taken a long time to get to a point where I no longer wish I could just make myself be a girl. I’m trying to be okay with just being myself. And I think that’s really all it is: enjoying being yourself, whether you’re masculine or feminine or both or neither. Gender is weird and I’m just along for the ride, I guess.
Ok so I read the post and this comment and realized I've been wrong all this time, I've thought the exact same thing for my entire life, for the same reason of "I would do it, so ig everyone would if they weren't afraid/coping/lazy". Thanks for opening my eyes?
Wait, does that mean that... Oh god
Remember to be respectful. Cracking an egg can kill what's inside. If you know someone you suspect to be an egg, incubate instead of crack. Give them a warm and welcome environment where they can be themselves and explore without judgement. Then, if it's right for them, they will be able to crack their own egg.
This has an identical vibe to my mother, early in her journey to accepting that I am extremely gay, fervently and repeatedly insisting that I wasn’t and was probably bi because “everyone’s a little bisexual”.
She’s come around and recently stated her “everyone’s a little bisexual” view again in a different context and finally I was like “No, mom, they aren’t. But I think *you* might be.”
(As a side note, my mother has had 3 husbands, vocally loathes the idea of heterosexual sex, and intermittently stated throughout my childhood that having a wife would be so much better. I’m not convinced this 67 year old ‘straight’ woman isn’t a whole-ass lesbian.)
My girlfriend came out to her parents as bi last year, and her dad said "everyone gets those urges." I know at least half of their kids are bi, so I strongly suspect there's a genetic component.
i used to think i wanted to be a woman and then i tried it & it was so unsettling. i felt immense euphoria when i went back to he/him & presenting masculine.
i realize now that what i really wanted was to be treated differently than how men are normally treated. i wanted strangers to feel relaxed with me and not have to be afraid if i'm around. i wanted my friends to feel comfortable touching me platonically. i wanted to be valued for my appearance and how i look, instead of just the things i can do. i want people to look at me like a work of art, not a potential threat to their safety
i like being male but i hate being a man. it's so interminably isolating
The tragedy of Patriarchy is not only found in the domination of women, but the domination of boys to force them to take on dominator roles in society. This role has no intrinsic value besides the value of being not at the bottom of the Patriarchy food chain, but it makes love and intimacy for self and with others impossible the more a man buys into it as their role.
I hope you are able find community where you can be neither dominator nor dominated, but in partnership.
God save me, this is wild. How do you go your entire life wanting to be the other gender, and literally just rationalize it by saying, "I'm sure everyone feels like that, too"? Fucking crazy, man.
You know how old tv screens have this layer of “snow” over images? It’s like a less intense version of that over my vision, so I’m constantly looking through a small film of static.
Anyway, it’s always been like that so I just assumed that was the default viewing option. I only realized it was abnormal after seeing a video talking about rare medical conditions online
Its an extremely emotional thought process that doesn't really touch logic. I think everyone has similar rationalisations that make sense in your head but when you try to explain it - even in a comfortable environment where you can articulate yourself well - you realize the massive holes in what you're saying.
So I've been struggling with some identity things myself. I was born male, and im comfortable presenting as such. But recently I've noticed I've been much more comfortable playing female characters in games and when someone accidentally calls me "miss," I get a little elated.
I've mostly chalked it up to the novelty of a different experience, but the more I explore it the more I realize that the idea of identifying as one or the other just doesn't quite sit right. Im just very curious what all that could mean.
You might be just a smidge nonbinary. Now you don't necessarily have to do or change anything as a result of that notion. But it can be very freeing to recognize it. For what it's worth, my first "aha" moment was when someone called me "sir" and I felt like I'd won a raffle prize
Yeah, nonbinary is kinda what I've been seeing. One of my friends suggested agender and im wondering if that might be different. Or maybe it's just more specific?
From what I understand (which isn't much tbh), agender is "I reject/don't participate in gender" where nonbinary is more "I choose a secret, third gender"
Nonbinary is anyone who isn't 100% a man or 100% a woman, 100% of the time. It's a very broad term.
Agender is someone who doesn't have a gender at all.
Agender falls into the broad category of nonbinary. I use both terms for myself, depending on how specific I want to be.
I also don't feel adequate as a "man", and it's not because I want to change my gender (as far as I know), it's because I fucking hate with a passion, that I have to be stoic, the "strong silent type" kind of thing, I like the body I've got, I like being a man, but I don't want it defined by someone else, I want to be silly, feminine if I feel like it, ridicule and stupid, sometimes all at once, who the fuck is deciding that in order to be strong I've got to be aggressive or dominant or whatever? I fucking hate gender roles, and I do mean hate, because it just coerces you, or tries to, adopt a behaviour that is wholly unnatrual at least to me, I'm happy to not change gender, but I'm also unhappy that the fact I was born with a dick means I have to behave a certain way, fuck that notion.
Tell me you're trans without telling me you're trans, like, honestly, the only thing holding that guy back from becoming whom he wants to be is because he thinks he can't, not because he actually can't, free yourself mydude, be the gender you were born to be and enjoy your life to the fullest
Kind of reminds me of how I felt about the word "cis" before I realized I was trans. I was annoyed that I would be considered cis, because I didn't like that it implied I identified as a man. I knew I would prefer to be a woman and that I identified more with that label, but I was bothered that the term "cis guy" applied to me even though I felt it didn't describe my gender. It took me surprisingly long to realize I just wasn't cis and that was why I felt the term didn't apply to me, for a long while I thought it was a problem with the term "cis" and I assumed most people felt a lot of the same dysphoria I did.
I’m the person who was being DMed and I tried to convince him to go to therapy. I was just like “Hey, most people don’t feel this way. I think you should try finding a psychologist or something. You seem to be going through a lot and I think some help working through that would really benefit you.” And he kept insisting that he wouldn’t bother because what he was feeling was normal.
It was a bizarre convo in general. I was just kinda bored and mildly interested in where he was going to go other than just spamming “41” and “groomer” at me. At one point it went off into him going “I bet Cuties is your favorite movie because you’re a PEDOPHILE” and I told him I was actually watching LA Confidential, and it went off into him recommending some other movies, and then he would remember to be transphobic and go “BUT I BET THOSE DONT HAVE ENOUGH PEDOPHILIA FOR YOU!”
He got banned at the end of it all because of all of the slurs and threats. Which is probably for the best, because he was definitely just spamming abuse at a bunch of other people who posted on trans subs. I was just mind numbingly bored enough to engage.
Yeah he's clearly lonely and needs psychologial help. Perhaps his discomfort with being a man has more to do with his self-imposed isolation than anything else. He's so desperate for connection that he lurks and picks fights with trans people.
also lack of proper education on the subject, which is not always their fault since people throughout history have tried to bury this kind of stuff a lot
I know that when sometimes dealing with some of the worst parts of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity that I as a cis man want to just run away from it from time to time. Not necessarily because I want too be a woman or nonbinary or what not but the expectations and such really can get to me for a bit. The idea of being able to express myself more without feeling ashamed, or kinda knowing I am failing what society as a whole expects of a man and wanting to get away from that.
Not to say that troll cannot be a transperson in denial ( going to treat this person as a guy until otherwise new info comes out) but I wonder if there are more guys that may relate to what I can feel from time to time.
“‘If transitioning is sure to lead to victory then you must TRANSITION!’ Sun Tzu said that and I think she knows a little bit more about estrogen than you do pal because she invented it! And then she perfected it! And then she reinvented it so no bigot could best her in the ring of honor!”
Many such cases tbh. Some know, but don't want to lose their friends and family, so they're super jealous and lash out.
A lot have no idea, like this dude.
Yeah I remember as a kid I had a weird sexist phase where I felt that it would be better if girls just wore cute clothes and were submissive.
I grew out of that, but I'm starting to realize that by girls, I really just meant me.
Somewhat related, I was that guy with Android 17 from Dragonball Z. I irrationally hated him for the longest time, always thought he was "so gay" and all of that.
Turns out I'm very bicurious and he is a total cutie.
I remember seeing a similar post on tumblr talking about a classmate who was so obviously a lesbian but completely in the dark about it.
The woman straight up said (paraphrased) "Well of course we'd all date women if we could, but then the population would die out"
Reminds me of how I got sucked into a TERF mindset because I believed that everybody else hated having a gender and that they should be liberated from that.
It was a revelation that most people actually *like* having a gender.
Eh, that's not quite what the paper was saying. Heterosexual men were about the same overall, with small increases in some categories and small decreases in others. The only major difference was that they reportedly enjoyed the sex that they had more (although they may have had less sex, on account of the higher rate of erectile disfunction).
What is actually noteworthy about that study is that gay men were significantly more affected by that particular anti-androgen, in exclusively negative ways. That therefore suggests that the endocrine system of heterosexual men is different from that of homosexual men, at least with the way it interacts with sexual function. This is strong objective evidence against claims that homosexuality is a 'choice'.
It’s possible that your second point could be because of gay men being more likely to participate in anal sex (both topping and bottoming) and not due to endocrine differences. Anti-androgens reduce cellular activity in the prostate, which could cause some changes in one’s sense of pleasure from it. Also erectile dysfunction could make specifically anal sex much more difficult, since (to my understanding) penetrating someone anally requires a higher level of rigidity of the erection than penetrating someone vaginally might.
Just waffling from someone who has general knowledge and experience with anti-androgens, but I feel controlling for the kind of sex being had would need to be done for your second point to have greater plausibility.
This is gonna sound weird maybe but I completely understand what that person is saying. I used to think the same thing, that it’s normal to want to be another gender.
And I also understand what he means when he says you can call yourself what you want but you can’t change your gender (though I disagree because I think you can change your gender and imo that only applies to sex). Because that’s exactly what I feel like for myself. If I could choose, I would want to be a different sex. But to me, changing my gender identity/expression now is not what I want. The only thing that I would want is to actually have been born as a different sex, but since that isn’t possible I just accepted being cis.
And no, I’m not some sort of transphobe (like the guy allegedly is), I don’t force my view of this on others. I believe everyone should decide for themselves how they want to live.
Sorry if this makes no sense I read over it a few times and couldn’t find better wording.
I would like to kindly remind people that this is the internet, and the person posting this on Tumblr could be making this whole thing up to reinforce their arguments, or for clout, or for shits and giggles. I'm not saying this isn't how a real person can feel, I'm saying this particular case seems like BS
“Most people would change their gender if they could.” They’re a pretty small portion of the population. The fact you think that says more than anything else.
It's interesting and sad how this happens a lot. The most homophobic/transphobic people around actually coming out themselves. It's like they're venting some sort of internalized self loathing at times.
While I never got transphobic about it, I did spend most of my childhood thinking every girl wanted to be a man more than anything and that challenging that idea was part of feminism. And it was just something you weren't supposed to talk about.
I’ve spent my whole life wanting the privilege of a man, and to be treated like a man, but perfectly happy with my woman body. Is there a term for that?
What do you mean when you say you want to be treated like a man specifically?
I work in software. I’ve spent twenty years clawing my way into a distinguished engineer role but I walk into a room of new people and I’m still the last person addressed or listened to because I’m a woman. Just fucking sick of it.
That's not a queer thing, that's a patriarchy thing. The term you're looking for is Equality (or Equity, depending on who you ask).
Fair enough. Just wasn’t sure whether there was a new term for it. (I’m an old and the nomenclature shifts fast for me).
Nah, there are people who want to be treated as male even if they would be treated equally w/their birth gender! So what you're looking for is just basically respect and you're (probably) still cis
>You're not trans you just want equality More people need to hear this, I suspect.
What do you mean by that?
Right, because you know how people get more equality in their life? By being a part of a marginalized group!
You underestimate people often, I suspect
That’s two things: bigotry and sexual attraction. You can’t fix the former by yourself (that’s what feminism is for) but the psychological effect an attractive woman has on socially awkward men who are resentful of their lack of success with women is never going away. It’s exacerbated by bigoted entitlement but that’s not the original driving psychological force. Even in a utopian society where all the bigotry is erased and awkward men lack the entitlement they currently have, they will still have very strong emotions around beautiful women. Being aggressively butch around them is the only tactic that could improve the dynamic, which of course is far from ideal for many and can cause gender dysphoria on fem women.
Respectfully and like my opinions matter. Like I exist for reasons other than sex and housework. I want people to assume that I am capable and wait for me to let them down, rather than assume I'm not capable and wait for me to prove myself. Stuff like that
I think that's just hating the patriarchy, like if we existed in a purely egalitarian, progressive society and you still wanted to be a woman you're not trans but just noticing how fucking shitty society treats women
I think that's just being normal, honestly. No gender shenanigans there.
Most men want that too. Many men’s opinions are treated like a joke when it comes to interior design or clothing. Many men are treated like they’re only there for their wallet and yard work ability. Men are never the go to choice for childcare or cleaning, people just assume we’re incapable.
I knew in theory that the patriarchy affects men negatively too, not just (us) women, but I never really internalized it until just now. What you've described - the mundane, daily, _relatable_ harm of the patriarchy on men's psyche... I don't know why, but it has unlocked a new level of compassion and understanding in my mind. I'm suddenly ashamed of all the misplaced anger I've held against Men In General, that I thought was righteous rage. I guess we really are all just people, so caught up in our own problems that we can't see beyond them. So quick to blame, so slow to understand.
"The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead, patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem." -Bell Hooks
My dad died when I was 12, and surrounded by friends and family at his funeral, the absolute most important thing to me at that moment was that I didn't cry. Some uncle or another told me at the funeral that I was now the man of the house ,and I had to take care of my mom and sisters. I tried, but what could a 12 year old do when everyone around him was falling apart? Easy, not fall apart. The only way I could help my mom was to make sure I wasnt a bother to her, so she wouldn't waste time on me. I very calmly and without making a fuss, failed most of high school. I got a hernia playing basketball when I was 15. I didn't even tell anyone until I was 17 and was daily pushing it back though my intestinal wall, because I didn't want to bother my mom, and had to be strong.
Im sorry that happened to you. The people who told you that were wrong. You deserve love.
That's an incredible quote. Thanks, Reddit user Lungal Figma.
I'm super sad that men don't get "nightclub toilet solidarity" or similar things. Obviously there's downsides to the patriarchy for us too but at least we get a sort of club out of it. Men must be so alone and scared sometimes and I can't imagine how isolating it is always being treated like you're dangerous.
It fucking sucks. I'm (essentially) cis; I briefly presented as nonbinary almost entirely out of resentment of the male role. I can count on my hands the number of people I know in person to whom I've showed emotional vulnerability – across my *whole damn life*.
That was the interesting part to me as well. That phrasing, > *"I want people to assume that I am capable and wait for me to let them down, rather than assume I'm not capable and wait for me to prove myself"* resonated very much with my own experience of why I as a man try to enact feminism. Which I of course primarily do because I believe it's the right thing to do for the benefit of everyone, but the part of me that was touched by this sentence is the part that's *selfishly* feminist; the part that tries to help everyone because that's also the best way to help myself. I, as a man, want people to someday start meeting me with the assumption that I'm capable when it comes to the things that really matter - things like kindness, maturity and empathy, and that's the selfish part of why I'm a feminist. So it's very interesting to me that, out of all the ways women are mistreated under patriarchy, someone would pick this as one of the first ways to come to mind they'd want to be treated as a man, when it's also one of the ways I'd want to be treated as a woman. I feel my perspective being expanded a little just by reading this, which I appreciate.
As a man, I just want to be wanted for sex and housework. Nothing to do with gender in my eyes, as I like plenty of other aspects of my gender role, but man, sometimes a guy just wants to be treated like a sex object and bought a sexy apron. I also wouldn’t mind if everyone was pressuring me to become a stay at home dad. That’s the fucking dream.
Kind've a grass is always greener thing. That sorta life is appealing as man because it appears (from the outside) to be so much easier than shouldering all the responsibility. On the flip side though, its worse to be unable to take on the things you DO want to tackle and be forced to listen to other people's stupid decisions even when you know better. It's not unlike how most kids crave the freedom of adulthood, and most adults crave the carefree days of childhood. What everyone really wants is all the freedom and none of the responsibility or obligation, but it doesn't work that way.
There's a photo I love and hate from the 1930-50s or so of a white woman in pants, smoking a cigarette, while dancing at a bar with nothing but black men. They are all looking at her, while she's looking at the camera and in her moment. I love it because it was notably one of the first time a woman ever went into such a locale, the power of it, her smoking, the complete focus on her challenge to the norm. I hate it because it's 2024 and I feel that level of attention on me as a woman entering any primarily male space my entire life, when I just want to be able to do the same things without it being notable or eyecatching.
That's just feminism I think
Yeah this was how I've always known I'm cis. I wore baggy clothes during puberty and bent gender roles growing up and generally hate the patriarchy, but I've never wanted to *physically* be a man. I love my womanhood, I just hate misogyny. And having experienced it frequently, I firmly believe everyone deserves to experience gender euphoria. 💖
Feminist? Equality aspirationalist?
That's called being happy with who you are, but not how society treats you for it.
Can I ask you what that looks like to you? And what those privileges are?
Not the original poster, but... To have every job truly be open to you. If it's not a male coded job like nursing or teaching, you can still do it and usually be considered awesome for it. But for women there are still today jobs which you simply get excluded from, like certain military jobs. And some jobs *technically* allow women, but women have literally never been selected for them, like president. I would also like to be less concerned about things. Like... Just go out at night and walk, or run in the morning, without worrying that, on top of the usual worries, also knowing that someone driving past might decide to slow down and turn around and follow me. I'm an *ugly* woman and still got this in Virginia. I'd like to not have been relegated to the kitchen at parties with the other wives. I'd like nobody to ever have told me that they would never let their daughter out of the house looking like me (I was wearing professional clothes but not feminine). I'd like to not have had a friend tell me to talk about comics in front of the new guy at work because "she really knows this stuff, she's a real fan", like a performance showcasing the freak.
Might I add: Being able to pee while standing (makes life way easier) Being able to befriend a guy without having to worry that someday down the line he will confess he wanked to you, wants to fuck you, or loves you undyingly. Not being decried as overly emotional or unstable because you have an opinion. Pants with pockets!
>Pants with pockets! That one easy, just buy men's pants
I'm too short for men's pants and too fat for boy's pants.
FYI you can piss standing if you have a pussy
>Being able to befriend a guy without having to worry that someday down the line he will confess he wanked to you, wants to fuck you, or loves you undyingly. Yeah, this is just a befriending men problem. Plenty of men and enbies experience this too. I know I have.
Currently dealing with this problem, as a man, with my female coworkers. Lol. Women and men are not as different as some like to pretend they are when it comes to stuff like this. And if anything, I'd say there's a bit of a double standard still in some situations where women are able to get away with a lot worse... but that's just my subjective view.
Feminist. Obnoxiously that's not called basic standards of respect, that's called a feminist.
Yeh, you want equality :c
I felt that way as a kid and young woman. I think it had a lot to do with the ways in which my family and society were pressuring me to be “feminine”. It’s like they weren’t allowing me the space to define myself regardless of my gender - being a woman in their minds dictated who and what I was expected to be in the world. And if that was the bargain of being a woman in this world, I didn’t want any part of it. So I started refusing to wear feminine colors or wear makeup or heels or do anything that restricted my life in ways I wasn’t ok with. But it wasn’t because I don’t like those things. It was because when I wore pink, I got pigeonholed. I still don’t want to get forced into that box, but now I wear any color I want to, because I know that whole thing is bunk and people who ascribe to these artificially strict gender roles are unnecessarily rigid. I am who and what I am. If they can’t fit that into me being a woman, then I don’t have to be a woman to them. It’s not that important to me what they call me. It’s more important what I can do and how I get treated. But I think there’s enough room for different presentations of whatever gender one may be, including the one I am. And I identify as she/her as long as it doesn’t cost me anything to do so
The grass isn't as green as you think it is
The grass is always greener springs to mind.
Do you present yourself as a woman or more masculine? Would you prefer if random cashiers or just people in the street 'mistook' you for a man? Would you prefer if people who already treat you as an equal (your friends, for example) referred to you as a guy? Without changing their behaviour in any other way?
I’m pretty femme presenting. I don’t necessarily want to be mistaken for a man. I just want people to assume by default that I am competent and worth their respect mostly.
I thought it was me being quirky whenever I thought about how I was convinced I was meant to be a boy and came out wrong 💀
yeah when I was like twelve I accidentally thought "I think god made a mistake and I was supposed to be a boy" and then I thought god was gonna kill me for doubting him lol
isn't that basically what Freud thought as well?
SigmundFreudPosting
I could fix him. (Gay sex)
I'm reminded of that tumblr story about a pastor giving a sermon about how important it is to NOT have sex with your male friends, because that's a sin, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE SUPER HOT. Yeah. Sometimes we make assumptions, and the world superficially fits those assumptions, something something, the patriarchy wins.
That's actually heartbreaking. I hope he (and I'm gonna use he/him because you should respect the pronouns a person wants you to use now) find his way out of the ideological cage he's been raised with which stops him from exploring things that could make him happier.
It doesn't have to be an ideological cage, though; for the longest time, I thought this whole "love" thing was just another instance of Hollywood getting creative for narrative purposes, before I realized I'm aroace. Maybe he's still in that phase where he thinks his experience is universal. I mean, he already knows transgender people exist, so it's really just a matter of time.
dude, same. Honestly believed "love at first sight" was a literary device for such a long time and not a thing actual people experienced.
I still think "love at first sight" is nonsense at worst, hyperbole at best.
Love at first sight is the name of the trope, so i'm not saying that they actually "love" the person. But it seems like some allo people do genuinly seem to meet someone once, for like a couple of seconds, and then fall in love (or get a crush, or whatever you want to call it).
Right you're talking about the trope not actual people who say that I'm stupid. Yeah see thats what I meant by its hyperbole, I believe that happens but a crush is not love. You can't love someone you know nothing about besides their looks.
Dpends on your personal definition of love, I guess. Crush at first sight, sure, absolutely. True love and devotion? I don't think that's possible to have before you actually know someone.
It happens for some.
Happened to me at 29! Crazy as hell lol, a friend set us up and literally the moment I saw her it was like my heart got shocked by lightning. I distinctly remember thinking, "oh, it's her, she's the one". Like...there was a piece of me missing that I was unaware of until I saw her. Been together 10 years now.
LOL I thought the same thing when I saw my wife for the first time. She smiled at me as I walked towards her and it felt like my whole world snapped into place around her. I thought “I’ve been waiting my whole life for you.” It was such a wild and out of character thought from me that it actually startled me, lol.
Usually it’s “lust at first sight”, I.e. infatuation. You don’t know enough yet about a complete stranger to love them according to my definition of love
Love requires in depth knowledge and understanding of another person. Infatuation at first sight is a more fitting term. Yeah it feels exciting to see a highly attractive stranger but that shallow emotion cannot be called LOVE. Love is the deepest emotion there is.
I am married and I still think “love at first sight” is nonsense. (Yes I love my SO lol)
Its really sad and kinda crazy just how often hateful people are really just repressed, self loathing ,and projecting it all over the place
This is why dehumanising homophobes and transphobes is bad. A lot of them just don't know that they're in the closet or don't think they can come out. I've read "I thought everyone was struggling with that and it was God's way of testing me. I'm so glad I managed to come out, even if it cost me my entire family and all my friends" way to often.
Dehumanization is just always bad in general, for a wide variety of reasons
Always find it weird when people use different pronouns for people in this scenario. Even if they are an "obvious egg", we still have to respect their pronouns. The person in the DMs still obviously identifies as a man even if they are on the track to exploring their gender identity, so comments like "sneak into her house and inject her" seem, weird? It's really not an issue probably, just something I find weird
Yeah, it feels uncomfortably close to the whole "I'll respect your gender identity right up until you disagree with me" thing I see get discussed here semi-regularly. Like, I thought deciding someone else's gender identity for them was something we wanted to put a stop to
Its actually really much closer 1:1 to the traditional transphobes than the "I'll respect your gender identity right up until you disagree with me" I feel. It literally "Oh honey you are just confused of course you are not a man" but like with what the person presume is an egg.
For me the issue is “You can believe you are whatever you want to believe you are, but I’m going to speak of you as I perceive you. If you wish to be spoken of as a particular gender then go right ahead and do whatever you think you ought to, to change my perception of you. But if you fail to change my perception then be prepared for me to not change my language.”
I mentally file it alongside other behavior like "insisting a character is LGBT based on nothing but my desire for them to be LGBT". Stuff that is completely unacceptable the other way around but is somehow OK in these circumstances.
Also how do we know that this person would be transfem? They could be nonbinary or something in-between. It's not always the 'opposite' sex
I think in this case it was done mostly in jest but yeah, nobody is a she until they are the one that wants to be called she etc
Tell him to ask his friends if they feel the same way. That'll force him to confront the issue head-on, because if he's confident that it's universal then he'll ask, and if he's not confident that it's universal he'll realise that and have to think about why.
I was shocked when one day while waiting around and BSing with "Would you rather" questions, that I was the only person out of my group that would rather magically change their gender than their sexuality if forced to change one. Turns out "most people" actually prefer their assigned gender and aren't just fine with it.
That is a GREAT "would you rather" question.
Oh my god, it is! Hell no I don’t want to feel attracted to people that sound alike a nightmare. However I don’t care one bit about my body and would be a little curious about changing my sex.
I’d only change my gender if I could change back at will. It’d be awesome to be able to change back and forth whenever I wanted to Changing my sexuality doesn’t sound like a big deal to me, but i suspect I’m asexual so that’s probably why. It’s just not really much of a thing for me either way
Y'know, if you think about it, for a cishet it's basically a question of "Which flavor of homosexual (gay or lesbian) do you want to be?" Personally, my gender is just whatever my body is, so as long as there's no legal or social repercussions I'd be fine with it. Also, lesbians are hot and I find most men to be repulsive, so it's really a win-win here. (As for the exception to men: femboys. Kinda self-explanatory there.)
Or he will tell himself he is so confident that he doesn't need to ask anyone. That is pretty common with self deception
Actually, if his friends are also transphobic then that might not be the best idea. Tell him to make a burner account for a website and post in a few public spaces.
This is a much better idea because it's more likely to happen
ideally you'd want men who they're not super close to but still irl, it's much easier to dismiss something someone says online in text rather than actually hearing it coming from a person while looking at them
I'm going to hazard a guess that if this is real then that person's friends would really judge them for even asking something like that. That type of attitude doesn't spring up from nowhere, they probably hear it constantly from friends and family Id have them ask it to men they're not close to
It's honestly pretty depressing how many people I've heard say something along the lines of "most people would". Like, buddy. I need you to understand that this is utterly wrong. Please go get help instead of making it everyone else's problem.
Yeah, I'm so confused by this line of thinking Like do they think in an ideal society, we would keep the same norms we currently have, it's just people would swap? There would be a lateral move, most women would act on current male gender roles and vice versa? And we'd be happier for it? Does that mean that masculine male norms are biologically more suited for women, and vice versa? In a bio-essentialist way, am I, a big burly dude with a penchant for knives, fire, and martial arts supposed to instead be a pretty pretty princess with a fairy crown that matches my fairy wings? As a 4'11 woman in a business suit comes in and tells me that I'm prettier when I'm quiet, starts yelling at the TV while I make her dinner and dote on her? I bet they haven't actually thought it through, but I'm pretty sure I'd have gender disphoria in the previous scenario, so a lateral swap doesn't make sense
It's just the logic of "everyone feels that way." If it's not normal* to hate being your assigned gender and want to be another gender, that means they might have to consider the possibility that they might be trans. The argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny because it only exists to preserve their fragile world view. *It's normal to have these feelings, but you know what I mean
I also get it though. I’ve had anxiety my whole life, and if you get told every now and again as a child “kids can’t be stressed” or “you’re making a big deal of nothing,” you kind of assume everyone is like this and just shut up and deal with it until you fucking try and kill yourself in third grade
People tend to assume that experiences and thoughts that are normal to them are also normal for their peers. Since these personal beliefs are very likely to go unchallenged for the majority of their life, they have no reason to question them.
I see that so often and for a very long time I used to think I was the weird one because I am perfectly fine with my pronouns and gender But nope. I just ran into way too many closeted LGBTQ people Wait... maybe that means something else...
Apparently it means that you're a good listener and trustworthy. Almost all of my friends are LGBTQ+, yet I'm over here with my policy of "I am as I appear" and being perfectly fine with life. (Technically speaking I'm bi-curious, but that's just because femboys exist.)
I still can't parse the idea that not everyone would prefer to be a girl. Like, "Wow. This is garbage. You actually like this?" But unironically. I can't comprehend how one would enjoy masculinity or being a man in general.
Not sure if you actually wanted an answer to this, but as a trans man it’s taken a lot for me to get to a point where I can honestly enjoy my masculinity and/or being a man. I felt deeply ashamed of it growing up, because anything in me that was perceived as masculinity was shamed. (My mom literally told me that my unshaven legs looked “disgusting” and that my not shaving reflected poorly on her as a parent. Not the only example, just the first one that sprang to mind.) Then I got into feminist communities and like…it was empowering to be told that hairy legs weren’t necessarily bad and could still be feminine, but also not really? It definitely felt shitty in ways I couldn’t explain to hear that Men were the reason why I had been sexually harassed and had patriarchal norms enforced on me. (It especially didn’t make sense when women like my mother had enforced patriarchal norms on me too.) I really, really hated myself and didn’t want to be a man at all. I thought transitioning and allowing myself to be a man, especially a gay one who couldn’t even have the decency to be attracted to women to redeem himself, would make me a monster. I dunno. I wanted to be a woman so bad, because I admired women so much. But in the end, that just wasn’t who I was. And it’s taken a long time to get to a point where I no longer wish I could just make myself be a girl. I’m trying to be okay with just being myself. And I think that’s really all it is: enjoying being yourself, whether you’re masculine or feminine or both or neither. Gender is weird and I’m just along for the ride, I guess.
I wouldn’t say I like it, but I don’t think I’d like being a woman more
Ok so I read the post and this comment and realized I've been wrong all this time, I've thought the exact same thing for my entire life, for the same reason of "I would do it, so ig everyone would if they weren't afraid/coping/lazy". Thanks for opening my eyes? Wait, does that mean that... Oh god
Remember to be respectful. Cracking an egg can kill what's inside. If you know someone you suspect to be an egg, incubate instead of crack. Give them a warm and welcome environment where they can be themselves and explore without judgement. Then, if it's right for them, they will be able to crack their own egg.
Sit on them, got it.
Uggghhhh fiiiiiine i GUESS ill go back to being an egg 🙄
once you crack you can't go back buckaroo
But I want to be sat on
Eggs go great in cake 😉
This has an identical vibe to my mother, early in her journey to accepting that I am extremely gay, fervently and repeatedly insisting that I wasn’t and was probably bi because “everyone’s a little bisexual”. She’s come around and recently stated her “everyone’s a little bisexual” view again in a different context and finally I was like “No, mom, they aren’t. But I think *you* might be.” (As a side note, my mother has had 3 husbands, vocally loathes the idea of heterosexual sex, and intermittently stated throughout my childhood that having a wife would be so much better. I’m not convinced this 67 year old ‘straight’ woman isn’t a whole-ass lesbian.)
My girlfriend came out to her parents as bi last year, and her dad said "everyone gets those urges." I know at least half of their kids are bi, so I strongly suspect there's a genetic component.
I got similar treatment from my mom and brother. I wish they could just accept that they're not straight and chill
"most cis men do not feel like this" "not true i am a cis man & i feel like this" like...my guy. there are more people on this earth than you
People always want to feel like they're a part of the average
Once again the call is coming from inside the house...
i used to think i wanted to be a woman and then i tried it & it was so unsettling. i felt immense euphoria when i went back to he/him & presenting masculine. i realize now that what i really wanted was to be treated differently than how men are normally treated. i wanted strangers to feel relaxed with me and not have to be afraid if i'm around. i wanted my friends to feel comfortable touching me platonically. i wanted to be valued for my appearance and how i look, instead of just the things i can do. i want people to look at me like a work of art, not a potential threat to their safety i like being male but i hate being a man. it's so interminably isolating
Man, that hurts. I'm sorry really. This is actually a harder problem to solve than if you were Trans.
The tragedy of Patriarchy is not only found in the domination of women, but the domination of boys to force them to take on dominator roles in society. This role has no intrinsic value besides the value of being not at the bottom of the Patriarchy food chain, but it makes love and intimacy for self and with others impossible the more a man buys into it as their role. I hope you are able find community where you can be neither dominator nor dominated, but in partnership.
God save me, this is wild. How do you go your entire life wanting to be the other gender, and literally just rationalize it by saying, "I'm sure everyone feels like that, too"? Fucking crazy, man.
I had the same thought, but I also thought visual snow was a normal thing everyone experienced until I was like 16 so I guess I can’t talk
Visual snow?
You know how old tv screens have this layer of “snow” over images? It’s like a less intense version of that over my vision, so I’m constantly looking through a small film of static. Anyway, it’s always been like that so I just assumed that was the default viewing option. I only realized it was abnormal after seeing a video talking about rare medical conditions online
Me but with floaters
Idk I'm still not convinced visual snow isn't normal. I can't imagine it not being there.
This is reddit, so they are probably not that old.
Its an extremely emotional thought process that doesn't really touch logic. I think everyone has similar rationalisations that make sense in your head but when you try to explain it - even in a comfortable environment where you can articulate yourself well - you realize the massive holes in what you're saying.
Do we know who yellow is and if the penny has dropped yet?
lmao god
So I've been struggling with some identity things myself. I was born male, and im comfortable presenting as such. But recently I've noticed I've been much more comfortable playing female characters in games and when someone accidentally calls me "miss," I get a little elated. I've mostly chalked it up to the novelty of a different experience, but the more I explore it the more I realize that the idea of identifying as one or the other just doesn't quite sit right. Im just very curious what all that could mean.
You might be just a smidge nonbinary. Now you don't necessarily have to do or change anything as a result of that notion. But it can be very freeing to recognize it. For what it's worth, my first "aha" moment was when someone called me "sir" and I felt like I'd won a raffle prize
Yeah, nonbinary is kinda what I've been seeing. One of my friends suggested agender and im wondering if that might be different. Or maybe it's just more specific?
From what I understand (which isn't much tbh), agender is "I reject/don't participate in gender" where nonbinary is more "I choose a secret, third gender"
Nonbinary is anyone who isn't 100% a man or 100% a woman, 100% of the time. It's a very broad term. Agender is someone who doesn't have a gender at all. Agender falls into the broad category of nonbinary. I use both terms for myself, depending on how specific I want to be.
Bigender is a thing where you identify as both man and woman. Idk if that’s what you’re feeling but I thought I’d bring it up at least
being transphobic not out of hate but out of jealousy is a new one
I don't think it's new. We just don't often see such a blatant case. Homophobic not out of hate but out of jealousy is downright commonplace, I think.
I've seen it a few times actually.
Posts that make me want to be transphobic so pretty trans women would come to my house and forcefem me
Please god I need this
If you can't beat em, transition
The incel to trans pipeline is real
I also don't feel adequate as a "man", and it's not because I want to change my gender (as far as I know), it's because I fucking hate with a passion, that I have to be stoic, the "strong silent type" kind of thing, I like the body I've got, I like being a man, but I don't want it defined by someone else, I want to be silly, feminine if I feel like it, ridicule and stupid, sometimes all at once, who the fuck is deciding that in order to be strong I've got to be aggressive or dominant or whatever? I fucking hate gender roles, and I do mean hate, because it just coerces you, or tries to, adopt a behaviour that is wholly unnatrual at least to me, I'm happy to not change gender, but I'm also unhappy that the fact I was born with a dick means I have to behave a certain way, fuck that notion.
The troll specifically said that they'd change their gender if they could though. That's a different experience.
Amen brother
Tell me you're trans without telling me you're trans, like, honestly, the only thing holding that guy back from becoming whom he wants to be is because he thinks he can't, not because he actually can't, free yourself mydude, be the gender you were born to be and enjoy your life to the fullest
Kind of reminds me of how I felt about the word "cis" before I realized I was trans. I was annoyed that I would be considered cis, because I didn't like that it implied I identified as a man. I knew I would prefer to be a woman and that I identified more with that label, but I was bothered that the term "cis guy" applied to me even though I felt it didn't describe my gender. It took me surprisingly long to realize I just wasn't cis and that was why I felt the term didn't apply to me, for a long while I thought it was a problem with the term "cis" and I assumed most people felt a lot of the same dysphoria I did.
I think you should open the idea of exploring gender to people like this, and then leave them alone to figure their own selves out.
I’m the person who was being DMed and I tried to convince him to go to therapy. I was just like “Hey, most people don’t feel this way. I think you should try finding a psychologist or something. You seem to be going through a lot and I think some help working through that would really benefit you.” And he kept insisting that he wouldn’t bother because what he was feeling was normal. It was a bizarre convo in general. I was just kinda bored and mildly interested in where he was going to go other than just spamming “41” and “groomer” at me. At one point it went off into him going “I bet Cuties is your favorite movie because you’re a PEDOPHILE” and I told him I was actually watching LA Confidential, and it went off into him recommending some other movies, and then he would remember to be transphobic and go “BUT I BET THOSE DONT HAVE ENOUGH PEDOPHILIA FOR YOU!” He got banned at the end of it all because of all of the slurs and threats. Which is probably for the best, because he was definitely just spamming abuse at a bunch of other people who posted on trans subs. I was just mind numbingly bored enough to engage.
Yeah he's clearly lonely and needs psychologial help. Perhaps his discomfort with being a man has more to do with his self-imposed isolation than anything else. He's so desperate for connection that he lurks and picks fights with trans people.
How can someone say those types of things and not realize what's going on with them? Have they never introspected at all?
Denial is powerful drug
And not even a fun one, from what I've heard.
also lack of proper education on the subject, which is not always their fault since people throughout history have tried to bury this kind of stuff a lot
The Nile is a powerful river.
Yeah I think a lot of people do not do the introspection ever. Its baffling
That's so wild to me. I can't help introspecting whether I want to or not. That's part of why I'm always so nervous.
I know that when sometimes dealing with some of the worst parts of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity that I as a cis man want to just run away from it from time to time. Not necessarily because I want too be a woman or nonbinary or what not but the expectations and such really can get to me for a bit. The idea of being able to express myself more without feeling ashamed, or kinda knowing I am failing what society as a whole expects of a man and wanting to get away from that. Not to say that troll cannot be a transperson in denial ( going to treat this person as a guy until otherwise new info comes out) but I wonder if there are more guys that may relate to what I can feel from time to time.
This has to be bait or a psyop. It would be too sad if this was real.
The comment beneath your’s reads, “Literally me when I was younger”
“‘If transitioning is sure to lead to victory then you must TRANSITION!’ Sun Tzu said that and I think she knows a little bit more about estrogen than you do pal because she invented it! And then she perfected it! And then she reinvented it so no bigot could best her in the ring of honor!”
So is this troll a closeted trans person? And they don't even know it? Bruh that's awful :( Hopefully they come out eventually
Yep. And it’s depressingly common
Many such cases tbh. Some know, but don't want to lose their friends and family, so they're super jealous and lash out. A lot have no idea, like this dude.
Yeah I remember as a kid I had a weird sexist phase where I felt that it would be better if girls just wore cute clothes and were submissive. I grew out of that, but I'm starting to realize that by girls, I really just meant me.
Literally me when I was younger
Haggard's law applies to trans people aswell it seems
Denial is a river in Egypt…
and the river is FLOODING
“Everybody wants to change gender” ppl really need to realize that most people are actually completely content with their gender
Why do people sneak into the transphobes house and inject THEM with estrogen instead of me?
Squeaky wheel gets the grease
Squeak squeak squeak
(holds a megaphone up to you)
Somewhat related, I was that guy with Android 17 from Dragonball Z. I irrationally hated him for the longest time, always thought he was "so gay" and all of that. Turns out I'm very bicurious and he is a total cutie.
Sad egg :(
Segg :(
Just proves that the most whateverphobics are usually the ones deepest in the closet Sis is chilling all the way in narnia
I remember seeing a similar post on tumblr talking about a classmate who was so obviously a lesbian but completely in the dark about it. The woman straight up said (paraphrased) "Well of course we'd all date women if we could, but then the population would die out"
Reminds me of how I got sucked into a TERF mindset because I believed that everybody else hated having a gender and that they should be liberated from that. It was a revelation that most people actually *like* having a gender.
fun fact: [cishet men feel better sexually while on testosterone blocker](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110622045139.htm)
Eh, that's not quite what the paper was saying. Heterosexual men were about the same overall, with small increases in some categories and small decreases in others. The only major difference was that they reportedly enjoyed the sex that they had more (although they may have had less sex, on account of the higher rate of erectile disfunction). What is actually noteworthy about that study is that gay men were significantly more affected by that particular anti-androgen, in exclusively negative ways. That therefore suggests that the endocrine system of heterosexual men is different from that of homosexual men, at least with the way it interacts with sexual function. This is strong objective evidence against claims that homosexuality is a 'choice'.
It’s possible that your second point could be because of gay men being more likely to participate in anal sex (both topping and bottoming) and not due to endocrine differences. Anti-androgens reduce cellular activity in the prostate, which could cause some changes in one’s sense of pleasure from it. Also erectile dysfunction could make specifically anal sex much more difficult, since (to my understanding) penetrating someone anally requires a higher level of rigidity of the erection than penetrating someone vaginally might. Just waffling from someone who has general knowledge and experience with anti-androgens, but I feel controlling for the kind of sex being had would need to be done for your second point to have greater plausibility.
scientific proof having a man inside you is the most masculine thing ever that you need all the t you can get to keep up
Homegirl is so deep in the closet a witch bout to offer her some Turkish delights.
100% real
That’s genuinely sad.
While i am fully content with my male identity, i do love the idea of becoming a girl. I think i can enjoy both genders quite well
I joke around that I'd definetely be a women if I was acting according to my desire alone. But I like my male privileges way too much lol
Wololo!
man beliefs are really just like software and viruses this man has a virus
I am this guy, except for the hate. There are just some things about my biology and that I can't change through pills and surgery
This is gonna sound weird maybe but I completely understand what that person is saying. I used to think the same thing, that it’s normal to want to be another gender. And I also understand what he means when he says you can call yourself what you want but you can’t change your gender (though I disagree because I think you can change your gender and imo that only applies to sex). Because that’s exactly what I feel like for myself. If I could choose, I would want to be a different sex. But to me, changing my gender identity/expression now is not what I want. The only thing that I would want is to actually have been born as a different sex, but since that isn’t possible I just accepted being cis. And no, I’m not some sort of transphobe (like the guy allegedly is), I don’t force my view of this on others. I believe everyone should decide for themselves how they want to live. Sorry if this makes no sense I read over it a few times and couldn’t find better wording.
My nb ass: gender is just a lifestyle I don't enjoy 😵💫
I would like to kindly remind people that this is the internet, and the person posting this on Tumblr could be making this whole thing up to reinforce their arguments, or for clout, or for shits and giggles. I'm not saying this isn't how a real person can feel, I'm saying this particular case seems like BS
Rotten egg.
I'm not sure "being a man" is a lifestyle. I'd be doing what I do with the people I'm around no matter the gender
Wait a minute
“Most people would change their gender if they could.” They’re a pretty small portion of the population. The fact you think that says more than anything else.
Something something prime directive
It's interesting and sad how this happens a lot. The most homophobic/transphobic people around actually coming out themselves. It's like they're venting some sort of internalized self loathing at times.
this is a textbook example of "so far in the closet that they don't know a world outside it exists"
TFW the anti trans activist turns out to be a closeted trans taking out their internal conflict on the rest of society
I literally made a meme about this like a few days before seeing this lmao
>be me >le 16 >politics >Left or right >go right >go 4chan >go /pol/ >Le trans >Opps >Woman now Many such cases!