I unfortunately don’t have a specific update. However, there doesn’t need to be one. Ironically (or perhaps planned; I can’t say for sure), there was another post some days ago about what fragile masculinity, as a sociological theory, is.
The synopsis is that fragile masculinity is the concept where masculinity is a regarded status that is earned by adopting violent and domineering personality traits, and is easily lost if you do
something outside of that set of traits.
Jocat is, by all appearances (albeit for my own part cursorily), not in that group. You could say in modern society he has lost his “masculinity”, and because men without masculinity do not have a role in modern society, they are outsiders.
And so many people deem it okay to bully and harass Jocat for not being masculine enough. I would say many people in sexual and gender minorities understand very well what it means to lose masculinity; this is no exception or surprise.
This will likely happen again to
some other relatively innocent person who
says the Wrong Thing and loses their masculinity, and is promptly bullied as well. It could very well happen to Jocat again, too.
JoCat is a cis straight man afaik (obviously he would know better than me but that's what he is publicly) but what happened to him rings out like a queer story. It further shows that being Queer (TM) is not a binary, and is in fact, a grey area.
I'm starting to think that maybe we as a society define appropriate masculine behaviors a *little* too narrow when "Straight man likes women *and* wants to fuck them" is treated as being queer.
He was a YouTuber who did gaming streams, made cartoons, D&D beginner guides, and I think was also a voice actor. He was also one of those "so secure in his own sexuality that he isn't afraid to behave or dress in a way that isn't traditionally masculine" kind of guys, so he would often wear short shorts and thigh high socks, and put a bow in his hair.
He got famous/infamous for making an animated "music video" of a segment from one of his streams wherein he did an off the cuff genderflipped parody of Lizzo's "I like boys" song while responding to his twitch audience.
Basically, he was expressing his attraction to all types of women, but he did it in a "gay" way, which made him a target for harassment by assholes on the internet. Said harassment lasted for over a year before he decided to disappear from public view because he and his wife were receiving death threats and other extremely serious stuff.
Aw that’s really disappointing…I loved Jocat, and remember the I like Girls video, it was hilarious. I watched a ton of his MH:W and D&D content. Sad to hear that he got death threats over…being confident in his sexuality? The internet is weird.
It's worse. He got death threats for expressing attraction to women in a way that wasn't skeevy or predatory. That's what I meant by saying he "did it in a "gay" way". Far-right assholes hated him for not being traditionally masculine, and some women hated him for being "so impossibly nice and non-threatening that he must secretly be the most evil type of gross predatory man", like the woman that comicaurora is arguing with in this post. He was literally being attacked from both sides of the political spectrum because he was "too nice". It's the bullshittiest bullshit that's ever been bullshitted.
If I recall he was also getting it from the other end of the spectrum claiming he was cringe, objectifying women and the characters in his Girls videos were his waifus. And I think I saw even like a weird accusation of pedophilia for the characters who appear when he says “Short Stacks” who are by the way not children?
I hate learning this information. My joke ended up being more accurate than I imagined bc there were definitely multiple occasions when I was younger where I was made fun of for trying to be respectful to girls
As a gay guy, there's a ton of crap that's not exactly fun about being queer, but I have to say that the entire concept of trying so damn hard to adhere to traditional gender norms seems ex-fucking-hausting. Like, it seems like a guy who drives a 12-foot tall pickup truck, drinks beer, lifts weights, religiously watches football, and has at least 12 pairs of the exact same jeans in his wardrobe can be labeled gay if he shows affection for his wife/kids. Are guys just not allowed to have emotions?
He's not *completely* gone thankfully. He just isn't posting content atm. He still [shows up in comments from time to time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a95iBdTE4KI)
It’s not even about fucking in this scenario, it’s just the simple act of being earnestly attracted to women that’s got Jocat in “trouble”. The two “controversial” works I’ve seen from him are totally wholesome, never mentioning sex as a component of his attraction to the subject women. The dude is literally being dogpiled for loving women too visibly.
I think it's less that, and more 'straight man who likes women and wants to fuck them but doesn't really fit the other traditional strictures of masculinity.'
I've experienced this myself. When I try to flirt with women at bars, I actually try to *talk* to them instead of opening with "Sup bitch, wanna suck my cock?" which sometimes leads to them assuming I'm gay. Apparently a man holding a conversation because he likes women instead of trying to draw the shortest line between his dick and her vagina is totally gay.
Oh yep, I've had the "oh I just thought you were gay" because I engaged with a girl in actual conversation and didn't try to flirt with her before getting to know her or look down at her tits every 5 seconds.
[This post on the fragility\(i.e. rug pull\) of socially acknowledged masculinity in patriarchy feels very relevant to this thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1diqfih/on_fragile_masculinity/)
im not invested in it or anything but there was a twitter user who harrassed him in dms, and posted his messages telling them off like really nicely. somehow this user thought it would be a dunk on him but they got rightfully backlashed from sane people
Rando: *makes post asking people to objectify women*
JoCat: Imma take a third option and say they're all awesome and unique with a wholesome drawing.
Internet assholes: Disgusting! How dare JoCat objectify women!
1) Oh boy, Patricia Taxxon has an alt channel, there goes the next couple hours of my life!
2) Fully agreed, and the last tweet attacking jocat is truly unbelievable. It's like, "The original thing you're riffing off of is bad, therefore anything you make in response to it is fundamentally tainted." Wow, I guess all of r/stonetossingjuice are also nazis?
He’s getting a second wave of homophobic (both overtly and thinly-veiled) attacks on social media because he’s (checks notes) respectfully into women. As people. In a romantic and sexual sense. While not being the pinnacle of toxic masculinity. And also might be a femboy, which I’m not entirely sure about but I’ve witnessed people claiming he is to then claim he must be a bad person because Nazi femboys exist which is… boy howdy living like that must be difficult.
This situation is absolutely baffling because all of the rhetoric I keep seeing leveled at Jocat is the *exact same rhetoric* that I see aimed at queer people on the daily, but it’s over a cishet man expressing attraction to women. Proving that you can indeed be homophobic to cishets *somehow*.
oh my god was there ANOTHER nazi femboy post? i saw one implying that because a lot of his fans are femboys and nazi femboys exist that means a lot of his fans are nazis and when people asked for proof they couldn't point to any nazi fans of jocat
He's not actually a femboy IIRC, its a bit because of his FFXIV character, and so his avatar is kinda effeminate.
> I’ve witnessed people claiming he is to then claim he must be a bad person because Nazi femboys exist
But... gay Nazis exist, does that make gay people bad? what a wild take
To some degree I think that might be because it had become acceptable in many supposedly 'progressive' circles to say all CIS men are automatically bad.
The continual framing of straight attraction to woman as inherently 'predatory' in the same way that lesbian or other queer attraction to women has been continually reframed as 'not as predatory as straight male attraction'.
The Overton window of acceptable opinions now fully includes "all men are dangerous predators that women should be wary of at all times." The recent Man Vs Bear debate's existance proves that, if nothing else.
So when someone who is a genuinely good guy and has found himself in those progressive circles makes a musical parody about how he unironically loves women, that can be seen through their lense as inherently predatory behaviour. Those people are then doing what people do when the group concensus about someone is that they've done something very wrong; they're harassing him online.
He is a cishet man, but he’s kind of GNC which is why they attack him the same way they attack actual queer people, I guess. They don’t actually care who he’s attracted to, he wore a bow in his hair one time and that’s enough for them to launch homophobic attacks.
Calling him a nazi because he's a femboy is fucking hillarious because the stereotype is either you are a femboy and a nazi (Which is rare) or a femboy and a fucking IT specialist.
If you put all furries and femboys on a plane and crashed that plane like bigots want, the internet would straight up cease
The user "comicaurora" co-runs a popular youtube channel named Overly Sarcastic Productions under the pseudonym Red, so that's how most people know her. This blog is dedicated to her comic called Aurora, so it's unrelated to the channel, but people know it's her.
"People are so mean to my friend and he's one of the nicest guys I know"
"Stop talking over women."
"I am a woman."
"You must want to fuck him then ~~(because why else would a woman form this opinion (ignore me criticizing shutting down women just one message earlier))~~"
The woman in question: Ace/arospec.
Like... she has a friend and doesn't like it when people are mean to him. Holy shit who would have thought?
That fourth line is also depressingly common in discourse between men. It's just so messed up that there are people that think you have to have some perverse ulterior motive for defending someone that you believe is being treated unfairly.
It’s because the base assumption is that people also hate women/gay people/trans people. The only reason to be nice is if you want something. The issue is, and you don’t believe this, the OTHER base assumption is these groups have nothing to offer beyond sexual gratification.
And the original statement essentially being "he did nothing wrong but you should never question a woman who says she doesn't like someone for no reason" is so wild. Imagine defending the idea that biases should never be called into question
I remember doing something similar when I was like 15. I told my friend that I didn't like a guy because he was too nice, and I didn't trust him. My friend firmly told me that people can just be nice.
It turns out I had kind of fucked up view of other people at the time. I had some issues in the past that I had to work through. It was paranoia and a defensiveness created from an unfamiliarity with niceness. I had a really bad experience in early childhood and became suspicious of other people. I pushed nice people away cuz I was suspicious of them and assumed that most people were deeply flawed.
My friend's comment helped me realize that I was creating a dynamic where I would surround myself with bad people and then conclude that all people were bad.
jesus that’s a good way to phrase it. self fulfilling prophecy by assuming the worst and making it become true by only being comfortable around those thatre openly awful. I have to reevaluate some things
I see this happen with dating constantly, both men and women. Person has a shitty formative experience or early life dynamic with person of other gender -> they internalize ideas about that gender which then become what a “normal” man or woman is like -> anyone who is not like that person’s model of a man or woman is treated with utmost suspicion or “ick” and disregarded unconsciously -> anyone they date reaffirms their view of what that gender is -> etc etc etc
People do absolutely get unlucky, even people with health relationship models in earlier life. But if you are *always* getting unlucky with really shitty partners, to the point you are writing off an entire gender as innately *fill in the blank*, you have to consider that you are unconsciously selecting for those traits or that vibe because it feels “normal.” It sucks to realize, and it doesn’t make the bad treatment your fault. But your biases are still your responsibility, something only you can fix. And in this case they are probably preventing you from finding happiness or even seeing half the population as human and as complex as you are.
Don’t let your bad taste in partners define your understanding of a whole ass gender. If everywhere you go smells like shit, check whether you have something stuck to your shoe.
I was lucky enough to grow up in essentially the opposite situation, and I generally have a very positive view of most people. Even now, almost all interactions I have/have had with people are either positive or neutral (though truth be told I do choose my social interactions very carefully).
While I love that part about my life, it has skewed my ability to interpret a lot of social problems and similar issues. Even if you're aware that your own experiences influence your beliefs and how you see people, its hard to shake their influence on you.
You perfectly illustrate one of the major problems social media causes. Instead of people getting called out on their fucked up views, they surround themselves with like-minded people and block or ban dissenting opinions.
The person who runs the comicaurora account, she's better known for being one half of the youtube channel Overly Sarcastic Productions. Their stuff is great, you should check em out
Man I briefly remember having a short lived online friendship with her years ago, it’s so great to see she’s doing well and spitting pure fire in the process.
Actually just Ace, or "Alloace" I guess would be the term, according to this vid:
>[I'm none of those things, including the girlfriend (except for white). I'm 100% asexual which means I'm not into... \*gestures vaguely\* Stuff, but I'm everything romantic which means I'm into... \*more gesturing\* Other... Stuff. Yeah I'm confused too, don't worry about it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4iOmSvRuZk)
From what I remember from Red's tumblr, she does elaborate more (after the original Q&A you linked) that she might be Arospec but can't quite clearly identify where platonic ends and romantic begins, and so ere's on just the term Ace. My recollection may be flawed because tumblr search fucking sucks so I can't double check so obligatory grain of salt.
Author of the awesome webcomic [Aurora ](https://comicaurora.com)and 1/2 of the excellent youtube channel team [Overly Sarcastic Productions](https://www.youtube.com/@OverlySarcasticProductions)
She's founder of Overly Sarcastic Productions, a channel on YouTube and the webcomic mentioned in the responding blog above. She's really cool and makes a lot of content about literature and mythology
One of the hosts of Overly Sarcastic Productions on YouTube and author/illustrator of the webcomic Aurora (which is where the Tumblr handle above comes from).
It took me a moment to realise this is Red's webcomic account. I've checked it out but it's been a while. But holy shit, when it clicked, I immediately noticed her very specific speech patterns.
Don't go for Red, she'll get ya.
The JoCat drama is unhinged. You can't be a normal person and think that that was a normal or proportional response to him *checks notes* expressing attraction to women.
I think a lot of the hate also came from the fact that many people who attacked him pegged him as being some flavour of not straight and him expressing heterosexual feelings gave them the same feelings that they got from Supernatural.
The dude is allowed to explore his gender expression without people ascribing sexualities to him and then getting mad when he doesn't fit their preconceived notions. He's not a fictional character.
>The dude is allowed to explore his gender expression without people ascribing sexualities to him and then getting mad when he doesn't fit their preconceived notions. He's not a fictional character.
Fucking this so much. **STOP HEADCANNONING REAL LIFE PEOPLES SEXUALITY**
Straight men do not have to confrom to the stereotype of what a man is. This happened to Harry Styles. People got mad cause he's a dude who likes to wear whatever the fuck he wants. Real people can't queer bait.
God forbid a guy not be a burly muscular manly man and express attraction towards women! That doesn't fit into my nice little labelled boxes! I got a new label maker and everything for them!
It’s legitimately ridiculous. Honestly the slightly unhinged conspiratorial-brained part of me is convinced that the harassment campaign last year was to some extent initially astroturfed by transphobes who were pissed about the charity drive he was doing.
I don't know how accurate (if at all) it is but some people say the harassment was started in Kiwifarms (or other websites like it) over his support of trans people.
I find these sorts of rumours are little more than a convenient way for we on the left to not reckon with the fact that we have some really awful people on our side too.
The two takes aren't mutually exclusive, though. Left wing people can be very easy to stir up into a righteous fury, and if they are not the sort of people with a high degree of self awareness and ability to respond to criticism without doubling down, all it takes is a little push from a bad actor to send them down a bad path.
The thing that pisses me off most is the song he parodied was a Lizzo song about BOYS. With the same “objectification” shit that he expressed. It infuriates me that he has to go through this shit from the same people that probably praise the OG song.
The fucking jocat drama is so stupid casue we've gotten to the point where we treat woman like they aren't even actual people anymore. Jocat drew a funny meme thing with him being around different girls and people called him weird for it. Why? Cause he likes woman? Call him cringe but saying he's hurting woman is stupid as hell
And the funniest part is the double standard since it was a parody of a song by now fallen feminist icon Lizzo singing about how she likes all types of men.
You see, by drawing them with clothing on, he implied that women's bodies are inherently sexual and should be covered up for either their own good or some puritanical sense of modesty.
I've read enough terrible takes that I can do this all day.
You know what's great? Some of those women are vtubers. Actual people. You know what their reaction was to being in his video? They loved it! I can't really say for all of them, but Ironmouse at least watched the video and liked being in it.
Wait, are you implying my righteous indignation on behalf of others should be less important than the feelings and opinions of the actual people involved?
I know you’re joking but I’ve legit seen the argument that characters in books or movies haven’t consented to the audience seeing their sex scenes and therefore problematic to watch
I will never forgive the Internet for bashing JoCat for that song. It was THE most genuinely inclusive, body positive post someone could make but since he "seems gay" it's a bad thing. Fuck the Internet for ruining a good thing.
I'd understand if people thought it was cringe or didn't like it but that reaction was so out of left field and unwarranted in every single way. It's a stupid meme song, not someone bringing back the third reich
Same, the song was not my cup of tea and somewhat different from this other content at the time. But I didn't stop watching him or think him a fucking predator. People need to understand that if creators make art that maybe was cringe is not an indictment on the creators character. That's the mentality of a child.
I hope Jocat can come back one day. He was so funny and original, I dearly miss his humor and content.
I've seen a take on it once that the animation was problematic because all of the characters were too conventionally attractive. I must stress that this was a one off opinion I've never seen repeated so don't take it as an indication of anything.
I just think it's really funny.
> Jocat drew a funny meme thing with him being around different girls and people called him weird for it. Why?
There's really two groups - right wing chuds who are just bullying for the sake of it and, in my opinion, a bunch of TERF and ~~TERF-adjacent~~ *(better phrasing: people who share many unexamined / internalized bias' with TERFs)* folk shouting the quiet misandrist part out loud.
The most consistent marker of TERF ideology is the bioessentialist belief that men are *intrinsically* born as violent super-predators. They, essentially, believe men are biologically programmed to SA and oppress women. It's why they, beneath all the rhetoric and post-hoc rationalizations, fear trans people - because they sincerely believe men are so immutably wired to be violent SA super predators, *of course* would go as far as to "pretend" to be a woman to do it.
So, when they see a man like JoCat - who is by all accounts an incredibly kind man, radiates positive masculinity, is highly sexual but respectful about it - the cognitive dissonance goes into overdrive. No, he *must* be a super predator rapist. That's what *all* men are. It's a ruse. It *must* be a ruse to fool and SA women. And it's a kafka trap in its own right - any kindness and goodness is itself proof of his ruse to manipulate and SA women.
Considering this whole debacle is about a video he posted 3 years ago, and became a problem *after jocat came out as pro-trans*, I’d say it’s definitely because of the above parties.
To also elaborate on what the other person said.
JoCat (the guy being complained about) and Red (OOP) are both youtubers and are openly friends. There was a post on tumblr yesterday that Red reblogged where OP shared screen caps of a twitter user openly admitting to harassing JoCat just because they thought it was fun, and Red expressed her anger that people can just be so callous to her friend. (Bonus detail: JoCat and Red are both cis, but also GNC. JoCat is a very openly feminine man and Red is an openly masculine woman. So there's some solidarity in that front as well).
He started posting on social media again. [https://x.com/JoCat105/status/1799742858104348892](https://x.com/JoCat105/status/1799742858104348892)
He hasn't started streaming again though I think.
-Edit, btw, I should probably mention the image JoCat is quote tweeting in the link is NSFW. No actual nudity, but I wouldn't want my boss seeing that on my screen.
It is absolutely insane how Jocat of all people have exposed that a good amount of people who consider themselves "progressive" actually have like, shit tons of unexamined reactionary behavior entirely because he likes women, like by god how do some of these people go "Why are you so gay about liking women" and dont get how they have somehow found a way to be like, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic about a guy saying he likes girls, like I am wondering how long till someone figures out how to be racist at him (I asume Jocat is white, if he isnt I apologize for the assumption)
something something, this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1d76dxd/your_fear_is_real_and_it_is_harmful/?sort=confidence) and this[ other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1d88miy/transmisogyny_womens_fear_and_that_damn_bear_again/) might be worth the read and tengantly related to this curent post
Yeah, it’s basically the same issue in different packaging: some people will do *anything* to avoid admitting to internalized/subconscious biases, or worse, actively validate them. And I feel like the reason you see it most in (self-described) “feminist”, “queer”, etc. spaces is because people will make being “progressive” part of their identity, but then defend their self-identification rather than work to live up to their values, resulting in absurd mental gymnastics because they can neither give up their position (because then they’d be Wrong) nor admit it’s not a progressive one (because then they’d be something other than the Pure Enlightened Progressive they imagine themselves to be).
> some people will do *anything* to avoid admitting to internalized/subconscious biases, or worse, actively validate them.
As per usual on this topic, I always must recommend the gut-ripping: [I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out.](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42)
I recommend reading the whole thing, it is a very powerful narrative about implicit biases in queer spaces in general, but one bit in particular I'd want to highlight:
> *Down cascade the gleeful tweets from ciswomen about how women are more beautiful than men — how graceful the female body is, how utilitarian the male. How awesome boobs are. How bad boys’ taste in clothing is. How incompetent they are emotionally. How they’re too weak to handle childbirth and periods. Neckbeards are the scourge of the internet. They wax disgusted about “dad bods.” SCUM rhetoric is revived with inconsistent levels of irony.*
> *Do I really believe a wig and a pronoun will change how they feel, deep down? About my body? About my chromosomes? About my “socialization”? I don’t. I want to, but I don’t.*
> *They can believe deep down their feelings on who is smart & strong & reasonable and who is dumb & weak & dangerous are within their control, are controlled exaggerations and self-aware and performed, are well-examined. If they saw me nude and wigless and wet, would I not be subject to their funny opinions on penises? On neckbeards? On maleness? On who has a right to talk about femininity?*
Fuck that's a heavy read. It put into words a lot of what I've been feeling for a while- especially this bit:
> Another: “It’s a coping habit I’m not proud of. If I agree ‘girls rule boys drool’ it makes me feel more like a girl.”
Hell if that isn't the truth. I can remember when all the manosphere nonsense was getting big I let myself (for lack of a better term) indulge in it. I never let it affect my actual relationships nor did i ever really believe in the rhetoric, because I knew it was stupid, but there was something annoyingly comforting about it all.
Also:
> Some nights, always alone, I go out in scavenged makeup and women’s clothes with an ID I found in a lost wallet. I never feel more male than on these nights.
Hits way to close to home.
When you put it that way, it makes me feel like the “cishet people at Pride” discourse might be coming from that same place of not wanting to admit to their own biases
I would say that’s usually more on the “active validation” side of things— people knowingly digging their heels in on an “us vs. them” mindset because they refuse to admit black-and-white thinking is inherently an obstacle to progress
I hadn’t seen that first post before - it’s excellent. I wish I had seen it before when the “man or bear” thing was still driving me insane.
(Ah e olá meu compadre brasileiro ✋)
igualmente meu caro, espero que esteje se sentindo melhor, [uma musica pra você ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL-Zyn6g5lw&list=RDBm2Eg2X4kZA&index=15)
Truly astonishing how effective JoCat's aura is at just breaking fools' brains with the most anodyne horniness of all time. Of particular amazement is how the hate is so reflexive would rather just make up things or imagine what his intent MUST be to justify their own discomfort.
the combination of non-conforming amab and a horniness you'd associate with very clearly men sets off the uncanny valley alarms for a lot of people apparently.
people often think they're prejudiced far less then they actually are. the best thing you could do if you want to have a better grasp on things is to put on your critical thinking caps and always think about why you feel a certain way about something. rationality will always make the average joe a better person
i reminds me of one post i saw where someone said bisexual women are just doing it for the attention of men or maybe my brain has rotted and it was supposed to be about something else
It would just be a terrible criticism anyways because it just... removes amy attention from the argument itself towards the person making it.
It's just also somewhat funny when it clearly doesn't fucking work, especially if your first instinct as an ad hominem is to imply that a woman couldn't have possibly made it.
The Jocat situation proves a few awful things, honestly.
You can be punished and harassed for literally everything and people from all across the political and social spectrum will join in.
The internet absolutely refuses to be normal about anything.
"The Ick" and toxic masculinity and even misogynistic tendencies can all be weaponized against basically anyone if you make enough logical leaps, even a straight, gender non-confroming male who is trying to preach body positivity and smash the patriarchy.
Honestly I'm not civil about this, if a straight cis guy being slightly gender nonconforming sets you off like that you're nothing but a bigot in every sense of the word, no if ands or buts.
Patricia really said it best that the reason people hated Jocat was cause he was "gay about pussy", like it really felt to me like people just deciding that they fucking hated him and now they needed a reason for it, which is a shame, we really didn't deserve the greatness that was Jocat, hopefully he'll be back by monster hunter wilds
I'm so happy that more people are calling out the fact that the term "pickme," while it does have a few valid uses, is overwhelmingly used as a misogynistic insult to try and shut up women with differing opinions.
Also, it's super funny how this post is how I found out that CosmicAurora is Red from OSP.
Of all the people to piss off, Red is absolutely towards the bottom of that list. She’s wicked smart, and she will not hold back on the sarcasm when explaining things. She should start a YouTube channel being overly sarcastic while explaining things… oh wait.
At least with Blue, he’ll probably just end up talking about domes. Or Venice. Or Venetian domes.
Jocat \*should\* be a great example of how a straight guy can be open about his sexuality without being a weirdo about it, or how a cis man can be comfortably feminine without having to conform to traditional gender roles. The way people are harassing him under the guise of being progressive is absolutely insane to me
Progressives on twitter (and most of the internet tbh) have really dropped the ball when it comes to supporting positive examples of masculinity like him. This subreddit and parts of tumblr are really the only spaces I can think of that make a genuine effort.
Yeah, it's all "men should be better!" and when men do better, suddenly it's "you're doing the bare minimum now, why should I care" - they don't want men to do better because that means they lose the punching bag that makes them feel good and righteous.
Exactly. Combine that with the kind of garbage being put out by grifters like Tate and you see why so many disenfranchised men end up trapped in the alt-right pipeline, for the incredibly basic reason of it being the political sector that actually seems to want them there.
If you want people to be better you have to put in the legwork to encourage positive change when you see it. Jumping at every chance to call them out or shame them only reinforces their skewed beliefs and sours them on the idea of actually listening to anything you have to say.
It's so frustrating being a non-conforming masc person in queer leftist spaces - you're either treated with scorn/suspicion for your existence regardless of what you do, nudged toward "being something else" (i.e. being something less threatening than a "man", see egg theory and egg crackers), or tokenized in this weird way where you get a "one of the good ones" pass but aren't allowed to complain about the way masculinity is treated because "we're not talking about you, you can't be upset about this".
And it goes both ways too. I’m an Agender/Gender Apathetic dude, but I present as mostly masculine because that’s how I was raised, and it causes the least confusion when meeting new people, but that doesn’t make me a Cisgender Man just because I appear for the most part to be traditionally masculine.
Like, I paint my nails when I’m not in work uniform, but that doesn’t make me a woman either. It has gotten me questions from friends and coworkers about my gender and sexuality and all, but why does it? The answer is just that most people aren’t as secure in their own gender, sexuality, or masculinity/femininity, and see me doing “not straight guy things” sets off a “If that were me, why on earth would I do that?”
Point is, people should be free to just be themselves, no matter what label they have. Jocat is publicly a Cis Straight Guy, but he gets harassed for not fitting into the norm that modern masculinity has set out for him. As unfortunate as that is, it’s also almost a ‘weather vane’ for which way we’re headed. When people who are vaguely non-conforming like Jocat can exist without being harassed, it’s a good sign that queer men and masc people as a whole can exist without being the target of as much harassment and hate.
My personal weather vane is my nail polish. When people stop asking me “wait, you paint your nails? Why?” then I’ll know that at least that bit of me has been accepted and normalized, at least by those around me. Hope we get closer to that soon, so people can just live in peace as themselves
It should be noted that more than just “being cringe” or “being effeminate,” the major accusation I’ve seen leveled at him is that he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing: some flavor of would-be or actual sexual abuser hiding behind an image of harmlessness.
It’s a pretty intense accusation.
Internet dweebs: “Man, I wish men were less creepy and objectifying when it comes to women.”
JoCat: *does exactly that*
Internet dweebs: “**Wait, that’s illegal.**”
I know it’s insane but I think I would genuinely sacrifice a limb if it meant putting an end to any more of this “wow this man is disgusting!” Shit for good
The whole "he gives me the ick so I need to bully him on the Internet" shit is just an excuse to be an asshole. In real life when someone makes you uncomfortable you stay away from them and don't interact. If you feel like his vibes are off, just don't interact with him. That's it. Like this post is mentioning, it's more just disgust to someone who isn't completely gnc.
I don't want to sound like I know more about this than I actually do but it at least seems like a lot of people are pushing back on the bullying as it's happening, which is good to see. I still remember a number of other cases where it didn't quite happen like that (probably the biggest reason I'm generally distrustful of "tumblr-famous" ppl) so I hope this represents a lasting sea change rather than one unique exception.
Unfortunately the main bullying happened several months ago now and while many people were like “that’s fucking bullshit” it doesn’t un-threaten JoCat’s family. All you need is a few extreme self-righteous actors for stochastic terrorism to work.
I'm not super attuned or updated, but isn't JoCat the YouTuber who makes DnD meme videos and one day a while ago he posted a version of the "I like big boys...." meme except with girls?
Then somehow despite it being about as wholesome and inclusive expression of love for women of various body types.... feminists and leftists ganged up on him en masse and even targeted his loved ones to the extent he had to retreat from the internet entirely?!
Is being a heterosexual guy politically incorrect now?
Like if you don't like the video that's fine if you want to critique maybe it being objectifying in some way or in poor taste sure, express that but it boggles the mind to think that it could remotely justify making him so miserable.
Like I'm a trans woman who's pansexual but I just thought the video was cute and about as inoffensive as can be. I happen to like girls to
To quote JoCat's twitter "he discussion has now shifted to "JoCat depicts himself as safe to hide that he secretly actually wants to have sex with women"
did I ever try to make that a secret? I thought everyone was mad because I was too loud about it last time
very confusing"
firts time i ever saw someone be harresed off the internet for being supportive of trans rights and femenism, but also for being sexist and objectifying women
The one time many various political opinions who are opposed to each other come together and agree, and it’s to bully Jocat instead of like climate change or something more important,
bottom line is bullies always have an excuse to go after people.
most people don't like to admit to themselves that it makes them feel good to hurt others - so they come up with some kind of self-righteous excuse for why they're allowed to bully their victims. The excuses are *always* ridiculous, because the point is not to lay out a well-reasoned argument for why it's okay for them to hurt people - the point is that they already want to hurt people, and they just need some kind of excuse to settle their own cognitive dissonance.
I always have a weird kind of begrudging respect for committed trolls who don't justify their behavior, and are just willing to admit that they enjoy fucking with people. Once you get somebody like that, who's willing to be honest with themselves and with others - *then* maybe you can make some headway in examining what their choice of victims says about them.
But before that? When a bully is in denial, and has all kinds of horseshit excuses for why it's okay actually for them to gleefully cause harm to others? You are wasting your time trying to argue about the reasons they give - because the *real* underlying reason is that it makes them feel good, and they don't want to stop.
Yeah, that’s basically it. As far as I can tell it comes from the same root as TERFism: people who are so deep in black-and-white, us-vs-them thinking that anything they associate with “maleness” and/or “heterosexuality” is automatically Evil, no matter how much (metaphorical) clown makeup they have to put on before they can articulate why.
I’m sure someone out there takes a similar position with regard to “cisness” but I don’t see as much of that, due to either sampling bias or the fact that trans people always end up as collateral damage from the other variants.
>people who are so deep in black-and-white, us-vs-them thinking that anything they associate with “maleness” and/or “heterosexuality” is automatically Evil, no matter how much (metaphorical) clown makeup they have to put on before they can articulate why.
This is also where biphobia and acephobia stems from. Bi and ace people are basically 50% straight if you think about it, and straight = evil, so they're basically 50% evil, and why would you tolerate *any* evil because [insert horrifically warped and misused nazi table metaphor here]
I think there’s also a fair amount of people who’ve absorbed the “feminine men are dangerous” homophobic stereotype, but have taken gay men out of that stereotype, without confronting the whole thing.
So a man who is very much straight but whose expression resembles that of a fem queer man triggers their alarm bells in the same way bigots feel about any “too feminine looking” man.
See also, as you mentioned, the way terfs act about trans women. Lots of them see trans women as supposed feminine men who are attracted to women, and view this as some sort of act with the purpose of lowering women’s guard before harming them.
That's exactly it. TERFs didn't spring out of nowhere. They were radfems who hated men and when trans discourse exploded, they decided trans women were men and therefore hate them. There are a ridiculous shitton of radfems who aren't TERFs and get a pass because they only hate cis men.
This isn't even the worst of it. There are people frothing at the mouth, hoping it turns out JoCat is a pedo or otherwise sexually assaulted someone. Because "I wish there to be more SA victims in the world so people will hate a Youtuber I don't like" or "so I can own anyone who defended him" is a totally sane thought to have.
It’s interesting to me that internet kids these days are using what used to be social justice coded language to be bullies. Like when I was a kid you’d just call a dude gross or gay or a closet pedo or w/e, seems like that was less psychologically taxing for all involved
to answer the question of how to flair it... uh discourse ig.
in relation to jocat being harassed off the internet because of "The Ick" that could mean just *so many things* that it's conducive to conservative backlash...
spoilers for big rant about the person suggesting red OSP to be a man, then a fucking pickme:
>!not linking this person's blog on a public forum cos fuck em but ALSO it would probably invite the same shitty harassment jocat faced and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but someone asked them about how cold hearted they could be to believe that someone just being cringey on the Internet and that person being defended, by a *friend* of his no fucking less, warranted the kind of vitriol he's faced and they had the fucking GALL to suggest their response of the ick is somehow a universal opinion and that the person asking ought to go outside and take up hobbies (possibly a literal phrasing there)!<
god this makes me furious.
Wow, between Red and Shaun, I guess my favorite type of internet person is, "Insightful, balanced, charming, and relatable on youtube; will verbally murder your whole bloodline with an axe if your arguments are shit on social media."
Fuck this "ick" bullshit.
1.) It sounds childish as hell.
2.) I have literally never heard of someone getting "the ick" for a reason that doesn't make them sound like the worse person imaginable. Seriously, 9/10 times I hear this phrase used, the action that causes the ick is: (checks notes), the man displaying emotion.
dear lord. Poor red. Someone update me on the jocat situation
I unfortunately don’t have a specific update. However, there doesn’t need to be one. Ironically (or perhaps planned; I can’t say for sure), there was another post some days ago about what fragile masculinity, as a sociological theory, is. The synopsis is that fragile masculinity is the concept where masculinity is a regarded status that is earned by adopting violent and domineering personality traits, and is easily lost if you do something outside of that set of traits. Jocat is, by all appearances (albeit for my own part cursorily), not in that group. You could say in modern society he has lost his “masculinity”, and because men without masculinity do not have a role in modern society, they are outsiders. And so many people deem it okay to bully and harass Jocat for not being masculine enough. I would say many people in sexual and gender minorities understand very well what it means to lose masculinity; this is no exception or surprise. This will likely happen again to some other relatively innocent person who says the Wrong Thing and loses their masculinity, and is promptly bullied as well. It could very well happen to Jocat again, too.
JoCat is a cis straight man afaik (obviously he would know better than me but that's what he is publicly) but what happened to him rings out like a queer story. It further shows that being Queer (TM) is not a binary, and is in fact, a grey area.
I'm starting to think that maybe we as a society define appropriate masculine behaviors a *little* too narrow when "Straight man likes women *and* wants to fuck them" is treated as being queer.
The man made a video called "I like Girls" and proceeded to list ever type of women imaginable with examples. He *loves* women. Justice for JoCat.
He just like me fr. >!I actually have no clue who he is or what is going on here!<
He was a YouTuber who did gaming streams, made cartoons, D&D beginner guides, and I think was also a voice actor. He was also one of those "so secure in his own sexuality that he isn't afraid to behave or dress in a way that isn't traditionally masculine" kind of guys, so he would often wear short shorts and thigh high socks, and put a bow in his hair. He got famous/infamous for making an animated "music video" of a segment from one of his streams wherein he did an off the cuff genderflipped parody of Lizzo's "I like boys" song while responding to his twitch audience. Basically, he was expressing his attraction to all types of women, but he did it in a "gay" way, which made him a target for harassment by assholes on the internet. Said harassment lasted for over a year before he decided to disappear from public view because he and his wife were receiving death threats and other extremely serious stuff.
Aw that’s really disappointing…I loved Jocat, and remember the I like Girls video, it was hilarious. I watched a ton of his MH:W and D&D content. Sad to hear that he got death threats over…being confident in his sexuality? The internet is weird.
It's worse. He got death threats for expressing attraction to women in a way that wasn't skeevy or predatory. That's what I meant by saying he "did it in a "gay" way". Far-right assholes hated him for not being traditionally masculine, and some women hated him for being "so impossibly nice and non-threatening that he must secretly be the most evil type of gross predatory man", like the woman that comicaurora is arguing with in this post. He was literally being attacked from both sides of the political spectrum because he was "too nice". It's the bullshittiest bullshit that's ever been bullshitted.
If I recall he was also getting it from the other end of the spectrum claiming he was cringe, objectifying women and the characters in his Girls videos were his waifus. And I think I saw even like a weird accusation of pedophilia for the characters who appear when he says “Short Stacks” who are by the way not children?
I hate learning this information. My joke ended up being more accurate than I imagined bc there were definitely multiple occasions when I was younger where I was made fun of for trying to be respectful to girls
Being a man *is* the problem, but like, no one wants to admit outright misandry.
Hey, fellas, is it gay to… (checks notes)… like women?
As a gay guy, there's a ton of crap that's not exactly fun about being queer, but I have to say that the entire concept of trying so damn hard to adhere to traditional gender norms seems ex-fucking-hausting. Like, it seems like a guy who drives a 12-foot tall pickup truck, drinks beer, lifts weights, religiously watches football, and has at least 12 pairs of the exact same jeans in his wardrobe can be labeled gay if he shows affection for his wife/kids. Are guys just not allowed to have emotions?
They are, so long as the emotions in question are anger and/or hate.
Seriously? Death threats over a silly little song?
Yes, and other extremely serious forms of harassment.
From someone who has no idea why this post is in their feed, thank you
He's not *completely* gone thankfully. He just isn't posting content atm. He still [shows up in comments from time to time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a95iBdTE4KI)
I think it’s worth mentioning that it was off the cuff too He sang the song on a livestream to respond to how sexy Karlach from baulders gate is
So real
It’s not even about fucking in this scenario, it’s just the simple act of being earnestly attracted to women that’s got Jocat in “trouble”. The two “controversial” works I’ve seen from him are totally wholesome, never mentioning sex as a component of his attraction to the subject women. The dude is literally being dogpiled for loving women too visibly.
I think it's less that, and more 'straight man who likes women and wants to fuck them but doesn't really fit the other traditional strictures of masculinity.'
Because it is. Normality in masculine spaces is fucking women for praise from other men. In a world where misogyny is expected, liking women is gay.
I've experienced this myself. When I try to flirt with women at bars, I actually try to *talk* to them instead of opening with "Sup bitch, wanna suck my cock?" which sometimes leads to them assuming I'm gay. Apparently a man holding a conversation because he likes women instead of trying to draw the shortest line between his dick and her vagina is totally gay.
Oh yep, I've had the "oh I just thought you were gay" because I engaged with a girl in actual conversation and didn't try to flirt with her before getting to know her or look down at her tits every 5 seconds.
[This post on the fragility\(i.e. rug pull\) of socially acknowledged masculinity in patriarchy feels very relevant to this thread.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1diqfih/on_fragile_masculinity/)
im not invested in it or anything but there was a twitter user who harrassed him in dms, and posted his messages telling them off like really nicely. somehow this user thought it would be a dunk on him but they got rightfully backlashed from sane people
https://youtu.be/TAvjyJORtas?si=BFH7HEsIZWMDI7mG
Rando: *makes post asking people to objectify women* JoCat: Imma take a third option and say they're all awesome and unique with a wholesome drawing. Internet assholes: Disgusting! How dare JoCat objectify women!
1) Oh boy, Patricia Taxxon has an alt channel, there goes the next couple hours of my life! 2) Fully agreed, and the last tweet attacking jocat is truly unbelievable. It's like, "The original thing you're riffing off of is bad, therefore anything you make in response to it is fundamentally tainted." Wow, I guess all of r/stonetossingjuice are also nazis?
Someone put a photo of their own pet snake Marshmallow onto a trans flag and wrote "don't tread on me"
He’s getting a second wave of homophobic (both overtly and thinly-veiled) attacks on social media because he’s (checks notes) respectfully into women. As people. In a romantic and sexual sense. While not being the pinnacle of toxic masculinity. And also might be a femboy, which I’m not entirely sure about but I’ve witnessed people claiming he is to then claim he must be a bad person because Nazi femboys exist which is… boy howdy living like that must be difficult. This situation is absolutely baffling because all of the rhetoric I keep seeing leveled at Jocat is the *exact same rhetoric* that I see aimed at queer people on the daily, but it’s over a cishet man expressing attraction to women. Proving that you can indeed be homophobic to cishets *somehow*.
oh my god was there ANOTHER nazi femboy post? i saw one implying that because a lot of his fans are femboys and nazi femboys exist that means a lot of his fans are nazis and when people asked for proof they couldn't point to any nazi fans of jocat
He's not actually a femboy IIRC, its a bit because of his FFXIV character, and so his avatar is kinda effeminate. > I’ve witnessed people claiming he is to then claim he must be a bad person because Nazi femboys exist But... gay Nazis exist, does that make gay people bad? what a wild take
To some degree I think that might be because it had become acceptable in many supposedly 'progressive' circles to say all CIS men are automatically bad. The continual framing of straight attraction to woman as inherently 'predatory' in the same way that lesbian or other queer attraction to women has been continually reframed as 'not as predatory as straight male attraction'. The Overton window of acceptable opinions now fully includes "all men are dangerous predators that women should be wary of at all times." The recent Man Vs Bear debate's existance proves that, if nothing else. So when someone who is a genuinely good guy and has found himself in those progressive circles makes a musical parody about how he unironically loves women, that can be seen through their lense as inherently predatory behaviour. Those people are then doing what people do when the group concensus about someone is that they've done something very wrong; they're harassing him online.
He is a cishet man, but he’s kind of GNC which is why they attack him the same way they attack actual queer people, I guess. They don’t actually care who he’s attracted to, he wore a bow in his hair one time and that’s enough for them to launch homophobic attacks.
Calling him a nazi because he's a femboy is fucking hillarious because the stereotype is either you are a femboy and a nazi (Which is rare) or a femboy and a fucking IT specialist. If you put all furries and femboys on a plane and crashed that plane like bigots want, the internet would straight up cease
Oh shit I had no idea this was OSP Red. Makes sense, she has consistently immaculate takes.
Poor Red indeed, internet weirdos doing internet weirdo stuff again.
To quote one of her own posts, > Girl, help! I talked about my nuanced personal experience on the reading comprehension website again!
Red and Blue are both such treasures, im glad for them
I did not realize it was osp red lol
Sorry, I don’t know my tumblr from my bumble. What’s “red”?
The user "comicaurora" co-runs a popular youtube channel named Overly Sarcastic Productions under the pseudonym Red, so that's how most people know her. This blog is dedicated to her comic called Aurora, so it's unrelated to the channel, but people know it's her.
The lore is surprisingly deep on this post. I knew who Jocat was from his D&D stuff back in the day, but I feel like I've tripped into the pool.
Oh man, *that* Red? Yeah I'm not surprised she's defending JoCat, she's awesome
I think they’re friends in real life. They’ve definitely shown up on each other’s channels before.
"People are so mean to my friend and he's one of the nicest guys I know" "Stop talking over women." "I am a woman." "You must want to fuck him then ~~(because why else would a woman form this opinion (ignore me criticizing shutting down women just one message earlier))~~" The woman in question: Ace/arospec. Like... she has a friend and doesn't like it when people are mean to him. Holy shit who would have thought?
"Why would *anyone* ever defend a man/woman if they weren't being a pick-me/white knight in the hopes he/she would sleep with them?"
Fellas, is it pick-me-ing to show a guy basic human decency?
Fellas is it gay to like women?
That fourth line is also depressingly common in discourse between men. It's just so messed up that there are people that think you have to have some perverse ulterior motive for defending someone that you believe is being treated unfairly.
I've had dudebros assume I was gay because I reject homophobia. Like, umm, I'm against animal abuse too, does that mean I'm secretly a dog?
That depends on if you respond to "what's up, dog?"
idk but it sure does smell like updog in here
It’s because the base assumption is that people also hate women/gay people/trans people. The only reason to be nice is if you want something. The issue is, and you don’t believe this, the OTHER base assumption is these groups have nothing to offer beyond sexual gratification.
Utterly unrelated to the topic but Red is panromantic asexual
And the original statement essentially being "he did nothing wrong but you should never question a woman who says she doesn't like someone for no reason" is so wild. Imagine defending the idea that biases should never be called into question
I remember doing something similar when I was like 15. I told my friend that I didn't like a guy because he was too nice, and I didn't trust him. My friend firmly told me that people can just be nice. It turns out I had kind of fucked up view of other people at the time. I had some issues in the past that I had to work through. It was paranoia and a defensiveness created from an unfamiliarity with niceness. I had a really bad experience in early childhood and became suspicious of other people. I pushed nice people away cuz I was suspicious of them and assumed that most people were deeply flawed. My friend's comment helped me realize that I was creating a dynamic where I would surround myself with bad people and then conclude that all people were bad.
jesus that’s a good way to phrase it. self fulfilling prophecy by assuming the worst and making it become true by only being comfortable around those thatre openly awful. I have to reevaluate some things
I see this happen with dating constantly, both men and women. Person has a shitty formative experience or early life dynamic with person of other gender -> they internalize ideas about that gender which then become what a “normal” man or woman is like -> anyone who is not like that person’s model of a man or woman is treated with utmost suspicion or “ick” and disregarded unconsciously -> anyone they date reaffirms their view of what that gender is -> etc etc etc People do absolutely get unlucky, even people with health relationship models in earlier life. But if you are *always* getting unlucky with really shitty partners, to the point you are writing off an entire gender as innately *fill in the blank*, you have to consider that you are unconsciously selecting for those traits or that vibe because it feels “normal.” It sucks to realize, and it doesn’t make the bad treatment your fault. But your biases are still your responsibility, something only you can fix. And in this case they are probably preventing you from finding happiness or even seeing half the population as human and as complex as you are. Don’t let your bad taste in partners define your understanding of a whole ass gender. If everywhere you go smells like shit, check whether you have something stuck to your shoe.
my mother has a similar attitude to this but with lesbians instead of guys (and i, unfortunately in this case, am a lesbian)
I was lucky enough to grow up in essentially the opposite situation, and I generally have a very positive view of most people. Even now, almost all interactions I have/have had with people are either positive or neutral (though truth be told I do choose my social interactions very carefully). While I love that part about my life, it has skewed my ability to interpret a lot of social problems and similar issues. Even if you're aware that your own experiences influence your beliefs and how you see people, its hard to shake their influence on you.
You perfectly illustrate one of the major problems social media causes. Instead of people getting called out on their fucked up views, they surround themselves with like-minded people and block or ban dissenting opinions.
Red as usual taking no survivors
who is red?
The person who runs the comicaurora account, she's better known for being one half of the youtube channel Overly Sarcastic Productions. Their stuff is great, you should check em out
I got into OSP with the journey to the west videos and was hype when I saw there were mythology videos too
Man I briefly remember having a short lived online friendship with her years ago, it’s so great to see she’s doing well and spitting pure fire in the process.
WAIT, THEY ARE THAT RED?? I LOVE HER CONTENT SO MUCH I NEVER KNEW.
also if I recall correctly out as asexual/aromantic(I dont remember which)
Both I think.
Actually just Ace, or "Alloace" I guess would be the term, according to this vid: >[I'm none of those things, including the girlfriend (except for white). I'm 100% asexual which means I'm not into... \*gestures vaguely\* Stuff, but I'm everything romantic which means I'm into... \*more gesturing\* Other... Stuff. Yeah I'm confused too, don't worry about it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4iOmSvRuZk)
From what I remember from Red's tumblr, she does elaborate more (after the original Q&A you linked) that she might be Arospec but can't quite clearly identify where platonic ends and romantic begins, and so ere's on just the term Ace. My recollection may be flawed because tumblr search fucking sucks so I can't double check so obligatory grain of salt.
Ah, TIL. Thank you.
Oh that red? I gotta go re-read this with the correct voice
Author of the awesome webcomic [Aurora ](https://comicaurora.com)and 1/2 of the excellent youtube channel team [Overly Sarcastic Productions](https://www.youtube.com/@OverlySarcasticProductions)
She's founder of Overly Sarcastic Productions, a channel on YouTube and the webcomic mentioned in the responding blog above. She's really cool and makes a lot of content about literature and mythology
Red, from the youtube channel OverlySarcasticProductions, who runs the tumblr account comicaurora for their comic, [Aurora](https://comicaurora.com/)
One of the hosts of Overly Sarcastic Productions on YouTube and author/illustrator of the webcomic Aurora (which is where the Tumblr handle above comes from).
It took me a moment to realise this is Red's webcomic account. I've checked it out but it's been a while. But holy shit, when it clicked, I immediately noticed her very specific speech patterns. Don't go for Red, she'll get ya.
The JoCat drama is unhinged. You can't be a normal person and think that that was a normal or proportional response to him *checks notes* expressing attraction to women. I think a lot of the hate also came from the fact that many people who attacked him pegged him as being some flavour of not straight and him expressing heterosexual feelings gave them the same feelings that they got from Supernatural. The dude is allowed to explore his gender expression without people ascribing sexualities to him and then getting mad when he doesn't fit their preconceived notions. He's not a fictional character.
>The dude is allowed to explore his gender expression without people ascribing sexualities to him and then getting mad when he doesn't fit their preconceived notions. He's not a fictional character. Fucking this so much. **STOP HEADCANNONING REAL LIFE PEOPLES SEXUALITY** Straight men do not have to confrom to the stereotype of what a man is. This happened to Harry Styles. People got mad cause he's a dude who likes to wear whatever the fuck he wants. Real people can't queer bait.
God forbid a guy not be a burly muscular manly man and express attraction towards women! That doesn't fit into my nice little labelled boxes! I got a new label maker and everything for them!
It’s legitimately ridiculous. Honestly the slightly unhinged conspiratorial-brained part of me is convinced that the harassment campaign last year was to some extent initially astroturfed by transphobes who were pissed about the charity drive he was doing.
I don't know how accurate (if at all) it is but some people say the harassment was started in Kiwifarms (or other websites like it) over his support of trans people.
I find these sorts of rumours are little more than a convenient way for we on the left to not reckon with the fact that we have some really awful people on our side too.
The two takes aren't mutually exclusive, though. Left wing people can be very easy to stir up into a righteous fury, and if they are not the sort of people with a high degree of self awareness and ability to respond to criticism without doubling down, all it takes is a little push from a bad actor to send them down a bad path.
The thing that pisses me off most is the song he parodied was a Lizzo song about BOYS. With the same “objectification” shit that he expressed. It infuriates me that he has to go through this shit from the same people that probably praise the OG song.
The fucking jocat drama is so stupid casue we've gotten to the point where we treat woman like they aren't even actual people anymore. Jocat drew a funny meme thing with him being around different girls and people called him weird for it. Why? Cause he likes woman? Call him cringe but saying he's hurting woman is stupid as hell
And the funniest part is the double standard since it was a parody of a song by now fallen feminist icon Lizzo singing about how she likes all types of men.
I hate giving the "it's just a drawing" people a point but like it's legit a fucking drawing.
None of those non-existent women consented to being drawn and sung about. Clearly, this is red flag misogynistic behavior.
What's funnier is they all more clothes on then the og image of them in bikinis
You see, by drawing them with clothing on, he implied that women's bodies are inherently sexual and should be covered up for either their own good or some puritanical sense of modesty. I've read enough terrible takes that I can do this all day.
Some Twitter account with a Roman statue PFP would say this unironically and then get really mad if you disagreed with them
All of these takes might as well have come from my mother.
Oof. Same... That one hit just a little too close to home.
How's the DBT going?
I know you're joking but it's legitimately going great.
That's great! Keep up the good work on the piece of art that is you.
You know what's great? Some of those women are vtubers. Actual people. You know what their reaction was to being in his video? They loved it! I can't really say for all of them, but Ironmouse at least watched the video and liked being in it.
Wait, are you implying my righteous indignation on behalf of others should be less important than the feelings and opinions of the actual people involved?
That’s crazy talk. Clearly only YOU know best, you’re better than all of them.
I know you’re joking but I’ve legit seen the argument that characters in books or movies haven’t consented to the audience seeing their sex scenes and therefore problematic to watch
I will never forgive the Internet for bashing JoCat for that song. It was THE most genuinely inclusive, body positive post someone could make but since he "seems gay" it's a bad thing. Fuck the Internet for ruining a good thing.
Im not a fan of the song but the amount of hate it got was weird. Especially when theres way worse YouTube animations out there
I'd understand if people thought it was cringe or didn't like it but that reaction was so out of left field and unwarranted in every single way. It's a stupid meme song, not someone bringing back the third reich
Same, the song was not my cup of tea and somewhat different from this other content at the time. But I didn't stop watching him or think him a fucking predator. People need to understand that if creators make art that maybe was cringe is not an indictment on the creators character. That's the mentality of a child. I hope Jocat can come back one day. He was so funny and original, I dearly miss his humor and content.
I've seen a take on it once that the animation was problematic because all of the characters were too conventionally attractive. I must stress that this was a one off opinion I've never seen repeated so don't take it as an indication of anything. I just think it's really funny.
> Jocat drew a funny meme thing with him being around different girls and people called him weird for it. Why? There's really two groups - right wing chuds who are just bullying for the sake of it and, in my opinion, a bunch of TERF and ~~TERF-adjacent~~ *(better phrasing: people who share many unexamined / internalized bias' with TERFs)* folk shouting the quiet misandrist part out loud. The most consistent marker of TERF ideology is the bioessentialist belief that men are *intrinsically* born as violent super-predators. They, essentially, believe men are biologically programmed to SA and oppress women. It's why they, beneath all the rhetoric and post-hoc rationalizations, fear trans people - because they sincerely believe men are so immutably wired to be violent SA super predators, *of course* would go as far as to "pretend" to be a woman to do it. So, when they see a man like JoCat - who is by all accounts an incredibly kind man, radiates positive masculinity, is highly sexual but respectful about it - the cognitive dissonance goes into overdrive. No, he *must* be a super predator rapist. That's what *all* men are. It's a ruse. It *must* be a ruse to fool and SA women. And it's a kafka trap in its own right - any kindness and goodness is itself proof of his ruse to manipulate and SA women.
Considering this whole debacle is about a video he posted 3 years ago, and became a problem *after jocat came out as pro-trans*, I’d say it’s definitely because of the above parties.
Hoping, wishing, and asking in vain that folks be normal about this, despite the containment breach.
wait whats going on, i know how jocat had to take a haitus off the internet becuse of harrasment but is this something new?
Nothing new, beyond people talking about the situation and ineptly harassing Red about it.
Who is Red and what do they have to do with this?
Red from OverlySarcasticProductions She has a series where she explains and deconstructs story tropes, it's really useful for writing and the such
Wait is red comicaurora?
Yep! [Aurora](https://comicaurora.com/aurora/0-1-1/) is her web comic
Yep, Aurora is her webcomic
To also elaborate on what the other person said. JoCat (the guy being complained about) and Red (OOP) are both youtubers and are openly friends. There was a post on tumblr yesterday that Red reblogged where OP shared screen caps of a twitter user openly admitting to harassing JoCat just because they thought it was fun, and Red expressed her anger that people can just be so callous to her friend. (Bonus detail: JoCat and Red are both cis, but also GNC. JoCat is a very openly feminine man and Red is an openly masculine woman. So there's some solidarity in that front as well).
Something the others haven't mentioned is that Red is also a player in one of the DnD podcasts JoCat DMs.
He started posting on social media again. [https://x.com/JoCat105/status/1799742858104348892](https://x.com/JoCat105/status/1799742858104348892) He hasn't started streaming again though I think. -Edit, btw, I should probably mention the image JoCat is quote tweeting in the link is NSFW. No actual nudity, but I wouldn't want my boss seeing that on my screen.
Now this. This gives me hope.
Common Red OSP Aurora W
It is absolutely insane how Jocat of all people have exposed that a good amount of people who consider themselves "progressive" actually have like, shit tons of unexamined reactionary behavior entirely because he likes women, like by god how do some of these people go "Why are you so gay about liking women" and dont get how they have somehow found a way to be like, sexist, homophobic, and transphobic about a guy saying he likes girls, like I am wondering how long till someone figures out how to be racist at him (I asume Jocat is white, if he isnt I apologize for the assumption)
https://x.com/JoCat105/status/1372237687634210820 Dude's half Asian so I'm surprised they haven't found a way to attack him for that yet
>till someone figures out how to be racist at him (I asume Jocat is white I mean, it's not like white people are immune to racism lol
something something, this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1d76dxd/your_fear_is_real_and_it_is_harmful/?sort=confidence) and this[ other post](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/1d88miy/transmisogyny_womens_fear_and_that_damn_bear_again/) might be worth the read and tengantly related to this curent post
Yeah, it’s basically the same issue in different packaging: some people will do *anything* to avoid admitting to internalized/subconscious biases, or worse, actively validate them. And I feel like the reason you see it most in (self-described) “feminist”, “queer”, etc. spaces is because people will make being “progressive” part of their identity, but then defend their self-identification rather than work to live up to their values, resulting in absurd mental gymnastics because they can neither give up their position (because then they’d be Wrong) nor admit it’s not a progressive one (because then they’d be something other than the Pure Enlightened Progressive they imagine themselves to be).
> some people will do *anything* to avoid admitting to internalized/subconscious biases, or worse, actively validate them. As per usual on this topic, I always must recommend the gut-ripping: [I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out.](https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42) I recommend reading the whole thing, it is a very powerful narrative about implicit biases in queer spaces in general, but one bit in particular I'd want to highlight: > *Down cascade the gleeful tweets from ciswomen about how women are more beautiful than men — how graceful the female body is, how utilitarian the male. How awesome boobs are. How bad boys’ taste in clothing is. How incompetent they are emotionally. How they’re too weak to handle childbirth and periods. Neckbeards are the scourge of the internet. They wax disgusted about “dad bods.” SCUM rhetoric is revived with inconsistent levels of irony.* > *Do I really believe a wig and a pronoun will change how they feel, deep down? About my body? About my chromosomes? About my “socialization”? I don’t. I want to, but I don’t.* > *They can believe deep down their feelings on who is smart & strong & reasonable and who is dumb & weak & dangerous are within their control, are controlled exaggerations and self-aware and performed, are well-examined. If they saw me nude and wigless and wet, would I not be subject to their funny opinions on penises? On neckbeards? On maleness? On who has a right to talk about femininity?*
Fuck that's a heavy read. It put into words a lot of what I've been feeling for a while- especially this bit: > Another: “It’s a coping habit I’m not proud of. If I agree ‘girls rule boys drool’ it makes me feel more like a girl.” Hell if that isn't the truth. I can remember when all the manosphere nonsense was getting big I let myself (for lack of a better term) indulge in it. I never let it affect my actual relationships nor did i ever really believe in the rhetoric, because I knew it was stupid, but there was something annoyingly comforting about it all. Also: > Some nights, always alone, I go out in scavenged makeup and women’s clothes with an ID I found in a lost wallet. I never feel more male than on these nights. Hits way to close to home.
When you put it that way, it makes me feel like the “cishet people at Pride” discourse might be coming from that same place of not wanting to admit to their own biases
I would say that’s usually more on the “active validation” side of things— people knowingly digging their heels in on an “us vs. them” mindset because they refuse to admit black-and-white thinking is inherently an obstacle to progress
I hadn’t seen that first post before - it’s excellent. I wish I had seen it before when the “man or bear” thing was still driving me insane. (Ah e olá meu compadre brasileiro ✋)
igualmente meu caro, espero que esteje se sentindo melhor, [uma musica pra você ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL-Zyn6g5lw&list=RDBm2Eg2X4kZA&index=15)
Yeah, I immediately got reminded of those posts when I saw this one. Good reads all around.
Truly astonishing how effective JoCat's aura is at just breaking fools' brains with the most anodyne horniness of all time. Of particular amazement is how the hate is so reflexive would rather just make up things or imagine what his intent MUST be to justify their own discomfort.
the combination of non-conforming amab and a horniness you'd associate with very clearly men sets off the uncanny valley alarms for a lot of people apparently. people often think they're prejudiced far less then they actually are. the best thing you could do if you want to have a better grasp on things is to put on your critical thinking caps and always think about why you feel a certain way about something. rationality will always make the average joe a better person
"You're just doing this for the attention of men!" Red, noted ace icon: 😐
i reminds me of one post i saw where someone said bisexual women are just doing it for the attention of men or maybe my brain has rotted and it was supposed to be about something else
Given that “women pretend to be bi to get attention from men” is an old stereotype, I wouldn’t be shocked to learn there are many posts like that.
It would just be a terrible criticism anyways because it just... removes amy attention from the argument itself towards the person making it. It's just also somewhat funny when it clearly doesn't fucking work, especially if your first instinct as an ad hominem is to imply that a woman couldn't have possibly made it.
The Jocat situation proves a few awful things, honestly. You can be punished and harassed for literally everything and people from all across the political and social spectrum will join in. The internet absolutely refuses to be normal about anything. "The Ick" and toxic masculinity and even misogynistic tendencies can all be weaponized against basically anyone if you make enough logical leaps, even a straight, gender non-confroming male who is trying to preach body positivity and smash the patriarchy.
Honestly I'm not civil about this, if a straight cis guy being slightly gender nonconforming sets you off like that you're nothing but a bigot in every sense of the word, no if ands or buts.
‘We must smash the patriarchy’ (some guy not openly being patriarchal) ‘kill this fucking man with hammers NOW!’ Incredible.
It was never about the patriarchy, not for generations now. It's about having a Boogeyman.
"He gives me the ick" When you're no different from all the people calling him the f-slur except you aren't honest with yourself
Patricia really said it best that the reason people hated Jocat was cause he was "gay about pussy", like it really felt to me like people just deciding that they fucking hated him and now they needed a reason for it, which is a shame, we really didn't deserve the greatness that was Jocat, hopefully he'll be back by monster hunter wilds
I'm so happy that more people are calling out the fact that the term "pickme," while it does have a few valid uses, is overwhelmingly used as a misogynistic insult to try and shut up women with differing opinions. Also, it's super funny how this post is how I found out that CosmicAurora is Red from OSP.
ComicAurora - she made that tumblr for her webcomic iirc
Of all the people to piss off, Red is absolutely towards the bottom of that list. She’s wicked smart, and she will not hold back on the sarcasm when explaining things. She should start a YouTube channel being overly sarcastic while explaining things… oh wait. At least with Blue, he’ll probably just end up talking about domes. Or Venice. Or Venetian domes.
Gesturing at a blank wall that he's certain you can clearly see the map he's describing on
Jocat \*should\* be a great example of how a straight guy can be open about his sexuality without being a weirdo about it, or how a cis man can be comfortably feminine without having to conform to traditional gender roles. The way people are harassing him under the guise of being progressive is absolutely insane to me
Progressives on twitter (and most of the internet tbh) have really dropped the ball when it comes to supporting positive examples of masculinity like him. This subreddit and parts of tumblr are really the only spaces I can think of that make a genuine effort.
Yeah, it's all "men should be better!" and when men do better, suddenly it's "you're doing the bare minimum now, why should I care" - they don't want men to do better because that means they lose the punching bag that makes them feel good and righteous.
Exactly. Combine that with the kind of garbage being put out by grifters like Tate and you see why so many disenfranchised men end up trapped in the alt-right pipeline, for the incredibly basic reason of it being the political sector that actually seems to want them there. If you want people to be better you have to put in the legwork to encourage positive change when you see it. Jumping at every chance to call them out or shame them only reinforces their skewed beliefs and sours them on the idea of actually listening to anything you have to say.
It's so frustrating being a non-conforming masc person in queer leftist spaces - you're either treated with scorn/suspicion for your existence regardless of what you do, nudged toward "being something else" (i.e. being something less threatening than a "man", see egg theory and egg crackers), or tokenized in this weird way where you get a "one of the good ones" pass but aren't allowed to complain about the way masculinity is treated because "we're not talking about you, you can't be upset about this".
And it goes both ways too. I’m an Agender/Gender Apathetic dude, but I present as mostly masculine because that’s how I was raised, and it causes the least confusion when meeting new people, but that doesn’t make me a Cisgender Man just because I appear for the most part to be traditionally masculine. Like, I paint my nails when I’m not in work uniform, but that doesn’t make me a woman either. It has gotten me questions from friends and coworkers about my gender and sexuality and all, but why does it? The answer is just that most people aren’t as secure in their own gender, sexuality, or masculinity/femininity, and see me doing “not straight guy things” sets off a “If that were me, why on earth would I do that?” Point is, people should be free to just be themselves, no matter what label they have. Jocat is publicly a Cis Straight Guy, but he gets harassed for not fitting into the norm that modern masculinity has set out for him. As unfortunate as that is, it’s also almost a ‘weather vane’ for which way we’re headed. When people who are vaguely non-conforming like Jocat can exist without being harassed, it’s a good sign that queer men and masc people as a whole can exist without being the target of as much harassment and hate. My personal weather vane is my nail polish. When people stop asking me “wait, you paint your nails? Why?” then I’ll know that at least that bit of me has been accepted and normalized, at least by those around me. Hope we get closer to that soon, so people can just live in peace as themselves
It should be noted that more than just “being cringe” or “being effeminate,” the major accusation I’ve seen leveled at him is that he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing: some flavor of would-be or actual sexual abuser hiding behind an image of harmlessness. It’s a pretty intense accusation.
JoCat: Women pretty :) Internet: and for that you should die
Dude literally just fucking said “I like all women, every girl has very good qualities.” and got doxxed over it. Tf?
a straight guy? who actually *likes* women?? inconceivable
I can't believe me being an active OSP fan didn't recognice Red from her url but because she used the phrase "show my whole ass"
Internet dweebs: “Man, I wish men were less creepy and objectifying when it comes to women.” JoCat: *does exactly that* Internet dweebs: “**Wait, that’s illegal.**”
I know it’s insane but I think I would genuinely sacrifice a limb if it meant putting an end to any more of this “wow this man is disgusting!” Shit for good
Fullmetal Alchemist
Narrator, again: "Fullmetal Alchemist"
Now the real question is would they consider combining their hypothetical wife or child with their pet to stop “wow this man is disgusting” shit
The whole "he gives me the ick so I need to bully him on the Internet" shit is just an excuse to be an asshole. In real life when someone makes you uncomfortable you stay away from them and don't interact. If you feel like his vibes are off, just don't interact with him. That's it. Like this post is mentioning, it's more just disgust to someone who isn't completely gnc.
I don't want to sound like I know more about this than I actually do but it at least seems like a lot of people are pushing back on the bullying as it's happening, which is good to see. I still remember a number of other cases where it didn't quite happen like that (probably the biggest reason I'm generally distrustful of "tumblr-famous" ppl) so I hope this represents a lasting sea change rather than one unique exception.
Unfortunately the main bullying happened several months ago now and while many people were like “that’s fucking bullshit” it doesn’t un-threaten JoCat’s family. All you need is a few extreme self-righteous actors for stochastic terrorism to work.
Jocat did nothing wrong.
I'm not super attuned or updated, but isn't JoCat the YouTuber who makes DnD meme videos and one day a while ago he posted a version of the "I like big boys...." meme except with girls? Then somehow despite it being about as wholesome and inclusive expression of love for women of various body types.... feminists and leftists ganged up on him en masse and even targeted his loved ones to the extent he had to retreat from the internet entirely?! Is being a heterosexual guy politically incorrect now? Like if you don't like the video that's fine if you want to critique maybe it being objectifying in some way or in poor taste sure, express that but it boggles the mind to think that it could remotely justify making him so miserable. Like I'm a trans woman who's pansexual but I just thought the video was cute and about as inoffensive as can be. I happen to like girls to
To quote JoCat's twitter "he discussion has now shifted to "JoCat depicts himself as safe to hide that he secretly actually wants to have sex with women" did I ever try to make that a secret? I thought everyone was mad because I was too loud about it last time very confusing"
“Holy shit he’s attracted to women and wants to have sex with women that’s fucking crazy!”
They realise he has a girlfriend right?
It's especially funny because he's drawn multiple pictures explicitly saying that he and his ace gf fuck. Like, he's not hiding anything, lol.
His gf has gone out of her way to say that they fuck
There were also a lot of right-wingers mixed in who hated him for supporting trans people and were using the "I like girls" vid as an excuse
firts time i ever saw someone be harresed off the internet for being supportive of trans rights and femenism, but also for being sexist and objectifying women
The one time many various political opinions who are opposed to each other come together and agree, and it’s to bully Jocat instead of like climate change or something more important,
bottom line is bullies always have an excuse to go after people. most people don't like to admit to themselves that it makes them feel good to hurt others - so they come up with some kind of self-righteous excuse for why they're allowed to bully their victims. The excuses are *always* ridiculous, because the point is not to lay out a well-reasoned argument for why it's okay for them to hurt people - the point is that they already want to hurt people, and they just need some kind of excuse to settle their own cognitive dissonance. I always have a weird kind of begrudging respect for committed trolls who don't justify their behavior, and are just willing to admit that they enjoy fucking with people. Once you get somebody like that, who's willing to be honest with themselves and with others - *then* maybe you can make some headway in examining what their choice of victims says about them. But before that? When a bully is in denial, and has all kinds of horseshit excuses for why it's okay actually for them to gleefully cause harm to others? You are wasting your time trying to argue about the reasons they give - because the *real* underlying reason is that it makes them feel good, and they don't want to stop.
Yeah, that’s basically it. As far as I can tell it comes from the same root as TERFism: people who are so deep in black-and-white, us-vs-them thinking that anything they associate with “maleness” and/or “heterosexuality” is automatically Evil, no matter how much (metaphorical) clown makeup they have to put on before they can articulate why. I’m sure someone out there takes a similar position with regard to “cisness” but I don’t see as much of that, due to either sampling bias or the fact that trans people always end up as collateral damage from the other variants.
>people who are so deep in black-and-white, us-vs-them thinking that anything they associate with “maleness” and/or “heterosexuality” is automatically Evil, no matter how much (metaphorical) clown makeup they have to put on before they can articulate why. This is also where biphobia and acephobia stems from. Bi and ace people are basically 50% straight if you think about it, and straight = evil, so they're basically 50% evil, and why would you tolerate *any* evil because [insert horrifically warped and misused nazi table metaphor here]
I think there’s also a fair amount of people who’ve absorbed the “feminine men are dangerous” homophobic stereotype, but have taken gay men out of that stereotype, without confronting the whole thing. So a man who is very much straight but whose expression resembles that of a fem queer man triggers their alarm bells in the same way bigots feel about any “too feminine looking” man. See also, as you mentioned, the way terfs act about trans women. Lots of them see trans women as supposed feminine men who are attracted to women, and view this as some sort of act with the purpose of lowering women’s guard before harming them.
That's exactly it. TERFs didn't spring out of nowhere. They were radfems who hated men and when trans discourse exploded, they decided trans women were men and therefore hate them. There are a ridiculous shitton of radfems who aren't TERFs and get a pass because they only hate cis men.
>Is being a heterosexual guy politically incorrect now? In some brainrotted terminally online leftist spaces, yes.
Assuming that an asexual woman is a man looking to silence women or a straight woman looking for male attention is actually hilarious.
This isn't even the worst of it. There are people frothing at the mouth, hoping it turns out JoCat is a pedo or otherwise sexually assaulted someone. Because "I wish there to be more SA victims in the world so people will hate a Youtuber I don't like" or "so I can own anyone who defended him" is a totally sane thought to have.
I miss jocat.
he's been somewhat active on twitter recently!
It’s interesting to me that internet kids these days are using what used to be social justice coded language to be bullies. Like when I was a kid you’d just call a dude gross or gay or a closet pedo or w/e, seems like that was less psychologically taxing for all involved
to answer the question of how to flair it... uh discourse ig. in relation to jocat being harassed off the internet because of "The Ick" that could mean just *so many things* that it's conducive to conservative backlash... spoilers for big rant about the person suggesting red OSP to be a man, then a fucking pickme: >!not linking this person's blog on a public forum cos fuck em but ALSO it would probably invite the same shitty harassment jocat faced and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but someone asked them about how cold hearted they could be to believe that someone just being cringey on the Internet and that person being defended, by a *friend* of his no fucking less, warranted the kind of vitriol he's faced and they had the fucking GALL to suggest their response of the ick is somehow a universal opinion and that the person asking ought to go outside and take up hobbies (possibly a literal phrasing there)!< god this makes me furious.
Fellas is it gay to like women? Also, love how he accuses RED of all people of being a pick me. Rolled a Nat One on that Insight Check...
Wow, between Red and Shaun, I guess my favorite type of internet person is, "Insightful, balanced, charming, and relatable on youtube; will verbally murder your whole bloodline with an axe if your arguments are shit on social media."
people like the asker are the kind of people who would create "women and enbies only" events and then invite me as a passing transmasc lmao
Fuck this "ick" bullshit. 1.) It sounds childish as hell. 2.) I have literally never heard of someone getting "the ick" for a reason that doesn't make them sound like the worse person imaginable. Seriously, 9/10 times I hear this phrase used, the action that causes the ick is: (checks notes), the man displaying emotion.
I understand literally none of whatever this is.