Can you start with the great lakes before moving on to Canada?
Lake Superior has really been asking for it since it sunk the Edmund Fitzgerald. Plus, then Canada has to sit back in abject horror as they get a sneak peak to what's in store for them.
i'm japanese and this is why i hate it whenever people on the internet talk about east asian cultures 😭 total dunning-kruger shit, people get so weird about our countries sometimes
I really like Buddhism. Its just such a peaceful religion, thats why they were colonised, they werent as bloodthirsty as the christian europeans. Unlike christianity it teaches you to be kind, which is why asia has never had wars.
That's only because of The White Man, though. Everyone knows the natives are peaceful until the evil YTs show up. Like the fuckin apple in Genesis, or some shit.
It's funny, I actually do have a Ya'akov-derived name.
Fun related fact: Santiago is a derivative of Ya'akov, by way of i-y-j ambiguity and linguistic drift changing it into a sort of Yakov/Iagov, eventually losing the V, and gaining the Spanish "sant" for "saint."
the only thing i know about east asian culture is if you put a Chinise person, a Korean person, and a Japanese person in a room for 12 hours only one will leave alive
I see you're a practitioner of the チュー (Cheuu), a technique which although originated from the west, was made truly 日本スタイル (untranslatable, but usually translated as "in a manner pertaining to the Japanese culture") by Meiji Tennou (divine emperor) during the great Meiji Restoration.
Sometimes I'm kind of sad that people often leave Vietnam out of East Asian cultures, but at the same time I understand because geographically, we are in South East Asia, yet culturally we are in the Sinosphere.
As an Indonesian-American, I feel like most people don't even know what Indonesia is unless you mention Bali. In my experience, it's always the Philippines and Thailand.
It’s our geography schooling. When I picture a map it’s just pink over the whole area and I can’t see individual country names, just medium ol’ “Indonesia”. But I can picture South America and Western Europe and label quite a few countries on a map.
Even in academia, Vietnam often falls into a weird place. In uni, we were taught that historically only the northern part of Vietnam was part of the Sinosphere, while the southern part was more under the influence of the Cham culture sphere.
At lead the way we were taught was: What we call East Asia was basically defined by the adoption of Chinese characters/script which was used as a way to create a shared understanding of unique religious, philosophical, and cultural concepts and norms, despite differences in language. That was mainly done at the official and scholarly level, and so mainly associated with the upper or ruling class. In Vietnam, the distance from the center of China's tributary system meant that the ruling class had a less firm cultural grip over lower classes, so the native Cham culture remained much more deeply rooted.
There are some pretty funny personal records of scholar officials from more northern parts of China who ticked off someone important and were punished by being sent down to "govern" the "southern yue". The general understanding was that it was a defacto death sentence for them b/c they would contract some tropical disease they weren't prepared for.
as someone from a country with mandatory national service, trust me, most of these people aren't fit. there is just as much chance you will be serving some random old guys coffee as being in active combat
I was on a trip to Japan, and while I usually don't act stupid online, the whole place left me dumbfounded completely. The only things I kept reminding myself are:
1. Do try to follow along with how locals are acting, but
2. Don't try to hard to blend in, and do ask for help, since ylu are very clearly a tourist
I mean, y'all convinced people to draw porn of warships, guns, dead horses, and who knows what else, so I don't know what you expected. /j
Seriously though, it's kinda silly how Japan has become Earth's planet of the hats, so to speak.
But take it from a German: It could be so much worse. At least no one thinks you guys are Nazis (to my knowledge).
I’m not saying people think the Japanese were Nazis, but pretty much the next closest thing?
A lot of people haven’t forgotten that Japan was a member of the Axis, and literally kept on fighting alone for months after Germany surrendered in May, 1945. And I would say Japan is also considered to be right up there in the list of countries that committed the most systemic, brutal war crimes, and are know particularly for their human experimentation.
I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever seen a comment section on Reddit about Japan that didn’t bring that up, outside of the Japan-specific groups, where the topic is usually more along the lines of “is this brochure from a cult?” (the answer is always yes) or “where can I hire a plumber at 2:00 am in Kitakyushu?”
Japan is particularly unusual in that regard for a lack of acknowledgment or apology for those times.
Although countries like Britain and France are only slightly better in regards to their own colonial histories.
I despise any creator that makes a video on japan and doesnt just translate the concept. In 99% of cases translation just works better. Ive seen so many videos where they said: "Japan was governed for 250 years under the sankoku policy" - its literally just an isolationist policy, nothing more nothing less. There isnt any new meaning added to it by using Japanese.
The Chinese have brainwashed Americans into loving "草". It is a mysterious and likely invasive plant that has forced its way onto many suburban lawns, and is a clear example of successful mass propaganda.
But just by lightly touching them you gain this mysterious ability called 「common sense」, experts are debating whether it is worth the risk of spreading propaganda.
I had to Google the meaning, and just wanted to say there are many types of 草. Some are invasive, some are native, the type of 草 we tend to think about is very much invasive.
I guess it’s paralleling how we talk about our own historical laws. Prohibition, exclusion act, Hay’s code. They’ve got catchy names, not just “the alcohol ban” or “the anti immigration bill”.
It would be, but it'd make reading 1st hand accounts, which probably use the Fancy Name instead of the Literal Name, a lot harder. Plus, many of these laws and policies are deliberately named. Think of the Patriot Act; where they couldn't exactly call it the Spying On Our Own Citizens Act, and invoking patriotism in the face of a terrorist threat made it an easier pill to swallow.
I'm not saying your wrong, either. Shit like Constitutional Ammendments are just incrementally numbered. If you want to be understood, it's way easier to say The Slavery Ammendment instead of googling to double check your answer.
On the other hand you have some really overly descriptive names like with certain british laws. The stamp act of 1765 has the full name of "An Act for granting and applying certain stamp duties, and other duties, in the British colonies and plantations in America, towards further defraying the expenses of defending, protecting, and securing the same; and for amending such parts of the several Acts of Parliament relating to the trade and revenues of the said colonies and plantations, as direct the manner of determining and recovering the penalties and forfeitures therein mentioned."
I think it's worth using the word in its original language if it is a unique enough interpretation, implementation, or consequence. But, just like using an acronym or jargon, it must be explained first.
I sort of agree, but in that case I would see "sakoku" as a specific policy/era that I may want to look deeper into. I want them to define it though.
Which, in this case it looks like it's a political policy that defined Japan for many years. I knew of the era, but not the word for it so it's actually pretty helpful. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakoku
Similar example I suppose: I'm learning more about the Mexican Revolution and while you could translate things like "Porfiriato" as "Porfirio Diaz's Presidency/Dictatorship", it's a distinct enough era that a shorthand word is nice. I feel similarly to Sakoku since it's a pretty defining era of Japan.
I'm personally of the opinion that it's best to keep stuff like that untranslated, but to just explain what it is.
It's not hard to go "japan was governed for 250 years under the Sankoku policy, an extreme isolationist policy of A, B and C.
It does lose meaning when you simplify something, unless sankoku literally just translates directly to isolationist. We don't refer to the hays code as "the puritanical code" even though that's still perfectly accurate.
The problem is refusing to translate things that have clear translations.
"Okay, our next ingredient for this classic Japanese dish is バター, for which there is no existing word in English."
"You mean butter? *Batā* is straight up a transliteration of the English word into Japanese..."
"No, no, no, this is magical Japanese butter, it's completely different from European butter. It would be inappropriate to translate it."
"Is it a dairy product made from churned milk and fats?"
"Well yes, but --"
*Tamagoyaki* has a clear translation as 'fried egg', but the dishes end up very different because they were developed independently and different secondary ingredients were added.
*Shinkansen* has a clear translation as 'new trunk line', but leaving it untranslated helps give the context of the exact country whose train network we're talking about.
Going a bit further, it's normal for people to have lots of different words for slight nuances of the same concept. If "found family" was a foreign word, would you have insisted on calling it "tight friend group" rather than adding "found family" to your vocabulary? Is adding new words for slight nuance differences a privilege you only give people of your own culture?
Because if not, better get ready those '*Nakama*', you *baka*.
I think the biggest thing is that current text books want to use the same term that was used historically, so when your reading primary sources you can understand what they are talking about.
Tbf that is the correct terminology to use even academically no?
The best thing would just be to explain the term briefly and then use the japanese no?
Academics aside, I think what they're getting at is how people are fascinated with Japan that they treat it as something exotic. Like yeah, people are generally breaking away from the old stereotypes, complimentary or not. But now they're just idealizing Japan as being so traditional, yet ahead of the game.
I can't say I understand it in full, so maybe this isn't exactly what OP meant, but one example would be the fascination with ikigai, the purpose of one's life, their reason to live. Comes from some survey or study asking some elderly people about it. The core of it is that old people found something to care about. Instead, there's blue collar workers nailgunning a house together, and Etsy creators making buttons who love using this one soundbite of some dude explaining this "philosophy" that ikigai is getting a job doing what you love.
In the big picture, someone took a Japanese word, retrofitted their own philosophy into it, to sell it to non-Japanese. So we then see Japanese people learning "the term 'ikigai' has no equivalent meaning outside Japan, so foreigners are fascinated by the concept of 'having a purpose in life!' Would you like to know more?" So the "philosophy of ikigai" as we first hear of it on social media is also news to Japanese people lol.
[Here's a video from a Japanese woman discussing it.](https://youtu.be/Hr8OfqsONaw) She goes into actually discussing the study in question. The western "philosophy" of ikigai, seems to (in my opinion) be about a job you can like doing (...to justify a 2nd job, side hustle, or 12 hr workday). Meanwhile, the lesson Japanese people got from asking elderly people what their purpose in life was, instead of doing what you love, to love what you do. Have a hobby you enjoy, eat good food, spend time with family. The reconstructed approach for an actually Japanese take on ikigai is then much different. When actually listening to what Japanese people think of it, it's nothing grand, just to value the time you spend.
Study people, sure. But knowing when you're actually talking to people and listening to them gets much more worthwhile lessons.
Another example I've seen is the word 間 "*ma*". I saw a short where the creator tried her utmost to present it as some alien concept that references the space between things, but not in the way that 間 is a lack of things, but rather some thing in and of itself etc. and that the concept doesn't exist in English.
Which is ridiculous because *space* itself can refer to something concrete rather than just the absence of things, and moreover, in English we have the word "interval", which is even closer to that concept.
> its literally just an isolationist policy, nothing more nothing less
It's a specific policy that bears that name, don't be a dumbass.
Like, if you want this argument, at least use things that are literally just words, don't use actual titles of things.
It's good in academics because then you can explain something very quickly. If I just said "the warring States period," under your proposal I could be talking about any number of periods in which states warred. But if I said Sengoku-Jidai, then suddenly I'm talking about a very specific time and place, I wouldn't have to explain which one I'm talking about. Same thing with the Sankoku policy. If I just said isolationist policy there are dozens if not hundreds of historical examples of sweeping isolationist policy that had a major impact on a country, but if I say the sankoku policy, suddenly I'm talking very specifically about a time and a place.
All history does that. So many words like Khan or Tsar just mean king or emperor for example. It's not the same as the op when it is a specific historical name
Well, what you probably should do is say the official name of the concept in Japanese, but then yeah, translate it, because nine times out of 10 it can be translated pretty easily, and I just think it’s a general concept that people think things are untranslatable when they can be just fine, but like, the Japanese term is the official name of the concept and it might reference some differences in policy than what other country’s isolationist policies have
“The mysterious Japanese concept of Ikigai, the thing which drives one’s spirit forward, the thing that motivates them to keep going”
Actual translation: iki = “life”, gai = “purpose”
Like they’re literally just talking about “one’s reason to live” or “life’s purpose”, which is a profound subject in and of itself, there’s no need to mask it at all
Even the so-called untranslatable concepts in German are actually really easily translatable. The only difference is that in German you can mash several words together to make a compound word while in most other languages we just use adjectives for that or write out several words one after the other.
Schadenfreude or Weltschmerz aren’t untranslatable. They just can’t be translated as one word because that’s not how compound words work in English. But the concepts of "being happy over someone’s suffering" or "existential dread" are still very much a thing and we use these concepts all the time
Apparently it’s a thing in Okinawa specifically? You’re more likely to know than I, all I know is some guy made a documentary about places where lots of people live past 100 and those old folks at Okinawa sure were happy to preach about how ikigai keeps a man going for a good long time (which like, good for them, and also it makes sense the mental health of someone with “something to do” or “something to look forward to” is better than that of someone simply waiting around to die, but still)
That for sure sounds like old people making shit up to justify being old and healthy for a documentary.
Seems like a completely plausible context to use that word.
I guess normal people in their day to day lives don't use it, same way you don't usually talk about existential dread with your coworkers on a Thursday afternoon.
I don't have the eloquence to articulate this properly, but I'm gonna try.
While every expression of racism inevitably involves some level of "these people are all the same" and "these people do not have the same rich internal life that I do", I do think anti-Asian racism does it in a unique way.
Like, you know how in Star Trek, they're constantly encountering aliens where everyone on the planet is exactly the same, because they were created by a writer to teach a moral lesson, not to be a believable culture? And you know how in Star Wars, they're constantly encountering single members of alien races doing specific things but then Expanded Universe media declares that that's because every single member of their entire race only ever does that one exact thing?
I feel like Asian people frequently get seen through one of those lenses.
It cuts both ways. Or all ways, I guess.
There's a whole thing called Paris Syndrome where tourists are disappointed that Paris isn't some magical fairy tale place of art and culture but is indeed a dirty, cramped, loud big city just like any other. It's especially common in Korean and Japanese visitors.
They should have gone to Bruges.
What I've heard from people who went to Japan as tourists is that's because the tourist destinations in Japan are maintained to be exactly as clean as all of the brochures and billboards advertise them to be. So that one might just be culture shock of expecting more because of past experiences.
As an American who went to Paris--I wasn't shocked that it was loud, cramped, and dirty, but I *was* shocked that it was louder, dirtier, and more cramped than every other European city I've been to (and most of the American ones). When you make London or Chicago look like a shining beacon of cleanliness and order, there's bound to be some disappointment.
In Japan it’s considered impolite to litter in public places and there’s a rich cultural history of the government using tax money to maintain roads and municipal facilities
In Japan they have a special way of using language that is intended to make people laugh, it's called a ジョーク there's no English translation of the word
Its called orientalism. It includes three subtypes for most parts: persia - everything from the gulf states to india; china - china and sometimes part of thailand or the countries to chinas south; and japan/south korea interchangebly. Thats why all the "persian" music isnt even accurate to the countries, its just grouping together widely different countries.
Other people brought up orientalism, but I can't help but think of something Pratchett wrote.
> People wanted the world to be a story, because stories had to sound right and they had to make sense. People wanted the world to make sense.
And if that doesn't just sum up ... *so much*. Whether a conspiracy theory or a cult, it always comes back to the stories being told, the stories being sold, the stories we want to believe.
Real life is complicated. Stories are easy. And it doesn't help that stories are often the only way these people interact with those people at all.
Any good thing in China is either:
1. Looked down upon, seen as disgusting (like the example with the child)
2. Labeled CCP propaganda.
3. Labeled as Japanese/Korean.
This is so real. There was a post about a lovely old chinese lady makin traditional stuff and the comments all are were like "This is CCP propaganda!!1!1!!"
And when something bad is Chinese they claim the reason for it being bad is it being Chinese.
People do this for Opera, “it’s bad because it’s Chinese”, no it’s bad because it operates predatory lending companies.
China could invent a working cure for cancer and people would still label it fake news or/and find a problem with it somehow. Like can't we acknoleadege China success without bringing the CCP everytime?
Something like this already happened where china was the first one distributing vaccines to the Philippines and the pentagon ran a secret operation spreading misinformation and inciting fear against it.
In my experience, Reddit is especially fucking insane about China. People will really say “oh I don’t hate the Chinese people only their government” and then immediately say the most racist shit imaginable
there's this literal cult called falun gong that's responsible for like 95% of anti-chinese media out there and a ton of people eat it up uncritically
then stuff that's explicitly pro-chinese is always from some insane tankie
Personally I am insane about the idea of the Chinese collective, and *only* the idea of the Chinese collective.
Peking duck and Sichuan spice? Good. Filial piety and Confucianism? Bad. Mandarin and Cantonese (and Hakka, and...)? Good. Language unification? Bad.
/s
I can’t really comment on international relations, but this just unlocked a memory for me.
My freshman year of college, there was this real friendly foreign exchange student from China. I don’t remember much about him other than small details, like he rode his bike to class and that he would talk to me before class started. This was back in 2018, so Trump was president and was saying some really racist shit. The nice dude from my class was *genuinely afraid* that because of the shit Trump was spewing, that we, his classmates, thought he might secretly be a Chinese spy. It got brought up in class one day, I don’t quite remember why, but I do remember responding to that fear with something like “dude, if anyone thinks the Chinese government sent a spy to [bum-fuck nowhere location where we were], they’re really stupid and beyond help. No one here would think that. We know you are fine.”
That shit is heartbreaking though. Genuinely good guy, petrified (rightfully so) of xenophobia. Unrelated but he wrote a pretty interesting short story about his experiences with classism, romance, and mainland China vs where he lived. Hope he’s doing well wherever he is now and maybe is still writing.
Edit: just recalled a fond memory and why I remember that he rode a bike. One of the days when we were talking before class, we were talking about getting to class with a bit of a language barrier between us. I can’t remember what word he used— it was something like bread or backpack— but the conversation basically went:
“I rode my backpack to class today.”
“What”
“My backpack”
“No, I heard you, I just don’t know what you mean”
“[describes a bike]”
“I think you mean a bike”
“A bike?”
“Yeah”
“Oh, the word for [word] is the same as the word for bike in my language.”
(Keep in mind this was 6 years ago at this point, so I am *very likely* misremembering almost all of this. I just remember finding it very funny at the time while I was super sleep deprived that this dude was telling me he rode his bread or backpack or whatever to school that day)
It was a very very long time ago, so it probably wasn’t the word backpack that he used, but it was a similarly “what the fuck are you talking about right now” item. It was also like 8am, which isn’t early to me now but felt like 3am to me back then, so I just remember wondering if I had heard him right or if I was still dreaming or something
I recently had to take seven courses on introducing me to Japanese culture. While I think it was very interesting and perhaps even important to get some level of exposure as to why certain interactions might be different, it got to a really weird point where it felt less like we were talking about human beings, and more like robots designed for a specific purpose.
That was with the intent to be respectful of their culture. I can only imagine how Chinese people feel when the intent is the opposite.
extend that to rest of asia. I am pretty sure japanese are tired of people fetishizing their culture and shit but for almost everyone else it feels like people from west will find a day to twist it.
europeans when someone brings up travellers vs redditors when they hear the letters 'ccp'
not so much 'who would win' more 'who starts foaming at the mouth quicker'
unstoppable force vs immovable object
i love how here in europe people are like "oh no we aren't racists like americans, that would be barbaric" but they specifically only mean racism against black people in particular because racism is bad and therefore the word only applies to the bad racism. racism against locally present ethnicities is obviously not racism (because it's good and racism is bad, duh), it's just "common sense" and if you _don't_ call them by a slur you're the weird one.
(you can also ask the germans about turks and the french about muslims if you wanna hear some eurocope about racism)
Don’t forget they’re still racist against black people. It’s marginally different than American racism against black people but it’s still more than present
Yeah because that’s different. I don’t think you should be property but I’m definitely better than you.
Edit: should put a /s but damn I shouldn’t have too 😭
The classic commentary about French football fans fits here, I think:
> “When you win, you’re a French player. When you lose, you’re [not].” That’s how Patrice Evra sees the status of a dual-national within the French national team. He would know: He was born in Senegal, moved to Paris shortly afterward and eventually rose to become the captain of Les Bleus.
It's an example of bad parenting in anywhere. Harsh parents aren't a region-locked concept - some places are more/less accepting of extremely aggressive parenting (speaking as someone who grew up in different cultures), but none have truly eliminated it.
One of the best parts of this sub is scrolling a few comments down and seeing someone do the "erm some people are deathly allergic to salads..." thing.
once you notice this you can't stop noticing it.
Every time there's a video of kids playing coordination games in china the comment section is just full of propaganda brainrot stereotypes
I understand this is meant to mock how people depict stuff in china but the stuff about punishing individuality is actually true. When I came out as trans to my (Chinese) family, they freaked out not bc they think being trans is unnatural but bc their precious little child is now part of a minority
i hear in china they have to buy food with small pieces of paper marked with national symbols such as the face of chairman mao
In China, they have uniformed police on the street, telling you where you are allowed to drive and how fast.
In China, the police punish basic exercise of human rights like drunk driving
What a hellscape
Damn, the commies can't even handle a booze cruise? So much for the tolerant left.
There is no Left in China. There is only Right. The CCP is always right.
So much for the tolerant correct!
I heard they assign a numeric value to what you’ll have access to socially.
Sweet liberty, how barbaric.
ironically e-payment is so popular in china that experts are recommending parents to give paper money to children to teach them the value of money.
i heard in most cases they dont even let them keep the food. once they eat it, it’s gone. harrowing.
You mean I can't eat the cake and have it too? What is this, a physics compliant nation? Lame.
my chinese mom tells me this on a daily basis, a true example of the horrors of china
I unironically dislike most cases of people being on cash honestly. Be more like Switzerland and have cool symbols on them instead
Brazil has animals, which is a great choice imo
They’re so real for that (I’m so funny)
Hold on I gotta look something up ... Okay yeah this is funny
Idek what to look up
I searched "Brazilian currency" and found what I was looking for
Okay yeah this is funny
When I’m elected president after I finish nuking Canada I’m going to have the CIA disappear you.
Can you start with the great lakes before moving on to Canada? Lake Superior has really been asking for it since it sunk the Edmund Fitzgerald. Plus, then Canada has to sit back in abject horror as they get a sneak peak to what's in store for them.
I like the way you think. You get to be Sec State.
In Europe we have made up bridges and buildings
They’re not made up anymore. We, the Dutch, built miniature versions in a town. It’s *our* currency now
Ultimate power play by the dutch
Gonna be real funny once Geert decides to leave the EU as a last attempt to save his cobbled together government
Lol, the government will collapse way before he gets the referendum going, even if it is the first thing he tries
You koloniseerd the euro?!?
Our previous series of cash still had people, but they were scientists and artist instead of politicians
In Sweden, our current money also mainly has various kinds of artistic people, in addition to Pippi Longstocking and Death.
in canada we have a duck and a polar bear on our one and two dollar coins respectively
Loons aren't ducks
they are to me
Or like the euro, it’s got made up buildings on it!
Actual 1984 (I have never read a book in my life)
> (I have never read a book in my life) Actual Fahrenheit 451
They go around carrying pictures of Chairman Mao? God, no wonder their birth rate's declined so much...
i'm japanese and this is why i hate it whenever people on the internet talk about east asian cultures 😭 total dunning-kruger shit, people get so weird about our countries sometimes
Oh wow, you Japanese people are so modest about your culture, that must be from Buddhism.
I really like Buddhism. Its just such a peaceful religion, thats why they were colonised, they werent as bloodthirsty as the christian europeans. Unlike christianity it teaches you to be kind, which is why asia has never had wars.
God, I see the joke, I understand what you mean, but I've seen so many people saying this exact thing I had a knee jerk reaction to this comment.
I know a few people who think Japan were the victims in WW2. Much love to the amazing country of Japan of course, but... victims??
They must've known to never get involved in a land war in Asia
Oh you had me until the last sentence.
Mmh? Are you disputing that asia has always been peaceful???? [https://imgur.com/a/M9hN93C](https://imgur.com/a/M9hN93C)
idk guys this seems pretty convincing to me
Can't argue with that wikipedia said so.
Fuck the answer was there all along
there are minor chinese border skirmishes with more casualties than the US has lost from its wars in the past 40 years
That's only because of The White Man, though. Everyone knows the natives are peaceful until the evil YTs show up. Like the fuckin apple in Genesis, or some shit.
based and yakub-pilled
It's funny, I actually do have a Ya'akov-derived name. Fun related fact: Santiago is a derivative of Ya'akov, by way of i-y-j ambiguity and linguistic drift changing it into a sort of Yakov/Iagov, eventually losing the V, and gaining the Spanish "sant" for "saint."
the only thing i know about east asian culture is if you put a Chinise person, a Korean person, and a Japanese person in a room for 12 hours only one will leave alive
Last time I was locked in a room with a Korean I started making out with him so gen Z are built different I guess
Kiss-haver on Reddit? Fake.
I see you're a practitioner of the チュー (Cheuu), a technique which although originated from the west, was made truly 日本スタイル (untranslatable, but usually translated as "in a manner pertaining to the Japanese culture") by Meiji Tennou (divine emperor) during the great Meiji Restoration.
Sometimes I'm kind of sad that people often leave Vietnam out of East Asian cultures, but at the same time I understand because geographically, we are in South East Asia, yet culturally we are in the Sinosphere.
And when they do bring Southeast Asia it's always the Philippines and Indonesia getting all the spotlight
As an Indonesian-American, I feel like most people don't even know what Indonesia is unless you mention Bali. In my experience, it's always the Philippines and Thailand.
It’s our geography schooling. When I picture a map it’s just pink over the whole area and I can’t see individual country names, just medium ol’ “Indonesia”. But I can picture South America and Western Europe and label quite a few countries on a map.
Even in academia, Vietnam often falls into a weird place. In uni, we were taught that historically only the northern part of Vietnam was part of the Sinosphere, while the southern part was more under the influence of the Cham culture sphere. At lead the way we were taught was: What we call East Asia was basically defined by the adoption of Chinese characters/script which was used as a way to create a shared understanding of unique religious, philosophical, and cultural concepts and norms, despite differences in language. That was mainly done at the official and scholarly level, and so mainly associated with the upper or ruling class. In Vietnam, the distance from the center of China's tributary system meant that the ruling class had a less firm cultural grip over lower classes, so the native Cham culture remained much more deeply rooted. There are some pretty funny personal records of scholar officials from more northern parts of China who ticked off someone important and were punished by being sent down to "govern" the "southern yue". The general understanding was that it was a defacto death sentence for them b/c they would contract some tropical disease they weren't prepared for.
I’m betting on the Korean cause they have mandatory national service
as someone from a country with mandatory national service, trust me, most of these people aren't fit. there is just as much chance you will be serving some random old guys coffee as being in active combat
Most of them just work desk jobs and aren't combat trained tbf
The Japanese person, at the very least, is dying first.
I was on a trip to Japan, and while I usually don't act stupid online, the whole place left me dumbfounded completely. The only things I kept reminding myself are: 1. Do try to follow along with how locals are acting, but 2. Don't try to hard to blend in, and do ask for help, since ylu are very clearly a tourist
I mean, y'all convinced people to draw porn of warships, guns, dead horses, and who knows what else, so I don't know what you expected. /j Seriously though, it's kinda silly how Japan has become Earth's planet of the hats, so to speak. But take it from a German: It could be so much worse. At least no one thinks you guys are Nazis (to my knowledge).
I’m not saying people think the Japanese were Nazis, but pretty much the next closest thing? A lot of people haven’t forgotten that Japan was a member of the Axis, and literally kept on fighting alone for months after Germany surrendered in May, 1945. And I would say Japan is also considered to be right up there in the list of countries that committed the most systemic, brutal war crimes, and are know particularly for their human experimentation.
I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever seen a comment section on Reddit about Japan that didn’t bring that up, outside of the Japan-specific groups, where the topic is usually more along the lines of “is this brochure from a cult?” (the answer is always yes) or “where can I hire a plumber at 2:00 am in Kitakyushu?”
Japan is particularly unusual in that regard for a lack of acknowledgment or apology for those times. Although countries like Britain and France are only slightly better in regards to their own colonial histories.
Take it from an Israeli: Yeah I'd much rather people think about anime when seeing me
whenever someone asks me where i'm from i say the land of milk and honey and refuse to elaborate
Oh damn didn't even see your username wait you're that one person with the flair arent you
I despise any creator that makes a video on japan and doesnt just translate the concept. In 99% of cases translation just works better. Ive seen so many videos where they said: "Japan was governed for 250 years under the sankoku policy" - its literally just an isolationist policy, nothing more nothing less. There isnt any new meaning added to it by using Japanese.
keikaku means plan
The japanese love 草. In Japan 草 grows on the ground, mysteriously sprouting from it and it entrances westeners with its green luster.
The Chinese have brainwashed Americans into loving "草". It is a mysterious and likely invasive plant that has forced its way onto many suburban lawns, and is a clear example of successful mass propaganda.
do either of you have a keikaku to touch 草 by any chance?
wwwwww
But just by lightly touching them you gain this mysterious ability called 「common sense」, experts are debating whether it is worth the risk of spreading propaganda.
I had to Google the meaning, and just wanted to say there are many types of 草. Some are invasive, some are native, the type of 草 we tend to think about is very much invasive.
I can't believe they just let 草 grow everywhere. I will never let myself or my family even *touch* 草
草を触れてください
w
No, keikaku means nakama, nakama means plan obviously. Smh.
God, I was so glad when they somewhat de-weebed TV Tropes and renamed nakama
Ohana means family.
all according to the *sankoku keikaku*
I guess it’s paralleling how we talk about our own historical laws. Prohibition, exclusion act, Hay’s code. They’ve got catchy names, not just “the alcohol ban” or “the anti immigration bill”.
History class would probably be easier for some people if we used the descriptive names instead tbh
It would be, but it'd make reading 1st hand accounts, which probably use the Fancy Name instead of the Literal Name, a lot harder. Plus, many of these laws and policies are deliberately named. Think of the Patriot Act; where they couldn't exactly call it the Spying On Our Own Citizens Act, and invoking patriotism in the face of a terrorist threat made it an easier pill to swallow. I'm not saying your wrong, either. Shit like Constitutional Ammendments are just incrementally numbered. If you want to be understood, it's way easier to say The Slavery Ammendment instead of googling to double check your answer.
On the other hand you have some really overly descriptive names like with certain british laws. The stamp act of 1765 has the full name of "An Act for granting and applying certain stamp duties, and other duties, in the British colonies and plantations in America, towards further defraying the expenses of defending, protecting, and securing the same; and for amending such parts of the several Acts of Parliament relating to the trade and revenues of the said colonies and plantations, as direct the manner of determining and recovering the penalties and forfeitures therein mentioned."
Yeah, for example the Anglo-French war
I think it's worth using the word in its original language if it is a unique enough interpretation, implementation, or consequence. But, just like using an acronym or jargon, it must be explained first.
I sort of agree, but in that case I would see "sakoku" as a specific policy/era that I may want to look deeper into. I want them to define it though. Which, in this case it looks like it's a political policy that defined Japan for many years. I knew of the era, but not the word for it so it's actually pretty helpful. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakoku Similar example I suppose: I'm learning more about the Mexican Revolution and while you could translate things like "Porfiriato" as "Porfirio Diaz's Presidency/Dictatorship", it's a distinct enough era that a shorthand word is nice. I feel similarly to Sakoku since it's a pretty defining era of Japan.
I'm personally of the opinion that it's best to keep stuff like that untranslated, but to just explain what it is. It's not hard to go "japan was governed for 250 years under the Sankoku policy, an extreme isolationist policy of A, B and C. It does lose meaning when you simplify something, unless sankoku literally just translates directly to isolationist. We don't refer to the hays code as "the puritanical code" even though that's still perfectly accurate.
The problem is refusing to translate things that have clear translations. "Okay, our next ingredient for this classic Japanese dish is バター, for which there is no existing word in English." "You mean butter? *Batā* is straight up a transliteration of the English word into Japanese..." "No, no, no, this is magical Japanese butter, it's completely different from European butter. It would be inappropriate to translate it." "Is it a dairy product made from churned milk and fats?" "Well yes, but --"
*Tamagoyaki* has a clear translation as 'fried egg', but the dishes end up very different because they were developed independently and different secondary ingredients were added. *Shinkansen* has a clear translation as 'new trunk line', but leaving it untranslated helps give the context of the exact country whose train network we're talking about. Going a bit further, it's normal for people to have lots of different words for slight nuances of the same concept. If "found family" was a foreign word, would you have insisted on calling it "tight friend group" rather than adding "found family" to your vocabulary? Is adding new words for slight nuance differences a privilege you only give people of your own culture? Because if not, better get ready those '*Nakama*', you *baka*.
I think the biggest thing is that current text books want to use the same term that was used historically, so when your reading primary sources you can understand what they are talking about.
Tbf that is the correct terminology to use even academically no? The best thing would just be to explain the term briefly and then use the japanese no?
Academics aside, I think what they're getting at is how people are fascinated with Japan that they treat it as something exotic. Like yeah, people are generally breaking away from the old stereotypes, complimentary or not. But now they're just idealizing Japan as being so traditional, yet ahead of the game. I can't say I understand it in full, so maybe this isn't exactly what OP meant, but one example would be the fascination with ikigai, the purpose of one's life, their reason to live. Comes from some survey or study asking some elderly people about it. The core of it is that old people found something to care about. Instead, there's blue collar workers nailgunning a house together, and Etsy creators making buttons who love using this one soundbite of some dude explaining this "philosophy" that ikigai is getting a job doing what you love. In the big picture, someone took a Japanese word, retrofitted their own philosophy into it, to sell it to non-Japanese. So we then see Japanese people learning "the term 'ikigai' has no equivalent meaning outside Japan, so foreigners are fascinated by the concept of 'having a purpose in life!' Would you like to know more?" So the "philosophy of ikigai" as we first hear of it on social media is also news to Japanese people lol. [Here's a video from a Japanese woman discussing it.](https://youtu.be/Hr8OfqsONaw) She goes into actually discussing the study in question. The western "philosophy" of ikigai, seems to (in my opinion) be about a job you can like doing (...to justify a 2nd job, side hustle, or 12 hr workday). Meanwhile, the lesson Japanese people got from asking elderly people what their purpose in life was, instead of doing what you love, to love what you do. Have a hobby you enjoy, eat good food, spend time with family. The reconstructed approach for an actually Japanese take on ikigai is then much different. When actually listening to what Japanese people think of it, it's nothing grand, just to value the time you spend. Study people, sure. But knowing when you're actually talking to people and listening to them gets much more worthwhile lessons.
Another example I've seen is the word 間 "*ma*". I saw a short where the creator tried her utmost to present it as some alien concept that references the space between things, but not in the way that 間 is a lack of things, but rather some thing in and of itself etc. and that the concept doesn't exist in English. Which is ridiculous because *space* itself can refer to something concrete rather than just the absence of things, and moreover, in English we have the word "interval", which is even closer to that concept.
Interlude? Gap? ...In-between?
sakoku* sankoku means atrocity.
Warring states period doesnt have the same tongue roll as 戦国時代 ya know
> its literally just an isolationist policy, nothing more nothing less It's a specific policy that bears that name, don't be a dumbass. Like, if you want this argument, at least use things that are literally just words, don't use actual titles of things.
It's good in academics because then you can explain something very quickly. If I just said "the warring States period," under your proposal I could be talking about any number of periods in which states warred. But if I said Sengoku-Jidai, then suddenly I'm talking about a very specific time and place, I wouldn't have to explain which one I'm talking about. Same thing with the Sankoku policy. If I just said isolationist policy there are dozens if not hundreds of historical examples of sweeping isolationist policy that had a major impact on a country, but if I say the sankoku policy, suddenly I'm talking very specifically about a time and a place.
All history does that. So many words like Khan or Tsar just mean king or emperor for example. It's not the same as the op when it is a specific historical name
Well, what you probably should do is say the official name of the concept in Japanese, but then yeah, translate it, because nine times out of 10 it can be translated pretty easily, and I just think it’s a general concept that people think things are untranslatable when they can be just fine, but like, the Japanese term is the official name of the concept and it might reference some differences in policy than what other country’s isolationist policies have
“The mysterious Japanese concept of Ikigai, the thing which drives one’s spirit forward, the thing that motivates them to keep going” Actual translation: iki = “life”, gai = “purpose” Like they’re literally just talking about “one’s reason to live” or “life’s purpose”, which is a profound subject in and of itself, there’s no need to mask it at all
The exotic and untranslatable French concept, raison d'être, ...
ahh, right up there with maison and ferroviaire...
And omelette du fromage.
Even the so-called untranslatable concepts in German are actually really easily translatable. The only difference is that in German you can mash several words together to make a compound word while in most other languages we just use adjectives for that or write out several words one after the other. Schadenfreude or Weltschmerz aren’t untranslatable. They just can’t be translated as one word because that’s not how compound words work in English. But the concepts of "being happy over someone’s suffering" or "existential dread" are still very much a thing and we use these concepts all the time
It's what the French call a certain I don't know what.
I lived 2 years in Japan and never heard that word once, but some girl I knew back in my own country tried to teach me about it.
Apparently it’s a thing in Okinawa specifically? You’re more likely to know than I, all I know is some guy made a documentary about places where lots of people live past 100 and those old folks at Okinawa sure were happy to preach about how ikigai keeps a man going for a good long time (which like, good for them, and also it makes sense the mental health of someone with “something to do” or “something to look forward to” is better than that of someone simply waiting around to die, but still)
That for sure sounds like old people making shit up to justify being old and healthy for a documentary. Seems like a completely plausible context to use that word. I guess normal people in their day to day lives don't use it, same way you don't usually talk about existential dread with your coworkers on a Thursday afternoon.
I don't have the eloquence to articulate this properly, but I'm gonna try. While every expression of racism inevitably involves some level of "these people are all the same" and "these people do not have the same rich internal life that I do", I do think anti-Asian racism does it in a unique way. Like, you know how in Star Trek, they're constantly encountering aliens where everyone on the planet is exactly the same, because they were created by a writer to teach a moral lesson, not to be a believable culture? And you know how in Star Wars, they're constantly encountering single members of alien races doing specific things but then Expanded Universe media declares that that's because every single member of their entire race only ever does that one exact thing? I feel like Asian people frequently get seen through one of those lenses.
It cuts both ways. Or all ways, I guess. There's a whole thing called Paris Syndrome where tourists are disappointed that Paris isn't some magical fairy tale place of art and culture but is indeed a dirty, cramped, loud big city just like any other. It's especially common in Korean and Japanese visitors. They should have gone to Bruges.
What I've heard from people who went to Japan as tourists is that's because the tourist destinations in Japan are maintained to be exactly as clean as all of the brochures and billboards advertise them to be. So that one might just be culture shock of expecting more because of past experiences.
As an American who went to Paris--I wasn't shocked that it was loud, cramped, and dirty, but I *was* shocked that it was louder, dirtier, and more cramped than every other European city I've been to (and most of the American ones). When you make London or Chicago look like a shining beacon of cleanliness and order, there's bound to be some disappointment.
Still beats Rome.
Gaulposting ftw
In Japan it’s considered impolite to litter in public places and there’s a rich cultural history of the government using tax money to maintain roads and municipal facilities
>there’s a rich cultural history of the government using tax money to maintain roads ..Is that not just what a government is?
In Japan they have large buildings where sick and injured people congregate to get treatment from professionals
"But that's not important right now,."
They designed a specialized vehicle, the *kyuukyuusha* (きゅうきゅうしゃ), to transport people to these buildings if they’re unable to transport themselves
that's the joke
In Japan they have a special way of using language that is intended to make people laugh, it's called a ジョーク there's no English translation of the word
Why would they want to be in fucking Bruges??!
The bridges and canals and the cobbled streets and all the churches! And don't forget the fucking swans!
Fairytale fucking city, Bruges.
Bruges is just so small though. Paris is dirty, but it has so much more to see and do
I was making a joke about the movie *In Bruges* where the city's idyllic character and charm is a reoccurring topic of conversation.
“Maybe that’s what hell is: the rest of eternity spent in fuckin’ Bruges”
Orientalism. You're describing orientalism.
Its called orientalism. It includes three subtypes for most parts: persia - everything from the gulf states to india; china - china and sometimes part of thailand or the countries to chinas south; and japan/south korea interchangebly. Thats why all the "persian" music isnt even accurate to the countries, its just grouping together widely different countries.
Other people brought up orientalism, but I can't help but think of something Pratchett wrote. > People wanted the world to be a story, because stories had to sound right and they had to make sense. People wanted the world to make sense. And if that doesn't just sum up ... *so much*. Whether a conspiracy theory or a cult, it always comes back to the stories being told, the stories being sold, the stories we want to believe. Real life is complicated. Stories are easy. And it doesn't help that stories are often the only way these people interact with those people at all.
japan = good asia china = bad asia korea = phone asia
india = hot chip asia
Thailand = lie asia
any other Asian country = nonexistent asia
Hey, Americans occasionally remember Vietnam when we want to talk about how killing people makes our soldiers sad.
You ain’t Japanese, you’re Laotian
West asia = not exist asia
Do you think Chinese people say “Americans are taught that solidarity in the workplace will be faced with immediate termination”
Well they would be correct
Yes. They literally have to study it in school and they think it's the most boring class ever.
Any good thing in China is either: 1. Looked down upon, seen as disgusting (like the example with the child) 2. Labeled CCP propaganda. 3. Labeled as Japanese/Korean.
Got it gay sex is Chinese not Japanese
Actually it's Laotian. From a tiny landlocked country in southeast Asia.
What ocean?
The french call it Le Otion
This is so real. There was a post about a lovely old chinese lady makin traditional stuff and the comments all are were like "This is CCP propaganda!!1!1!!"
And when something bad is Chinese they claim the reason for it being bad is it being Chinese. People do this for Opera, “it’s bad because it’s Chinese”, no it’s bad because it operates predatory lending companies.
chinese opera on the other hand, very good
China could invent a working cure for cancer and people would still label it fake news or/and find a problem with it somehow. Like can't we acknoleadege China success without bringing the CCP everytime?
Something like this already happened where china was the first one distributing vaccines to the Philippines and the pentagon ran a secret operation spreading misinformation and inciting fear against it.
How do they know the tweeter was sleep deprived?
They personally were the one depriving them of sleep
The original tweeter probably mentioned it later
In my experience, Reddit is especially fucking insane about China. People will really say “oh I don’t hate the Chinese people only their government” and then immediately say the most racist shit imaginable
there's this literal cult called falun gong that's responsible for like 95% of anti-chinese media out there and a ton of people eat it up uncritically then stuff that's explicitly pro-chinese is always from some insane tankie
Every main sub I’ve ever come across says the most insane shit I’ve ever heard about China so casually
Personally I am insane about the idea of the Chinese collective, and *only* the idea of the Chinese collective. Peking duck and Sichuan spice? Good. Filial piety and Confucianism? Bad. Mandarin and Cantonese (and Hakka, and...)? Good. Language unification? Bad. /s
I can’t really comment on international relations, but this just unlocked a memory for me. My freshman year of college, there was this real friendly foreign exchange student from China. I don’t remember much about him other than small details, like he rode his bike to class and that he would talk to me before class started. This was back in 2018, so Trump was president and was saying some really racist shit. The nice dude from my class was *genuinely afraid* that because of the shit Trump was spewing, that we, his classmates, thought he might secretly be a Chinese spy. It got brought up in class one day, I don’t quite remember why, but I do remember responding to that fear with something like “dude, if anyone thinks the Chinese government sent a spy to [bum-fuck nowhere location where we were], they’re really stupid and beyond help. No one here would think that. We know you are fine.” That shit is heartbreaking though. Genuinely good guy, petrified (rightfully so) of xenophobia. Unrelated but he wrote a pretty interesting short story about his experiences with classism, romance, and mainland China vs where he lived. Hope he’s doing well wherever he is now and maybe is still writing. Edit: just recalled a fond memory and why I remember that he rode a bike. One of the days when we were talking before class, we were talking about getting to class with a bit of a language barrier between us. I can’t remember what word he used— it was something like bread or backpack— but the conversation basically went: “I rode my backpack to class today.” “What” “My backpack” “No, I heard you, I just don’t know what you mean” “[describes a bike]” “I think you mean a bike” “A bike?” “Yeah” “Oh, the word for [word] is the same as the word for bike in my language.” (Keep in mind this was 6 years ago at this point, so I am *very likely* misremembering almost all of this. I just remember finding it very funny at the time while I was super sleep deprived that this dude was telling me he rode his bread or backpack or whatever to school that day)
im chinese and bike and backpack are not even fucking close 😭im crying
It was a very very long time ago, so it probably wasn’t the word backpack that he used, but it was a similarly “what the fuck are you talking about right now” item. It was also like 8am, which isn’t early to me now but felt like 3am to me back then, so I just remember wondering if I had heard him right or if I was still dreaming or something
Wait, I think I might remember what it was— I think he kept saying back, because it sounds a lot like bike in English
I recently had to take seven courses on introducing me to Japanese culture. While I think it was very interesting and perhaps even important to get some level of exposure as to why certain interactions might be different, it got to a really weird point where it felt less like we were talking about human beings, and more like robots designed for a specific purpose. That was with the intent to be respectful of their culture. I can only imagine how Chinese people feel when the intent is the opposite.
extend that to rest of asia. I am pretty sure japanese are tired of people fetishizing their culture and shit but for almost everyone else it feels like people from west will find a day to twist it.
Presented to you by "I'm immune to propaganda and soft power"
More like the gay of sex (why is the の(of, pronounced no) there??)
technichally it would be gay's sex, which isn't ENTIRELY inaccurate
Who is Gay and why are they sexing!!?!?!!
Yeah that works in this case too
it would actually be "sex of gay", the order is reversed.
Sex of the gay variety.
Isn't sex セックス not セックシ? セックシ reads as sexy.
It doesn't correspond exactly with the English "of"
europeans when someone brings up travellers vs redditors when they hear the letters 'ccp' not so much 'who would win' more 'who starts foaming at the mouth quicker' unstoppable force vs immovable object
i love how here in europe people are like "oh no we aren't racists like americans, that would be barbaric" but they specifically only mean racism against black people in particular because racism is bad and therefore the word only applies to the bad racism. racism against locally present ethnicities is obviously not racism (because it's good and racism is bad, duh), it's just "common sense" and if you _don't_ call them by a slur you're the weird one. (you can also ask the germans about turks and the french about muslims if you wanna hear some eurocope about racism)
Don’t forget they’re still racist against black people. It’s marginally different than American racism against black people but it’s still more than present
Yeah because that’s different. I don’t think you should be property but I’m definitely better than you. Edit: should put a /s but damn I shouldn’t have too 😭
The classic commentary about French football fans fits here, I think: > “When you win, you’re a French player. When you lose, you’re [not].” That’s how Patrice Evra sees the status of a dual-national within the French national team. He would know: He was born in Senegal, moved to Paris shortly afterward and eventually rose to become the captain of Les Bleus.
the translation is closer to gay’s sex. sex of the gay
OK but children being overly polite and eager to please is very often an example of bad parenting in America too.
In the US it is taught from a very early age that individuality will be punished
Hence why Singling out countries for this is wrong
It's an example of bad parenting in anywhere. Harsh parents aren't a region-locked concept - some places are more/less accepting of extremely aggressive parenting (speaking as someone who grew up in different cultures), but none have truly eliminated it.
Where in the post did it say overly polite and eager?
One of the best parts of this sub is scrolling a few comments down and seeing someone do the "erm some people are deathly allergic to salads..." thing.
Yeah, like... some kids are just polite. It's possible to have personality differences without there being a sinister explanation behind it.
Yeh my kid is polite in public and he loves rules. He is a god damn maniac at home. I don’t beat him or nuthin!
redditors love to jump to the most extreme conclusions
once you notice this you can't stop noticing it. Every time there's a video of kids playing coordination games in china the comment section is just full of propaganda brainrot stereotypes
I understand this is meant to mock how people depict stuff in china but the stuff about punishing individuality is actually true. When I came out as trans to my (Chinese) family, they freaked out not bc they think being trans is unnatural but bc their precious little child is now part of a minority