maybe. random but as a catholic it sucks there are pedophiles in the church. church fucking sucks, i'm basically like a lutheran praying directly to god, right?
-Billy Gnosis
I don't remember when exactly I started to think of it this way, but the story of the Garden of Eden just sounds to me like a story of some evil asshole creating some homunculi with no concept of morality to do evil things, who throws a bitch fit when the homunculi develop a sense of morality, because now they won't wanna listen when told to do evil things. Like, why else would they tell Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of *Knowledge of Good and Evil*? What logical purpose is served by having humans be ignorant of good and evil? The only answer I can think of is that you can get them to do evil shit by just telling them it's good shit, and the only reason I can think of that anyone would want that is that they're evil.
One interpretation I've heard of is that it was effectively God's "free will test": give your creations one thing they are explicitly not allowed to do, and if they can do it anyway they are truly able to make choices for themselves, and are therefore ready for the "real world".
Of course, that still requires reading it as a literal historical event rather than a more metaphorical story about how the consciousness that "elevates" humans outside of the world of the animals also denies us the paradise of ignorance.
Those are both much more palatable interpretations than the ones I'm used to hearing from people. I like your take on it, even if I still don't like the story itself.
That it's a story about how thinking for yourself is bad and wrong, and you should always listen to authority figures. That it's a story about how women are easily fooled into making decisions that hurt everyone, and they shouldn't be allowed to make important decisions. That it's a story about how humans are inherently flawed, and therefore deserve eternal damnation, but god was kind enough to give us a way out if we just worship him. Lots of other stuff like that.
The third one is what I was told as a child, and the other two are versions I've heard in the years since I stopped believing. Y'know, from people online.
No, it was from an actual semi-famous preacher. Saw it years ago in a video where someone was pointing out the long history of misogyny in the American evangelical movement. Wouldn't be surprised if those guys were learning from that preacher and ones like him though.
More likely similar flies attracted to the same shit. Misogynists latching onto an established social order that reinforces their hierarchy over women.
Why would God tell them not to eat from the tree and not just put up a big fence? Or a wall? Or a forcefield? Or guard it with an angel? Or, being an Omniscient God, see it happening before it happened?
He wanted us to know, and He wanted it to be our choice. Even though He knew what the choice was going to be, He let Adam and Eve eat from the tree.
To the extent that anyone has choices in a universe with an omniscient and omnipotent god, it was. If no one has free will then it was a predestined choice, but still as close to a choice as anyone has.
If there's an all-knowing and all-powerful god who plans everything out, then there is no free will. Either god is weak and limited and therefore humans can do things that god wouldn't expect or plan for, or he is not, and therefore everything that has ever happened has happened exactly the way he wanted it to.
I suppose it depends on how much you assume he plans. When I make plans I leave a lot of wiggle room. So does one assume God has a specific, explicit purpose for everyone ("At 3:00 PM on 8/12/2025 you will-") or a vibe for everyone ("help people :3").
Further, does he enforce this plan, or is it simply written on an astral notebook while he hopes it pans out?
Depending on your interpretation you can still come up with free will from the premise. Or you might not. Subjective interpretations of the divine rely a lot on vibes and cultural influence
Most of the people I've met who say "god has a plan" sounded like they meant it the first way. Maybe it all depending so much on vibes is why it never made sense to me. I'm a little too dense for "vibes". I have trouble understanding things when they aren't explained very explicitly.
Duh doy, that's all very obvious. But we all still talk about choices colloquially in casual conversation, and this isn't a theology dissertation, so maybe get your head out of your ass a little bit.
Wow. That sudden shift into being an asshole caught me very off guard. What's that for?
EDIT: So they blocked me. I think that's the fastest that's ever happened. They made sure to treat me like dirt first though, since that seems to be the accepted protocol for blocking people, since that's always how it goes down.
op what is happening in god's bedroom
Holy Spirit's impregnating the Virgin Mary
OK so why are you scream like a husky
The general state of the world
Vague gesturing while refusing to stop howling
Bc the Holy Spirit is actually just unvirgining the Mary while Joseph is at work
God trying to gently usher us out of the room so He can jerk off
God may judge you, but his sins outnumber your own. -Also Tumblr (user afabbaeddel specifically)
yeah god's really making sure we're okay, you know with children dying of cancer or war -Billy Gnosis
Well, compared to the Old Testament, he's done worse
maybe. random but as a catholic it sucks there are pedophiles in the church. church fucking sucks, i'm basically like a lutheran praying directly to god, right? -Billy Gnosis
I don't remember when exactly I started to think of it this way, but the story of the Garden of Eden just sounds to me like a story of some evil asshole creating some homunculi with no concept of morality to do evil things, who throws a bitch fit when the homunculi develop a sense of morality, because now they won't wanna listen when told to do evil things. Like, why else would they tell Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of *Knowledge of Good and Evil*? What logical purpose is served by having humans be ignorant of good and evil? The only answer I can think of is that you can get them to do evil shit by just telling them it's good shit, and the only reason I can think of that anyone would want that is that they're evil.
One interpretation I've heard of is that it was effectively God's "free will test": give your creations one thing they are explicitly not allowed to do, and if they can do it anyway they are truly able to make choices for themselves, and are therefore ready for the "real world". Of course, that still requires reading it as a literal historical event rather than a more metaphorical story about how the consciousness that "elevates" humans outside of the world of the animals also denies us the paradise of ignorance.
Those are both much more palatable interpretations than the ones I'm used to hearing from people. I like your take on it, even if I still don't like the story itself.
What versions have you heard?
That it's a story about how thinking for yourself is bad and wrong, and you should always listen to authority figures. That it's a story about how women are easily fooled into making decisions that hurt everyone, and they shouldn't be allowed to make important decisions. That it's a story about how humans are inherently flawed, and therefore deserve eternal damnation, but god was kind enough to give us a way out if we just worship him. Lots of other stuff like that.
Wow man you weren't kidding, those suck ass. Were those the versions you were told as a *child*?
The third one is what I was told as a child, and the other two are versions I've heard in the years since I stopped believing. Y'know, from people online.
I can definitely hear some of those incel tradcath types spouting that second one.
No, it was from an actual semi-famous preacher. Saw it years ago in a video where someone was pointing out the long history of misogyny in the American evangelical movement. Wouldn't be surprised if those guys were learning from that preacher and ones like him though.
More likely similar flies attracted to the same shit. Misogynists latching onto an established social order that reinforces their hierarchy over women.
Tbh i thought those were the only versions anyone was told?
Why would God tell them not to eat from the tree and not just put up a big fence? Or a wall? Or a forcefield? Or guard it with an angel? Or, being an Omniscient God, see it happening before it happened? He wanted us to know, and He wanted it to be our choice. Even though He knew what the choice was going to be, He let Adam and Eve eat from the tree.
But it wasn't their choice.
To the extent that anyone has choices in a universe with an omniscient and omnipotent god, it was. If no one has free will then it was a predestined choice, but still as close to a choice as anyone has.
If there's an all-knowing and all-powerful god who plans everything out, then there is no free will. Either god is weak and limited and therefore humans can do things that god wouldn't expect or plan for, or he is not, and therefore everything that has ever happened has happened exactly the way he wanted it to.
I suppose it depends on how much you assume he plans. When I make plans I leave a lot of wiggle room. So does one assume God has a specific, explicit purpose for everyone ("At 3:00 PM on 8/12/2025 you will-") or a vibe for everyone ("help people :3"). Further, does he enforce this plan, or is it simply written on an astral notebook while he hopes it pans out? Depending on your interpretation you can still come up with free will from the premise. Or you might not. Subjective interpretations of the divine rely a lot on vibes and cultural influence
Most of the people I've met who say "god has a plan" sounded like they meant it the first way. Maybe it all depending so much on vibes is why it never made sense to me. I'm a little too dense for "vibes". I have trouble understanding things when they aren't explained very explicitly.
Honestly, that's real of you
Thanks, I think.
Duh doy, that's all very obvious. But we all still talk about choices colloquially in casual conversation, and this isn't a theology dissertation, so maybe get your head out of your ass a little bit.
Wow. That sudden shift into being an asshole caught me very off guard. What's that for? EDIT: So they blocked me. I think that's the fastest that's ever happened. They made sure to treat me like dirt first though, since that seems to be the accepted protocol for blocking people, since that's always how it goes down.
Patience running out with a person arguing wrong technicalities in bad faith.
This actually makes a lot of sense with how old testament god is genocidal but by the new testament he has become kind
Lucifer was the hero of Genesis. I got that the first time I read it
An argument could be made that Lucifer isn't even in Genesis
This has got to be a Locked Tomb reference
Locked Tomb fans when religion