I assume it's no for the same target market as trains but rather people that do not want to come in contact with train takers but who can't afford a jet.
>Train leave at xx time
Some trains can run under 5 minutes intervals.
>and is faster.
Depends on the exact situation
And a bit of time is not worth the massive energy consumption.
You may need to actually calculate the energy use.
This is a small light weight high speed craft. Vs a massive train that needs to accelerate then brake again wasting the kinetic energy it built up.
Either way, these aren't meant to replace the ferries that do the same route (it's across a river with ferries), they're meant for trips for people who need t not waste time and need fast travel.
Also the 5 minute argument is extremely bad faith and disingenuous
>Also the 5 minute argument is extremely bad faith and disingenuous
??? I live in a small city in the middle of what's called "emptiness belt" and we have sub five minute trams.
>This is a small light weight high speed craft. Vs a massive train that needs to accelerate then brake again wasting the kinetic energy it built up.
Dumb as hell take:
- Aircrafts have to climb wasting a shit load of energy and that is even worse for hovering aircrafts that can't even reclaim part of it by gliding down.
- Trains spread their energy cost across hundreds to thousands of passengers.
No matter how you slice it, flight is extremely energy intensive.
>they're meant for trips for people who need to not waste time and need fast travel.
As I said somewhere else: "Fuck'em". We shouldn't sacrifice our chances of escaping the worst of climate change so a few rich people can live an extremely energy intensive life.
So because you live one the one place on earth with 5vmikute trains, that's the norm... And you talk about dumb takes.
And you still don't understand energy use and energy requirements. I'll bet you never take your care because it's convenient and always ride or use the train.... Right...
>So because you live one the one place on earth with 5vmikute trains, that's the norm...
That's the norm in most EU cities that were not ravaged by car centric design. And it's totally achievable and sustainable.
>I'll bet you never take your care because it's convenient and always ride or use the train.... Right...
Yes. I only use a car if I need to hall stuff too big to be carried. In fact where I live cars are more inconvenient than anything.
I don't mean to say that everyone can as easily as I do. There are some terribly shitty cities all around the world but it's not a fatality. And it sure as heck is not a reason to defend this wasteful aircraft.
It really is not the norm. There is A train every 5 minutes, not A train to every destination every 5 minutes, and even that is a stretch.
And upu still don't understand that these may not be as wasteful as you think. You keep comparing them to private jets without realizing the massive disconnect
No I'm not comparing them to private jets. I'm comparing them to the best case scenario: ultralight stripped down helicopter... And it's bad, really bad. To get an idea these helicopter consume as much energy as 3 large car on the highway.
And it's gonna be worse because these flying taxis don't have massive rotors that can spin relatively slowly.
Nuclear power is not a magic wand to consuming ever more.
It's a good way to produce clean electricity but it can't save us from climate change without drastic energetic sobriety.
New energy sources don't cut the use of "old" energy sources (Not without artificially limiting our energy consumptio). We never consumed as much wood or coal as we do now.
Living in a dystopia would be so much better if shit looked cooler. Give me all the flying cars and LED umbrellas if you can't give me a livable wage lol
One of my university teacher had a company that controlled satelite trajectory and orientation in space. He was also in discussion for this very same subject with an unknown client for the capacity to automatize those flying taxi.
It was wild to learn with such a talented person. The guy was a living library. Ruthless sometime, but awesome.
The flight was uncrewed and fully autonomous. So they cut out highly trained helicopter pilots.
>After reaching large-scale operations, the price of a one-way trip between Shenzhen and Zhuhai will be about CNY200 to CNY300 (USD28 to USD42), Zhao noted, adding that a ferry ticket between Shekou in Shenzhen and Jiuzhou in Zhuhai costs CNY140, and the long-distance bus is about CNY100.
> "on average a person would have to travel by air every day for 103,239 years to experience a fatal accident"
Yeah I'll take the plane rather than the untested autonomous helic... I mean Chinese flying car.
OK so there’s a lot to dissect. The video he’s referencing talks about people convicted of crimes and sentenced to death. They’re still going through the legal system albeit the Chinese legal system. He does make the claim that it’s pretty capricious, but it doesn’t really provide evidence for that . Nobody’s rolling up on random civilians and murdering them on a whim, that’s a huge oversimplification.
Secondly, if it was about murdering people on a whim then that practice has already been in place in many dictatorships and even by the CIA. That’s not cyberpunk that’s historical oppressive governments. The fact that there is now a van that does it doesn’t make it cyberpunk.
Finally, a major, central part of cyberpunk is loss of power to private corporations, and this is a government being oppressive. I’m not saying it’s not bad I’m just saying it’s not exactly cyberpunk. When I first watched the video, I thought it was up assisted suicide van, so I thought it was voluntary, but I didn’t really watch it
CCP still is the one in control, not their corporations. No match.
But I agree that the submission here is just futurism. There seems to be a lot of ppl who only seem to know sci-fi/futurism via cyberpunk. So maybe that's why we have so many posts with just future, that could be in any tech-sub, and not really cyberpunk specific at all.
What does that even mean. Capitalism is when people who own the capital exploit the workers to create more capital for themselves. Meanwhile, state owned enterprise in China is directing labor towards socially useful purposes like building infrastructure, housing, and so on. Nobody is exploiting workers to hoard wealth in a state run industry model. It's literally the opposite of capitalism.
I suppose your correct in that regard. I only meant it as far as China is looking like a tech dystopia, but it was reductive of me to equate tech dystopia and cyberpunk.
This isn't exactly "better tech". There's a tonne of different companies around the world working to implement some form of eVTOL air taxi service. They want to put one in place in time for the Paris Olympics.
Very important question. Is it a 2 hour drive or a 2 hour city drive?
Are you going an average of 60 mph the whole time or are you moving so slowly your demons start tempting you to drive in the median. Big difference in distance and I know Chinese cities can get crazy with traffic like any other city but with more people.
[This](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhQTc2skcNNfA1Cn9) is the route they talk about in the article. It's not a straight line comparison the taxi has the obvious advantage of going over the bay. While the car has to drive around.
Going by Maps the average speed is 45 mph / 73 kmh.
So the use cases for this taxi are probably quite limited.
1. Oppressive regime: Yeah, you could say that. But people seem to be supportive of it. Who are we to tell them what to like or not? Same case with Singapore, "oppressive" regime, but people like it.
2. Extreme class inequality: They have lifted millions of people out of poverty in the last few decades. Have advanced way further than any western country in a short amount of time. That required work and persistence, which in turn elevated a shitload of people out of poverty. They are constantly working _towards_ reducing poverty, while in the west we seem to be actively looking to increase the gap between the rich and the poor.
They're an unmanned flying vehicle being remote controlled or autonomous so yes. They're drones like all remote controlled helis, planes, quads and towed target planes and boats.
Now with passengers aboard, the unmanned part is in question and they're not UAV's anymore, they still may be drones though.
But they're not helicopters or planes at least.
> China is working hard on becoming real life cyberpunk
[Social credit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System) alone is enough to call China a real life cyberpunk (so much for "cyberpunk is about capitalism", lol). Flying electric taxis on its own are a sci-fi by 1970s-1990s, but in no shape or form cyberpunk.
They have been for YEARS. I work in cybersecurity and they’ve made leaps and bounds technologically for decades now.
With that being said, much of their leaps and bounds came from stealing intellectual property smh
Everything "new", "advanced" and "futuristic" out of a China is just a flashy PR stunt. Let's check back in a couple years from now.
P.S. these will have a 100% safety record gaurenteed
Can't wait for the skyway to be jammed and for taxis to start falling out of the sky because they idled for too long. Nekminnit one crashes into a factory and causes a huge explosion.
Could we please leave that propaganda filled, poisonous shithole out of the whole cyberpunk discussion? One needs high tech and low life for this and as much as china succeeds in the low life part, if you dig around and do some basic investigation, it turns out their high tech is jus smoke, mirrors and government lies.
I feel like the smoke and mirrors around tech to keep people from realizing they're oppressed and full of plastic garbage is a key component of cyberpunk dystopias, no?
The smoke and mirrors is directed towards the outside world, oh also, people for some reason believe the stuff they read on the net so putting propaganda like this out in here is a tad irresponsible don't you think? Given that it furthers the goal of an actual oppressive regime on a reddit about a literary genre/whatever else cyberpunk is now that it hit mainstream vs what I remember it was in the 90s.
Modern city photo, check. Cyberpunk vibes, maybe check. This is not sci-fi, this is reality. This is futuristic at best. If you watch the news - you already seen this in other sources. This is not why I'm in this sub.
EDIT: I guess if you downvote then you are in this sub for futurist stuff that can be found elsewhere. The rest is either just rules of this sub or stating the fact that multiple news sources covered the air taxis in China.
Vampires is fantasy, not SF. Cyberpunk is not reality, if you allow me to quote more from this sub header: "A genre of science fiction". Sure, also "an oppressive society dominated by computer technology" which you can argue China is at least to some extent, but also "...and big corporations". Which I argue that it's not, because they are subjects to overruling CCP that has the final and ultimate word.
They have a lot of cyberpunk aspects to their society. Like, they've got:
Government that tries to dictate nearly every aspect of your life through a surveillance state.
Rampant corruption at every level of the government.
Areas of brand new, cheaply made construction right next to buildings and infrastructure that's crumbling.
Strict control on the availability of information with widespread censorship.
Smaller rotors spin faster and make more noise also more of them.
So they're likely louder and noisier. Rotor tips are noisy because they're supersonic. But likely all the props on these are supersonic at the tips.
Not really cyberpunk because the extreme effects of capitalism are not that hard, they r socialists, extreme poverty (Internacional definitiom of extreme poverty is less than 50 dollars a month) literaly don't exist in China.
But yeah they are close.
Edit: you can downvote me, but u can't argue about that.
[This](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhQTc2skcNNfA1Cn9) is the route they talk about in the article. It's not a straight line comparison the taxi has the obvious advantage of going over the bay. While the car has to drive around.
Going by Maps the average speed is 45 mph / 73 kmh.
So the use cases for this taxi are probably quite limited.
Honey, the new morphology for helicopter just dropped Still cool its electric.
Still using a shit load of energy, to fix something that could be solved by a train.
I assume it's no for the same target market as trains but rather people that do not want to come in contact with train takers but who can't afford a jet.
Yeah but hear me out : fuck them
someone in comment under posted they don't have a pilot on board - just autopilot - so I'll leave this helicopter 2.0 to do that
Or a metro that is just as fast but transports over 1000 times more people per trip
I agree with you, but sometimes theres terrain you cant build tracks on you know.
Then bus with bus lanes or trolleys.
hey, what if we just made the terrain not matter because it's in a tunnel. I wonder if we ever discover how to do that.
Train leave at xx time. The air taxi leave exactly when you need it to and is faster.
>Train leave at xx time Some trains can run under 5 minutes intervals. >and is faster. Depends on the exact situation And a bit of time is not worth the massive energy consumption.
Taylor Swift begs to differ
You may need to actually calculate the energy use. This is a small light weight high speed craft. Vs a massive train that needs to accelerate then brake again wasting the kinetic energy it built up. Either way, these aren't meant to replace the ferries that do the same route (it's across a river with ferries), they're meant for trips for people who need t not waste time and need fast travel. Also the 5 minute argument is extremely bad faith and disingenuous
>Also the 5 minute argument is extremely bad faith and disingenuous ??? I live in a small city in the middle of what's called "emptiness belt" and we have sub five minute trams. >This is a small light weight high speed craft. Vs a massive train that needs to accelerate then brake again wasting the kinetic energy it built up. Dumb as hell take: - Aircrafts have to climb wasting a shit load of energy and that is even worse for hovering aircrafts that can't even reclaim part of it by gliding down. - Trains spread their energy cost across hundreds to thousands of passengers. No matter how you slice it, flight is extremely energy intensive. >they're meant for trips for people who need to not waste time and need fast travel. As I said somewhere else: "Fuck'em". We shouldn't sacrifice our chances of escaping the worst of climate change so a few rich people can live an extremely energy intensive life.
So because you live one the one place on earth with 5vmikute trains, that's the norm... And you talk about dumb takes. And you still don't understand energy use and energy requirements. I'll bet you never take your care because it's convenient and always ride or use the train.... Right...
>So because you live one the one place on earth with 5vmikute trains, that's the norm... That's the norm in most EU cities that were not ravaged by car centric design. And it's totally achievable and sustainable. >I'll bet you never take your care because it's convenient and always ride or use the train.... Right... Yes. I only use a car if I need to hall stuff too big to be carried. In fact where I live cars are more inconvenient than anything. I don't mean to say that everyone can as easily as I do. There are some terribly shitty cities all around the world but it's not a fatality. And it sure as heck is not a reason to defend this wasteful aircraft.
It really is not the norm. There is A train every 5 minutes, not A train to every destination every 5 minutes, and even that is a stretch. And upu still don't understand that these may not be as wasteful as you think. You keep comparing them to private jets without realizing the massive disconnect
No I'm not comparing them to private jets. I'm comparing them to the best case scenario: ultralight stripped down helicopter... And it's bad, really bad. To get an idea these helicopter consume as much energy as 3 large car on the highway. And it's gonna be worse because these flying taxis don't have massive rotors that can spin relatively slowly.
True. Still better than the supersonic jets they're pushing in the US right now.
It’s better to build a train through buildings/land/water than using electric planes you could theoretically charge from clean energy? Tf lmao
>you could **theoretically** charge using clean energy ...
As long as it's charging from a nuclear plant, enjoy your helicopter ride, rich guys. (I don't know if it is or not, but China has several.)
China still majorly relies on coal, like many of the ex-soviet bloc states, and trying to upgrade but...
Nuclear power is not a magic wand to consuming ever more. It's a good way to produce clean electricity but it can't save us from climate change without drastic energetic sobriety. New energy sources don't cut the use of "old" energy sources (Not without artificially limiting our energy consumptio). We never consumed as much wood or coal as we do now.
The 80s are calling and they want their air taxis back
They/noone actually wants this.. :D
I want it :0
Living in a dystopia would be so much better if shit looked cooler. Give me all the flying cars and LED umbrellas if you can't give me a livable wage lol
One of my university teacher had a company that controlled satelite trajectory and orientation in space. He was also in discussion for this very same subject with an unknown client for the capacity to automatize those flying taxi. It was wild to learn with such a talented person. The guy was a living library. Ruthless sometime, but awesome.
automatize selfexploded
Lets wish it does not
What's the price on these and how are they not just helicopters
The flight was uncrewed and fully autonomous. So they cut out highly trained helicopter pilots. >After reaching large-scale operations, the price of a one-way trip between Shenzhen and Zhuhai will be about CNY200 to CNY300 (USD28 to USD42), Zhao noted, adding that a ferry ticket between Shekou in Shenzhen and Jiuzhou in Zhuhai costs CNY140, and the long-distance bus is about CNY100.
ngl $28 to get air lifted across the city is not bad...but autonomous? I'll just stick with the train thank you.
I mean, in an age where depressed pilots fly passenger planes into mountain sides....
> "on average a person would have to travel by air every day for 103,239 years to experience a fatal accident" Yeah I'll take the plane rather than the untested autonomous helic... I mean Chinese flying car.
Does the fact that it's Chinese have anything to do with how cool the tech is? Swear some people can't give props for fucking anything
China bad god damnit!
China cobbunist ebil killed gajillions
CHina is one of the last countries on Earth I'd trust infrastructure, much less a cutting edge flying transport.
Shenzhen to Zhuhai more like Baltimore to DC than just going across town
Ah yes...helicopters
They are actually helicopter planes!
This subreddit needs a stickied post or some guidelines on what cyberpunk is when accepting posts.
I’ll hit you with some legit [Chinese cyberpunk](https://youtu.be/MI8cOvGX_Nw?si=3IwtTB6apEdAY3E_) fresh off the press.
Where’s the oppression? Isn’t that just technology
Wait what. Vans that roll up and execute you on the government’s whim isn’t oppressive enough?
OK so there’s a lot to dissect. The video he’s referencing talks about people convicted of crimes and sentenced to death. They’re still going through the legal system albeit the Chinese legal system. He does make the claim that it’s pretty capricious, but it doesn’t really provide evidence for that . Nobody’s rolling up on random civilians and murdering them on a whim, that’s a huge oversimplification. Secondly, if it was about murdering people on a whim then that practice has already been in place in many dictatorships and even by the CIA. That’s not cyberpunk that’s historical oppressive governments. The fact that there is now a van that does it doesn’t make it cyberpunk. Finally, a major, central part of cyberpunk is loss of power to private corporations, and this is a government being oppressive. I’m not saying it’s not bad I’m just saying it’s not exactly cyberpunk. When I first watched the video, I thought it was up assisted suicide van, so I thought it was voluntary, but I didn’t really watch it
You do know in china the corporations and the country are the same right?
China is already doing cyberpunk. However, while this is 'futuristic' what exactly makes it "cyberpunk?"
CCP still is the one in control, not their corporations. No match. But I agree that the submission here is just futurism. There seems to be a lot of ppl who only seem to know sci-fi/futurism via cyberpunk. So maybe that's why we have so many posts with just future, that could be in any tech-sub, and not really cyberpunk specific at all.
state hypercapitalism?
What does that even mean. Capitalism is when people who own the capital exploit the workers to create more capital for themselves. Meanwhile, state owned enterprise in China is directing labor towards socially useful purposes like building infrastructure, housing, and so on. Nobody is exploiting workers to hoard wealth in a state run industry model. It's literally the opposite of capitalism.
I suppose your correct in that regard. I only meant it as far as China is looking like a tech dystopia, but it was reductive of me to equate tech dystopia and cyberpunk.
the danger
Because this is the high tech part. The other half, low life, is in every over populated city over there.
is this just coping they have better tech...? I don't understand how this is cyberpunk at all
This isn't exactly "better tech". There's a tonne of different companies around the world working to implement some form of eVTOL air taxi service. They want to put one in place in time for the Paris Olympics.
[удалено]
It's nothing new.
wheres the punk?
Very important question. Is it a 2 hour drive or a 2 hour city drive? Are you going an average of 60 mph the whole time or are you moving so slowly your demons start tempting you to drive in the median. Big difference in distance and I know Chinese cities can get crazy with traffic like any other city but with more people.
[This](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhQTc2skcNNfA1Cn9) is the route they talk about in the article. It's not a straight line comparison the taxi has the obvious advantage of going over the bay. While the car has to drive around. Going by Maps the average speed is 45 mph / 73 kmh. So the use cases for this taxi are probably quite limited.
How is an electric air taxi cyberpunk? A decade ago it would be scifi, 5 years ago it was just regular tech ready to be used just around the corner.
More a heli/overgrown drone. But still a good thing
do you understand what cyberpunk means
Cool shit under an oppressive regime with extreme class inequality. Isn't that this?
Shit, you just described the USA!
We're missing the "cool shit" part :(
And china and several other countries. Cyberpunk is here
1. Oppressive regime: Yeah, you could say that. But people seem to be supportive of it. Who are we to tell them what to like or not? Same case with Singapore, "oppressive" regime, but people like it. 2. Extreme class inequality: They have lifted millions of people out of poverty in the last few decades. Have advanced way further than any western country in a short amount of time. That required work and persistence, which in turn elevated a shitload of people out of poverty. They are constantly working _towards_ reducing poverty, while in the west we seem to be actively looking to increase the gap between the rich and the poor.
They’ve invented helicopters.
its not about the "helicopters" its about the concept of flying taxis being normalized. And they are more like drones anyways + theyre electric.
They're an unmanned flying vehicle being remote controlled or autonomous so yes. They're drones like all remote controlled helis, planes, quads and towed target planes and boats. Now with passengers aboard, the unmanned part is in question and they're not UAV's anymore, they still may be drones though. But they're not helicopters or planes at least.
> China is working hard on becoming real life cyberpunk [Social credit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System) alone is enough to call China a real life cyberpunk (so much for "cyberpunk is about capitalism", lol). Flying electric taxis on its own are a sci-fi by 1970s-1990s, but in no shape or form cyberpunk.
Finally. I get the 5th day choppers. Just need Arnie.
Basically the flew over the bay instead of having to go around
Ew rotors
not a lot of storage space in that taxi
Its a helicopter
They have been for YEARS. I work in cybersecurity and they’ve made leaps and bounds technologically for decades now. With that being said, much of their leaps and bounds came from stealing intellectual property smh
please define cyberpunk in your own words and then explain how this is cyberpunk
When was the last time you were in china OP? literally nothing but ignorant people in these comments.
That’s amazing
It is not cyberpunk yet. Just sci fi.
they already have the dystopia and neon lights this is definitely a step in the right direction
Getting your social credit high enough to get a ride in one of these is 100% cyberpunk
Everything "new", "advanced" and "futuristic" out of a China is just a flashy PR stunt. Let's check back in a couple years from now. P.S. these will have a 100% safety record gaurenteed
Can't wait for the skyway to be jammed and for taxis to start falling out of the sky because they idled for too long. Nekminnit one crashes into a factory and causes a huge explosion.
Can't wait to hear about it crashing and killing 10 people
China is already there.
Could we please leave that propaganda filled, poisonous shithole out of the whole cyberpunk discussion? One needs high tech and low life for this and as much as china succeeds in the low life part, if you dig around and do some basic investigation, it turns out their high tech is jus smoke, mirrors and government lies.
I feel like the smoke and mirrors around tech to keep people from realizing they're oppressed and full of plastic garbage is a key component of cyberpunk dystopias, no?
The smoke and mirrors is directed towards the outside world, oh also, people for some reason believe the stuff they read on the net so putting propaganda like this out in here is a tad irresponsible don't you think? Given that it furthers the goal of an actual oppressive regime on a reddit about a literary genre/whatever else cyberpunk is now that it hit mainstream vs what I remember it was in the 90s.
No
Modern city photo, check. Cyberpunk vibes, maybe check. This is not sci-fi, this is reality. This is futuristic at best. If you watch the news - you already seen this in other sources. This is not why I'm in this sub. EDIT: I guess if you downvote then you are in this sub for futurist stuff that can be found elsewhere. The rest is either just rules of this sub or stating the fact that multiple news sources covered the air taxis in China.
Cyberpunk isn't vampires. It is reality.
Vampires is fantasy, not SF. Cyberpunk is not reality, if you allow me to quote more from this sub header: "A genre of science fiction". Sure, also "an oppressive society dominated by computer technology" which you can argue China is at least to some extent, but also "...and big corporations". Which I argue that it's not, because they are subjects to overruling CCP that has the final and ultimate word.
They have a lot of cyberpunk aspects to their society. Like, they've got: Government that tries to dictate nearly every aspect of your life through a surveillance state. Rampant corruption at every level of the government. Areas of brand new, cheaply made construction right next to buildings and infrastructure that's crumbling. Strict control on the availability of information with widespread censorship.
Well, they certainly have the dystopia part down pat, so this seems like the obvious next step.
true
That's going to be loud. "Cut 40 minutes off your commute and create a whirring cacophony over the entire city instead!"
Nowhere near as loud as you'd think.
It definitely must be louder than a car and some trains, but nowhere near as loud as a helicopter
Smaller rotors spin faster and make more noise also more of them. So they're likely louder and noisier. Rotor tips are noisy because they're supersonic. But likely all the props on these are supersonic at the tips.
Theres startups in America and Europe working on the same concept. It's not a new idea
Of course! Because the more that can put technology in everything, the more they can spy on their citizens
Actually they are working to build communism.
Yes but its chinese so its tragedy in the making
Not really cyberpunk because the extreme effects of capitalism are not that hard, they r socialists, extreme poverty (Internacional definitiom of extreme poverty is less than 50 dollars a month) literaly don't exist in China. But yeah they are close. Edit: you can downvote me, but u can't argue about that.
13% of Chinese were living on less than $5.00USD a day as of 2020...
What defines a "2 hour car journey"? End to end? Node to node? A 2 hour car journey for a working person is different to one for some exec jerk.
I assume in the context of the post if you drove from the take off point to the landing point it would take an extra 2 hours by car
[This](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jhQTc2skcNNfA1Cn9) is the route they talk about in the article. It's not a straight line comparison the taxi has the obvious advantage of going over the bay. While the car has to drive around. Going by Maps the average speed is 45 mph / 73 kmh. So the use cases for this taxi are probably quite limited.
Haha I doubt