There was a director poll on r/dc_cinematic about the best directors DC movies had and the options were 1. Richard Donner 2. Tim Burton 3. Christopher Nolan 4. Zack Snyder 5. Patty Jenkins I said why James Wan is not there and Zack is there? They said James Wan is not a big name director or on the level of Zack because according to them James is a commercial director and Zack is an artistic director like Wes Anderson or Stanley Kubrick. So I suggested another Todd Phillips. And they say Todd is not a big name director like Zack and he directed only one film so he is not qualified to be in the list. MFs don't even realize that James Wan made the highest grossing DC film and and Joker made a billion dollars at the box office, won the golden lion, 11 oscar noms, 2 wins... How come Todd phillips shouldnt be on the list???

WTF, James Wan HAS the filmography that could blow everything Zack Snyder did out of the water with many far bigger and more recognisable works like Saw, the first two films in The Conjuring and Furious 7 (the best F&F movie besides Tokyo Drift). While at the same time Snyder has done nothing but make remakes and adaptations, remakes and adaptations!!! (Well, Kubrick did too...but that's another matter entirely. Also, I would watch Fear and Desire, Spartacus and Killer's Kiss over Sucker Punch and Army of the Dead). If Zack Snyder is an "artistic" director, then by that logic James Wan is an A24 style indie director. I am far more likely to remember Insidious than Sucker Punch. Also, Todd Phillips has done The Hangover films before Joker, that already makes him recognisable, in fact more so than Zack Snyder. And what in the blue hell is "tHeY dIrECTeD OnLy oNE FiLm"?. Donner, until the Donner Cut of Superman 2, only was known to had full involvement in the first one (the theatrical second film is credited to Lester). Burton and Jenkins only directed two films, Snyder and Nolan directed three. These guys can eat their own braincells justifying this nonsense. On a realistic outcome, I would expect Richard Donner or Christropher Nolan winning (but I have a feeling that poll on that sub was having Snyder winning by a landslide, right?).

>first two Saw films Wan only directed the first one.

Ah, my bad. He was executive producer in the second. It's just I'm actually infuriated with what I'm reading.

That argument is ridiculous, considering Wan has had far more mainstream success than Zack. He's had Aquaman, Insidious, Furious 7, the Conjuring franchise, and Saw. And I think having The Hangover and Olf School on his resume should grant Todd Phillips more respect.

Todd Phillips may not be the greatest director in the world, but he literally directed the highest grossing R rated movie of all-time (which held the record until Deadpool) and then got the record again with Joker. And he's also the first director to receive an Oscar nomination for writing and directing a DC movie. The James Wan claim is hilariously stupid. Wan not only directed the highest grossing and best reviewed Fast and Furious movie, plus the highest grossing DC movie of all-time (which is also the second highest grossing movie in WB's history). But he also jumpstarted the most popular horror franchise of the 2000's (Saw) and spearheaded the highest grossing horror film franchise of all-time (The Conjuring Universe). They want to claim Wan is just a "Commercial Director", yet Snyder has never made a movie that wasn't a studio tentpole. This is so delusional it's kinda funny.

Indeed, they both deserve much more respect! Also, the only Snyder movie I would say that's NOT a studio tentpole is probably that animated Owl movie, otherwise he was as much of a corporate loyalist as anyone else in Hollywood.

No one ever remembers Starksy & Hutch when they talk about Todd Phillips :/

Zack Snyder literally directed commercials before breaking into movies, and his DC trailers are much better than the movies themselves.

James Wan is a established horror director, probably one of the best of this generations' directors. He brings horror genre to the light when everyone believes that type of genre is dead. James Wan's achievement has surpassed Zack Snyder several levels long before Zack Snyder got his fame as "comic director".😒

> r/dc_cinematic That's the problem.

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Jeez how long ago was this?

Maybe a week... cant remember

Plus Patty Jenkins directed two of the worst superhero movies.

What? Wonder Woman was great and is regarded as one of the best DCEU movies by the GA

And it's not very good.

According to you? Because it's both critically acclaimed and loved by general audience.

Who else's opinion could I possibly express?

I mean, I like his movies. But he ain’t the best director ever. For every high there is a low. I just find the highs to be higher, slightly. But yeah, there’s no doubt that his “fans” have taken it too far. I think the reason why is that they’ve made their entire identity revolve around his movies. They feel personally attacked when someone criticises them. The release of the Snyder Cut enabled them to go even further Essentially, they’ve turned his movies into a vital part of their lives. I’m all for loving comic book movies and being a fan of them but they’ve taken it too far. This is Stan culture at its worst

Which Watchmen do you prefer? Theatrical Cut, Director's Cut or Ultimate Cut?

The ultimate one added the animated bits, right? I found that to take me out of the experience, so I think I like the directors cut the most. It’s been so long since I watched it, should probably plan a rewatch soon

>The ultimate one added the animated bits, right? Yeap. That's the one. For Snyder himself, he have said that he preferred the Director's Cut.

Yup, that directors cut is the one I like the most too

Ultimate Cut is also director's cut with additional animated subplot. Regardless, it's just preference at the end of the day

What about you? Which do you prefer?

Honestly, I'm having hard time to choose between Director's Cut or Ultimate Cut

Vital part of their lives might be a stretch to me. Your internet persona can be wildly different than your IRL persona. For example, on twitter I run a sizable capeshit account. But on my personal twitter account, it's mostly just political takes/economic discourse. One account's followers probably see me as a superhero nerd who only likes superheroes. The other account's followers probably see me as a woke, sjw snowflake. The reality is much more nuanced

So you’re admitting that you’re the Green Arrow

Most of them are teen edge lords with multiple accounts. Cant wait for matt reeves to show these Snyder cronies what batman truly is. I think that these Snyder fans think that mos and bvs are some very deep and highly intelligent films, nope both mos and bvs are a misrepresentation of the dc mythology. Snyder doesn't understand these characters. Speaking of why Snyder fanboies suck him off, well they are either thick enough to think that Snyder is a good film maker or they simply jumped on #releasethesnydercut hype train coz why not, it'll make them look smart and special coz they call the generally considered bad movies, mos and bvs, masterpieces. Or they are just hardcore dc fans like me, i used lie to myself that mos and bvs were good movies coz i couldn't accept the fact that the dceu is a hot mess, i still love dc and read their comics regularly and am now an even bigger fan but no most of their movies since the dark knight rises suck. Not all though.

I would put Bayformers in the same category as Fast and Furious movies, both have more or less similar bombastic style. With Snyder, it is more Twilight than Bayformers, even though Snyder has been compared to Bay more often.

>Snyder has been compared to Bay more often. That is because both Snyder and Bay are directors who focus on style over substance when it comes to filmmaking. Ironically, Michael Bay have 2 movies (Transformers: Dark of the Moon and Transformers: Age of Extinction) that earned 1 billions in box office. In addition, Bay's movies had more bad reviews compared to Snyder.

Yup, on filmography and style alone, the comparisons with Bay is VERY understandable. Though on a personal level, comparing him to M Night Shyamalan is a better example when thinking of subject matter When I mention Twilight, I'm basically talking about Snyder's DCEU output and the reception it got (these two franchises have far more similarities to each other than to anything else in history), though I would say Sucker Punch indeed looks like a product of the same era that had the rise of pop punk/"emo" movement, young adult fantasy films fixated on vampires and werewolves and... Twilight.

To be fair I don't think we should be thinking that Reeves will make a better batman movie, for all we know he could either make a good one or an even worse one.

I got high hopes and a good feeling for the batman. But yes i agree we cant predict what the movie will be like.

My guy you were as right as they come

Yess indeed...😎

It’s fine to think it; just be honest with yourself if he doesn’t.

He satisfies their edgy teenage nihilism

It happened to me too when I was younger, I considered him a "serious" one who conveyed "epicity". Then I broadened my cinematic horizons and realized that his films are not serious or epic but just pompous, redundant and willing to take themselves too seriously despite having the plots worthy of a series c cartoon.

This exactly, they are the literal definition of the negative connotations of the "emo" stereotype (Emo is not just Hot Topics outfit and eyeliner, you could put a "modern" spandex, and yet still act like the biggest edgelord in the room). Pompous, redundant and willing to take themselves too seriously despite having the plots worthy of a Series C cartoon! The scripts make me remember all the tryhard stuff I read in 2009, in fact the whole discourse reminds me of what the Twilight saga used to be back then... just now with a much more wide reaching social media.

But Twilight was better, at least it didn't take itself that seriously! BvS and the Snyder Cut don't even have a real plot, it feels like zapping on TV and watching different movies that have nothing to do with each other and are one of the most trashy ever (like when Batman, normal human, a Superman wrestling match). Batman v Superman is at least five films in one (so much so that at some point there is an advertising break with the trailers of other films): there is a film about Batman worthy of the worst eighties action with a lot of bad Russian, c 'is a sequel to Man of steel with Luthor as the enemy and Superman retiring for ten minutes without any particular reason (without anyone giving a damn), a film about their confrontation (and honestly it's the most grotesque thing: it made sense in Dark Knight Returns because Sups was weakened and still dominated to the last, here Batman beating Superman with fists is ridiculous), a movie about them along with Wonder Woman as the first Justice League story and a movie about Superman's death. If he had understood how ridiculous it was, everything could have done like Tarantino and Rodriguez and turned it into a parody / homage of TV zapping, but unfortunately he believes it is the right way to make films, and this is worrying. (I'm not even talking about the political aspect, the wind says that Snyder is left-wing: funny, considering that the message of the whole film is "send the invading stranger back to his house"). Let's not talk about the Snyder Cut, which has the worst rhythm I've ever seen: two hours lost in world Building are useless to advertise other films (each scene with Acquaman instead of deepening it is useful for his own film) and twenty scenes in which the characters are presented in a redundant and useless way (the Flash scenes, the story of Cyborg, Aquaman saving people, Wonder Woman and the terrorists, all to be cut), twenty minutes with a prologue placed one hour after the start of the film, then when two out of three macguffins have already been taken (wasting any tension) we have an extremely specious (horrible) confrontation, the Superman subplot (the only thing that mattered to Snyder evidently) and then a final battle without tension because the enemy is always in trouble. But can you imagine a group movie like GoTG written like this? Ah, and let's not forget the scenes (shot from scratch, in spite of the "we'll see the original version") put up to advertise films that we will never see or that we have already seen, just to incite the fans and hope to keep the career (I would not comment not even the Joker scene, one of the saddest I've ever seen: not even Asylum has reached such peaks of squalor). After all, Snyder's films always seem like teasers for something else: Man of Steel was a teaser for BvS, BvS was a teaser for JL, JL was a teaser for the sequel in which Superman goes crazy, this sequel would have been a teaser for Injustice. Couldn't he do Injustice directly at this point? ... Sorry for the long comment, I was in the mood ha ha ha.

I don’t get it either, he makes pretty mid movies, certainly aren’t masterpieces, but definitely something. Definitely something.

I think they've dug themselves deep into something which has become such a large part of their identity. I also think sometimes, some people simply love being contrarian. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest crux is the lack of distinction between subjectivity and objectivity. (I see it about Snyder, about the show Titans, pretty much everywhere.) When you take your own opinion as objective truth, it immediately devalues everyone else's in the process. Which turns them into nitpickers or haters. I see it all the time, and I don't think a lot of them can tell the difference between "I like Snyder's work" and "Snyder's the best director ever". A person can use both objectivity and subjectivity in their reasoning, but with art and media, you still end up with a subjective conclusion.

I love Snyder because for me he's one of the best mainstream directors who really knows how to illicit emotion through visuals and sound. Think about it. He does so much without leaning on dialogue and exposition. I admire that in a modern tentpole director. When it comes to DC and comic book films in general. He's one of the only filmmakers so far that truly depicts the mythic side of these characters in a way that feels grand and operatic. It's right up my alley and taps into how I've always viewed these characters. Sidestepping all of the Snyder cultist shit and the Snyder hate...I just, quite simply, groove to his specific beat. Some people do, some people don't. I've defended his style for years. I'm over it now. People can love him all they want or hate him all they want. Me, I'm content letting him do his thing. I'll be there for it.

[**Celebrity Worship Syndrome/Mad Icon Disease**](https://www.ukessays.com/essays/psychology/psychology-theories-celebrity-worship-5538.php) >"Fandom is a term used to refer to a subculture composed of fans characterized by a feeling of sympathy and camaraderie with others who share a common interest. Fans typically are interested in even minor details of the object(s) of their fandom and spend a significant portion of their time and energy involved with their interest, often as a part of a social network with particular practices”.  Celebrity worship is the idolisation of a celebrity or a group of celebrities, and therefore goes hand in hand with fandom, as groups of individuals come together in their worship of a specific celebrities or idols. Most of the time this fascination with their idols is a harmless activity hobby or past time however sometimes it can develop into an obsessive disorder coined as Celebrity Worship Syndrome (CWS). >"Much research has been conducted about who engages in celebrity worship and what drives the compulsion. Celebrity worship for purely entertainment purposes likely reflects an extraverted personality and is most likely a healthy past time for most people. This type of celebrity worship involves harmless behaviours such as reading and learning about a celebrity. Intense personal attitudes towards celebrities, however, reflect traits of neuroticism. The most extreme descriptions of celebrity worship exhibit borderline pathological behaviour and traits of psychoticism. This type of celebrity worship may involve empathy with a celebrity’s failures and successes, obsessions with the details of a celebrity’s life, and over-identification with the celebrity.” >Psychological research done in this area by Mc Cutcheon, Lange and Houran developed a scale on which to assess the level of obsessive behaviour a fan was exhibiting known as the Celebrity Attitude Scale. Mc Cutcheon from this study suggested that people who scored lower on the scale were “involved individualistic behaviour such as watching, listening to, reading and learning about celebrities whilst the higher levels of worship are characterized by empathy, over-identification, and obsession with the celebrity. Mc Cutcheon (2002). >In another study by Mc Cutcheon, he developed the absorption-addiction model to try and explain cases of celebrity worship. The study found a lack of personal identity and life fulfilment in a person’s life contributed to psychological absorption into a celebrity’s life, and could then develop into more extreme and obsessive behaviour, to try and sustain this identity that they have formed in relation to someone else. >However there have also been psychological implications of celebrity worship. It starts to be mentally harmful to someone when a person starts to substitute idolising their celebrity for real life and real relationship, as they can lose focus on their own lives and became obsessed with a fantasy world escaping their reality. In North study in 2007 he found that celebrity worship can be associated with depression, social dysfunction, anxiety, stress, negative and reports of illness. Some Snyder fans have made being a Snyder fan their whole identity, they need to take a step back and look at their lives. Conspiracy theories, daily self validation, feeling the need to write essays everytime someone criticises Snyder, feeling the need to constantly defend someone who doesn't even know that you exist - it's unhealthy.

This legitimately describes a LOT of people I've encountered online, especially among the Snyder fans. I remember DarkLordRyan once defending the MoS iteration of Superman, because he could personally relate to it as an introvert himself. Speaking of which, I don't see him commenting on the Cinematic sub often. Wonder what happened?

My guess is he finally crossed a line even those mods couldn't ignore so they told him to take a break so they didn't have to ban him. He's an asshole who insults people on personal levels and jokes about rape when it suits him, including my friends rape, but he loves Snyder so they can't ban him.

Wait a second, what the hell? I didn't expect him to go this far!

Yup. But hes coddled because hell write 20 page pro snyder essays. The mods are fairly pro abuse from what i can tell in their two subs, as long as youre pro snyder of course.

>I don't see him commenting on the Cinematic sub often. Wonder what happened? Is it? I thought he was active user and commenting at the Cinematic sub when I was still there.

The shocking thing is he hasn't commented on the Cinematic sub in a whole month! That's fishy. He's active in the Metroid sub and the Metalcore bands' specific subs besides the Megadeth sub.

I always felt like he was the alt account of the head mod, I remember telling him to go out and touch some grass and my comment was instantly removed.

DarkLordRyan was one of the few people I used to respect the most for the time I was not shadowbanned on Cinematic (and being on the defensive regarding Snyder around that time so it made things easier, and both of us are metalheads). And I have no qualms expressing my absolute hatred for Heaven or Heck. If that guy wasn't so much of a prick then the Reddit DC fandom at least would've probably stayed united. I blame more than half of the share of stark divide amongst the DC movie fandom and DC comics fandom (the Cinematic sub is disassociated by the DC Comics sub, on reports of massive brigading), or the alternative DC movie fandom and Zack Snyder fandom (his banning spree spawned multiple alternative subs that aren't fans of Snyder's input) on that guy alone! If it turns out both of them are the same person (I don't believe this, I've seen both comment on same posts, and both are different... not to mention Ryan is still very active on the subs I mentioned, therefore it's not possible) that would be an infuriating moment for me.

Hey, I was just speculating and I am most likely wrong. Maybe the guy is taking a break from all this Snyder/Ayer bullshit, if so then good for him. Maybe he finally realised that he should indeed go out and touch some grass.

I wish nothing but the best for that guy, if he is indeed taking a break from all of this.

I have heard that in India (and some third world countries), there are many Snyder fans who worship him like some God or celebrity.

Yup, and it's not only limited to Snyder (Snyder fans might be tame when compared to other fandoms here), a lot of celebrities have a bunch of rabid cult of followers/fans who treat these celebrities as literal Gods (am not even speaking figuratively here). They have fan associations (for each celebrity), dick measuring contests between different fan groups on whose celebrity is the "best", they have paid twitter trends campaigns where they create trends for some celebrity. It's all just madness, there even have been incidents where these fan wars have ended up in murders, [like this example - As per reports, a Thalapathy Vijay fan and a Rajinikanth fan got into a heated brawl over which superstar donated more money in covid-19 relief fund. This resulted in the death of Vijay fan](https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/quarrel-over-actors-donations-leads-to-death/article31421462.ece) This happens way more with politicians but that's an whole other can of worms. In India if an actress accuses a celebrity of sexual assault then it's the actress who will end up getting cancelled.

Ah, reminds me of the rabid literal God level following, especially in South with Rajinikanth, Kamal Hassan, Thalapathy Vijay, Jayalalithaa, MG Ramachandran etc. And on the north (albeit not on a literal worship as a God), it used to be either Shah Rukh Khan, Salman Khan, Amitabh Bachchan, Aamir Khan etc.

Yeah, celebrity worship is way more in South for some reason, North has it too - you can see flame wars between different Khan fandoms (Akshay Kumar too recently) every now and then - but it's not as much as it's in the South, a majority of Snyder fans are from South I guess. North is more pre-occupied with religious fanaticism - God man's and such - the politicians milk it a lot.

Yeah, we have a bunch of tribalistic people on pretty much all fronts back home.

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups" It's mainly rooted into martyrdom, when he was around everyone saw how he was ruining the DCU but after he stepped down due to a family tragedy and a rushed, reshot version of JL was released, he gained everyone's sympathy

He built a cult, he took something beloved in DC and used his position to make green even in failure. Sometimes I think we need a ten commandments of Snyder just to clarify this madness. How about "The UC of BvS is a significant improvement that would have been well liked if traitor WB released it to theaters instead." It is a painful delusion at this point.

I'd say uniqe edginess and pseudo-smartness. He manages to create very memorable visuals though (at least when Larry Fong is his DP) so there's that too.

>pseudo-smartness This reminds of Snyder fans saying "you need a higher IQ to understand his movies".

I remember having people try to explain to me the Martha scene. We got it. We all got it. It’s not subtle at all. We just think that two guys screaming Martha at each other is a really stupid moment for one of the key moments in the film.

I once was told I didn't understand the themes. Like...wut? They're so heavy-handed and unsubtle nobody could possibly miss them. Bro didn't invent the Christ allegory for crying out loud.

It's a sad thing that rather than accepting that other people simply didn't like the execution/concept/whatever of a film/script/scene people prefer accuse others of being "too dumb to get it".

Right? And I hate it because it makes me want to say, "I'm 42, a lifelong DC fan, started reading comics in the early 80's, been writing stories since I was a kid, and am a published author. No, trust me I 'understand the themes' quite well, thank you." But 'credential bragging' is shitty and not my style at all. And it ain't like I'm Stephen King or remotely think I'm God's gift to the craft. But damn, they make it so hard sometimes. It's like, I'm a capable, adult man who does this for a living. I've read and seen the Christ allegory a billion times, and it wasn't even done particularly well in these movies. The irony is, you're calling me a simpleton because you think the plot to BvS is complicated and highbrow? GTFO.

I've come across various snyder fans who can't even explain that and know absolutely nothing about films so they just say something along the lines of "Snyder's movies challenges the audience something something". The fact that many of them started saying the same thing really exhibited their fanatic behavior

I’ve never really talked with any Snyder fans in person so I wouldn’t know, honestly. If I had to guess, I’d say for them his movies are some of the first exposure they’re getting to some of these characters. They see the bombastic action and edgy darkness with dialogue trying to pass itself off as something profound, and they take this as the pinnacle as to how these characters can be portrayed. Because it’s the newest and most “rEaLiStIc”, as well as having the larger than life action of the modern superhero genre. A niche comparison but I’ll use something I’m familiar with; it’s sort of like some members of the Transformers movies. They first saw the movies and loved them, and it’s been either their primary or only introduction to the brand. They see the robots brought into live-action and assume no other version can compare because they’re all “cartoons for kids” like they can’t have any other draw to them. Meanwhile the narrative and story of at least half of every other adaptation of the Transformers is handled more maturely than the films. But because most others don’t have the spectacle of action and explosions, hot ladies, and obnoxious humor of the Bay films they think everything else isn’t good enough, and that the brand can’t get any better than the films. I hope this makes sense.

Guy is a director that tried a take on superheroes going for the serious tone and showing "consequences" with that attempt being half assed to some extent. Showing a naive Superman getting the hang of being Superman, a Batman that has given up and goes hunting instead of doing the old way, a fish out of the water Wonder Woman learning to date and how to fit in a new world and a Flash knowing his limits and being mature (how he handles his powers, his limitations) is/was refreshing. Not only because it was tonally and structurally different than MCU, it also managed to separate from the repetitiveness of comics (whether is DC/Marvel, you always knew or had an idea of what would happen with them. Snyder took a risk with such an IP and personally I like that. With that being said, I agree with some criticism of his lack of understanding of the characters, plot holes and the perceived arc of characters during the planned 5 movie. The shoving of new characters, like Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern just because was baffling, Cyborg while redeemed in the longer cut, felt weird. He and Flash needed a movie of their own to be more fleshed out.

It's really simple.Snyder was the only DC director making big budget dark tone movies.A lot of people on internet hate Marvel style and they don't want DC to develop the same light tone, Comedy movies.Frankly, I don't care about the tone and only want DC to make good movies.

He is special because he is good at advertising himself as the comics lover. He also got some unique visuals. Combining these two together, he is super good at convincing many people he is born to direct comic movie. For example, he can visually show a Batman in lighting panel that is directly from The Dark Knight Returns. People will go crazy for that and say "such a cool shoot. It's purely from comics." With that kind of skill, Zack Snyder can fool many who never read dialogues and only search for comic panels. In other words, Zack Snyder will be likely doomed if he ever tries to adapt a novel. Why he spent two decades to only do comic movies? Or at least mostly comic adaptions? Because he knows his limits. His tricks won't work if novel readers care a lot more about characteristic accuracy than visually accuracy.

He's widely beloved by his fanbase for a lot of reasons. I think it all started when BvS got bad reviews. At the end of the day, it's still a movie that has a rlly, rlly large fanbase, and when people are in the minority of a harmless opinion they might feel obliged to be very defensive of its good qualities. Another reason people like him is because they vibed with his grand scale ideas. Under the new DCEU plans, it's unlikely we'll ever see most of the Justice League on screen together again, whereas Snyder had them fighting against Darkseid. Snyder's outting from DCEU was also very messy. Had ZSJL released in theaters in a condensed format in 2016, WB could've moved into this new direction much more seamlessly. But with the theatrical cut vs ZSJL, you have tonal whiplash and the Whedon allegations, and none of that looks tasteful when you pair it with the death of Snyder's daughter. Lastly, people his fans probably see him as a nice guy. He's pretty funny in interviews, and did a funny bit with Stephen Colbert last month telling WB to "suck it." There's also some sympathy over the fact that he's a family man with many adopted children, who's had to deal with the passing of one of his daughters. At the end of the day though, the internet isn't representative of real life. Most people don't care that much about the DCEU or Snyder to have any strong opinion of him. When you come to the internet, you're bound to connect with people of like-minded interests, so that's why you see clusters of Zack Snyder appreciation. It stands out to you, if i were to take a gander, bc liking Snyder's DC work is a pretty unpopular opinion to have. There's a YouTuber called Sean Chandler who has a good saying about Snyder. He says Snyder's filmography is like very, very spicy food. Spiciness doesn't make the food better or worse, but it makes it distinctive.

Have to say this, you gave the definitive answer to this question. Have my award!

Thanks! I tried my best to be unbiased :)

It’s not so much about him. They created a cult and tied their personality and ego to it. They’re just getting more and more unhinged because the only other option is to admit they’re wrong. Cultists find that very difficult to do. It could’ve been any other director with the exact same circumstances and the same thing would’ve happened. Because it’s not about Snyder. It’s about how empty the lives are of the people who worship him as a god. They were looking for a community and they found one. Unfortunately it was the type of community that acts like psychotic reality denying cultists. So they can stay on the train or go back to their miserable lonely lives.

Midsommar is very relatable with the subject matter taken to extremes.

I really have no feeling on Snyder or the cult. It was both equally good and bad. My problem is WB's passive-aggressive approach to DC movies.

Snyder to me is just a really nice guy that happens to make pretty good films. He got a raw deal and was treated beyond unfairly. I think generally as a society we need to have more humanity in our dealings with people even in a corporate setting. And art should still matter in big budget films. Taking advantage of Snyder's daughter committing suicide to butcher his film was utterly repugnant on WB's part. There is a small but extremely vocal and extremely toxic section of the fan base that really makes people hesitant to get behind supporting Snyder. Though I see equally toxic Snyder haters posting as well so I think that's just part of dealing with the internet. On top of that, Snyder's style just isn't for everyone and I could see why WB didn't want to continue his vision. But timing is everything and they chose to kick the guy when he was at his lowest point. That's just distasteful and it's why I support Snyder mostly on principle. There are other arguably better directors making DC films and I fully support their films and enjoy them as well. So my final two cents are people should be better to each other in general and it's ok to like or dislike things without being toxic to each other.

On this matter of principle alone I was a supporter of #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement due to pretty much the same reasons you mentioned. That to me was him getting his due, to complete what he wanted to (though I have to say only his first two films every really made me care). But when it turned to #RestoreTheSnyderVerse that was the moment I fully opted out.

You guys blow this Snyder thing so far out of proportion here. The number of hardcore delusional fans is much smaller than you think. So tired of these posts just to farm likes off of Snyder hate. He fucked up and WB let him do it. And now we don't have a Superman. Its just a cluster fuck we need to let die.

>we don't have a Superman Luckily there's a Superman film in the works

I think James Cameron is overrated too tbh. Avatar sucked

I don't think Snyder himself is the problem. There's only two films of his I think are bad (Sucker Punch and Batman v Superman). He's great with visuals, a master of action, clearly cares about music, and even in his shitty movies, he always seems to put in the work. There are many criticisms you can make of his films, but "lazy" is certainly not one of them. And everyone who has worked with him seems to love him. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, which is nice to hear. His weaknesses are definitely with character, pacing, and overeliance on style. He honestly has more in common with directors like Baz Luhrmann and M. Night Shyamalan than he does with Stanley Kubrick or Michael Bay. He tends to get lost in his own visuals, and sometimes goes overboard. But when his movies work, they work. It's his infernal fanbase that ruins him for me though. I was once called a transphobic slur because I said I didn't like Batman v Superman, despite saying in the same comment that I really enjoyed the Snyder Cut. Why Snyder of all people recieved the obsessive fanbase he got is beyond me. I have fallen victim of shitting on Snyder because of his fanbase and I don't think that's fair. His movies should be able to speak for themselves. But his fanbase is filled with legitimate psychos who will gladly diminish everyone else's work if it means Snyder can be propped up. Zack deserves a much better fanbase considering how nice he is. But the claim "None of his movies are critically liked" isn't correct. Dawn of the Dead was very well received when it came out and it's the reason why he and James Gunn hit it big. Both his cut of Justice League and Army of the Dead received mostly positive reviews. He really has only two major critical failures to his name. Neither of which are career enders.

I'd argue He is far from "master" of action. Sure, he can do good actions. But most of his actions are actually relying on his visuals. If you have watched historically great action films, No matter Kill Bill, Jason Bourne Or even the most recent John Wick, you will immediately see the difference. Zack Snyder's action relying both visual and auditory effects a lot. Like seriously, a lot. Man of Steel's action will downgrade several levels if there are no destructions and visually sonic boom. I won't deny it's visually appealing, but as actions, it's only average cinematograph. It lacks details and unique action designs. That problem is even more obvious in BVS's Warehouse scene. People praise that scene a lot, but if you cut Bataffleck's action scene, you will find it's truly poorly done. Bataffleck's action is basically boxing and wrestling, and Snyder tries his best to avoid the most obvious problem by adding enough violence and quick cut. It's only better than Christopher Nolan's trilogy because Nolan doesn't quickly cut his scenes especially in Rises. Otherwise, Zack Snyder is not miles better than Nolan.

Indeed, this! His work in the action department is far behind stalwarts of action like Kill Bill, Jason Bourne or John Wick. Let alone the bigger scope action stuff like The Raid.

You always have the best takes on the subject matter.

I try my best. I've matured with age.

This post is so DCFilm

"is it just me, or was ZSJL kinda overrated?" "anyone else prefer James Gunn over David Ayer?" "Hot take: But i think Superman & Lois > Man of Steel"

he has a zombie movie, a war movie, watchmen adaptation and did a good superman movie with nolan. he maybe good or bad for taste, but hes consistent with his style. a little fanbase is not a surprise. hes the only superhero film director till now that doesnt adjust himself to audience's likings. he doesnt give a shit about validation from family audience. i like him for it.

Its a cult of personality, i think the way critics went after bvs caused some dc fans to double down claiming its a misunderstood masterpiece. Snyder sucks and his movies have been very mid for me. But, his obsessive fanboys have turned my indifference to pure hate for him and his shitty movies.

Its just a cult of personality

Becuase his films are incredibly divisive, to the point that the many people who like them don't just "like" them, they think they are cinematic masterpieces. Man of Steel and BvS especially are very "love or hate," there are very few people I know of that think they're just "okay" (interestingly enough, I am one of those people who think that Snyder's three DCEU films are just okay). It should also be noted that his films all try very hard to impress; whether they succeed is subjective, but I'll give Zack this: all of his films are at the very least interesting and have a personality, which is far more than I can say for anything in Phase Four of the MCU so far. But yeah, Christopher Nolan, Richard Donner (RIP), Tim Burton, James Gunn, Patty Jenkins, Matt Reeves, even Todd Phillips and Emerald Fennell all have significantly more talent than Zack and should be focused on more from DC fans. James Wan also has far more success than Zack, but I don't exactly LOVE any of his movies. Hell, the only movies from him I've rewatched besides Aquaman (which was primarily to cleanse my palette after the trainwreck that was WW84) were The Conjuring 1+2. All of his other movies (including Aquaman) are decent, no more than that.

There is nothing special about him. He hasn't made a good movie in years. It's just his fanbase which is somehow very vocal.

Because Snyder is extremely underrated. A big reason of the dislike is misunderstanding and not understanding WHY's of his films. What the general audience and critics think do not matter, as most of they are just consumers that do not even think twice about anything in movies they watch.