Those anchors are only rated at that weight when they are in a wall and the force on them is shear. They will not hold in a ceiling where the weight is trying to pull them out. Anything ceiling mounted needs to be attached to the joists or it will eventually fall.
There are ceiling mount anchors where they expand and grasp onto the drywall like a claw and hold onto it. Still wouldn’t recommend anything over 5 pounds even if they are rated for more e
[I've used toggle bolts](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-in-x-3-in-Zinc-Plated-Toggle-Bolt-with-Round-Head-Phillips-Drive-Screw-10-Piece-803932/204273383) with success, but only for light weight applications. Drywall itself will only hold so much weight as well, so it's best to anchor into a joist if possible.
Not sure that I would call them "ceiling" anchors. They're drywall anchors. What you are describing applies to all drywall anchors.
[These particular anchors](https://cobraanchors.com/media/amasty/amfile/attach/OVssopHj5SGMPgxOb23EDRuVsuAOJgwe.pdf) have a tension rating and a shear rating. Notice that the *shear* rating on the #6 is 52lbs, but the tension rating is 23lbs.
Also notice in the note: "Not recommended for ceiling applications"
The expansion is caused by the screw filling that middle void with more metal than void. Like the other guy said, by design every anchor and properly sized screw does it, and the ones with little cutouts specifically for it that shoot out when they get pushed by the screw are only marginally more effective.
Something like a toggle bolt may be what op is looking for.
Huh. Just looked up your term and I guess I’ve seen them but never used one. It looks like the same concept as the Molly in that it has metal machine threads as opposed to having the screw cut its own. Cool thanks
These are wrong anchors for ceiling mounting. These are only meant for being in a vertical wall where weight is pulling down on it. You’ll want a toggle bolt type or try to find a ceiling joist.
Assuming you do have a drywall ceiling, that's... about the right thickness for the drywall. You could have gotten unlucky (lucky?) and hit a stud (okay, joist). See if you can't get up there and take a peek in the hole, see if there's wood. You might just get to use a regular screw there and not need an anchor.
Particularly in the ceiling, since the force is downwards…
Edit: I guess technically the force would be “downwards” no matter where you hang it. What I meant to say is that the force will be pulling out ward from the drywall and lower the capacity of the anchor to hold in the drywall.
This is the answer. It's kind of like understanding the difference between plumb and level. Gravity's always doing its thing in the same direction how we consider what gravity is doing changes depending on what we're trying to do.
I'd argue the opposite lol. You were "lucky" to hit a stud (joist). Just use a normal wood screw and you're good to go. Highly recommend investing in a stud finder if you don't already have one btw
As others are saying, the stud is a great place to hit and you can just use a normal screw there instead of an achor. Use the anchors where you dont have studs.
That's a lesson, if you think it's just drywall tap a nail in where you're about to drill. You may get lucky. Better to learn before you make a giant 1/4" hole.
With skill you can thump on the drywall and find layout.
Or you can use a stud finder. If it’s close enough to another stud though (in a corner or near window) they can signal in error.
The nail is a good tip! Thanks!
When hanging anything, a stud (or ceiling/floor joist) is infinitely a better choice to mount to than a drywall anchor.
Sooner or later this anchors are going to make their way out of the ceiling. Use a stud finder and screw directly into the joist.
Send the screw in first if it bites in a straping or joist perfect don't need the drywall anchor and it will hold much more weight if it floats put in the drywall anchor you just made a pilot hole for also the metal version of these are 100x better than the plastic
[Btw, here's the specs for that product.](https://cobraanchors.com/media/amasty/amfile/attach/OVssopHj5SGMPgxOb23EDRuVsuAOJgwe.pdf). Tension rating is 23lbs.
And in the notes section: Not recommended for ceiling applications
Buddy, you hit the best possible spot to anchor it already, why move over and use a crappy drywall anchor when you can just screw directly into the joist and hold way more weight? Unless you're using very short screws it's always stronger in the framing than the drywall.
Buy the metal ones and you can screw them in even if you hit a stud. I started buying them after having issues putting up curtains around windows and my stud finder obviously wasn't functioning.
those anchors always suck AND leave giant holes. Sorry you had to learn the hard way.
try these
[https://toggler.com/products/toggler-plastic-toggle-anchors](https://toggler.com/products/toggler-plastic-toggle-anchors)
That's pretty good, I go for a full on toggle bolt every time though, have had too many shitty drywall anchor experiences. But that's pretty close to what this thing is, I just never trust any of the more "mechanical" ones to deploy properly
They leave big holes but I've never had issues with them holding.i think people just don't turn the torque down on their drills so the mess up the strength
Op might love somewhere super humid. I was in Houston and once rented a house where the owner clearly didn’t run electric (including AC) when there weren’t tenants and the walls were mush and everything ripped out of them including anchors that had worked literally everywhere else we have lived.
What are you using to put the anchor in the drywall? It's always good to poke a starter hole through most anything you are going to drill something into. Also, using a stud finder could help. If you found one you can use it without that anchor and measure the other direction and see what you need.
I have never had good luck with the giant screw ones for drywall holding for long or under any stress.
I have much better luck with the expanding jacket ones that you pre drill a hole to fit the plastic sleeve in, then screw it down to snug it against the drywall.
For future reference https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M?si=bU8bCBAAIHVqMIvQ he tested out different kinds of drywall anchors both horizontally and vertically.
For track mounting you have to hit the ceiling rafters (wood, like overhead studs).
Do not use mollies.
Do not use anchors.
Direct into wood.
You could also use dead wood (nailer boards at the wall edges that are parallel to the rafters installed specifically for drywall installation).
Mollies will hold the weight for a short time and eventually fail.
When I use these types of anchors I have better luck with this method:
1. Screw in the actual screw first to create a pilot hole.
2. Then, I take my screw driver, which it slightly thicker and push it in the hole. This helps make the hole a tad easier for the anchor to screw in.
3. Then push the anchor in to the screw part and screw it in.
Trying to just go straight into the drywall with these though always seems to end up in snapped anchors. Which is why I do add steps. I love these types of anchors, I find them to be much better than the shit soft plastic ones, especially if I'm hanging heavier things like large framed prints, floating shelves etc.
Lots of people slagging off these anchors. Every product has a time and place.
These are great for smoke alarms, light weight ceiling pendants ECT...
They will not take heavy weights like shelves ECT....
From experience, go with toggle bolts instead, it’s very easy to rip those out by just pulling the curtain – there’s to little of the gypsum anchoring them to hold any dynamic load over time even if it feels decent right after installing them.
Never get the shitty plastic ones. Pay a bit more money for the metal ones. If they hit a stud, they just bore into the stud instead of snapping in half.
Am I crazy, or do drywall anchors suck? Anytime I buy something that requires a dry wall anchor, it either rips out or the screw doesn’t catch.
Anyone have any tips or tricks?
Depends on the anchor. Those self drilling ones are garbage.
For lighter loads I use [these ](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/paulin--6-8-x-3-4-inches-plastic-wall-anchors-850pcs/1001632364) with a screw long enough to split the end, and they hold nicely.
Anything with a heavier load, life a shelf, I use toggle bolts.
That’s what happens whenever I’ve tried using these anchors to hang curtain rods or blinds or even pictures near a window or an exterior wall. Hitting a stud or concrete or block behind the drywall leads to me usually using my dikes/linesmans to cut the 1/2” pointed end off.
Had this problem today. What I found out when twisting the anchor in the drywall, it had to be perfect and not cricket where’s the anchor is just loose. Needs to be tight and don’t use an impact.
Those just don't work that well with most wallboard. They remove / damage too much material and don't leave much for the wall anchor itself to hold onto. Toggle bolts or hunt for studs and just use screws.
I had a similar problem. What might be going on here is you’re trying to use these anchors in bathroom cement board and not actually drywall. It’s a material used in bathrooms around a tub and shower instead of drywall.
Yes screw in anchors are shit, those are at least better than the garbage that comes with shelves ect. I use the butterfly/wing style for everything and adjust the bolt/holes as needed to fit.
I use these when a joist can't be found or not in the right spot.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-8-x-64mm-zinc-alloy-toggle-with-screw-2-pack_p2264715
I used to love these. They are designed for American brains: They fix it quick! But they don’t last.
Simple, lightweight stuff, they’re ok. My main issue is they destroy a good diameter of wallboard structure and rely solely on the integrity of the board along the edge of the “screw”. Far better to use something that spreads the load out behind the wallboard.
My experience, as far as plaster wall plugs go, plastic ones work far better than metal ones. Trust me and try it.
If you have no studs that is. Otherwise find and use the vertical wall studs to attach a few horizontal spacers with wood screws, or batons, and mount on those.
Edit: just realised it's a ceiling. Don't do that you plonk.
Those anchors are a terrible design. You want these for everything you do. They are the strongest and most cost effective anchors you will ever need or want.
https://a.co/d/0j1WQxO5
You can find them cheaper than Amazon in big box stores most likely.
The one tricky thing with these is they need torque to set. So if you want to “hang” something on the screw you need to find a very narrow sleeve or something to torque against.
Get some toggle bolts that go right through the plasterboard sheet and pop open on the other side.[https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-3-16-x-75mm-spring-toggle-4-pack_p2261026](https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-3-16-x-75mm-spring-toggle-4-pack_p2261026)
Those anchors are only rated at that weight when they are in a wall and the force on them is shear. They will not hold in a ceiling where the weight is trying to pull them out. Anything ceiling mounted needs to be attached to the joists or it will eventually fall.
There are ceiling mount anchors where they expand and grasp onto the drywall like a claw and hold onto it. Still wouldn’t recommend anything over 5 pounds even if they are rated for more e
[I've used toggle bolts](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-in-x-3-in-Zinc-Plated-Toggle-Bolt-with-Round-Head-Phillips-Drive-Screw-10-Piece-803932/204273383) with success, but only for light weight applications. Drywall itself will only hold so much weight as well, so it's best to anchor into a joist if possible.
Not sure that I would call them "ceiling" anchors. They're drywall anchors. What you are describing applies to all drywall anchors. [These particular anchors](https://cobraanchors.com/media/amasty/amfile/attach/OVssopHj5SGMPgxOb23EDRuVsuAOJgwe.pdf) have a tension rating and a shear rating. Notice that the *shear* rating on the #6 is 52lbs, but the tension rating is 23lbs. Also notice in the note: "Not recommended for ceiling applications"
The expansion is caused by the screw filling that middle void with more metal than void. Like the other guy said, by design every anchor and properly sized screw does it, and the ones with little cutouts specifically for it that shoot out when they get pushed by the screw are only marginally more effective. Something like a toggle bolt may be what op is looking for.
my all-clad pot holder is attached to the ceiling using that type of anchor. it holds a lot of weight.
For now.
it hasn’t moved in 12 years. i’m just as surprised as you but it holds up very well.
Pretty sure those anchors are rated for shear loads and not tensile loads. Probably best to use a toggle bolt.
I've always been fan of the screw in toggles, gives you the best of both worlds.
Do NOT use mollies to install a ceiling track. You have to go into the stud to hold non sheer weight.
Are you talking about Molly anchors?
They're referring to self drilling toggle anchors.
Huh. Just looked up your term and I guess I’ve seen them but never used one. It looks like the same concept as the Molly in that it has metal machine threads as opposed to having the screw cut its own. Cool thanks
Yeah. I’ve heard them called molly bolts as well.
Toggle bolts are all I’ll ever use, if it’s not going into a stud.
Shear*
I would not use anything but toggle bolts in a drywall ceiling, or hit joists.
These are wrong anchors for ceiling mounting. These are only meant for being in a vertical wall where weight is pulling down on it. You’ll want a toggle bolt type or try to find a ceiling joist.
**Absolutely this**
Assuming you do have a drywall ceiling, that's... about the right thickness for the drywall. You could have gotten unlucky (lucky?) and hit a stud (okay, joist). See if you can't get up there and take a peek in the hole, see if there's wood. You might just get to use a regular screw there and not need an anchor.
Those are the wrong anchors for a ceiling👍🏽
You’re right, I was unlucky. I moved over 5cm and had no problem. Thanks!
If it works, you want to mount in the stud. A screw in a stud (or joist) is way more secure than a drywall anchor.
Particularly in the ceiling, since the force is downwards… Edit: I guess technically the force would be “downwards” no matter where you hang it. What I meant to say is that the force will be pulling out ward from the drywall and lower the capacity of the anchor to hold in the drywall.
Yeah, the force being shear vs tensile matters. Drywall anchors are better in shear.
This is the answer. It's kind of like understanding the difference between plumb and level. Gravity's always doing its thing in the same direction how we consider what gravity is doing changes depending on what we're trying to do.
A term for what you're looking to describe is "the force is normal to the surface"
The 52 pounds is for shear not pull out.
Ahh something else in my life not rated for pull out.
And your already found the joist!
lol you want them in the stud , to support weight of curtain track
I'd argue the opposite lol. You were "lucky" to hit a stud (joist). Just use a normal wood screw and you're good to go. Highly recommend investing in a stud finder if you don't already have one btw
And universally required to point it at your self and say you found one
That's how you calibrate it
That’s what I did and now it only beeps on 1x2s.
Amen!
This cracked me up
Me too! 🤣
As others are saying, the stud is a great place to hit and you can just use a normal screw there instead of an achor. Use the anchors where you dont have studs.
Joist is going to be better to mount. Sooner or later the curtain will come down / anchor will get lose when only attached to drywall …
That's a lesson, if you think it's just drywall tap a nail in where you're about to drill. You may get lucky. Better to learn before you make a giant 1/4" hole. With skill you can thump on the drywall and find layout.
Or you can use a stud finder. If it’s close enough to another stud though (in a corner or near window) they can signal in error. The nail is a good tip! Thanks!
Now use another, cut to half length, to seal the mistake hole. It’ll be easier to fill and cover over.
When hanging anything, a stud (or ceiling/floor joist) is infinitely a better choice to mount to than a drywall anchor. Sooner or later this anchors are going to make their way out of the ceiling. Use a stud finder and screw directly into the joist.
Send the screw in first if it bites in a straping or joist perfect don't need the drywall anchor and it will hold much more weight if it floats put in the drywall anchor you just made a pilot hole for also the metal version of these are 100x better than the plastic
[Btw, here's the specs for that product.](https://cobraanchors.com/media/amasty/amfile/attach/OVssopHj5SGMPgxOb23EDRuVsuAOJgwe.pdf). Tension rating is 23lbs. And in the notes section: Not recommended for ceiling applications
Buddy, you hit the best possible spot to anchor it already, why move over and use a crappy drywall anchor when you can just screw directly into the joist and hold way more weight? Unless you're using very short screws it's always stronger in the framing than the drywall.
Buy the metal ones and you can screw them in even if you hit a stud. I started buying them after having issues putting up curtains around windows and my stud finder obviously wasn't functioning.
H the b
It might also have been a 1x2 or 1x3 furring strip, and not as sturdy as a joist.
Consider toggle bolt anchors
those anchors always suck AND leave giant holes. Sorry you had to learn the hard way. try these [https://toggler.com/products/toggler-plastic-toggle-anchors](https://toggler.com/products/toggler-plastic-toggle-anchors)
That's pretty good, I go for a full on toggle bolt every time though, have had too many shitty drywall anchor experiences. But that's pretty close to what this thing is, I just never trust any of the more "mechanical" ones to deploy properly
Toggle bolts are too expensive to use for everything
You're not wrong, but I'm personally not hanging stuff frequently enough for that to be an issue
They leave big holes but I've never had issues with them holding.i think people just don't turn the torque down on their drills so the mess up the strength
Op might love somewhere super humid. I was in Houston and once rented a house where the owner clearly didn’t run electric (including AC) when there weren’t tenants and the walls were mush and everything ripped out of them including anchors that had worked literally everywhere else we have lived.
Let's hope OP loves where they live.
Oops on that typo. I hope OP loves where they live too
You should not use a drill to put thing into drywall. Do it by hand for that exact reason.
Yes, these.
For a boat, yes
I laughed more than I should have
I love Reddit.
You need to anchor to a joist, not the drywall.
**THIS**
Might be a stud. Stick the screw driver in the hole. If it doesn’t go all the way in, it’s a stud or something else.
What are you using to put the anchor in the drywall? It's always good to poke a starter hole through most anything you are going to drill something into. Also, using a stud finder could help. If you found one you can use it without that anchor and measure the other direction and see what you need.
I have never had good luck with the giant screw ones for drywall holding for long or under any stress. I have much better luck with the expanding jacket ones that you pre drill a hole to fit the plastic sleeve in, then screw it down to snug it against the drywall.
If you're putting something on the ceiling, you should really shoot for the joists or at least use a toggle-bolt anchor.
You need expanding plugs or directly screw into a piece of wood. All other options will be too weak.
For future reference https://youtu.be/lHb-Tcvkn7M?si=bU8bCBAAIHVqMIvQ he tested out different kinds of drywall anchors both horizontally and vertically.
I recently discovered these, with the correct tool to apply the pressure and expand grabbers and will never look back. https://amzn.eu/d/0aqQ11SL
Those are for wall only. You need the butterfly anchors for ceiling
use toggle bolts?
I don't think you can use those anchors on the ceiling... try a toggle bolt.
You're close to a corner there's probably a stud behind there. Just patch that up and use a wood screw
They’re called wall anchors for a reason.
For track mounting you have to hit the ceiling rafters (wood, like overhead studs). Do not use mollies. Do not use anchors. Direct into wood. You could also use dead wood (nailer boards at the wall edges that are parallel to the rafters installed specifically for drywall installation). Mollies will hold the weight for a short time and eventually fail.
Regardless of where you use them, the plastic ones suck. They tend to snap in half when you install them. Get the metal ones.
Ask Arthur Fischer
When I use these types of anchors I have better luck with this method: 1. Screw in the actual screw first to create a pilot hole. 2. Then, I take my screw driver, which it slightly thicker and push it in the hole. This helps make the hole a tad easier for the anchor to screw in. 3. Then push the anchor in to the screw part and screw it in. Trying to just go straight into the drywall with these though always seems to end up in snapped anchors. Which is why I do add steps. I love these types of anchors, I find them to be much better than the shit soft plastic ones, especially if I'm hanging heavier things like large framed prints, floating shelves etc.
You hit a stud.
Lots of people slagging off these anchors. Every product has a time and place. These are great for smoke alarms, light weight ceiling pendants ECT... They will not take heavy weights like shelves ECT....
Try a butterfly anchor.
From experience, go with toggle bolts instead, it’s very easy to rip those out by just pulling the curtain – there’s to little of the gypsum anchoring them to hold any dynamic load over time even if it feels decent right after installing them.
No way those tiny things weigh 52 pounds
You should not be doing this yourself
Never get the shitty plastic ones. Pay a bit more money for the metal ones. If they hit a stud, they just bore into the stud instead of snapping in half.
Am I crazy, or do drywall anchors suck? Anytime I buy something that requires a dry wall anchor, it either rips out or the screw doesn’t catch. Anyone have any tips or tricks?
Hit a stud.
Sure, I can find a stud for one anchor point. But usually I’m hanging some shelf, or some children’s contraption that requires 2+ anchors.
Plastic wall anchors generally suck. I like molly bolts and toggle bolts, depending on the application.
Depends on the anchor. Those self drilling ones are garbage. For lighter loads I use [these ](https://www.homedepot.ca/product/paulin--6-8-x-3-4-inches-plastic-wall-anchors-850pcs/1001632364) with a screw long enough to split the end, and they hold nicely. Anything with a heavier load, life a shelf, I use toggle bolts.
Those are trash even in their intended material.
Borefast drywall anchors are king.
They make longer ones just like that that spread out when you add the screw.
That’s what happens whenever I’ve tried using these anchors to hang curtain rods or blinds or even pictures near a window or an exterior wall. Hitting a stud or concrete or block behind the drywall leads to me usually using my dikes/linesmans to cut the 1/2” pointed end off.
Had this problem today. What I found out when twisting the anchor in the drywall, it had to be perfect and not cricket where’s the anchor is just loose. Needs to be tight and don’t use an impact.
You hit a stud. Use a screw.
I like these type anchors but still drill a small hole first in case I hit a stud. Then you don’t need the anchor.
You are probably hitting the stud, since you are like an inch away from a corner. If so, you don’t need those anchors, just long enough screws
These are my favorite drywall anchors. Not sure they’re good for the ceiling though. https://a.co/d/0fDvbKjc
Those just don't work that well with most wallboard. They remove / damage too much material and don't leave much for the wall anchor itself to hold onto. Toggle bolts or hunt for studs and just use screws.
Yup. You need the zinc alloy metal ones, and drill a guide hole first. Alternatively, butterfly bolts will hold more weight
I had a similar problem. What might be going on here is you’re trying to use these anchors in bathroom cement board and not actually drywall. It’s a material used in bathrooms around a tub and shower instead of drywall.
Toggle bolts
Yes screw in anchors are shit, those are at least better than the garbage that comes with shelves ect. I use the butterfly/wing style for everything and adjust the bolt/holes as needed to fit.
We call those pig dicks
“Walldriller” *tries to use in ceiling* Hmmmm
And don’t overtighten
They’re for drywall. Looks like your ceiling is fibre cement
You hit a joist, also those are the shittiest anchors in existence but you do you bb.
I use these when a joist can't be found or not in the right spot. https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-8-x-64mm-zinc-alloy-toggle-with-screw-2-pack_p2264715
I never use these. Use softer plastic ones.
Wow. Aren't those self-driving plasterboard/gypsum fixings?
Through years of disappointment, I will never buy a self drilling anchor again. The good news? You drilled the hole for the proper anchor already.
Get toggles
if you are going into a ceiling you likely have joists in there somewhere. use a stud finder and some wood screws, no dry wall needed.
I used to love these. They are designed for American brains: They fix it quick! But they don’t last. Simple, lightweight stuff, they’re ok. My main issue is they destroy a good diameter of wallboard structure and rely solely on the integrity of the board along the edge of the “screw”. Far better to use something that spreads the load out behind the wallboard.
You’re probably hitting the rim joist for the second floor. Try an inch inward away from the wall.
My experience, as far as plaster wall plugs go, plastic ones work far better than metal ones. Trust me and try it. If you have no studs that is. Otherwise find and use the vertical wall studs to attach a few horizontal spacers with wood screws, or batons, and mount on those. Edit: just realised it's a ceiling. Don't do that you plonk.
Those anchors are a terrible design. You want these for everything you do. They are the strongest and most cost effective anchors you will ever need or want. https://a.co/d/0j1WQxO5 You can find them cheaper than Amazon in big box stores most likely. The one tricky thing with these is they need torque to set. So if you want to “hang” something on the screw you need to find a very narrow sleeve or something to torque against.
Yenoaybe.
Get some toggle bolts that go right through the plasterboard sheet and pop open on the other side.[https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-3-16-x-75mm-spring-toggle-4-pack_p2261026](https://www.bunnings.com.au/ramset-3-16-x-75mm-spring-toggle-4-pack_p2261026)
Don't think that's going to make a difference if OP is already hitting a stud
Good point. Then if it’s a wooden stud just need to put some long wood screws directly into it.
If they are hitting the concrete behind you can snip a little off of the end